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gurugeorge
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Not forgetting right wing Fascist revolutions also delusional. 

I've noticed you're very keen on upholding this idea ūüôā¬† Personally, I'd rather look at it like this:-

There's the extreme of "tightness" and the extreme of "looseness."  Fascism (the extreme of which would be something like Sparta, or Plato's Republic, or the extreme social stratification of the law code of Manu) represents tightness.  Is it all bad?  Not necessarily, any more than sitting around a campfire singing Kumbaya is necessarily all good.

Maybe think of it in evolutionary terms, or in terms of the immune system.¬† Since the future is unforeseeable (bracketing the possibility of high levels of specialist clairvoyant skill), you need as many potential "locks" for as many potential unforeseen future "keys" floating around as possible.¬† Fascism, for example, might be the only thing that's of any use if there's an alien invasion ūüėČ

Communist revolutions are more delusional than Fascist.  Fascist socialism has always worked and functioned well economically, Communism less so.  The problem is that Communism is the introjection of a more "cosmic" religious viewpoint into the world, where it doesn't really fit.  People just aren't equal, either as individuals or as ethnic groups and races.  They're only equal from a "cosmic" point of view, or a "God's eye" point of view, in which differences that are salient fade into insignificance from a sufficiently lofty perspective (if you imagine a smooth surface, zoom in microscopically and it has all sorts of bumps and lumps and irregularities).  

So if you base your social system on a delusion, you'll get a delusional socioeconomic system.  This was the problem and one of the several "crises of Marxism" that led to major revisions of Marxism, one of which was Fascism itself.  Many very sincere and dedicated communists had found that the predicted working class solidarity wasn't really forthcoming (not least because the working class is innately split up by virtue of each group of workers' fortunes being tied up with the fortunes of the business they work for).  One response was to notice that nationalism provided a ready-made working class solidarity that could be harnessed in an anti-liberal direction: hence, the first major Fascist theoreticians were ex-Communists. 

Dialectical movement.


Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Okay, I'm asking for your free Epistle on the subject. Sure you can have my first born kid, his name is AZAZEL.

Children whose names begin with "A" are Fools and they do not exist (Atu 0), so they are not acceptable. Due to your hesitation and the supply chain crisis, plus inflationary flatuation, the price has gone up. If you are passing through New Mexico, you must stop by to say Hell-o.

Here's the really interesting part. Paroketh is a "veil." Okay. So what? I had an orthodox Jew working "under" me (on the teaching staff. I had met him in Colorado when we for med the Colorado Acupuncture Assn - he ended up teaching in San Diego. One day I asked him, "What does Paroketh mean?" 

He replied, "Oh that. It means a bowl, or a covering." He made a curvy gesture with his hands, as if stroking an inverted bowl. Now that you have that secret info, right from the horse's mouth so to speak, you no longer need the Chapter, and you needn't feel obligated to say "Hell-o."

But I'll give it to you anyway ...

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Check him out if haven't already, tell me what you think.

No, thank you. I am visually and hearing impaired. I do not watch yourTub videos (any more). I will be moving my videos from that Borgly sight as soon as I have time.

Posted by: @katrice

More extreme than just yelling "Apo pantos kakodaimonos" at them. 

And the peasants got their land back. Part of the insurrection was to prohibit the Church from owning land.

 


toadstoolwe
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@shiva Thank you!  I'll enjoy reading it.  New Mexico is a beautiful state, I used to have an aunt and Uncle who lived in Alburquerque.  And you are correct AZAZEL doesn't exist.  


toadstoolwe
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@shiva What is a "Borgly sight"?


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

.¬† Fascism, for example, might be the only thing that's of any use if there's an alien invasion ūüėČ

..and you just summed up the essence of Fascism...find an illegal alien to rile up division whilst unifying the classes of a nation.  You provided a convincing argument for Fascism but ultimately it's about Jung's shadow given the reins to control, is that ever justifiable?  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

What is a "Borgly sight"?

A site controlled by The Borg.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

ultimately it's about Jung's shadow given the reins to control, is that ever justifiable?  

