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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
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22/01/2010 9:30 am  

I've been researching the symbolism of Liber Resh lately and have come to believe that the god attributions may not be correct. Or to be fair they seem not to be historically correct. Historically it was Khepera (morning), Ra (noon), Temu (evening), and Amon (the hidden solar god). Hathoor was never even associated as a phase of the sun at all.

Some practitioners have corrected Crowley's attributions – for example, modern Golden Dawn practitioners the Ciceros wrote and use a ritual called "Kheperu Nu Ra" which uses Khepera, Ra, Temu, and Amon (the "hidden" solar god) at the four times of day.) Supposedly this was suggested by Isreal Regardi.

From what I gather, Liber Resh was mainly inspired by a combination of a prayer from the book of the dead as well as a passage from the Book of the Law. The prayer from the Book of the Dead is called "A Hymn of Praise to be Sung to Ra When He Riseth on the Horizon, and When He Setteth In the Land of Life":

"Homage to thee, O Ra, when thou risest as Tem-Heru-Khuti. Thou art to be adored. Thy beauties are before mine eyes, thy radiance is upon my body. Thou goest forth to thy setting in the Sektet Boat with fair winds, and thy heart is glad."

"Homage to thee, O thou who are Ra when thou risest, and who art Tem when thou settest in beauty. Thou risest and thou shinest on the back of thy mother Nut, O thou who art crowned the king of gods! Nut welcometh thee, and payeth homage unto thee, and Maat, the everlasting and never-changing goddess, embraceth thee at noon and at eve."

The passage from the Book of the Law was Crowley's poetically paraphrased translation which was found on the Stele of Revealing:

"Appear on the throne of Ra! Open the ways of the Khu! Lighten the ways of the Ka! The ways of the Khabs run through To stir me or still me!
Aum! let it fill me! The light is mine: its rays consume Me: I have made a secret door into the House of Ra and Tum. Of Khephra and of Ahathoor."

The literal translation was:

"Appearing on his great throne, he travels the path of the soul, of the spirit, and of the body, having received the light, being equipped, I have made my path towards the place in which Ra, Tum, Khephra, and Hathor are"

That's where I'm stuck. So I guess some of the questions I have would be why is Ahathoor in there? Does this mean there were more than one set of gods associated with the path of the sun? Is that what is meant by a formula (Ra, Ahathoor, Tum, Khephra vs. Khepera, Ra, Temu, Amon)? Is this supposed to be the formula for the new aeon or did ancient egyptians always practice both? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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Horemakhet
(@horemakhet)
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22/01/2010 10:04 am  

It was always up to the High Priest(s), at any given time to formulate the modes of Sun worship for a dynasty.~~ Try practising that ritual for a year!- My girlfriend at the time thought that I was the strangest boy to ever share a bed with . . .


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 Anonymous
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22/01/2010 5:23 pm  

Thanks for responding Horemakhet. = ] So how many formulas of modes or "paths" of the sun have their been?? Could you steer me in the right direction to learn more about that?

As far as practicing, I had been doing Liber Resh on regular basis but when i went deeper into the symbolism I got a little confused about the (A)Hathoor thing.


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 Anonymous
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22/01/2010 7:33 pm  

I think it's important to keep in mind that the god names used by Crowley are more Egyptoid rather than Egyptian.

Also, the adorations given in Liber Resh vel Helios, I would take, as more of a suggestion of adorations to use. There are many Thelemites who recite certain passages out of TBotL. Ultimately it is a way of referencing the sun within us that shines no matter the time of day. So, feel free to use whatever speaks to you. If you have good reason to use certain godnames, ones that feel true to you, then go ahead and do it.


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sonofthestar
(@sonofthestar)
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22/01/2010 7:45 pm  

93!

“Ultimately it is a way of referencing the sun within us that shines no matter the time of day.”
Exactly so kuniggety!

It helps “not just to” understand Resh---as relating to any particular phases, and/or
aspects of our Sun alone.
Consider this to relate also, and most importantly to “That Sun of Thine own Self-hood”
as That most singular star relates to various aspects of Thelema unfolding As Thyself.
Consider, how the Gods of Resh--{As Given By Crowley}---
apply to That particular manifestation,
in the secret, and not so secret realms of “Who” and “What” You really Are:
and how, this might possibly relate to Ahathoor---in the sense of the word “Union”.

