Mass of the Phoenix
 
Notifications
Clear all

Mass of the Phoenix

58 Posts
17 Users
9 Likes
3,991 Views
(@katrice)
Black Soror, Selfie-stick poseur
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1068
 
Posted by: @snowonvenus

However everytime I do it, it feels just about right.  

 

A sign you're on the right track.

 

Liber Samekh would be my preference if I won't come up with a self-made ritual which feels powerful enough. I assume this may be up to destiny.

If you go with Samekh, the Stratton Kent booklet will serve you well.  If you can find an affordable copy of Stephen Mace's Stealing the Fire From Heaven, he devotes a chapter to an analysis of the ritual which is also quite good. I'd also recommend looking at sources on the ritual in its context as part of the Greek Magical Papyri too. 

 

Good hint with the everyday life. Luckily my relative personality in this black iron prison is obsessive-compulsive enough to make every little thing into a ritual.

That can help a lot!   For an operation like this it helps to devote as much of your life to the work. 

 

I also realized I might have been unclear, I was also recommending regular use of the MMM section of Liber HHH in your regular practice during this. 

 


   
ReplyQuote
(@snowonvenus)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 27
 
Posted by: @katrice

 

A sign you're on the right track.

I guess so. Like today it's new moon. These days are just perfect for ritual workings. Same goes for full moon of course. But I don't force myself to do something on an imperfect timing. It's like I need to really build the perfect question up in my mind before I finally consult my tarot.

 

Yet you seem more like a Gemini/Virgo Archetype with some Aquarius & Pisces vibes. So it may be quite different for you.

 

If you go with Samekh, the Stratton Kent booklet will serve you well.  If you can find an affordable copy of Stephen Mace's Stealing the Fire From Heaven, he devotes a chapter to an analysis of the ritual which is also quite good. I'd also recommend looking at sources on the ritual in its context as part of the Greek Magical Papyri too. 

 

Read the Stratton Kent booklet today. That was refreshing, thanks!

It's interesting how he interprets the Set connection. However most juicy was his take on the elemental correspondences in the chakras. If you remember for him it's upside down, so earth is in the throat and air in the root. If I understood correctly it needs to be reversed with help of the HGA so the throat can communicate all it's power.

 

While we're at it have you found your personal holy grail regarding the elemental correspondences of the enochian watchtowers to the cardinal points? You could always argument with the subjective universe but like with the pronunciation there's a hunting feeling that a particular arrangement is most balanced and aesthetic.

The easiest and most common way is obviouly just following the Golden Dawn tradition, where Air is East, Fire South etc.

But something always bothered me about the GD correspondences. Consequently I'm experimenting with switching the watchtowers. I didn't find Donald Tyson's arrangement convincing as well. 

 

Recently on Paul Hughes Barlow's blog (who wrote a brilliant book about the Key Spread and the HGA which you might know) I stumbled upon Angelique Cook's book "Shamanism and the esoteric tradition". She works out how the old shamanic arrangement is most proper so: East = fire, South = Earth, West = Water and North = Air. That's the arrangement I'm testing right now. 

 

Nevertheless two other possibilities resonate quite hard as well:

1) clockwise round the reformed table of Raphael so we get: Air --> Water --> Fire --> Earth

2) following the fixed/cherumbim signs of the zodiac so it would be starting in the East: Earth (Taurus) --> Fire (Leo) --> Water (Scorpio) --> Air (Aquarius).

 

Finally Frater Shiva talks about the Chinese arrangement in his books, however I haven't tested it as of yet.

 

Thanks for your input, katrice, may the Phoenix arise. 


   
ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7974
 
Posted by: @snowonvenus

Finally Frater Shiva talks about the Chinese arrangement in his books, however I haven't tested it as of yet.

I cut my teeth on the 4 & 5 western elemental correspondences, but none of them had any practical (Virgo) application patterns. I saw early on that different folks (experts?) arranged the elements differently. My conclusion was, and remains, that the number 4 represents stability, but it's internally slippery. Does fire go in the east or the south? (South is safest).

Then I got to Chinese Oriental Medical School (University by name). The primary instructors were Chinese. They said, "Here is the 5-element (phase is the correct term) system. It is based on nature. Holy cow, but it not only makes sense, but it works (Virgo) when diagnosing a treating sick people.

Since they forced (forced) me to learn it their way ... and ALL of "them" have it in memory and in practice down exactly the same way, there is no distraction from some twit who says, "No, it's this way."  And then there's the gov, both in China and here at home (Europe, too) - their licensing exams reflect the exact same expectations.

The western correspondences are unstable. They may be stable for one person, but another will catch his balance with a different arrangement. Universal stability is found in the hard-working Chinese version.


   
ReplyQuote
(@katrice)
Black Soror, Selfie-stick poseur
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1068
 
Posted by: @snowonvenus

I guess so. Like today it's new moon. These days are just perfect for ritual workings. Same goes for full moon of course. But I don't force myself to do something on an imperfect timing. It's like I need to really build the perfect question up in my mind before I finally consult my tarot.