Yeah. If, and when, the aliens are defeated, and everything goes back to "pre-invasion status." The problem you are describing is when the leaders of the defensive maneuvers hang on to power/control - after the emergency has passed.

 


toadstoolwe
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@shiva The Borgs are awesome!  "Resistance is futile" Are they like Thelemites, all having one mind?


Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

The Borgs are awesome!  "Resistance is futile" Are they like Thelemites, all having one mind?

Excuse me for getting confused by mixed metaphors and idle idyllic speculations ... I almost fell down and had a fit. Where you there when the Fit hit the Shan (of Iraq)?

1. Borgs (plural) is incorrect. There is only one Borg.

2. Resistance is not futile. Captain Janeway [sic?] defeated The Borg by inserting a virus into its comm system. I will do the same to you if you don't steer back on topic. I believe magickal instruments were mentioned.

3. Show me two Thelemites who are of the same mind - and I'll show you a laboratory-grown clone.

4. It is a great occasion when two Thelemites meet and find they have a few things in common. It is a major event when they find out they have a few points of worldview that they share. If it turns out they agree on everything except, say, which beer is tastier, then they should immediately find a third person (the triad) who thinks exactly like they do, minus the beer which is banned, and instantly (without thinking) form an Order that has no dues, and will save us all.

5. Alternatively, the Universal Mind is the same for anybody (who can get into that state). This is Atma, The participants do not think alike, because they are not thinking. They are perceiving [whatever is currently available] directly. Code word: Gnosis - the G is silent for a reason. So, if two (2) Gnostics perceive the same gnosis, they should immediately find five (5) persons (the seven secret chiefs) who perceive directly as they do, minus the beer which is still banned, and instantly (without forthought) form an Order that has seven lineages, no dues, and will make sure it never happens again in this Aeon.

I hope this helps to clear your mind.

 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @toadstoolwe

What is a "Borgly sight"?

A site controlled by The Borg.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

ultimately it's about Jung's shadow given the reins to control, is that ever justifiable?  

Yeah. If, and when, the aliens are defeated, and everything goes back to "pre-invasion status." The problem you are describing is when the leaders of the defensive maneuvers hang on to power/control - after the emergency has passed.

 

Oh that's predictable as well, what happens then is they turn on each other internally, this is usually known as purging.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


toadstoolwe
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@shiva "Any sufficiently advanced technology is undesignable from magic" Arthur C. Clarke. 


Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is undesignable from magic"

And what is the meaning of this well-known phrase, in terms of this thread?

 


toadstoolwe
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@shiva Nothing!


Shiva
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The topic was Magickal Instruments. It might help some folks to understand that these "tools" merely represent a "power" or an "element" within or own being. Taking the five principal instruments (representing the 5-elements), if we start with Earth - 

The Earth element is heavey. A big coin made out of gold. Looking closely, we see that it is the vehicle itself - something we have to lug around, all over the many places. Specifically, according to the Chins, the Earth "phase" is the flesh, the muscles, which pretty much define our form.

According to Liber A, the Disk is to be wrapped in green silk. The Chins would advise yellow. Go figure. Things are not the same on opposite sides of our Globe.

Then we're supposed to make a design. This design is supposed to be concentric, with any item balanced on the other side ... balanced around the mid-point (Hadit) ...

image

Frater Achad's Pentacle Design

... not balanced side-by-side up a vertical midline, like a Lamen, like most first-attempts loo (before they are rejected). 

Should anybody look at it? Touch it, leaving fingerprints? These were the original inquiries in this thread. Let me think about a proper answer ... as I go out to perform the necessary adjustments in a gutter-hanger (drilling steel is dangerous) ...

[break]

Three down, two to go- no injuries or startlement. The general and specific implications of the Arcane Tradition indicate and imply that No, this is a deal between you and your other self, preferably the higher one and, no, nobody else needs to be involved.

That's all I can say without seeming to issue instructions or [gasp] teach anybody what to do. In practical, down-to-Earth matters, I have been known to display a Disk in the course of ceremonial rites. Since hardly anybody goes around with a briefcase full of magickal instruments (see my mobile Feng Shui case), it has been my honor, or duty, or foolishness, to provide a Disk wherein there were 5 officers and one of them was Earth, and so they handled my disk.

