I haven't read your links, but I'm curious what people think about Crowley putting Neoplatonist hierarchies (in the plural, yet) into a banishing ritual. Doesn't it seem just a little bit odd? What do you think the effects are/will be?

As to the question of why Crowley used those names, I think the obvious answer is that he was writing a "Greek"/pagan/Thelemic version of the LBRP and wanted entities/names that fit with that "flavor" more fully than Hebrew archangels.

In the ritual itself, they perform an identical function to the archangels in the LBRP, which is to "guard" that area of the circle after it has been banished. The big difference, however, is that the Chaldean beings do not appear to be elemental in nature (as evidenced by the fact that in the two primary versions of the Star Ruby, the names at the quarters -- and presumably the elemental attributions of the quarters -- change but the positions of the guardians remain the same). Whereas the LBRP features the magician breaking down the elements and building them back up again through the invocations, the Star Ruby is going for something....different.

So what do these entities represent, then? Answers vary on that one. I like the suggestion that they represent Sulphur, Mercury, Salt, and the HGA (in the order in which they are invoked). After banishing the elements and (symbolically) crossing the abyss in the ritual, the magician affirms those pieces of the True Self that persists below the abyss. That's one way of looking at it anyway.

As far as imagining these entities, I typically see them each as "one" being, but it also works to imagine them more as abstract, collective forces (perhaps coalescing into a single being in the "foreground"). This is where individual experimentation comes in handy: just try out the ritual and see what sort of mental image you "get" based on the sound of the name and the excitement of the moment.

What's wrong with that? Any language will do. Any hierarchy will suffice.

Doesn't it seem just a little bit odd?

Not at all.

What do you think the effects are/will be?

The effects are ("were" - when I used them) just about the same as the Hebrew version. I eventually adapted Star Ruby to an Aegyptian version. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W65MR99Pe-A

You can also see it performed by a human being at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGU-_cfHNXU
(starting at 1:18)

Most of us don't "think" about what the results will be. We try to just "do" it, and then we "know" what will happen.

Why are you asking these silly questions? Why don't you just "do" it (or "read" what's recommended before commenting)? Then you will "know."

I do perform it, I first performed it about 20 years ago. I was just curious what other people thought. I still don't have a good reason why he chose them over anything else.

Hi,
Ritual has many challenges. Perhaps like theatre it helps to rehearse, rehearse, rehearse. Yet it has great demands for us nevertheless. Solid visualisation, vocalization, choreography, tools, stage setup etc.
Of course one hopes the audience is receptive and not vampiric of both your energy and hard preparations.
I don't know if it is a widespread notion, so forgive me. ;).. Can one be entirely confident that it is commonly possible for humans to order around non human entities with success?
If They are co-operative, then of what sort are they to be so obliging.
Ah well...on another tack.. Trusting ones intuition and appealing to inner Truth in all one's work is to be recommended. The Sovereign Will of the aspirant was made after all at a formal coronation. Not in my case or I'm sure I would have noticed. 

“And that told him!”

I love these snappy and oh-so-understated casual flicks of the fly swatter to such devastating effect which you employ, Wanderer-Exile (may I call you wand for short?)  I cannot wait for your “hat trick”!

Other than that, I’m in agreement with Shiva’s observations:

To turn to you, Sothoth,

Surely it is not possible for anyone to be “entirely” confident about anything.

I am myself reasonably confident that Los would regard these “non human entities” as part of one’s self-mind, rather than any sort of extra- or ultra-terrestrial beings in their own right!  Why would they not be obliging, though, if the ritual is carried out rightly “ever unto me” (i.e., Nuit, and therefore automatically in accordance with T.W.)?

Meanwhile, I might add the following on the broad subject of the LBRP (which I believe historically originated with the G.’. D.’.?)

Addressing the Pentagram in Chaos Magic Theory, in terms of Carroll’s subjective assessment

The persistency of the increasingly inappropriate lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram and imitative variants of it in other traditions is evidence of a continuing requirement for a ritual of this type.”

Liber Kaos, p.181[/align:1ohiln52]

“So here’s one I made earlier!” His so-called “Gnostic Banishing Ritual” given in Appendix 3 to Liber Kaos, is presumably the very “ritual of this type” for which there is apparently such a demand.  In it,

“Pentagrams are drawn in the air at four points around the operator.  The pentagrams are drawn and an anti-clockwise quarter turn of the whole body is executed after each pentagram [etc]”

Liber Kaos, p.182[/align:1ohiln52]

We are also informed that the “traditional five-pointed star can be used” for banishing purposes on page 20 of Liber Null – how very considerate of him!  But the question of why pentagrams should be seen as important at all in chaos magic is not answered.  Although it stands as an attempt at a revised version of the L.B.R of the Pentagram which is widely used through western ceremonial magick, it does come without the (one would have thought essential) horizontal bit of the Qabalistic Cross, and as such surely stands as a botched attempt at neoclassicism, rather than anything startlingly new or “chaotic”.

It is farfetched to claim an affinity or connection with Gnosticism, or even Shamanism, simply because these words carry a veneer or gloss of occult respectability or quality with them, such as “Rolls Royce” or “Faberge”.  Chaos is Chaos, and that is that.  Just putting “Gnostic” in front of what chaoists might call a “Banishing Ritual” does not a piece of Gnosticism make, nor does it disguise the fact that as a technical piece of magick it remains unbalanced and fundamentally flawed.

“Ah tay mal koot vay geboorra vay gedoola lay oll arm” [The Betty May-ish version],
Norma N. Joy Conquest

I sense an agent provacateur, who is attempting to stir up controversy, adversity and discontent.

Golly gosh!  I could say exactly the same thing about this particular posting – except I shan’t...

Wouldn’t it be better with a “fee fi fo fum” in there somewhere, though, Shiva?! ;D
N Joy

Hi,
Thorough analysis again Jamie,
Thanks for considering my notions,
I have a dim view of schism and internacine quarreling...
Though I must stress honestly, that I am not labelling or judging anyone whose posts I have read. Nor implying such between the lines.
I admire anyone who steps forward bravely onto the frontier of the Great Beyond. Further I do consider that in such an environment, the practitioner is as such just another form of life. I am not certain that being Man, Woman, Adeptus, or Magister has the slightest impact on the proceedings.
Perhaps....its similar to dancing into a ghetto in a major city at night and shouting look at me at the top of ones voice.
Perhaps again... Authority to command in Ritual is earned or bestowed over time..So let me emphasisesough consistent work

Oops,
Last line ought to have said... Once again I can emphasise, practise, practise, practise and commit to thorough consistent work and study. 🙂

Surely, you could say anything you want ... but it's not exactly the same thing.

Yes Shiva,
Brief and accurate 😉

Yes, “brief and accurate” as far as it goes – but relating to what, exactly?  I was just reiterating and reflecting back (the possible transference of?) the contents of your own post here, S.  Sorry, but I don’t get the point of this one… am I just being slow on the uptake & if so perhaps someone would kindly indicate the truth of the message?

Grinding bones?
N-Joy

I am still in the process of constructing final personal versions of the pentagram and hexagram rituals. It requires a symbol set that reinforces the intent of the individual. Each aspect should have a clear definition and one should know how this relates to the ultimate purpose for the ritual. I use the Gnostic names, as I do not want to invoke Judeo Christian entities (subjective or not). The problem is when a culture of millions of people spend thousands of years thinking words mean a certain thing, then you use those words to protect you, then you try to live a lifestyle and create works and spread ideas that are antithetical to the culture that has been using those words (Michael, Uriel, etc), you create a conflict. What is being discussed here is a very fundamental question, that is "why do these rituals have an effect?" The Golden Dawn symbolism is based on the concept that Europeans are raised to go to church believing in Angels, Saints, Prophets like Moses, etc, and it is assumed that a GD initiate would "Align" him / herself with that tradition. I on the other hand grew up on horror movies and Slayer tapes, first of all, so is the GD symbolism as relevant for me? Their answer would be Yes because of 1. their concept of deities as "thought forms," and 2. their idea of "racial Memory" that is , my ancestors were Christian therefore Judeo-Christian imagery and symbols resonate with me. I disagree with them on both points, just because too many contradictions to both those theories can be found. They also felt that westerners could not practice eastern Yoga, total nonsense; they just didnt understand it in 1900. Anyway, If one says that "any heirarchy will do" then that is like saying that one can just use comic book characters to the same effect as any deity name, or that any symbol can stand for any element or planet, or that a planet can have any characteristic. Perhaps it can, but one would have to constuct a complete system from the ground up...if one can do this, why study an existing system, except as a blank template? Unless there are inherent effects in ancient symbols and processes...the key is finding out which are the objective, unchanging principles, and which can be altered to suit any context. The pentagram itself was used by Pythagoras because it represented a certain geometric perfection, being composed of Golden Sections, relating to proportions in the human body, etc. Pentagonal symmetry is exclusively in living organisms; its a symbol of cosmic intelligence (I would not see any "decreasing relevance" in this). The question becomes "what is entirely subjective and what isnt?"

Your ideas are very thought provoking Sumerian. Thanks, I will go through it in my little old mind 😉
Keep up the work and study, champ.

Thanks i definitely will. I actually have way more questions than answers at this point, at least regarding what may be considered the "Western Magical Tradition." Eastern systems are pretty much out in the open at this point, each one fully elucidated and fairly consistent within themselves. The same cannot be said of Western counterparts, unfortunately.

Absolutely!

I do not want to invoke Judeo Christian entities (subjective or not).

Right!  I agree. But others may not agree, and that's okay.

If one says that "any heirarchy will do" then that is like saying that one can just use comic book characters to the same effect as any deity name, or that any symbol can stand for any element or planet, or that a planet can have any characteristic. Perhaps it can, but one would have to constuct a complete system from the ground up...if one can do this, why study an existing system, except as a blank template?

Yes. One would have to constuct a complete system from the ground up. Usually folks study some existing system. Then, if they're smart, they will study another system, and correlate the two. Then a third, fourth, etc, system can be studied. I distrust anyone's thinking who has studied just one system. After a person has correlated, say, three systems, their thinking is much more rounded and they are likely to be less bigoted. The "comic book" example might be an extreme but, yes, the time eventually dawns when one really looks close and then they design their own system.

For example, various forum threads have discussed how AC really didn't come up with anything new, but he certainly can be seen to have put "old wine in new bottles." And while he was at it, he said, "Everyone must create their own Qabalah."

You may care to check out the hypothesis of morphic resonance as popularised by Rupert Sheldrake, if you're not familiar, Sumerian.  In short, Wiki summarises:

…[Sheldrake] is an English author, lecturer and parapsychologist.  He was formerly a biochemist and plant physiologist at the University of Cambridge and elsewhere.  Since 1981, his writings have largely been centred on his hypothesis of "morphic resonance", which posits that "memory is inherent in nature" and that "natural systems, such as termite colonies, or pigeons, or orchid plants, or insulin molecules, inherit a collective memory from all previous things of their kind."  He argues that morphic resonance is also responsible for paranormal interconnectedness between organisms.  As such, his work advocating the hypothesis encompasses subjects such as animal and plant development and behaviour as well as various parapsychological claims involving memory, telepathy, perception and cognition.

Sheldrake also argues that modern science has become a series of dogmas than an open-minded approach to investigating phenomena.  For example Sheldrake questions such principles as conservation of energy and suggests that a perpetual motion device may be possible […]  Scientist who have specifically examined Sheldrake's morphic resonance hypothesis have rejected it as pseudoscience and magical thinking, citing a lack of evidence supporting the hypothesis and the inconsistency of the hypothesis with established scientific theories. ...

Such morphic resonance would be the reason why, for example, the specifically Hebrew version of the LBRP would have more power than one which one had just invented oneself, as you previously mentioned:

Regards,
N Joy

I definitely think using the Hebrew names would have power, I just also feel that inconsistancies in ones logic or purpose can result in either a dispersion of power or a powerful backfire. Michael, Gabriel, etc have consistently been portrayed and viewed by millions as protectors of Judeo-Christian dogmas and mindstates, one of which is an unapologetic intolerance for anything resembling polytheism. Its complicated however, in that perhaps judeo-christianity used pre-existing entities and are representing dogmas that have no relation to the will of the "angels." I get the impression that the Western Magical Tradition considers the Qabala as originating with the Egyptians and Chaldeans, and is ultimately founded in an "Atlantean" tradition? I would like to do more research on this but dont really know a good place to start. Dion Fortune talks about that sort of thing but where did she get the ideas from? The "Secret Doctrine?" Or something more tangible?

Thanks for the info on Sheldrake, i will look him up at some point. It seems hes describing what Levi would call the Astral Light, what some call the Akashic Record (these concepts may not correlate perfectly).

Yes, in general, the Western Magical Tradition considers the Qabala as originating with the Egyptians and (maybe?) the Chaldeans. However, there is strong evidence that the whole Tarot/Tree of Life business came into play after the European Middle Ages. Unfortunately, I cannot remember where this "strong evidence" is to be found, or who posted it, but it was very scientific and historical. Does anyone else remember the source?

The QBL concept, based upon each letter having a numeric value seems to be much older.

As far as Atlantean origins ... well, that's simply in the realm of myth and legend and hopeful thinking. There doesn't seem to be any scientific/historical evidence of anything leading back to Atlantis. Oh, there's those underwater blocks and such, but any references to the lost continent seem to be chanelled or imaginative - including accounts by Fortune or Blavatsky.

[/align:rqg4utij]

Oh, wait! There's this wikimedia map ... surely this is undisputed proof?

[/align:rqg4utij]

Not necessarily. It's very possible to appropriate someone else's symbols, use them for your own purposes, and do something completely contrary to what the people who created the symbols originally intended.

Look at Crowley's appropriation of Satan as a clear example of taking someone else's symbol and using it for his own particular purposes. Look at those tables in 777, which reduce the gods of the world to orderly little lists. No one is necessarily bound by the original intention of symbols, though I certainly can understand the idea of feeling distaste toward some symbols and ideas.

If one says that "any heirarchy will do" then that is like saying that one can just use comic book characters to the same effect as any deity name, or that any symbol can stand for any element or planet, or that a planet can have any characteristic. Perhaps it can, but one would have to constuct a complete system from the ground up...if one can do this, why study an existing system, except as a blank template?

So to answer the question, yes, any symbol can mean anything to each particular individual. Every magician has to construct his or her own Qabalah, but as you suggest, it's easier to just adopt most of the traditional correspondences (magick, remember, is a language created for convenience...there's no absolute truth in any of these symbols).

And yes, you can use comic book characters or literary characters in your rituals. For a while, I had a draft going of some rituals that used characters from Blake's poetry and from Joyce's Finnegans Wake. Use whatever gets your engine going.

Unless there are inherent effects in ancient symbols and processes...the key is finding out which are the objective, unchanging principles, and which can be altered to suit any context.

Again, you can use virtually any symbol, but it's just easier to use the ones that others have worked out already...at least to begin with.

The guy's a kook, by the way.

Although I understand why you might assert this, Los, it's not a reasonable summary of Sheldrake. His The Science Delusion is well worth a read, for example. As the London Review indicated: 'Perhaps Sheldrake takes his arguments too far at times. While sceptics will undoubtedly dismiss his conclusions, he adduces empirical evidence that is nonetheless worthy of open-minded analysis. This open-mindedness to new, even shocking, discoveries is an important prerequisite for all intellectual enquiry.'

I'm impressed by many of your posts, Los, but you do need to avoid the habit of dismissing out-of-hand those with whom you disagree.

I definitely believe in what Sheldrake is calling "morphic resonance," a good example of a modern scientist theorizing about something taken for granted in esoteric doctrines...the question is, can it be studied in a systematic way and applied? When an action takes place is a record of it written in stone on the astral, or on shifting sands? The complexity of human minds shaping elemental forces throughout history is a maze of invisible data.

note in the Star Ruby, we are instructed to draw deep our breath before we forcefully "fire off" the pentagram into space at each quarter.  Well if anyone holds their breath after intaking a lot of oxygen and forcefully releases well, this will cause us to feel a temporary high or tension release.  Do it four times and hey even better.  My view is that's the whole point of this strange ritual.  For example you may feel "psychic attack" (i.e. read as "low self esteem day") and this rite will "boost" you but holding one's breath and waiting and forceful release without doing this rite, will have exactly the same effect.  The Greek exhortations and all the other weirdness is irrelevant, but hey,if you want to pretend you are a big, dangerous  "Thelemic Wizard"  feel free.   

Over the decades I must have read twenty or more records of people who had been practising the Star Ruby on a daily basis, and thus had developed a familiarity with this ritual. Not one of them seemed to believe that they were a "big, dangerous 'Thelemic Wizard'"; but hey, if you want to impute otherwise on the basis of what I suspect is diddly-squat, feel free.

It can be studied scientifically. Functional Magnetic Resonance imaging, fMRI, could actually display the functioning aspects of the brain, during the recitation of the rituals.

I thought the links in the OP on those two rituals were brilliant in analysing what the Star Ruby and the LRBP are really about.  Unfortunately not much proper discussion on the matter in this thread.  I think the crux of the matter is AC's assertion that anyone who thinks that these rites are about ghostbusting a room or "cleansing an aura" etc are not worthy to use them.  They are a basic symbolic language of what the GW is and naturally the Star Ruby is  a "new aeon" update of the LRBP.   

I'm sure that anyone using something like the LBRP on a daily basis soon gets to realise that rituals such as these have nothing whatever to do with "ghostbusting a room". In fact, across many decades of reading magical records, and writing to, working and conversing with fellow practitioners, I've never come across anybody who think that these rituals have anything to do with "ghostbusting".

Um ... er ... agh ... When we were up in Estes Park in 1984 for the first Flashdance ceremony, one of our members worked at a place that had strange phenomena. People saw etheric shapes and electric lights would go on and off (or flicker) along with the shapes. The whole town knew about the "ghost(s)" and it had been going on for a long time, and it was, more or less, an accepted fact that was of a joking nature (because nobody every got scared to death or otherwise molested).

So, in our preparations, we did a banishing in a room, then extended the circle and pentagrams to a hundred feet radius, then set a third circle around the whole valley. From that night on, there was nary a shape nor a flicker again.

We didn't do this as a "ghostbuster," but rather as a nightly preliminary cleansing for a major ceremony ... but the results still busted the ghost.

Additionally ...

"ONE day, in the latter months of 1967, news was received that a certain three-story mansion was for sale at 2627 South Menlo Avenue, about two blocks away from the 30th Street headquarters.
Capricornus had her hands full with apartments, a service station and a bookstore, and she simply was not interested. Sol, however, went to take a look. He liked it. So the entire membership went over to check it out. Everyone liked it. It cost $36,000. Buy!
Now this new mansion happened to be inhabited by a bevy of prostitutes and drug dealers and they were all black - both in their skin color and in their mood. Clearly they were not at all amused by having a bunch of “whitey kids“ tell them that they had to move. In fact, most of them showed no intention of budging as much as an inch.
When the day of possession came, a group of seven members went to the house, walked through the unlocked front door, and marched up to the third floor - a vast open area destined to become the new Temple. Walking up the polished wood staircase, we “intruders“ were met with glares and mean snarls, but we continued in a detached manner as if no other people were present.
After locking ourselves inside the third floor, I started The Banishing Ritual. During this brief ceremony, arguments, shrieks and cries came drifting up from the downstairs area.
Immediately after the ceremony, the house was empty - completely deserted by the previous tenants and nothing was ever heard from them again. This is an interesting example of Practical Magick."

- Inside Solar Lodge - Outside the Law (c)2007[/align:1uh26l3i]

Again, this was not a "ghostbusting" nor was it even directed at the "tenants." It simply just had it's effect. Assuredly, the Pentagram rituals are part of the foundation of The Great Work, but if one is troubled by phantasms, well, it'll do the job!

I would point anyone at Gershom Scholem, who shows that Cabala as a whole is around 1000 years old, with the ToL dating from around 1200s or later. He published English translations of such early works as the Book Bahir as well. As for the connection with the Tarot, any decent history should show that the connection began in the 17th century at the earliest, before then there could be fewer or more than 22 major arcana.