93! 93! 93!


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 Anonymous
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23/01/2010 3:42 am  

Surely; this is the natural procession of Gods through Aeons? : HORUS, evolving with the circling of The Stars which never rest-
moves from Martian to Solar aspect as RA-HERAKHTY---- He marries HATHOOR; after the SAKHMET descent,and transformation into HATHOOR, after The war:--- so that She is exalted as The Wife of Horus:- Ahathoor, in the current Aeonic season; in the noonday Sun position. This is the ancient formula; brought up to date by The Master Therion, surely. The union proving a twin sexed nature to Horus; as He is today. The personal procession, or evolution, referred to by Sonofthestar; now becoming social:-
The norm, as liberated Woman, and bi-sexed natures become apparent.
' I am: Because I am not'-' 0=2'


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sonofthestar
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23/01/2010 5:06 am  

93!

Indeed!
This “Conceptional” ---union---being,
that Hathoor as sky goddess,
provided the home to Horus
( in his aspect as her husband) in residence.
Splendidly beautiful is the wealth of these meanings radiant!
As her husband, he is potent to be, as well as To Become,
Her Son as well----!
And as to the nature and aspects of such a child…..?
Full circle I say, are these implications revolving……!

Some Practitioners, did not know: thus presumed The Beast to error
when he attributed the mid-day sun to Hathoor.
Some Practitioners! now know where They blundered.

93! 93! 93!


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 Anonymous
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23/01/2010 5:27 am  

93

"kuniggety" wrote:
Ultimately it is a way of referencing the sun within us that shines no matter the time of day. So, feel free to use whatever speaks to you. If you have good reason to use certain godnames, ones that feel true to you, then go ahead and do it.

I'd like to second kuniggety's point here, which is well made.

That said, my "Living Thelema" segment on the latest episode of the "Speech in the Silence" podcast covers a number of magical and practical details regarding the performance of Liber Resh. You might want to check it out:

http://speechinthesilence.com

93 93/93

David


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 Anonymous
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Posts: 0
23/01/2010 10:24 pm  
"Draconuit" wrote:
Surely; this is the natural procession of Gods through Aeons? : HORUS, evolving with the circling of The Stars which never rest-
moves from Martian to Solar aspect as RA-HERAKHTY---- He marries HATHOOR; after the SAKHMET descent,and transformation into HATHOOR, after The war:--- so that She is exalted as The Wife of Horus:- Ahathoor, in the current Aeonic season; in the noonday Sun position. This is the ancient formula; brought up to date by The Master Therion, surely. The union proving a twin sexed nature to Horus; as He is today. The personal procession, or evolution, referred to by Sonofthestar; now becoming social:-
The norm, as liberated Woman, and bi-sexed natures become apparent.
' I am: Because I am not'-' 0=2'

OK so if this is the ancient formula brought up to date, or the formula of the new Aeon how, does one reconcile that with the fact that this formula was written on the Stele of Revealing thousands of years ago? Crowley didn't really create this formula, he merely paraphrased it poetically. Very tastefully I might add, but the actual formula is an ancient one.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that it was the responsibility of the high priest of each dynasty to come up their own formulas of sun adorations. This was probably the main cause of my confusion. I assumed that the egyptians had one way of seeing the path of the sun and as the saying goes, "when you 'assume', you make an ass out of U and me!" = ]

Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, was a priest of the Egyptian god Mentu who lived in Thebes during the 25th and 26th dynasty (c. 725 BCE). If Im not mistaken Thebes, which is now Luxor, was the capital of egypt at the time. So would it be safe to "ass-U-me" that the formula as written on the Stele of Revealing was in fact the official formula of solar adoration in Egypt at the time it was written? Or did Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu write his own special formula for himself? If so, was that a common practice amongst the priesthood or an exception the the rules?


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 Anonymous
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24/01/2010 1:37 am  

From DracoNuit's view of our unjverse; there are Universal truths; which can be alluded to, by formulaic symbology.
The Egyptian procession of Gods; may be seen as The progression, the evolution of The Human soul; unto Osiris risen; or Asar un Nefer.
Draco has experienced a most wondrous revealing, of Set. A day or so later; he randomly read an Egyptian spell:---This spell explained
the experience he had exactly---written thousands of years ago. Draco considers this a 'Universal truth'.
One does consider the issue being discussed as a Universal truth. It was understood in 725 BC; as is apparent.
The Priest: Ankh Af Na Khonsu; wrote of matters which have relevence; in this instance; to now: The Aeon of Horus.
Though One does study The Stele, whether this was 'official' is unknown to One.
Draco personally considers that it was an excepton; as its full function is attuned to the present current:
Its time of peaking efficacy... I wonder, therefore:-- did Khonsu; have an understanding of that which was to come?:
which has come-
Love Under Will
Draco


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 Anonymous
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24/01/2010 2:22 am  
"Draconuit" wrote:
I wonder, therefore:-- did Khonsu; have an understanding of that which was to come?

Do you? I must say - you seem to have a unique insight into the revolving cycle of solar death and rebirth. Perhaps you'll honour us by sharing your secret occult wisdom on the matter?

😆


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Los
 Los
(@los)
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Posts: 2195
24/01/2010 6:17 pm  
"Pineal_Man" wrote:
OK so if this is the ancient formula brought up to date, or the formula of the new Aeon how, does one reconcile that with the fact that this formula was written on the Stele of Revealing thousands of years ago?

Because the "aeons" aren't literal, chronological time periods, but concepts.

As has already been stated, the important point of Resh is identification with the Sun and the perception that it is shining as one underneath the illusions created by the earth's rotation. You could attach virtually any symbols to the ritual and still have the same result. Conversely, you could just blindly perform the ritual as written, but if you don't have a grasp on its purpose, it won't be very effective.


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Horemakhet
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24/01/2010 6:53 pm  

. . . You seem sure of yourself, Los. I respect that. Still, you dont have a clue what you are talking about. He is not interested in the interpretation you offer. Simple as that.


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Horemakhet
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24/01/2010 7:14 pm  

. . . I do not mean you any offense, personally, Los- but you come off as being condescending in a discussion that has potential. You might not have the answer . . . .


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
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24/01/2010 9:26 pm  

Los, I would be happy to substitute the word "Aeon" with the word "concept" but my question would still remain. I ask again: if this is the ancient formula brought up to date, or the formula of the new "CONCEPT" = ] ...how, does one reconcile that with the fact that this formula was written on the Stele of Revealing thousands of years ago?

Los also said: "As has already been stated, the important point of Resh is identification with the Sun and the perception that it is shining as one underneath the illusions created by the earth's rotation. You could attach virtually any symbols to the ritual and still have the same result. Conversely, you could just blindly perform the ritual as written, but if you don't have a grasp on its purpose, it won't be very effective."

Absolutely! I respect you for not adhering blindly to dogma. Hell if I wanted to get all Discordian about it I could recite the lyrics to Pee Wees Playhouse in honor of the rising sun! "Get outta bed, there'll be no more nappin'! (Wake up!) 'Cause you've landed in a place where anything can happen..." Practitioner than rotates counter clock-wise three times while vibrating Pee Wee Herman laugh! "et-et-et-et-et-et!!!

This however is not my point. What I am wanting to know is why the formula as given in Liber Resh specifically is supposed to be so important? What were Crowley's intentions for it and why? How can it be the new formula if it was written over two thousand years ago??? Why do we even need a new formula anyway? I like old. If respected occultists such as Chic Cicero and Isreal Regardi thought Crowleys attributions were erroneous, then this couldn't be that dumb of a question. Don't get me wrong, it's also possible that Crowley and/or Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu were so advanced that even some of the leading occultists just didn't get it.


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 Anonymous
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25/01/2010 1:18 am  

Technically speaking, Horus is associated with daybreak, as the sun rises into the sky (“He Who is Above”), but the god is nowhere to be found in either the Stele, Crowley’s paraphrase or the Cicero’s version. While it is correct that Khephra is associated with dawn, the term may have several meanings. One sense implies actual daybreak and the other implies a mid-point whereupon the sun begins ascending and waxing before appearing over the horizon. Khephra means “to come into being”, signifying the self-renewal of the sun, so I think Crowley’s assignment of the god to the midnight station (in this case) is correct.

As I understand it, the ultimate point of Egyptian mortuary spells is for the dead - after passing through various trials, the lake of fire, the psychostasis, confessing the 42 Negative Confessions and being judged true of voice - is to reinsert themselves back into the cosmic cycle via reuniting with Ra. And this was no easy task. So I don’t agree with Crowley’s attribution of Ra to daybreak in Liber Resh (nor, for that matter, am I convinced of his mapping of Ra onto Tiphareth in 777 – Ra, despite his identification with the sun, seems to have a cosmological dimension far beyond the human universe). However, you can logically deduce the sequence of the gods by their attributes.

My guess would be: Khephra (midnight – coming into being), Ahathor (morning – welcoming the dead in the West), Ra (noon – the sun at its strongest power) and Tum (sunset – completion of the solar cycle before commencing descent into the Netherworld).


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sonofthestar
(@sonofthestar)
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25/01/2010 3:57 am  

93!

I am sure these two greatly respected individuals,
have written some interesting, and useful things about Resh;
----even writing “more about it”
than what anyone previous to AC, and including AC,
most likely wrote about it.
But when it comes to gleaning all the real gems,
this seemingly so-simple a ritual contains…..
…..neither Regardie, or Cicero, are the way to go;
Not even if someone goes so far as to do Resh reciting
these “Crowley has been corrected” versions,
in a darkened moving picture show,
going all Discordian about it,
singing Pee Wee‘s formula:
LIC - a - LIC - a - LA - LIC - a - HINIE - HO----!

Being that Hathoor---is a female God,
using her name, when referencing her union with,
the “male” husband/son aspect of solar force as contained
within her--as sky Goddess, and therefore,
in union with that feminine self of her,
presents us with the truth of Feminine solar aspects, that
are otherwise, and erroneous thought by many,
to be only male in aspect.
So we have the balancing spectrum of things, so to say,
when we consider the use of Her name, used at mid day.

Now things can be seen in a new light, especially “if “
the use of a female god is referenced as being at one with,
as an aspect of the sun, in such an “hymn to the sun”
as possibly originating with
Ankh-f-n-khonsu.
For if such is the case, that case being that he did indeed instigate
such an innovation, we can see clearly how he is indeed,
Chosen of Nuit.
But, even if this is not the case, the individual who introduced
Hathoor at mid-day,
as a divinity ranking with those other solar divinities named,
can be credited as having authored the “correct” and most vibrantly,
potent version---despite the “knowledge” of Regardie and/or Cicero.
…..Being that such a version, as Crowley’s….
introduces the formula of the female goddess as one with the male god,
as part of that particular aspect of the processional phase
which she--Ahathoor, is quite necessarily there for,
if the full spectrum of such radiant splendor is to be complete.

93! 93! 93!


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 Anonymous
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25/01/2010 5:34 am  

Pineal_Man PostPosted: Jan 24, 2010 - 01:26 PM:
"If respected occultists such as Chic Cicero and Isreal Regardi (sic) thought Crowleys (sic) attributions were erroneous..."

Frances Regardie had the following to say about Liber Resh vel Helios:

"This particular practice should be made a regular part of everyday life and should be persisted in until it becomes a part of your way of life. Other exercises described here may be performed for limited periods of time, but these particular Fourfold Adorations are to be integrated for all time into the daily pattern of living." (Regardie, Isreal, Twelve Steps to Spiritual Enlightenment, cap. 1)


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 Anonymous
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25/01/2010 7:20 am  
"revealer" wrote:
That said, my "Living Thelema" segment on the latest episode of the "Speech in the Silence" podcast covers a number of magical and practical details regarding the performance of Liber Resh. You might want to check it out:

Dr. Shoemaker:

93.

I just listened to this podcast earlier today and was thoroughly engaged during your lecture. It mirrored what I have been taught and feel in general about this ritual. I look forward to your future lectures on praxis which is so seemingly lacking in many "Thelemites'" lives.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
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25/01/2010 9:44 am  
"sonofthestar" wrote:
93!

Draconuit - will you please stop replying to yourself? It's dishonest. We all know that both you are SotS are the same poster. I've told you once before (when you were pretending to be your wife, and you deceased), that your writing style is rather too distinctive to get away with this sort of deception, and it is no doubt feeding your continuing delusions of grandeur also.

