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Sigils


 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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I have started to practice the Spare method of Sigil working, and it might just be me (or it might be the fact that i am fairly new to magick), but i find achieving a state of gnosis rather difficult. I understand that it may be different for everyone. One site told me meditation is good for charging the sigil, but it spoke mostly in metaphors and it was a tad bit hard to interepret.

I have no problem making the sigil, and im pretty sure that i cast it off right. But when i charge it, it just doesnt feel right. I've heard that sigil magick is both simple and effective, but i can really use some help. If any of you have advice or pointers, id grately appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,

Noxifer


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ptoner
(@ptoner)
The plants talk to me....
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2132
 

Hi Noxifer616
you could take the easy route as quoted by Grant Morrision on the Disinfo conference in 1999... charge it via self masturbation... instant and easiest way if a little crude.. also mentioned in "Practical Sigil Magick" by UD Frater, this book is no longer available tho which is a pity as its a very good guide to sigils. You can find it out there on the world wide web if u look hard enough.

So what i do recommend to watch on Youtube is the talk from Morrison mentioned above it is very funny and informative at the same time even if he is a little off his head but thats part of the scottish charm!

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=139112475 3"> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1391124753
this version may not mention the actual charging process, i think it was cut, it is on the official DVD version tho.
Good luck with this.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"ptoner" wrote:
Hi Noxifer616
you could take the easy route as quoted by Grant Morrision on the Disinfo conference in 1999... charge it via self masturbation... instant and easiest way if a little crude.. also mentioned in "Practical Sigil Magick" by UD Frater, this book is no longer available tho which is a pity as its a very good guide to sigils. You can find it out there on the world wide web if u look hard enough.

So what i do recommend to watch on Youtube is the talk from Morrison mentioned above it is very funny and informative at the same time even if he is a little off his head but thats part of the scottish charm!

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=139112475 3"> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1391124753
this version may not mention the actual charging process, i think it was cut, it is on the official DVD version tho.
Good luck with this.

Self-masturbation? Interesting.

Seriously, though, there is quite a clear explanation of sigil-casting (which I believe Grant is using) in Peter Carroll's Liber Null. Sigils wont necessarily do all your work for you though (I know this sounds obvious, but poeple usually want to cast sigils for stuff they dont want to do themselves, like get a girlfriend, get a job, etc)

ptoner: Cool avatar, by the way.

210 & 65,
111-418


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ptoner
(@ptoner)
The plants talk to me....
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2132
 
"Aum418" wrote:
ptoner: Cool avatar, by the way.

Thanks i created it myself and its actually my own personal sigil, a representation of myself in sigil form.

"Aum418" wrote:
Self-masturbation? Interesting.

yeah i expected that to raise a few eyebrows... even tho it does get you to that focused/cleared of state.. shortcut really but maybe not as powerful a sigil is formed imo.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

I think Aum was poking fun at the phrase 'self-masturbation'.... as if masturbation isn't ordinarily done by the self....


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ptoner
(@ptoner)
The plants talk to me....
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2132
 

lol i got ya. I am led to believe that there are a no. of items that can assist one these days....


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James
(@james)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 251
 

As well as visual sigils you can make mantras out of them too don't forget!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

Much thanks to all for the info. Aum418, i never got around to reading Liber Null, but i am a big fan of Carroll and the whole Chaos current, so thanks for the recomendation.

"James" wrote:
As well as visual sigils you can make mantras out of them too don't forget!

Interesting. I've heard of this method, but i'm not so sure on how it's used. Could you go into some more detail?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Noxifer616" wrote:
Much thanks to all for the info. Aum418, i never got around to reading Liber Null, but i am a big fan of Carroll and the whole Chaos current, so thanks for the recomendation.

"James" wrote:
As well as visual sigils you can make mantras out of them too don't forget!

Interesting. I've heard of this method, but i'm not so sure on how it's used. Could you go into some more detail?

This is also in Liber Null. Go get it and take a look.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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Joined: 15 years ago
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93,

ROFL I have to entertain myself here...

Why not begin yourself working on the Goetia, or the Grimoire of Armadel? Why not the Greater Key, or even pick up the Three Books of Occult Philosophy? Then there is always Franz Bardon with, I believe, _The Secrets of Magical Evocation_. Hell for that matter, grab a copy of _The Golden Dawn_ by Israel Regardie... or even _Modern Magick_ by Don Kraig. In fact, why not just say "to hell with it" and Evoke Bael right off the bat? Come on now...

Simply, it sounds to me like you don't have any clue what Sigils are used for in the first place, and have done no preliminary or preparatory work in regards to them and their usage. In fact, you could be doing nothing more than setting yourself up for your own failure.

