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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
08/04/2009 5:03 pm  

93 all,

I was reading this page: http://www.ecauldron.net/starruby.php on the Star Ruby and wondered about something. I read this page a long time ago and was actually discouraged from learning this ritual because at the bottom it says:

Some people recommend that Star Ruby wouldn't be performed as a stand alone ritual, but that it should be followed by some kind of invocation. The reason usually given for this is that Star Ruby is even more effective as a banishing ritual than LBRP - at least for those who know and understand it. The ritual creates a type of "vacuum" and unless you "fill" it with something you've called yourself, the vacuum may attract less welcome visitors.

I looked this up and saw something similar elsewhere, where it was stated that even Crowley suggested that the LBRP be used as one's daily banishing ritual, and this only be used for [special cases?]

Looking at this again, it would appear that the invocations targeting the Junges, Daimonos, etc would serve this purpose, in that they seem to replace the archangels of the LBRP.

I was formerly a part of the Stella Matutina, in which I was told that the LBRP was really an invocation, because after banishing everything (and because not only are you calling the archangels, but "nature abhors a vacuum"), forces rush back in to fill the void in a balanced manner. In this case, if the quote from the above site is correct (stating that the Star Ruby provides for more effective banishing than the LBRP), would that not also make the Star Ruby more powerful at drawing a balance of forces to you?

And, if I'm completely off base, what kind of invocation would one recommend be performed after the Star Ruby? Should I replace my daily 2 LBRPs with 2 Star Ruby performances, for best effect?

Thanks everyone, for your input!

93 93/93
Nanamin


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Proteus
(@proteus)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 243
08/04/2009 5:11 pm  

93 nanamin

This has been covered a few times in these boards. Search for LBRP, banishing, etc.

93 93/93
John


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
08/04/2009 6:32 pm  

John,

Thank you for your informative and well thought out post, but although searches both before posting this and just now have turned up a variety of inquiries and responses related to the Star Ruby, there does not seem to be anything that mentions whether or not a separate invocation needs to follow this ritual (let alone anything suggesting which), nor any reasoning behind whether or not this is necessary. It may be however that I am a poor searcher, and if so, I would be immensely grateful if you could point me in the right direction on this matter. In any case, I think if it's something that's difficult to find, it may as well be repeated in a different form; if we only point to other sources of information any time someone has a question, no new discussion will ever occur.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
08/04/2009 11:16 pm  

The IAO Pan part of the Star Ruby seems an invocation also. I don't think another invocation is necessary after the Star Ruby.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
08/04/2009 11:17 pm  

The Star Ruby is often followed by the Star Sapphire, the pentagram followed by the hexagram, or is often used as banishing to prepare for invocation of various kinds. However, it has been my experience over many years of practice that the Star Ruby serves very nicely as a stand-alone ritual. Don't take my word for it, though - it might be different for you. Only one way to find out.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/04/2009 8:37 am  
"zardoz" wrote:
The IAO Pan part of the Star Ruby seems an invocation also. I don't think another invocation is necessary after the Star Ruby.

Thanks 🙂 So do you think the link I quoted in my original post is incorrect?

"philfarber" wrote:
The Star Ruby is often followed by the Star Sapphire, the pentagram followed by the hexagram, or is often used as banishing to prepare for invocation of various kinds. However, it has been my experience over many years of practice that the Star Ruby serves very nicely as a stand-alone ritual. Don't take my word for it, though - it might be different for you. Only one way to find out.

Thank you 🙂 Wouldn't the Star Sapphire have the same issue, if an invocation *were* to be needed? In any case, I will learn the ritual and see how it compares with the LBRP. As there commonly is not an instruction to follow with an invocation in any authoritative material (or most elsewhere), I'll assume the site in question is misinformed.

I appreciate the responses, and if anyone else has anything to add, I'm open to hearing it!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/04/2009 9:47 am  
"nanamin" wrote:

Thanks 🙂 So do you think the link I quoted in my original post is incorrect?

I've not ever experienced anything like a vacuum or unwanted visitors when doing the Star Ruby. Quite the opposite, actually. A key for understanding any ritual is to just do it a lot - practice, practice, practice. You can trust and rely more upon your sensing and intuition to tell when something isn't working for you or having an adverse effect.


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Montvid
(@montvid)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 36
10/04/2009 11:37 am  

I think the daemon part in the LBPR, Star Ruby is an invocation.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/04/2009 3:17 pm  

For the most part these "banishings", SR and LBRP, are much more than that (and Star Sapphire, too, tho I would probably not lump that in as a "general use banishing"). They include operations of evocation and invocation as part of their "mechanism." They don't simply chase things away, but rather change your own presence and experience relative to a location or situation.

Personally, I think that getting new practitioners to endlessly repeat the LBRP is a kind of trick aimed toward having them get a smaller "taste" or "reflection" of a full-tilt HGA operation. But maybe I'm giving away the punchline here...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/04/2009 5:40 pm  

Well, remeber that Star Ruby is also an invocation of "the energies of the Aeon of Horus"


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
11/04/2009 8:17 pm  
"N.O.X" wrote:
Well, remeber that Star Ruby is also an invocation of "the energies of the Aeon of Horus"

That's what Liber Reguli says, are you sure the same has been said of the Star Ruby?

All I have to base my information on are teachings I received stating that these banishing rituals are really invocation rituals, and then contradictory information from the aforementioned site stating that the Star Ruby is so effective at banishing, that you need to invoke the desired energies to fill the void, otherwise undesirable ones may. I always thought that the void created was supposed to be filled in a balanced manner or whatnot, possibly because one calls the archangels (in the LBRP) which correspond with each element in a balanced way.


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sonofthestar
(@sonofthestar)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 375
11/04/2009 9:21 pm  

93!

nanamin,

Why not perform the Star Ruby,
then proceed with an act of will,
which can be as simple as an affirmation of some kind (which then becomes an actual spell)
then complete things with the Star Ruby again?

This method only takes a little longer than twice as long as the usual method.

In that way, you will be certain that everything is completed and no thing is left out.
I have always consider the individual performing the ritual,
to be "the pillar stabilized/balanced-- in the void".

93! 93! 93!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
12/04/2009 3:53 am  

nanamin,

That site doesn't even outright make the claim, but says that "some people recommend." Seriously, I've performed the SR perhaps thousands of times, under a variety of situations and never had any experience I'd describe as "a vacuum."

Anyway, the "energies of the Aeon" thing is, as you say, in reference to Reguli. However, note that AC used the same structure, with different content, for a variety of rituals - SR, SS, Reguli, and Samekh among them. An interesting question to ask might be - what do they all have in common? Hint - it's not a "vacuum."

"nanamin" wrote:
"N.O.X" wrote:
Well, remeber that Star Ruby is also an invocation of "the energies of the Aeon of Horus"

That's what Liber Reguli says, are you sure the same has been said of the Star Ruby?

All I have to base my information on are teachings I received stating that these banishing rituals are really invocation rituals, and then contradictory information from the aforementioned site stating that the Star Ruby is so effective at banishing, that you need to invoke the desired energies to fill the void, otherwise undesirable ones may. I always thought that the void created was supposed to be filled in a balanced manner or whatnot, possibly because one calls the archangels (in the LBRP) which correspond with each element in a balanced way.


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sonofthestar
(@sonofthestar)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 375
12/04/2009 4:36 am  

93!

nanamin,

Do the Star Ruby in the morning;
the day itself, is then opened----to become a Thelemic ritual.
Make your daily "going about your business" the ritual in itself.
Then at the end of the day, before beddie-by time,
perform the Star Ruby again.

Each day, the first, will be your cover page; the second, your
closing page.
Between these openings, and closings to each day,
write your life willfully.

93! 93! 93!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
22/04/2009 3:30 pm  

93/93,

To answer the opening post, it came to my mind like Zardoz seemed to have allready mentioned above, that Star Ruby does include the invocation of Pan allready. I have also come up with the thought that it could be used as an opening for some other ritual, but as its more demanding and powerful than normal LBRP, I usually use it now-a-days just to clear all the filth from me and to make my personal demons come out, that I am not conscious but which disturb my balance. One person said once "Whereas LBRP can be said to be a choir of angels, SR could be described as a rock-concert!" ,while we were talking about the effections and demands between different rituals and it kinda tells `something`. Usually some meditation or some other light self-observation after Star Ruby is enough at least for me, since it has come out for me as really effective ritual.
I have used SR as an opening/ending (though ending was a little bit modified that time) only once with one sigil-casting, and it left kinda negative feeling for me, so I haven`t since then used it in such a way. One other option for SR+Invocation that I could recommend is including Star Ruby and Star Sapphire, micro- and macrocosmic rituals with both NOX- and LVX-signs in one day working. But not immediately done one after one, but by so that there comes time between them for you to observe the effections of the ritual.
I havent personally felt that there would have been any disturbing forces to "fill the vacuum" or anything like that, so I think its really just a matter of taste if one is willing to perform SR only or with some invocation/evocation etc. added. I don´t think either with or without would somehow be objectively recommendable.

