Ordered the Cornelius book. Sounds like some good detailed (c)OTO/"duplex" A.'. A.'. dirt from one in a position to know.
Jerry was an VIII* OTO under McMurtry, and he left under H.B., saying, "This is not the OTO I joined." He has also taken the 9=2 appellation. His work is always high level and revelatory.
Yes sounds like it's worth reading. Hard to keep track of all the infighting lawsuits and backstabbing. I'm sure there is so much more that doesn't get reported. AC gets released from copyright prison soon/already I guess (I forget the dates) so perhaps these folks won't matter much any more?
Organizations such as these are a royal pain in the ass. My experience was no different at D.O.M.E. I guess to feel important people need to have other people to manipulate or control?
I'm gonna order a copy soon.
If your experience is like mine, you may be reading this book by the weekend. Fastest shipping and delivery I've experienced for ANY publication!
It even reached Germany in 3 days!
If it turns out that Crowley (as RTC proposes) crafted it so that he, himself, could solve it, we're not dealing with a Preternatural Intelligence who can show
Did I miss something (I might) or did AC not confess that he never could solve the cyphers? How could it turn out that he could solve it himself, if he didn't?
Love=Law
Lutz
How could it turn out that he could solve it himself, if he didn't?
I was alluding to the theory put forth in RTC's last book in which Crowley himself writes the riddle (as part of his power grab plan) so that its solution, divined by himself, will reveal and grant him the authority he craves. But this was in line with a storyline where Crowley is being given a copy of the book by a mysterious Adept, I think. All of this is before AC changes gears and scraps his original plan. The comes the Reception Myth etc. When the game changes, Crowley can no longer be the solver of the riddle (for his position in relation to the book has changed and been upgraded), nor can its solution be contained therein as originally planned (which, if solved, would mess with Plan B). So he goes in to change it and moves on with the new plan.
This is what I'm recalling from eLGMOR which I don't have to hand at the moment. Perhaps later I can find my copy and look for the passages. But I think you also have a copy.
To be clear, I was alluding to RTC's storyline from eLGMOR which I've hopefully conveyed correctly. If not, the Thrice Magicole One may again join us to offer correction.
Wrapped in seedy weekly newspapers from Berkeley California
That would have been fun. Alas, my copy was encased in bubble wrap. 🙂
@kidneyhawk Thank you very much for the clarification. Sometimes (as with Paul Toner before) I seem to cannot distinguish if someone is talking "facts" or quoting RTC's theories.
Love=Law
Lutz
seedy weekly newspapers
Sadly, the "seedy weekly newspapers" are mostly no more.
Various anti-sex trafficking laws have made the personals ads and prostitution ads that funded the "alternative press" /"underground press" since the '60s no longer profitable. Competition from online sites had already hit them hard. Vermont's Seven Days is a rare (and very watered down) survivor of that era.
Wrapped in seedy weekly newspapers from Berkeley California
Jerry recently moved to Arizona, if someone is interested in this kind of info.
Yes it became an anticipated given in purchasing some of the Cornelius-es's (Jerry and Erica's) work over the years, and I would always seem to get the sections relating to marijuana, massage and music, the three M's ....no they were not wrapping their work in virtuous words, but the plaid of color advertising mixed with personal ads relative to various sports of transgressions and the like...Seven Days is a vestige of an era, now perkily staid, but with enough quirk to keep things interesting and is Vermont's largest paper, is free, and is perfect for starting fires...and thus beats bubblewrap!
Erica Cornelius is a tour de force herself with many many essays, where she and Jerry would seem to hold the present Thelemic dynamic duo crown with their bed of writing prolificness...though regarding Erica's "On Getting a Bullshit Meter" while fine in itself was not the best outlay...of course the word "On" is in the title of that book, and word is the big word, two letters big punch, and seems to be a big key in what McMurtry taught and learned from AC....and what Mr. Cornelius has explored in various outings...
is perfect for starting fires
You know what else is good for starting fires?