93 93/93,.

Az


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

The goetia can be dangerous, Unlike the Enochian ether's goetia calls spirits and commands them to do things for you that may be stretching their nature a bit, sort of like damming a river to make electricity. The result could backfire and have unintended consequences, just as damming a river expands flood planes.

I wonder if it might be wiser to visit spirits in their proper plane and place, with interest in what it is they do, rather than with alterior motives, to use them for material gains or even spiritual advancements.

If we assume these spirits are atleast partially located in the subconscious mind, it may not be wise to start re-ordering them to different tasks, without a deep understanding of what each one does and how it keep you mind in tack.

To reassign a spirit that is in charge of an addiction of devious desire, may result mental instability, or even strange physical manifestation.

Some work with the goetia, may be necessary to understand the proper plan and function of these spirits, which solomon treated as wandering djinn, vagabonds without a home.

One wonder's if Solomon's temple was not an attempt to build these poor spirits a home?


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2964
 

93,

I must say to those who may not have caught it that my initial post was pure sarcasm.

In all seriousness, we have a 17 year old boy that is content in calling himself a psychic vampyre and thinks he wants to know how to rule the spirit realm at the outset of his magickal career, when truthfully he hasn't learned how to rule himself yet.

Thusly, someone so bent on skipping the necessary steps to be able to Control the things he digs up is naturally headed for disaster. As such, he will end up in the same predicament as our friend being 'assaulted' by the 'Satanists' across the street.

First, the issue of psychic vampyrism is just plain silly. Trust me, I've went my own rounds with it early in life, in fact at the age of 17. In short, YOUR OWN BODY is like a gigantic electrical and life energy generator. You have all the energy you will ever need once you figure out how to get that Kundalini moving! As such, what has been termed 'psychic vampyrism' is more often a case of a simple succubus trying to leach off others instead of doing his own work. A "real" psychic vampyre would be uninterested in using Sigils unless he was trying to make "Voodoo dolls" (slang here) which is really pathetic.

Continuing on with this, any such use of Sigils proper requires the preliminary steps and practices. A Sigil proper is any group of symbols which is given a purpose, then commonly used as an Amulet of Talisman. All of the more seasoned people here should know this. this being the case, why even give any such knowledge to someone who is A) obviously not doing his homework, B) doesn't give a damn about the proper order of things and wants the shortcut to apparent 'power' (ie. FAILURE)?

Simply, learn the LBRP. Start there.

93 93/93


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Baxian
(@baxian)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 74
 

Hi Azidonis

"Azidonis" wrote:
First, the issue of psychic vampyrism is just plain silly.

Keep in mind that his (Noxifer616) reasons for psychic vampyrism have some fairly good, in my view, intentions. Not too silly, just silly enough. πŸ™‚ .
Though I think anyone with some little training in the occult might take exception to having even a little of there "energy" "taken", and retaliate perhaps.
His approach in my honest opinion, is not the best in the sense of it's likely potential for obstructing someones will.
But! I like his lofty intentions regarding the keeping of the Astral body etc. upon death and the desire to find a way to feed it!

Yeah and Sigil work without preliminary training of the will, imagination etc. and perhaps even getting some HGA actions going, can sometimes lead to getting what you want,(oh crap) and having to deal with that new girlfriend. πŸ˜†

Baxian


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2964
 

93,

Psychic Vampyrism - I won't go into instructional details. However, let's imagine that this person does not have proper training, and since he is trying to do things out of order he is obviously negligent to the idea of important details. Thusly, he will probably end up being consumed by some disease or another, and we will see him months or years down the road complaining about how sad his life has become and that he can't find any way out of it, possibly that he is getting 'assaulted' by the kids across the street, and hopefully at that time someone will pull up this thread and read that he was duly warned.

93 93/93,

Az


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

The magician provides the tools and lights the path.

