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David Dom Lemieux
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Crowley 'lonely'?  The 'spirit of solitude' is a reference to Shelley's poem  Alastor the spirit of solitude which represents the poet's (or the magician's or the saint's) quest.  It's got nothing to do with feeling alienated and missing out because one is not married or shacked up with someone in some stultifying bourgeoise  domesticated social arrangement.   Besides 'loneliness' is a mirage a mere trick of capitalism to get men to buy all kinds of crap. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

It's got nothing to do with feeling alienated

"Solitude" is not alienated.

Alienate: To cause to become unfriendly or hostile; estrange.

Solitude is absolute self-reliance. It also refers to The Voice of the Silence. (see: Binah, Buddhic plane; Liber LXXI).

Posted by: @dom

Besides 'loneliness' is a mirage a mere trick of capitalism to get men to buy all kinds of crap. 

Politics and despairing remarks about sexual congress and marketing stratefy ... all in one paragraph. This opens you up to retorts.

Damn it, man, you've got to keep your guard up.

Several replies to several statements have been omitted ... because I cannot stand, sit, or lay down, to this fragmentary fragmentation.

Does Sex Magick work? Yes. Sometimes. "We are lucky if our magical engine is working at 50% efficiency." -AC


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David Dom Lemieux
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However Crowley's love life was messed up.... by him alone.... so yeah I see your point and that I guess was his crazy choice.   I guess you could label that all as 'loneliness' if you wish.   Fear of intimacy?  Take Rose Kelly as on example she didn't resonate with him in his quest for Aiwass.      

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @dom

Take Rose Kelly as on example she didn't resonate with him in his quest for Aiwass.

Or did not sufficiently like sexual skrying with the hotel waiter on her honeymoon, or liked it too much?


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David Dom Lemieux
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If I had a wife and I hung her upside down in a closet like the grandpa in The Munsters yes I guess there would be an intimacy issue there. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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christibrany
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All I can say to this babble is... 'Jesus Christ!?!'

 

Dom u need to do some more work.

 

Sex is what you want it to be.

You think she Rose was coerced or drugged?

Of course not.You are still buying into Demon Crowley 

 

Us humans are very deep and diverse and freaky

 

We all want to dive deep even (gasp) women.

 

 

They are humans too 

 

And yes Lovecraft had sex.


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ignant666
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Yes, it fair to say when you are having three-ways with the hotel waiters on your honeymoon, that there may well be intimacy issues.

The night i married the current wife, we repaired to a medium-nice hotel in Manhattan (perhaps named the Gramercy Park Hotel, or perhaps something else; memory is so fallible, and libel suits so dependent on the opposite) to spend our "honeymoon night".

We had been living together for some time, but i thought going back to our decrepit illegal loft in Brooklyn would be anticlimactic. We got to the room, she in her long, very tight, white dress, and me in trousers, having changed out of my wedding kilt in grandma's tartan. The key didn't work. I went down to the front desk to get one that did, she waited by the room.

When i got back, she, with a huge grin, yanked open the door of the room next door, and said "Look, amor! A orgy!" There was indeed some sort of group sex taking place in the suite next door involving several naked men, and many women. They invited us in, but we declined. We were still up after they all went home.

Deciding how to respond to these invitations can perhaps have a considerable influence on the course of a marriage. At any rate the wife and i have been married for  more years than AC and Rose, and likely more than all AC's married years (with all wives) combined. 18 years so far.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Haha probably a bullet well dodged Ignant.   Yeah anyway we never got to Neuburg ….. actually let's not bother I think the facts have already been established hah. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

All I can say to this babble is... 'Jesus Christ!?!'

Jesus was the human vehicle. The Christ was/is the second emanation from No-Ground Level Zero. Jesus said, "I and my Father are One," thus demonstrating the union of higher & lower (Tiphareth). Then he healed a bunch of patients. Then he chased the money-changers out of the Temple. For this, the Establishment said, "Okay, you get the next degree (Binah); we call it crucifixion. This is a mythical/actual (choose one) example of the so-called "true" sexual polarity interii. That's all I can say.

Posted by: @christibrany

.You are still buying into Demon Crowley 

Demon Crowley was the human vehicle. Aiwass was/is the second emanation from No-Ground Level Zero. Crowley said said, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law," thus demonstrating the union of higher & lower (Chokmah, with a stop-over at Tiphareth). Then he initiated a bunch of disciples. Then he fought the yellow-press in writing. For this, the yellow-press said, "Okay, you get the next degree (Kether); we call it The Wickedest Man in the World. Then he died in poverty. This is a mythical/actual (choose one) example of the so-called "true" sexual polarity interii. Aleister and Aiwass. That's not all I can say, but I will ... not.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @christibrany

 

We all want to dive deep even (gasp) women. 

They are humans too 

We do!  Some of us very much like diving deep!

And we are!  

 

The method outlined in the original post has had very limited usefulness for me.  Many of my explorations of sexual magick have involved using it in evocation, using it in Enochian magick, using it as a way of inducing oracular trance, or using it in sigil magick. I've also used it as a form of meditation for accessing transcendent states of consciousness, and you know from another thread I've performed ritualized acts of personal transgression. I've done all of these as the main operator and as partner.   

All of those focused on using altered states of consciousness, though. I don't doubt the "official" OTO approach's effectiveness for some, but from my personal experience I haven't found it as useful. 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @christibrany

 

We all want to dive deep even (gasp) women. 

They are humans too 

We do!  Some of us very much like diving deep!

And we are!  

 

The method outlined in the original post has had very limited usefulness for me.  Many of my explorations of sexual magick have involved using it in evocation, using it in Enochian magick, using it as a way of inducing oracular trance, or using it in sigil magick. I've also used it as a form of meditation for accessing transcendent states of consciousness, and you know from another thread I've performed ritualized acts of personal transgression. I've done all of these as the main operator and as partner.   

All of those focused on using altered states of consciousness, though. I don't doubt the "official" OTO approach's effectiveness for some, but from my personal experience I haven't found it as useful. 

I was thinking of referring you to this thread.   Don't you think that your/anyone's preoccupation with "sex magic" is just sublimation and repression i.e a  defence mechanism?  Call it for what it is; just  SEX!

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Call it for what it is; just  SEX!

Call it for what it is: just MAGICK!

"Every intentional act is a magical act" - ring any bells?

 

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Call it for what it is; just  SEX!

Call it for what it is: just MAGICK!

"Every intentional act is a magical act" - ring any bells?

 

 

Intentional act yes.  Do you know what a defence mechanism is?  Do you know what sublimation is?  They are not intentional acts as such.   I know that we all kinda love Crowley here but let's be real he was  a head case.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Intentional act yes.  Do you know what a defence mechanism is?  Do you know what sublimation is?  They are not intentional acts as such. 

To what extent is any act an intentional act - as opposed to another link in an infinite chain of cause and effect - if it comes to that?

Free will is an assumption, an hypothesis that cannot be tested.


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I was thinking of referring you to this thread.   Don't you think that your/anyone's preoccupation with "sex magic" is just sublimation and repression i.e a  defence mechanism?  Call it for what it is; just  SEX!

Thank you for thinking of me.

I wouldn't call it a preoccupation, it's one tool of many that I use, just one that works particularly well for me in some areas. I wouldn't call it sublimation in the sense that you mean. I have no issues with sex, and sex magick for me is not just a way to justify something similar to a bdsm scene, though some people definitely do that.  If I want sex, I have sex.  If I want to accomplish something with sex, I do sex magick.  Like how if I want to dance for fun, I just dance, if I want to dance to alter my consciousness for ritual work, I trance dance. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @michael-staley

"Every intentional act is a magical act" - ring any bells?

Why, yes, I hear them clearly. But here's the (my) problem: I always thought the quote was "Every act is a magickal act." The word "intentional" makes sense, but I didn't remember it - so I looked it up in Magick in Theory and Practice (was that the right Liber?), but I could not find it, even with the "FIND" function.

"Intentional," "intent," "intend" are often used (by my hero, Deepak Chopra, MD, for one) by other authors to mean exactly what "we" mean by Will. If AC used the words "intentional act," maybe someone can point to the precise quote; this would link AC to the "intention" term and thus open up enough commentary to start a whole thread.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Do you know what a defence mechanism is?  Do you know what sublimation is?  They are not intentional acts as such. 

This is partly correct. Defense mechanisms are almost always subconscious reactions and are almost always not intentional. I use the words "almost always" because, you know, there is always (not almost) an exception to any rule.

But sublimation is one English word forthe  Hindu pratyahara (commonly called "withdrawal from the senses"), and some traditions prohibit sex, so that the sexual energy will be sublimated into spiritual enlightenment; this is an intentional practice. Not that my hero U.G. or I agree that it actually works.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I know that we all kinda love Crowley here but let's be real he was  a head case.

?   The pot, the kettle, and the black coals. Every man and every woman is a head case.

Posted by: @michael-staley

Free will is an assumption, an hypothesis that cannot be tested.

"There is no free will.

Thus have the philosophers of old argued and debated.

There is only the Divine Plan. To flow correctly with the Plan: This is the Path - This is Destiny.

Those who flow fulfill the requirements of the higher, and incur no blame nor debt.

Those who exercise the free will to pander to their personal desires incur blame and debt.

This debt has been called Karma.

Free will is not free!  It must be paid for in th long run.

Free will should be called Personal Desire in Action.

The true Path is of Gold and well lit. The light radiates from the pilgrim."

- The Book of Life (and Death), Ch 10

Posted by: @katrice

if I want to dance to alter my consciousness for ritual work, I trance dance.

You did not previously mention that you were a whirling dervish. I do not use that method. I tried, but (as in repeatedly repeated falling down in the dojo) I seem to have a loose screw in my inner ear(s) that causes common dizziness rather than "sublimation."  I guess I could always try the boogie-woogie and forego the whirling.

Note: "Sublimation" is a physical science term that describes a substance that goes from solid to gas, without experiencing the intermediate liquid state. The usual example is camphor. When applied to the psyche, it indicates a process/action wherein the lower vehicle slips into samadhi - without employing the intermediate stage of gods, the HGA, or other "bridges."

 


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @shiva

If AC used the words "intentional act," maybe someone can point to the precise quote; this would link AC to the "intention" term and thus open up enough commentary to start a whole thread.

The precise quote is "Every intentional act is a Magical Act", and it occurs in Magick in Theory and Practice (the 1929 edition), Introduction, the beginning of section III, Theorems, at the foot of page XVII.

Crowley has a footnote against this theorem which is worth quoting in this context:

"By 'intentional' I mean 'willed'. But even unintentional acts so-seeming are not truly so. Thus, breathing is an act of the Will-to-Live."


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Shiva
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Posted by: @michael-staley

it occurs in Magick in Theory and Practice ... Theorems ...

Yes, exactly so. Thank you. Therion notes that ...
'By “intentional” I mean “willed”. But even unintentional acts so seeming are not truly so. Thus, breathing is
an act of the Will to Live.'

As stated, I have no problem with this statement or its definition. "Intent" and "Will" seem to have the same meaning in current popular metaphysics. I have seen where pundits ("pun-nits") have argued that they are not the same ... but I agree with Crowley and Chopra, and I will now adjust my mind-set to include "intentional" as an intentional adjective.

Posted by: @michael-staley

Crowley has a footnote ...

Hmmm. In my digital edition, the footnote is not a footnote, but it is part of the text. No matter, the quote remains the same.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @michael-staley

it occurs in Magick in Theory and Practice ... Theorems ...

Yes, exactly so. Thank you. Therion notes that ...
'By “intentional” I mean “willed”. But even unintentional acts so seeming are not truly so. Thus, breathing is
an act of the Will to Live.'

 

I'm sure there was a 22 page thread with your old pal Los(t) on this 'every act unconscious or not is an act of Will etc'   Was Michael using that as a straw man answer to my question on defence mechanism?  Ha ironic eh?   

 

OT does 'sex magic' work?  Wouldn't that imply that 'magic works'?   Isn't it analogous to someone asking if plaice or pikes can swim without first asking if fish can swim?

 

I'm sure there's some 34 page thread somewhere on here on such a subject.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I'm sure there was a 22 page thread with your old pal Los(t) on this 'every act unconscious or not is an act of Will etc'   Was Michael using that as a straw man answer to my question on defence mechanism?

No, I wasn't. It was a straightforward riposte to your advice to Katrice concerning sex magick, but obviously you can read into it whatever you like. I don't doubt that there was a lengthy thread involving Los on the lines you describe, but I don't recall it and I doubt very much that there were vestigial echoes of it in my short riposte.

Ten out of ten for ingenuity, though.

 

 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

 

You did not previously mention that you were a whirling dervish. I do not use that method. I tried, but (as in repeatedly repeated falling down in the dojo) I seem to have a loose screw in my inner ear(s) that causes common dizziness rather than "sublimation."  I guess I could always try the boogie-woogie and forego the whirling.

Note: "Sublimation" is a physical science term that describes a substance that goes from solid to gas, without experiencing the intermediate liquid state. The usual example is camphor. When applied to the psyche, it indicates a process/action wherein the lower vehicle slips into samadhi - without employing the intermediate stage of gods, the HGA, or other "bridges."

 

 

Whirling is fun, and effective, for me, but any kind of movement, from your "boogie-woogie" to shaking to many other forms of dancing, can induce altered states, just find what works for you. 

 

And yes indeed I do know the meaning of sublimation that you mention here too. Would you also say that the classic example of sublimation of the libido in to artistic endeavors and similar concepts could be interpreted and applied as a magickal method as well? 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Was Michael using that as a straw man answer to my question on defence mechanism?  Ha ironic eh?

I don't know. It's possible, I suppose. I also suppose he will let you know.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

OT does 'sex magic' work?  Wouldn't that imply that 'magic works'?   

Not necessarily. This thread came to a more-or-less consensus that sex magic worked well for altering consciousness, but not for "getting things." I think it might work for "getting." but AC told us if it didn't work, one (or more) of the necessary parts (links or procedures) was missing.

Ignant, who is not a skeptic (like Los), but is wary of false claims, described "Magick" that works repeatedly, without fuss, performed by his wife. I have made a few descriptions (here and in print). So ...

Yes, Magick Works. Sex magic would be a sub-category that doesn't seem to work when used for material ends. Crowley is our best example: People died all over the place when in his company long enough (children, students). There is not one example of the Grand Master Baphomet authorizing the use of the Universal Medicine to save anyone.

Posted by: @michael-staley

It was a straightforward riposte to your advice to Katrice concerning sex magick, but obviously you can read into it whatever you like.

I thought you might reveal your true motivation.

Posted by: @katrice

Would you also say that the classic example of sublimation of the libido in to artistic endeavors and similar concepts could be interpreted and applied as a magickal method as well? 