 

Yet you seem more like a Gemini/Virgo Archetype with some Aquarius & Pisces vibes.  

I'm not sure of Pisces but the rest is spot on. 😀 

 

Read the Stratton Kent booklet today. That was refreshing, thanks!

My pleasure!  I'm glad you enjoyed it and found it useful.

 

It's interesting how he interprets the Set connection. 

Set shows up in a number of the Hermetic writings of the time,which surprises people who think of him only as Egyptian Satan.

 

However most juicy was his take on the elemental correspondences in the chakras. If you remember for him it's upside down, so earth is in the throat and air in the root. If I understood correctly it needs to be reversed with help of the HGA so the throat can communicate all it's power.

It is a very interesting approach, and it surprised and intrigued me as well. 

 

While we're at it have you found your personal holy grail regarding the elemental correspondences of the enochian watchtowers to the cardinal points? You could always argument with the subjective universe but like with the pronunciation there's a hunting feeling that a particular arrangement is most balanced and aesthetic.

The easiest and most common way is obviouly just following the Golden Dawn tradition, where Air is East, Fire South etc.

I've always used the Golden Dawn model, it just works for me. Switching Air and Fire doesn't, which is weird as it does make more sense to have opposing elements actually opposite each other.   I've never been a fan of Tyson's work. 

I am fond of the dynamics of the Wu Xing, but have never used it as my default elemental model. 

Recently on Paul Hughes Barlow's blog (who wrote a brilliant book about the Key Spread and the HGA which you might know) 

I do not know that one!  Tell me more?

 

While we're exchanging book recommendations, Marcus Katz's After the Angel is focused on Abramelin, but is still an interesting account of the work in attaining the K&C. 

 

Thanks for your input, katrice, may the Phoenix arise. 

 

You're welcome. 


   
ReplyQuote
(@snowonvenus)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 27
 
Posted by: @shiva

 

Then I got to Chinese Oriental Medical School (University by name). The primary instructors were Chinese. They said, "Here is the 5-element (phase is the correct term) system. It is based on nature.

I see. Did some research about the system today to start memorizing the various correspondences.

Of course the biggest challenge is reconciling the western 4 with the 5 as well as getting the spiritual meaning of "metal" and "wood". If I understood rightly then metal equals western air and wood equals earth while TCM "earth" relates to akasha and the magician himself.

 

Supposing this is correct East would be Wood/Earth, South = Fire, West = Metal/Air and North = Water. 

Is this the accurate Chinese arrangement? Unfortunately I forgot where I found the graphics on your angelfire site.

 

Since they forced (forced) me to learn it their way ... and ALL of "them" have it in memory and in practice down exactly the same way, there is no distraction from some twit who says, "No, it's this way."  And then there's the gov, both in China and here at home (Europe, too) - their licensing exams reflect the exact same expectations.

So there's a stronger current when tons of people on this plane agree what's the proper arrangement?

The western correspondences are unstable. They may be stable for one person, but another will catch his balance with a different arrangement. Universal stability is found in the hard-working Chinese version.

Had already given up on universal stability. Thanks for the hope(ium)


   
ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7974
 
Posted by: @snowonvenus

Of course the biggest challenge is reconciling the western 4 with the 5 as well as getting the spiritual meaning of "metal" and "wood". If I understood rightly then metal equals western air and wood equals earth while TCM "earth" relates to akasha and the magician himself.

The challenge is easier than that. Fire = Fire, no sweat. Earth = Earth, heavy stuff. Western Air = Chinese Metal. Water = Water, flowing. Chinese Wood = Western Spirit or Aethyr.

The Chinese don't deal with the 4, as such, in medicine. Their original (ancient) configuration was 4 elements, with a 5th (Earth) in the center. Western Adepts and Magisters everywhere pull the same trick, but they usually put Aethyr (Wood) in the middle. This Chinese  ($ + 1) configuration is so old that I couldn't find an image with a quick search. This is the closest thing I could find ...

image

The basic correspondes are shown below. The Chi flows from top to bottom in the chart - when it gets to Water (at the bottom) it just goes back up to Wood to start over ... just like nature waters trees.

image

The correspondences remained the same, but the hard-working Chines physicians said, "This is too complex. Let's just put the phases in a circle and let the One Chi run through the mill ... continuously ...

image

The outside merry-go-round arrows are easy to follow in the generating cycle. Example - Wood gives rise to Fire.

The straight arrows inside are the control cycle. Example - Water controls Fire.

In terms of east meeting west, try this: The instrument of the western AIR element is the SWORD, which is made of ... METAL. (So are other instruments, but usually, when one thinks of metal, steel [iron?] probably comes first to mind)

The WOOD phase in China is seen as The General, whose duty it is "to maintain patency for the flow of Chi" - so that it flows smoothly everywhere. Western Aethyr is the medium within which the other 4 elements manifest and combine to form everything, everywhere.

Now you (anyone) must take this secret information and figure how to weave it into The Mass of the Phoenix (Ch 44 - Liber 333), and that will not only keep us on topic, but it will enhance your (anyone's) fiery rite.

