Terrence McKenna's ...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Terrence McKenna's Timewave Zero and novelty theory.  

Page 1 / 2
  RSS

dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
08/04/2020 4:17 pm  

Has anyone used McKenna's graph to study historical resonance? If so what did you find? 

Obviously the accelerated novelty levels in the 20th century relate to the Thelemic New Aeon and it's radical force and fire.


Quote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
08/04/2020 4:42 pm  

I have never read much of his work beyond the mushroom-growing book he did with his brother.

But i have always had the impression he is a nut. This may be because an annoying "psychedelics are literally God, and are the only God" hippie i know is obsessed with his work, and is a nut. On the other hand, TM's brother is a very serious scientist, and has been involved with some of TM's work. So my mind is open, but inclined to the TM = nut theory unless persuaded otherwise.


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
08/04/2020 7:22 pm  

@ignant666

 

So my mind is open, but inclined to the TM = nut theory unless persuaded otherwise.

 

Me too.  He stressed that his theory is not occult or mystcial.  Well you're interested in the I Ching so that's a start.   I know you don't like youtube videos but this is  a good ten minute overview by the man himself;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf4QTtnPEWg

 

Sure he was a druggie but I would say that he was a sceptic and academic.   He had some sort of Amazon jungle drug-experience communication with perhaps his HGA, it told him that one 24 hour day is actually composed of four other days.   This led to him to investigate the possibility that whereas the West has found 108 elements to document all matter and energy the East found elements of time (via contemplationwhich are documented in the 64 Hexagrams.    What came to mind for him was the structure of Joyce's Ulysses which was orchestrated to make each chapter (during day in Dublin) correlate to the sequence of the mythic journeys of Odysseus thousands of years earlier.    He also believed the 64 codons of DNA do correlate to the 64 Hexagrams.      

 

From the wiki;  

 

When examining the King Wen sequence of the 64 hexagrams, McKenna noticed a pattern. He analysed the "degree of difference" between the hexagrams in each successive pair and claimed he found a statistical anomaly, which he believed suggested that the King Wen sequence was intentionally constructed,[5] with the sequence of hexagrams ordered in a highly structured and artificial way, and that this pattern codified the nature of time's flow in the world.[28] With the degrees of difference as numerical values, McKenna worked out a mathematical wave form based on the 384 lines of change that make up the 64 hexagrams. He was able to graph the data and this became the Novelty Time Wave


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
08/04/2020 7:58 pm  
I read the wikipedia article about him, and realized i have read more of him than i thought. i have read The Archaic Revival, and Food Of The Gods, as well as the mushroom-growing book. And as i said i have heard his ideas endlessly since the '90s from a hippie i used to buy weed from, who was a pal of Terence's.
Posted by: @dom

Sure he was a druggie but I would say that he was a sceptic and academic. 

I have no problem with him being a "druggie", having sometimes been described that way myself (including, shockingly, here, in what one might have hoped were the open-minded forums of the ACS).

An academic he was not- he had no degree beyond a BA, and never had a university or research job. "Learned", i will certainly give you.

"Skeptic" is not the best of terms for a man who predicted, for many years, that humanity would reach a point of "maximum novelty", and either be fundamentally transformed, or cease to exist, on December 21, 2012. Not so's you'd notice it, as great-grandma used to say.

Mostly a nut, and his "theories" about "Timewave Zero" and "novelty theory" are the nuttiest part of a remarkably nutty body of work.

A good story about him is that when he was diagnosed with brain cancer, his doc advised him to smoke cannabis, and told him there was some evidence that cannabis use might have prevented his cancer. He replied, "Doctor, i can assure you that if that were true, we would not be having this conversation."


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
08/04/2020 9:47 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

 

I have no problem with him being a "druggie", having sometimes been described that way myself (including, shockingly, here, in what one might have hoped were the open-minded forums of the ACS).

An academic he was not- he had no degree beyond a BA, and never had a university or research job. "Learned", i will certainly give you.

"Skeptic" is not the best of terms for a man who predicted, for many years, that humanity would reach a point of "maximum novelty", and either be fundamentally transformed, or cease to exist, on December 21, 2012. Not so's you'd notice it, as great-grandma used to say.

