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Crowley's/Harris's Minor Arcana designs are comparitively appalling


David Dom Lemieux
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A.E.Waite's Minor Arcana are beautiful and profound representations of any socio-economic circumstance or situation or event you could care to imagine rich in symbolism and evocative.   Crowley's are in contrast just stark and devoid of description.  I don't get it, was this a rushed job?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @tiger  etc

Yeah very good, amazing in fact but you get my point theyr'e totally abstract. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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I like the Minor Arcana cards; they're absorbing. They're certainly not in my opinion "relatively appalling".

 

(Strange term, by the way. Surely something is "appalling" or it's not. "Relatively appalling" just doesn't cut the mustard. "Relatively horrific"? "Mildly devastating"? "Modestly traumatic"?)


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

theyr'e totally abstract. 

Well, of course they're abstract. Symbolism works that way.  I cannot see the description of Waite's deck being any "better" than Thoth's. The trick is to forget the initial impression and focus on the modified mandalas in order to appreciate the core vibration (frequency) it represents.

Posted by: @michael-staley

"Relatively horrific"? "Mildly devastating"? "Modestly traumatic"?

Some of the Thoth cards are disturbing, especially if one is addicted or held in bondage by one of those cards where simple straight lines become jagged, or those that portray wilting flowers. They may then be described by people using different terms, but always with a sense of aversion.

Apparently, dom was expressing his personal opinion, which we may use as an indicator, a "reading," of his psyche and its manifold apprehensions.

 


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Tiger
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image

“ Stagnant water deadened
Water appears no longer as the Sea
but as pools without fluorescence.
Lotuses droop
for lack of sun and rain
and the soil is poison to them.
The cups, shallow, old and broken.
Lagoons incapable of cultivation;
only disease and miasmic poison flourish. “
The Book of Thoth pg 200

Maybe some need words with the cards in order to get through, understand and appreciate the jarring potencies behind them.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @michael-staley

I like the Minor Arcana cards; they're absorbing. They're certainly not in my opinion "relatively appalling".

 

(Strange term, by the way. Surely something is "appalling" or it's not. "Relatively appalling" just doesn't cut the mustard. "Relatively horrific"? "Mildly devastating"? "Modestly traumatic"?)

I didn't say "relatively" did I?

Reread the title.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @dom

I didn't say "relatively" did I?

Reread the title.

Yes, you did. Sorry, my mistake.

Not that "comparatively appalling" is that much less strange than "relatively appalling". Still,  what do I know? I can't even read a post's title properly. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @michael-staley

I can't even read a post's title properly. 

"Relatively" and "comparatively" can be shown to mean exactly the same thing. No karma. No blame.


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mzezz
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I find Crowley's minor arcana very evocative. And deep, blunt and beautifully true in what they provoke. Starkness and clarity spring to mind. Personally, I'd rather the appalling truth than an appealing lie.

There is almost too much a 'story' to Waite's pictorial representations for me, there is not as much 'work' to be done in my subconscious. I think of Waite as 'tarot light' vs the depth of Thoth. They are more soothing reveal - even the 'harder' cards.

Like the sanitised version of fairytales children are told these days as opposed to Grimms originals, which are far 'darker' and 'scary'. Both have their uses.

(and thank you Shiva for the recommendation of a pack last year - the last time I posted on these boards - the 'Inner Child' ones? they are gorgeous and a few of my friends have them too now).


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

theyr'e totally abstract. 

Well, of course they're abstract. Symbolism works that way.  I cannot see the description of Waite's deck being any "better" than Thoth's. The trick is to forget the initial impression and focus on the modified mandalas in order to appreciate the core vibration (frequency) it represents.

If someone wants a situation clarified you think that the abstract design would do the job better than Waite's Minor Arcana?   

 

Posted by: @mzezz

I find Crowley's minor arcana very evocative. And deep, blunt and beautifully true in what they provoke. Starkness and clarity spring to mind. Personally, I'd rather the appalling truth than an appealing lie.

 

Yeah I guess Crowley's Minor Arcana is more surreal and subjective as oppose to Waite's representations of the external.....  but situations involve the external also.   It's not a case of one deck is a lie and the other isn't.    

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @mzezz

I find Crowley's minor arcana very evocative

Evocative is a good word. After all, these lesser arcana are just the four divisions (elements) of the various sephiroth. That makes them "elementals" or "blind forces," sometimes called "spirits" or even "demons."

Posted by: @mzezz

the 'Inner Child' ones? they are gorgeous

I recommend The Inner Child Cards (Lerner) simply because they gave (I haven't done a reading in years) me the clearest readings. However, for studying the arcane mysteries, the Thoth deck is superior.

Posted by: @dom

If someone wants a situation clarified you think that the abstract design would do the job better than Waite's Minor Arcana?

No. I/we have done extensive experimentation with several decks over decades of time. Some decks are easier for different people and some a harder for others. Just to make a point, I dug up a pack of profane plating cards and cranked out readings as easily as a Thoth display or a Waite show. In short, any deck will do the job for a divination.

But many decks won't be suitable for esoteric studies.

Posted by: @dom

Crowley's Minor Arcana is more surreal and subjective as oppose to Waite's

In divination, one gets to the point where it's all subjective. Any card may appear in a reading. Upon looking at it, it will change (in one's mind) and the interpretation  becomes clear. One hour later, the same card pops up for the next client, but upon looking at this same card, the "change" is different, and the interpretation comes out slightly different.

 


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mzezz
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @mzezz

I find Crowley's minor arcana very evocative

Evocative is a good word. After all, these lesser arcana are just the four divisions (elements) of the various sephiroth. That makes them "elementals" or "blind forces," sometimes called "spirits" or even "demons."

Thank you, and that makes more sense of how they can be forces for 'good' or 'bad'. And while I was aware of the 'four worlds / elements' aspect, I hadn't figured how they 'sat' - the development into 'elementals, blind forces, spirits, demons' makes perfect sense of 'cohesively' for me.


Posted by: @mzezz

the 'Inner Child' ones? they are gorgeous

I recommend The Inner Child Cards (Lerner) simply because they gave (I haven't done a reading in years) me the clearest readings. However, for studying the arcane mysteries, the Thoth deck is superior.

The Inner Child give such beautiful readings. I used / gave them to a friend who loves them. They have helped her greatly, not only personally but in finding her path, so thank you again and I pass on gratitude from her and myself (as it is so hard helplessly seeing a friend in pain - that pack in particular brings such comfort and clarity).

I use Thoth for studying / learning, and it has led me to get some other (related) packs to use more for study and a deeper understanding - although the combination of reading / learning in Thoth is more experiential than solely using a pack for cognitive purposes. 

 

Posted by: @dom

Crowley's Minor Arcana is more surreal and subjective as oppose to Waite's

In divination, one gets to the point where it's all subjective. Any card may appear in a reading. Upon looking at it, it will change (in one's mind) and the interpretation  becomes clear. One hour later, the same card pops up for the next client, but upon looking at this same card, the "change" is different, and the interpretation comes out slightly different.

 
Yes to this, this is exactly my experience, and different aspects / parts of the card can be more apparent than others. And also, interpretations are often to do with the cards around it, and they 'change' collectively too - they tell a different 'story' depending on placement and in relation to each other.

For me, the stock divinatory meanings (of which I still have much to learn consciously) are the 'foundation', sometimes just 'suggestions' and I find collectively and individually they tend to tell their own story in a layout before I even get to the 'divinatory' meaning of each card.

Thoth allows more space for my subconscious to get involved - precisely because of the abstractedness - and the readings I do where I just allow the 'story' to pop into consciousness and before I process the reading through my conscious brain are always the most accurate - and helpful to whoever I'm reading for (though it doesn't often make sense to me).

(and apols, haven't worked out how to multi-quote yet - that was my next task before the implosion of my intro thread and my withdrawal to occasional lurking mode)

"@dom  ...but situations involve the external also.   It's not a case of one deck is a lie and the other isn't."

For me, it's not that Thoth only gives the internal and Waite the external, it's not an either / or case for me, as I said, both have their uses - and aren't necessarily separate vectors. There is just different 'reflections' for each pack, and Thoth allows more space for my subconscious to get involved and come through.

