Reductio ad absurdu...
 

Reductio ad absurdum as Emotional Plague  

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dom
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11/05/2019 8:24 pm  

page 206 Chapter 8 MEXICO Regardie's Eye in the Triangle (New Falcon Publications 2011) Regardie is critical of Mannix's "cynical denunciation of magic and occult fields". He says that Symonds has a similar attitude. The entire field of psychical research denounced as fraud is something that Regardie could not accept.

He states that such folk "must have a psychic scotoma of massive proportions ...and (can) never acknowledge the existence of anything that might briefly challenge the narrow view they have formed of life. A larger wider outlook must be positively frightening to them. It is safer to rifdicule, condemn, to employ the method of reductio ad absurdum. This again is the Emotional Plague described so well by Reich.


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Jamie J Barter
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13/05/2019 10:33 pm  

And so the point you're making/ wanting to discuss is what?

Where is the closing quotation mark meant to be in your second paragraph to distinguish your own comments from those of Regardie (or even Mannix)?

Also, as usual it would be helpful to have a bit more to go on re. the quotes to round out the context a bit & all that. But it's still a bit of a fag to have to type all that out, eh?

Norma N Joy Conquest


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dom
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13/05/2019 10:57 pm  

must have a psychic scotoma of massive proportions …and (can) never acknowledge the existence of anything that might briefly challenge the narrow view they have formed of life. A larger wider outlook must be positively frightening to them. It is safer to rifdicule, condemn, to employ the method of reductio ad absurdum. This again is the Emotional Plague described so well by Reich. is the quote.

Well Jamie the title gives away what it's about doesn't it?. The context as I said is the scorn which AC's biographers (prior to Regardie) poured on AC and particularly his interest in magic which, I am compelled to remind you, most people in society (especially so-called scientists) think is bullshit, eccentric and silly. Reminds me of our pal Los 9=2. Oh damn I mentioned him.


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Jamie J Barter
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13/05/2019 11:33 pm  

@dom :

Well Jamie the title gives away what it’s about doesn’t it?
Well OK, I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that. (Reductio ad absurdum is [an example of] the Emotional Plague described so well by Reich.) So: where do we go from here then?

[…] Reminds me of our pal Los 9=2.
What, he's been promoted from 8=3? I must have missed the news, please fill me in do!

Oh damn I mentioned him.
Once upon a time that should have been sufficient to evoke his Presence. But not anymore it seems, alas & alack; needs must find new & further ways to conjure your one-time guru forth...

... "Los, Los, Lama Sabachthani"?
N Joy


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the_real_simon_iff
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13/05/2019 11:42 pm  

dom, 93!

You cleared up the quoting thingie (there were no end quotes), but you haven't answered Jamie, concerning what is your point? Do you want to discuss Regardie's view? Or Mannix' views? Or simply say that Regardie used Reich as a kind of proof for his point?

I don't get it either.

"A plague implies a highly contagious disease that can become epidemic (rapidly widespread) or pandemic (an epidemic throughout many countries)." (that's from some Reich website) Now if you can tell me (us) how Mannix (probably .1 percent of current "Thelemites" have read him) or Regardie (probably 5 percent of current "Thelemites" have read him) are even qualified to talk about "emotional plagues", I (we) might be able to jump in.

Have you read Mannix?

I think you have a point (the thread title at least has) but I don't see what there is to discuss. If you take just your thread title you would be better off with Climate Change Denyers.

What is your point exactly?

Love=Law
Lutz

If you just want to state that early biographies of Crowley suck in many ways, you are right.


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dom
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14/05/2019 7:44 am  

The main point is that, ironically enough, the deniers of magic are more often than not functioning irrationally. Their denial is emotionally driven.


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the_real_simon_iff
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14/05/2019 9:52 pm  

OK, I didn't get this.

As it is the case with deniers, probably the deniers of there-is-no-such-thing-as-magic* are most of the time emotionally driven also. And the strict yay-sayers probably also... and since science is often emotionally driven also, many of those will quote the science findings to their liking.

* insert a variety of denier-topics: climate change, gender issues, racism problems ... take your pick.