Posted by: @snowonvenus

Is this the accurate Chinese arrangement?

I have posted the pic of the proper Oriental configurations and correspondences. I see the directions are not listed. The Chinese do it thus ...

 Earth (middle) moves (west) to Air (Metal), which condense to Water (north), then on to Wood (Spirit/Aethyr) in the (east), and on to the bonFire (south, where it goes back to Eart (middle)(ashes).

From the ashes (Earth), the Phoenix  rises in the Air, in the (west) ... repeat endlessly.

 

 


   
gurugeorge reacted
ReplyQuote
(@snowonvenus)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 27
 
Posted by: @katrice

 

Yet you seem more like a Gemini/Virgo Archetype with some Aquarius & Pisces vibes.  

I'm not sure of Pisces but the rest is spot on. 😀 

Must be convenient to have such a quick mind. But I suppose it has it's downside too (like everything else in our beloved cosmos)

 

Read the Stratton Kent booklet today. That was refreshing, thanks!

My pleasure!  I'm glad you enjoyed it and found it useful.

It really was the last little push needed to incorporate it regularly in my routine. 

Btw I talked about it with a Greek friend 2 days ago and she read it to me in the Greek original - sounds incredibly powerful. Even considered learning the original myself.

 

 

Set shows up in a number of the Hermetic writings of the time,which surprises people who think of him only as Egyptian Satan.

Good thing we read Kenneth Grant and know his 200 other attributions.

I've always used the Golden Dawn model, it just works for me. Switching Air and Fire doesn't, which is weird as it does make more sense to have opposing elements actually opposite each other. 

Right?

Enochian is such a complicated puzzle. You really need some humor to not despair of the contradictions.

And we haven't even spoken about the strange succession on the Tablet of Union.

Fortunately after some time I could see it as challenge to accept the imperfectness of this Assiah plane.

I've never been a fan of Tyson's work. 

Same. Just didn't pick me up emotionally.

I am fond of the dynamics of the Wu Xing, but have never used it as my default elemental model. 

With the help of Frater @Shiva 's statements above I started to understand it. But when I follow that train of thought it really clashes hard with Enochian. If wood = spirit/aethyr and Earth is in the middle...would it really imply I position the Tablet of Union in the east while placing the watchtower of earth on the ground / altar in the middle. Sounds quite progressive to me.

Recently on Paul Hughes Barlow's blog (who wrote a brilliant book about the Key Spread and the HGA which you might know) 

I do not know that one!  Tell me more?

"Tarot and the Magus" by Paul Hughes Barlow

He analyses the tarot cards in pairs like you haven't seen before. It's intellectually demanding, however not as convoluted as Grant. Most gratifying for me was his analyses towards the end of the Liber 231 spirits who seem to have channeled him the specific structure of the book. He even has something to say about the mercurial spirits of 231 (hard to find anything on the whole net) though not as much as I wished for.

His prime thesis is that the key spread can open your way to the HGA

 

While we're exchanging book recommendations, Marcus Katz's After the Angel is focused on Abramelin, but is still an interesting account of the work in attaining the K&C. 

Always liked how "After The Angel" inherently implies that Abramelin has worked though I regarded it as boastful in the beginning. 

I actually know him from the Holy Guardian Angel miscellany of Michail Cecchetelli, his chapter is called the same way. It surprised me in a positive way.


   
ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7974
 
Posted by: @snowonvenus

If wood = spirit/aethyr and Earth is in the middle...

In the west, Spirit is in the middle. In China, it's Earth.

The Chinese have this thing about "middle" and "yellow." Yellow is the color of Earth. China is the "middle kingdom" - it is yellow. It is the "middle of the Earth" (they suggest that China is the geographical center of the world.

The "middle way" is yellow. Th names Wang, Huang, Wong, Hwang (etc) all mean "yellow." The Earth is yellow and it sits in the middle of the other four phases.

When a patient has many problems, including Earth deficiency, and you (when licensed) must decide what to treat first, the basic rule is "Save the Earth."  - This means tonify the Earth phase - that way, the patient has the best chance of living. Use acupoint St[omach] 36 (3" below the knee), and give Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang herbal formula ("Tonify the Middle soup").

Finally (and this is from the olden days, before the hard-working Communist Party revived Chinese Medicine, purging it of woo-woo) - when the patient has a stomach or spleen (the "middle" complaint, certain invoking/evoking characters are written on a YELLOW piece of rice paper. The talisman is burned, its ashes are dissolved in water, which the patient drinks.

Since this is woo-woo (wu = Chinese Shamanism), the CCP removed it from the curriculum ... along with tracing a pentagram in the air with an acupuncture needle before inserting it in the patient.

The Secrets of Oriental Medicine have now been revealed, and we can get back to Enoch, or even the Firebird.

Posted by: @shiva

The Chinese do it thus ...

 Earth (middle) moves (west) ... etc

 


   
ReplyQuote
Page 2 / 2
Share: