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Lévi’s Doctrine and Ritual, Mikituk/Greer translation

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gurugeorge
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I just wanted to enthuse about this book, as reading it's what got me interested again in Magick and brought me back to this esteemed assembly.  I struggled through the Waite translation years ago while dutifully fulfilling the A.'.A.'. student reading curriculum requirements, but it was such a turgid, awful read that it put me right off Lévi until I read Crowley's lovely Key of the Mysteries translation much later.

I have no French so I've no idea how good and faithful a rendition it is, but it certainly reads nicely.  Anyone know how good it is? Who is Mikituk? Or Greer? (I mean from the point of view of Crowley/Thelema - have they been involved, are they known figures in these circles?)  Does anyone else love the book and want to enthuse along with me?

My re-interest in Lévi arose as a result of reading up a lot about European history recently - from the Anabaptists to the French revolution, the connections between John Dee and politics, Protestantism and the early bourgeois, Freemasonry, etc., and Lévi cropped up at the tail end of all that.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

I just wanted to enthuse about this book, as reading it's what got me interested again in Magick and brought me back to this esteemed assembly

It's one of Crowley's earlier classics. 😉

 

Posted by: @gurugeorge

I struggled through the Waite translation years ago while dutifully fulfilling the A.'.A.'. student reading curriculum requirements, but it was such a turgid, awful read that it put me right off Lévi

I've always enjoyed the Waite edition but understood from those with better French than mine (which is none) that there were issues with the translation into English.

Posted by: @gurugeorge

Anyone know how good it is?

Clearly I'm unqualified to say-but it reads very well. I'm not all the way through yet but enjoying it very much. There are some interesting differences in the read (for example: the word Waite renders as WORD is translated by Mikituk as VERB. This immediately imparts a different understanding and insight of the word).

Posted by: @gurugeorge

Does anyone else love the book and want to enthuse along with me?

Doing so! 🙂 

 


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gurugeorge
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"Crowley's earlier classic" 🙂

Yeah I was curious about "Verb" - do you know what the French word he's translating is?  I suppose it's whatever is used in French at the beginning of GJohn for Λόγος, the Stoic sense of which is the "structurey-ness" or "structuring" in a more dynamic sense, of the Universe. Etymologically connected to the Greek for tongue, if I remember correctly.

I guess the idea is of something dynamic, a creative act rather than a symbol string.  Crowley's "going," Ankh, etc.  Maybe also referring to "vibrating" magick words.

(Rustles around on Google) Oh it's "le Verbe" lol   


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

Yeah I was curious about "Verb" - do you know what the French word he's translating is?

"Verbe" is the original French word. But how does my non-French speaking self know this? It's footnoted right there in the first chapter. Which makes me wonder if you and I have the same edition of this translation! You had also asked about Greer and Mikituk. My copy has a really great Intro by Greer as well as some words from Mikituk. Mikituk's translation work was not based on any sort of comparison against Waite. In fact, he writes that he had not and did not read Waite at all during his translation of the original French text. He also did his translation work without any significant occult involvements-which he felt kept him away from any biases that may have otherwise intruded on the interpretive work.

When Levi uses the word "Verbe" it is with some reference to Jesus, the Son of God. In the footnoted instance I allude to, he speaks of "the Verb incarnate adored in his infancy by the three mages guided by a star." It's quite interesting if we replace "Word" or "Logos" in other scriptural references with "Verbe." For example John 1:1 "In the Beginning was the Word-and the Word was with God-and the Word was God." This becomes "In the Beginning was the Verbe etc." We may be reminded here of Hadit, the one who GOES as well as seeing in the Son-Sun of God that Winged Disk which is "everywhere the center."

PS-I wrote all the above in reply to your inquiry before even finishing my read of your post! I do believe we are both thinking in the same direction here!

PPS-What edition do you have? Mine is the "tarcher perigee" (Random House) version (2017). As I said, great Introductory material and loaded with footnotes.

 


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hadgigegenraum
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This is a going and most interesting thread to which the backstory of how Gurugeorge found it all wound down to Levi,and what might be some books in that story,for of course Crowley's carnation, is indelible if but his intense study of Levi.

What is going in this discussion, thanks Kidneyhawk, is that it is going on upon what is foundational, as identifying the word as a verb does affirm to me.

