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What roles do prophets play in world history?


 Anonymous
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I'm taking a course in world history this fall and need help with the fourth assignment (out of 6). We are currently working on the period 1750-1914. These are that essay options to choose between:

Option A - Explain and evaluate how the industrial revolution changed global commerce.
Option B - How did the Qing, Ottoman, Mughal and Russian dynasties respond to nineteenth-century transformations?
Option C - What roles do prophets play in world history?

My initial reaction was that I have to write option C and I saw myself composing a great text from an Ippsissimus perspective. Then I started thinking what arguments I should build the essay on and realized how much research I have to make.

I'm not going to write option A because that over lapses with assignment 3 and I don’t want to write the same essay again. Option B is a good one since I wrote the first three essays on topics about "the west" and writing at least one essay on "the east" might give proper balance.

So here we are. If you have time maybe you could point me in the direction of where I can obtain more information on what Magick says about what a prophet is and what role they play in world history.


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Azidonis
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Have you tried The Heart of the Master?
The intro to Book 4 also has a piece on this.
There are many others...


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Nomad
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Two excellent suggestions. To which I would add Liber Aleph, Ch's 69 thru 75... http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-of-wisdom-or-folly/tbwf2.html


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Shiva
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"nevyn93" wrote:
... I saw myself composing a great text from an Ippsissimus perspective.

🙂 Ha    😀 Ha    😛 Ha

"nevyn93" wrote:
If you have time maybe you could point me in the direction of where I can obtain more information on what Magick says about what a prophet is and what role they play in world history.

Wait a minute here!  You're asking US to help YOU with your homework?

THIS is what the digital age and forums have come down to?

For assistance, I recommend that you read the complete works of Lao Tze, Buddha, Moshe, Mohammed and Therion. You can leave out the Osirian stuff as it has been manipulated.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 52 years ago
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Ohh... and here I was hoping for a chapter in a book I could copy and paste from.... seriously though just some pointers in a productive direction 🙂

I sat down today and started writing a draft. I have until next Sunday before the deadline. The essays should be 750 words +-10% so the following is 2/5 lenghtwise.

Assignment 4, Option C:
What roles do prophets play in world history?

To be able to understand this question at a deeper level one needs to grasp that advances in human life, light, love and liberty towards eco-utopian-ism is made possible through great men and women who are masters of their discipline. Some of them are scientists like Newton, Einstein or Darwin, some of them are artists like Shakespeare or Tolkien, some of them are political leaders like Napoleon, Churchill or Abraham Lincoln and some of them are prophets like Buddha, Mohammed, Christ or Confucius. These great men and women create culture, technology and perspectives that advances our understanding about our place in the universe and sets new standards for those that come after them. It should be added here that many leaps in greatness are made through teamwork (like for example the moon landing) or by invisible masters pulling the strings behind the scenes. This is how it has always been.

The classical definition of a prophet is a person who have been in contact with some form of deity and serve as a intermediary in delivering its message to the people. Very common is that the prophet goes away from society and return from a mysterious experience with new ideas of what the world should look like. Examples of this is Jesus and Mohammed. But the definition of a prophet can also include charismatic people with prophetic visions of a better world like Hong Xiuquan who inspired the masses to revolt in the Taiping rebellion in China in the 1850'ties and 60'ties promising peasants economical and social justice. It can also be leaders without deity involved. Examples of this from the lectures and textbook is Karl Marx who argued that the inequality of capitalism would lead to a proletarian revolution and socialism and had a profound impact on world history even though it didn't exactly turn out like he had prophesied.


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Azidonis
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"nevyn93" wrote:
Very common is that the prophet goes away from society and return from a mysterious experience with new ideas of what the world should look like.

...what the world "should" look like? I thought you were capable of "an Ipsissimus perspective".

"nevyn93" wrote:
Examples of this from the lectures and textbook is Karl Marx who argued that the inequality of capitalism would lead to a proletarian revolution and socialism and had a profound impact on world history even though it didn't exactly turn out like he had prophesied.

The magic eight ball says we may be heading in such a direction still.

Overall, I think your school teacher will find the 750 words acceptable.


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 Anonymous
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Maybe I was unclear. I meant to say that it's 2/5 ready and I have a week to finish it. Wanted to get the ball rolling.

Still looking for more arguments.


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Azidonis
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"nevyn93" wrote:
Maybe I was unclear. I meant to say that it's 2/5 ready and I have a week to finish it. Wanted to get the ball rolling.

Still looking for more arguments.

