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dom
 dom
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22/07/2020 11:37 pm  

No this is not about any of the present Lashtal posters...ha..hahha.hha  excuse me whilst I laugh hard...

The Level 3 of the Liber Vel Jugorum exercise as follows;

.

(b) By some device, such as the changing of thy ring from one finger to another, create in thyself two personalities, the thoughts of one being within entirely different limits from that of the other, the common ground being the necessities of life.

...............

  1. (i.e. the matter of Cereberus).
  2. For instance, let A be a man of strong passions, skilled in the Holy Qabalah, a vegetarian, and a keen "reactionary" politician. Let B be a bloodless and ascetic thinker, occupied with business and family cares, an eater of meat, and a keen progressive politician. Let no thought proper to "A" arise when the ring is on the "B" finger, and vice versa.

I'm assuming that none of you are in Level 3 Vel Jugorum other-personality mode when you post here and likewise I wouldn't say that AC was doing this exercise e.g. dumb misogynist personality when he wrote his books i.e. committing to the written word.  Crowley's 'Russian Count' character was done for "purposes of psychological observation" of others not of himself as part of this exercise however we don't appear to know when he was doing this exercise and who he was being when he performed this exercise do we? 

 

Any amateur or professional actor has to do this exercise anyway I guess unless his/her chosen personality is so intimately them anyway.   I guess this is why actors are celebrated. 

This topic was modified 3 months ago 5 times by dom

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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23/07/2020 12:04 am  

Would like to add that AC has been accused of lying about why he did his Russian Count characterization and likewise it would be impossible to know when he was in Vel Jugorum 'other personality' mode throughout his existence unless he actually explained any unusual behaviour resulting from this exercise after the event.  Hence the title of the OP.   For example I could say that I was in reductionist-materialist mode for about a year or so because it was part of an extended Vel Jugorum exercise.... 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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08/08/2020 12:45 pm  
I assume that Crowley was employing a Peter Sellers sort of characterization prep (in order to fit in with the locals?) in the following incidences and not merely using fake names (reference https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline) ;
 
1899
Adopts name 'Count Vladimir Svareff' early in the year and uses it until the purchase of Boleskine House
 
1904 March 14: AC and Rose move into a flat in Cairo.  It is here where he registers under the Persian name of Chioa Khan, being the Hebrew for Beast.
 
These events are probably well before he developed the Vel Jugorum (Level 3) work/ideas which does not involve amateur dramatics as such but is in fact a form of dharana.   Nevertheless maybe this earlier 'hobby' of adopting different personalities (to get the Demon Crowley out of his way?)  did allow him to go on to develop the Vel Jugorum exercises. 
 
Maybe Crowley (also) adopted these fake personas as part of the espionage work.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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08/08/2020 5:04 pm  

There is definitely at least one pic of AC as the Persian Prince in costume, can't recall if the Russian Count role involved fancy dress/cos-play.

My recollection of his Boleskine days is that he went around in kits, which i suppose visiting Russian aristos may do from time to time. And then there is that pic of him in Sicily in a full plaid, which must have been baking hot, albeit with good ventilation below.

He liked to wear fanciful outfits, and have folks think he was someone more important, and exotic, than a mere country heir to a minor brewery fortune with a penchant for buggery. Like most, if not all, of his vices, he made this a virtue, and a spiritual exercise.

The Order of Nine Angles "insight roles" are obviously derived from AC's Jugorum intellectual cos-play exercise.


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dom
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08/08/2020 6:27 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

There is definitely at least one pic of AC as the Persian Prince in costume, can't recall if the Russian Count role involved fancy dress/cos-play.

Yeah I think it's in the Crowley scrapbook.

Posted by: @ignant666

 

My recollection of his Boleskine days is that he went around in kits, which i suppose visiting Russian aristos may do from time to time. And then there is that pic of him in Sicily in a full plaid, which must have been baking hot, albeit with good ventilation below.

That goes back to the G.D. days as he turned up in a kilt (and a black mask whilst holding a dagger)  to "seize the vault" from them a second time (p54-p55 Colin Wilson's Aleister Crowley The Nature of the Beast, Chapter 3 Raising Hell).  They found a policeman to remove him.  Mathers also wore highland dress and lived in a fantasy world, that's another story, however he seemed to have been the one to have influenced Crowley to cos-play.

Posted by: @ignant666

He liked to wear fanciful outfits, and have folks think he was someone more important, and exotic, than a mere country heir to a minor brewery fortune with a penchant for buggery. Like most, if not all, of his vices, he made this a virtue, and a spiritual exercise.

To be honest I misread the Stage 3, level 2  Vel Jugorum exercise in the OP.  I assumed it was role play or even as we now say 'cos play' but it isn't it's just a type of dharana.     

Posted by: @ignant666

The Order of Nine Angles "insight roles" are obviously derived from AC's Jugorum intellectual cos-play exercise.

What, to be a more and more evil racist version of themselves?  If they really practiced Vel Jugorum they would have to confront the inner tolerant leftist-liberal rational parts of themselves.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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08/08/2020 6:33 pm  
Posted by: @dom
[M]aybe this earlier 'hobby' of adopting different personalities (to get the Demon Crowley out of his way?) did allow him to go on to develop the Vel Jugorum exercises. 
 
Maybe Crowley (also) adopted these fake personas as part of the espionage work.

I don't see why doing so would in any way, in itself, therefore qualify him to be a "Saint"?

Posted by: @dom

Hence the title of the OP. 

A Saint is somebody who has given one's lifeblood (i.e., their all) into the Cup (or Grail or SanGraal) of Babalon... it has nothing at all to do with the practices of Liber Jugorum (except in the mildest and most preparatory of senses).

Norma N Joy Conquest


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dom
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08/08/2020 6:38 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @dom
[M]aybe this earlier 'hobby' of adopting different personalities (to get the Demon Crowley out of his way?) did allow him to go on to develop the Vel Jugorum exercises. 
 
Maybe Crowley (also) adopted these fake personas as part of the espionage work.

I don't see why doing so would in any way, in itself, therefore qualify him to be a "Saint"?

Posted by: @dom

Hence the title of the OP. 

A Saint is somebody who has given one's lifeblood (i.e., their all) into the Cup (or Grail or SanGraal) of Babalon... it has nothing at all to do with the practices of Liber Jugorum (except in the mildest and most preparatory of senses).

Norma N Joy Conquest

Yes a brilliant and not at all nit- picking observation there.  Unfortunately though I am unable to edit the OP and change it to 'Liar or (potential/embryonic) Saint?'  or ' Liar or Saint in the making?'

Leave my ribcage alone eh.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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08/08/2020 6:46 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Unfortunately though I am unable to edit the OP and change it to 'Liar or (potential/embryonic) Saint?'  or ' Liar or Saint in the making?'

The point I was making is that I don't see why the word, or concept of, "Saint" has to come into it at all; what possible bearing it has to the rest.

"Nit-picking"?  Would you care to give an example, or two, and I will then explain why they are perfectly valid points and not instances of nitpicking at all.  That's unless you're relying on Shiva having to speak up for you, of course.

N Joy


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dom
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08/08/2020 6:54 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

.

N Joy

Will do. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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08/08/2020 7:00 pm  
Posted by: @dom

@jamiejbarter

N Joy

Will do. 

I'm glad you will be enjoying yourself, doing something constructive!  I have other things to do tonight, however, and will be needing to be leaving very shortly.

But do carry on.


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dom
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08/08/2020 7:19 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

 

The point I was making is that I don't see why the word, or concept of, "Saint" has to come into it at all; what possible bearing it has to the rest.

 

Ok I'll bite. 

Liar or Saint i.e. 'Liar' or 'opposite quality of 'a liar' i.e. 'a saint' who we traditionally associate with virtues such as being honest..... so the interlay of opposites there in the title gave the title impact.   I like giving titles impact.   Over to you. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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08/08/2020 9:27 pm  

I had a buddy who would sound through an angel on the throne ( personare ).
He would go out for a kill and then he would reform, curl up and an angel would resound in the throne again.

 


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dom
 dom
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08/08/2020 10:15 pm  
Posted by: @tiger

I had a buddy who would sound through an angel on the throne ( personare ).
He would go out for a kill and then he would reform, curl up and an angel would resound in the throne again.

 

What happened to that buddy?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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08/08/2020 10:49 pm  

Mighta been another case of

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,
[...]
Allen Ginsberg, "Howl", 1956. See also. Ginsberg is another case of "The Demon ..."; he started perving on my friend who grew up across the hall from him when the kid was like 8. But still, he was as good a poet as AC aspired to be, and that's pretty darn good.

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Tiger
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08/08/2020 11:31 pm  

@dom
" What happened to that buddy? "

He let the identifications that arose in various conditions and existences pass.


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dom
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08/08/2020 11:38 pm  
Posted by: @tiger

@dom
" What happened to that buddy? "

He let the identifications that arose in various conditions and existences pass.

I meant where is he?  Are you still in contact with him?  Does he still live by you?  That is, I haven't got  a clue what you're talking about....as follows;

 

Posted by: @tiger

I had a buddy who would sound through an angel on the throne ( personare ).
He would go out for a kill and then he would reform, curl up and an angel would resound in the throne again.

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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09/08/2020 12:03 am  

that was then this is now
going back to look at shadows
good night


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Shiva
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09/08/2020 1:10 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

A Saint is somebody who has given one's lifeblood (i.e., their all) into the Cup (or Grail or SanGraal) of Babalon... it has nothing at all to do with the practices of Liber Jugorum (except in the mildest and most preparatory of senses).

I second that notion.

Posted by: @tiger

I had a buddy who would sound through an angel on the throne.
He would go out for a kill and then resound in the throne again.

You had a Buddha who sounded angelic on the phone?
Then he'd kill something and call you on the Phone again?

WTF?

 


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dom
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09/08/2020 1:14 am  

It takes a lot to get a 'WTF' out of Shiva.

Tiger's long-term incoherent eccentric mumbo-jumbo seemed to have made it. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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09/08/2020 2:04 am  
Posted by: @dom

Tiger's long-term incoherent eccentric mumbo-jumbo seemed to have made it.

Actually, we both speak Galactic, so I can understand him. But I couldn't resist the Buddy/Buddha, Throne/Phone paradox insertion, while pretending to not understand.

Note: Tiger assesses posts. Then he takes the point or the question or the post to the Moon, or some "other" celestial sphere. The Moonies then translate it for him, referencing it to cosmic law, with references, and he comes back to post a reply in obscure or "occulted" phrases, which might be against the occult site law, with or without excessive carriage-returnism.

It's some form of art, you see.

 


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Tiger
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09/08/2020 10:59 am  

@shiva
my buddy was a Zen Master
my cat;

who passed away.

The shadows in Plato’s cave
occupied a vision from the throne anew.
( the seats of consciousness )

 


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Tiger
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09/08/2020 1:39 pm  

Some may allow a gum chewer on the Throne.
Others may formulate a video gamer to over shadow the gum chewer.
A Sovereign may prefigure a dominion
and a god force may resound .


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Tiger
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09/08/2020 2:08 pm  

The destruction of forget fullness may ensue.
An Amanuensis may witnesses the naked splendor of Aletheia rising from the river of Lethe.


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