Of course it's more complicated than that, as Scholem would be the first to point out. "Kabbalah" is just a term that became synonymous with Jewish mysticism and magic, both of which have far more ancient roots. If we unravel the intertwined threads of Jewish mysticism and magic, and distinguish them from those of the Sefer Yetzirah and the Provençal and Catalan medieval Zoharic tradition, or Kabbalism proper, then we can trace both back clearly to the Graeco-Roman period. The Sefer Yezirah itself is a text of late aniquity (3rd to 6th century), not the middle ages (although of course it has a multilayered texual transmission history, including medieval versions, as well). The SY is the ultimate root of "orthodox" Kabbala, in its theoretical guise, while the Merkabah (Chariot) and Hekhalot (Thrones) texts, also late antquity, show the theurgic origins.

The "Tree of Life" diagram has several variations, as everybody knows, the earliest - if I remember correctly - from the 12th century, so only about 900 years old at most. It evolves, especially in the assignation of the "paths" of letters between the emanations. The Golden Dawn used that illustrated by Athanasius Kircher in the 17th century, which became dogmatic in this tradition.

"Kabbalah" is the preferred spelling for the Jewish tradition proper, while "Cabala", a Latinized spelling, can be profitably used to indicate the Christian version, stemming from the 15th century (Marsilio Ficino and Giovanni Pico della Mirandola). "Qabalah" indicates the specific GD branch of the latter tradition.

For Tarot's association with Hebrew letters, this begins precisely in 1781, with Antoine Court de Gébelin and the Comte de Mellet; they assigned Aleph to the World, and counted downwards (Tav = Fool). Jean-Baptiste Alliette (Etteilla) peppered his writings with "Cabalistic" references, but they don't amount to a Cabalistic (much less Kabbalistic) system. These innovations were ignored - these guys didn't start any "tradition" per se (except for Tarot cartomancy) - and it was not until Alphonse Constant (Eliphas Levi) that a new Hebrew letter-Tarot association was invented (counting, for the most part, up instead of down), along with a more systematic Cabalistic integration.

To the point of "fewer or more than 22 major arcana", there were only two kinds of Tarot games in the 17th century: Tarot/Tarocchi itself, with 22 trump cards, and Minchiate (earlier known as "Germini"), also an Italian invention, with 41 trump cards. Tarocchi is about 100 years older than the Minchiate game based on it, invented in the 1430s. In either case, there is no relationship with the Hebrew alphabet, let alone Jewish Kabbalah or Christian Cabala.

So all of this, for our purposes, really dates from the 19th century. It is around 150 years old.

Like I said anyone who thinks LRBP is about ghostbusting and/or "auric cleansing" and the like are not worthy to possess it. 

What a judgemental judicious judge you are. I worry about your age, maturity, psychological state, and medicinal intake - not to omit your egophilia. If one has a shovel, one can dig a hole - but one can also pound a tent peg into the ground. If one has a ritu to clear the mind, one can also clear the astral plane of irritating entities - there is no difference.

Moral pronouncements about who is "worthy" will get you know where. Kee-rist and the Seven Dwarfs!  It's like choosing who gets "chosen" (to be against the people and other delights.

yeah yeah yeah  you just "worry" about thyself.  Re your non- ghostbusting but really it was a ghostbusting story;  "It simply just had it's effect."??  Rule number one: metaphysical causality has no evidence therefore we should not attribute any philosophic validity to it.

Why does it not surprise me that you are stuck on that Sabrina the witch, teenage- level understanding of magick whereby we "make things happen"  and "hey we're special" `therefore?.   

Outtahere

What's this "we"? It may be a "rule" so far as you're concerned, but not me. The absence of "philosophic validity" isn't something that keeps me awake at night.

I think that you managed to strike a central nerve there, Shiva, by the tone of the response.

Can we look forward to the possibility that the "Outtahere" is a sincere promise ?

I think Shiva seems to be sensitive on all levels.  This is a good trait not bad.  Shiva, I intuit is a perceptive, amazing person.  Glad to be on the forum with a fine person such as that 🙂