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The following is a quote from LIBER L L L L II

OF LOVE it is written that “Love is the law, love under will.” Herein is an Arcanum concealed, for in the Greek Language Agaph, Love, is of the same numerical value as Velhma, Will. By this we understand that the Universal Will is of the nature of Love.

Now Love is the enkindling in ecstacy of Two that will to become One. It is thus an Universal formula of High Magick. For see now how all things, being in sorrow caused by dividuality, must of necessity will Oneness as their medicine.

Here also is Nature monitor to them that seek Wisdom at her breast: for in the uniting of elements of opposite polarities is there a glory of heat, of light, and of electricity.

Thus in human love also we see that mediocrities among men mate with null women: but History teacheth us that the supreme masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines, overstepping even the limiting laws of sex and species in their necessity to transcend normality. It is not enough in such natures to excite lust or passion: the imagination itself must be enflamed by every means.

I understand that these are small sections of a larger chapter but to be blunt the chapter on Love is about meditation and dryness ie dry spells which appear to hinder "the GW" and used with an analogy of human love, attractiveness and sex.  As a potential trainee zen Buddhist monk I understand the general gist of this chapter but this idea about medicore men are attracted to "null women" I don't get it.  Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue.  Null as defined adjective 1. without value, effect, consequence, or significance.  2. being or amounting to nothing; nil; lacking; nonexistent.   Is AC saying here that men whose "joys are weak" are suckers for any woman who gets their nephesh excited but ultimately this is worthless?  For him as a lecherous guy to state this this seems to be sheer hypocrisy.

Secondly we have the masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines,  I don't know if this is some sort of joke here.  Does he mean concubines/women who are morally and spiritually vile or physically vile?  He himself seemed to be attracted to women who were not that physically vile so is this more hypocricy on his part or did he secretly seek out ugly looking hookers as a spiritual exercise?  In his diaries he described how he once had difficulty having sex due to the hooker being ugly.  Then it gets even more weird with overstepping even the limiting laws of sex and species in their necessity to transcend normality  Am I reading this correctly here but this seems to be advocating sex with members of other species?  I'll pass on this one if it's the case. 

Thanks.


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The instructors of The Gnostic church teaches that it's impossible to raise kundalini without a spouse - it's simply impossible to generate enough energy without, they claim.


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belmurru
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"david" wrote:
Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue. ...  Am I reading this correctly here but this seems to be advocating sex with members of other species?  I'll pass on this one if it's the case. 

It seems to be a reading comprehension issue.

He is describing, not prescribing. That is, he is presenting what he thinks "history teacheth us" about the natures of "the supreme masters of the world." He is not saying "do this". History is a safe place for such supreme rulers of the world, much better than prison.

You are free to interpret it as giving you advice on a key to the mastery of the world, however, if you intend on being considered, in the eyes of history, one of supreme masters of the world like Semiramis, Alexander the Great, Caligula, Nero, Rodriqo Borgia, Catherine the Great, etc., to say nothing of gods like Zeus and Pan.

Or, you can take it with a grain of salt, like most of us mediocrities do.

 


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"Kharlatan" wrote:
The instructors of The Gnostic church teaches that it's impossible to raise kundalini without a spouse - it's simply impossible to generate enough energy without, they claim.

No disrespect but are we on the same thread here?  What?


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 Anonymous
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"the masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines"

This probably refers to the gnostic transmutation process of the raw sexuality (Sexual alchemy).


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Nietzsche's white lion might be one of these vile creatures (the great id) mentioned. The Gnostic church encourages people to stay off the wagon, insisting on strict self control. Yet, at one point along the path, they  test themselves, to overide and control impulses and seeks out "dangerous" places. Crowley went so far as utilizing razor blades in the search for self mastery. There's also theories among the gnostics regarding the relationship between sexuality/virility (the fuel) and spiritual potential (Refer to Weor's study of one of the greatest beasts; Rasputin).


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"Kharlatan" wrote:
"the masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines"

This probably refers to the gnostic transmutation process of the raw sexuality (Sexual alchemy).

Yes it would make more sense that this is some sort of hidden alchemical symbolism.


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Anonymous
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"Kharlatan" wrote:
Nietzsche's white lion might be one of these vile creatures (the great id) mentioned. The Gnostic church encourages people to stay off the wagon, insisting on strict self control. Yet, at one point along the path, they  test themselves, to overide and control impulses and seeks out "dangerous" places. Crowley went so far as utilizing razor blades in the search for self mastery. There's also theories among the gnostics regarding the relationship between sexuality/virility (the fuel) and spiritual potential (Refer to Weor's study of one of the greatest beasts; Rasputin).

Thanks for your input but  I think that you're missing my main point.  On a mundane level  it reads that mastery involves seeking vile and horrible creature for concubines not abstaining and then testing as you say. To elaborate, ideally no one in their right mind would seek vile and horrible creature for concubines would they?  If they were testing themselves to see whether or not they could stomach making love to a vile and horrible creature then that sounds plausible as e.g. Shaolin monks do all sorts of things that would freak out the average person.  OTOH I understand that Rasputin went after attractive ladies.  Hope that's clear.


