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mika
 mika
(@mika)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 360
23/01/2012 11:46 pm  
"Azidonis" wrote:
I had a friend, a Thelemite, who's response to say homeless people begging for change or what-not, was to push them away, or down, tell them to "get a job", and walk on.

Is it necessarily "un-ethical" or "immoral" to act this way?

No, but it is necessarily ignorant.  He is judging these people based on the assumption that they could get jobs if they wanted to.  Many cannot, due to 1) Lack of proper healthcare, both physical and mental, 2) Lack of a physical mailing address which is usually necessary for the job seeking process, and 3) Lack of access to shower/bathing and laundering facilities which are needed to be clean and presentable for job interviews.

Anyway!  I would argue that ignorance (in particular the willful ignorance of people with privilege) is most definitely un-Thelemic.  Acting according to one's will requires understanding of actual reality, which requires facing one's ignorance head-on.  Your friend's "get a job" comment is based on assumptions, not reality, and for that reason imo can be considered un-Thelemic.  One might argue "But, but, he's 'doing what thou wilt!'"  I'd argue back that one cannot act according to one's will while ignorant, by definition.

Besides which, "it may be that yonder beggar is a king".  Your friend may want to meditate on the meaning of that passage until it actually sinks in.

"Azidonis" wrote:
I know, "tramp down the wretched and the weak", but I don't see that passage literally. Maybe it is to be taken literally? Maybe the Book, or Crowley/Aiwass wants us to run around playing whack-a-mole with those perceived as "wretched and weak"? I don't buy it.

No, me neither.  The "wretched and weak" that Crowley/Aiwass refers to are, from my perspective, the willfully ignorant people I mentioned above.  The people who already 'know better' or are smart enough to learn, who are presented with blatant reality, yet are too afraid to deal with it or too attached to their current beliefs or status or whatever or for whatever reason deny reality and the path laid out before them.

The "slaves" are the ignorant populace, the sheep, the 'domesticated primates' of RA Wilson, and they do serve. These robots go about their daily lives based on cultural, religious, family programming and never question their purpose or their place.  They are the inhabitants of Malkuth who not only never crossed the first veil into Yesod, they aren't even aware of an existence beyond their current state of being. That doesn't mean they should be mistreated or looked down upon.  It is not a moral judgment, just a shockingly blatant description.  "The slaves shall serve" in the sense that when people do not question reality, they do not become aware that they have choices in life, so they blindly "serve" whoever and whatever systems "programmed" them.  One can look at them with derision or compassion - that's up to you - but in the Thelemic context I interpret the word "slave" as a plain description not a moral judgment.

Now when you start talking about people who are actually aware of the first veil and beyond, who peered into the worlds of their minds and the subjectivity of perceptions, these people are no longer slaves.  These are the people who have the potential to become fully-realized "stars" through discipline and courageous committment to their Work, or to become "the wretched and the weak" through denial and avoidance.  One way to interpret "tamp down the wretched and the weak" is to "call bullsht on the BS artists" or "ignore the claims of people too afraid to walk the talk" or similar response.  The 'weakness' refers to their character, the (lack of) strength or committment to their work, not their physical state or job status or other personal judgment.  Ignorance is forgivable, willful ignorance is wretched.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
24/01/2012 12:55 am  

Solid analysis, Mika. Thanks for the input, and the link.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
24/01/2012 10:04 pm  
"Los" wrote:
"Camlion" wrote:
Now, Los likes to ridicule the idealistic notion of giving a fuck about his fellow man

Absolutely, in exactly the same way that I would ridicule any idealistic notions and actions based on idealistic notions.

in his doing so, we would be tempted to believe him were it not for the fact that he is constantly preaching to his fellow man here about Thelema.

Well, the difference, obviously, is that I'm not motivated by idealistic goals or the desire to create an "ideal" world. I don't give a fuck about my fellow man, in the sense that you're talking about: I'm just doing what I enjoy. And that includes talking about Thelema and, when appropriate, explaining Thelema to people -- some of whom might not have heard about it before.

You're rather awkwardly trying to acuse me of hypocrisy, but it just comes off as a weird obsession with me.

I think you're an interesting person, that's true. Someone who publicly advocates hacking off some of the Eight Limbs of Yoga (AC style Yoga), or at least reordering their priorities in favor of Pratyahara, all in a Thelemic context, is someone that interests me a bit.

As far as your doing things because you enjoy doing them, while criticizing others for doing the same sort of things, presumably because you assume they are not enjoying them but are only being unduly idealistic, yes, this is hypocrisy. Your excuse for it is too weak for even you to accept if it were given to you by anyone else. Binge eaters, for example are enjoying themselves while they binge, but that is no excuse. They lack the self-awareness to know why they are really doing what they're doing.

This, in fact, is the basis of your criticism; you assume that others lack the self-awareness to know whether they are doing their true Will or are being disingenuously idealistic, or otherwise misguided.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
19/03/2012 8:57 pm  

Fear teaches respect. Uncontrolled fear is what makes a person a slave but to control fear is what makes a person master of themselves.


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