Mostly a nut, and his "theories" about "Timewave Zero" and "novelty theory" are the nuttiest part of a remarkably nutty body of work.

I have no problems with druggies who come up with interesting theories.  Then again as Robin Williams said about Freud,"Here's a guy who took enough cocaine to kill a small horse every day for years just to conclude that he wanted to fuck his mother". 

 

December 21, 2012. Maximum novelty?  He's not here to explain what happened after 2012A.D. yes.  

 

What happens with his graph post 2012 A.D.? 

 

I'm still open to this idea of the I Ching as a periodic table of elements of time.  Mckenna reached 2012 as a critical date before he knew about the Mayan calendar.   That's some claim. 


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
08/04/2020 9:52 pm  

You'd have to read his books, or ask his acolytes, i suppose; i think we were supposed to all turn into self-transforming machine elves, or something.

He died in 2000, so he was writing about something that was further in the future than it is in the past now.

Your prophets tend to be fuzzy about the details of The End Of The World.


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
08/04/2020 10:03 pm  

All prophets are true save they understand a little ~ AL

 

A little what?


ReplyQuote
frater-r
(@frater-r)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 50
09/04/2020 5:10 am  

Terrance Mckenna was a bit of a con man during the last decade or so of his life. Terrance had a real bad Dmt trip in 1988 that scared the shit out of him. He basically quit using psychedelic drugs after that. So ,although he talked a lot about  'heroic doses', he wasn't actually taking them.  He was good at articulating the message of psychedelics  and popularizing them though.

 


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4503
09/04/2020 7:23 am  
Posted by: @dom

I have no problems with druggies who come up with interesting theories.

Like Crowley? Like Leary? Like RA Wilson? Like Shiva?

No, wait!  I am exempt. I have no interesting theory.

 


ReplyQuote
The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 526
09/04/2020 4:02 pm  

@shiva

Are you saying you have plenty of theories but none of them are interesting, or that you have no theories at all? 😛 


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4503
09/04/2020 6:46 pm  
Posted by: @duck

Are you saying you have plenty of theories but none of them are interesting, or that you have no theories at all?

No theories at all. The Theory that can be disclosed is not the True Theory.

 


frater-r liked
ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1409
09/04/2020 8:05 pm  

z

Posted by: @dom

A little what?

93?

L amed - 30

I od - 10

T eth - 9

T eth - 9

L amed - 30

(H) E - 5

Is this your new "topic for discussion" for us this week, dom?  Or is it (just) a continuation of the last ("Beginning and end") one:

I want to transpose McKenna's Timeline Zero 

Norma N Joy Conquest


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1503
09/04/2020 9:31 pm  

well maybe if you double back the backtrack and interchange the imprint.


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
09/04/2020 10:50 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

 

Mostly a nut, and his "theories" about "Timewave Zero" and "novelty theory" are the nuttiest part of a remarkably nutty body of work.

 

How 'learned' are you on the 64 codons and their three DNA bases?


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
09/04/2020 11:01 pm  

Not at all.

A quick google turns up a wikipedia chart that makes it pretty clear that correlating I Ching hexagrams and DNA codons is nut-baggery, based solely on there being 64 of each.

And if it somehow were true, so what?


ReplyQuote
djedi
(@djedi)
Member
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 214
09/04/2020 11:22 pm  
Posted by: @dom

He had some sort of Amazon jungle drug-experience communication with perhaps his HGA, it told him that one 24 hour day is actually composed of four other days. 

Is this timecube?


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
09/04/2020 11:32 pm  

That is the most bat-shit insane thing i have seen in some time, thank you. Makes most of our cipher-solvers look like rank amateurs.

In answer to your question, pretty much yes, countercultural version.


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
09/04/2020 11:42 pm  
Posted by: @djedi
Posted by: @dom

He had some sort of Amazon jungle drug-experience communication with perhaps his HGA, it told him that one 24 hour day is actually composed of four other days. 

Is this timecube?