Love=Law
Lutz


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dom
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14/05/2019 10:59 pm  

. And the strict yay-sayers probably also

Well yeah but the cynical biographers of AC were not those that wholly accept magic unquestioningly i.e. religionists, children or paranoid schizos. They were set-ting themselves up as rational commentators. As the overriding paradigms of the modern world are strictly materialist this particular type of hater's hate is insidious because he has the preordained back-up of the status quo.

Like our pal Los used to say when questioning those who accepted alternative paradigms (something like e.g.) "Go into your local bar and start talking about manifesting magic or communicating with entities and watch them laugh long and hard"

In other words fear "the laughter of the folk folly" AL Cp3 17.


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Michael Staley
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14/05/2019 11:28 pm  

@dom

Like our pal Los used to say when questioning those who accepted alternative paradigms (something like e.g.) “Go into your local bar and start talking about manifesting magic or communicating with entities and watch them laugh long and hard”

You seem to quote this with approval, but so bloody what? Why should I walk into my local pub and start talking "about manifesting magic or communicating with entities". Why would I waste my time? And if I did do that, and got derided, what conclusion should I draw from that?

Why should I, you or anybody else fear "the laughter of the folk folly"?


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dom
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14/05/2019 11:56 pm  

Hypothetical situation Michael. Not a strictly "to do" exercise.


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Shiva
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15/05/2019 6:29 am  

I was once asked to write an article on Karate training for Black Belt magazine (1963). It got published.

Than another martial arts mag put out the call for articles (1972). So I submitted an article about Aikido. It was an overview of the history, along with tales of seemingly superhuman performances.

(These "superhuman" acts were merely early tales of the power of Chi (Chee-Qi-Ki-Prana), of which most people are at least vaguely familiar today).

Uh, oh! This (article) was akin to walking in the pub and proclaiming: I am the Truth and in my turban is wrapped nothing but God!

The editor wrote back to me and said he wasn't interested in fairy tales. "What I want is stories where you go into an ethnic bar and insult their culture. I want to see multiple assailants and them all broken and bloody. When you can deliver that kind of stuff I'd be interested."

My career as a martial arts writer thus fell aside and I went on to pursue a Solar Angel. No, no, don't feel sorry for me (or gloat at my dismal failure), for just 3 or so years ago I published Basic Aikido, and When Karate Came to America. I was there when it came. Even now, I have stopped grinding out the Megatron videos, and turned to writing The Mysteries of Tai Chi. As a gratuity, I will offer free pdf copies to LAShTAL readers, when it's done. I am now on page 4.

Putting all that personal stuff aside, the reactions of the pubsters and the editor give us reason to use a sense of discrimination as we promote Thelema and its attendant curiosities in the world ... or as we envision ourselves striding into a crowded, racially-different, bar - and calling out insults.

Therion called upon us to proclaim the principles of the A.'.A.'. everywhere (even so little as we understand), and he encouraged us to invite royalty and politicians into the OTO, so that Thelema might take hold in a more vigorous manner in the Establishment.

Get a grip! Father, I have sinned. Mother, please look the other way. For I do not give a copy of the three-fold Book of Law to everyone that I meet, And I do not greet everyone by announcing, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

In terms of the Original Topic ... yes, the biographers were bad. They were pre-judiced. That means, they already had their opinion and their specific mindset is easily spotted by modern (informed) readers.

The earliest biography, if it can be called as such, The Star in the West, was a bit different. J.F.C. Fuller, who I believe rose to Brigadier, not bad, sort of set V.V.V.V.V., and his servant AC up on a pedestal ... if I remember correctly. He later became disenchanted and had to be expelled ... if I remember correctly.

How shall we present him? Let me count the ways.


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Tiger
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15/05/2019 7:35 am  

oh cachinnateiophous

yes
let’s hear about J.F.C,

the motion set going,
and the disenchanted expulsion .

and those
emotionally called to posit
Hypothetical situations , submitting count
are also welcome .

Perhaps reducing the side tracking
to infer
the post .


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christibrany
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15/05/2019 4:39 pm  

@Shiva
Was JFC Fuller actually expelled or did he merely stop training with Crowley bc he was disgusted at AC's lack of stand-by-your-man in the Looking Glass case with Jones?

As for reductio ad absurdum, if magick didn't ever work, then there wouldn't be so many wannabes?


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dom
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15/05/2019 11:05 pm  

@shiva

was once asked to write an article on Karate training for Black Belt magazine (1963). It got published.
Than another martial arts mag put out the call for articles (1972). So I submitted an article about Aikido. It was an overview of the history, along with tales of seemingly superhuman performances.
(These “superhuman” acts were merely early tales of the power of Chi (Chee-Qi-Ki-Prana), of which most people are at least vaguely familiar today).

Breaking 3 or 4 house bricks with side of hand?

Uh, oh! This (article) was akin to walking in the pub and proclaiming: I am the Truth and in my turban is wrapped nothing but God!
The editor wrote back to me and said he wasn’t interested in fairy tales. “What I want is stories where you go into an ethnic bar and insult their culture. I want to see multiple assailants and them all broken and bloody. When you can deliver that kind of stuff I’d be interested.”

You know who J.Jonah Jamieson is? Reminds of him ha.

My career as a martial arts writer thus fell aside and I went on to pursue a Solar Angel.

J.J.J. gave you a blessing in disguise.

No, no, don’t feel sorry for me (or gloat at my dismal failure)

No I'm not, luckily it happened...well, not luck but something else.

, for just 3 or so years ago I published Basic Aikido, and When Karate Came to America. I was there when it came. Even now, I have stopped grinding out the Megatron videos, and turned to writing The Mysteries of Tai Chi. As a gratuity, I will offer free pdf copies to LAShTAL readers, when it’s done. I am now on page 4.

Alright!!

Therion called upon us to proclaim the principles of the A.’.A.’. everywhere (even so little as we understand), and he encouraged us to invite royalty and politicians into the OTO, so that Thelema might take hold in a more vigorous manner in the Establishment.
Get a grip! Father, I have sinned. Mother, please look the other way. For I do not give a copy of the three-fold Book of Law to everyone that I meet, And I do not greet everyone by announcing, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”

3:39. and to each man and woman that thou meetest, were it but to dine or to drink at them, it is the Law to give. Then they shall chance to abide in this bliss or no; it is no odds. Do this quickly!


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Shiva
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16/05/2019 6:49 am  

CS: Was JFC Fuller actually expelled or did he merely stop ...?

It is my belief that I read that he was actually expelled. I cannot remember where. But expulsions were/are so common throughout the historical thread. It is one of the things that make me laugh (the number and frequency of expulsions). You aren't reall anyone of merit until you've been expelled from at least one society.

d: Breaking 3 or 4 house bricks with side of hand?

No, that's kid's stuff. (Almost) anyone can be taught how to do that.

d: Do this quickly!

Oh, don't be silly. Give me a few days to think about it.


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Jamie J Barter
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19/05/2019 9:01 pm  

@dom :

"[...] Reminds me of our pal Los 9=2."
--- What, he’s been promoted from 8=3? ...

There's still no clarification on this. It can't be a double typo, can it? So what is the explanation behind it, if this isn't just some uninformative trollism and/or careless misinformation on your part?

Though it could almost be an example of reduction ad absurdum, in itself, couldn't it? (could even be "reduced" further, to 10=1 ...) But this couldn't be your motive/-ation could it, seeing as how you're normally quoting Los with unalloyed admiring approval & generally pumping him up?

"The truth", please
N Joy


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ignant666
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19/05/2019 9:24 pm  

Jamie: I think it possible the young lad is having his little joke in promoting/inflating his ex-High Holy Goo-Roo, the S.'. H.'. Phallus Of A Goat we all know and love.

I think we can count david as more than 90% recovered from Septic Thelema.


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Jamie J Barter
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19/05/2019 10:06 pm  

Possibly, but david/ dom/ anon/ Williams has a past history" of being exceedingly mercurial & changing his viewpoint, sometimes 180 deg. at the drop of a hat!

