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Yeheshuah


Yeheshuah
(@yeheshuah)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 92
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Grace and peace, sisters and brothers.  It is good to be here.  I have been a part of the OTO since 2001, but, amazingly, did not start serious thelemic study or practice until a few years ago. 

Yeheshuah

Love is the law, love under will.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6475
 

Welcome aboard!


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jamie barter
(@jamie-barter)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1688
 
"Yeheshuah" wrote:
Grace and peace, sisters and brothers.  It is good to be here.

“We accept you, we accept you, one of us, one of us!”

"Yeheshuah" wrote:
I have been a part of the OTO since 2001,

I won’t ask “which O.T.O.?” as you're a "newie" and these days it's fairly apparent which org claims to be the One True Only! 
But Greetings and well come anyway, Yeheshuah.  (You are welcome!)

"Yeheshuah" wrote:
but, amazingly, did not start serious thelemic study or practice until a few years ago.

Would I understand you correctly, that you may have taken the Minerval etc. before starting thelemic study or practice? That is after all the actual intention of the 0[sup:axcptce3]o[/sup:axcptce3], during the course of which one is supposedly first presented with Liber AL, the Volume of the Sacred Law.  However, very very few people allege to have undergone initiation under that premise (in fact I have only ever encountered one, and don’t undoubtedly know if they were speaking the truth or not) …

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Tao
 Tao
(@tao)
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Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 316
 
"Yeheshuah" wrote:
I have been a part of the OTO since 2001, but, amazingly, did not start serious thelemic study or practice until a few years ago.

"Amazingly" is a very good descriptor there as this does indeed amaze me. My interaction with members of OTO to this point has left me with the distinct impression that, since Crowley took over as head of the order back in the day, Thelemic study and practice was the backbone of the institution. If it's not asking you to break any vows or oaths, could you elaborate on what drew you to the OTO if not Thelema and what kept you occupied as a member up until a few years ago?

This non-Thelemite with interest in the 93 current would be most interested in anything you might provide.

cheers,
Tao


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Yeheshuah
(@yeheshuah)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 92
Topic starter  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law!

Tao and Jamie,

Thanks so much for the reception.  I did indeed do my Minerval before I took up serious thelemic study and practice.  You could say my soul was drawn to the OTO with the force of gravity.  Crowley's work was familiar to me, but I just didn't put in any time grappling with his material. 

So what occupied me as a Minerval for more than a decade? Experience.  I finished up graduate work in philosophy and international affairs.  Then I was drawn to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and lost myself in the military for quite a while. 

The wandering did me some good.  I let every experience flourish in me, weed or grain, making no distinctions where possible.  Beyond the abyss everything is reconciled.

Y

Love is the law, love under will.


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jamie barter
(@jamie-barter)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1688
 

This sounds some worthwhile activity.

Just to be clear, I take it we are talking about the Caliphornian or Caliphate recension here?  Some of Motta’s Society O.T.O. still like to refer to themselves as the O.T.O. as well, out of sheer hopefulness perhaps, though Motta never did take it (the mantle piece) on himself, to his credit.

You say you were a Minerval for more than a decade - that, too, is very unusual: the normal ‘official’ period before the candidate advances to the threshold of commitment which is the I[sup:1r4bpvfy]o[/sup:1r4bpvfy] is meant to be a symbolic nine months.  If not during this time, nearly all Minervals either advance within a couple of years or else drift away, never to undergo their First degree.  Still to be a member and pay dues for a whole decade while not wishing to take any advancement is very much the exception rather than rule.  It also raises the further query as to whether you still remain a member, or advanced any further along, and if not why not (which of course you don’t have to answer Yeheshuah, it not really being any of my bizney & all that – still, we are all curious creatures…! ;D)

N Joy


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Yeheshuah
(@yeheshuah)
Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 92
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law!