It is still upon his shoulders to take the first step to see where it goes.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Sigils seem to work best when you don't care about the results that much. Its ideal to forget all about the sigil after the charging. As far as masturbation its the orgasm. At the point of orgasm switch the focus of your mind from the sexual act to the sigil and its intention. The mind and body are very focused at orgasm. Also you can take the sigil and depending on the type of sigil the intention you can stick it to a certain corner of the TV screen and watch porn. If the intent is for lets say power or justice perhaps watch some SM if your intent is to make friends then watch orgies. Or if you want money watch a movie in which the main character obtains lots of money. Use graffiti. Draw your sigil on the pavement outside the door to the bank. I think you should get "Modern Magick" by Donald Kraig I just down loaded it from piratebay. Start on page one and do the exercises especially LBRP. Don't take short cuts and remember its all about the great work anything else is black magic. Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all else shall be added unto you.Matt6:33 The middle pillar alone is enough to charge the talisman. I usually just use sigils by puttin them on the talisman along with all the other stuff. Sometimes I will make one and use the graffiti or porno methods but I prefer the traditional safer surer way. Really if you can't do the LBRP or something learn that first. And remember to destroy the talisman after its purpose is served or at a predetermined time. I just feel more right when I do it the traditional way. Sigils I don't know I just feel there is something missing but they can work. And remember harm ye none.93.


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sonofthestar
(@sonofthestar)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 375
 

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

First choose your sigil by any one of the methods for obtaining them. Do not create the sigil yet; only memorize it. When you can recall it perfectly, every shape and convolution---then it is time to bring it into physical manifestation.

Gather all that you need to create the sigil on a table before you. If you are observing things such as time and planetary positions etc, then let this be configured into the equation. Do the usual banishing rituals.
Take the pen in hand, or marker in the appropriate color. Now, without looking at the parchment as you are inking it with the sigil, paint or draw it. Do not look at the sigil, even when you have finished. Roll it up and stuff it right into the vessel prepared to receive it and the charge.
This is why a simple symbol for the sigil is best, unless you have an excellent and well trained memory retention through such practices as given in the works of AC.
With the symbol drawn, and inserted into the vessel---charge it with the method chosen. You can look at what you are doing now! Be sure you are read up about using the use of the vessel or urn for the magical incubation chamber of the sigil before you commence any of this.
From there, do the closing ritual.

Now, be assured that you will indeed β€œfeel” the energy and power contained within the vessel. You will not be able to doubt what your senses reveal through looking at it, or holding it.

And yes, if your will is not β€œpure” in the Thelemic sense, you will get what you want---with an added extra!

Love is the law, love under will.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

πŸ’‘ May I suggest Jan Fries' book 'Visual Magick', which is direct, creative, human, witty and intelligent in its suggestions for working with sigils?

One potential criticism of Carroll's "state of gnosis" theme is that it suggests there is one single such entity. There isn't. (And it isn't an entity anyway, merely a a label.) Your "state of gnosis" and mine - and Carroll's - if they 'exist' as such, will be wildly different and unique to each of us. Other people have used the word 'trance', which is better.

Sigils offer a very subtle and ingenious feedback system between the 'frontline' personality that you call you, and what Fries like to term "the deep mind"; and that part of our consciousness certainly doesn't need storming like the Bastille did - you can just ask it to do things for you. If you can negotiate kindly with it, it probably will do them. The sigil is a token in this transaction.

Let me ask you something: How do you get someone to serve you in a shop? Do you jump up and down holding your breath in front of them, one arm twisted up your back and with the other masturbating furiously - and yelling? I think not. I certainly hope not. You say 'Hello' or 'Oh, excuse me...' - don't you?

If anyone tells you that using sigils is any different from, or more difficult than, that - consider that they may be mistaken.

The original writer on Sigils, Mr Spare, in 'The Book of Pleasure' refers to "...the subtle suggestion of the Sigil." I've never been quite able to equate that formulation, and the blissful glide of sigils in action, with the theatrics offered in many modern (Spare-derived!) books on the subject. It seems that you may be in the same quandary.

Try Fries, he's good.

O


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algoul
(@algoul)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 61
 

I think that oneiros is right, Mr Fires's book is for me one of the most interesting book issued in recent times and his approach is very practical and easy going


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

This thread brings back to me in a big way the reason why the world's esoteric traditions have been kept very quiet, and only handed down from individual teacher to individual student, by word of mouth and personal instruction only. There are (seem to be) a lot of relatively practiced individuals on Lashtal. But it's the few that seem to be misguided that will suffer the worst. Especially those that don't sound so misguided. They will elicit material from the more mature of us that is 'correct', but dangerous to a misunderstanding neophyte.

I've gotten a lot out of Lashtal, because I've never taken initiation from anyone (except for a few who didn't know they were initiating me πŸ˜‰ ). But it can be tough for most people to discern whose words to follow here and whose words not to follow, at least right away.

At least with Crowley's original writings (and Gurdjieff's and Patanjali and ... etc.) one gets the feeling right away that one needs to know more before practicing in depth. On a site like this though (bless it) it's all too common to be offered 'simple' directions by someone sounding authoritative, but which advice will lead to trouble.

Newcomers - (i.e. under 30 years of age) - take all advice from any animate humans lightly. ALL advice. Heck, even advice from astral beings or dream gurus should be held suspect until validated.

The bottom line was stated well by someone above - YOU ALREADY HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED. If you are looking to demons, other people's energy, sigils, or spells to 'get you somewhere', then you are going the wrong way. These are all either A : ) training materials to show you that you have everything that you need or B : ) training materials to remind you later on that you already have everything you need. This is because humans are subject to TIME, which makes them subject to EGO and DESIRE. And this draws them from the path.

Praxis, sadhana, skillful means.... will not get you what you want. They will get you a functional YOU. Then YOU can get what YOU ... need. Because you will forget want.

Bah, I'm preaching to the choir mostly, and the congregation probably will glaze over this uninterested.

Selah.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2964
 

93,

Good form, jtm!

As I said above, "husly, he will probably end up being consumed by some disease or another, and we will see him months or years down the road complaining about how sad his life has become and that he can't find any way out of it, possibly that he is getting 'assaulted' by the kids across the street, and hopefully at that time someone will pull up this thread and read that he was duly warned. "

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"jtm" wrote:
Bah, I'm preaching to the choir mostly, and the congregation probably will glaze over this uninterested.

Maybe, but if only one takes heed, the sermon has not been in vain... πŸ˜‰

bazelek


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Thanks, bazelek, it's true.

I feel old, giving advice like this LOL.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

I've found, through investigating chaos magick, magick magick, nlp, gnosticism, buddhism, music theory, timber framing etc... that it's not the forgetting-about-the-sigil that's important. They key is to separate the psychic subconscious drive from the actual desire for the thing in the higher mind. If you block out 'why' you want a thing, or the actual wanting of it, but program the animal/lizard mind to DRIVE for it, it will work.

So - you creates yer sigil, meditate on it for what you WANT at this point. Bind it to that in your mind through whatever technique - masturbating, meditating, yoga, tantric sex (squares the power, not doubles), then put it away and have a shower.

Now, forget about that. And put the sigil in a few places where you will see it, at least subconsciously (maybe in your peripheral vision) on a semi-regular basis. Not a poster, but maybe written on a napkin by a lamp.

Then - train yourself (through whatever method - this is where patient training in your youth comes in handy) so that whenever you see the sigil, your mind associates it with SOMETHING ELSE COMPLETELY. But this something must itself be a basic drive. I suggest sex or food. In other words, I suggest sex. It is essential that you not allow the mind for one instant to associate the programmed ultimate target. It must not arise now.

So turn the sigil into a pornographic object of lust somehow. (this is part of good sigil design). Something that will overpower any other basic desire and instantly take your attention away from the target.

Thus, when your subconscous sees the symbol (helps if you don't really 'notice' it), it helps the lower mind remember to signal with [sexual] endorphins when you are on the right track toward that SYMBOL. And thus the uppermind tends to be rewarded when on the right track to that symbol, even though it doesn't know it.

The symbol exists differently, or can have different meanings, in the different levels of the mind. Separating them, along with separating the 3 pelvic muscle groups, is the key. 😎 The separation helps the 'wanting' mind to not focus on the wanting, but on the present energy-rich reward (endorphins). Otherwise, it gives up very easily, and tends to grab a cheeseburger instead. Fewer endorphins, but it's something. And then naptime and no more self-programming.

Hope this helps. It helps me.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but this one thread was the most fitting for my little stupid (? I hope not.) question:

my humble question is this little baby:
what if you got blocks? say for example you had an amulet years ago and got many things just by telling your wish personally to that amulet. Then when you wished for something "non material" it hot really spooky and that thing haunted you a lot of years till you knew how to get rid of it.
Then you try to "wish" something from a sigil but have that impenetrable subconscious (or whereever) wall that doesn't WANT to let something thru: even panicks, if you try harder.

This same wish that fucked up the amulet seems to still generate a kind of mental or subconscious block.

What would you experienced guys do? Force yourself to do different techniques of "embedding the sigil" again and again or try a different one? Have any of you had some problem - a subconscious block afraid to get what you want - once?

I know this sounds a little mad πŸ™‚

Thank you so much for reading this and maybe you have an answer (or two?) to my problem?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Gandalf" wrote:
maybe you have an answer (or two?) to my problem?

Thirteen possible answers could be in this simple checklist:

http://bookult.org/files/Ritual%20Magic(k)/Alan%20Chapman%20-%20Basic%20Sigil%20Ritual%20BSR.pdf


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2964
 

Wow, I don't even really remember this thread. Talk about necromancy.


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