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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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10/08/2012 5:49 pm  
"John" wrote:
I guess this is important to the thread in that all astral , even out of the body, experiences are experienced by those with functioning brains. To assume that his experience is proof of something beyond the brain is a big step.

It's really just a figment of the imagination.


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Los
 Los
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10/08/2012 6:22 pm  
"John" wrote:
So my original post was just a caution to not let the allure of the mystical jargon distract one from “the method of science” even if the method in the end might destroy the aim. “Religion”

Of course, the word "religion" simply means "relinking" or "to link back": it refers to reforging a connection that has been lost, and it applies perfectly well to the idea of "linking back" to one's True Self, one's actual inclinations that one has overlooked by paying attention to the mind instead. Seen in this light, "religion" is entirely non-supernatural and does not depend on consciousness being separate from brain activity.

Now, the "method of science" -- and just so we're clear here, the "method of science" is more than just jotting inane entries into a notebook describing the details of "operations." The phrase "method of science" should be read as referring primarily to perceiving as objectively as possible, both the universe and the self. What the "method of science" might just do is destroy one's ideas about "religion" (and such ideas include those improperly reasoned out on the basis of bare experience).

One might discover that "religion," in the sense that we mean here, is not some quest for disembodied consciousness, a conversation with elves, the search to survive one's death, etc. The picture that people have in their heads about what "religion" actually is -- what one should be "relinking" to -- may be entirely wrong: it could well be that the "aim of religion" is entirely mundane, everyday, and ordinary, and that the trick to "attaining" is to figure out that the fantastical ideas normally associated with it are illusions. 


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Azidonis
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10/08/2012 6:33 pm  


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Michael Staley
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MANIO - it's all in the egg
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10/08/2012 7:37 pm  
"Los" wrote:
One might discover that "religion," in the sense that we mean here, is not some quest for disembodied consciousness, a conversation with elves, the search to survive one's death, etc. The picture that people have in their heads about what "religion" actually is -- what one should be "relinking" to -- may be entirely wrong: it could well be that the "aim of religion" is entirely mundane, everyday, and ordinary, and that the trick to "attaining" is to figure out that the fantastical ideas normally associated with it are illusions. 

Yes, one might; on the other hand, one might not. Yes, it could well be; on the other hand, it could well not be.


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Azidonis
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11/08/2012 1:47 pm  
"John" wrote:
Figments of the imagination can change human thought, so they are never "just"

Figments of imagination (ie. thoughts) change thoughts... imagine that.


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 Anonymous
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11/08/2012 2:03 pm  

.


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 Anonymous
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11/08/2012 2:11 pm  

.


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Azidonis
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11/08/2012 6:10 pm  

John, my email said you wrote, "Enigmatic sentences are the easy way out J".

I only want to state that there is nothing enigmatic about it.


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 Anonymous
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12/04/2014 8:38 am  

Hi Thoki

I realise no members have posted for a while, but I can't fathom a more appropriate manner of starting a topic and I might be of assistance.

    Concerning the subject of shocking the transfer of the "seat of consciousness" unto the astral body,  I attend to the statement that this is, psychologically speaking,  a violent phenomenon. There is the raising of the kundalini, but this does seem to be rare.  There is another technique (and I can only speak of my own experience)  which is treated in Crowley's "LiberTurris vel Dominus Dei." The instructions are difficult and provide practical instructions regarding "pratyahara, " Part 1, Book Four. I had devised a technique long before I came across this thesis, and the technique is very similar.

    The consequences, upon conducting these techniques a number of times,  and in almost each and every instance,  was the ascending of a mysterious energy ("psycho-sexual") from the base of the spine,  via the spine ( sushuma), to the pituitary gland (perhaps the "soma chakkra),  which was/is, in this case,  the Crown. It was, as previously stated, a psycho-dynamically violent phenomenalisation - a dynamic all-encompassing shock. The body actually jumps. Alas, I either found myself standing beside my body or standing outside my window.

    One key to this practice is thus: you will become aware of the presence of this energy once you gain some success.  You must shift attention from this awareness,  for I have come to the understanding that the discerning nature of the ego is a barrier to "exteriorising" the "seat of consciousness."