93

 


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kidneyhawk
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We can read Levi from various perspectives, one of which would be the prior incarnation of the Magus known to us as Aleister Crowley. Crowley felt MTP improved, corrected or took Transcendental Magic to the next level. Greer, however, sees Levi as a worthy and profound study on his own terms. I tend to view Levi from this latter perspective. What interested me about the Greer/Mikituk translation was the possibility of getting into a study of Levi with greater clarity and depth than the Waite translation had previously allowed.

 

When I first encountered Levi, I was led to believe that he wrote with “blinds” for the uninitiated and needed to be “de-coded” in places. With this particular rendition of Dogma and Ritual, I find that he is actually a very clear writer whose wisdom and insight is only “hidden” by the symbolic super-system of Cabalistic reference he employs.

 

I found it tremendously helpful to enter into a better understanding of Levi's “Astral Light” which really refers to the Anima Mundi, Prana, Ki etc. To have this perspective is much more helpful than thinking he is simply describing the “Astral Realm” with its own unique qualities of liquidity, color, form and light. Thus, we are better able to understand and experience Levi's Baphomet as 1) a symbol of the Astral Light and 2) central mystery of the Templars.


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gurugeorge
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@Kidneyhawk

Yeah I have the same edition, Kindle format.  (I only skimmed the bio bit in Greer's intro, and didn't read the translator's intro, I just leapt into the main text, which I'm about half-way through now. Doh!)  What I was curious about was the translator's rationale for using the English "Verb" instead of the more usual "Word" for Λόγος and I didn't see that explained (and I still can't see a footnote about that - leave me alone, I'm old 🙂 )

Good to know he did the translation as a "straight" translation without occult influence.  In that case, I guess his rationale was the idea you see sometimes with translators, that you don't always have to translate into idiom and that you can sometimes keep the original language word (plus he would probably have been thinking of the Latin word too).

Good Hadit/Going point!

Yeah I never really thought that we should particularly look at Levi through the Crowley lens especially.  It might be a study in itself, but I just think of it in terms of what came out of the mouth and pen of that body living then (as it were).

Very much agree re. this translation being very clear and lucid (and it's the same with Crowley's translation of the Key, so we're on the right track, we're now getting Levi as Levi!)

Yes the Astral Light/Anima Mundi thing is very good, I was getting the same sense of "aha"-ness. Also tying Imagination in with that.

(Side-track: though I might quibble with your attribution re. Prana/Ki, I think those are more related to the physical, Qi/Ki being a generalized philosophical "motivating force" in the physical realm, which gets cashed out in different ways in different realms of investigation, and which would be categorized differently in Western terms (e.g. "energy" in physics, but a rather recondite, very different way of conditioning and controlling the body+peculiar subjective sensation of magnetism in martial arts). IOW saying "Qi" is saying something very general like "Oomph" in English - "put a bit of oomph into it", "the rock transferred some of its oomph into the other rock" 🙂 For a Chinese reference, maybe Shen (Spirit) might be better?  Prana I don't know, it's tempting to equate it with Qi via the martial arts connection, and that's probably true for Chinese/Indian martial artists; but you might be right that it's more of a concept with a broader span "upwards.")


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

I might quibble with your attribution re. Prana/Ki

Gurugeorge-your point re: Prana/Ki as an analog to the Astral Light is well taken but credit where credit is due: I took that particular analogy from Greer (on page 20 of the Introduction) where he lines up the various correspondences as expressing “a subtle medium that bridges the gap between one mind and another.” He also includes Pneuma, Ruach, “the Arabs ruh, the Yoruba emi, the Iroquois orenda, and the !Kung hunter-gatherers of the Kalahari Desert, n/um.” There is a lot more commentary after this re: The Astral Light as the Magical Agent which fills and sustains the Universe.

Posted by: @gurugeorge

Also tying Imagination in with that.

I agree. Greer targets Will and Imagination as the two primary forces in Levi's work. This is also expressed in Crowley's Do What Thou Wilt. Although I have seen this shortened by other figures and groups into Do Thy Will, Crowley's precise language here implies a distinction between the Will and its "What" (which is what is to be done). There is the Essential Being and Nature (Will) and this is expressed in its Going via that "What." This factor must be envisioned (imagined) ere it can be entered into. This dynamic between Will and Imagination (which leads to Action and Manifestation) is also suggested in the multifaceted union of opposites (or Blakean "Contraries") in Levi's image of Baphomet (the Magical Agent in which this Alchemy is wrought). 

Apologies if I'm being too Verb-ose. 😉

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

though I might quibble with your attribution re. Prana/Ki, I think those are more related to the physical

Modern science has now termed Quantum energy as Scalar energy. Yes, they equate it with Ki/Qi/Chi/Prana/Orgone/Fine Matter/Ether-Aethyr, etc.  Their "definition," as far as I can tell, is - yes, what it can do physically. Hoever, the more abstract thinkers look to the heathen Chinese observations to find that it is present/active at all the other levels, plains, and spheres - but more subtle as the elevator ascends.

Posted by: @gurugeorge

Qi/Ki being a generalized philosophical "motivating force" in the physical realm

It is a "generalized" term, which encompasses various sub-forms. In Oriental Medicine, there are 28 forms of Chi at work in the body. Well, one of them ("Air Chi") is found in the air, and it does enter the body (breathing), but it gets transformed so chop-chop quick.

Chi can be a "philosophical" topic for philosophers. Let me put it this way (which I usually only do for belligerent folks, which is not you): You are invited to bring your butt down to my dojo where we can see what's what. Oh, darn - the dojo got closed for pandemic protocols in March of '20. I closed the dojo one week before the State closed everything. We'll find some other place.

Chi/Ki/Qi and Prana all mean the same thing in their respective languages. They translate directly as "breath." Tai Chi is "the great breath," sort of like Brahma. Terms like "Life Energy," "Vital Force," and so on are all English translations by English-speaking people who think "breath" does not explain anything, so they make up longer terms.

I understand this entire side-trip is in relation to "Is astral light Chi? I'm not there yet. I'm just rattling off hard definitions from science, Oriental Medicine, martial arts because your definitions were correct, but not quite humming true.

But, as I have said around here, "I am not a philosopher." (Then people laughed and made jokes. I quoted back, "Philosophy is the enemy of Magick!"). No, I am a martial artist, an Oriental doc, and I have a couple of degrees in science. Since we worked directly with Chi, several hours per day, including precise definitions [in foreign lingos - aaarrghh], that is before "we" retired, it becomes my duty to eradicate the wishee-washee notions.

The astral light and Chi are the same. There is only one Chi. One may think of the Tai Chi. All other forms of energy, light, power, consciousness are subdivisions of The Great Breath. Hadit is the source of the Tai Chi, but he does not enter into this, as he cannot be known (or properly defined) unless one is dead. Says so in the scriptures.

So if we were to quibble about it, of which I am doing a good job, all I would want out of it is the definition of astral light in terms of which sub-category it is of Chi. Preferably in heathen Chinese (pinyin mode), but longer, drawn-out, explanatory, English phrases would be acceptable for a starting point.

Posted by: @gurugeorge

saying "Qi" is saying something very general like "Oomph" in English - "put a bit of oomph into it"

This is true. But ALL (every one of them) students who put that oomph into it use physical power (weight or muscle). Without instruction and demonstration, nobody has any idea what to do.

However, you are correct when describing the Qi usage. Let me get precise: Gu Qi, Yuan Chi, Zhen Qi, Zhi Qi, Zhong Qi, etc. (These refer to Grain, Source, Will, Central, etc).

This astral light obviously refers to the astral plane and its luminescence. It might be something deeper, like Starlight). By my wreckoning, this would be the water phase of the one Chi (we call it an "element," not a phase). It would be Chi, alright - not Shen (consciousness) or Jing (substance. Aha! I have it ..  Astral Light is ...

Xin Zhi Chi

That was an awful lot of work to drag out three words in nine letters. Take it to the QBL Tribunal to decide my fate.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

“a subtle medium that bridges the gap between one mind and another.”

Yeah. It's also "between one brain and the stop-thinking" mode (you may substitute the philosophical or metaphysical term of your choice - I suggest "no-mind.")

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

the Magical Agent which fills and sustains the Universe.

The heathens call this Chi - with various spellings, dialects, and mispronunciations.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I have seen this shortened by other figures and groups into Do Thy Will

Many folks think the "thou" implies an external (or at least a praeter or a greater self) "god" whose Will we are the vehicle of. So folks are not ready to jump in and make the Bible-speak even more personal.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Apologies if I'm being too Verb-ose.

Tell it to the Tribunal. I just noted my (this) post is extra-ordinarily looonng. We must be getting excited about philosophical things. Me? I'm tired. Did you know that intense thinking (including dharana) causes the brain to use up so much Chi that the Spleen can become deficient? Then one has digestive problems (the classic stomach ulcer). I'm going to get out of this philosopher's stargate before the violent projectile vomiting begins.

Whew!

 


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gurugeorge
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@kidneyhawk 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I took that particular analogy from Greer (on page 20 of the Introduction) where he lines up the various correspondences as expressing “a subtle medium that bridges the gap between one mind and another.” He also includes Pneuma, Ruach, “the Arabs ruh, the Yoruba emi, the Iroquois orenda, and the !Kung hunter-gatherers of the Kalahari Desert, n/um.”

Hmmm.  Maybe.  That's partly why I was wondering about Greer - I mean I said I skimmed the bio bit of his intro but I also skimmed some of the rest of it, and while it's well-written, I had a slight feeling of "hmmm" about it.  I mean, e.g., has he actually lived among the Yoruba or the Iroquois or the !Kung, or is he just throwing shapes after having read some anthropology on them?  We're on fairly safe ground when we talk about Western and Middle Eastern symbolisms, even Asian to some extent, since their own literature is so rich and articulate, but bringing in a gish gallop of those other things?  Makes me a wee bit suspicious.

Love what you said in that second paragraph, spot on!


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gurugeorge
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Posted by: @shiva

One may think of the Tai Chi. 

That's "Taiji" ("Great Pole" as in tent-pole - presumably meaning "that holds up the universe," i.e. the interdependence of opposites, the "De" in Dao-De, i.e. change as such, shift of Aristotelian potential to actual, etc.) for both the symbol and the martial art, not "Taiqi," there's no such word as "Taiqi" as far as I'm aware.

Another brain dump incoming:-

I'm afraid I must insist that Qi is just a very general term. The Chinese thought that there was one "motivating force" that's reflected in various forms in various domains. Think of the symbol - steam pushing up the lid on a rice pot, IIRC.

Now as it turns out, scientists have reduced things to (something like, please correct me if I'm wrong) 4 "fields" and whatnot, which may in the end turn out to be one "field," but anything to do with "moving A from position x to position y" is waaaaay below that level, somewhere in the upper midrange, and the cashed-out version of it in the martial arts is somewhere below that, just above the brute physical.  Not muscular effort per se, obviously (i.e. not the way we haphazardly learned to move our bodies from birth, using minimal muscular effort at the extremities), but something more refined, to do with a combination or gestalt of: sufficient (relaxed) muscular force; clever leverage and skeletal alignment; subtle use of weight/gravity; internal body pressure (rice pot again, that's probably where the hint came from) and fascial tension, which can be conditioned into elasticity and toughness (and therefore "kept young," and also protect you from blows a bit) by breathing exercises (internal pressure again) and standing practices, which latter also train the Jin (shifting the Qi internally to ground visualized impending forces from all directions, as it were like a plasma globe, sort of).

The curious magnetic sensations may have something to do with a piezoelectric effect in the glial cells that are dotted throughout the fascia (which may also have something to do with the immune system, hence the purported health benefits of fascial conditioning and breathing exercises), or it may not, it may just be an accidental psychological artifact, but at any rate the magnetic thing has little to do with the martial arts side of it (unless one goes the route of considering the possibility that it's a real use of the body's faint magnetic field to feint someone else who's also suitably trained and therefore sensitive to the sensations).

The connection between Taiji and Taijiquan is that Taijiquan is big on the interdependence of opposites - for example a block is also at the same time a "store" for a "release," the Form is a constant shift between opening/releasing or storing (Kai) and closing/storing or releasing (He) the body, or parts of the body (e.g. one side opens while the other closes).  Form is a slow, gentle Qi-Jin conditioning (and of course a mnemonic for the techniques), though that seems to be a peculiarity of Taiji (which blends Qigong with MA in the solo training), other Qi-using MA tend to use static Qigong/conditioning exercises and get straight to the bit with fast forms and technique (although Baguazhang also uses slow Form training similar to Taiji's IIRC).

I only have a teensy-weensy bit of experience in this, and not properly to a martial level (that would require practicing something like 6-8 hours a day, like a musician, and with partners around), but I've dabbled enough with Qigong and Taiji in my time to have a foot in the door re. just how different the subjective feeling (a delicate feeling of the body moving itself) and objective results (small effort, big result) are of the "Qi-Jin way" of moving the body.