I doubt it unless Mckenna lectured on 'timecubes'.   I didn't check it all out it just looked like a wacko new-age site.   No, I think McKenna believed that time has historical resonance with previous epochs in an inevitable cyclical sense i.e. an aeon-spanning groundhog day, well sort of.  Maybe Nietzsche touched on this with his eternal pendulum idea. 


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
10/04/2020 12:00 am  

The 'one day equals four day' idea in  the 'entity communication' is neither here nor there insofar as it was merely the trigger for a train of thought about historical resonance. 


ReplyQuote
Serpent 252
(@serpent252)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 166
10/04/2020 12:05 am  
Posted by: @frater-r

Terrance had a real bad Dmt trip in 1988 that scared the shit out of him. He basically quit using psychedelic drugs after that.

@frater-r

I've never heard/read this story before. Credible source, please, if possible.

(And his name is Terence McKenna, not Terrance Mckenna.)


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1503
10/04/2020 12:30 am  

Yoh Hey You Heya
in the mix today
unless that was the other day
and a moment
when the train of thought disappeared
and relapsed into the now
for the occasion
of a cyclic recapitulative plangency ?


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
10/04/2020 12:31 am  
Posted by: @serpent252
Posted by: @frater-r

Terrance had a real bad Dmt trip in 1988 that scared the shit out of him. He basically quit using psychedelic drugs after that.

@frater-r

I've never heard/read this story before. Credible source, please, if possible.

(And his name is Terence McKenna, not Terrance Mckenna.)

The slander?  Yes seems highly unlikely. 


ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1409
10/04/2020 1:11 am  
Posted by: @tiger

when the train of thought disappeared
and relapsed into the now
for the occasion
of a cyclic recapitulative plangency ?

Indubitably, by reason of the diaplonetic exogenitous treatment of the explicit foremost implosive super-tendency incumbent upon the origin.

Posted by: @dom
ted by: @serpent252
Posted by: @frater-r

Terrance had a real bad Dmt trip in 1988 that scared the shit out of him. He basically quit using psychedelic drugs after that.

@frater-r

I've never heard/read this story before. Credible source, please, if possible.

The slander?  Yes seems highly unlikely. 

I remember reading this story myself somewhere though, although I thought it was just boring old psyilocybin rather than high-octane dmt which caused the effect, and that TMcK was freaked out by the sudden nihilistic meaningless which he saw behind everything instead of - well, deep meaning everywhere, I suppose.

A lesson for us all there, kiddoes - no matter with what psychoactives, no matter how many times you may have had them before, you never quite know exactly what effect they're going to have upon your state of mind...

Good (mental) health,

N Joy


ReplyQuote
frater-r
(@frater-r)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 50
10/04/2020 1:23 am  

@jamiejbarter

@dom

 

That part of the story is told by Dennis, Terrance's brother, in _The Brotherhood Of The Screaming Abyss_. It is mentioned in numerous discussion groups as well. For instance: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=51644


ReplyQuote
The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 526
10/04/2020 1:27 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

But i have always had the impression he is a nut.

Yes but there are nuts and nuts who are sane enough to know they're nuts. For me McKenna's talent was as a public speaker. He had a whiny and slightly effeminate voice that some might find annoying but I find almost hypnotic. I don't care much for his books these days but his talks are enjoyable to listen to, one of his best is on Finnegan's Wake.

 

Posted by: @shiva

No theories at all. The Theory that can be disclosed is not the True Theory.

Good, good. That's probably the best way if one can manage it.

 

Posted by: @serpent252

I've never heard/read this story before. Credible source, please, if possible.

From what I remember it was a bad shroom trip, its in one of his talks, and there's a lot of them so it might be hard to find. I don't believe he quit using psychedelics because of it though, maybe temporarily.


ReplyQuote
frater-r
(@frater-r)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 50
10/04/2020 1:43 am  

@duck

@serpent252

As I just stated in another reply, it's in _The Brotherhood Of The Screaming Abyss_, written by his brother Dennis. It is also mentioned in many online forums: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=51644


ReplyQuote
Serpent 252
(@serpent252)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 166
10/04/2020 2:18 am  

@frater-r

OK, thank you for the link. On that forum one universecannon had written:

"He had a really bad trip on mushrooms around 1988 and then took it easy with psychedelics in the following years. He would dose but i hear it was always low and infrequently, apart from some daily low-level lsd at times (and copious amounts of cannabis everyday, of course)

"In the book the brotherhood of the screaming abyss dennis talks about how after finding the tumor in his brain they did take psilocybin together, but it was only a lower end dose then as well."

Posted by: @duck

there are nuts and nuts

Yes, Duck, I agree with you. And thank you for your answer. Hypnotic voice, yes.


ReplyQuote
Serpent 252
(@serpent252)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 166
10/04/2020 2:28 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

TMcK was freaked out by the sudden nihilistic meaningless which he saw behind everything instead of - well, deep meaning everywhere, I suppose.

Jamie, et al., do you see any similarity between the above and

 

“The meditation of this afternoon resulted in an initiation so stupendous that I dare not hint at its Word. It is the supreme secret of a Magus, and it is so awful that I tremble even now—two hours later and more ... as I write concerning it. In a single instant I had the Key to the whole of the Chinese wisdom. In the light—momentary glimpse as it was—of this truth, all systems of religion and philosophy became absolutely puerile. Even the Law (of Thelema) appears no more than a curious incident. I remain absolutely bewildered, blinded, knowing what blasting image lies in this shrine.” (Quoted from Confessions, [p.] 840 by Kaczynski in Perdurabo)


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4503
10/04/2020 6:32 am  
Posted by: @serpent252

do you see any similarity between the above and

 

“The meditation of this afternoon resulted in an initiation so stupendous that I dare not hint at its Word.

Yes there is a similarity. "Nihilistic meaningless which he saw behind everything," is pretty close. These are not the words I would use, but close enough for the reaction someone might have to Atma-loss (Shivatmadarshana).

 


ReplyQuote
djedi
(@djedi)
Member
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 214
10/04/2020 6:41 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

That is the most bat-shit insane thing i have seen in some time, thank you.

I aim to please.

Posted by: @dom

I didn't check it all out it just looked like a wacko new-age site.

No, timecube? Wacko?

Posted by: @serpent252

do you see any similarity

If you were a true nihilist, you wouldn't similarity in anything.

 


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
10/04/2020 8:07 am  

Re remaining OT (ie respectfully, this isn't strictly a trippin'-psychedelics thread) how about Timewave Zero, 64 Hexagrams and the 64 codons?   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_codon_table


ReplyQuote
Serpent 252
(@serpent252)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 166
10/04/2020 6:07 pm  

@jamiejbarter

Mr.Barter, how do you made it? I've seen you have started to use "Like" button. I cannot make it, I just write to one I've liked "I liked your post very mach, thank you."


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
10/04/2020 8:10 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

 

"Skeptic" is not the best of terms for a man who predicted, for many years, that humanity would reach a point of "maximum novelty", and either be fundamentally transformed, or cease to exist, on December 21, 2012. 

 

Yeah it's not like in 2012 a Middle Eastern dictator unleashed a secret army of genetically modified clone-soldiers on the West as he was supported by invading UFO aircrafts from the Andromeda galaxy.

Yes, nothing happened however nobody can deny that novelty did preserve itself over the ages with more intense cumulative bouts until it reached acceleration levels in the 20th century.  That is,if the past three centuries if they were the final 1cm on a 100cm X-Axis of a graph they would have intensified all of the previous novelty in the 99cm prior.   

 

What may it suggest if the 64 codons of genetic information correlate to the 64 Hexagrams?  Maybe it suggests that the 'transcendental force' that made living animals out of dead chemicals left it's calling card within the trigram and octave interplay and tripping-mystics accessed the genetic level intuitively.    The codon   wikipedia chart shows the amino acids with their Trigram bases. 


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
10/04/2020 8:20 pm  
Posted by: @dom

The codon   wikipedia chart shows the amino acids with their Trigram bases. 

No, it doesn't.