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In my view one need to hold on to two thoughts at once here. The raw sexuality is a horrible creature in gnosticism - it's beastly. Concubine is on a mundane level a woman that spawns children. I would not interpret it as a woman which spawns children in this context. The woman is however a sexual creature which together with man transcends duality and achieves unity (exchanges engergies), and in gnosticism the goal isn't spawning children but spiritual fruits. Crowley was a beast and managed to use this beastlyness esoterically by transforming himself into a living torch.


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Correction: Crowley was a beast and managed to use this beastliness TO transform himself into a living torch


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herupakraath
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"david" wrote:
o gets their nephesh excited but ultimately this is worthless?  For him as a lecherous guy to state this this seems to be sheer hypocrisy.

Secondly we have the masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines,  I don't know if this is some sort of joke here. 

Not in the least. Crowley ran an ad while living in London seeking physically deformed sex partners; he states that it was an exercise in discipline, to try and force himself to see beauty in all persons regardless of their physical appearance.


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"herupakraath" wrote:
"david" wrote:
o gets their nephesh excited but ultimately this is worthless?  For him as a lecherous guy to state this this seems to be sheer hypocrisy.

Secondly we have the masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines,  I don't know if this is some sort of joke here. 

Not in the least. Crowley ran an ad while living in London seeking physically deformed sex partners; he states that it was an exercise in discipline, to try and force himself to see beauty in all persons regardless of their physical appearance.

That's brilliant thanks! I was right after all and Crowley did put his money where his mouth was.  You just nailed it.  Exactly what I was looking for but what is your source just out of interest? 


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Spare also used the same "formula" to transcend "normality" in Zos speaks!. I recently read an article about porno surfers and their habit of seeking out new "perversities" and fetishes with the purpose of reaching new and higher peaks of ecstasy. It's kind of strange that he, Crowley, looked at it as an exercise of discipline in the light of Spare's formula. Although tolerance or indifference, if you like, was a part of his formula, it seems for me that the free channeling of life force (transmutation) was the essential part of Spare's formula. "Normal", everyday consciousness whould be an obstacle, the nullified trance state on the other hand wouldn't.


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... and I think one must have in mind that it actually was an ad. I don't think it was in Crowley's interest elaborating such a formula in an ad, and what an advertisement, he wanted to see something beautiful in something defect - so noble. Comical.


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herupakraath
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"david" wrote:
That's brilliant thanks! I was right after all and Crowley did put his money where his mouth was.  You just nailed it.  Exactly what I was looking for but what is your source just out of interest? 

Probably The Confessions.


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William Thirteen
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It was while living in Greenwich Village that Crowley took up paint and paintbrush in an attempt to become an artist. He put an advertisement in the local paper which said 'WANTED—Dwarfs, hunchbacks, Tattooed Women, Fisher Girls, Freaks of all Sorts, Coloured Women, only if exceptionally ugly or deformed, to pose for artist. Apply by letter with a photograph.' A reporter for a local paper who visited his studio reported that Crowley told him, "I had never studied art and had never drawn or painted a picture in my life. When I tried to draw I became so interested in the work that I gave up the editorship of the magazine and went in for art. What you see around you is the result. What sort of an artist am I? Oh, I don't know just what to call myself. I'd say, off-hand, that I was an old master."

http://www.cornelius93.com/Epistle-BeastlyLifeofAleisterCrowley.html


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William Thirteen
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while on the subject - has this advertisement ever been found?


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OF LOVE it is written that “Love is the law, love under will.” Herein is an Arcanum concealed, for in the Greek Language Agaph, Love, is of the same numerical value as Velhma, Will. By this we understand that the Universal Will is of the nature of Love.
Simple really. The book of the law says
“ For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union. This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all”
It can be the only logical conclusions that anyone who believes in a universal creator adheres to.
Why else would the perfect enter into imperfection, except to experience that imperfection and implant in that imperfect creation the potential for perfection.  Isn’t there some Gnostic text that  says something like the one was alone and was sad, so created 2.

Now Love is the enkindling in ecstacy of Two that will to become One. It is thus an Universal formula of High Magick. For see now how all things, being in sorrow caused by dividuality, must of necessity will Oneness as their medicine.

So sex is good on all levels. Even the most degraded mind in a certain moment of the act stops being a self cantered egotistical Pratt.
All things seek to return.

Here also is Nature monitor to them that seek Wisdom at her breast: for in the uniting of elements of opposite polarities is there a glory of heat, of light, and of electricity.

Crowley begins to drift here into personal wish fulfilment and fantasy.
He has read, or possibly encountered some place, the ideas expressed in the Aghori cults. This is very close to his heart. Alostralel to him seems to have always been some exercise in  love for the abhorrent.
Things. Spare walks this way too with the old witch. Is eating shit the only real way back to the one.

Thus in human love also we see that mediocrities among men mate with null women: but History teacheth us that the supreme masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines, overstepping even the limiting laws of sex and species in their necessity to transcend normality. It is not enough in such natures to excite lust or passion: the imagination itself must be enflamed by every means.
This is really about Crowley’s search for the “Scarlet Woman”. And what a fantastic vison she is. All his life he was looking for this supreme creature. A Great Beast riding whore, "The Whore of te Stars"  who really only exists in the minds of men.