Fight me 🙂

(Gaah, I knew I shouldn't have quibbled with that correspondence, poor old Levi is now fast disappearing in the rearview mirror. 🙂 )

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

That's "Taiji" ("Great Pole" as in tent-pole

What great gear-shifting into different concepts and dialects.

Tai = "Great, Supreme, Ultimate"

Chi = "Breath" B.C.

(B.C. = before changes)

Now (actually back then") the heathen Chinese Communists, working hard for the hard-working Chinese people, took it into their minds to think, "We need a new Chinese to English writing and pronouncing system." So they invented pinyin, which altered the landscape of communication. Some examples ...

OLD SYSTEM                   NEW SYSTEM
Wade-Giles (wei-jiao)       Pinyin

Tao                                    Dao

Ching                               Jing

Peiking                            Beijing

Tai Chi                            Taiji

It is possible that I am missing, misinterpreting, or mad, but You lost me with the great lingam pole. Chi = Ji, and I never heard about the pole from my Chinese mentors. Saladin speaks of the pole in the first degree, and I teach the internal pole as "the line" (vertical axis) in budo, but the great pole is a new one. Maybe you can straighten out my polar dilemma.

Posted by: @gurugeorge

I'm afraid I must insist that Qi is just a very general term.

Okay. Do what thou insisteth ...

However, I agree completely with you. That is why I anally listed several forms of refined, defined Chi.

Oh, by the way. Having been taught pinyin under duress and penalty of failure, I find it irritating. I believe it is some form of heathen Communist mind-control designed to split our minds (schizo-phrenia). In the presence of Japanese folks, I must say KI. But if they're Chines, I must say CHI, but spell it QI.   ?

WTF? QI in English is pronounced "kwee" or just plain "Ki." But in professional work, I must spell it "Qi," or face cultural-incorrectness. I note that you are familiar with the various twists and turns, but you prefer the upgraded version ("Tao De").

Posted by: @gurugeorge

Now as it turns out, scientists have reduced things to (something like, please correct me if I'm wrong) 4 "fields"

And there are 4 worlds in QBL. Surely, they can be correlated?

Posted by: @gurugeorge

I've dabbled enough with Qigong and Taiji in my time to have a foot in the door re. just how different the subjective feeling (a delicate feeling of the body moving itself) and objective results (small effort, big result) are of the "Qi-Jin way" of moving the body.

Fight me

I am not able to follow the philosophy as it is making me dizzy. So, obviously, I am not prepared to fight. To fight, I would have to reach out, and that is contrary to standing still in a perfectly neutral position. If anyone were to vector in towards my neutrality, the result would take place without any subjectivity or thinking.

All this chat boils down to wu-wei, and anything less is some degree or another that is leading (not) to it.

Posted by: @gurugeorge

Levi is now fast disappearing in the rearview mirror.

We should just drop it 'til you can make it to the dojo and then you can make your point.

It always come down to that. My sub-sensei told me all about the fellows who come into his dojo, talking about this and that virtue they have developed. He said he always lets them run on for a while, then he tells them, "That's great. Now step out onto the floor and let's see what you've got."

So as to provide either a vaccum or a reflection, let me say that I have always thought AC's translation of Levi's Key as his 7=4 thesis was relly sneaky trick (possibly overlooked by RTC). It's not that he didn't come out with many other works that surely would qualify but, frankly, I found it (Key) of no use whatsoever.

You claim to be old. Why are you still reading other people's books? Why did Crowley continue to consult the Yi King - I Ching - Yeejing all his life, up to the end? What ever happened to burning one's books, stopping one's mind, and wu-wei-ing it?


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Posted by: @shiva

What great gear-shifting into different concepts and dialects.

"Afloat in the aether, O my God, my God!" 🙂

Wade-Giles for Qi/Ki is "Ch'i" with the apostrophe (denotes aspiration).  

I thought Pinyin was horrific too at first, but once you get into it and work with it for a while it starts to get clearer and you realize it's actually a very clever system. The thing that's confusing about it at first is that the letters aren't taken from just English but from all sorts of roundeye languages (e.g. the pinyin q is akin to its value in Albanian). The guy who invented it (who I think was making a subtle point in using a smorgasbord of non-Chinese languages as his basis, not just English) was clearly a genius who had a fine ear for mentally isolating foreign language sounds and noting their precise similarity to Chinese sounds.  

"J" sounds like "churchyard"

"Q" sounds like "punch yourself" 

The main difference is that "J" is unaspirated while "Q" is strongly aspirated (put a bit of "oomph" into it 🙂 ) and you make your mouth wider as you would saying "ee."  That way, you can see more easily how it translates to "Ki" in Japanese.