Hand sanitizer, now often also free from various places. Shit is like napalm.
To try to keep things OT, another thing that is good for starting fires is RTC's literary oeuvre.
Burning Glamour or is it Glamor.....an important tasks for the initiate!
& thanks for the hand sanitizer napalm tip!
AC gets released from copyright prison soon/already I guess (I forget the dates)
All previously published AC works are now in the Public Domain. You can print any of that stuff and the squad of attorneys will not chase you through the jungles of Thailand - nor Burma, too. The date does not matter - it is in the past.
Then there's the unpublished AC works. Stuff that was writ but never got printed. The (c)OTO still holds the (c) to this secret cache. You can probably make it to "the other shore" without reading what may never be read.
Burning Glamour or is it Glamor
I struggled with this one, but it seems like this is one of the "-or" words that uses the British-English spelling of "-our." Thus, glamour is acceptable in both Brit-spell and Ameri-lingo.
Our Woodchuck Comrade was making a joke about RTC's eLGMOR cypher "solution", which included the phrase "A BEGLAMOR".
"Beglamour", like its "parent word" "glamour" is one of the few words ending in "-our" that is never, ever spelled "beglamor" in American English. And never ever ever in British English, the kind AC spoke.
Of course, "Aiwass" was "Lucky Hamid", the Shepeard's Annex room-service waiter, an Egyptian, so he can be forgiven these spelling errors in crafting a cryptogram in what was, after all, a second language.
Liber L Vel Bogus remains the only book I have ever returned. In that spirit I listened to the podcast. RTC seems nice and funny and a little contrived (if that can even be avoided once you've agreed to and done such a thing in promotion of a product). The interview read like the book in that it was a list of controversial ideas (in the context of the Al revelation) presented without evidence and never challenged. And it's a shame because the premise is a good story and an appealing story and, if it could be proved true, would be simply wonderful. But there is not only an absolute absence of evidence to support RTC's ideas, there is plenty of evidence to prove some of those ideas are blatant lies.
Is this another contender for "Chapter Four?
I'm still curious about this. I've read a lot of received transmissions, but the only one I recall that overtly claims to be the 4th chapter of the BotL is Liber 49. Maybe Neo Liber Legis, Liber 979, and Andy Collins's aborted Inner Book of the Law, in a way. What others are there?
What others are there?
There might be one or more, more. So what? Some folks seem to attach themselves to AC's coat-tails, and they proclaim/pretend to be a follow-up act to AL.
Nothing in this extensionorama seems to stand forth as liberating or practical. I would recommend that all aspring prophets just get on with their own work, and if it happens (in the end) to co-incide with something in AC's work, then a footnote to the coincidence/correlation can be inserted in the published product.
Right now (yesterday/today), the top headline on LAShTAL's home page is "The Cult of Aleister Crowley." That title sums up what I am attempting to imply.
More Hate Crimes?
What others are there?
There might be one or more, more. So what?
"What" is that these things interest me. Like my interest in RTC's, and Amado's, ideas, they may not have immediately practical value to me. In fact, most of the ones I've read have not, but they still do interest me, and I'd like to know if there are any I've missed.
It even reached Germany in 3 days!
Apparently Germany does better than New York with the Cornelii- mine arrives Monday, 5 days from order. Still pretty prompt for a small press.
Will start a thread after i read it, since others have ordered too and can chime in.
"What" is that these things interest me.
Um, I was posing a "so what?" rhetorical question that I answered in my own form of confirmational bias. I would not dissuade you from perusing all manner of theories and claims. My "so what?" is often my form of inquiry into the "A.C. Coat-tail Paradigm," which I consider ...
dishonest / copycatting / virtuous / entertaining
(pick one, or insert your own adjective, pronoun, or noun.
Will start a thread after i read it
Oh, good.
