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Body of Light Vs. Astral Projection  

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 Anonymous
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27/10/2012 7:35 pm  

93

I'm interested in beginning to form the body of light in order for astral travel.

However, I'm confused between this term, and traditional astral projection or out of body experiences (OBEs).

Is there a difference? I hear some say that there is, and others say there is not.

In what I've read from Crowley, it sounds like a conscious process that can eventually be done at will. With OBEs/astral projections, it seems to be rare to be able to do it at will, and it is usually done at the border of waking and sleep.

I'd love to hear any description of the differences, or what might be expected with body-of-light travel/path working. I'm pretty good at single-minded focus so perhaps it won't be too difficult, but I've always struggled with astral projection.


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Azidonis
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27/10/2012 11:45 pm  

Notes for an Astral Atlas


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 Anonymous
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28/10/2012 1:41 am  
"Azidonis" wrote:

Thanks, been meaning to look this up. 🙂


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 Anonymous
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28/10/2012 1:23 am  
"Azidonis" wrote:

I read this, but i don't think it answered my question about the difference between this and an OBE, where the consciousness literally leaves the body completely. is there a difference or not?


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Azidonis
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28/10/2012 2:41 am  
"devbanana" wrote:
"Azidonis" wrote:

I read this, but i don't think it answered my question about the difference between this and an OBE, where the consciousness literally leaves the body completely. is there a difference or not?

From Wikipedia:

The term out-of-body experience [...] was adopted [...] as an alternative to belief-centric labels such as "astral projection", "soul travel", or "spirit walking".


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 Anonymous
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28/10/2012 4:01 am  
    "Azidonis" wrote:
    From Wikipedia:

    The term out-of-body experience [...] was adopted [...] as an alternative to belief-centric labels such as "astral projection", "soul travel", or "spirit walking".

    Yes, I understand this as well, but I mentioned some discrepancies in my original post:

    1. In astral projection, it is said that the astral body leaves the physical body. This astral body is something, presumably from the literature, that already exists. On the other hand, with the body of light, it must be constructed, formed, often over a period of time, and the consciousness transferred to it in some way.
    2. Astral projection is best done at the border of wakefulness and sleep, when that astral body is freest to move about. The body of light is done while fully awake, though in meditation.
    3. Astral projection is rarely done reliably at will, or at least it takes generally years of practice to do so, and even then it may not always work as such. It sounds like the body of light, after a period of practice, can be formed and entered into at will within meditation.

    This is the source of my question.


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eol
 eol
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28/10/2012 9:10 am  

Then why not experimenting with both? Work with Liber O on getting into Body of Light. Then experiment with what they call Astral Projection(there are a dozen of practices out there) and see if there are any differences. I don't see any. Most of theoretical writing on the matter that I have read so far was done by people who have never experienced AP/OBE/BodyofLight themselves.


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Michael Staley
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28/10/2012 11:41 am  

I don't think that the differences between these phenomena are cut-and-dried. Rather, there's a continuum taking in lucid dreaming, the Body of Light, Astral Projection, and out-of-the-body experiences.

For instances, one of the classic books is Astral Projection by Oliver Fox, a development of two articles - 'The Pineal Doorway' and 'Beyond the Pineal Doorway' - which he had published in the Occult Review. In his case, out-of-the-body experiences started from lucid dreaming once he realised that he was dreaming. Later he managed to trigger out-of-the-body experiences without the preliminaries of lucid dreaming.

The classic method of astral projection is via intense visualisation - to imagine the asttral body coinciding with the physical, then slowly moving away. To my mind, then, there is no real distinction between on the one hand creating the Body of Light and moving awareness into it,  and on the other projecting the astral body. Both are out-of-the-body experiences, as is lucid dreaming as set out by Oliver Fox.

I've come across suggestions that, for instance, the chakras don't exist but need to be created by the practitioner. In Woodroffe's The Serpent Power there is a suggestion that it is not Kundalini which is raised, but a simulacra created by the practitioner. Again, Gurdjieff maintained that a soul or essence wasn't inherent, but had to be created by the practitioner.

The key to all this in my opinion is imagination. Many regard this as mere whim or fancy, but it's something much more powerful and creative, the womb or matrix fertilised by inspiration.