Re. "polar" - Eh, I once came across some scholarly thing about the original sense (ridgepole of tent). Akin to the ancientness of the Qi symbol as steaming rice pot, pointing to pressure as a motivating force.  I like going back in time via etymology.

Posted by: @shiva

And there are 4 worlds in QBL. Surely, they can be correlated?

Yeah I wondered about possible 4 correlations. As a scientist, what do you think, what would go with what?

Posted by: @shiva

You claim to be old. Why are you still reading other people's books? 

I am but an egg, there's always something new to learn.

But back to Levi, I went on a little reference chase yesterday.  One of the charming things about Levi is his regular mentions of obscure figures in then-contemporary French culture and occultism.  I'm at Chapter 18, Potions and Spells, and I came across:-

"Cazotte’s infamous prophetic dinner, written about by La Harpe, has not yet been understood;"

I wondered who Cazotte was and what his infamous prophetic dinner was, dug around a bit on the old interwebs and came across the following two fascinating articles (on an also interesting blog, a treasure-trove of little oddities):-

The Jacques Cazotte prophecy 1

The Jacques Cazotte prophecy 2

It looks like a rather well-attested (confirmed by several witnesses) example of prophecy from a genuine adept of the day, just prior to the French Revolution.  Levi goes on to say that he thinks a lot of the people prophesied at on the occasion were also adepts (which kind of makes sense, considering the upheavals they were involved in later and the also-well-attested connection of a lot of political shenanigans in those days to Freemasonry, etc.).

Still not directly about Levi, but we're moving back in his direction 🙂

 


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Posted by: @gurugeorge

I thought Pinyin was horrific too at first, but once you get into it and work with it for a while it starts to get clearer and you realize it's actually a very clever system.

Yes. I did this for about 28 years. Then I tossed it all out and just write Chi for the public, Ki for Nippon, and Qi for professional purposes (it's politically-correct, you know).

Posted by: @gurugeorge

the letters aren't taken from just English but from all sorts of roundeye languages

Right. Obviously. It's a lingo in itself. Thank the destiny fates I was not required to learn the ideographic characters. I did take a course in basic calligraphy from the Chinese master. It reminded me of poster paints and second grade. My product was about second grade as well - no commercial value whatsoever.

Posted by: @gurugeorge

Yeah I wondered about possible 4 correlations. As a scientist, what do you think, what would go with what?

I am not a (real) scientist. I am a doctor and a martial artist. That's all the fates left me when they took my toys away. The doctor has now been retired for a decade and the dojo is closed. Considering that I never bothered with the 4 QBL worlds, being content with the simplicity of one Tree, I am in no position to even make the first correlation. 

But if there are 4 of anything, and four of another, then 4 = four or something is wrong somewhere.

Posted by: @gurugeorge

we're moving back in his direction

It's the subtle nudges that get the Engine back on the Track.


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Damien
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Posted by: @shiva

Modern science has now termed Quantum energy as Scalar energy.

I'd love to see some peer reviewed publications that suggest as much. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @damien

peer reviewed publications

I wouldn't know about that, but a quick search engine fling turns up lots of references.

The "quantum" or "fine matter" or "aethyr" deal was hited at by some, but brought into reality by Tesla. Max Planck brought in the math and the word quantum. Max's neighbor, a guy named Hieronymus, was an electronic wizard who built "devices" for Max. He also built one for himself, and he held the only patent for radionic medical instruments. That patent is now held by a fellow who is promoting the term scalar healing, which is just radionics, which is just quantum circuit applications, which is just Tesla lighting up the world on all frequencies.

"Peer-reviewed" opinions aren't worth a poop in this field. There are so few peers. What is need in clinical studies. Does it work? Who care what the peers think (unless they have clinical trials to offer).

I know elen people who have entered my own clinical trial, including myself. Just a little bit of the objective measurements is so overwhelmingly positive (good effects) that I recommended the process to others. Too bad it is expensive. I cannot afford it ... but my wife says she will pay if our patrons do not. I cringe. Fortunately, our patrons pay without thinking twice, and we all benefit.

This has been a true review by a licensed physician peer and an retired magician who says this stuff works and I have trurned much attention onto the Tesla track ...

... because it's sympathetic magic without the superstitious window dressing.

