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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
21/11/2010 3:20 am  

Is Daath a dimension of infinite knowledge or infinite gnosis? Do you have to be infinitely stupid/ignorant to cross Daath or do you have to be infinitely unwise? i.e., a fool.

What is the difference between knowledge and gnosis if any? I guess is my question.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2689
21/11/2010 3:42 am  

no difference in my book they are both capable of transformation and both have physical ,metaphsyical and mental aspects.
just 2 names for the same thing in my humble opinion. gnosis just sounds more mysterious.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5202
21/11/2010 5:36 pm  
"ApeOfTheApeOfThot" wrote:
What is the difference between knowledge and gnosis if any?

"Knowledge," in this case I believe, refers to mental knowledge, called Manas by the Hindoos, called Intellect by us Westernoos, which is based on thoughtforms built up through experience. This includes the experience of prior existences as well as the present incarnation.

"Gnosis" is direct perception, a "knowing" based on the input one is receiving from somewhere above Da'ath. It could be the Atman at Chokmah, it could be the Monad at Kether. Wherever it is, it is a perception from the viewpoint of cosmic (or primordial) consciousness, rather than from the viewpoint of one's own point of view.

"Gnosis" is related to "QBL," the root letters of Qabalah. QBL means "to receive."

So, maybe one is "built up" and the other is "seeing what's already there."


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
21/11/2010 7:31 pm  

Agreed with Shiva. It could be the difference between linear forms of mental knowledge and intuitive flashes of a symbol that might reveal all steps of that linear knowledge simultaneously. As far as I sort of understood it, Da'ath is "built up" until it can be sacrificed on the altar and licked up by the flaming tongues in order that you may "see what's already there". Gnosis is also referred to in Chaos Magick as an altered state of consciousness used for imprinting a sigil, invokation, spell, etc. into the subconscious, and even this might suggest it's a more dynamic term than Da'ath. But yes, I agree with Shiva.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2689
21/11/2010 8:18 pm  

i think you can have direct knowing and experience and call it knowledge too.
like i have carnal knowledge of someone that is the same as gnosis


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
21/11/2010 8:26 pm  

Yeah I don't doubt that; I just think that when these terms are mystically referred to they start to gather a specific meaning around them and that's just sort of the difference I've picked up on when it comes to functionality of the words.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5202
22/11/2010 2:00 pm  
"christibrany" wrote:
i think you can have direct knowing and experience and call it knowledge too.

Yes you can, but it depends on which came first: The chicken or the egg.

When one "encounters" Gnosis, or QBL, or Direct Perception, or has a jnana yoga experience, the perception must then filter down into the mind - and then it can be "known." So it all ends up being "knowledge," but in cases of direct perception, the perception itself is more like a state of being - later it becomes "knowing" as in "hard fact knowledge."

We've all heard about "being vs. "knowing." Well, that's the nature of the subject under discussion.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
22/11/2010 2:18 pm  

One of the illustrations I like has to do with space-like time. When one 'expands his consciousness', a theory offered is that he is actually maximizing his subjective time to his objective time, or becoming more 'space-like' rather than 'time-like'. This happens during deep meditation and sleep, in which dreaming activity may go through three hours of material, while you were only sleeping for five minutes. One explanation is that you were moving so much faster than the speed of light that time became more 'space-like' or subjective, rather than objective. When this happens, we may receive 'gnosis'. Rather than reading a text about a subject for 10 pages to understand it, one possible explanation for gnosis would be that you were entering a 'space-like' consciousness in which time is so stretched out that you may receive an imprint of a symbol on the mind containing all of the information of those 10 pages (like the seed of a tree), yet in one flash you receive the symbol representing all of the information and have taken the time to process it so quickly that when you return to 'time-like' consciousness, it has become "hard fact knowledge" in an impossible time. I always thought that was a fun way to illustrate and toy with the idea of gnosis vs. daath.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
22/11/2010 8:02 pm  
"MysticLogician" wrote:
One of the illustrations I like has to do with space-like time. When one 'expands his consciousness', a theory offered is that he is actually maximizing his subjective time to his objective time, or becoming more 'space-like' rather than 'time-like'. This happens during deep meditation and sleep, in which dreaming activity may go through three hours of material, while you were only sleeping for five minutes. One explanation is that you were moving so much faster than the speed of light that time became more 'space-like' or subjective, rather than objective. When this happens, we may receive 'gnosis'. Rather than reading a text about a subject for 10 pages to understand it, one possible explanation for gnosis would be that you were entering a 'space-like' consciousness in which time is so stretched out that you may receive an imprint of a symbol on the mind containing all of the information of those 10 pages (like the seed of a tree), yet in one flash you receive the symbol representing all of the information and have taken the time to process it so quickly that when you return to 'time-like' consciousness, it has become "hard fact knowledge" in an impossible time. I always thought that was a fun way to illustrate and toy with the idea of gnosis vs. daath.

Interesting post, MysticLogician. I agree, though of course that seems only part of the story. The gist of it, expanding conscious increases the probability of gnosis occurring, sounds right.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/11/2010 1:39 am  

Well said. Good thing gnosis seems to be pleasurable and intelligent! 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/12/2010 4:18 pm  

I think it is a dimension of both knowledge and gnosis. Da'ath is equated with death which signifies the death of your "mind". in other words letting go of your mind and being one with your "higher spiritual self". which would mean infinite knowledge and gnosis. (...initiation maybe?)


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
19/12/2010 1:21 am  

Yes that is true. Da'ath translates into gnosis in greek and signifies not only a change in conscious awareness and perception but also into new level of interaction with the lower sephira. Unbound by the "tree" (the physical universe and its manifestations and extrapolations), Da'ath (or concentrated infinite intelligence i.e. supraterrestial knowledge) is able to serve as a gateway if you will, into "other modes of perception". In these places mundane knowledge cannot penetrate or endure, if merely for reason of divergence of quality and consistency. Oil and water. A true change of being must occur before one may enter da'ath. This change has been known as Gnosis. Its funny that the very change itself IS the gate which one becomes, opens, and moves through simultaneously.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
19/12/2010 2:23 am  

ok, assuming for a moment that knowlege is mundane and gnosis is this kind of super knowledge or transcendent knowledge, where is the tipping point between the two?


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5328
19/12/2010 9:36 am  
"Omnihilus" wrote:
Yes that is true.

If you're going to create and use a second account to use as a sock puppet, at least use a different writing style!

See: http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=57073#57073

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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michaelclarke18
(@michaelclarke18)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1264
19/12/2010 1:17 pm  

If you're going to create and use a second account to use as a sock puppet, at least use a different writing style!

Has anyone ever done that, and ended up having an argument with themselves?


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
19/12/2010 2:26 pm  
"michaelclarke18" wrote:
Has anyone ever done that, and ended up having an argument with themselves?

We do it often 🙂

I kid... I kid...

I do wonder how anyone can imagine having dual accounts wont be noticed. Its suspicious any time two new forum members appear and start interacting immediately...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
19/12/2010 2:57 pm  

It's not dual accounts, its 2 people that happen to be using the same computer..honestly..you really can't tell the difference? It's a girl and a guy..that happen to share the same interests


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wolfangel
(@wolfangel)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 32
20/12/2010 12:22 am  

If i remember correctly Daath is formed from Chokmah and Binah and contains a greater and lesser expression of knowledge expressed as two different faces. Understanding and wisdom are received directly from a moment of gnosis, for example a NDE.

Daath can be considered the word or logos that is spoken by chokmah to Binah to begin the formation of the sephirah beneath the abyss.

It is also the point between Kether and Tiphareth, study of the tarot on these paths may reveal a greater sense of the relationship and what Daath is/Isn't.

Study the High Priestess and Empress and their possible relationships, Book of Thoth makes an excellent reference.

Interesting idea for Daath as a kind of crossroads on the tree as well, thou there are many more points at crossroads that could be used as working spaces.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
21/12/2010 2:19 am  

So, if Chokmah and Binah created a single account here on Lashtal and began talking to each other that would be Da'athal?


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