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It's time put the fairy-tales down...

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newneubergOuch2
(@newneubergouch2)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 294
 

I started reading this a few days ago.

Not far in so far to really comment.

i did have fun with the previous book and laying ‘the line’ on an old (digital) map of Cairo and seeing the different places it matched etc


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gurugeorge
(@gurugeorge)
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@ignant666 

Startlement is used in some Tibetan stuff, especially Dzogchen.  One commonly used technique or trick is to get into a calm state (parasympathetic nervous system activation) and then randomly and with great vigour (from the gut) shout "Phat!" (pronounced "Pet").  

Difficult to see how you can surprise yourself, that's probably more of an advanced technique; but a teacher sitting with you doing it out of the blue might be quite effective. (Obvious analogy with some of the Zen shouting.)

The idea is that in the moment of startlement, just before the inrush of common-track thoughts there's a moment of stillness, a gap, and in that gap one might discover or notice for the first time, that element or aspect of one's being which is pure awareness. 

It's not a mystical experience as such really, more like a foot in the door, very simple and direct, and a different angle of approach from the usual "neti neti" (the process of elimination as to what one is), or the more analytical philosophical approaches (e.g. "Is it true that you are a limited being?")


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

The idea is that in the moment of startlement, just before the inrush of common-track thoughts there's a moment of stillness, a gap, and in that gap one might discover or notice for the first time, that element or aspect of one's being which is pure awareness.

Now we're getting somewhere. Can you imagine? Some folks are talking about using that "Pure Land" state in order to do something. The question arises, in relation to this thread, as to how the person retains their desire, or will, or intent, as they lose their sense of separation along with such creative thoughts?

I believe it goes like this: Formulate the thoughtform (for the creative event, which is advertised as being potentially catastrophic, so be careful). Throw it into the black hole as you black out. The black hole will then eject you into your new reality ... sometime ... or not. If not, you have died.

 


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gurugeorge
(@gurugeorge)
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Posted by: @shiva

The question arises, in relation to this thread, as to how the person retains their desire, or will, or intent, as they lose their sense of separation along with such creative thoughts?

I think classically (so to speak 🙂 ), the resolution would be that one's Will, like one's thoughts, is a cosmic, impersonal phenomenon. 

In terms of thoughts, that ek-stasis (standing apart from and observing one's thoughts not as "my thoughts" but as impersonal phenomena, like wild geese in the sky) is the very loss of sense of self. 

I think the phenomenon is analogous with Will, or True Will.  The flood of creative enthusiasm flowing from within out into the world is also an impersonal, cosmic phenomenon.


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