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macYiKing


 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
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I've just been to the downloads space to get myself MacYiKing. Unfortunately the link to jorjun.org.uk is broken.
Does anyone have a copy lying around they could let me have?

I have an enormous number of Excel spreadsheets of i-ching statistics which was my life's work for a few months, but remain in a very user-unfriendly format (much like myself). Anyone who would like to have a look at my stuff is more than welcome. I will try to talk you through it.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Greetings!

I've just uploaded a copy in .dmg format: http://www.duanemoore.info/files/MacYiKing.dmg

I don't know if this came with any documentation as I don't have the original file, but it *should* work ok.

You do know this will only work on a Mac, don't you? You mention Excel which is primarily a Windoze application.

Let me know how you get on.

Duane


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

Yes, I am aware of all that. I've recently switched back to the sane mac world and I'm getting some work done for a change instead of just watching Bill Gates send error reports to himself.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4132
 

I've just downloaded the MacYiKing. Looks fascinating. Could either of you, or anyone else, give me a quick rundown of how to use it?

πŸ™‚


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

I'm just going to bed with my Waldheim, my sticks and my computer to investigate this thing. I'll give you a shout later when I have stumbled around inside it...

Actually, it only took two minutes to suss it. The top slider choses the upper trigram and the lower choses the lower trigram. Its a nice piece of kit but basically it's Crowley's i-ching in an easier format to look up than a book. It doesn't seem to 'do' anything, but then that's no criticism, because neither do I.

I wasn't aware of the existence of a Crowley version until earlier in the day...

Do you know how to cast the i-ching? Do you need a basic lesson ?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Thanks, I also downloaded MacYiKing for my iBook.

"Thelemaway" wrote:
Actually, it only took two minutes to suss it. The top slider choses the upper trigram and the lower choses the lower trigram. Its a nice piece of kit but basically it's Crowley's i-ching in an easier format to look up than a book. It doesn't seem to 'do' anything, but then that's no criticism, because neither do I.

I think that instead of using the slider, a much handier way to get the right hexagram is to click the lines directly (doing so will switch the line to its opposite).


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

"Do you know how to cast the i-ching? Do you need a basic lesson?

Yes I do. Fred in all his glory just alerted me that * help is not available for the macYiKing* πŸ˜† And while we are on the subject of fellow mac users and help, could someone please explain in mac lingo how the heck to use the quote thingy? I have an ibook and have highlighted and used quote selected and every other option available only to have it quote an entire message and then not actually posting any of it, and me having to resort to copy and paste quotes, aaargh!
Q


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5330
 

Do you mean Quoting posts on Forums? If so, it doesn't matter which platform you're using. At the bottom right of each post you'll see a button labelled "Quote". Just use that instead of "Post Reply".

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Questforknowledge" wrote:
Do you know how to cast the i-ching? Do you need a basic lesson?

Yes I do. Fred in all his glory just alerted me that * help is not available for the macYiKing* πŸ˜†

I assume you mean you need a basic lesson. I'm not any kind of an expert on I Ching and I'm sure Thelemaway can give a lot better instruction. In any case, I've been just using coins. Think of the question perhaps in a similar way you'd do with Tarot. Take six coins and throw them on table or some other surface. The coins then represent the hexagram for you: the lowest coin is the lowest or first line of the hexagram, etc. Heads means a yang or unbroken line and tails means yin or broken line.

At this point you can use MacYiKing and see what this hexagram means. You could check the same thing from a book, it's just that it may be faster or more convenient with MacYiKing.

The divination method I use is actually a bit more complex than that. I use "changing lines" with which the hexagram will also change to another hexagram which you also need to consider. My other I Ching book, the author of which I forgot, also has descriptions of these changing lines, though I don't think Crowley ever went very far in explaining these.

My method of using six coins is probably not very traditional and I perhaps should also try to find another method.

If you get more interested in I Ching, you'll also notice, for example, that the hexagram is composed of an upper and lower trigram. Crowley also mapped these trigrams to Tree of Life and I think this mapping is shown at least in my copy of Book of Thoth and also in Magick Without Tears. While some people might criticize that these two systems are products of almost totally separated cultures and shouldn't be mixed like this, I personally find this mapping quite satisfactory and useful. For instance, one should remember that the Moon trigram is not exactly like Yesod. But if I want to understand what the trigrams mean, I need to start by associating these ideas of I Ching to *something* that's already imprinted on my mind. If I have already built this basic Tree of Life + Qabalistic system in my mind, why not use it to my benefit?

(BTW, sorry if this is drifting slightly off topic for this forum -- if there's going to be more discussion of I Ching, perhaps we should move it to the Magick forum.)

And while we are on the subject of fellow mac users and help, could someone please explain in mac lingo how the heck to use the quote thingy? I have an ibook and have highlighted and used quote selected and every other option available only to have it quote an entire message and then not actually posting any of it, and me having to resort to copy and paste quotes, aaargh!
Q

I never got that "quote selected" thing working with Safari browser. But as lashtal said, just click the "quote" button under the message you wish to reply to. The text area will then have the original message inside quote tags. Remove the parts of the original message you don't need and write your message outside the quote tags, just be sure you don't remove the quote tags and preview the message before sending it.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"lashtal" wrote:
Do you mean Quoting posts on Forums? If so, it doesn't matter which platform you're using. At the bottom right of each post you'll see a button labelled "Quote". Just use that instead of "Post Reply".

OMG, I know I've tried this many times, and this is the first time it worked. πŸ™„

Thanks Paul!
And anpi, thanks for the information, I'm sure others as well as myself find it very helpful. Q πŸ˜‰


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Baxian
(@baxian)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 74
 

Hi anpi

But if I want to understand what the trigrams mean, I need to start by associating these ideas of I Ching to *something* that's already imprinted on my mind. If I have already built this basic Tree of Life + Qabalistic system in my mind, why not use it to my benefit?