In Oriental Medicine, the sexual apparatus and processes are governed by, and inherent in, the Kidney. They say Kidney - we would say "Kidneys." All creative energies reside in the kidney as well. Crowley saw no difference between sex drive and Will. The Chinese name for the kidney energy is zhi qi ("Will energy").

The Will energy is, of course, modified by the Shen (consciousness) in the Heart. So we see Will expressed in arts, sports, martial arts, and strip-joints.

PS - The Zhi Qi is limited. That is, everyone gets a certain amount of gas or propane in their tank at birth (electric models get a full battery charge) ... but the Zhi Qi circuits DO NOT accept replenishment. The Zhi lasts for a lifetime. If one uses up their fuel rapidly (almost always due to "excessive sex," then they will age faster and die sooner. If one uses (Taoist, et al) methods to preserve the fuel, they can live to 120 or 300 (depending on who you read).

So we cannot replace lost kidney energy, but we can supplement it. That would be through (Taoist, et al) methods: Herbs, acupuncture, feng shui (Chinese environment magic), proper slow and fast exercise, meditation, that sort of thing. They also practiced the same sex magick that Crowley promotes, including the secret IX*, that was published in Taoist texts without secrecy long before AC (Reuss, Kellner) made it into a "secret."

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

PS - The Zhi Qi is limited. That is, everyone gets a certain amount of gas or propane in their tank at birth (electric models get a full battery charge) ... but the Zhi Qi circuits DO NOT accept replenishment. The Zhi lasts for a lifetime. If one uses up their fuel rapidly (almost always due to "excessive sex," then they will age faster and die sooner. If one uses (Taoist, et al) methods to preserve the fuel, they can live to 120 or 300 (depending on who you read).

This would appear to be the view of Donald Trump, as well.

In his own curious way.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/05/trumps-unfitness/526677/

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

This would appear to be the view of Donald Trump

he “believed the human body was like a battery, with a finite
amount of energy, which exercise only depleted.”

Not quite. I was specifically referring to "excessive sex," and the (Taoist) remedy included "slow and fast exercise.

Just plain old excessive exercise will (first) weaken the Spleen Qi (the stuff that gives us constant muscular ability) and (second) then the muscles will build in tone and strength.

But he was expressing a similar idea. He just needs an Oriental Medical Advisor (OMA) to teach him the difference between excessive exercise and excessive sex.

"Excessive sex" is an actual, major diagnostic term. Even our Chinese professors would get cute and say, "But who is to define the term "excessive?" (Everyone would titter and giggle).

Then an initiated Taoist lady told me the truth. She said, "The Chinese characters for "excessive sex" actually and literally mean "Every night! Every night!). Set it? Moderation in all things does not include "every night sex."


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Not quite.

Shiva, I'm having some fun here with the allusion. However, I did find Trump's view of the body holding finite energy which must be spent wisely to be quite curious, indeed, when I first read of it. At first glance, it seems utterly ridiculous. Conversely, he would not seem entirely off base, either. And I don't think he takes much interest in Oriental Medicine. Perhaps, it is an intuition, a residual flickering from a former lifetime he hasn't quite worked out. 

We are all curious critters when we're not busy being God's madmen.    


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

But he was expressing a similar idea. He just needs an Oriental Medical Advisor (OMA) to teach him the difference between excessive exercise and excessive sex.

Ah-! You added to your original post as I was replying! Ergo, my double (serial) posting gets to slip through a loophole without prosecution! 

I do think exercise is very important for keeping the machine at tip top function. But that regimen will be relative to the machine. I know a former poster on these hallowed forums who was very very well versed in oriental medicine, was a professional chiropractor and a very fit fellow. He died not too long ago at a relatively young age after pushing himself at marathon levels. Massive crushing heart attack. And yet he was in training and fit as the proverbial fiddle to be handling it.

I am reminded of Neville Goddard's words when he said we die right on cue, right when we are meant to exit stage left. We don't die from this or that. We die because we die. And we are returned into the world to continue playing every role God has refracted into until we get the whole thing and the Play (one of his favorite metaphors) is over and we know ourselves as Him and Him as Us.


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Then an initiated Taoist lady told me the truth. She said, "The Chinese characters for "excessive sex" actually and literally mean "Every night! Every night!). Set it? Moderation in all things does not include "every night sex."

Every night might be a bit much. 

I do know something of Taoist sexual teachings, mostly through Mantak Chia's books. I found it interesting that he references Kenneth Grant in one of his books.  I'm not sure I completely agree with the idea of finite energy reserves but I can see it as a useful model to work from.  

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

I'm not sure I completely agree with the idea of finite energy reserves

All energies in the body are renewable. That's what we do in my line of work. Tonify the weak areas, sedate the excessive areas ... except for the kidney(s). "You cannot tonify a deficient kidney." This is known to all who take licensing exams in Oriental Medicine, in China, USA, or any country, really. The kidney energy IS the sexual process (and the Will, as Crowley told us) This is not a model. It is a medical fact. You are not required to agree. I bet you'll tend to agree when you get to the later years (it's like The End Times, but on an individual basis).