Fair comment or would you care to refute or repudiate that further, david/ dom/ anon/ Williams? (And do you have a 'real' name or at least one you wish to be known by? So that we can then ignore it, I mean --- jest joking!)

I said "jest joking",
N Joy


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Shiva
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19/05/2019 10:26 pm  

jb: ... has a past history” of being exceedingly mercurial & changing his viewpoint, sometimes 180 deg. at the drop of a hat!

Say, I think Mr Crowley did the same annoying thing.


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Jamie J Barter
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19/05/2019 10:45 pm  

So he did (on occasions) --- just fancy that! Maybe david/ dom/ Williams/ anon must be his reincarnation...?

... NOT !
N JOy


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dom
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19/05/2019 11:51 pm  

@jamiebarter

There’s still no clarification on this. It can’t be a double typo, can it? So what is the explanation behind it, if this isn’t just some uninformative trollism and/or careless misinformation on your part?

Might've been a reference to your joke? The one about Los 8=3 and by now...…. he must be 9=2? By the way what became of Hessle or as Jim Eshelman called him, "Hassle".


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Jamie J Barter
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20/05/2019 12:22 am  

@dom :

Might’ve been a reference to your joke? The one about Los 8=3 and by now……. he must be 9=2?
Might've been ... but then again, "on the other hand", might not've been --- if you see what I mean?

By the way what became of Hessle or as Jim Eshelman called him, “Hassle”.
Perhaps metaphorically speaking, he pre-emptively got on his hoss and rode outta town before he could be hissed at 'n' hustled away by the membership offa the forum? In a manner of speaking that is, of course. Or, looking at it again from a different perspective, perhaps he didn't? Sort of thing. Not ever, not nohow.

Mercurially yours,
N-Jyoo


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ignant666
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20/05/2019 3:30 am  

Novices can gain valuable tips observing Jamie B's current refusal to prefer one thing over another- "maybe yes, maybe no". The grey-beards nod sagely,as is our wont.


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Tiger
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20/05/2019 8:40 am  

Mercurially yours,
being
fleshed out


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dom
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06/06/2019 1:41 pm  

Re OP. Jealousy is a force. The Egyptians knew this and incorporated it into the IAO myth-formula. Set wants to do Osiris. I think it would be more accurate to say jealousy being barricaded and denied by the ego makes the force build up and explode like a Dutch dyke collapsing. Freud, who knew about the Cabala (which is an offspring of earlier Egyptian thought) and was deeply interested in Egyptian myths unearthed the Archimedean force of jealousy and incorporated it into his central Oedipal revelation. Every boy must face this force if he is to grow. Similarly this led him to create his penis-envy/jealousy theory for girls.

How is this relevant to Set and his jealousy and reductive materialism? Set in one sense wants power over the human soul and wants to squeeze it out of existence. What better way to do this via intellectual movements. Set can be seen as the god of jealousy's destructiveness and as the god of reductive materialism.

More details here;

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/sothic-cycles-seth-satan-demiurge-the-god-of-the-materialistic-world-view/

Set is said to arrive here in 1,460 year cycles ;

The rebel Pharaoh Akhanaten (aimed to destroy the gods and replace them with worship of a physical Sun. Noone had ever formulated such a materialistic concept up until then) 1321 B.C

The cult-tool of (Gnosticism’s) Demiurge ie the enfleshment of the divine (Christ/Christianity) which was distinct to western civilization and paved the way for the western scientific revolution. I39 A.D.

Newton’s scientific material-reductionist mechanistic revolution 1599 A.D.

"Now I a fourfold vision see And a fourfold vision is given to me Tis fourfold in my supreme delight And three fold in soft Beulahs night And twofold Always. May God us keep From Single vision & Newtons sleep" ~ Blake

The beginning of the outright squeezing away of occult thought and outlook.

1321 + 1599 = 2,920 A.D.

I wouldn't be surprised if 2,920 A.D. sees some sort of attempt by advanced A.I. systems trying to enslave human existence on earth much like the sci-fi series of Terminator movies.

Anyway just an interesting pattern-finding exercise there. I am not saying it's all real and you must take heed or anything.


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