Are you an A.:A.: master this week, or a dragon lord fighting level 3 demons and destroying covens? Whatever the lastest salve to your ego is, it's nothing to do with Sunshine, and you're hardly qualified to tell other magickians about the adorations.


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 Anonymous
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25/01/2010 6:51 pm  

I wouldn't pretend that any of us are really that much more "qualified" to tell other magicians about the adorations. As far as I know, Crowley didn't write much on the adorations other than that they are an essential and practical practice. (I am admittedly not a huge Crowley scholar although I do plan on collecting the complete diaries when they are published by the OTO later this year as well as Richard K(sic)'s Perdurabo since I didn't catch it the first time around and it goes for so much now.)So, all we can do is sit back and take what we know and attempt to infer things out of the way it is written and the particular god names that he chose to utilize. Draconuit's writing style is a little...presumptuous but I can only commend him for taking the effort to come to a personal understanding of the god names used.


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 Anonymous
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25/01/2010 7:50 pm  

Yes - perhaps you're right Kuniggety. Even if Draconuit runs a fake A.:A.: group then it doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to him... does it? lol


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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25/01/2010 9:00 pm  

Alrah,

"alrah" wrote:
Draconuit - will you please stop replying to yourself? It's dishonest. We all know that both you are SotS are the same poster.

I bow of course to your greater knowledge, but I've seen nothing to suggest that the two usernames relate to the same person.

In any case, please refer any complaints to me: I really don't look to site members to attempt to moderate the Forums.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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Los
 Los
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25/01/2010 9:37 pm  

93 Pineal_Man,

I certainly didn't mean to be "condescending" or to dismiss your question as "dumb" -- I tried to give it an accurate and full answer.

It seems to me that if you write something like this:

How can it be the new formula if it was written over two thousand years ago???

then you are operating under the assumption that aeons are literal, neatly-divided time periods in which older symbols can "expire," for lack of a better term.

But if you agree that virtually any symbol can be used to represent something -- and it seems you agree with this -- then there's nothing stopping anyone, including Crowley, from taking an ancient prayer and applying it to his system.

The reason he picked the specific godnames he did almost certainly has to do with the ideas he wanted to represent. For instance, by attributing a goddess to the noontime sun, it's possible that Crowley is hinting at the union of male and female. By attributing Kephra to midnight, Crowley was probably drawing upon the symbolism of the beetle that rolls its eggs in dung (concealing the sun until the dawn).

Are these attributions "correct"? Well, they'll resonate with some people and not with others. Are they historically accurate? It's difficult to say and not terribly relevant to the practical details of performance.


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 Anonymous
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Posts: 0
26/01/2010 3:19 am  

Reading these posts I realized my understanding of the meaning of aeons had something to be desired so I went and picked up a copy of the Magick of Aleister Crowley by Lon Milo DuQuette. In that book he defines a magickal formula as a "perceived cosmological fact or theory." These are linked to particular aeons. These aeons do not necessarily coincide with astrological chronology but they are based on the perceived cosmological facts and theories of the time.

There's been a few changes in the past few thousand years! For example, at time the Stele of Revealing was written, people really thought the sun was dying in the evening. Literally. Today know we that the earth is round and not flat. A modern magickian knows when he/she is performing Resh in the morning that the sun is not actually rising but that earth is rotating towards it. Duh! OK, the embarrassing truth is that I actually had forgotten about that and have been performing Resh all this time like an ancient! Hahahahah!

But I digress, I don't mean to be argumentative but I feel strongly that chronology is a factor in considering the formulas of an aeon. Ankh-n-f-Khonsu most likely did not know the earth orbits the sun. However, in answer to my own question, "how can it be the new formula if it was written over two thousand years ago???" I would now say because Egyptians were obsessed on astrology and even more obsessed on death and the death of the sun. It would'nt be too far of a reach to wonder if they made astrological and/or formulaic calculations for future aeons. Maybe he really did leave the Stele as a clue for us as Crowley seemed to believe.

I don't pretend to have much of a grasp on this formula yet, but I'm pretty sure it wasnt written with the knowledge we now have of the sun in mind. Perhaps that's not the point of the formula, but I still think these things would be worth taking into consideration while performing Resh.


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