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Too fast too soon...


 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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About 20 years ago there was a group working in my area that were break away GD'ers who worked in the Thelemite trad. They took a young and brilliant man of my aquaintence and put him through his steps. He had the IQ of a genius and showed a lot of promise...

He was in his early 20's when he underwent the abyss - and emerged 6 months later. Apparently this was a progressive invention...

What really happened was that he came to a recognition of his attachments only superficially and now he is a black hole rather than a star. In magickal work - patience is still a virtue, and the work takes as long as it takes.

A cautionary note.

The abyss in any normal human being should and does takes years and most likely last beyond a decade. Any group or circle that promises a Mcdonalds experience should be shunned.

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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Dear Alrah,

Do what you wilt shall be the whole of the Law!

So, then you don't respond.

But the main thing is: there is no time setting on crossing the abyss. As soon as someone says: I want to cross the abyss then and then... then you are talking to a fool in the less attractive description of a fool.

If you are talking about crossing the abyss in a timeframe, then you are not talking about crossing the abyss at all. You are guessing that crossing the abyss has something to do with time and space. The whole idea of crossing the abyss is transforming time and space into something beyond infinity. That's impossible for a human mind to grasp.

So: as long as people don't have a lust for result they can cross the abyss, but that is easier said than done. But more important: start at the beginning in stead of wanting to start at the end.

Love is the law, love under will.

Walter


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"alrah" wrote:
He was in his early 20's when he underwent the abyss - and emerged 6 months later.

Alrah - I have no idea what you mean by "emerged 6 months later". Is the Abyss like a very long tunnel and one pops out the other side back to normal reality?


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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It's a bit odd to post such a "warning" and then refuse to comment further...esp. when it's a kick-off to a THREAD on a discussion forum. 😯

walter9393, however, has some insightful things to say above.

Taking the "Oath of the Abyss" and jumping into the "waters" isn't some horrifyingly dangerous action which will destroy you if you "emerge" from the waves too soon. The thing that makes people into off-kilter, self-absorbed wrecks is the failure to persevere until every last "drop is drained," every last idea and attachment surrendered. It's paradoxical because on one hand, you are truly reduced to ashes and blown away. Gate Gate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha Hum. Yet there is an incarnate form and mind which is still "there" (or remaining in its own territory).

"Crossing the Abyss" might be seen as a type of "re-entry" or "reincarnation" into the body and mind, having bridged the gap between the Supernal Influx and its expressive vehicle in such a fashion that so-called "Master of the Temple" consciousness is established as the mainstay of one's Way. I say "so-called" because the notion of being a "Master" tends to appeal to the ego and (to borrow a term which has been used quite a bit on these threads to date) "fancy pictures" of what one would like to be. One might encounter struggles and surrenders and Gnosis in this "Abyss" and think because this is the case, they've manifested their "fancy picture." This mentality (which can be perniciously subtle) I see as Crowley's description of the "Black Brother." The "undestroyed bits" grow beneath the soil and emerge in time to smash up the works. It seemed to happen with Achad and thus, Crowley simply encouraged him to go back and work through the Grades. But the idea that one is now a "Master" makes such a suggestion seem like an affront to due respect. I don't think a MT is concerned with getting "due respect" and is quite comfortable at this point understanding how such a suggestion, from one vantage point, has been a direct act of "God" dealing with his Soul. It would have been very interesting if Achad simply said "You know what, Aleister, I believe you've got a good point there! Back to work..."

The idea that fulfilling the "Oath" is generally about a decade of work is just that: an IDEA. The idea that one has become a "Master of the Temple" is also just an IDEA and it can be a self-stroking bolstering of self-image, an identification with a an elevated state of attainment that has somehow made one "better." Our friend, the gaping maw of the Abyss, is ready to help properly masticate these ideas. Thus, we have the "Babe of the Abyss" who does nothing but "grow in the Womb."

Before "reincarnating" into that body-mind thing we seem to have (which still maintains its form, memories and so on), we need to mature and develop in the influx of Supernal Light and Being. Upon "rebirth," the MT is not so concenred with displaying his new trophy or certificate, but gets to the business of being a vehicle which manifests that Mastery, in his or her own unique way.

Or so I've heard. 🙂


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"tai" wrote:
"alrah" wrote:
He was in his early 20's when he underwent the abyss - and emerged 6 months later.

