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What constitutes a successful ritual?  

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 Anonymous
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09/08/2009 2:52 pm  

How do you know if your ritual has been a success?

Would it be some kind of vision or communication?

Attainment of a different state of consciousness?


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 Anonymous
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10/08/2009 7:56 am  

This is entirely too broad of a question and the answer, if there is one, is going to be very subjective. I would like to see what others say, though.

If I am doing an Evocation then yes, a vision or communication (usually it is voices or sounds with me) would fit the bill. With Invocation this may be the same case but it is usually more of a feeling than anything else. This feeling of knowing when one is successful without the "vision and the voice" can also include Assumptions of Godforms (obviously), prayer/adoration and a group of Yoga practices. I wish I could expand more but there are to many Rituals out there with many opposing outcomes, enviorments, phenomena and other things to consider before going any further.


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 Anonymous
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22/10/2009 7:24 pm  

Attaining the goal, what else? you could have degrees of success where you dont attaint the goal but manage to get close to it.


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 Anonymous
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23/10/2009 7:39 am  

I agree that this question is a bit vague... I would say that it depends upon the intent of the ritual. I can say this: "If the ritual is successful, then you will Know that it was successful.


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 Anonymous
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28/10/2009 5:27 pm  

LBPR always is successful, more or less, you feel or not. Alike with any ritual you perform.

LBPR knows better what you need 😉


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Walterfive
(@walterfive)
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28/10/2009 7:03 pm  

Well, I don't know. If a ritual produces results that I wasn't expecting, or intending, I wouldn't categorize it a success, although some might. In explanation, it could be effective, or affective, without being successful. Success in Goetic Magick, for example, means not only communication, but sending the Daemon back to its realm without adverse effects...


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alysa
(@alysa)
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28/10/2009 7:19 pm  

Very well put Walterfive!


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 Anonymous
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28/10/2009 8:50 pm  

93.

Without directly contradicting Waterfive, who I agree with, I personally find a certain amount of success in anything that I can learn from...which would be most workings.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
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29/10/2009 6:51 pm  

When(rituals) heptagram is usable?

(any secret rituals and secrets?)


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 Anonymous
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29/10/2009 7:37 pm  

How heptagram is used/

I dont do banishings anymore, only invokings, because after banishings invoking are less afective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regular_polytopes#Two_Dimensions_2


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 Anonymous
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30/10/2009 6:32 am  

@Vaidis:

What makes you believe that invocations are less effective after banishings? That pretty much contradicts most material taught by Crowley.

What is the link to wikipedia for?


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 Anonymous
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30/10/2009 8:44 am  

(What makes you believe that invocations are less effective after banishings? ) Just some notices from mine practise. i' am new here i do not belong to any group or order, i have only few contacts to talk about magick. Started practise ritual one year ago.
🙂


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 Anonymous
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30/10/2009 8:47 am  

Sory again for duoble post >>here is no edit button.

The link i gave for wikipedia, later i explained, that here are many heptagrams(not 5 or 6 points but 20, 50 how much u want) And here are magick rituals only with +11 points in heptragram 11=5+6


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SatansAdvocaat
(@satansadvocaat)
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30/10/2009 2:44 pm  

What constitutes an effective ritual ?? A Sense of sublime reality that you have never achieved before, I would say. If you truly get caught up in the ritual it takes on a sense of flowing spontaneity that makes absolute and irrevocable reality: the true will flows and anything seems possible. Best not to get too crazy with that perception, but accept the reality of its non-reality in a semi-divine sort of realistic, human way.

But depending on the Ritual; you need to get results. (Why do I waste my time on the National Lottery?? - Venus Kamea , it should be dead simple !).

This is why I love AC.

Regards - Satan's Advocaat.


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 Anonymous
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30/10/2009 6:02 pm  

@Vaidis:

It's generally good magical hygiene to do some sort of banishing or grounding before doing ritual work. Your mind should be in a clear state of mind when beginning any working. Who knows what kind of sludge you're bringing into a ritual. Me, I simply start off every ritual with closing my eyes, reciting "For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect.", a line from the Book of the Law, and then getting on with it.


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frater_anubis
(@frater_anubis)
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04/11/2009 7:38 pm  

Greetings

This is an interesting thread. I'm suprised that more ritualists among us havent expressed an opinion....so here is mine.

AC defined Magick in Part III of Book 4 as "Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will" So, by that definition a successfull ritual causes the required change. AC also advocated keeping a Magical Diary to record events. He repeatedly stressed the importance of the Diary, as it provides documented evidence of results. Sometimes things Change in unexpected ways, one gets the feeling that it's not a precise science......

There is an eastern tradition known as the Law of Karma. Maybe sometimes the magical current raised during ritual is influenced by one's personal karma. I've always thought that explains the unexpectted phenomena often associated with it.
At least you know if you get a lot of phenomena your ritual is having some sort of effect!

Regards

Johnny


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Lucius
(@lucius)
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05/11/2009 3:45 am  

[(Why do I waste my time on the National Lottery?? - Venus Kamea , it should be dead simple !).]

Personally, I've had the understanding that the Venus Kamea would relate to the realm of sexual relationships and the emotions, Netzach if you wish to get Qabalistic.
If I were trying to use a Kamea to win the National Lottery it would be Jupiter, or perhaps more accurate still Mercury. That is, unless you're referring to Crowley's brilliant joke in Magick in Theory & Practice about how if you've had the spirits bring you enough gold you should have no shortage of attention from the ladies...

Brilliant topic: I'm amazed that we haven't discussed it before.
There are a lot of rituals, results may vary, just as people do


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SatansAdvocaat
(@satansadvocaat)
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05/11/2009 1:59 pm  

Thanks for that Lucius - some very pertinent observations !