The 311 words you have contains plenty of arguments. In my opinion, you would do well to formulate a decent thesis out of them, and address each of the similarities and differences in separate paragraphs. If done right, such a task would go well over 750 words, as documents like The Heart of the Master have shown. Enough information on the subject exists to cause you more worries about shortening arguments than expanding them.

Best of luck.


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 Anonymous
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I personally probably would end the essay with these words borrowed from Book 4 intro:

"Book 4" wrote:
Perhaps these "great" men are the failures of humanity; perhaps it would be better to say nothing; perhaps only an unbalanced mind would wish to alter anything or believe in the possibility of altering anything; but there are those who think existence even in heaven intolerable so long as there is one single being who does not share that joy

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Markus
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"Book 4" wrote:
perhaps only an unbalanced mind would wish to alter anything or believe in the possibility of altering anything; ...

This is an excellent quote, ayino, and rather close to the mark, I believe! The idea of the "unbalanced mind" is often considered to be madness - and rightly so. The German word for "mad" - verrückt - literally means "displaced", "moved onto a different location". Similarly, the Spanish loco, possibly from "location", suggests much the same: a person, who has moved on, who has left "this particular world" behind him, and thus sees what is new, and is consequentially considered mad as a March hare. And that is what a prophet, essentially, is.

Markus


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 Anonymous
Joined: 52 years ago
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"Markus" wrote:
Similarly, the Spanish loco, possibly from "location", suggests much the same: a person, who has moved on, who has left "this particular world" behind him, and thus sees what is new, and is consequentially considered mad as a March hare. And that is what a prophet, essentially, is.

Markus

LAM is the Tibetan word for Way or Path, and LAMA is He who Goeth, the specific title of the Gods of Egypt, the Treader of the Path, in Buddhistic phraseology

Same way the Finnish shamans/wise men were called by the name of 'Tietäjä' ( Tie =Road ) 'Tietäjä' ( = He who walks the Road/Knows the road )
[ Tietäjä is traditionally translated/understood in Finnish as "Knower/One who knows", but in my opinion, it has it's etymological origins in the word "Tie"(=Road) and even the modern finnish word for 'knowledge' is also called 'tieto' ]

Even though it might be nothing more than a coincidence, one can almost see some universal 'doctrine' behind the etymotology of words that mean Fool, Madman, Matto, Loco etc. in every language. Same way how the idea of "Road" or "Tao" or "Path" is very universal 🙂


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Azidonis
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"ayino" wrote:
"Markus" wrote:
Similarly, the Spanish loco, possibly from "location", suggests much the same: a person, who has moved on, who has left "this particular world" behind him, and thus sees what is new, and is consequentially considered mad as a March hare. And that is what a prophet, essentially, is.

Markus

LAM is the Tibetan word for Way or Path, and LAMA is He who Goeth, the specific title of the Gods of Egypt, the Treader of the Path, in Buddhistic phraseology

Same way the Finnish shamans/wise men were called by the name of 'Tietäjä' ( Tie =Road ) 'Tietäjä' ( = He who walks the Road/Knows the road )
[ Tietäjä is traditionally translated/understood in Finnish as "Knower/One who knows", but in my opinion, it has it's etymological origins in the word "Tie"(=Road) and even the modern finnish word for 'knowledge' is also called 'tieto' ]

Even though it might be nothing more than a coincidence, one can almost see some universal 'doctrine' behind the etymotology of words that mean Fool, Madman, Matto, Loco etc. in every language. Same way how the idea of "Road" or "Tao" or "Path" is very universal 🙂

In Sanskrit, I can only find the following meaning: lam "to delight in, sport, enjoy sexually".
I was unable to find its meaning in Pali.

In Tibetan, I found its meaning as thus:

lam

1) path, road, way; 2) way of doing; 3) tradition, custom; 4) sphere/ place of; 5) ?/ or [IW]

lam - (spiritual) path; path aspect (of); process [RB]

lam - 1) path, road, way; 2) way of doing; 3) tradition, custom; 4) sphere/ place of; 5) ?/ or [for words ending in LA] [IW]

lam - 1) the Path, path, way, road, [marga]; (spiritual) path; path aspect; path. road. 2) 13th of the {'phags pa'i bden pa bzhi rnam pa bcu drug tu phye ba} among the 16 aspects of the four noble truths: Def. by Jamgön Kongtrül: {bsgrubs pas chos kyi dbyings de kho na'i don 'tshol zhing rtogs par byed pa'i mtshan nyid can} 3) {lugs} system; 4) vivid, see also {lam me ba} [ry]