While it may be possible to smash the square peg of 64 DNA codons of three things each into the round hole of the I Ching, the four "letters" just can't be transformed into old/young yin and Yang without a lot of work.

The novelty of, and world-changing impact of, indoor plumbing, powered tools, and radio, among many other 19th/early 20th century innovations, each greatly exceed the novelty of anything in the last 20 years.


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
11/04/2020 1:40 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

 

The novelty of, and world-changing impact of, indoor plumbing, powered tools, and radio, among many other 19th/early 20th century innovations, each greatly exceed the novelty of anything in the last 20 years.

  • Detection of Gravitational Waves. Scientists considered this as the greatest discovery of the 21st century. ...
  • Evidence of Water on Mars. ...
  • Robotic Body Parts. ....
  • Advancements in robotics
  • Advancement in HIV Cure. ...
  • Existence of Dark Matter. ...
  • Sequencing Genome of Cancer Patient. ...
  • Creation of Human Organs.
  • Water as fuel
  • Face transplants
  • the advent of autonomous vechiles
  • Teleporting a photon into space using a laser beam
  • Bionic lense prototype allowing blind people to see a word of an image appear 
  • rapid expansion of inter connectivity of the internet
  • MIT scientists can implant fake memories into mice
  • ancient DNA studies
  • 3D movies of our galaxy 
  • endoscopy by capsule
  • CRISPR gene editing
  • electric cars
  • advancements in nanotechnology
  • even further galaxies detected
  • etc    etc 

 

In other words, on the contrary the momentum of novelty accelerated therefore since 2012 A.D. also but you wouldn't have needed McKenna to predict that. 


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
11/04/2020 10:32 am  

Exactly my point- none of those "novelties" are remotely as significant as indoor plumbing, powered tools, and radio.


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
11/04/2020 10:57 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

Exactly my point- none of those "novelties" are remotely as significant as indoor plumbing, powered tools, and radio.

 

They are not Ford's automobile production-line or The Moon Landing in terms of everyday economic/real cultural impact, well not yet anyway.   They are totally unprecedented though which to me sounds like Novelty intensification.

If your drugged-out McKenna-fan friend has Timewave Zero software resources to test historical resonance and mythic realities then please post the link here, if you contact him that is.  Much appreciated, thanks.   This looks like the best online resource;  http://www.fractal-timewave.com/the_ft_sw.php

 

Meanwhile I'm going to see how much of this I get though;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNxSSNEO39U

 

Esalen Institute, 1995 Rupert Sheldrake, Terence McKenna and Ralph Abraham examine chaos, creativity and imagination in nature, life, Gaia, mathematics and more.   McKenna a learned man does a lecture with two academics both of whom seem to respect his ideas.


ReplyQuote
The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 526
11/04/2020 2:58 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Timewave Zero software

I found it:

https://archive.org/details/twz_win_4.3

In the list of files its "twz_win_4.3.zip". The others files are related old programs that you could play around with but I think that one is the actual "Timewave Zero" program.

You'll need a DOS emulator to run it:

https://www.dosbox.com/

 

I got it running so it does appear to work. You can probably figure it out but let me know if you need a hand.


dom liked
ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
11/04/2020 4:05 pm  
Posted by: @duck
Posted by: @dom

Timewave Zero software

I found it:

https://archive.org/details/twz_win_4.3

In the list of files its "twz_win_4.3.zip". The others files are related old programs that you could play around with but I think that one is the actual "Timewave Zero" program.

You'll need a DOS emulator to run it:

https://www.dosbox.com/

 

I got it running so it does appear to work. You can probably figure it out but let me know if you need a hand.

Thanks.  Are you using Windows?  I'm using Windows 10.  I've installed Dosbox and opened that zipfile (which has many sub zipfiles) but how do you then run the Timewave software through Dosbox?  Feel free to pm me the steps needed to take.  


ReplyQuote
The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 526
11/04/2020 4:48 pm  

Yes, Windows 10. I'll post the steps here in case someone else wants them:

 

Easiest way: make a new folder in C:\ and call it "temp"

unzip all the files into "temp"

run Dosbox and type in: mount c: c:\temp

then navigate to it by typing in c:

now you can type dir to see a list of files

or just type twz to run the program

 

As to how to use this Timewave program, I have little idea. 😕 

 

Do we have pm's on this site? I didn't know.


ReplyQuote
The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 526
11/04/2020 4:55 pm  
Posted by: @dom

opened that zipfile (which has many sub zipfiles)

You just want the sub zipfile called "twz_win_4.3.zip" in that case.


ReplyQuote
The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 526
11/04/2020 5:19 pm  

If you don't like typing in all those commands this "Front-end" makes the whole thing a lot easier:

http://dfendreloaded.sourceforge.net/

 

You just add a new profile and tell it where the program is located. You can then just click on it to launch it.


dom liked
ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1409
11/04/2020 7:10 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

TMcK was freaked out by the sudden nihilistic meaningless which he saw behind everything instead of - well, deep meaning everywhere, I suppose.

Jamie, et al., do you see any similarity between the above and

“The meditation of this afternoon resulted in an initiation so stupendous that I dare not hint at its Word. ... I remain absolutely bewildered, blinded, knowing what blasting image lies in this shrine.” 

Posted by: @shiva

Yes there is a similarity. "Nihilistic meaningless which he saw behind everything," is pretty close. These are not the words I would use, but close enough for the reaction someone might have to Atma-loss (Shivatmadarshana).

I agree there is a similarity.  Although this is not the place I'd wish to discuss it any further, there's also a resemblance to an experience I once similarly had myself however I'm not quite sure if Shivatmadarshana is the word I would use either, nevertheless I carry the after-effects with me to this day and the only thing which removed that existential terror (that there was in fact no highest intelligence at the tiller or in the "engine room" of the universe and that pure chance rather than design held sway) was the eventual realisation of "this too shall pass".

Compare with the (not-so-secret any longer) rituals of the O.T.O. where in it is writ that: "... the highest shrines are empty".

Posted by: @serpent252

Mr.Barter, how do you made it? I've seen you have started to use "Like" button. I cannot make it, I just write to one I've liked "I liked your post very mach, thank you."

Thank you very mach, too!  I've been using the "Like" button more or less since it was implemented, although sparingly as an accolade so that all those in receipt of one may consider themselves to be privileged and so feel well & truly chuffed.

Posted by: @dom

Re remaining OT (ie respectfully, this isn't strictly a trippin'-psychedelics thread) how about Timewave Zero, 64 Hexagrams and the 64 codons?   

How about sticking it all in the "Beginning and end" thread you started instead, where it is similarly mentioned?

Posted by: @dom

This led to him to investigate the possibility that whereas the West has found 108 elements to document all matter and energy 

Sorry to possibly disrupt the symmetry/neatness of your number scheme dom, but at last count there were 118 (Oganesson being the last one)

N Joy

 


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2010
11/04/2020 7:28 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

 

How about sticking it all in the "Beginning and end" thread you started instead, where it is similarly mentioned?

That thread/post was about the beginning of AC's magickal career and the highest point of his attainment.  

 

Why are you trying to start arguments?


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2665
11/04/2020 9:13 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

at last count there were 118 (Oganesson being the last one)

In TM's defense, they were only up to 112 at his death. If he wrote whatever david is citing here in the mid '80s, there might have only been 108 elements known.

Still woo-woo, of course.


ReplyQuote
Serpent 252
(@serpent252)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 166
11/04/2020 10:24 pm  

@jamiejbarter

Thank you for your answers on Shivatmadarshana & the "Like" button.

I agree with you, this all deserves its own place, maybe a thread On Shivadarshana where we can write not about the ? ! (i.e., soldiers & hunchbacks.)

Fuck it, if

there was in fact no highest intelligence at the tiller or in the "engine room" of the universe and (...) pure chance rather than design held sway

then we all are really fucked. Or not?

In the moments of the desperation, I can at least say something like

"Illusion or not, I don't care, there is the Other, and I can call him/it even by his/its name. There is/are Jamie Barter, Shiva, Ignant666, Michael Staley, Belmurru, Kidneyhawk, Lutz, Azidonis, Chris Tibrany, Tiger, Duck, Set-Tetu-Ra, Paul Toner, Paul the Chief, &c., &c. &c."

and it can be of some help. Or can it? "I get high with a little help from my friends."