93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
23/04/2009 1:47 am  

nanamin,

You're right, it is Reguli. Sorry 'bout that. I was a bit cuntfused 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
25/04/2009 6:22 pm  

I too have never felt a void or vacuum that might be filled by undesirable spirits. Quite the contrary - after performing the SR, I always feel like the Universe "has got my back", so to speak. And the Star Ruby does in itself have an invocation at the end - where we are invoking the Kerubic Guardians Junges, Teletarchai, Synoches and Daimones (as well as the NOX signs which have already been mentioned). Now if you wanted to invoke a particular Archangel, say, or evoke a Goetic spirit, then of course you could follow the SR with either an invocation or evocation, but I too have found the SR to work wonderfully as a stand-alone ritual...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
27/04/2009 9:04 pm  

Thank you, everyone.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/05/2009 3:39 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

Firstly, i'd have to say... Do what thou wilt.

Secondly as from Liber ABA:

"...[AC] says: "Don't believe me!" He does not ask for followers; would despise and refuse them. He wants an independant and self-reliant body of students to follow out their own methods of research. If he can save them time and trouble by giving a few useful "tips," his work will have been done to his own satisfaction."

That be said... and thirdly, It's not about what he meant or if he wrote step by step the exact use for all the rites, for it is you to decide and deliver to yourself your answers. Research is good, however don't limit yourself to the writings. For example, I used to be the type that would not perform or study because i wasn't 100% sure of how the Master does it or all the things he wrote about it. When all this time I wasn't meant to know exactly how he did it. I was supposed to know how I do it! Wallah! and Abrahadabra! 😆

Finally and fourthly: Experiment! and "Enflame thyself with prayer!"


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
13/05/2009 8:39 pm  
"nanamin" wrote:
93 all,

I was reading this page: http://www.ecauldron.net/starruby.php on the Star Ruby and wondered about something. I read this page a long time ago and was actually discouraged from learning this ritual because at the bottom it says:

Some people recommend that Star Ruby wouldn't be performed as a stand alone ritual, but that it should be followed by some kind of invocation. The reason usually given for this is that Star Ruby is even more effective as a banishing ritual than LBRP - at least for those who know and understand it. The ritual creates a type of "vacuum" and unless you "fill" it with something you've called yourself, the vacuum may attract less welcome visitors.

I looked this up and saw something similar elsewhere, where it was stated that even Crowley suggested that the LBRP be used as one's daily banishing ritual, and this only be used for [special cases?]

Looking at this again, it would appear that the invocations targeting the Junges, Daimonos, etc would serve this purpose, in that they seem to replace the archangels of the LBRP.

I was formerly a part of the Stella Matutina, in which I was told that the LBRP was really an invocation, because after banishing everything (and because not only are you calling the archangels, but "nature abhors a vacuum"), forces rush back in to fill the void in a balanced manner. In this case, if the quote from the above site is correct (stating that the Star Ruby provides for more effective banishing than the LBRP), would that not also make the Star Ruby more powerful at drawing a balance of forces to you?

And, if I'm completely off base, what kind of invocation would one recommend be performed after the Star Ruby? Should I replace my daily 2 LBRPs with 2 Star Ruby performances, for best effect?

Thanks everyone, for your input!

93 93/93
Nanamin

Care Nanamin,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

first and foremost, I want to extend my appreciation to you for actually THINKING about what you're doing!!! there's all too little of that in the online magick/thelema forums, what with the preponderance of armchair magicians and all that sort of thing.

now then...

the star ruby, properly performed, replaces the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram, which is osirian (asarian, really) by nature. the old LBRP gives all glory and power to some transcendant "god," which is a totally inappropriate point of view for the aeon of horus.