I think they are beautifully crafted in that respect, but it depends how you work. I prefer Morgan Greer to Waite as a starter pack, as while heavily 'story pictured' the colours evoke a lot more in the subconscious for me, and I try to 'listen' and communicate with that part of me a lot more than my conscious brain (and not only for readings). With a more 'complete' story per card, there is less space for my subconscious to be apparent in.

 

 


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Michael Staley
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I never used to take much notice of the Minor Arcana, being for many years the sort of chap that focuses on the Atus, pretty much to the exclusion of the rest of the pack. However, in the last couple of years I have been involved in magical workings with colleagues that involves the drawing of three cards as an oracle. We discuss the cards after the working. Obviously the Minor Arcana cards crop up, and it fascinates me how much wealth of detail there is in those cards. I don't use other decks, so can't comment on the "relatively" or "comparatively" aspect of this thread. I did hang out with the Aquarian Tarot for a while in the early 1970s, and have a passing acquaintance with some of the cards drawn by Pamela Coleman Smith, but my real interest is in the Thoth deck.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @shiva

they tell a different 'story' depending on placement and in relation to each other.

What is happening here is that we are doing subjective readings, telling it like we see it ... in relation to anoyher person (or even one's self).

The cards do not change; our perception of the cards changes according to the querant's state of affairs. (Querent? Queerant? Koran-t? - The person who's getting the reading!).

So we should be able to (eventually) put the cards aside and simply read any situation without an intermediary like a deck, a ball, a chart, or a coin to flip.

Here is a sample curriculum (modeled after the high holy hierarchy of degrees ...

Student. Let him (or her) read the Book and look at the Cards.

0*. Let him do many readings on himself or others, looking up the meaning of the cards in the book and reading the "answers" to the inquirer.

I*. Let him set aside the book (having memorized the whole thing), relying on the symbols and numbers embedded in the cards to give a deeper meaning.

II*. Let him withdraw his mentat from the process and simply look at the card and see the story.

III*. Let him retire his deck to the bookshelf repository, merely looking at, or thinking about, a person or situation.

This completes the curriculum. As we know (or should), there are but three grades in Masonry and Thelema. Some brave souls, or witless nits, may pass on to the secretive ...

4*. Let him abandon all interpretations, readings, conjectures, and prophecies, abiding in that state where all is apparent and it's best to keep the mouth shut ... while maintaining a subtle rhythm of pranayama without holding the prana.

Posted by: @michael-staley

I never used to take much notice of the Minor Arcana, being for many years the sort of chap that focuses on the Atus

I went through that phase; I would venture that this approach is common to those who are looking for The Path. Those who are looking for the lesser siddhi of divination (foremostly featuring "Does he/she love me?" or "Where's the money?"), may be more interested in the whole deck, not paying special attention to the Atu.

Posted by: @michael-staley

but my real interest is in the Thoth deck.

Why, that is simply appalling!


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @shiva

Why, that is simply appalling!

Simply? Not comparatively or even relatively?


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Shiva
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Posted by: @michael-staley

Simply? Not comparatively or even relatively?

No. It's best to keep it simple. Let me explain the matter, simply ...

1. Dom started this thread with the observation that AC's littler arcanum was appalling (in comparative reference to other decks).

2. Several other people replied with relatively, comparatively coherent responses wherein they all gave a relatively clear thumbs-up to the Thoth works.

3. Thus, nobody agrees with Dom, and we are simply discussing the relative merits and demerits of comparative cardology.

As noted in the Discrepancies thread, any concept can be divided into three, and those three (listed above) can be resolved back into one word, "appalling," which has been demonstrated to be untrue, thus it is the secret key: Nothing.

By thus keeping it simple, we can look in the rear-view mirror and see how we could have avoided all this nonsense and simply said Nothing. But that would not be social, and this is The Aleister Crowley Society, after all, where member are expected to socialize.

So we compare relative values in order to not stop the thread by saying, "WTF?" and going into hermitdom.