The logic to my apparently non-logical, magical choice of Kamea is that the Venus Kamea has 49 squares, of course, the same number of balls as there are in the British National Lottery, making it a suitably tangential choice. However, as regards this particular enterprise I would not recommend 'invoking often'.

Spend your money on good magickal books, instead.


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 Anonymous
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06/11/2009 1:38 am  

'Success' May not be written, until completion of The Great work.
The Magus has provided various formulae: E.G. The Invocation of BABALON: That is; She is able to descend from above, to below Abyss regions, using The Master Therions Formulae.
If this be Thine intent; and She appears Unto full physical manifestation; One may consider this 'Success'; as is the full material manifestation of any Entity; 'success', RE:-Any Invocation/Evocation. There are, naturally;
Multiple variations-E.G. At the height of Ritual: To observe The descending of Triangle of Fire licking up The Offering upon The Alter;
constitutes success in the mechanics of The Operation---The Intent of The Working; as thus has been generated with
power, is a matter unique to The Working. E.G. The Creation of a Golem, the quality of such; depends upon Ones skill in such matters.
:mrgreen:
Such is Ones Viewpoint.
XV


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sonofthestar
(@sonofthestar)
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06/11/2009 4:59 am  

93!

'Success' May not be written, until completion of The Great work.

This is indeed Wonderful!
For it defines the crux of our real priorities.

There are many rituals many desire to complete.
Some are desirable as to the worth of the working thereof;
others not so grand in their outcome,
even when successful.

The Adept, sets his/her self apart:
in that such a will as to make oneself that (an Adept)
yearns us unto that ultimate communion
with The Holy Guardian Angel.
This yearning I would liken as unto the saying "I bleed for You".
Every drop of effort, striving, learning,
through failures, to success through perseverance,
goes Into Her Cup---The Grail of Our Lady Babalon.
This is the Consecration commencing Our Great Work,
as the very Life of each of Her Adepts partaking in it.
The Blood of Her cherished Saints!
One's very will becomes indistinguishable from the Great Work,
as made manifest: above and below, upon all planes,
unto the blessings of that promise granted:
The Certainty of The Consciousness of Continuity.

93! 93! 93!


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 Anonymous
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07/11/2009 4:29 am  

Firstly, clear the space.
Secondly, populate the space.
Thirdly, clear the space.


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 Anonymous
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09/11/2009 3:17 am  

My opinion here is perhaps a bit mundane, but here goes.

To me, there's an inportant emphasis on the Method of Science' as I work toward the Aim of Religeon. So I always try to treat a magickal working in much the same light that a scientific researcher treats his/her experiments -- that is to say, any result of the experiment that I can learn from is a sucess, even if that result is nothing. Keeping this attitude in mind at all times, I find, hepls me avoid the 'expectation of result' Uncle Al warned against.


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 Anonymous
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09/11/2009 9:24 pm  

Measuring success in rituals:
Invocation - awareness or a strong "clue" towards what you are seeking is "brought to mind" within a period of days after the working. If you seek a type of "awakening of Thoth" then you simply look to the benefits of which "he" brings - ability to write more precisely, ease with explaining yourself, record keeping, etc. If invoking "Set" it would be the ability to confront your challenges in life with more self-encouragement and inner strength, etc.

Evocation - if calling a Goetic spirit, don't concern yourself with over-focus towards "appearance" or manifestation, dedicate yourself in the working towards charging the sigil and the purpose of the spirit. Results would be favorable within days and this would be an excellent measurement of success. Look for strange areas where the "spirit" may manifest - omens, little positive points and results where you least expect them, etc.
If you have spiritual "knocks", shades appearing then this does not represent "success", it is often side-phenomena.

Akhtya


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frater_anubis
(@frater_anubis)
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13/11/2009 11:13 pm  

Greetings

This lis a youtube link to a recording of AC intoning "The Pentagram" - in its own way a powerful example of ritual. I was watching this the other evening and the chiming clock that sits on my dresser suddenly stopped ticking, as the Master began to sonorously intone the first stanza...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_5YdXO1VT8&feature=related

I can imagine that voice calling forth Choronzon as described in the Vision and the Voice

Regards

Johnny


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 Anonymous
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17/11/2009 3:05 pm  

WHOA VAIDIS!!! Well spotted; Kuniggety: One can only speak from personal experience, of course;
Yet Universal truths do surely apply to Ritual. Casting Ones memory back several decades: upon first entering the trance/altered state of conciousness, neccesary for Ritual; One does observe: The floodgates to the subconcious realms are opened; without banishing, One will hear a cacophony, seemingly from below: These are the untamed elements of Self, demons being a common expression for such phenomena.
Unchecked; these elements will rise; deluging the mind with discordia. The BRLP controls this; that a clear mind, may observe thoughts arising, unbidden; or listen to the two hemisheres of the brain conversing; and 'rise' further, that One may realise that:-
Seemingly around, and above; let Us say: The Supraconcious mind may be accessed, I.E.- ArchAngels; God/desses; may be Invoked.
The 'lower', demonic selves; must be trained; controlled, as in Goetic Evocation; where the willed compartmentalised self, or 'fallen Angel', is rigourously held, by classic Thelemic mechanism, and worked upon.
To paraphrase Crowley; " These wild beasts, when trained, will bear Thee well." ( Apologies for poor writing; One is not a Teacher.)
This should be apparent to students of Crowley's work; yet this is a public site, it would seem careless, not to reinforce Kuniggety's words, lest some people do not recognise the need to cleanse, and hold steady the mind, prior to working.
One hopes this does clarify the matter; albeit merely a personal viewpoint.
Love Under Will!


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