I understand the desire to do that.
I don't think it's a great idea though.

Dont you think you might be limiting what you can learn from the I-Ching by fitting it into a pre-existing system from such a different culture?
The chinese ways of thinking are so different from most western ways of thinking. Even the Language is quite different.
So to place the I-ching into a western model makes it likely that a lot of valuable information and wisdom of the I-ching could be overlooked.

Just my take : )

Baxian.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Baxian" wrote:
Hi anpi

But if I want to understand what the trigrams mean, I need to start by associating these ideas of I Ching to *something* that's already imprinted on my mind. If I have already built this basic Tree of Life + Qabalistic system in my mind, why not use it to my benefit?

I understand the desire to do that.
I don't think it's a great idea though.

Dont you think you might be limiting what you can learn from the I-Ching by fitting it into a pre-existing system from such a different culture?
The chinese ways of thinking are so different from most western ways of thinking. Even the Language is quite different.
So to place the I-ching into a western model makes it likely that a lot of valuable information and wisdom of the I-ching could be overlooked.

I don't know if it's that big a problem, especially if you use proper intelligence and discretion.

For example, if I use I Ching and get the Moon hexagram, I won't usually allow myself to think "Moon trigram = Yesod = Change in stability", or "Thunder trigram = Geburah = 5". I try to use the hexagrams as they're defined in the Chinese system, I just think that mapping these to our Western system may help me in understanding what the Chinese perhaps meant with them.

So, if I see that Crowley has inserted the Joyous trigram in Chesed, I can in my mind extract from Chesed the more atomic qualities which fit with the definition of Joyous trigram but discard those that don't fit. I can take many of the Watery qualities of Chesed since the Joyous trigram is also watery (it's also called Lake), I can take the joy and certain qualities of fathernal love. On the other hand, I should perhaps forget there's a link to Chokmah via the Vau path.

It's just a matter of picking the matter from what I already know to build these new symbols in my mind. If I didn't use my Western system, I'd have to use other more mundane stuff that's already in my mind, such as memories of European lakes, animals, literature, etc.

Another thing is that if it is improper to map the Chinese system to the Tree of Life, we probably should also quite seriously consider whether the whole syncretic system presented by Crowley in 777 is proper. Mixing Hebrew, Egyptian, Roman, etc, concepts is not without potential problems either, even though these cultures may have more common roots with each other than with Chinese culture.

You still raise some interesting points and I've very often thought about how much mixing of different systems is wise. For example, many Golden Dawn rituals happily mix Christian and Egyptian symbols, while someone who is mainly Christian (or on the other hand working mainly with the Egyptian system) may sneer at such practice.


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Baxian
(@baxian)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 74
 

Hi Anpi.

It appears that many great magicians have gotten alot out of mapping various systems on to the tree of life. So far be it from me to say it doesn't bear fruit.
My take has to do with cultural/personal conditioning. The Qabala, and tree of life diagram, it seems to me, were created by learned men and woman over time. And contains the limitations of those who made it IMO, no matter how clever they were.
Same can surely be said for the I-Ching and chinese thought.

So I feel that to put the I-Ching on the tree might distort the I-chings philososphy to that of the qabalistic model. Maybe. I might be wrong.
It's something I might try anyway for interests sake. πŸ™‚

The syncretic approach seems one of attempting to show some kind of theosophical connectivity. Crowley really respected Blavatsky. And Blavatsky seemed to love to show the interelationships of perenial philosophy, to show underlying "truths".

To me saying that some philosophy is in spirit like another is fine.
Taking america Indian practice and fiting it into Voodoo though, might get some interesting results, but I wonder what gets lost or distorted in that process.

Cheers.
Baxian.


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Baxian
(@baxian)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 74
 

Sorry, I think I may have hijacked the thread a little...back to the MacYiKing thing.


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daopig
(@daopig)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 68
 

This MACINTOSH ONLY software is freeware and available from www.nuyidao.com but the site sometimes goes down for no reason. It is hosted in Texarse.

The guy who wrote the software put away his geek spectacles after publishing the codex with his crazy-ass software program.

He then went on to commission a limited edition run of hand-made trigram coins ?!?

He probably still has a few left. He had a flurry of orders that came from Zeus knows where - since there was no marketing budget. But he told me that once they are gone they are gone, since they were hand made by a metal mastering hermit from Miami. Unfortunately the relationship went sour. And the artisan then had a series of personal misfortunes, hopefully unrelated to the new aeonic forces that were unleashed by running a Thelemic Mint. I really don't think he knew what forces he was taking on.

The last I heard was that the macYiKing author made zero money out of the Chinese divination racket and would never again try and address a magickal market consisting of uneven-eyed raggamuffins who pay f-all for good quality. Seems they just want freebies, old books and a free ride and are non-plussed and bemused by the whole episode.

He has now sold his ass into corporate slavery and is known to erupt at the mere mention of the Yi - even words what rhyme with it, like Wii.

He intimated to me that he had no idea that there were so few highly discriminating weirdos in the world. Not enough to make thelemic artistic projects worthwhile, i.e. pay for themselves anyways.

A sad story all in all.


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1994
 

A sad story all in all.

But perhaps the "sad tale" is setting up for the slam-dunk of it's next installment. Who can tell? A gracious individual actually gifted me with the very set of coins you describe and I can attest from first hand coin-tossing, they are beautiful and carry a wonderful energy. It's a shame that there was lack in the marketing area but I would encourage any Lashtalians who work with the I Ching to seek out this particular set ere "they are gone." Perhaps such contact information might be made available?

In the erstwhile, Wii won't be using pennies for a LONG time... πŸ˜‰


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