(that ought to piss off the golden dawn types!)

yes, yes, i know, crowley used it. the aeon was young, he was brand new, can't blame the guy for not knowing any better from time to time.

all that aside, you seem to be asking if a preliminary banishing like the star ruby should be performed by itself, or as part of a larger working. the answer, fortunately for everybody, is that both approaches are correct.

when i'm in a rush, and unsure as to whether or not i'll be able to get some serious work done that day or no, i'll simplyperform the star ruby on it's own. if i'm getting up to something more involved, i use it between the consecrations and the oath of operations - see book four, pt. iii for The Skinny on that. the brief, "i'm on my phone" version, is that a typical ritual should (if you think Book Four is any sort of guide) consist of the consecration of the temple, lighting the candles, consecration of the circle and then the rest of the tools, an appropriate banishing, the oath, a preliminary invocation, whatever magick you're going to get up to, a license to depart, and then an adoration to nuit. of course, if the ritual involves a bloody sacrifice of some form or another, the adoration needs to be performed BEFORE the ritual (after the banishing) as there is no blood to be shed in the temple of nuit. see AL I, 59 and the commentaries thereon for details.

Love is the law, love under will.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
31/10/2009 10:57 am  

I was under the impression that the banishing ritual did not create a vacuum of any kind but just removed the imbalanced, false, or illusory energies that may have accumulated. After one banshing ritual I had the idea that the concept is to banish the qlippoth. The angels are placed at the quaters to prevent these negative forces from rising through malkuth. this is, of course, by seeing the qlippothic tree as below the normal tree.

Notice too that Crowley did using banishing pentagrams to test entities. If they were removed then they were false, if the banishing ritual made them stronger then they were good. If this is the case then doing a banishing ritual after any working should only amplify the postivie effect or remove the negative effect.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/11/2009 2:42 am  

93,

I'm the author of the article quoted in the first post. It's a short introductory article, with space limitations to have my explaining done in.

As has been pointed out in a post above, the key line in the quoted part is "some people" and while I was doing research for the article in question, I did indeed run into people saying just that.

Speaking from personal experience, the ritual works perfectly as is, alone. Not to mention it working as a starting point for further workings.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/11/2009 4:33 am  

I have never felt negative energies immediately rush in to fill the vacuum of a banished space, but extensive practise of both LBRP and SR by themselves, without following up with invocation, did lead to attracting unusual and, in some cases, highly undesirable experiences in the weeks that followed. This happened several times.

I think it’s a sound principle to follow a banishing with an invocation – if you don’t have a hang-up about Christianity, see for example Luke 11:24. The way I understand my experiences is that banishings cause one to “light up” on the astral and thus attract attention to oneself. As with any change in one’s evolution, you will attract correspondingly new experiences to test whether you are able to survive at the new level of heightened awareness. The irony is when you later discover your paranoia is, in fact, fully justified and you can’t talk about it with others. Just remember everything that happens is moving you toward an ever-closer relationship with your HGA.

Typical banishing/invoking combinations:

LBRP + LHR
SR + SS

The former is the Old Aeon version and the latter is the New Aeon version. Both work on the union of the 5 (microcosm) with the 6 (macrocosm) for eventual KCHGA. I don't like to mix Hebrew divine names with Chaldean ones, so I would do one or the other, but not mix it up (e.g. LBRP + SS or SR + LHR). Others may disagree on this last point.

You could also try LBRP + Middle Pillar...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/11/2009 4:47 am  

I should add:

The Star Ruby seems to be inspired by Babalon (that's been my experience of the ritual - although I've never read that anywhere).


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/11/2009 5:12 am  

Did some quick research. Appendix V lists the star ruby as the stone for Chokmah (Therion) and the star sapphire as the stone for Binah (Babalon). That would explain my experience. Both of these are in the Supernals so that should give you an idea of what you're getting into with the New Aeon version.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
03/11/2009 1:00 pm  

93
I'm glad that I stopped to read this. I'm rehearsing SR-SS- Mass of the phoenix, to be done at noon on a mountain top. But I have always seen SR as a stand alone for the same purpose as the LBRP but stronger. 🙂


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xalhad
(@xalhad)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 13
03/11/2009 8:29 pm  

Something I have been doing for some time is to insert the first gesture of Vel Reguli into the SR after the invocation of Pan. I have also used the first gesture in place of the Pan invocation. Kind of cut and past but it has made a nice daily ritual for me.
Xalhad


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