Young people, in their teens and twenties, easily perform the "every night" maneuver. Older people tend to slow down, and for most it disappears before they depart. However, there are videos of a 117-year old Taoist BaGua (a martial art) master, answering questions alongside his girlfriend with home he has intimate relations (not on-screen). He learned how to conserve his Zhi and he lived to 120.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

He learned how to conserve his Zhi and he lived to 120.

He might be a...Kidneyhawk.


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

It is a medical fact. You are not required to agree. I bet you'll tend to agree when you get to the later years (it's like The End Times, but on an individual basis).

Young people, in their teens and twenties, easily perform the "every night" maneuver. Older people tend to slow down, and for most it disappears before they depart. However, there are videos of a 117-year old Taoist BaGua (a martial art) master, answering questions alongside his girlfriend with home he has intimate relations (not on-screen). He learned how to conserve his Zhi and he lived to 120.

The body certainly winds down, I just don't know about the energy part. I don't necessarily doubt your word, though.  

I am somewhat familiar with BaGua too.  The connection with the I Ching first drew my attention to it.  120 and still going strong is impressive, though, and proof of what dedicated practice can do. Something to aspire to.   

I'm in my twenties and still think every night sounds like it might be a bit much. 😉 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

The body certainly winds down, I just don't know about the energy part. I don't necessarily doubt your word, though. 

Good. Now you have something to consider as the years go by.

Posted by: @katrice

I'm in my twenties and still think every night sounds like it might be a bit much.

There are people in their 40s and 50s who use Viagra (TM) to keep the system going. This is like "Life Support," except it's for a particular function. They are depleting their kidney energy even faster (than what was happening naturally). Anyway, does the so-called sex magic work?

Yes for altered states, no for influencing external reality. Although I hold a formal IX*, I/we have rarely used it for external fiddling. I think I caught an actual result, but an Abramelin talisman was involved, and that alone seems to have more effect when one is backed into a corner. What am I talking about? This ...

"One particular ceremony was held, the nature of which was not of the style to which the Lodge had become accustomed.

Capricornus decided that it had now became necessary to strike out magically in self-defense and that task was delegated (of course) to me. I thereupon reluctantly set forth a magickal current of destruction aimed at the prime movers of the inquisition. It took some time, but they all, without exception, fell into disgrace.

[Inset] Note: The district attorney was heard to say. "There goes my Judgeship!"

This operation involved the business cards of the specific, identifiable leaders of the small army that was pursuing us. Members were asked to visit Blythe and obtain any cards that we did not already have in our possession.

Have you heard of the magickal link? Here we gathered several of them.

Please note that Grady McMurtry was not on the list of invitations to this event as he had not yet become a "player" in this game. He was not considered to be an enemy.

It was not until 2007 that I learned that it was he who gave up our location in Mexico to the F.B.I. We had always incorrectly suspected that one of our members had been tailed "south of the border," but this was not the case.

Inset] Note: They never caught us.

A particular Abramelin talisman was selected and removed from the Crowley book that held these little powerhouses. It was one of those that "caused confusion in the minds of one's enemies," or words to that effect.

A fully ceremonial [IX*] application of this talisman to the various links was enacted.

Please note that it was right about this time that the disinformation and confusion started. One might actually be able to see how a talisman of this nature could play a major role in creating the many erroneous myths of Solar Lodge.

Since I was the one who wielded that talisman, letting the genie out of the bottle so to speak, I guess it's only fair that I get to tell the first-hand story of how it really happened. Then, with the genie once again in his bottle, we can all take a mental rest.

- Inside Solar Lodge - Behind the Veil

There are a few other tales like this one (above), but not so dramatic. I think I have confessed and recounted all of them in Outside Solar Lodge - Inside the Law. The point is, I have examples of IX* work that was done to adjust outer situations. So, yes, it works. But with Abramelin the Mage's talismanic support, who can say "Yes, it works" when the talismans alone were known to do the job. 

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Anyway, does the so-called sex magic work?

Yes for altered states, no for influencing external reality.

Khabs. Khu. What is the difference between "altered states" and "external reality?"

THAT is the bridge to cross.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

THAT is the bridge to cross.

Yes, theoretically, an altered state should be able to adjust external reality. Sex is not necessary. However, it depends on what kind of altered state and how it's applied.

Many people consider an alcoholic state to be altered (which it is), but rarely do they adjust their environment (magically). I understand what you mean when you say what's the difference, but most folks see a big difference.


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Sanguine Chuck
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Posted by: @shiva

PS - The Zhi Qi is limited. That is, everyone gets a certain amount of gas or propane in their tank at birth (electric models get a full battery charge) ... but the Zhi Qi circuits DO NOT accept replenishment. The Zhi lasts for a lifetime. If one uses up their fuel rapidly (almost always due to "excessive sex," then they will age faster and die sooner. If one uses (Taoist, et al) methods to preserve the fuel, they can live to 120 or 300 (depending on who you read).