    I hope this helps,  and I emphasize that such were the nature of things for me and may not manifest for someone else.

    Regards


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 Anonymous
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12/04/2014 3:29 pm  

I had some cause many years back to dismantle, extremely unwillingly, all personal crutches leaning on the very unsure foundations of Indian mysticism. It seemed to my extremely humble, but almost “sucker” like, willingness to “believe” in any yogic (for want of a better word) methods or terminology, that they arose in an extremely primitive society in which the majority of the inhabitants whole heatedly believed in things that even the most generously excepting modern follower of Crowley might find slightly amusing. I came to imagine that hatha yoga was quite practically and simply a daily method by which a yogi might bend, stretch and relieve his emaciated body after many months of punishment by total lack of exercise spent locked in an excruciating unnatural pose. And such a Sadhu, were he to be mystically transported to the present day, might find highly amusing the insanely silly mystical interpretations that are now associated with such poses. 
So I am always concerned when people use relatively modern Mystical terminology, which they suppose has the authoritative  ring of the extremely ancient, to illustrate their own methods. I.e. I abhor the term Kundalini, and all its associated trappings. Chakras, another relatively modern term, blown out of all proportion these days, so that it has lost all of its simple meaning of just using parts of the body as a meditative devise to "raise" consciousness.
I am sure that if I were to find a modern sadhu, in the nether reaches of some Indian Backwater, he would attempt to impress me with such terms. Only to find much later that under his pillow he keeps a copy of Sir John Woodroffe’s original. Well worn words are almost always a bluff used by deceivers and those who have no real knowledge of the real to disguise their deficiency in experience.
If you are lucky you will one day meet someone who may at least sound as if what they tell you comes from their heart. You will know it to be original because it will probably not consist of words you are expecting to hear. Most likely the words will sound insanely ordinary and familiar.
But even then you will have no real proof at all that the speaker is not just lost in their own illusions.
BTW, almost all of Crowley’s later excursions on to the “astral plane” were Drug induced, which he freely admits. Even the book of the Law advises such. Many of the greatest artist of past and present used drink and drugs to produce their masterpieces. But really, if someone tells you they had a mystical experience while taking a drug, would you be that impressed ?
If there are people on these forums who trip easily, without the use of narcotics of any kind, out of the body, or on to the “astral plane” then they are far greater exponents of the art than Crowley ever was.
I personally try to keep in mind “Our method is Science” and as of now Science would not even give the time of day to most of what passes for “real” in the occult world.
Crowley was an extremely intelligent and canny individual, if he were alive now, would he really still be resting his whole case on what he wrote so many years ago. I think not, because he was not stupid enough argue against demonstrable "reality", or egotistical enough to believe his own press. So be careful of those who still sell the same old wares as if they are relevant now. That’s all really. Watch your back.  🙂


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jamie barter
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13/04/2014 2:42 pm  

Reply #44 by Los on: July 29, 2012, 05:47:24 am:

It’s just not going to work. The practitioner has to throw himself or herself into the performance [of a magical operation], and skepticism – like any other kind of thought – is going to hamper the performance during the performance.

But before the operation? After the operation? Not only is that an appropriate time for skepticism, one *must* employ skepticism, if the practitioner is going to be engaging in intelligent practice.

[…] Learning things is a rational process, and it can only be conducted properly by asking clear questions and having a crystal clear understanding of what it is one is trying to do, what one is actually doing, and why.

Although not so much to do with the primary subject of the astral plane* I felt it important to briefly mention that to determine at exactly what points the skepticism is switched on and off again, and the precise reason why in each case, would be a valuable source of analysis along solve et coagula lines, not to mention a means of looking more closely at the functioning process of the mind itself, and especially so perhaps in Los’ own case.

It is also important to recognise that learning things is not exclusively a rational process either - though that can sometimes help, of course, no doubt...

As always, scepticism can be: “a fine servant but a terrible master.”

Norma N Joy Conquest

* here I would also recommend “The Projection of the Astral Body” by Sylvan Muldoon & Hereward Carrington, which I found most useful reading material myself


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 Anonymous
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14/04/2014 1:32 pm  

Skepticism is a terrible thing, it can quite easily kill any advancement of any kind in any field of thought or practical Science. But at the same time, no real “Science” should be in any way scared to face it head on.  In my experience, the majority of those who seek truth outside the manifest truth of “ Fire is hot, and ice is cold” are self deceivers. They do not do this in any malicious kind of sense. They just desire so much something “more” than the abysmal stock reality that most except. That they forget to check their own reality anymore during their experiments. So they begin to see failure as their inability to perform correctly the prescribed formula, rather than simply conclude that the formula does not work, and those who say it does are self deceivers.


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obscurus
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14/04/2014 2:20 pm  

* here I would also recommend “The Projection of the Astral Body” by Sylvan Muldoon & Hereward Carrington, which I found most useful reading material myself

I couldn't agree with you more Jamie. And so here I will boldly and shamelessly hock a copy for sale of the March 1939 hardcover edition published by the Psychic Book Club, 144, High Holborn, London, W.C.1. for fifty dollars plus shipping. Full amount, minus shipping to this site. PM me if interested.


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 Anonymous
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15/04/2014 1:03 pm  

its a funny old game


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 Anonymous
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23/04/2014 1:45 am  

Hi Jamie,

I enjoy reading your posts and the respectful undertones distinguishing all of the posts I have read..

Baal,

I shall be responding to your comments post hence my most recent post, in a couple of days when time permits thus.


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jamie barter
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23/04/2014 12:27 pm  
"Atua Paul Alton Ngatai" wrote:
Hi Jamie,

I enjoy reading your posts and the respectful undertones distinguishing all of the posts I have read.

Why, thank you Atua!  Unless you are indulging in the nether arts of sarcasm (which I don't believe you are), whilst being absolutely & undeniably true, that must count as a first - I have even been cast into a spell of pre-moderation on this very forum for the misdemeanour of showing the complete opposite, i’ fact!  (Paul, please take note!! 😮 )

“Remind me to mention you in my will” :D,
N Joy


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 Anonymous
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25/04/2014 12:38 pm  

I genuinely meant my comment concerning you Jamie, from what I have seen you deal with the subject matter and not descending unto personal attacks where possible, with conversational tone as distinct from interrogatives.

I aim thus likewise with all things - Baal has attacked my credibility but alas! I will be as objective and dignified in my response.  It is under preparation. We are supposed to be discussing techniques for transferring the seat of consciosness, and this detractor has directly implied I do not know what I am talking about and that I am a liar. We both know that the doctrines of curses, psychic attacks are taught to lowly initiates as a blind because it is in their uneducated nature to attempt attacks on the inner circles. I prepared nine pages for this Baal but shall not respond to that extent. I still require more free time than available presently, and shall tie it all back unto the subtle planes along with every technique that has worked for me.

Regards


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jamie barter
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25/04/2014 12:56 pm  
"Atua Paul Alton Ngatai" wrote:
I genuinely meant my comment concerning you Jamie, from what I have seen you deal with the subject matter and not descending unto personal attacks where possible, with conversational tone as distinct from interrogatives.

Aunt Griselda, the smelling salts!!  I am fairly overwhelmed by this surfeit of praise and can only thank you once again.  Yes, I try to be civil and polite (and always am in the first instance, you’re quite correct there) although in the best Thelemic tradition if someone does not extend the same courtesy to Me I may then well “turn and strike”, as it were.

"Atua Paul Alton Ngatai" wrote:
I am thus likewise with all things - Baal has attacked my credibility but alas! I will be as objective and dignified in my response.  It is under preparation. We are supposed to be discussing techniques for transferring the seat of consciosness, and this detractor has directly implied I do not know what I am talking about and that I am a liar. We both know that the doctrines of curses, psychic attacks are taught to lowly initiates as a blind because it is in their uneducated nature to attempt attacks on the inner circles. I prepared nine pages for this Baal but shall not respond to that extent. I still require more free time than available presently, and shall tie it all back unto the subtle planes along with every technique that has worked for me.

This Old Baal seems to have fairly offended you, it would appear!  While I don’t wish to “take sides” in the matter, I take it there’s no possibility of some kind of a rapprochement between the two of youse, or is that now dead in the water?!

(Nine pages, eh?  Wow!  Still, it got it off your chest, I suppose!)

My giddy aunt - merci once again 😉
N Joy


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 Anonymous
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02/05/2014 6:59 pm  

There is always a chance but I have spent some time preparing.

Regards


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 Anonymous
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02/05/2014 9:57 pm  

Well Baal, you deem to discredit my word and hence put out the challenge to describe the experience of Sivadashasana. You have that right, though your arrogance and presumptuousness stinks. It has been a long time since I wrote about that event. It occurred May, 5 1996. I remember writing "I don't know what just happened, but there must be someone higher than me."

Subsequently I went on a series of visions over a period of three weeks,  and whatever a normal life is, I certainly would not have one thereafter. My memories of these visions are quite vivid and rather detailed after all this time, but not as detailed as I wish they were. The records I penned of them each time I returned to ordinary consciousness were given to Mark Walker, who was then the Treasurer O.T.O Australia,  for safe keeping. We had lunches and phone discussions about the whole series of experiences. He was heightened in his interest, but we had not a clue regarding the visions. I didn't mention the Kundalini because I had no conception of what had occurred.  One curse associated with this period - the Kundalini and consequent visions, is no-one believes me; not that I have written it in the sky but those who'm I have told about the Kundalini look at me as one who is pitied, deluded and seeking attention for lack of nurture as a child;  or simply a liar. About the visions,  I have told less than ten people in 18yrs of only a couple,  for the same responses are guaranteed. But Mark Walker was certain of profundity and that will always be enough for me.

This response took me some time to prepare. It took me a week to calm down. Upon the conclusion of this post, Baal, I shall deal with other elements of your posts - for example, I resent the innuendo that I enhanced my techniques with drugs, and, that you seem to know what Aleister Crowley would be thinking were he alive. That is some gift you have, and probably the most rediculous impetuous statement I have read in an educated setting. Upon conclusion of this post I could not care what your mind makes of it and your Straw Man tactics don't work on me.

      Preliminary

I was 22yrs. I was attempting to oxidize my blood as I was cramping up at University. I knew of the chakras however Ihhad naught heard of the Kundalini. Most of my 6yrs were focused on the Tree of Life, since that was the task I see myself at 16yrs upon discovering Enochiana. I was not at all attempting to raise the Fire Snake. It was many months later when studying a Magical text that I knew what I had done.

      Elements of Practice

Pranayama - Apana breathing
Mantrum Audgita
Dharana Yantra internal

All three simultaneously, however, I have managed to repeat the attainment many times without the Apana element - the succeeding successes not as shattering as the first. I was only vibrating audgita (mentally) the Jewel in the Lotus mantra, to the exact same tones as presented in Book 4, Part 1. I don't believe the yantra matters saveth that it focusses attention, and occupies the attention. I conclude it is a matter of creating psychical momentum and generating psychic heat without any theological connotations

Now there are purported techniques involving 16 petalled lotus' and so on.  I will admit here a doctrine not often treated, which is,  beware arousing the Kundalini less you can't release it I.e., it's natural course might be to descend back to where it began and become dormant, but when you are dealing with the highest chakras it can become trapped if not released vis sahasara, since thus becomes its natural course. I once had it trapped in the Vishuddha for many days. Now Baal,  you can writhe all you wish with these mystical attributes but unless you have been living under a rock you would be aware that the chakras were found to correspond to the sympathetic nervous system.

      Description of Sivadarshasana/Krilya

If there is a point where this dynamic jolt of bio-electromagnetic energy first manifests it is the corpus callosum; but this is an approximation as there are a plurality of good reasons for this primacy above the head - the Kether point as we say (Levi's Corona Summae - The Kabbalistic Prayer. ) emamating from The Nameless.

This point of origin of this tremendous cataclysm occurrs one minutest of am instant before the body jumps and convulses. Mine theorum is that every nadi, neuron, dendrite, synapse, neuro-transmitter fire's at the same instant;  the Corona Summae containing a vast sum of energy in stasis,  which is violently released when the Goddess kisses the Eye of Siva. It is a traumatic experience. It is ecstassy et supra. It is a phenomenal orgasm.

      Post Traumata

The after effects:

      1. There is a shock to the whole psyche, ego. Identity: psychical point of reference is knocked unto a new modus perception. One is aware of the great significance of what has just happened and at the same time there is a deep sense of aloneness, as I realized immediately that not too many were privy to this experience. "There is no-one to talkto aabout this experience, " has run through the contents of mine reflexions ever since. There's really only the aspiration to cling to as well as knowing what you know from expert authorities. All other psychic temperaments dissolved;  those things that most strive for lose their meanin; trivial.  Cats chasing their tails. The immediacy and unfamiliarity is like setting out on a journey and also quite frightening.

      Ii) I have since discerned that this shifting of the ego is necessary to prevent the real possibility of meglomania that may come with the highest visions.

      2) Acute full blown insomnia - on par with Neitzche. For 16yrs I slept 10hrs a week.  2yrs ago I discovered concentrates Melatonin.
      "(par) the aspirant, upon attainment of sivadarshasana spends the rest of his life attempting to balance his karmic burden and then dies from exhaustion." Johash Honri "Chakkras"

      3) It was four months til I completed my degree and hence set up my own practice. Futhermore I was the founder and Secretary of Eudaimon Philosophy Society of Wollongong University.  The society had members throughout many Universities; I had throngs of students following me everywhere.  I gave lecturers,  chaired debates, wrote papers and articles. We were in the process of creating a quarterly periodical. We stood to make a substantial amount of money. After May, 5 I walked away from it all to meditate. I was not consciously making an aesthetic vow or whatever;  I wanted emphatically to meditate and recreate the attainment. For 2yrs I meditated 2hrs to 14hrs a day. I also experimented pranayama, pratyahara, raja, laya, mahayama subtle body dynamics. Since May 5, 1996 I have meditated at least 5-7000hrs. Is not much of a stretch when you don't sleep.  Furthermore I spent 4yrs councilling rape victims, incest victims,  mentally ill and suicide risk individuals for a lot less money than had I opened my own practice and continued with Philosophy Society.  For last 10yrs have worked ib disabilities: feeding the homeless;  dealing directly with the Australian Government for sake of the disabled- again not for much money.  So raising the Kundalini changed everything.

Based upon the epi-phenomenon of a series of 14 visions that followed Krilya, mine long held position is that sivadarshasana envigourates, INRI - igne natura rennovator ignitio, all of one's subtle bodies c.f Qabalistic doctrine of the four worlds. Stimulating thus consequating in a state of readiness to traverse the plane's. Why the unwilled teansferences of consciousness occurred in my situation is still a mystery to me.

I suggest that Atmadarsasana, an attainment I don't lay claim to,  is the mystical attainment of 210 Nox; the mystical correlate of the City of Pyramids;  the Magical path being direct traversings of the negative power-zones c.f. Kenneth Grant. "Nightside of Eden." I further correlate nerodha samapati to the domain of the subtle planes. Of course these are just theories.

I have read many authors who lay claim to Krilya but have no clue: gurus and occult authors.

This will suffice.  I have had to condense this post verily.  I could add much more.

So Baal,  I could ask you what you have done in the above mentioned fields, hence giving you the authority to your sarcasm, innuendo and liberal assumptions; but I won't.  It is much easier to pull things to pieces than put them together.  Love carries great risks for the soul, which is why actions vis love's realisation and the morality necessary to bring it to fruition is superior to destructive selfishness. And I repeat my earlier post, the discerning nature of the ego seems a great barrier to exteriorisation.


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Azidonis
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03/05/2014 1:59 am  
"Atua Paul Alton Ngatai" wrote:
Well Baal, you deem to discredit my word and hence put out the challenge to describe the experience of Shivadarshana. [...]

Interesting post. Thanks for sharing.

"When he was about eighteen, Allan [Bennett] had accidentally stumbled into the trance called Shivadarshana, in which the universe, having been perceived in its totality as a single phenomenon, independent of space and time, is then annihilated. This experience had determined the whole course of his life. His one object was to get back into that state." - Crowley in Confessions

"On a practical level, Crowley's published instructions on the Abyss tell the reader to consider some philosophical problem without using magic or intuition, until the mind focuses on this problem of its own accord: "Then will all phenomena which present themselves to him appear meaningless and disconnected, and his own Ego will break up into a series of impressions having no relation one with the other, or with any other thing." This prepares the student for the mystical experience that Crowley elsewhere calls Shivadarshana." - Abyss

In 'layman's' terms, Atua's above account is one of Crossing the Abyss, and thereafter, according to Atua.


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 Anonymous
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05/05/2014 9:15 pm  

Azidonis,

thankyou for your reply and  insights. I wasn't sure what to expect from responses to my post.

I am happy to say that I now have some time to follow up with instructions vis, Liber 474 as well as devoting some time to further readings of extant Exempt Adept opus'.

Your quote from "Confessions," is most interesting.  I have not got to those as of yet In my researches.

Regards


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 Anonymous
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07/05/2014 1:26 pm  

Each individual can only speak as they find.
Your world view may be vastly more expansive than mine.
It may be that you are gifted with abilities that I will never know. 
You may assume that you have “done more” than me to attain whatever it is that you believe you have attained.
I speak for myself only.
But I speak to others who, like me, have pushed all the right buttons, pulled all the right leavers, and still have found nothing but self deception.
Please do not be arrogant enough to think that we have done less than you.
I tell them that I walked this path that these “great men” walked and it was a DEAD END.
What do you say to people like me ?
“Sorry, its just not your time”
“You need to try harder”
“You need to try this or that  technique?
I think it is you who do not understand the human state.
We are all capable of vastly different levels of experience of existence.
My concept of Sugar is not yours.
So don’t be telling me how I should think or feel about raw energy.
You are what you are, I am what I am, but we both shall be dead meat some day IMHO.
If what I have said has seemed as if I am doing what you are doing, in reverse, then I apologise.
You are the arrogant one, who when experiencing something that a miniscule portion of society has allegedly experienced, gets all offended when your extremist view is challenged.
I am against “holy men” “enlightened men” I am against anyone who thinks that we are less than equal.
You want to sell me a way to enlightenment, then show  me a path for all. Even ignorant lumps like me.
And Please refrain from using my name every paragraph or so, grow up.
Reality is much harder than the mystical shit that many peddle.
Ah, and BTW, I think you have totally missed the point of self deception.
You will be un aware of it.


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 Anonymous
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07/05/2014 2:03 pm  

Ah, and have you ever lived with a mad man.
He totally believes in his view of reality.
So much so that he sees your view as an attack on what is really real.
Once you experience this then you come to think that reality, beyond fire is hot, ice is cold, is completely subjective.
And this is fine in a way. People can write books about their subjective view.
But it all gets a bit bent when they start to peddle this view as some kind of base reality.
We call this religion.


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 Anonymous
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13/05/2014 3:26 pm  

Shocks Shown To Induce And Improve Lucid Dreaming

"The researchers found that a 40-Hz current often caused participants’ brains to generate brain waves of the same frequency and trigger lucidity 77 percent of the time, as established by later reports from the dreamers. Electrical charges of 25 Hertz also sparked lucidity – 58 percent of the time" ( http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113143946/shocking-you-into-lucid-dreams-051214/).

77 % Baal - there's hope for you too :=)

Kunda-fucking-lini


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Shiva
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13/05/2014 3:49 pm  
"Baal" wrote:
Ah, and have you ever lived with a mad man.
He totally believes in his view of reality.

O Lordie!  I fear this definition makes most of us mad!
Mad-angry? or Mad-insane?
Makes no difference.
I'm going now to seek a doctor.


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 Anonymous
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22/05/2014 1:31 pm  

100% of my experience disagrees. Who do you believe ?


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Azidonis
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22/05/2014 1:45 pm  

In my younger years, I asked a 'more experienced magician' how to astral travel. He politely told me, "Fall down some stairs".


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 Anonymous
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22/05/2014 2:20 pm  

It's "Magician" for "get lost"


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 Anonymous
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22/05/2014 2:46 pm  

O Lordie!  I fear this definition makes most of us mad!
Of course. What made you think any different.
Can you think of anything that humans have thought said or done that has been assessed as sane by anyone other than other potential suffers. We dwell in an asylum with no other authority as to our thoughts deeds and actions than the other inmates.Much safer to see insanity in all around you, baring basic survival advice, than trust the advice of a fellow inmate.


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Azidonis
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23/05/2014 1:14 am  
"Baal" wrote:
It's "Magician" for "get lost"

Actually, it's experience saying inadvertently that a swift physical jar can result in an "OBE", which when analyzed appropriately, can possibly be duplicated.

"Baal" wrote:
Can you think of anything that humans have thought said or done that has been assessed as sane by anyone other than other potential suffers.

That's part of the point, if I understand your grammar correctly.

"Baal" wrote:
We dwell in an asylum with no other authority as to our thoughts deeds and actions than the other inmates.

Our words and thoughts were created by other inmates, as you call them. This is nothing new.

"Baal" wrote:
Much safer to see insanity in all around you, baring basic survival advice, than trust the advice of a fellow inmate.

Insanity sees itself, then? Or are you claiming to be a sane one?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/05/2014 6:47 pm  

There's different types of meditation. This article shows how different types of meditation works on the brain: Non-directive meditation (Acem and Transcendental meditation) and concentrative meditation (attention on breath, denial of thought).

This is your brain on meditation
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-05/nuos-tiy051514.php

"According to occult teachings the astral plane can be visited consciously through astral projection, meditation and mantra, near death experience, lucid dreaming, or other means. Individuals that are trained in the use of the astral vehicle can separate their consciousness in the astral vehicle from the physical body at will.[8]" (wikipedia).

... others claim the astral plane is just sub-conscious garbage.

The non-directive approach brings up stuff from the the subconsciousness. The activity in the brain is actually higher than when we rest. This is pretty interesting because the article I mentioned earlier in this thread, where the scientist caused gamma activity in the frontal regions of the brain with electrical charges, is the wave specter above regular day consciousness. I know however that transcendental meditation stimulates low alpha brain waves. This isn't necessary contradictory as the brain functions on several bands of brain waves at the same time (like instruments in an orchestra). Delta waves are traditionally a state related with prophetic dreams, which might be best induced by concentrative meditation (?) or Ajahuasca.

                  Practical methods used by myself
I experienced a "chakra opening", the navel chakra, after inducing an electrical charge in the brain by my self composed meditation technique. This method can be found on this forum under my previous alias Karlir-Johanarnt Kristjanson. I don't know the brain frequency which it resulted in, but it must have been within the same boundaries as in the "electrical charge article". I can't say that I recommend this method, as I don't know if it's safe.

EEG's shows that by breathing only with the mouth; in and out, then in and out with the nose, then in and out by the mouth and so on... causes increased gamma waves activity in the frontal lobe. If you try it you will most probably feel a tingling sensation in the frontal regions of the brain. Try this method when you are going to sleep (after a while you don't have to concentrate on the breath at all).
.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5026
23/05/2014 7:19 pm  
"Kharlatan" wrote:
EEG's shows that by breathing only with the mouth; in and out, then in and out with the nose, then in and out by the mouth and so on... causes increased gamma waves activity in the frontal lobe.

From Coruscatio - The Magical Cactus Voice:

"Scientists, psychologists, medical doctors and anyone else can affix sensors to a person's scalp, including one's own, and through the medium of an Electroencephalograph (EEG), the electrical activity of the subject's brain can be seen, recorded and analyzed.
There are four primary divisions:
These demarcations are called beta, alpha, theta, and delta.
Their general characteristics are as follows:

Brainwave Frequencies
Beta 13 - 20 cps - Multi-tasking
Alpha 8 - 13 cps - Focused and Relaxed [dharana]
Theta  4 - 8 cps  - Hypnagogic Imagery
Delta  0 - 4 cps  - Deep Sleep - no images

Beta is normal, active, everyday, working consciousness. It is the dominant frequency range when a person is awake and doing more than one thing at a time, which is the primary definition of "stress" in some psychological schools of thought.

Alpha is focused and relaxed. "Focused" implies that only one thing is being done; "relaxed" indicates that other factors are not intruding in the form of distractions, worries, concerns or "breaks." This state is comparable to "concentration" (dharana) and it can be induced by one-pointed mental attention, pranayama, hypnosis, and a host of other relaxation techniques, including the use of cannabis or legal cannabinoid-type research chemicals.

Theta can also be compared to the concept of the astral plane, as that term is generally understood by magicians. If these visions arise in the sleep state, there is usually no control or stability, and "meaningful content" is sometimes sought in any remaining memory fragments through dream
analysis. If these visions arise in the meditative state, or through the use of a psychotropic drug, there is usually no control or stability in the beginning, but mastery can be developed."

I have not heard of a "gamma" wave activity - please define.
Theta (the astral plane) is activated by inhaling normally, but exhaling slowly.
The slower the exhalation, the lower the frequency induced.
Nose/mouth is less important than slow exhalation.

The opposite is seen when one is upset (a fast beta range); then one tends to exhale rapidly (in exasperation).


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/05/2014 7:32 pm  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_wave

Brain waves

    Delta wave – (0.1 – 3 Hz)
    Theta wave – (4 – 7 Hz)
    Alpha wave – (8 – 15 Hz)
    Mu wave – (7.5 – 12.5 Hz)
    SMR wave – (12.5 – 15.5 Hz)
    Beta wave – (16 – 31 Hz)
    Gamma wave – (32 – 100 Hz)

40 hz is ideal for inducing lucid dreams.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/05/2014 8:23 pm  

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113143946/shocking-you-into-lucid-dreams-051214/

In this article they combine rem sleep, which according to the article 'How dreams work': http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/dream2.htm, takes place in the fifth stage of the dream; delta waves. But dreams also occurs in the other stages.

So what's happening is that one combines theta/delta (rem sleep) with gamma in the frontal lobe.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113143946/shocking-you-into-lucid-dreams-051214/

            Alternatives
1. Try to combine the gamma-breath technique with the  dream machine ( http://www.netliberty.net/dreamachine-view.html#).
First try the dream machine around 4 hz, then take some breaths while going to sleep.

2. Place the computer on the floor by your bed. Shut off the light in the room. Adjust the dream machine to 40 hz (gamma waves) while breathing the gamma-breath, while you're falling to sleep.

then report the results on this thread


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5026
23/05/2014 8:42 pm  

I see the (current Wikipedia) frequencies have changed considerably from the "classical" definitions.

The "classical" frequencies
[/align:2f0utone]

Maybe the "new" definitions have merit. But the "older" concepts indicate that a brain running faster than 13 cps is burning itself out. Also, Coruscatio adds a footnote (that originally was found on Wikipedia:

"These are the commonly recognized ranges, they are not universal
definitions of the range of brain-waves. Researchers tend to follow these
guidelines, but many scholars use their own specific boundaries depending
on the range they choose to focus on, and still others will divide the bands
into sub-bands."[/align:2f0utone]


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
24/05/2014 1:24 am  

[flash=300,300:pd2syijl] https://www.youtube.com/v/LFFMtq5g8N4[/flash:pd2syijl]


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
24/05/2014 9:11 am  

Correction regarding the gamma-breath: it's two in and out, deep mouth breaths, two in and out, deep mouth breaths....


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
25/05/2014 11:31 am  

Report
I tried alternative 2 last night.
Although I had to adjust the dream machine to 25 hz. 40 hz was just to fast blinking for me to register the blinking with closed eye lids. Maybe it could work if the screen was closer, like in the VR-headset Oculus rift.

Anyway, I fell asleep easy, exhausted after a hard day's work, and experienced a very vivid and strange dream. I coughed up a pink coral stone and thought: "what is this". I wouldn't go as far to categorize these kind of dreams as astral projection, but it is a step closer.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
26/05/2014 6:22 pm  

Hi

I am really enjoying your posts pertaining to collecting data regarding stages of your various sleep-cycles and discussions therefrom.

Many years ago, before the insomnia,  I initiated Dharana upon a very simple figure when in readiness to fall asleep.  On a number of occasions I managed to retain conscious awareness beyond the hypnogogic stage to the point where I was wholly self-aware and could control my dreams.

On a couple of occasions I assumed an asana and imagined my body as empty and immediately I was projected onto the subtle planes.

I have just written and polished another rather long description of a successful technique that I have used. Shall post it asap.

Regards


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