 


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Damien
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Posted by: @shiva

a guy named Hieronymus

The Hieronymous Machine. They had one here in the Museum of Questionable Medical Devices before it closed. John W Campbell Jr was a huge proponent of this machine. Also of Dianetics before it was known as Scientology. Scientology is also lauded by endless online sources although, for some reason, they likewise do not have a lot of peer reviewed research to source. Whatever. People say it works. Hail Xenu.

To Hieronymous' credit, here's what he had to say of Mr. Campbell's "contributions:" “I appreciate Mr. Campbell’s interest in my work, but over the years since then, I have concluded that he’s set back the acceptance of my work by his continual emphasis on what he termed the supernatural or magic aspects…”


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katrice
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Posted by: @damien

Scientology is also lauded by endless online sources although, for some reason, they likewise do not have a lot of peer reviewed research to source. Whatever. People say it works. Hail Xenu

Hail Xenu indeed!

If anyone is curious and wants to see what, if anything, scientology has to offer for techniques, without having to spend any money or end up brainwashed, someone compiled it all in a couple of free downloads here  http://freezoneearth.org/pilot/  

Please note that Iam just sharing this for informational purposes, and that does not mean that I endorse any of it.  😎 

 

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @damien

Dianetics

I see no connection between ElRon and Radionics. The difference may be considered a comparison of The Black Lodge with The White Lodge, so to speak.

Posted by: @damien

the supernatural or magic aspects…

Einstein called it "Spooky action at a distance." Words are just words. Either it works, or it don't.

Posted by: @katrice

Please note that Iam just sharing this for informational purposes, and that does not mean that I endorse any of it.

The Scientific Savants of Science-tology have a few really good concepts and techniques. Too bad they are used for slave-cyborg enhancement. Any tool in any hand is only as good as the intentent of the mind behind the hand.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

 

The Scientific Savants of Science-tology have a few really good concepts and techniques. Too bad they are used for slave-cyborg enhancement. Any tool in any hand is only as good as the intentent of the mind behind the hand.

Much of their concepts and techniques were creatively borrowed from Crowley (Clearing=lower gradework, Thetan= HGA, roughly), Reich, and Korzybski. 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @katrice

Much of their concepts and techniques were creatively borrowed from Crowley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3yfsbi4L70


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Damien
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Posted by: @katrice

Please note that Iam just sharing this for informational purposes, and that does not mean that I endorse any of it.

Sure, sure. 😉 


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katrice
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Posted by: @damien
Posted by: @katrice

Please note that Iam just sharing this for informational purposes, and that does not mean that I endorse any of it.

Sure, sure. 😉 

I'm not saying that I don't endorse it either.  😉 

But seriously, its the Clearing and Operating Thetan processes all compiled and redesigned for solo use, no cult indoctrination required.  


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Damien
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Posted by: @shiva

Einstein called it "Spooky action at a distance."

When Einstein called "it" "spooky action at a distance," he was doing so as a negation of the possibility of the idea. He wrote: "“I cannot seriously believe [in quantum mechanics] because the theory is incompatible with the requirement that physics should represent reality in space and time without spooky action at a distance...” Einstein considered the possibility of "spooky action at a distance" to be impossible and a violation of the principle of 'local realism'.

It turns out Einstein was (likely) wrong, but SAAAD (quantum entanglement) refers to a very specific particle state or relationship. It's not a catch all for things that don't make sense, or for things that can't be explained except to say "Einstein called it this."

And then it actually starts getting weird. 


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Damien
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Posted by: @katrice

But seriously, its the Clearing and Operating Thetan processes all compiled and redesigned for solo use, no cult indoctrination required.  

Well as long as we can agree that Thetans are real. Seriously though, interesting link. 


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katrice
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Posted by: @damien
Posted by: @katrice

But seriously, its the Clearing and Operating Thetan processes all compiled and redesigned for solo use, no cult indoctrination required.  

Well as long as we can agree that Thetans are real. Seriously though, interesting link. 

Thank you.  Honestly, I found it interesting to see what they actually do for practices. It's put together from diluted parts of other systems, but still drawn from solid sources.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @damien

for things that can't be explained

But they are being explained. And they do work. And so does Sympathetic Magick, if one has the proper link and the required level of consciousness.

I'm not sure what your position is. Are you saying this quantum/scalar stuff doesn't work? That Sympathetic Magick doesn't work? That you don't believe in Levi, whose thread this is?


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