When it comes to mixing the sexual energy with devotional practice/spirituality, I've discovered the Taoist alchemies to have the most profound effects on the physical body in terms of transmutation.

My early teacher explained to me that (in relationship to Taoist martial arts or alchemy) the sexual practice is used to accelerate physical development very very fast.

In my case, I noticed clear changes within 48 hours in my bones and joints.

However, a warning, sometimes this can be too powerful without proper guidance (which I never seem to have lol) and it took me two years and assistance from a Qi Kung master to recalibrate my nervous system, this was over 15 years ago. I opened too many doors too quickly, I really don't recommend that. While I got lucky and was okay, it didn't need to necessarily work out that way.

More recently, I find the sexual arts within Tibetan Buddhism and BonPo to be the most powerful, in terms of "magick" or creating reality, where as the sexual energy unites with "warm heart" of compassion. In the deeper tantras, all buddhas, male and female, copulate and this is the "bliss" of absolute reality. To imagine a deity and then imagine the deity is your sexual consort, arriving at bliss.

This to me has been the most powerful and the most beautiful of all experiences, sexual energy moved into the compassion of the heart/mind. 🤩 🤩 🤩 

As the "clear light of the void" is experienced for a brief second during orgasm, arriving "close to the orgasm" and staying put there continually appears to be a place ripe for discovery.

I never had much success with Crowley's system, and felt it was incomplete, but it worked amazing for viral marketing Thelema 🙂

Western "Karizza" and the ideas of Paschal Beverly Randolph I think may offer more success for westerners than Crowley's system, in my humble opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal_Beverly_Randolph

All in all, the formula appears to be change the body, change the mind, regardless of systems.

When "sex yoga" or "sex magick" works, it works BIG. and it can be TOO BIG, so caution is advised.

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Good. Now you have something to consider as the years go by.

Yes for altered states, no for influencing external reality. Although I hold a formal IX*, I/we have rarely used it for external fiddling. I think I caught an actual result, but an Abramelin talisman was involved, and that alone seems to have more effect when one is backed into a corner.

 

I like to take multiple viewpoints in to account, compare and contrast, draw my own conclusions, and keep myself open to new perspectives as I go, so your words are taken in to account.  

 

Thank you for the story. Very interesting and impressive!  I have to say that for me most of my successes with sex magick have involved combining it with other techniques or using other approaches, but from my experience, they type that is the main topic here hasn't worked as well for me. 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

THAT is the bridge to cross.

Michael Kelly theorizes this as part of the work of the Ipissimus.

Posted by: @shiva

Yes, theoretically, an altered state should be able to adjust external reality. Sex is not necessary. However, it depends on what kind of altered state and how it's applied.

Sex is not necessary, but it still makes for a powerful tool for some. And it does depend on what kind of altered state and how it's applied, from my experience.

Many people consider an alcoholic state to be altered 

I know some Dionysus devotees.  😀 

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

As the "clear light of the void" is experienced for a brief second during orgasm, arriving "close to the orgasm" and staying put there continually appears to be a place ripe for discovery.

I never had much success with Crowley's system, and felt it was incomplete, but it worked amazing for viral marketing Thelema 🙂

Western "Karizza" and the ideas of Paschal Beverly Randolph I think may offer more success for westerners than Crowley's system, in my humble opinion.

When "sex yoga" or "sex magick" works, it works BIG. and it can be TOO BIG, so caution is advised.

What experience I've had of Taoist practice makes me agree that it can be extremely powerful. It's the most efficient system I've found for energy work, and the effects extend to body and mind, even if not intended at first.   I admit I don't have a lot of experience with Tibetan Buddhism and BonPo yet. 

I also agree that Randolph may offer more than Crowley. "Will reigns Omnipotent; Love lieth at the Foundation"  He was also a big influence on Maria de Naglowska and on Franz Bardon. 

And I completely agree with you about sex magick working BIG, and TOO BIG if you're not careful. 


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daathielabaddon
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@katrice I used to pull women out of their body, just by my presence alone, and I can feel them even at a distance, across the internet. I can feel their orgasm build and release as heat, just like the "Is it hot in here..." except I literally feel them. I feel it if a woman blushes. Pulling them out of their body isn't intentional, but it is an altered state and they may temporarily black out. It triggers certain circuits/reactions such as fear and panic. I'm desired yet a threat, a "good-bad" thing. Fight, flight, freeze. Fear and excitement are two sides of the same emotion. As a guy in an old French movie said, "A woman is all half-measures." I saw one woman's astral body take a step out of her physical body toward me before snapping back inside. Another woman and I were sitting across from each other when I saw something like the Dolly zoom effect. Another woman and I were sitting across from each other when our voices suddenly sounded like we were inside a hollow tube. Yet another time, my girlfriend and I were making love and she said afterward that I turned into "a golden halo of light." We laughed for about a solid hour, blissed out.