It is interesting how this RTC-initiated thread offered - how many? - three? - posts by RTC, but is has spun off into the most active thread in weeks. I must admit, and perhaps you as well, that RTC has a certain "ignitive" siddhi (not to be confused with "Ignantive"). He causes sleeping posters to come out of their closets, and the Ancient Mysteries are soon revived (such as watermarks, diaries, tinker-toys).
Now, right now, as to the new movement around JC's New Inquisition, folks are ordering the New Revelation, and while waiting for it to arrive by Mercury Express, they have been polishing their pitchforks and adding pitch to their torches. I sense a massive movement pointed toward OHO's house.
But where is it? The last I heard, it was in Germany (according to Wikipedia, which can be wobbly).
Returning to the topical topic: RTC is invited to drop in - if he wants to keep this thread on-RTC-topic. Because, presently, JC is stealing the thunder.
Um, I was posing a "so what?" rhetorical question that I answered in my own form of confirmational bias. I would not dissuade you from perusing all manner of theories and claims. My "so what?" is often my form of inquiry into the "A.C. Coat-tail Paradigm," which I consider ...
I understand that, and I've seen received transmissions that seem like nothing but ego boost. Still, some have had passages that I've found inspiration in, and I don't think that the potential for revelation and development ended with Crowley. There's still room for heresy, and it all starts as UPG. 😉
It is interesting how this RTC-initiated thread offered - how many? - three? - posts by RTC, but is has spun off into the most active thread in weeks
Three pages of posts, and it's been an interesting thread, too! Even the divergences. I find it funny how often I've found Amado mentioned as a comparison in discussions on RTC since I started reading more after this thread started.
Now, right now, as to the new movement around JC's New Inquisition, folks are ordering the New Revelation, and while waiting for it to arrive by Mercury Express, they have been polishing their pitchforks and adding pitch to their torches. I sense a massive movement pointed toward OHO's house.
Which I also find interesting, and wonder what new information could come out of that.
But where is it? The last I heard, it was in Germany (according to Wikipedia, which can be wobbly).
The description of the Cornelius book said "And numerous ex-Mottaties like David L. Bersson came out of hiding causing Breeze to flee America to Europe where he remains hidden to this day? "
The description of the Cornelius book said "And numerous ex-Mottaties like David L. Bersson came out of hiding causing Breeze to flee America to Europe where he remains hidden to this day? "
It's complicated, as usual. It's a story in itself that can rival any version of The Reception Tale, Cairo, 1902-1906 ( a slippery sliding calendar).
The Motta Maneuver, whereby Marcello Motta (of Brazil), who took an Oath of Probationer under Saturnus-Germer), decided he was the Magical Heir, and he sued the McM OTO in federal court for the legal (OTO) crown ... and lost. He was never a member of any OTO grade. His sanity has been examined from several angles and he has been found wanting (both premortem and postmortem).
Now earlier, there were these four horsemen who followed the Motta line. But Motta, being a paranoid alcoholic, accused them (his staunchest supporters) of plotting to murder him, and expelled them from the (his version) of the A.'.A.'., where he was The Master of The Temple - then he performed magic to curse (or maybe kill) them.
Well, the 4 horsemen, who did not die, were now masterless samurai, so they hung around McM - who apparently took them in. After McM died, the (partly inept and hardly worthy of the grade) IX* Council elected one of the horsemen as the new OHO (even though he had but the IV* - go figure).
So the 4 Horsemen rose into power, and they even formed an Inner College of the A.'.A.'.. Well, 3 of them did - the 4th had a heroin problem. But then one of them detected treachery and black-heartedness, and he quit. He tells me things from time to time.
Of the other three, one is now the OHO of the (legal) OTO. Mr Gunther is head of the "one true" A.'.A.'. (and the rest of us are fakirs), and Mr Wasserman died not long ago.
Anyway, the bottom line is that 2 out of 4 horsemen of the Motta Manifestation are now conjoined as heads of both the visible and invisible foundational orgs of Thelema - and they work together in a bond of "duplexity."