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the_real_simon_iff
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93, William!

"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
while on the subject - has this advertisement ever been found?

Well, I have been looking for it all over the usual places, so far with no success. What I never understood is the inclusion of the Harrison Fisher Girls, since these should have been exceptionally nice girls (by "public standards"), so it might be just a "joke" to be included in the Confessions. No biography (afaik) gives a source for this ad except the Confessions...

Love=Law
Lutz


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jamie barter
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"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
93, William!

"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
while on the subject - has this advertisement ever been found?

Well, I have been looking for it all over the usual places, so far with no success. What I never understood is the inclusion of the Harrison Fisher Girls, since these should have been exceptionally nice girls (by "public standards"), so it might be just a "joke" to be included in the Confessions. No biography (afaik) gives a source for this ad except the Confessions...

Love=Law
Lutz

I’m fairly sure that I recall reading about the contents of the advertisement in a fairly sympathetic (at least, as opposed to the reverse!) newspaper interview A.C. gave, in the course of which he was asked a couple of questions about it (including the Harrison Fisher girls and the 'divinity' of the more "horrible creatures" - possibly 'representatives' may have been present at the time of the interview?) I don’t remember which one it was unfortunately, but it was quite a relatively long article and from one of those on the comprehensive list of all of the newspaper features about him covering each year of his lifetime.  This would suggest that it did in fact refer to a real advertisement as opposed to being a joke or a figment of his imagination. 

Also, if the advertisement appeared in a “local paper", it might be worth checking the newspapers for Greenwich village itself for the period in question in an archive somewhere, assuming they are available - which I imagine would be more likely than not.

Sorry not to be of any more help, but maybe someone else will have a bit more luck tracking either of them (the interview or the advert itself) down from here further…

Good hunting!
Norma N Joy Conquest


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Anonymous
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"Kharlatan" wrote:
Spare also used the same "formula" to transcend "normality" in Zos speaks!. I recently read an article about porno surfers and their habit of seeking out new "perversities" and fetishes with the purpose of reaching new and higher peaks of ecstasy. It's kind of strange that he, Crowley, looked at it as an exercise of discipline .

Strange?  There's twisted sexuality (perversions) what Reich called "armour" and then there's mastery of mysticism.  There is a difference between the two.  I mean you wouldn't call Buddhist meditations on ones' own death as perverted or mad would you? The confusion arises though because Crowley may've also had a twisted perverted sexuality so we have to use discernment and common sense in approaching his writings.


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"In Italy, or rather Sicily...it is quite true that I had a Harem of freaks. Well, I was younger then, and had a lot of energy and could keep three women happy very easily, and from time to time four or five, depending on who was resident at my villa. The three steady ones were a hunchback, a hydrocephalic girl, and a hare-lipped albino...My three favourite freaks. I got them in New York through a newspaper ad." Crowley passed me a clipping, which read:

WANTED

Dwarfs, Hunchbacks, Tattooed
Women, Harrison Fisher Girls,
Freaks of All Sorts Only if
Exceptionally Ugly or De-
formed. To Pose For Artist.

"...some refused to pose in the nude...How else could the artist show the distorted vertebrae of the hunchback, the strangeness of the women with four breasts? Imagine, if you will, a lovely face, ripely sensual lips, amorous eyes, a delicate neck, shoulders which refuse to be covered, a bosom large but firm and a slender waist tapering out to hips which descend straight down in two great leg-trunks hugely bloated by elephantiasis..."
"How horrible!" I exclaimed.
"How horrible of you to say so!" said the old man sharply. "Her life had been a tragedy because young fools like you said "How horrible!" when their most persuasive seduction had removed her clothes and revealed, to their horror, those huge fat chunks of legs. But it was their horror, not hers. I loved the girl, and she became my mistress. She adored me with the total devotion of a priestess for her god. I became ten times the better man because of the strength of her adoration. And all because I loved her! A fantastically beautiful woman! I was desolate, absolutely desolate, when she died. There's an old Calypso song of advice that goes:
"If you want to be happy all of your life,
Always make an ugly woman your wife!"
"And indeed, I believe it. You see, my boy, a woman whom men call beautiful feels that she is maybe just a little too good for you, but a woman whom few men desire will be so grateful to you that if you happen to be a lazy man you will never have to work again."

I met Crowley toward the end of his life. I was to record a radio interview with him for later broadcast from a San Francisco station. This took place in his hotel suite, shortly before World War Two.

- Jackson Burke 'The Beast with Two Backs' Real Action for Men, Four Star Publications, New York, August 1957

I wonder if this interview was recorded and ever broadcast, or if the war prevented it?


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Falcon
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"Falcon" wrote:

I wonder if this interview was recorded and ever broadcast, or if the war prevented it?

"But, I'll never forget the next day, when we played what I had recorded. There was not one part of it suitable for broadcasting. The angry Program Director ordered me out of the studio at once, and the bookkeeper gave me my week's pay."

I wonder what became of the recording, whether it has survived, or if it was destroyed? It certainly sounds fascinating.


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William Thirteen
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or if it ever occurred at all 😉


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Falcon
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"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
or if it ever occurred at all 😉

From Richard T. Cole's introduction to the reprint:

Because 'who wants fake action!' Real Action For Men exploited the testosterone-fuelled wallets of a post-war generation of ex-soldiers yearning for the glory days when they travelled the world, fraternised with exotic, scantily-clad women, and blew the crap out of everything that moved - All before breakfast. The August 1957 edition featured a remarkable account of Jackson Burke's 1938 meeting with Crowley, to record an interview scheduled for broadcasting on an American radio station. Amongst other gems, Crowley offers a radically different account of the infamous 'I had the maid on mother's bed' incident originally aired in Confessions:

"I caught her alone one day in the scullery when all the house were away somewhere. What I was unable to accomplish by sheer muscular power, I managed by the ever-so-gentle pressure of boning knife to throat, and then this lecherous lass of 19 got her come-uppance from a mere stripling of 14 - and atop the meat-chopping block at that. The scullery maid called it rape, and my father packed me off to Malvern, a private school."

There are other discrepancies in Burke's account, he gets the date of Crowley's death and his age when he died wrong:

As for The Beast, he died a few year's later in 1948, and cremated at Brighton, England. He was 73 years old when he died, his reputation as a monster, rapist, killer, dope fiend and sorcerer intact.


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jamie barter
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"jamie barter" wrote:
I’m fairly sure that I recall reading about the contents of the advertisement in a fairly sympathetic (at least, as opposed to the reverse!) ... interview A.C. gave, in the course of which he was asked a couple of questions about it (including the Harrison Fisher girls and the 'divinity' of the more "horrible creatures" [...]

...My three favourite freaks. I got them in New York through a newspaper ad." Crowley passed me a clipping, which read: [...]

"How horrible!" I exclaimed.
"How horrible of you to say so!" said the old man sharply. "Her life had been a tragedy because young fools like you said "How horrible!" [...]

Well done, Falcon, yes that was precisely the article I’d read which I had in mind.  As can be seen, it definitely states that the said advertisement existed.  Now all we need is for someone to trundle through some microfiches of the New York “local papers” for the war years…

Much joy to them in the prospect  :D,
N Joy


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belmurru
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Symonds already quotes the "Wanted" advert in 1951, in any case, whatever its ultimate source.

Burke has to have made up most of what he reports, or, if he met Crowley as he said, AC really told him some whoppers. He never had "a hunchback, a hydrocephalic girl, and a hare-lipped albino" as concubines at the Abbey. He didn't have a mistress with elephantiasis, over whose death he was heartbroken.

His father couldn't have packed him off to Malvern, since he was already dead three years when AC was 14 (and he was 15 when he went to Malvern), etc...


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jamie barter
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"belmurru" wrote:
Symonds already quotes the "Wanted" advert in 1951, in any case, whatever its ultimate source.

I would have thought Symonds' source would have been in the Yorke collection, if he was quoting it direct and verbatim.

And even if Symonds was relaying it word-for-word accurate, I would still find it interesting to see the original typography, font and contextual background layout of it in its original glory, rather like viewing original facsimiles of The International can add something extra to the text of certain Crowley pieces within, for example.

"belmurru" wrote:
Burke has to have made up most of what he reports, or, if he met Crowley as he said, AC really told him some whoppers. He never had "a hunchback, a hydrocephalic girl, and hare-lipped albino" as concubines at the Abbey. He didn't have a mistress with elephantiasis, over whose death he was heartbroken.

His father couldn't have packed him off to Malvern, since he was already dead three years when AC was 14 (and he was 15 when he went to Malvern), etc...

Yes, Burke's actual accuracy leaves something to be desired.  But in other areas he does seem to my mind to have somehow captured the “flavour” of Crowley.

N Joy


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Falcon
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"jamie barter" wrote:
"belmurru" wrote:
Symonds already quotes the "Wanted" advert in 1951, in any case, whatever its ultimate source.

Yes, Burke's actual accuracy leaves something to be desired.  But in other areas he does seem to my mind to have somehow captured the “flavour” of Crowley.

N Joy

It is possible that Burke did meet Crowley but that he embellished his account via "poetic licence".


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Michael Staley
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"Falcon"" wrote:
It is possible that Burke did meet Crowley but that he embellished his account via "poetic licence".

Indeed. It's also possible that he made the whole thing up.


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jamie barter
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"Falcon" wrote:
"Falcon" wrote:
I wonder if this interview was recorded and ever broadcast, or if the war prevented it?

"But, I'll never forget the next day, when we played what I had recorded. There was not one part of it suitable for broadcasting. The angry Program Director ordered me out of the studio at once, and the bookkeeper gave me my week's pay."

I wonder what became of the recording, whether it has survived, or if it was destroyed? It certainly sounds fascinating.

It would probably have been wiped to make way for something else (reel-to-reel tape being expensive and relatively scarce in those days) – Aleistair Cooke’s Letter From America, perhaps?!  But if through by some marvel it were to still exist it would be a very valuable piece of interest to all followers (in all senses) of A.C.’s doings.

"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
or if it ever occurred at all 😉
"Michael Staley" wrote:
"Falcon"" wrote:
It is possible that Burke did meet Crowley but that he embellished his account via "poetic licence".

Indeed. It's also possible that he made the whole thing up.

It seems very unlikely that Burke would have invented the whole interview from scratch.  There are some professional standards, one assumes, and whatever they are, they would also have been more prevalent and prominent pre-War than they are today.

"Falcon" wrote:
"jamie barter" wrote:
"belmurru" wrote:
Symonds already quotes the "Wanted" advert in 1951, in any case, whatever its ultimate source.

Yes, Burke's actual accuracy leaves something to be desired.  But in other areas he does seem to my mind to have somehow captured the “flavour” of Crowley.

It is possible that Burke did meet Crowley but that he embellished his account via "poetic licence".

If he had not got the guff from the Aleister Crowley himself – and I rather agree with belmurru that I can see A.C. feeding him a line or several - maybe he got hold of a copy of the early part of Confessions from somewhere and failed to double-check his sources properly?  Burke could have invented seeing the advert based on what Crowley himself wrote in Confessions and embellished other bits and pieces, but it is no less improbable to consider that A.C. may have carried around a twenty year clipping in his wallet either.

Interesting that Burke quotes the advert word for word as it appears verbatim in Confessions, except though for the phrase “Colo{u}red Women”, which is omitted.  It almost goes without saying that such sensitivity would be, on Burke’s part, undoubtedly a reflection of the segregated society he was then a part of & that he may have even unwittingly self-censored.

Incidentally, if anyone is working at tracking down the microfiches for New York local papers from the Great War, in addition to wishing them the best of luck I would recommend they start at the end and work backwards (i.e., from 1919), since A.C. took up painting towards the latter rather than the former part of the hostilities.

N Joy


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steve_wilson
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"david" wrote:
The following is a quote from LIBER L L L L II

Now Love is the enkindling in ecstacy of Two that will to become One. It is thus an Universal formula of High Magick

Except, of course, that in Thelema we understands the formula to be that Two becomes None. It does seem that the Prophet was indeed a fool with his one, one, one. I commented to Zak Cox some 30 years ago that the Western Magickal tradition seems to see the ultimate goal as something very large, whereas ib the East the ultimate aim is very tiny. I was unaware at that point that Crowley considered himself a Buddhist at the time he received Liber Al.

It reminds me of the first of two reasons that the late Gerald Suster gave for disliking the New Age (from memory):

"First, they jam everything in together, saying that Moksha and Nirvana are the same thing really, when Moksha is becoming everything and Nirvana is becoming nothing."

Crowley, perhaps, always preferred Moksha.

And for the sake of completeness, Suster's second reason for hating the New Age mobvement was "it's shit".


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"steve_wilson" wrote:
"david" wrote:
The following is a quote from LIBER L L L L II

Now Love is the enkindling in ecstacy of Two that will to become One. It is thus an Universal formula of High Magick

Except, of course, that in Thelema we understands the formula to be that Two becomes None. It does seem that the Prophet was indeed a fool with his one, one, one. I commented to Zak Cox some 30 years ago that the Western Magickal tradition seems to see the ultimate goal as something very large, whereas ib the East the ultimate aim is very tiny. I was unaware at that point that Crowley considered himself a Buddhist at the time he received Liber Al.

The spitting on the crapulous creeds and tearing out of the flesh of the Buddhist must have caused some grief then. 


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jamie barter
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As I remarked earlier, despite some of the glaring factual inaccuracies there is still something about the Jackson Burke interview (which, in my opinion, seems to have actually happened as well as having been taped) that reverberates with a ring of truth for those familiar with anecdotes by others concerning Crowley, and the tone of it is also rather more sympathetic towards him than one would come to expect from this sort of pulp journalism, as the following short & amusing extracts may convey for the benefit of those who do not have access to the actual article from Richard Cole’s anthology themselves [ed. “The Un-Magickal Record Of The Great Beast 666”, pp. 154-9]:  (It also clarifies the matter of the "Harrison Fisher" girls, who seems to have been the contemporary equivalent of Storm Agency supermodels.)

[… He] had just pulled an oriental water-pipe from around the end of a sofa and appeared to be about to light it.  I had already seen him drink three ponies of brandy in the half hour since I arrived at the hotel.  He prepared the narhileh with expert hands, then touched a flame to it.  The water-pipe bubbled and chuckled as if a genie were inside.
"I must interrupt, sir.  Do you actually smoke hasheesh in that thing?”
“Naturally,” he replied.  “Like to try it?”
“Certainly not!” I said.  “Some sort of drug, isn’t it?”
“Precisely,” was the matter-of-fact answer.  He inhaled deeply. […]

“The three steady [“freaks”] you refer to were a hunchback, a hydrocephalic girl, and a hare-lipped albino, and it was they who crossed the Alps with me during my escape from Italy. [!] They had gone to Sicily with me from New York.
“Excuse me,” I said, “ but I got lost between Sicily and the Alps.”
“It happens that way sometimes with hasheesh, young man,” Crowley said, smiling.
“Bit I’m not smoking the drug, you are!” I exclaimed.  “I’m just drinking this whiskey!”
“Precisely the point, lad, you should use the pipe, you really should!  Ah, let me see, where were we? … My three favourite freaks.  I got them in New York through a newspaper ad.” [… {this now segues into the quote supplied by Falcon - jb}]

These people lived at No. 72 [Bank Street] on Crowley’s bounty.  Several of the women were his regulars, for he always had a harem composed mostly of his various freaks and one or two Harrison Fisher girls for contrast.  […] Harrison Fisher girls, named after the artist whose models they were, were just about the prettiest things that ever came down the pike.  Nice, clean, fresh-looking girls, wholesome, and as desirable as ripe peaches. […]

Some time during the course of the evening, the bourbon and the doped goodies took effect on me.  There was a wild dance with Crowley booming a tub-drum and the tiny Chinese singing shrilly and the saucer-eyed Gypsy [both also apparently present during the interview – jb] whirling about me while he stamped his feet and hoarsely shouted.
I don’t remember leaving Crowley, or how I got home, or much else about the rest of that night.  But, I’ll never forget the next day, when we played what I had recorded.  There was not one part of it suitable for broadcasting. […]

As for The Beast, he died a few years later, in 1948 [sic], and was cremated at Brighton, England.  He was 73 [sic] years old when he died, his reputation as a monster, rapist, killer, dope fiend and sorcerer intact.

But, there were those who looked upon him as the friend of the friendless, the only hope of hopeless women, lover of the lame and the halt and the blind, of weirdies and nitwits, poor tender broken flowers and leering beggars – girls of all races, a legless swede, a wall-eyed Negress, a lunatic Mexican, a four-breasted Russian, hunchbacked half-castes and even “basket” cases…

To these The Beast was a Saint!

(Jackson Burke – “The Beast With Two Backs”, August 1957.)[/align:3dhxlsav]

I was wondering, would anyone know if there is anything in A.C.’s diaries circa 1938 about such an interview taking place in his “hotel room”?  It seems unlikely that other people would be present, especially the “tiny Chinese” woman and “saucer-eyed Gypsy” whom are mentioned, but anything must be regarded as at least possible until the evidence discounts it so far as the Beast is concerned.  It must have been held in England, since that was where Crowley was based throughout the ‘30s after coming back from Germany in ’32:  Burke states that the radio station he was attached to was in San Francisco, but as A.C. certainly never set foot on American soil again after 1919, it couldn’t have been anywhere over there.

In New York did all these “Colored Women” go ‘do do do, do do-do, do do do, do do, do do-do, do (what thou wilt)'?
(with apologies to Lou Reed :-[)
‘и[sub:3dhxlsav]Joy[/sub:3dhxlsav]


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Since reply#17 the purpose of the OP was diverted.  I don't mind that it happens but just a reminder that this thread is about enlightenment through the conquest of dualism and how people view that.


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jamie barter
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"david" wrote:
Since reply#17 the purpose of the OP was diverted.  I don't mind that it happens but just a reminder that this thread is about enlightenment through the conquest of dualism and how people view that.

A new career move for you, david, in that you’ve decided to assume the helmet and become one of the website’s unofficial policemen who like to remind others whenever they perceive that the thread may have gone slightly off-tangent?  It is important for those who do so to remember though: “Let them without stain cast the first stone”.  Though if you don’t mind that it happens it seems contradictory that you should also take the time out to specifically point it up!

Certainly if it deviated big time & for a prolonged period there might be a need to draw things in again (and I think paul as lashtal webmaster is perfectly competent at being able to do so when required), but I don’t think this thread was drastically diverted from its original proposition but rather like other ones in a similar position it organically just grew, in the manner of the flow of normal conversation.

And Topsy! 🙂
N Joy


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A kind of side effect of empathising with Crowley and all of his works, indeed an almost requisite I suppose, is a willingness to except the complex of the Scarlet woman. To see beauty in and beyond the restrictions of race and creed. Like a Nun marries herself to the impossible concept of Christ, so Thelemites must seek out the myth of the whore of the stars


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"Baal" wrote:
A kind of side effect of empathising with Crowley and all of his works, indeed an almost requisite I suppose, is a willingness to except the complex of the Scarlet woman. To see beauty in and beyond the restrictions of race and creed. Like a Nun marries herself to the impossible concept of Christ, so Thelemites must seek out the myth of the whore of the stars

I don't think it's necessarily just about "race and creed." 


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William Thirteen
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indeed ... with AC bank balance was also often taken into consideration 😉


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"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
indeed ... with AC bank balance was also often taken into consideration 😉

yes for sure 😀


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"Kharlatan" wrote:
The instructors of The Gnostic church teaches that it's impossible to raise kundalini without a spouse - it's simply impossible to generate enough energy without, they claim.

Is that so?


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jamie barter
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You claimed that the OP was diverted and had therefore gone off-topic,

"david" wrote:
Since reply#17 the purpose of the OP was diverted. [...]

but your Reply #11 would seem to aver that the topic was “nailed” to your satisfaction:

Reply #11by david on: December 20, 2014, 1138 pm:

Quote from: herupakraath on December 20, 2014, 1119 pm:
“Not in the least. Crowley ran an ad while living in London seeking physically deformed sex partners; he states that it was an exercise in discipline, to try and force himself to see beauty in all persons regardless of their physical appearance.”

That's brilliant thanks! I was right after all and Crowley did put his money where his mouth was.  You just nailed it.  Exactly what I was looking for but what is your source just out of interest?

by herupakraath’s comment (quoted in the text) regarding “Crowley ran an ad while living in London”, except that he was mistaken in that it was New York, not London, where the ad appeared (as subsequently pointed out).  Everything after that more or less referred to the contents of this advert in some form or other with the exception of Baal’s most recent posting.

However the implication from your words, david, that the topic was nailed so far as you yourself were concerned, suggested that relevant discussion had come to an end and therefore needed go no further from your own viewpoint as OP.  What exactly is it then you would be seeking to reintroduce to the thread here?

Also, your words today on a different thread also show a variance with your previous stance (I still cannot seem to link directly, I must be using an older software application):

Reply #40 by david in “Re: Is there a difference between magical initiation and psychotherapy?” thread on the Thelema board on: 20th January 2015 at 1156 am:

[… T]his is a subject /thread where new creative ideas occurred to me and were inputted by myself and others and therefore views change as the discussion progresses.

A change of heart, maybe?!

‘иJoy


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"jamie barter" wrote:
You claimed that the OP was diverted and had therefore gone off-topic,

"david" wrote:
Since reply#17 the purpose of the OP was diverted. [...]

but your Reply #11 would seem to aver that the topic was “nailed” to your satisfaction:

No Jamie not the thread or the OP being "nailed" but just  that particular revelation of evidence of Crowley seeking a vile concubine in order to find beauty in ugliness.  That appeared to be "nailed" by the information presented about the ad.  The OP is about L L L L  and as I asked in the OP;

Secondly we have the masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines,  I don't know if this is some sort of joke here.  Does he mean concubines/women who are morally and spiritually vile or physically vile?  He himself seemed to be attracted to women who were not that physically vile so is this more hypocricy on his part or did he secretly seek out ugly looking hookers as a spiritual exercise?

Hopefully that's cleared up?  The thread is about the alleged spirituality inherent in finding beauty in ugliness and, if I may add,  the validity of such work as a means to doing our Will(s).  To be blunt Jamie, how would you feel about finding your Will in making love to a "vile and horrible" sex-partner? 


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jamie barter
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"david" wrote:
[..] Hopefully that's cleared up?

So you mean to say there's still some mileage yet to go?  Oh, good-oh! 😮 ::) 🙁 ;D

"david" wrote:
The thread is about the alleged spirituality inherent in finding beauty in ugliness and, if I may add,  the validity of such work as a means to doing our Will(s).  To be blunt Jamie, how would you feel about finding your Will in making love to a "vile and horrible" sex-partner?

You’re asking me to give a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical example there?  Well, I’ll try to oblige you; if my gut instincts judged this putative partner to be truly vile & horrible so that I felt averse to them & that I should avoid or shun them, I would question whether I might in fact be correct in thinking it was my true Will to make love to them.  On the other hand, if I knew for sure that I would find and carry out my true Will in so doing, well then I suppose I might grit my teeth as it were and plough onwards to do the dirty deed – providing I was physically enabled to do so, of course (ifyouknowwhatimean).

Trusting this (!) might serve to answer your question (?)
‘и Joy


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"jamie barter" wrote:
You’re asking me to give a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical example there?  Well, I’ll try to oblige you; if my gut instincts judged this putative partner to be truly vile & horrible so that I felt averse to them & that I should avoid or shun them, I would question whether I might in fact be correct in thinking it was my true Will to make love to them.).

I wasn't asking whether that particular example of aversion-confrontation would be "your True Will" but whether it would aid you in finding your True Will. 

"jamie barter" wrote:
On the other hand, if I knew for sure that I would find and carry out my true Will in so doing, well then I suppose I might grit my teeth as it were and plough onwards to do the dirty deed – providing I was physically enabled to do so, of course

Well this is part of Crowley's teachings; to explore one's own aversions and face them directly.       

As I said in the OP (which is Crowley explaining that Love=union=yoga=Will);

"The following is a quote from LIBER L L L L  II

OF LOVE it is written that “Love is the law, love under will.” Herein is an Arcanum concealed, for in the Greek Language Agaph, Love, is of the same numerical value as Velhma, Will. By this we understand that the Universal Will is of the nature of Love.

Now Love is the enkindling in ecstacy of Two that will to become One. It is thus an Universal formula of High Magick. For see now how all things, being in sorrow caused by dividuality, must of necessity will Oneness as their medicine.

Here also is Nature monitor to them that seek Wisdom at her breast: for in the uniting of elements of opposite polarities is there a glory of heat, of light, and of electricity.

Thus in human love also we see that mediocrities among men mate with null women: but History teacheth us that the supreme masters of the world seek ever the vilest and most horrible creatures for their concubines, overstepping even the limiting laws of sex and species in their necessity to transcend normality. It is not enough in such natures to excite lust or passion: the imagination itself must be enflamed by every means.

In terms of Thelemic practice I was cooking tea the other night and I thought I'd put some music on.  I was about to put something I like on from youtube but then I thought ..wait..no.  Which album would I really not want to have on?  I thought, ok  The best of Willie Nelson (and apologies to any Nelson fans here) so I put that on and just endured it. 

Likewise the other night you know those crime documentaries?  Ordinarily I would not want to watch such unpleasant viewing but then I stopped and thought, no, leave it on and bear with it and watch it all.


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William Thirteen
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aha...

i thought i felt a disturbance in The Force the other night, now that explains it!


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"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
aha...

i thought i felt a disturbance in The Force the other night, now that explains it!

HAHa I think I get that joke.  That's good.


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In terms of personal repulsion-confrontation there's good footage of open-heart surgery and the like on youtube.  I think Crowley would've recommended watching such movies and recording the amount of times one flinches during the viewing. 


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jamie barter
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Please could you state an exact source for your quote in the OP?  (For one thing, there are no Roman numericals which match up with the ones you give – they don’t “add up”: i.e., what is Liber L L L L  II ?).

I was thinking, the title of this thread itself reads like an advert:

Thelemic monk seeks vile and most horrible creature for concubine

Would you be this Thelemic monk, david?  What the hell is a ‘Thelemic monk’ anyway - it seems a bit of a contradiction to Liber AL II:24.  In view of your remark:

OP by david on: December 20, 2014, 1253 pm:

As a potential trainee zen Buddhist monk I understand the general gist of this chapter but this idea about medicore men are attracted to "null women" I don't get it.  Maybe it's a reading comprehension issue.

did you perhaps mean a zen monk who happens to accept the Law of Thelema?

"david" wrote:
"jamie barter" wrote:
You’re asking me to give a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical example there?  Well, I’ll try to oblige you; if my gut instincts judged this putative partner to be truly vile & horrible so that I felt averse to them & that I should avoid or shun them, I would question whether I might in fact be correct in thinking it was my true Will to make love to them.).

I wasn't asking whether that particular example of aversion-confrontation would be "your True Will" but whether it would aid you in finding your True Will. 

"jamie barter" wrote:
On the other hand, if I knew for sure that I would find and carry out my true Will in so doing, well then I suppose I might grit my teeth as it were and plough onwards to do the dirty deed – providing I was physically enabled to do so, of course

Well this is part of Crowley's teachings; to explore one's own aversions and face them directly.

In response to this and your questions at the end of the OP there, the inference could be towards the mental attitude (i.e. not necessarily to be followed through on the physical plane) required in the first Chapter of Liber LXV:

45.  Go thou to the outermost places and subdue all things.
46.  Subdue thy fear and thy disgust.  Then - yield!

One may be at risk of taking things too literally too, though.  A.C. did not expect his writings to be swallowed wholesale by the uninformed credulous, to whom he was not above laying traps for on occasion.  The reader should therefore be open to where he (A.C.) may not be transparently clear and plain, and may have spiked his words for the unwary, needing the taking of the appropriate pinch of salt where necessary.  There is a danger of taking things too far and not only making a great miss but falling into the pit of catastrophe.

"Azidonis" wrote:
"Kharlatan" wrote:
The instructors of The Gnostic church teaches that it's impossible to raise kundalini without a spouse - it's simply impossible to generate enough energy without, they claim.

Is that so?

Would the word “spouse” have been meant literally here, or as convenient shorthand for, say, “any sex-magickal partner”?

NJoy


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"jamie barter" wrote:
Please could you state an exact source for your quote in the OP?  (For one thing, there are no Roman numericals which match up with the ones you give – they don’t “add up”: i.e., what is Liber L L L L  II ?).

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib150.html  LIBER CL  Book 150
De Lege Libellum ; OF LOVE.... and isn't this, by the way written specifically for those within the elemental grades?

"jamie barter" wrote:
Would you be this Thelemic monk, david?  What the hell is a ‘Thelemic monk’ anyway - it seems a bit of a contradiction to Liber AL II:24.  In view of your remark:

Don't read too much into it.  It was a mock humorous dating- ad. 

"jamie barter" wrote:
One may be at risk of taking things too literally too, though.  A.C. did not expect his writings to be swallowed wholesale by the uninformed credulous, to whom he was not above laying traps for on occasion.  The reader should therefore be open to where he (A.C.) may not be transparently clear and plain, and may have spiked his words for the unwary, needing the taking of the appropriate pinch of salt where necessary.  There is a danger of taking things too far and not only making a great miss but falling into the pit of catastrophe.

Danger?  What did Crowley say about danger?  He said, "Live dangerously!"

You and I could talk about our squeamishness levels on an intellectual level.  There are Buddhist monks who walk to their temple through the jungle knowing all too well that tarantulas regularly drop from the trees and venomous snakes coil about anything that moves.

I believe Crowley aimed to neutralize squeamishness and repulsion within himself along his Way and he thought that Thelemites should follow suit.  Neil from the Young Ones he was not.  Spirituality is not just about sun-drenched beaches, dream-machine sittings and group hugs.  Not that I'm implying that you personally project that notion. He's clear about this in his writings in various places as you probably know.  Didn't he even  produce a formula akin to something like Face, Endure, Assimilate, Reintegrate?.  How would you know how squeamish you are unless you explore it for yourself?  It's there for all to see that Crowley was not just an armchair academic.  He pushed himself and he pushed others.  Sure we must apply discernment in this and Cabbalistically speaking the QLPthic aspect of Geburah is wreckless abandon as it were.   


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