lam - Paths. The five paths or stages on the way to enlightenment: the path of accumulation, joining, seeing, cultivation, and no more learning. They can be explained differently according to each of the three vehicles [ry]

lam - territory, pathway, course, method, pass, resource, road, route, track, via, systematic way, way, individual growth, path to the cessation of suffering, unfolding of one's nature, SA tshogs lam, sbyor lam, mthong lam, sgom lam, mi slob, passage, space travelled over, distance travelled over, journey, manner of acting to obtain a certain end, or after "l", practice tradition, or [JV]

lam - 1) path [= gol sa, bgrod bya, 'gom bya, 'gro bya, rgyu ba'i sa, 'jug bya, shul lam]; 2) way of doing; 3) tradition, custom; 4) sphere/ place of [rmi lam,//mig lam,//gri lam,//lnga lam,//bar lam] [IW]
___________

Lumping all of Buddhism into one basket is just asking for trouble. So, lam may be used in Vajrayana [Tibetan] Buddhism in some ways, but that says nothing for Theravada and Mahayana schools.


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 Anonymous
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I got the quote from Crowley's preface to Blavatsky's The Voice Of The Silence/Liber LXXI, I really have no idea is it even correct or not.


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Azidonis
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"ayino" wrote:
I got the quote from Crowley's preface to Blavatsky's The Voice Of The Silence/Liber LXXI, I really have no idea is it even correct or not.

It's probably correct in Tibetan.

One of the things about Crowley is he was able to see the "Golden Thread" in many systems. One other thing about Crowley is that sometimes he ripped, tore, and mutilated systems to find it, in his attempt to "separate the wheat from the chaff".


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wellreadwellbred
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"nevyn93" wrote:
I'm taking a course in world history this fall and need help with the fourth assignment (out of 6). We are currently working on the period 1750-1914. These are that essay options to choose between: [...] Option C - What roles do prophets play in world history? [...] My initial reaction was that I have to write option C and I saw myself composing a great text from an Ippsissimus perspective. [...] If you have time maybe you could point me in the direction of where I can obtain more information on what Magick says about what a prophet is and what role they play in world history.

I hope this advice helps you getting a good grade:

Please read the chapter "The Beast and the Prophet: Aleister Crowley's Fascination with Joseph Smith" by Massimo Introvigne, in the book Aleister Crowley and Western Esotericism, Edited by Henrik Bogdan and Martin P Starr. You can read all of this chapter for free on Google Books.

This site provides more information on this high quality book in the following hyperlink: http://www.lashtal.com/portal/news/aleister-crowley/2702-aleister-crowley-and-western-esotericism.html

If you do not want do the hard work of "composing a great text from an Ippsissimus perspective", and want Aleister crowley's authoritative and official own words on what role The Book of the Law - which describes him as a prophet - is to play in history, please read the following:

Chapter 7, "Remarks on the method of receiving Liber Legis, on the Conditions prevailing at the time of the writing, and on certain technical difficulties connected with the Literary form of the Book.", and chapter 8, "Summary of the Case", both contained in Aleister crowley's book The Equinox of the Gods. The Equinox of the Gods can be found for free online on the Net.

Good luck with your essay.


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 Anonymous
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Thank you for all the good suggestions but I ended up writing it without much esoterism. I love the process of sitting down, opening the gates to your subconscious and then evaluate the results. Of course there are times for error and times for stepping up and not failing.

The essay is not as good as i thought I could make it - only "the best I can do today".

(ohh... it's less then a month left until it starts now...)

Assignment 4, Option C:
What roles do prophets play in world history?

To be able to understand this question at a deeper level one needs to grasp that advances in human life, light, love and liberty towards eco-utopian-ism is made possible through great men and women who are masters of their discipline. Some of them are scientists like Newton, Einstein or Darwin, some of them are artists like Shakespeare or Tolkien, some of them are political leaders like Napoleon, Churchill or Abraham Lincoln and some of them are prophets like Buddha, Mohammed, Christ or Confucius. These great men and women create culture, technology and perspectives that advances our understanding about our place in the universe and sets new standards for those that come after them. It should be added here that many leaps in greatness are made through teamwork (like for example the moon landing) or by invisible masters pulling the strings behind the scenes.