Alrah - I have no idea what you mean by "emerged 6 months later". Is the Abyss like a very long tunnel and one pops out the other side back to normal reality?

To give you an image.... Think of a normal person of typical proportions that's lugging around an obscenely fat backside (his attachments). This backside is so huge that it scapes along the pavement when he walks along the street. And when he tries to go through a narrow door his enormous arse get's stuck in the frame and he bounces back.

So he 'enters the abyss', and attaches a sign to his backside that invites the universe and each passer by. The sign says 'kick me'.

Now if he wears the sign over his backside for long enough, then his arse will be kicked into shape and he'll be able to go through the doorway. If he get's tired of it, he can remove the sign, and play doing mooney's to the other pedestrians on the road because he's lost a few pounds off each cheek.

There's only so far I can take this metaphor. lol.


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 Anonymous
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"Alrah" wrote:
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No comment (again) 😆


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michaelclarke18
(@michaelclarke18)
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Think of a normal person of typical proportions that's lugging around an obscenely fat backside (his attachments). This backside is so huge that it scapes along the pavement when he walks along the street.

Excuse me. There isn't anything wrong with having a fat backside!


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 Anonymous
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Lol! Is that what all the sighing's been about?


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
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"alrah" wrote:
Lol! Is that what all the sighing's been about?

I'd say that's a pretty good stab in the dark.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Walter - I agree with you that you can't set a time limit on the abyss. What you can do however, is ask the HGA how long it will take and get a reasonable answer. You can even (pre-abyss) set up a signal for when it's over. For me - it was a car crash into a wall. I'd stupidly thought that would be fitting in my pre-abyss conception of what the abyss might be. Ultimately it's the HGA that is arranging everything in the abyss to challenge the ego consciousness you've built up with all it's manifold attachments. People who say the HGA disappears - well that's just simply nonesense. It can appear like that however. Especially if you are told that it's gone and you start believing that you - the little 'i' is all alone and battling with whatever comes along next, forgetting that you're in the abyss and forgetting your oath. That's not true though.

I agree with a lot that KH says about the title Magister Templi. It's an empty a title as the ego is. It arouses a lot of agro from people if you use it. It sounds grande, doesn't it? I haven't met anyone whose been through the abyss who wants it or feels like they've a right to it or have earned it just for going through the abyss. The only reason for anyone taking up this ridiculous title is as a little reminder of exactly where the lure of ego and attachments once took you. Magister Tempi... It has no shine on it. It is rather a threat and a reminder of past lessons.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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As a general rule, there seems to be no point talking about the states beyond 7=4 since it transcends Daath and can only be experienced in silence.


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 Anonymous
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There are always exceptions to the rule Tai. Honesty cannot hurt more than delusion does. As human beings we remain social animals, and I do not see any worth in building pedestals and ivory towers if the consequence is merely to be misunderstood by the many.

If you throw 3 stones in the river then you can play hopsotch on the 3. If you throw 8 on the river then you can hopscotch on 8. If you then come back and party with the children that have only hopscotched 3 - well, hopscotch is still fun. 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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I think you are a social animal and like to have fun. But you don't need to claim 8=3 to achieve this. You're really ok. As you are.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Lololol. Ok Tai - I'm a Neophyte. I hope you won't mind if I keep commenting on matters that are within my experience though. 🙂

Actually Tai - I love my p & q and have no need for much social interaction these days. This is the internet, and much here is a play. The plays the thing - wherein we'll see the conscience of the King! I can acomplish no more here than the highest ideal of performance art. In my 'play' here I adopt certain masks like the rest. The best mask is the ultimate lie of complete honesty. See Liber 333.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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"alrah" wrote:
Comments will not be responded to on this post.

Five responses to comments and counting... Mind you, it was a puzzling piece of self-restriction in the first place.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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🙂 Lol - next time I try this trick I'll have to say that I really really mean it and carry it through! Actually - I'll have to do it first on a non important subject.

It's a high priority discussion and I hoped a few souls would comment without the influence of what the OP might think/respond/or say. In the first comment I gave - it was the form of a metaphor intended to ground it. Walters "The whole idea of crossing the abyss is transforming time and space into something beyond infinity. That's impossible for a human mind to grasp." might have took the whole thing into fairy land.

Self restriction can sometimes be a freedom gift. In this act, the performance didn't go too far, but I will be so disciplined next time. There's nothing worse than mothering a seed so much that it dies in early infancy.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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Make that 6 responses, now.

Locked.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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