A couple of years ago, I was watching a video of a lecture being given by Antero Alli on YouTube and realized I was having a kundalini response, which is likely how I'm able to do all of that. I'd had a NDE and later, an experience that involved ascending between Chokmah and Binah. There was no light at the end of the tunnel - I was the light.

I no longer have sex. Haven't for a decade. It means something completely different to most people than it does to me. Most people operate almost entirely through the mammalian and reptilian systems of the brain rather than the neocortex. What this means is that they're not fully human or what Timothy Leary described as "larvals." Unawakened consciousness. For me to have sex with them would be like having sex with children, and their psyches are far too convoluted for me to even begin to want to deal with. In essence, everything is sex in one form or another. The Lovers are embedded all over the Tree of Life.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @daathielabaddon

@katrice I used to pull women out of their body, just by my presence alone, and I can feel them even at a distance, across the internet. I can feel their orgasm build and release as heat, just like the "Is it hot in here..." except I literally feel them. I feel it if a woman blushes. 

Hey wow!!  You can feel someone getting hot from what sort of distance are we talking about here?  What's been the furthest distance when you've done this?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Topic starter  

Very far indeed:

Posted by: @daathielabaddon

across the internet.

Tough luck for @katrice that he gas given up screwing the earth-people.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

What's been the furthest distance when you've done this?

The phrase "across the internet" was used ...

Posted by: @daathielabaddon

I can feel them even at a distance, across the internet.

... this implies that the quantum neurocircuit is in play and both time and space are of no consequence.

Posted by: @ignant666

Very far indeed:

I see that you noticed the same non-distance range.


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katrice
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Posted by: @ignant666

Very far indeed:

Tough luck for @katrice that he gas given up screwing the earth-people.

You can feel my heart breaking from here. 😉 

 

But, seriously, I'm not looking for partners, more for fellow travelers. Cohorts rather than consorts as Shiva said on another thread.  Still, that is an extremely impressive siddhi to have. @daathielabaddon, you said this may have come from a kundalini experience?   Do you think that anything in the video had anything to do with it or was that just coincidental? 


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Shiva
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In case anyone missed it (or wants to see it again), here is Master Lu with his girlfriend (7 years before he died). This is as close to a private video of Lao Tze as we can get ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60KRsvR_cU

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

In case anyone missed it (or wants to see it again), here is Master Lu with his girlfriend (7 years before he died). This is as close to a private video of Lao Tze as we can get ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60KRsvR_cU

 

Wow, even if he were only as old as he looks, this is still incredible. Thank you for sharing this.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

this is still incredible.

It's not sex magic, but our amorous Taoist is also rather proficient in BaGua (a sub-category of Kung Fu). Here's a short one ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkRSHQcT6fY

Then we better get back to sex magic and does it work?


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @katrice

this is still incredible.

It's not sex magic, but our amorous Taoist is also rather proficient in BaGua (a sub-category of Kung Fu). Here's a short one ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkRSHQcT6fY

Then we better get back to sex magic and does it work?

I know of BaGua, and its relation to the I Ching. I would like to study it some time.

 

I'm reluctant to say any magickal technique doesn't work at all, but my track record with the method that the original post refers to was unimpressive, and I've moved on to other approaches to sex magick involving altered states and raising energy, which have worked better for me.

 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @ignant666

By "AC/OTO-style 'sex magick'" or "IX working", i mean:

a) a male magician having vaginal intercourse with a female (who may not be aware that an act of magick is going on)
b) while thinking/chanting about a desired outcome in the material world (eg, money, good health, or the love of a particular person (typically not the person one is fucking)), followed by
c) consuming the combined sexual fluids after orgasm.

I do wonder if Crowley's own failures in this area came from desperation and lust of result. It seems like the most likely explanation to me. 

The hijacking the energy based on false understanding of biology theory is interesting, and could explain the approach, also taking some interpretations of Crowley's statement about sacrificing children of perfect innocence and high intelligence as possibly relating to this idea.  

 

Posted by: @ignant666

Holy Goop-Gobble

This just beat "Slut Water" as the best phrase I've seen on this site so far.

 

I'm open to the idea of sexual fluids acting as fluid condensers, in the P.B. Randolph sense.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

By "AC/OTO-style 'sex magick'" or "IX working", i mean:

You have now revealed the innermost (magical) secret of the Oriental Temple-ars, online and in public. This means people will no longer have to search the internet to find the site in .cz where they can get the same info by downloading, etc in several pages.

Now I ask you, why should I pay my dues in advance through nine degrees of ceremonial torture, when I can arrive at the central secret by reading your three short paragraphs?

Posted by: @katrice

I'm open to the idea of sexual fluids ...

So were the Taoists. Their ancient texts beat Randolph, Reuss, AC to the punch, and they made no secret of it, telling folks how to replenish their Kidney Zhi (Will & sexual energy).

 

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
 
I do wonder if Crowley's own failures in this area came from desperation and lust of result. It seems like the most likely explanation to me. 

 

Think about it, we know for sure that Crowley had a big ego.  Big egos and success in ('I wish this event would happen in my world') magic don't go too well.  The trajectory is warped for a start then it's a case of trying to force a triangular piece of wood into a round hole.      

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Sanguine Chuck
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Posted by: @katrice

I do wonder if Crowley's own failures in this area came from desperation and lust of result. It seems like the most likely explanation to me. 

The hijacking the energy based on false understanding of biology theory is interesting, and could explain the approach, also taking some interpretations of Crowley's statement about sacrificing children of perfect innocence and high intelligence as possibly relating to this idea.  

 

Some considerations for these type of operations, which are based on my own interpretations of sex yoga/tantra/magick/alchemy.

The sex act can be viewed (without a partner) as the focus of all of one's energy on the self, in principle (and without judgement) making a sexual act a selfish act.

Harmonizing sexual energy with a partner (my joy is to see your joy) puts the intention on the "other", while not "selfless", it is also not selfish, unless...

Magick/alchemy adds a "personal wish" to the equation, making it, cementing it as a selfish act.

Likely, that is the cause of "failure".

Offering the divine "pleasure" of the couple towards a higher purpose, above that of the self and other, but for the greater development of humanity, i.e. the "sacrifice" of the self joy towards the joy of union and the greater all, "may our joy be the joy of the world" may be discovered to deliver "results" back to the participants in the form of designs, ideas, creations for building that vision, whereas the "children" of the union are genius ideas and states of being outside of the sexual act that bring more union into society, transmuting highly charged erotic states of being and transmuting them into states of being filled with warm compassion in the heart.

It was really the Himalayan tantras that made this very clear for me. 

It should be noted that at orgasm, we all experience the clear light of the void for one second.

In my younger days, Crowley's "sex magick" highly appealed to my sex drive more than my spiritual drive, and that path can lead into sexual addiction and sexual obsession unless it is converted into some higher purpose. Being a great lay but just a douchebag is the easiest delusion to fall prey to.

Transmuting a global culture from one that worships division, war and violence as the social organizing and conditioning principle into a global society that worships eros and romance is, I would imagine, a nice long term strategy for such operations 🙂

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

You have now revealed the innermost (magical) secret of the Oriental Temple-ars, online and in public.  

So were the Taoists. Their ancient texts beat Randolph, Reuss, AC to the punch, and they made no secret of it, telling folks how to replenish their Kidney Zhi (Will & sexual energy).

Ignant revealed it, I just quoted it.  😉 

 

Is there a Taoist method of using them like condensers, externally?

 

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Think about it, we know for sure that Crowley had a big ego.  Big egos and success in ('I wish this event would happen in my world') magic don't go too well.  The trajectory is warped for a start then it's a case of trying to force a triangular piece of wood into a round hole. 

He had a lot of neuroses and internal conflicts.  Clearly, he was one-pointed in some areas, and not in others.

 

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Transmuting a global culture from one that worships division, war and violence as the social organizing and conditioning principle into a global society that worships eros and romance is, I would imagine, a nice long term strategy for such operations 🙂

I'd argue that "selfish" Work has its place, you can become more effective with an ordered life, and with initiatory Work, and you can accomplish more with more resources.

 

Maria de Naglowska, who I find fascinating, had similar goals.  

 

To succeed in this Work would require a lot of mundane activity in addition to magickal, and would require a lot of people working together.  I'm not objecting to the idea, I support it, but it would require a larger effort than I've seen so far. Maria failed in her time, though the Confrerie de la Flèche d'Or might have lasted longer if her followers hadn't been so dependent on her. The Horus Maat Lodge's efforts have had mixed results at best.  Getting enough people and resources together to effect change on that scale would be the first challenge. 

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

In my younger days, Crowley's "sex magick" highly appealed to my sex drive more than my spiritual drive

I want to harness my drive towards goals other than just pleasure, though I don't reject pleasure either. Indulgence can be a powerful tool when kept under control, avoiding addiction and obsession.  


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Ignant revealed it, I just quoted it.

Yes, my retorted report was to Ignant, who blew the whistle. Your quoting his revelation merely involves you in a conspiracy ... along with me, because I added further sub-revelations. Or were they pre-revelations? Yes, "pre," 'cause the Taoists came first without secrecy.

You know how AC was disturbed when the G.D. gave him a "secret" listing of the Hebrew letters with their numbers? He said the same list was on display over at the British Museum.

Then he plays the "Great Secret" of the ninth level game, while anybody who has access to the Taoist literature could skip all nine and found their own Order.

Posted by: @katrice

Is there a Taoist method of using them like condensers, externally?

Can you rephrase the question, please? Especially identifying "them," and further identifying "external condensers."

I am not a bono-fida Taoist, nor am I a Zen guy. The only details I know come from the study and practice of Oriental Medicine (Chinese version). And, of course, the texts of those traditions. I do not have the ancient Taoist texts, nor can I tell you (anyone) where to find them. I have seen one, over a decade ago. It was linked by another member here, and I verified the old guys knew what they were ideographing. My testimony is thus hearsay seesay or readsay. Maybe heresy from the viewpoint of those who protect "the secret."

 


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