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wolfangel
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28/10/2012 4:38 pm  

During a NDE, Breakdown, Complex Hallucination take your pick depending on your perception, my awareness was moved to a position where i could see my own body, out of the body experience. I am not wholly sure my awareness had a form, only that my awareness was removed from its physical substance, ie i no longer felt a tie to sensory phenomena, yet i was experiencing what appeared to be sensory phenomena from my new spatial and temporal position. No awareness though whether my awareness had form to make these observations from its new position thou.

I did however experience other entities/ forms that appeared to have some kind of form to me, a serpent for example. I wonder if it is necessary for awareness to take any kind of form when experiencing these states, or if awareness in these states is beyond forms yet uses the language (sensory or otherwise) of prior recognised forms to communicate with the now disembodied/disassociated/dislocated consciousness.

Similar things seem to happen when mind shifts between awake awareness (Beta) and relaxed contemplation (Alpha) at the point of transition as the brain adjusts to heightened or lowered breath.
Their seems to occur a betwixt state in consciousness at this point no steady state of awareness as continuum is present, perception and awareness feel disassociated as they shift between states, time and space also appear to be different to perceptions held from a wakeful or relaxed position, measurements would dictate otherwise, yet at the moments of change awareness seems to under go some kind of transformation.

Whether that be from a sense of dislocation or a sense that awareness has somehow changed.


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Azidonis
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28/10/2012 6:07 pm  
"devbanana" wrote:
  • In astral projection, it is said that the astral body leaves the physical body. This astral body is something, presumably from the literature, that already exists. On the other hand, with the body of light, it must be constructed, formed, often over a period of time, and the consciousness transferred to it in some way.

As per your question re: OBE - Astral Projection and an OBE are the same thing.

The Astral Body is the Body of Light. It's already "there". What you are talking about is projecting an image of yourself into the thought sphere, and "moving around in it", a practice commonly called Astral Projection, or traveling in the Light Body. There are two terms for the same thing. Light Body is the label of a sharpened perception of one's Astral double. In other words, the Light Body is the Astral Body devoid of it's gunk.

"devbanana" wrote:
  • Astral projection is best done at the border of wakefulness and sleep, when that astral body is freest to move about. The body of light is done while fully awake, though in meditation.

In both cases, the sort of dream state is similar. If there is any difference, in meditation is more controlled and more willed, and thus more capable of helping to develop the Light Body.

"devbanana" wrote:
  • Astral projection is rarely done reliably at will, or at least it takes generally years of practice to do so, and even then it may not always work as such. It sounds like the body of light, after a period of practice, can be formed and entered into at will within meditation.

Astral Projection takes practice. Eventually, one can gain enough control over the Astral Body to begin "Rising on the Planes". When one finally begins the practice of "Rising on the Planes" the grossest parts of the Astral Body slowly burn away. The result of the process is the Light Body. They are the same thing.

For more information on this, see Pathworking.

An example:
Put a golden statue into a wheelbarrow, with a few tiny holes in the bottom. Then fill the wheelbarrow with dirt, covering the statue. As you push the wheelbarrow around, the dirt slowly leaks out. Eventually, the dirt is mostly out, and all that is left traveling in the wheelbarrow is the golden statue. The wheelbarrow itself is "lighter" due to the absence of the dirt. It is "brighter" due to the reflection cast on the aethyr by the golden statue, and not by the dirt.


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 Anonymous
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08/11/2012 7:48 pm  

I would say:
Leaving the body is more along the lines of Etheric,
While Astral is the traversing of the inner planes.


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 Anonymous
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21/11/2012 3:59 am  