The classical definition of a prophet is a person who have been in contact with some form of deity and serve as a intermediary in delivering its message to the people. Very common is that the prophet goes away from society and return from a mysterious experience with new ideas of what the world should look like. Examples of this is Jesus and Mohammed. Prophets are often born from misery and work with the minds of their followers inspiring them to manifest their visions often compelling the ruling elites to adjust the way they govern. There are major and minor prophets and the definition extends beyond individuals who initiated world religions and can also include charismatic leaders who inflame the hearths of men or writers with prophetic visions who push their readers to new heights. We will now take a look at three examples of prophets from the nineteenth century from different parts of the world and what they accomplished.

Hong Xiuquan was born in 1813 in southern China and had in his mid 20'ties dreams about being a “Chinese Son of God” who's mission was to replace Confucianism with Christianity in China. He studied diligently, developed his revolutionary theory and wrote many books and by the end of the 1840'ties he had assembled a mass of followers who called themselves “God Worshipers”. The Qing government sent a force to quell the uprising but was defeated and in 1851 the “Heavenly Kingdom of Transcendent Peace” was declared. Hong would inspire the masses to revolt in the Taiping rebellion in the 1850'ties and 60'ties promising peasants economical and social justice and women more equality. The Qing suppressed the rebellion in 1864 and its unclear if Hong died from suicide or illness. Although the movement was defeated it inspired later generations. #1

In Europe in the Restoration period after the Napoleonic wars there emerged many radicals with alternative visions. Prophets of all stripes – political, social, cultural and religious. Most influential of these and an example of a prophet without deity is the German Karl Marx who is considered one of the most important thinkers of the millennium. He lifted up “exploitation” as an economic concept and argued that the inequality of capitalism would lead to a proletarian revolution and socialism. He's legacy can be seen in world politics and as one of the architects of the modern age. He has influenced disciplines such as sociological theory, economics, anthropology, media studies, psychology and philosophy. He had a profound impact on world history even though it didn't exactly turn out like he had prophesied. #2

In North America the newly independent United States expanded westward and the territorial growth led to dispossession of hundreds of Indian tribes into reservations. Despair, bitterness and alcoholism was widespread and the Indians were divided. Like other native people threatened by imperial expansion many Indians dreamed of a world restored to their old customs and rites and in this prerequisite many prophets arose. One of these was the Paiute Indian named Wovoka who had prophetic dreams and founded the “Ghost Dance”-movement that preached living harmoniously, shunning white ways and practicing non-violence. Many proclaimed him the red mans messiah and Wovoka’s message inspired new hope that the good life would be restored, colonialism be undone and the buffalo would return. In 1890 at a place called Wounded Knee Wovoka's “Ghost Dancers” were massacred by the US army. He lived quietly and died in 1932. #3

I believe that most of the prophets that have walked our earth were decent fellow beings but that some of them clearly must have been psychopaths. Hong for example ordered ethnic cleansing of men, women and children of wrong ethnicity. Some of them were probably businessmen capitalizing on their followers for money and fame but most of them were pure in heart and vision. It is the rats that enslave good men in the name of prophets that should be smoked out from where they are hiding.

#1 "Worlds Together Worlds Apart, Robert Tignor et al" pp.608-612 and Wikipedia(Hong_Xiuquan)
#2 "Worlds Together Worlds Apart, Robert Tignor et al" pp.612-618 and Wikipedia(Karl_Marx)
#3 "Worlds Together Worlds Apart, Robert Tignor et al" pp.599-600 and Wikipedia(Wovoka)


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Azidonis
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If you are allowed to use Wikipedia for your college papers, please let me know which college you are attending so I can remind people not to attend it.

Oh, and a couple grammatical errors exist in the essay.

No comment on the actual content.


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Markus
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The essay is, considering it's length, not bad at all. However, you do realise that Wikipedia is to encyclopediasm what Arnold Schwarzenegger is to acting, yes?

Markus

p.s. If I were dean at a college, and a student quoted Wikipedia, I'd expell him!


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Azidonis
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"Markus" wrote:
The essay is, considering it's length, not bad at all. However, you do realise that Wikipedia is to encyclopediasm what Arnold Schwarzenegger is to acting, yes?

Markus

p.s. If I were dean at a college, and a student quoted Wikipedia, I'd expell him!

Wikipedia was simply not allowed at my college. I don't know about others...

It feels odd even using it on these forums. 🙂


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Shiva
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Well, I use Wikipedia all the time - but I almost always end up editing what's posted there. That is, I edit my version, but I usually leave the online version as it is. It's close enough, most of the time, for government work. You may choose which government.


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