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Tiger
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image

“ The perfect agent,
patient,
able to receive and transmit
without being affected;
the watery part of water,
reception and reflection
with infinite subtlety
reflecting the observer,
in great perfection.
Distorted refracted
dreaminess, illusion and tranquility,
the disposition of impact and impression.
Enthroned upon still water,
robed in and veiled
by endless curves of light,
she bears a shell-like cup
from which issues a crayfish,
and she bears also
the Lotus of Isis,
of the Great Mother. “
The Book of Thoth pg 157


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Shiva
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I remember The Queen of Cups, who was the result card in my reading that determined a certain critical adventure that lasted for two years.

Tiger, you have now shifted to the Court cards, which is a group of horses of a different order and magnitude. When viewing any card, here is my initial prsumption ...

The lesser arcana are different aspects of the persona - each card represents one of the 4 elements  operating in one of the ten sephiroth. 

The court cards represent other people, or forces. Ideally, one court card has been previously selected as the queerant, so there are 15 possibilities left.

The Atu are archetypal forces. They are universal. After studying the Atu in reference to seeing them at work in people's lives, you can see them at work on your Walmart shopping trip or your trip to the zoo.

Also, we study the Atu with care as they depict the qualities of The Paths. Since The Paths essentially represent The Tasks of The Grades, anyone who is looking at climbing the ladder, will find great assistance.


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Tiger
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@Shiva
Lets us hear about
the reading that determined a certain critical adventure that lasted for two years.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva

Well, of course they're abstract.

Posted by: @mzezz

There is almost too much a 'story' to Waite's pictorial representations for me, there is not as much 'work' to be done in my subconscious.

and

@Tiger

Let me clarify with a real-world example from this Tarot Blog (even if it's made up it doesn't matter for the points in my argument).   Here's the link; 

Tarot Workout: the Fool, Reversed – Present Day Tarot Blog (wordpress.com)

A lady named Georgie went to a reader for help and advice about the following situation; I am stuck in involuntary retirement. My love life is nonexistent. And on top of it all, there are these annoying people in my condo’s Home Owners Association who have decided I’m the Devil. It’s like I’m living the ‘Friends’ theme song, without the chirpy chorus.”

Ok so there was a 4 card spread done for her as follows;

 

Card 1 = Central issue

Card 2 = Obstacle

Card 3 = Obstacle

Card 4 = Message from the Universe.

 

The following cards were involved;

Card 1: The Fool, reversed

Card 2: Ace of Pentacles

Card 3: 6 of Pentacles

Card 4: 8 of Wands, reversed

Compare and contrast Waite's and Crowley's Card 3;

 

pentacles aew

 

 

pentacles ac

...so Georgie would look at Crowley's card and probably be like.......... .dafuck?

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @tiger

Lets us hear about
the reading that determined a certain critical adventure

[quote][from memory][might posibly be paraphrased] ...

"Tarot says go to Binah, the Queen of Cups."

This quote is taken from the actual written words that are re-printed in Crossing the Abyss, which is an appendix in (I think) Insude the Law.


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RuneLogIX
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Posted by: @dom

...so Georgie would look at Crowley's card and probably be like.......... .dafuck?

 

 

The answer is clearly elucidated in Human, All Too Human. Really this is most self-explanatory. 

And since you are too dense to tell, that is a joke.

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix
Posted by: @dom

...so Georgie would look at Crowley's card and probably be like.......... .dafuck?

 

 

The answer is clearly elucidated in Human, All Too Human. Really this is most self-explanatory. 

And since you are too dense to tell, that is a joke.

Are you still a racist?

 

That is,

On page 3 of this thread here;  

Do Communists, Anarchists and Leftists ‘fear money’? – Thelema – LAShTAL.COM Forum 

our friend Runelogix (who hates 'binary responses')  had stated (as documented by me in my post @ 

The people of a nation on a whole are children and if they are not cared for, nurtured, and cared for to behave in beneficial ways you have the exact kind of dysfunction you see among a large percentage of black Americans: complete anti-social breakdown and an inevitable mass incarceration for societies protection from out of control people. The last thing these people need is more fentanyl. The people without discipline are no better than slaves.

In the subsequent post I asked "Why single out 'the black Americans' in your argument as oppose to white or any other colour?" and he answered; "  Because statistics lives matter."

...

 

I don't want to converse with racists thanks so do not get involved in 'my' discussions.  Thanks. 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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RuneLogIX
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@dom Straw man, meet my heel!