93
There are as many ideas and systems with their own logic regarding the astral body and body of light as there are views on how magick works - in my experience - little as it is, but also with help from a much more experience magician, the body of light is a much more secure vessel i think - like the Merkava chariot of the early jewish mystics. It is far stronger than a mental projection or etheric projection or astral projection and some texts even indicate that it is more or less like a golem on the planes that you transfer your consciousness into. this is why also it gets spoken of as being something which one must develop
Following things like Robert Bruces Astral Dynamics where it is all about having a strong sense of every part of the subtle body like some mirror of the physical and also similar practices found in books like ophiels art and practice of astral projection. In works like Meditation and Kabbalah by Aryeh Kaplan one finds also an outline of the techniques by jewish mystics that are very intense and so particular but are required through the both powerful and dangerous passing through Hekalot palaces, through the guardians. One gets the impression that the body of light in its developed form is very strong and could take take consciousness very far
but again, there is nothing perhaps to say that the body of light need only be this and visionary experiences can come through just mental projections in scrying even -  perhaps the strenght and breadth of the vision and communication may vary
crowley says that liber samekh is to be done in the body of light -as that is quite a lengthy and involved experience one certainly would need to be in a strong vessel with their consciousness and memory of the whole ritual intact (though as a ritual on the physical plane liber samekh can also bring experiences and contact with other beings too!)

best regards
93 93/93


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 Anonymous
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05/07/2013 11:19 pm  

93 devbanana
I think I know what you are looking for. I had this question in mind a few years ago and I started to read Robert Monroe, Frank Kepple and Thomas Campbell´s works. You may know that Monroe is not religious and the other two are scientifics and very sceptical, but they all (they were working together in some projects) done a great work for the investigation of OBE. They provoked the mind to stay awake until your body falls asleep, that I think is the easiest way to do it, and in this technique I tnink every time that you go out of your body you reach better level of consciousness. Because every human has a astral body. But we life in the physical plane, so our astral body in the astral plane is like a child that doesn´t understand anything. But using the body of light we create some kind of a copy of out body here that we can use there. I´ve never practiced OBE with the Body of Light, and I´m not sure, but I think that you upgrade your astral body before you leave this plane, so it will be the best way to do it.


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Philip Harris-Smith
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06/07/2013 11:25 pm  

On a practical note I read and tried the following some years ago from Conway's: Magic An Occult Primer.  Basically after some work on developing the body of light or equivalent out-of body prep technique.  Eat some salt and then leave a cool clear unsalted glass of water on the altar.  When you are thirsty enough go to drink the water in your 'body of light'.  You may find initially you do a double take when you turn and see your physical body and are jolted back which is unpleasant(I did).
This does not answer the basic question posed here but the experience provides further thought about it all.

Also please note not to drink salt water and get thirsty often because it could cause kidney problems I am thinking.


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christibrany
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14/07/2013 12:04 am  

My 2 pence such as it is:
I have a lot of experience with non-ordinary consciousness, and for years I attempted to astral project. When I was finally able to do it, I can say it is completely a tangible, tactile, and 'normal' feeling experience, except you are not in your body.  In other words, as mick says, imagination is key, but it is only the beginning, not the whole.    I can't do it on command unfortunately, but feel fortunate to have done it a few times.
The key difference between true OBE/astral projection, and astral skrying i would say is tactile sense.  When I astral project, I literally feel out of body.  I can feel the weird 'surface' of things with my astral hands even as they may go through it, I can feel gravity (if i choose) , and i can feel the texture of the carpet on my feet if i'm not floating- but that is all very faint of a sense, touch, compared to being in body.  The biggest physical sense I get out of body is that of movement , the astral body moves and seems to have its own kind of g-force, based not just on your whims but on subtle currents.    I could see my body lying there on the floor, but it was sleeping. 
The key to succesful obe's is having your body asleep while your mind stays awake.  The way I know (personally) this has happened is I can hear my body snoring.  Unfortunately the sound usually wakes my body up but other times I can use it to leave my body at will.

The body of light, I think would be akin to the astral body used in projecting, but although it is basically the same, is more imagination and 'skrying' based than projecting based.  In other words, for me it seems body of light would be a term I would use when I am astral travelling but only mentally.  This is always dangerous because unlike a true astral projection/obe with the physical senses it engenders, I personally find it hard to separate a day dream from an astral skrying in the body of light.  Sometimes you just have to trust your intuition I guess.  I hope my ramble was, if not completely helpful, at least somewhat interesting. 


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christibrany
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14/07/2013 12:07 am  

PS  As an aside, I find that since (I believe) this practise of Astral Projecting  is based on various frequencies of vibration, (you can feel your energy body buzzing and vibrating before you leave, as if its powering up higher frequency) it is much more difficult to accomplish if you are not sober for a long length of time.  I speak primarily of alcohol, I was prescribed opiates for a long while and that did not seem to hinder it, the relaxation engendered helped, and my vibrations didnt seem to suffer.  Alcohol however, although affecting the same mu receptors in your brain, seemed to make my energy body sluggish and dull and unable to lift off.  So I would avoid that, and I would also avoid eating a lot and drinking a lot before hand, because it also makes you heavy (and have to pee 😀 ) . Good luck astral-nauts.


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 Anonymous
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16/07/2013 12:45 am  

I know this post is off topic, but I must correct a rather glaring mistake that Chris made in the post above.  Alcohol does NOT stimulate the Mu receptors.  If it did, then alcohol would relieve withdrawal symptoms and effectively kill pain, and you know as well as I do that it does NOT.  The only similarity between alcohol and opiates/opioids is that they are both CNS depressants.  As someone who suffers from chronic pain, this is a subject that I know quite a bit about, and the last thing those of us who suffer from chronic pain need is more misinformation out there.  'Nuff said.  Back on topic now.


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christibrany
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16/07/2013 7:36 am  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9399694

"The mu opioid receptor is implicated in the reward, tolerance and withdrawal effects of alcohol and other drugs of abuse."

edit: can you move mine and noxs last post here off the thread paul it dont fit in 😉


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 Anonymous
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16/07/2013 4:17 pm  

Don't argue with me here, guy.  Look at the end of your own article "OPRM1 variation on alcohol dependence and 100% power to detect effects of the magnitude of the ALDH2*2 variant. While these data do not support a role of the mu opioid receptor in susceptibility to alcohol dependence, the potential relationship between OPRM1 genetic variation and response to endogenous opioids and exogenous opiates can now be investigated." 

If alcohol was a real Mu agonist then it follows that in the treatment of alcohol withdrawal opiates/opioids would be an effective treatment.  They are not.  Benzodiazepines (GABA Agonists) are used in medical practice to treat that.  This is where I think your confusion began and hopefully here is where it will end.

My posts were meant in the spirit of Harm Reduction.  What if someone reading those posts, Chris, is alcohol dependent and decides "Oh, well I'll just take some codeine to kick this nasty drinking habit."  Then they fall the fuck out having a seizure from the alcohol DT's and die.  Misleading information can be very dangerous.  Ditto on deleting these off topic posts, though!


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jamie barter
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16/07/2013 5:08 pm  

And there was me thinking all this time that “Mu” was some sorta prehistoric island in the Pacific conjured up by some guy called Churchward…

Adrift at sea,
Norma N. Joy Conquest


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anarchistbanjo
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18/08/2013 2:40 am  

If I may offer my own two cents worth as well. Personal experience has allowed me the opportunity to develop non-physical bodies out of several types of energies which I term simply:

Abstract spiritual body of Light-awareness resides in a round ball of light and is able to travel the universe at will.

Concrete Spiritual human shaped body of light without noticible human features (like facial features or sexual organs-ability to travel higher levels of the astral at will.

Abstract Mental human shaped astral body with general human features not including sexual organs-an astral body with the ability of traveling the mental planes at will.

Concrete Mental human shaped astral body with human features including sexual organs(non erect or non-funtioning(no body hair or tactile ability-an astral body able to travel the mental planes at will.

Upper emotional human shaped astral body with human features including erect or funtional sexual organs(no body hair or tactile ability-able to travel the lower emotional levels.

Lower Emotional human shaped astral/etheric body with functioning sexual organs and body hair and limited tactile ability-upper etheric levels

Etheric human shaped etheric body fully functioning with weight discernment and pressure discernment, also the ability to read papers or etheric documents.

Elemental human shaped lower etheric body able to physically hold and help or fight others at the same level.

Each of these levels has their own realms, sensory inputs and limitations.

The lowest level is that of "black" sexual energy and includes the non physical abilities of orgasm and feeling at the genital levels as well as skin sensations and minute body hair.

Each of these can be permanently activated and travel at will to desired destinations.

These are created or generated out of "soulmate cycles" or "scarlet women" cycles through a pregnancy and "birth process".

One is simply amazed at what one can meet at these various levels. Astral/etheric fights are common.

-joe

PS
I realize that this will be considered bull* Shrug. If you have done something it isn't bragging.


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