And to finish up by being really honest, I have never had any repercussions, or influx of evil vapours, or accusations, or anything "negative" come about because somebody saw or touched my Toys-TM. But then, nobody ever had the opportunity to do such a thing when the instruments were in active use over periods of days or weeks.


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva Shouldn't a Magician worth his or her salt forge and make their instruments?  I had a friend who was a Odinist and Hermetist.  He had the advantage of being a skilled blacksmith and was able to forge his own metal using the elemental metals to produce the appropriate alloys that corresponded to planetary influences.  Sun=gold, Moon=silver, Mars=iron, Venus-copper etc.  In a sense he was an alchemist also, an ancient science.  I would go as far as to say, that time, energy and labor in making your own instruments does infuse them with a certain spirit.  My own "magickal" skill is my art work, a sort of visual mediation that occupies my time and brings me personal fulfillment.


katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

The topic was Magickal Instruments. It might help some folks to understand that these "tools" merely represent a "power" or an "element" within or own being.

Don Webb has a One Year Manual style book coming out later this year.  I found it interesting that, while he naturally includes making the instruments as part of it, he includes a ritual for internalizing them, ie acknowledging that they represent a power or an element within our own being and becoming more independent from physical tools at the end. 

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Shouldn't a Magician worth his or her salt forge and make their instruments?  I had a friend who was a Odinist and Hermetist.  He had the advantage of being a skilled blacksmith and was able to forge his own metal using the elemental metals to produce the appropriate alloys that corresponded to planetary influences.

That is really impressive!  

Have you ever read Black Easter by James Blish? Fiction, but including ideas rooted in real grimoire magick. The main character has a scene where he explains how he hand-made all of his own instruments, including blacksmithing and glass-blowing. 

 

 


Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Shouldn't a Magician worth his or her salt forge and make their instruments

Yes, yes. Salt is not needed, but fire is. Magicians may skip the metal shop and simply buy a silver chalice or a razor-sword. This seems to work well, though I'd never buy a wand (as opposed to making it). People who read books and buy all their tools ready-made and blessed or consecrated are known as armchair magicians. They don't do the work.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I would go as far as to say, that time, energy and labor in making your own instruments does infuse them with a certain spirit.

It's called The Labor of Preparation. see: 777.

 


toadstoolwe
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@katrice Thank you for your comment!  I will definitely be checking out Black Easter, because, no,  I have not read it, But Iam looking forward to it.


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ignant666
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There is the injunction in some old grimoire to buy an egg "without haggling", which, AC comments, shows the sort of people that grimoire was directed towards.

But i have often heard this injunction repeated with regard to purchased magickal tools, most often, as Shiva notes, at least the blade of the knife/sword, and the cup. Both of course quite challenging to fabricate acceptably. And then that lamp that never goes out... oy vey!

This injunction to buy without haggling is of course difficult to follow in these days of internet shopping splendor, unless one just clicks on the first search result or something.


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva I hear you.  That friend of mine I told you about made a nifty ceremonial head covering for me from the skin and head of a taxidermied wildcat.  For payment, I gave him some deer antlers and a human skull.  (The skull was a medical school specimen, no one was hurt in the process of acquiring the skull.)


toadstoolwe
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@ignant666 Easy for Crowley to say, he had just one of his toadies buy it for him.


gurugeorge
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

.and you just summed up the essence of Fascism...find an illegal alien to rile up division whilst unifying the classes of a nation.  You provided a convincing argument for Fascism but ultimately it's about Jung's shadow given the reins to control, is that ever justifiable?  

I set 'em up, you knock 'em down ūüėČ

It's justifiable if it's a case of survival or not (from the point of view of the potential survivees/non-survivees). But on the other hand, going the way of the dodo is always an option too.  It's always contextual, and reality isn't the "reality" of Hollywood movies, or even victors' histories.

(Interestingly, there's evidence that the Spartans initially had a cosmopolitan, sybaritic culture.  How was the change effected, and for what reason?  Nobody really knows, but something pretty drastic must have happened to have led to such a huge change in way of life.)

Also, bear in mind how much of Liber AL sounds "fascistic" - or does it?  And would it be bad or good if it did - or didn't?

I just don't think you can get a proper big picture if you hard-divide things into "nice" and "nasty."  AC regularly harped on about the necessity to impartially canvass all possibilities.  One might still have one's personal preferences at the end of the process, but one is also able to inhabit all points of view calmly and dispassionately, and speak with authority and mastery, and one doesn't fall into the trap of mistaking one's personal preferences for cosmic norms.

Many very intelligent Englishmen had admired what Hitler had done in the 30s in economic terms, in terms of pulling Germany out of the Depression (worse in Germany than almost anywhere else, because of the Versailles business).  But every man jack of them would have fought for England against Germany, even if they thought the war was unjustified, because that's just what you do.  The latter is an example of, "My country, right or wrong."  Is that fascistic?

Part of the problem with liberalism is that in viewing things from the point of view of the individual and his or her liberties, it's easy to drift away from the traditional, often game-theoretic norms that developed (some of them evolving quite blindly and slowly over thousands of years) around self-sacrifice for the greater good, and the idea of the individual as being born with duties as well as liberties.  One gets into a sort of "safety first" mentality.  But which is more/less enlightened - setting one's life at naught for the sake of some greater goal, or trying to preserve one's own life and prerogatives at all costs?


katrice
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

@katrice Thank you for your comment!  I will definitely be checking out Black Easter, because, no,  I have not read it, But Iam looking forward to it.

You're welcome! Black Easter and its sequel, The Day After Judgement, have also been published together in one volume, called The Devil's Day.  Surprisingly well-researched for fiction.  There's even a fun little scene of two people having a short discussion comparing and contrasting methods from different historical grimoires. 


toadstoolwe
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@katrice Yes, I found Black Easter on the Internet Archive, I'll start reading it tonight.  I read the forward, it looks like a cool read.  Are you familiar with T.E.D. Klein's The Ceremonies?  It's great summer time read as the story is set during a College film school instructor encounters an ancient evil on a farm during his summer break from teaching. 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

 

Also, bear in mind how much of Liber AL sounds "fascistic" - or does it?  And would it be bad or good if it did - or didn't?

I just don't think you can get a proper big picture if you hard-divide things into "nice" and "nasty."  AC regularly harped on about the necessity to impartially canvass all possibilities.  One might still have one's personal preferences at the end of the process, but one is also able to inhabit all points of view calmly and dispassionately, and speak with authority and mastery, and one doesn't fall into the trap of mistaking one's personal preferences for cosmic norms.

Many very intelligent Englishmen had admired what Hitler had done in the 30s in economic terms, in terms of pulling Germany out of the Depression (worse in Germany than almost anywhere else, because of the Versailles business).  But every man jack of them would have fought for England against Germany, even if they thought the war was unjustified, because that's just what you do.  The latter is an example of, "My country, right or wrong."  Is that fascistic?

Part of the problem with liberalism is that in viewing things from the point of view of the individual and his or her liberties, it's easy to drift away from the traditional, often game-theoretic norms that developed (some of them evolving quite blindly and slowly over thousands of years) around self-sacrifice for the greater good, and the idea of the individual as being born with duties as well as liberties.  One gets into a sort of "safety first" mentality.  But which is more/less enlightened - setting one's life at naught for the sake of some greater goal, or trying to preserve one's own life and prerogatives at all costs?

Ok https://www.historyhit.com/nazi-germanys-economic-miracle/   check out this summation of how the Nazi economic miracle came about, it included forced unemployment for Jews and women, the latter were encouraged to live like 1950s American housewives and many males were forced to join the army so they could eventually kill for the aryan race.  You're missing the context, war was and is good for business and economic resurgence hence Hitler's economic miracle but the children of the Aeon came through those ordeals and shouted, 'What are we fighting for? 'and, 'We don't want your fucking war.'   Get with the Aeon, it isn't 1933.

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

it isn't 1933.

You could have fooled me.


ignant666
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

it isn't 1933.

Posted by: @shiva

You could have fooled me.

Hopefully not December 1939 (3 months in on that one, as we are on the current one).


Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

Hopefully not December 1939 (3 months in on that one, as we are on the current one).

Wait a microsecond! I was born 3 months before Dec '39. What are you trying to imply?


ignant666
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Um, that you were born the month Hitler invaded Poland (9/1/1939).


Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

Hitler invaded Poland

This is true. I am the poster child for ww-two. I am aware of this. I was not aware of it at the time of the invasion, or for decades thereafter.


Shiva
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P.S.

 

"Vladimir Putin is "weaponising Ukraine's crops" as "a blackmail tool" for the rest of the world, Poland's prime minister said at the World Economic Forum in Davos. Mateusz Morawiecki told the BBC it was like what "Stalin did in 1933".

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61562864

This quote is loaded with key phrases - relative to the discussion (1933), but waaayy off-topic from magickal instruments.

At a stretch, we could call them magickal weapons.


gurugeorge
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

You're missing the context, war was and is good for business and economic resurgence hence Hitler's economic miracle

The war started in 1939, not 1933.¬† And what's wrong with women living as 1950s housewives?¬† Is working as a wage slave for a corporation better? ūüėČ

I mean, you do realize that The Stepford Wives wasn't a documentary, right?


hadgigegenraum
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Putin is not causing a food crisis, that is war propaganda, a magical weapon of deceit....

https://thesaker.is/grains-of-deceit/

 

 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @gurugeorge
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

You're missing the context, war was and is good for business and economic resurgence hence Hitler's economic miracle

The war started in 1939, not 1933.¬† And what's wrong with women living as 1950s housewives?¬† Is working as a wage slave for a corporation better? ūüėČ

I mean, you do realize that The Stepford Wives wasn't a documentary, right?

Yes but if you know about Mein Kampf then you would know that Hitler had plans for total war way back i..e in 1933 and well before 1933.  Try again George.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


David Dom Lemieux
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Double post.

Any schoolboy worth his salt also knows that the Autobahn projects were initially planned by the Weimar Republic and here's a random photo of an American housewife (1960s not 1950s);

 

   

image

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


gurugeorge
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Yes but if you know about Mein Kampf then you would know that Hitler had plans for total war way back in 1933

Citation needed.  (The book was published 1925+1927 btw.)

It really is possible to step back from the Hollywood version of history and take an objective look at things, you know.  You might be surprised.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

and here's a random photo of an American housewife (1960s not 1950s);

Oh the humanity!


Shiva
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Putin is not causing a food crisis

This is true. Some of us were watching all the myriad threads of current events, and we noticed that the supply chain mixup and gas (both natural and petrolish) and food prices were already recognized, announced, and were going UP before Russians hanging around the border were announced.

Obviously, some crops will not be grown in Ukrania this year, and that may add to the already flourishing dimishment of food supplies.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

the Autobahn projects were initially planned by the Weimar Republic

And so was The Montauk Project - at Montauk Point, Long Island, New York. Well, it wasn't planned, it was established.

 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @gurugeorge
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Yes but if you know about Mein Kampf then you would know that Hitler had plans for total war way back in 1933

Citation needed.  (The book was published 1925+1927 btw.)

It really is possible to step back from the Hollywood version of history and take an objective look at things, you know.  You might be surprised.

No I did Advanced History in school and received an A in 'O' level History,besides Hollywood can face reality sometimes anyway y'know.  

Yes Hitler was getting good press and Lloyd George praised him, this was probably well before they realised that the Reich was heavily into state- sponsored terrorism to say the least.  

George, please tell us about the methods and  benefits of the Reich's economic miracle.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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gurugeorge
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

George, please tell us about the methods and  benefits of the Reich's economic miracle

It's pretty much as that article you linked said.  Economic basket-case to economic powerhouse in about 5 or so years (with a few hiccups along the way) by focusing on labour as the source of value and treating it with respect and dignity, getting a healthy, enthusiastic population working together with a sense of common national purpose, partly disengaging from the global financial system (which is actually the real reason war was waged on Germany), etc.  It's not particularly mysterious or spooky, it's just national socialism.

Btw, education is absolute shit these days.  I was born in 1959 and even in the mid 70s when we were doing past papers in preparation for the roughly equivalent (to the English 'O' and 'A') Scottish 'O' and 'H' qualifications in those days, it was obvious that the past papers from the 60s were harder than the tests we were about to take, and the ones from the late 50s even harder.  Education has suffered tremendous inflation because successive governments have been so desperate to be seen to be "educating" more and more people that they've gradually, insensibly lowered the standards over time.  (The rot really set in with the introduction of multiple choice questions.)

School is worthless and an irritant for most people anyway, bar the basics (which should be thoroughly drilled at an early age) plus some practical things like home economics, how to fix and build things, keep books, deal with financial matters, etc.; and higher education should be for the elite 10% that's capable of more than regurgitating ideological claptrap.  What's wanted is a solid, extensive apprenticeship system for the working classes and the encouragement of entrepreneurship for the middle classes.  Symbolic and verbal learning is highly specialized for intellectual elites, and not to be diluted in the way it has been (obviously it should be focused on open inquiry).  There should be a military class too. Geniuses will fend for themselves anyway, and could be hidden in any class.  All classes must be respected for their particular contribution to the weal of the group. Occasionally peoples' capabilities may be misidentified and they might have to change class (either up or down), and that should be possible obviously, but it's going to be pretty rare.

"Thus ye have star & star, system & system"

Is this Fascism? Socialism? Capitalism?  It's a bit of everything, the "best bits" of everything.  That is the correct system.


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @gurugeorge
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

George, please tell us about the methods and  benefits of the Reich's economic miracle

It's pretty much as that article you linked said.  Economic basket-case to economic powerhouse in about 5 or so years (with a few hiccups along the way) by focusing on labour as the source of value and treating it with respect and dignity, getting a healthy, enthusiastic population working together with a sense of common national purpose, partly disengaging from the global financial system (which is actually the real reason war was waged on Germany), etc.  It's not particularly mysterious or spooky, it's just national socialism.

Btw, education is absolute shit these days.  I was born in 1959 and even in the mid 70s when we were doing past papers in preparation for the roughly equivalent (to the English 'O' and 'A') Scottish 'O' and 'H' qualifications in those days, it was obvious that the past papers from the 60s were harder than the tests we were about to take, and the ones from the late 50s even harder.  Education has suffered tremendous inflation because successive governments have been so desperate to be seen to be "educating" more and more people that they've gradually, insensibly lowered the standards over time.  (The rot really set in with the introduction of multiple choice questions.)

School is worthless and an irritant for most people anyway, bar the basics (which should be thoroughly drilled at an early age) plus some practical things like home economics, how to fix and build things, keep books, deal with financial matters, etc.; and higher education should be for the elite 10% that's capable of more than regurgitating ideological claptrap.  What's wanted is a solid, extensive apprenticeship system for the working classes and the encouragement of entrepreneurship for the middle classes.  Symbolic and verbal learning is highly specialized for intellectual elites, and not to be diluted in the way it has been (obviously it should be focused on open inquiry).  There should be a military class too. Geniuses will fend for themselves anyway, and could be hidden in any class.  All classes must be respected for their particular contribution to the weal of the group. Occasionally peoples' capabilities may be misidentified and they might have to change class (either up or down), and that should be possible obviously, but it's going to be pretty rare.

"Thus ye have star & star, system & system"

Is this Fascism? Socialism? Capitalism?  It's a bit of everything, the "best bits" of everything.  That is the correct system.

I retook my Maths 'O' level at a college some years after I failed the school exam, brought my old textbook and the college tutor said that that was now 'A' level so yes I agree with your comments about education and all of your other points sound convincing.  I'm not sure that you are alluding to the crazy theory about international Jewish control of all banks and their taking offence at a nation ('a pure people' who prefer to breathe that country air) daring to break away from dirty international usury i.e. “Humanity would sink into eternal darkness, it would fall into a dull and primitive state, were the Jews to win this war" ~  Goebbels

 

.....what?

 

as I say it all sounds a bit spaced out, a bit Der Sturmer;

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


gurugeorge
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I'm not sure that you are alluding to the international Jewish control of all banks and their taking offence at a nation ('a people') daring to break away from dirty international usury... all sounds a bit spaced out, a bit Der Stumer;

It's never been just the Jews, but they've always been heavily involved.  They (or rather their elites, obviously there are loads of rank-and-file Jews who have nothing to do with any of this, and who have often suffered from their own elites' shenanigans eventually pissing off natives) are what you might call a shadow elite throughout history, not the poor shivering wee eternal victims they like to give the impression they are. A certain proportion of them have always taken very seriously the moniker, "Chosen People," and have been singularly and consistently focused throughout history on winning the game of the world - and have done an amazing job at it, considering their relatively small number.

Historically speaking, the English Protestants who became the WASP elites of the past couple of centuries, and the usury/finance Jews (not the famous Rothschilds, who came later, but earlier Sephardics, both open and crypto-Jews and Marranos/Conversos who eventually fetched up in England, via Portugal, France and the Low Countries, from Spain, often intermarrying with the new WASP elites - Disraeli and many other well-known English figures in many fields, like the band Genesis' original singer Peter Gabriel, are descendants) collaborated to bring about the twin phenomena of liberalism and capitalism, mainly via Freemasonry, but also straight politics, eventually more or less trashing completely the old Catholic order (unity of Church and warrior class/aristocracy-based State) that had ruled Europe (actually quite well) since the end of the Dark Ages.

Those Protestant elites basically got their seed money from ousting and looting the Catholics in England, and they built up their fortunes from there, developing (first in the UK) proto-capitalism then industrial capitalism, as well as science and technology, while at the same time fomenting liberal and democratic revolutions in the rest of Western Europe (John Dee was the start of it, he was basically a part-time spy).  The same twin-headed monstrosity also kick-started the US eventually.  A slightly different branch of the Sephardic bunch, those who had remained in Spain, was also heavily involved in the colonizations of the Caribbean and South America, collaborating with the Catholics in that instance, via the Jesuits, who are basically sock puppets (one might say, they were to the Catholics as Freemasons were to Protestants).  (While all this was going on, the Ashkenazim, who had been the original diaspora Jews spread throughout Western Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire, had been gradually pushed Eastwards by various expulsions, ending up in Poland and the Pale, sort of like country bumpkin cousins of the Sephardics, until they rocketed into prominence with the integrations in Germany and Russia, with the Rothschilds, and via their involvement with Communism, and eventually early to mid 20th century America, to the extent that they are now the dominant Jewish bunch.) 

Of course it's all much more complicated and fiddly than that (for example there were Mizrahim and others who were heavily involved in the Middle East and Asia, even as far East as China) but that's the general gist of it.

But it's all about to unravel fairly soon, I think - it's run its course.  America is a dead man walking, a rotting corpse, just as Britain was after WW2.  Jews will carry on and try to glom on to the next big hegemon, just as they glommed on to empires before the two great Anglo empires, going back into the distant past; but it's difficult to see how the same maneuvers can be pulled off again, with the same degree of chutzpah, as I think the only possibility now is really the newly-developing Eastern axis (BRICS), and I doubt they'll be as susceptible to Jewish wiles as Whitey was, since they'll have been observing with great interest what has happened to Whitey.  But you never know.  Certainly Israel has been trying to ingratiate itself with BRICS by putting itself forward as a major nexus of Belt & Road, but China is an old, old empire that didn't get where it is today by being naive.


Alan_OBrien
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@gurugeorge 🙃😷🤡


Shiva
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I note that the discussion has shifted from Magical Instruments to The Khazarian Mafia. I echo gg's explanatory about how not all Jews were involved in the elite's affairs - most were not.

Otherwise, it's like saying, "MS-13 gang members ar bad. Let's persecute or kill all Salvadorians."


gurugeorge
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Posted by: @shiva

I note that the discussion has shifted from Magical Instruments

Are you sure about that? ūüôā

Posted by: @shiva

The Khazarian Mafia.

Meh, I think that theory's overblown, there's only a bit of truth to it.  It's usually something people tout because they're too scared to name the Jew.

But yeah, obviously NAXALT should go without saying ("not all x are like that").


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

It's never been just the Jews, but they've always been heavily involved.  They (or rather their elites, obviously there are loads of rank-and-file Jews who have nothing to do with any of this, and who have often suffered from their own elites' shenanigans eventually pissing off natives) are what you might call a shadow elite throughout history, not the poor shivering wee eternal victims they like to give the impression they are. A certain proportion of them have always taken very seriously the moniker, "Chosen People," and have been singularly and consistently focused throughout history on winning the game of the world - and have done an amazing job at it, considering their relatively small number.

 

But wasn't this elite a Frankenstein's Monster created firstly due to the alienation caused by their unique monotheism in pre Christendom and then via the persecution instigated by Roman Christendom due to the Son of God crucifixion story?  Maybe the Jews were a race all enslaved by various Pharaohs and so they wised up.  Whatever you say about this 'shadowy elite' and their control etc the myths, alphabet and visionaries of the chosen people has made for a constructive legacy but aren't you making some sort of perennial Chthulu Monster character out of a particular class/race that generally isolates itself as do Chinese or Asian communities?  Some group had to get good at finance and usury like other groups specialised in other industries. 

John Dee a spy! Are you claiming that he used Kelley's mediumship as a decoy whilst he made an Elizabethan Enigma Code? Who was he working for and why (his own thirst for scientific and mathematical advancement)?  Terence McKenna believes that Elizabeth wanted a European witchcraft Hermetic Empire, Parsons claimed that Joan of Arc was a tool in a similar doomed movement.        

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

But wasn't this elite a Frankenstein's Monster created firstly due to the alienation caused by their unique monotheism in pre Christendom and then via the persecution instigated by Roman Christendom due to the Son of God crucifixion story?

This is rather complicated. As I understand it, it went like this ...

The Khazars got dispersed, many (most) of them moving into poland and Germany. They were already "Jews" by election (of their ruling class). They mixed-reproduced with the Hassidic Jews of Europe, and became known as the Ashenazi (European Jewas - not Semitic Sephardic jews of Palestine.

So this ruling class of the Khazars was essentially a lineage out of ancient Sumeria.

Now the Europeans didn't like these Jews, so they restricted them to ghettos, and made them dress in funny ways (the Machus did the same to the Chinese - they made them wear a long pigtail). The jews became a "lower caste."

Then came banking - courtesy of The Templars. But banking involved interest, and Christians knew interest was a sin (Islam, too), and nobody wanted to dirty their hands ... so they said, "Let the Jews handle this unclean bisiness!"

Thus started The Jewish Banking System. The slick and clever Sumerian Magician Elite Khazerian Askenazi elite moved right in - and started collecting interest. They were the financiers of the ww1 fiasco, and so the 3rd Reich turned against them as the source of evil. Yama-Niyama problems arose when they (the Naz) accused all Jews of sub-human conduct.

This would be the same if we found out the Scicilian Mafia was holding up our country ... and we set out to disable all Scicilians ... and thos Italians, too!

I certify that this story is true, but I have no proofs to display. Go figure out for yourself whether it's all true, partly true, or fake news.

 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva

I note that the discussion has shifted from Magical Instruments

  Posted by: @gurugeorge

Are you sure about that? ūüôā

 

 

 
 
Posted by: @shiva

This is rather complicated. As I understand it, it went like this ...

The Khazars got dispersed, many (most) of them moving into poland and Germany. They were already "Jews" by election (of their ruling class). They mixed-reproduced with the Hassidic Jews of Europe, and became known as the Ashenazi (European Jewas - not Semitic Sephardic jews of Palestine. 

Just so we are not off topic I have made a new thread out of this sub-topic here;

 

The Shadowy Elite ‚Äď Stuff ‚Äď LAShTAL.COM Forum

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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