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @runelogix

@dom Straw man, meet my heel!

Only if you reach at least  $15 total annual profits on your bitcoin ventures. 

 

Anyway, back to the thread for me.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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@dom
We might be in agreement here
i see you look at the card and say da fuck or even a human with scales handing out six pence.

Now Georgia on the other hand might
see colors that pass through the clamor of the modes of discourse.

Gentle blushes and glows of upwelling moon yellow, salmon pink and amber
a harmony of profusion moving transfiguring inner brightness,
a favorable light increasing a dawn of awakening,
the luster of day breaking through upon the throne of the earth,
a pharaohs dream, king Solomon’s treasure,
hexagrams of mutual permeation interpenetrating merging,
competent ingenious thoughtful steady balanced diligent concentration,
a steady purposefulness unfolding upwelling in bloom,
of tangible productive results,
a formula of success,
the discipline of saturn,
the openness and flexibility of jupiter,
heart and meaning of venus,
the communication of mercury,
reflection of the moon,
the great energy of mars,
brought to bear
from within the depths expanding and manifesting out,
the flow of charm and subtleties merged with deliberate work,
a picture of the deep inner ability to integrate and synthesize, unfold and open success.

image

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Shiva
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Posted by: @tiger

We might be in agreement here

There are other people who may want to join your club. Unfortunately, I can't remember who they are, or when they exhibited dread or disgust with the Thoth cards, so I can't refer them directly to you in order to collect the bounty. I think dom mentioned $15 per referral (per year). But, listen here, I can tell you what they did ...

They exhibited dread or disgust with the Thoth cards

I think "creepy" might have been mentioned. Their auric field (astral level) took an "S" shaped curve with a spiral twist. Anybody (who could see) could see their subconscious writhing in response to some unfathomable dread.

In other words, these people were neurotically repelled by some symbol, color, or configuration in one or more cards. It was obvious that they had some hidden complex that was being evoked for review, and possible control, but no, the horror was too firmly repressed ... and so they wiggled (inside, maybe outside) and expressed their disdain.

I suggest you get a group of similar, like-minded folks together and offer libationary strangeness. Then offer a show, a 3D holographic projection of all the creepy cards. I would also recommend running a video/audio recording device ... the scientists will need all the evidence they can get.

Realistically speaking, some of the cards do offer a view of potential disharmony ...

image

 

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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@Tiger

 

Take this other example;

Why is my partner unkind to me?: Sample Tarot Reading Online (easy-tarot.net)

 

A case study

A man and his male partner were getting on just fine until they moved in together. Our questioner is wondering if this is what made his partner tetchy and rude. Or could it be the pressure of work, where a competitor for promotion is trying to get him fired? Or perhaps it is the custody battle he is entering into with his ex wife? The Three of Wands and Eight of Swords reveal patterns of decision making and choice. The Tarot cards seem to be saying it is external pressures that are affecting the partner's behavior, rather than anything the questioner has done.

Click on the 'Next card' button to cycle through each of the cards.

  • 1      CAUSES:
  • 2     NOW: 
  • 3      OUTCOME:
  • 4      ADVICE: 

Waite's deck;

CAUSES

 

                                

NOW

OUTCOME

 

ADVICE

 

Crowley's deck;

NOW

3 wands

OUTCOME

3 of cups thoth

 

ADVICE

 

8ofswords interference

 

Actually I'm coming around to your way of thinking of this but how would you determine that the last card is to do specifically with an external situation? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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wellreadwellbred
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Shiva: "... for studying the arcane mysteries, the Thoth deck is superior." 

 

Me think that The Tarot of Ceremonial Magic Deck by Lon Milo DuQuette, is the most "self-explanatory" and userfriendly Tarot Deck ".... for for studying the arcane mysteries":

"Comments: The author, Lon Milo DuQuette, is one of the foremost magicians alive today. He has packed these cards with many levels of symbols and has interconnected the cards symbolically on many other levels. The small booklet included with the deck is a good introduction to the many complexities.

Outwardly this is a traditional tarot: The Majors, the minors, the face cards (King, Queen, Prince, Princess), the suits (cups, wands, swords, disks), are what you'd expect.

Quoting the author, "What I have simply done is to accurately place pertinent data relating to Astrology & the two most widely practiced varieties of Qabalah-based Magick, Enochian Evocation and Goetia, on the appropriate Tarot cards themselves. There is no limit to the magical, and divinatory applications of this deck."

This is not the place to go into a discussion of Qabalistic magic, but these cards will be richly rewarding to those who practice these rites."  ( Source: http://www.astroamerica.com/t-mage.html )

 

"Illustrator:     DuQuette, Lon Milo
Creator:    DuQuette, Lon
Publication Date:     1994
Publisher:     U.S.Games Systems, Stamford, CT U.S.
Category: American / U.S. Games
# Cards:     78
Edition Info:    Deck + book

Notes:Suits = Disks, Cups, Swords, Wands
Court = Princess, Prince, Queen, King
Minors illustrated"        ( Source: https://thelilystonequarry.com/ceremonial-magick/  )

 

On its Minor Arcana suit cards, pertaining to Coins or Pentacles, it does instead use the term Disks:

https://enciclopediadeitarocchi.com/tarot-of-ceremonial-magick/21/

(In the hyperlink above, you can by pressing the "buttons" marked "< Indietro" (= Back) and "Successivo >" (= Following ) , brows through the deck. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

how would you determine that the last card is to do specifically with an external situation? 

The last card in most spreads is usually called "The Result." In a simple three-card draw [past-present-future], the third [last] card is "The Future." which is much the same as a result. In fact, one could simply draw just one card, and if read as the result/outcome/future, one could cut the reading short and get right to the answer; this method has been tried and approved.

But the nature of the interpretation of the last card standing or drawn, whether is is an external situation or an internal dilemma would be determined by the nature of the question and the [enlightened] insight of the reader.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Me think that The Tarot of Ceremonial Magic Deck by Lon Milo DuQuette, is the most "self-explanatory" and userfriendly Tarot Deck ".... for for studying the arcane mysteries":

I haven't seen that deck.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

The author, Lon Milo DuQuette, is one of the foremost magicians alive today.

Oh?

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Publication Date:     1994

I'm surprised I never saw this deck. I was still into cards and books in '94, and for a while after that. I never saw it or heard it mentioned. I just looked online at his Death (XIII) card. I was not impressed. Sorry.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

it does instead use the term Disks

Coins, pentacles, disks (I think one deck uses "diamonds"): These have all been the same thing for a long time.

Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

brows through the deck. 

I did this a bit. Sorry, still not impressed.

 


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RuneLogIX
(@runelogix)
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@dom I completely understand your daft appreciation of 9900% profits. Have a nice day!!

In Prophetes Veritas Venit. Quod ambulas cum Thelema et Agape est semper fidelis pietas.


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kidneyhawk
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I will agree with Shiva. The DuQuette Tarot is...um...well, it ain't exactly Lady Frieda Harris.

 

The Coleman designs? I feel the designs convey mystery through archetypal images. They aren't quick and easy stories for mundane concerns. Waite would certainly hold this view as he regarded the Tarot, ultimately, as a Pictorial Key to the Sanctuary of the Gnosis. This was my first Tarot deck and its retains its impact on my psyche.

 

Harris remains one of the most significant Tarot artists of all time. Her images are gorgeous, visionary and arcane. Regarding the so-called “Minor Arcana,” one need only imagine themselves projected into the cards, beholding the designs as if in a vision. They will appear no less significant than the “Greater” Arcana.

 

I have drawn and painted several decks myself. The accompanying booklets acknowledge the resonant influence of Harris and Coleman. These two and the artist of the Marseilles Tarot are, for myself, something of a Holy Trinity in the history of the Tarot.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

it ain't exactly Lady Frieda Harris.

It reminds me of the pictures I drew in first grade. I will give it credit for arranging various do-dads (astro, enochian, etc), but this is an olde trick. I knew a few folks who had a deck (Rider-Arthwaite probably), and the made little tiny notes on it, either columns from 777 or short sentences about the the good and the bad message (from some book).

Well, step 1 is laying out the cards and opening the book when you don't know what something means. Step 2 is usually remembering what the book says (because you've looked it up enough times). But some people don't remember well, or they have memory disorders (same thing), so they make "cheat notes" on their cards. The DuQuette Tarot is for these people.

My memory was always good, so I looked upon these "interpretation notes" as undesirable, vandalism similar to bad graffiti.

Step 3 involves burning the book, erasing the notes, and entering the vision with some other sense (the 6th or the 7th) in order to divine the meaning.

Lon's deck would be good for Step 1, or a substitute for Step 2, but the style is not too swift for Step 3.

 


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Tiger
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@dom
“ Actually I'm coming around to your way of thinking of this but how would you determine that the last card is to do specifically with an external situation ? “

The poor chap seems to be in a condition where he needs to slow down
not move so much.
Too much incessant buzzing about to figure out which direction to go in
while sharp blades are all around.
Wait 8 hours or 8 days, 8 months or 8 something and an opening between the sharp edges might come about .

in this case the Rider-Waite deck conveys a more tangible form to be grasped.
create your own deck or use many and pick ones that resonate.

i knew you’d come around.

Nice to know Crowley knew his blades.

Machete
https://youtu.be/sLMnO5LOBZ0

Yataghan
https://youtu.be/wTCoGqk8FUs


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wellreadwellbred
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Shiva: "... I will give it [Lon Milo DuQuette's The Tarot of Ceremonial Magick] credit for arranging various do-dads (astro, enochian, etc), but this is an olde trick."

This "olde trick" has been pulled of with a "slick" design in "The Unified Esoteric Tarot":

"The system resulted from the interconnected study of Tarot, Astrology, Numerology, The Fourth Way, Kabbalah and Alchemy, and it's based on the triune nature of everything in the universe. If someone wants to learn and understand how these things are connected, but find all these sciences complicated, with this system and Tarot deck anyone has the chance to understand learn them all together, within the Tarot system as one, integrated body of work.

The cards are also double colour coded. The cards background colour is corresponding to one of the four Elements. Red for Fire (Wands), Blue for Water (Cups), Yellow for Air (Swords) and Green for Earth (Pentacles/Disks).
Moreover, each card bears two titles, one for the straight and one for the reversed meaning of the card which facilitates the reading and interpretation of the cards substantially. Still, each card features the traditional name of the card for those who are familiar with those names, meanings and interpretations."

(Source: "Tarot Decks U[.] The Unified Esoteric Tarot" - - - https://www.cultoftarotforum.com/app.php/tarot_decks_u?start=2

 

The creator of the Tarot deck mentioned above, has also pukked of said "olde trick" with a "slick" design in "The Aquarian Hermetic Tarot":

"The Aquarian Hermetic Tarot (AHT) is the new divination tool for the Age of Aquarius, the Tarot of the New Aeon. [...]

The AHT is an advanced prediction and self-development instrument. Each card features upright and reversed keywords. Each card features the Zodiac Wheel indicating the exact position of the card. Each card features two different timing indication: one in hours and another in days. Formulating the fitting question, with this information, one can make precise predictions. Each card features the alchemical attribution of the card for which you get a complete guide in the printed mini-booklet and can easily correlate with the assigned astrological and numerological attributes. The alchemical attributions reveal the twelve stages of development on the path of transformation, the key to personal growth and enlightenment."

(Source: "Tarot Decks A[.] Aquarian Hermetic Tarot" - - - https://www.cultoftarotforum.com/app.php/tarot-decks-a?start=11 )

[www.facebook.com][403]66297022 429983791181372 1346197648561930240 n

(Above: Photo of "Aquarian Hermetic Tarot" cards.)

 

The same Tarot creator does also integrate Jungian shadow work in his The Unified Esoteric Tarot: Source: Practical Tarot Shadow work explained - - - https://tarotator.com/tag/carl-jung/

 


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wellreadwellbred
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Oooooops, correction; "The creator of the Tarot deck mentioned above, has also pulled [ not pukked] of said "olde trick" with a "slick" design in "The Aquarian Hermetic Tarot"" 🧐 


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threefold31
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Posted by: @dom

A.E.Waite's Minor Arcana are beautiful and profound representations of any socio-economic circumstance or situation or event you could care to imagine rich in symbolism and evocative.   Crowley's are in contrast just stark and devoid of description.  I don't get it, was this a rushed job?

Dwtw

The Thoth deck is done on the Marseille pattern, which has pip cards for the minor arcana. Not a rushed job - it took 4 years, most of them during the Second World War. It might well have taken four more if the minors were figurative.

 

Litlluw

O.L.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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@Dom

Interesting thread dom, thanks for starting it.

 

It is interestingly synchronicitous (sp) as i am currently navigating around my Head/Resh on path 30 trying to get to the land of Hod, (not the land of Nod) and Tarot is part of my Work.

 

I just wanted to add some random Data *robot beeps*

The highest path cards near Kether are the Magus/Juggler, The Fool, The Empress. 

@Shiva

The cards can be linked to the 4 Worlds and the 4 Senses and elements as well.

Atziluth Sight Fire seems to link to the higher cards mentioned, while

Briah Taste Water seems to link to cards like The Lovers, Emperor, High Priestess, Heirophant, Lust, Hanged Man and Chariot. 

Yetzirah Smell Air seems to be linked to such cards as Devil, Tower, Death, Star.

Assiah  Hearing Earth seems to be linked to such cards as Aeon, Moon.

 

Correct me of course if I be wrong. 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Oooooops, correction; "The creator of the Tarot deck mentioned above, has also pulled [ not pukked] of said "olde trick" with a "slick" design in "The Aquarian Hermetic Tarot"" 🧐 

A rare two- lines post. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @christibrany

@Dom

Interesting thread dom, thanks for starting it.

 

Thanks I'm also trying to keep it OT in terms of Tarot readings.

 

 

 

A.E.Waite's Minor Arcana are beautiful and profound representations of any socio-economic circumstance or situation or event you could care to imagine rich in symbolism and evocative.   Crowley's are in contrast just stark and devoid of description.

 

so we're not doing a 'rising on the planes' fest or the like. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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christibrany
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Posted by: @dom
Posted by: @christibrany

@Dom

Interesting thread dom, thanks for starting it.

 

 

so we're not doing a 'rising on the planes' fest or the like. 

Pardon but what does this mean?


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

Pardon but what does this mean?

No pardons today. You have acquired significant karmic penalty for not understanding.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @dom

so we're not doing a 'rising on the planes' fest or the like.

I was under the impression that “rising on the planes” was an individual experience. How can there be a “fest?”

 

"Or the like" implies the same thing: i.e. a "fest" which I have never heard of. Do people do "Rising on the Planes" parties? Kind of like Gender Reveal Parties where people blow themselves up? 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

How can there be a “fest?”

The guru measures your highest height you attained
before you stop rising to fall and get de-planed.
Your highest grade is then thoroughly explained
and if you're lucky, you'll not be arraigned.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Do people do "Rising on the Planes" parties?

oh yeah. I can tell you a few great stories.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Kind of like Gender Reveal Parties where people blow themselves up? 

That one is beyond me. No stories.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Topic starter  

Fest. Festival, party.  Haven't you ever rose on the planes with some other? You f.ers haven't lived lol.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

Haven't you ever rose on the planes with some other?

Yes. It can be, has been, and is being, done. The test involves a pass-fail component. Eith one (in a group) gets up and sails with the flock (birds of a feather, you know) or they are huddled in a corner under the effects of a bad trip.

A further possibility of failure involves running out the door, in fear, into outside reality. These people are dangerous to themselves and, maybe, others. Bad news. Bad fail mark ... but interesting things can happen in solo depature land.


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wellreadwellbred
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Aleister Crowley might have disagreed with the creator of The Aquarian Hermetic Tarot, and the latter's claim that his "The Aquarian Hermetic Tarot" is "The Tarot of the New Aeon":

 

"The Aquarian Hermetic Tarot (AHT) is the new divination tool for the Age of Aquarius, the Tarot of the New Aeon. [...] (Source: "Tarot Decks A[.] Aquarian Hermetic Tarot" - - - https://www.cultoftarotforum.com/app.php/tarot-decks-a?start=11 )

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(Above: Photo of "Aquarian Hermetic Tarot" cards.)


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