Jamie,

We are talking about the Caliphate, as you guessed.  To be honest, I have not looked all that deeply at the differences/similarities between the various OTOs.  As far as I can discern, the Caliphate has the most legitimate legal claim to be the official successor of Crowley's OTO.  I am sure that this is a very contentious area of debate about which I am woefully uneducated, so I will try to not step into it too deeply.

I am a dues paying member of the OTO and have progressed, though only just barely.  Where I live there are no OTO groups, so I have to travel 7 hours to attend Mass or an initiation.  That slows things down a bit for me.  As for a desire for degree progress, I do desire to move onward and upward, I admit, but I find there is so much to take in that I am in little rush.  (Also, I came across a private library full of things such as King's The Secret Rituals, which satisfies me to no end.... and helps to keep up the feeling of attainment.  I do keep my curiosity in check by avoiding study of rituals I have not myself undergone as yet, but when it comes to the teachings I just can't help myself!)

Y

Love is the law, love under will.


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jamie barter
(@jamie-barter)
Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1688
 

Thanks for giving a considerate answer, Y.

"Yeheshuah" wrote:
We are talking about the Caliphate, as you guessed.  To be honest, I have not looked all that deeply at the differences/similarities between the various OTOs.  As far as I can discern, the Caliphate has the most legitimate legal claim to be the official successor of Crowley's OTO.  I am sure that this is a very contentious area of debate about which I am woefully uneducated, so I will try to not step into it too deeply.

If you’re interested you might find a couple of Blogs under the Blog section I have put together which go into the recent (post-Germer) history in some detail.  Factually they are very accurate (as far as I can determine, but would be grateful to be advised of any errors) and opinion and interprertation is hopefully impartial, with the possible exception of the "Caliphornian"/ “Caliphate” O.T.O.  where I have attempted to redress the balance and offset their own partial publicity etc.

"Yeheshuah" wrote:
I am a dues paying member of the OTO and have progressed, though only just barely.

By having ‘progressed’, I imagine you mean within the man of Earth triad, as you have to be “invited” to ascend the pyramid further, which amongst other things entails not daring to complain or question the status quo about the current way of doing things vis-à-vis legal actions; the length of time to bring things out; whether your personality happens to be in alignment with the political ethos, etc, etc.

"Yeheshuah" wrote:
Where I live there are no OTO groups, so I have to travel 7 hours to attend Mass or an initiation.  That slows things down a bit for me.

But this does show a fair 'degree' of commitment!

"Yeheshuah" wrote:
As for a desire for degree progress, I do desire to move onward and upward, I admit, but I find there is so much to take in that I am in little rush.  (Also, I came across a private library full of things such as King's The Secret Rituals, which satisfies me to no end.... and helps to keep up the feeling of attainment.  I do keep my curiosity in check by avoiding study of rituals I have not myself undergone as yet, but when it comes to the teachings I just can't help myself!)

The Caliphate have altered the rituals so that they are not exactly the same as in King’s version (which is itself less removed from & nearer to A.C.’s original) - although not unrecognisably so, so you would still be able to identify them from the ones in King’s text (unlike S.O.T.O.’s rituals, which are now completely different.  And actually “secret” so far, inasmuch as [to my knowledge] nobody has ever put them on the internet or otherwise publicised them.)

One significant change is that the oath of allegiance as written by Crowley is now sworn to Hymenaeus Beta, rather than to Baphomet as the Head of the Order.

I don’t think very many IX[sup:35dohcbf]o[/sup:35dohcbf]s have been created under the new (Beta) administration, but I have not heard lately and by this time I may be mistaken and there are scores.  But I don’t think so!  Even if you were in line for it though, you would still have a very long long wait to get the teachings from the caliphate, so I don’t think you would be disadvantaged for reading them “in advance”!  The only differences between King’s versions and the ones the C.O.T.O. uses would be cosmetic ones.  Also, despite the impression that they like to give out, the C.O.T.O. don’t have any sort of an exclusive monopoly of transmission in being able to initiate anybody using them. 

With regards
N Joy


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