 


ReplyQuote
The HGA of a Duck
(@duck)
Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 526
12/04/2020 12:43 am  
Posted by: @serpent252

I get high with a little help from my friends

"What do yo see when you turn out the light?

I can't tell you, but I know it's mine"


ReplyQuote
frater-r
(@frater-r)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 50
12/04/2020 3:19 am  
Posted by: @serpent252

"Illusion or not, I don't care, there is the Other, and I can call him/it even by his/its name. There is/are Jamie Barter, Shiva, Ignant666, Michael Staley, Belmurru, Kidneyhawk, Lutz, Azidonis, Chris Tibrany, Tiger, Duck, Set-Tetu-Ra, Paul Toner, Paul the Chief, &c., &c. &c."

I like Ken Wilber's approach to this philsophical conundrum:

"We therefore reach a startling conclusion. Since modes of knowing correspond with levels of consciousness, and since reality is a particular mode of knowing, it follows that reality is a level of consciousness. This however, does not mean that the "stuff of reality" is "consciousness stuff", or that material objects are really made of consciousness,  or that consciousness is some nebulous, undifferentiated goo. It means only - and here we must temporarily lapse back into dualistic language - that reality is what is revealed from the non-dual level of consciousness that we have termed Mind. That it is revealed is a matter of experimental fact; what is revealed, however, cannot be accurately described without reverting to a symbolic mode of knowing. Thus do we maintain that reality is not ideal, it is not material, it is not spiritual, it is not concrete, it is not mechanistic, it is not vitalistic - reality is a level of consciousness and this alone is Real.

By stating that the level of Mind or simply Mind, alone is absolute Reality, this emphatically is not the philosophical doctrine of subjective idealism, although it may be superficially so interpreted. For subjective idealism is the view that the universe can be accounted for soley as the contents of consciousness, that the subject (or the ideal) alone is real while all obects are fundamentally ephiphenomena. This ,however, is just a subtle form of the front vs. back game, a side-stepping of the problem of dualism by proclaiming one half of the dualism unreal, in this case, all objects. Furthermore, when we say Mind is Reality, this is not so much a logical conclusion as it is a certain experience - as we pointed out, "reality" is what is understood and felt from the non-dual and non-symbolic level of Mind. Although a type of philosophy usually hangs itself onto this fundamental experience, the experience is not at all a philosophy - it is rather the suspension of all philosophy; it is not one view among many, but the absence of all views whatsoever. It is what the Hindu calls "Nirvikalpa Samadhi", "imageless awarness", or the Tibetan Buddhist termshzin-dan-bral-pahi sems - "mind freed from all concepts," or the Ch'an Buddhist names wu-nien - the mind in a state of "no-thought". 


ReplyQuote
frater-r
(@frater-r)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 50
12/04/2020 3:44 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

So my mind is open, but inclined to the TM = nut theory unless persuaded otherwise.

Nuts is a relative concept. I'm quite certain that Terrance thought that "normal people" were "nuts."


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4503
12/04/2020 6:03 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Sorry to possibly disrupt the symmetry/neatness of your number scheme dom, but at last count there were 118 (Oganesson being the last one)

Aren't all those "high-grade" elements Man-made? That is, not in the "natural" "god-made" list of elements? I'm not sure about ALL of them, though. Call a Qabalist Scientist!

Posted by: @serpent252

then we all are really fucked. Or not?

Both. Who's going to start that thread? "Shivatmadarshana and the Realm of Pralaya?"

Posted by: @serpent252

there is the Other

There is no "other." You, and you alone, are responsible for this whole mess.

Posted by: @frater-r

the Hindu calls "Nirvikalpa Samadhi", "imageless awarness", or the Tibetan Buddhist termshzin-dan-bral-pahi sems - "mind freed from all concepts," or the Ch'an Buddhist names wu-nien - the mind in a state of "no-thought". 

Yeah, that's the one.

 


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 2
Share: