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Attributing validity to the Tree of Life

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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Sephiroth was making the point about the transcendent experiences of Jesus, Zarathustra, and Moses. 

I missed all that. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes a perusal of the thread sheds to light. It's that Gap in Consciousness called Paroketh. I am considering large doses of Prozac-TM.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

some nobody goes away, and comes back a somebody. 

Somebodys are not usually "recognized" by more than a few, until 2 weeks to 400 years after they die. It take "one who follows" to wsit the script and do the marketing (Saul Paul, is a great example - he expounded it all, all right.


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva You're fine. I am sure you are kidding about the Prozac, (Unless you are clinically Depressed)  Okay, you overlooked a comment, hardly a reason to wear a hair suit, or flagellate yourself (unless that's your bag) I would disagree with on one point, not all "somebodies"  have to be dead. Buddha, Jesus, Zarathustra, St. Paul, Muhammed were all recognized in their lifetimes.  But yes a lot of Marketing and revisionism is required.  (The authors of the Gospels wrote about Jesus about a hundred years after his death, with the possible exception of Matthew.)  Even the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid texts were subject to revision and redaction.

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

kidding about the Prozac,

Oh, yeah. I did a one-person, clinical trial of that item, for about a month. I was not clinically depressed. I was conducting my usual first-hand assessment of over-hyped substances. Guess what? It made me clinically depressed. Seriously. I had to stop the trial so I could go to work. That's the short story, in lieu of the full, gory details, because it's not about Validating the Tree - and continuing off-topic topics can get my licensed pulled.

 


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva Taking an anti-depressant, or any psychotropic medication, if you are not diagnosed with manic disorder, depression, psychosis,  WILL produce the symptoms that it is supposed to subdue (Serotonin uptake inhibitors) in a "normal person"  Weird but true.  Getting on topic, The Tree of Life, and I presume you mean the Qabalistic tree, still eludes me because it is so abstract.  I did find out that is no one Qabalstic system, but many.  It all started in medieval Spain before the diaspora of Jews and Muslims.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @sephirah

 

Moses (with his serpent/sperm/kundalini/yod staff) coming down from the mountain with the second set of Ten Commandments, emanating rays of light from his head. 

It is fitting that this path could relate to Moses and his ordeals as it links Chesed (Mercy)which relates to the story of Baal (and Jews suffering in the desert drought) to Tipareth.  In fact it may be that The  Hermit in the ATU is indeed Moses.    

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Taking an anti-depressant, or any psychotropic medication, if you are not diagnosed with manic disorder, depression, psychosis,  WILL produce the symptoms that it is supposed to subdue

Thank you. Are you reciting this for the choir, or for me - the doc?

Note: Prozac, et al, (TM), causes clinical depression in folks who are already depressed. One of the most common side-effects is suicide. Oops. The literature now states, "thoughts of suicide," probably because the death rate disclosure would cut down on the rate of consumption.

I've had a couple patients who were taking this type of med. One was abducted by archons and they wanted to implant an implant. (Apparently one must give the okay). She adamantly refused. They sent her back - she's needed these meds since then - fully diagnosed (by the shrink).

Then she, and all the abductees and depressed persons, take their med, but feel like they are dying - or they want to kill themselves - and they STOP the meds (sometimes to post on LAShTAL). When they stop the meds, anybody can soon tell that they are crazy. This cycle (of take & not-take) goes on ............ [infinity symbol]

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

The Tree of Life, and I presume you mean the Qabalistic tree

Around here, there is only one Tree. The thread is about validating that Tree. I assume validating means "proving it true" - as opposed to some convenient agenda that will not hold water above, say, Paroketh.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

still eludes me because it is so abstract.

In the lower 4 spheres, and their connecting paths, nothing is abstract. It is either physical (10), astral-emotional (9), mental-neurological [facts-skills] (8), or philosophical-psychological (7). All these pertain to our 3D world and attendant 4D (astral-lowermental) world. So they are all explainable and understandable by 6th graders.

Once we move up past Paroketh, those three "middle spheres" are just sub-planes of the abstract mind. I'd suggest lumping these together as an "HGA" real, and sticking to the lower realms 'til it begins to click.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I did find out that is no one Qabalstic system, but many.

And now you're faced with an enigmatic dilemma. If you go with the Tables in 777and the words/numbers in Sepher Sephiroththen you will be able to communicate (two-ways) around here. If you go with anything else, the best of luck to you, but you will be looking for The Lost Word by yourself - maybe with a couple others you meet in their QBL site.

There is only one Thelemic QBL. Some folks fiddle with it. Crowley only made one change (a switcheroo) in the G.D. concept as put together by Allan Bennett (AC's mentor).

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

It all started in medieval Spain before the diaspora of Jews and Muslims.

Please exercise caution when stating controversial concepts as facts. Quoting some article is not a fact - it is that author's opinion. 

The Jewish Diaspora (73 AD) started before the Medieval period.

 


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva Thanks for the basic review of The Tree of Life, it gives me a starting point.  When I was writing about the Jewish-Muslem Diaspora from Spain, I was rightly or wrongly speaking about The Alhambra Decree of 1492, when all Jews and Muslims were expelled from Spain under King Ferdinand and Queen Isabela.  It is interesting to note that occult philosophies and esoteric schools of thought were spread throughout much of the world BECAUSE of mass migration of peoples and cultures.  Unlike Christians (Catholic Church)  Jews under Muslim control were treated well, and allowed to practice their religion.

Now for my amateur lecture on Psychotropics, I forgot you are a retired Doctor, so I guess I was preaching to you.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva

In the lower 4 spheres, and their connecting paths, nothing is abstract. It is either physical (10), astral-emotional (9), mental-neurological [facts-skills] (8), or philosophical-psychological (7). All these pertain to our 3D world and attendant 4D (astral-lowermental) world. So they are all explainable and understandable by 6th graders.

 

Whoa Whoa!  According to Shiva that is.  In actuality the Tree and it's 32 paths are far older than Leary (whose shoulders you are apparently standing on) and his circuit theories which you incessantly discuss like they are a given.  The Tree is about everything, any organization in the cosmos from the formation of galaxies or photosynthesis to a businesses man opening up a cafe.. hence my OP details.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

it gives me a starting point

If you really want to get off to a hard, solid start, concentrate on Malkuth for the primary reference points. Scan all the "correspondences" for (#10 - Malkuth) in the 777 Tables.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

BECAUSE of mass migration of peoples and cultures

I understand. Here's the general consensus (or dissention) in these hollow halls (haloed? holed? halloo?) - The Hebrew letters having numbers goes way, way back. Even before 73 AD. Anyone is invited to correct me - I am stating "fact" based on my belief system, so I am vulnerable. This is not unusual. Many ancient  lingos get into the numerology maneuver.

It is my understanding that the Tree of Life was constructed by a Jesuit priest, circa 1600s, in order to better understand the Hebrew lingo and its spiritual aspects.

Somewhere along the line, somebody stuck the Atu onto and into the Paths. Even my prestigious belief system fails me at this point. Katrice seems to be knowledgeable in the historical infusion of the Atu. She also documents many switches, changes, and fiddlings.

All this (the Tree, the Atu, the Numbers) became stabilized, for our purposes, by Allan Bennett, and AC published his work - making only one  change, as instructed to do so in AL.

The instructions for using these correspondences and symbols, in daily life, for building a mental scaffold and framework, are discussed by him, the Master T, in Magick without Tears.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I forgot you are a retired Doctor

I am still a doctor - it says so on my diploma(s). The "retired" part simply means that I no longer pay my (licensure) dues in advance. I also no longer pay the dues for my dental certifications, x-ray license, the denturist association, the concealed carry permit, the continuing education school approval, or my membership in the Japan Karate assn. The only license I have left in active status allows me to drive cars, trucks, and motorcycles. Just think of the annual fees and dues I save.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I guess I was preaching to you.

The choir is always listening to the sermon. Perhaps our dialog convinced some hapless wit to read the literature before they ask their doc to prescribe Prazac.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

In actuality the Tree and it's 32 paths are far older than Leary

No Shinola? I thought he invented the Tree, Crowley, and Acid.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

(whose shoulders you are apparently standing on)

I stand on anybody's shoulders who presents a reasonably valid description of the invisible spectrum. To me, the circuits, the spheres, the levels of consciousness, the grades (if honestly earned, not just claimed or bestowed), and the Tasks of the Grades (the practices), are all the same thing.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

circuit theories which you incessantly discuss like they are a given

In my (QBL) book, they are a given. In fact, I give out their correlations and practical applications in several of my books. I also get all this to work smoothly in daily life. What else do you want?

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

The Tree is about everything

Exactly.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

hence my OP details.

The only way anyone can validate the Tree is by learning the data, then applying it to daily life. Mere mental, linear correspondences only validate a mental construct. Thus there are two stages to the project - mental and experiential (existential, perhaps).

 


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva Okay, then Malkuth it is. Thanks.


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva I found an interesting video on YouTube presented by Paul Hughes Barlow (Are you familiar with him?)  Sense I set great store by Mr. Crowley Book of Thoth Tarot, the subject of his lecture is: The Four Tens in Malkuth on the Tree of Life as it pertains to the Book of Thoth. Hopeully, I may start to get some insight.  


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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

The Four Tens in Malkuth

Never heard of the chap. Yes, the FOUR ELEMENTS are found at Malkuth. Earth, water, air, fire. You know all of these by heart - you have touched them. Nothing abstract (yet). What a good solid balanced beginning.


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva So it is the Key to the Kingdom.  I'll keep studying.


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