The Breeze Wikipedia article has changed (greatly) since I last read it. There is no longer a mention of him having moved to Germany. You (anyone) must read it for yourself - if you are interested in such things ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Breeze
I'm still curious about this. I've read a lot of received transmissions, but the only one I recall that overtly claims to be the 4th chapter of the BotL is Liber 49. Maybe Neo Liber Legis, Liber 979, and Andy Collins's aborted Inner Book of the Law, in a way. What others are there?
I wrote one once. It was called “Liber O.I.T.” Utterly lost to history now. Unless...there WAS a member of the O.T.O. who I sent a copy to. This was a long time ago when I was a youngster and passionately pursuing my discovery and embrace of Thelema. At that time, I had no idea who Kenneth Grant even was. Without an internet at my disposal and armed only with envelopes, stamps and addresses from the backs of books, I thought the “Caliphate” was the only game in town. But they weren't in MY town. I had to settle with being an “Associate Member,” receiving copies of The Magical Link in the mail and occasional letters from Bill Heidrick. I would eventually become a member of the Freemasons for lack of a local OTO group.
As I look back, I can recall something of my mindset when I wrote my “Liber.” It was contrived and derivative and imitative. Really, an embarrassment. But, perhaps, a necessary step along the Way. Artists and Musicians often begin by trying to BE their heroes or sources of inspiration. Eventually, they come into their own and their own unique and authentic flame comes flaring to the surface.
But this wasn't simply an issue of me imitating a poet (or Prophet) I admired. There was a bristling and beckoning mystique to Liber AL which I was utterly taken in by. RTC speaks to this in his interview (the initial topic of our thread). He mentions how people sense something about Crowley which is so powerful and captivating it leads them to spend exorbitant amounts of money on his awful art or even a short letter...anything to come into contact with the fire they sense within this unique figure. This impulse toward osmosis may be seen all about us with regards to how people sense something they lack within themselves in another-and want to make contact (celebrity worship, for example, which includes the “Royals,” Political Figures etc).
Well, I can state honestly that I was desiring to be in the center of the cyclone, to be in a room in Cairo when a certain PRETERNATURAL BEING manifested on the earth plane. This reflects my lifetime of needing to KNOW and not simply “Believe.”
Fast forward and my own cynicism with regards to the “Reception Myth” has been expressed in a variety of ways in a variety of venues. But my longing and aim for that liminal space has only increased and propelled me into further adventures and misadventures over the years.
In terms of writing, received texts, mediumship and so forth, Liber AL is certainly no longer my overshadowing context. I don't need to fixate on making a small splash by unlocking some bit of minutia in the text-or playing a role in deference to its “authority.” With my silly little “Liber,” I felt I was connecting into the text and drawing the Current which informed it into my own direct experience. That desire is all good and fine-but it is also something which had to be really put through the fire to emerge in pure(r) form.
There is the oft quoted adage about killing Buddha on the road. I once reflected on this and thought:
If we have decided to truly “kill the Buddha,” then we have already done so. Having wholly and fully determined to draw the blade across his throat, his throat is already slit (just as we, having incarnated into our present flesh-forms are already dead). My point? Having recognized this and understood, we may now sit down and just have a cup of coffee with our friend.
This is my angle into Liber AL. In fact, it is my angle into Crowley, himself. I have a pal who disdains AC as a drug-addled, abusive loser. He sees absolutely nothing whatsoever redeemable about Crowley. Nothing. So I become an apologist for The Beast. On the flip, I've got a delicatessen meat slicer for those who prattle on about the “Prophet” and what a wonderful Messiah Crowley was.
these things interest me.
And they interest me, also. And we don't need to justify our interests to anyone. I am researching a lot of fringe UFO cult stuff at present. Someone could come along and say it's all bollocks and why waste my time? That "someone" can piss off. Our attractions and interests aren't about conforming to some established and authoritative measure of "merit." This isn't some "Old Aeon" showdown between Truth and Falsehood. It's about the Art-Soul. Hitler once remarked that those who paint the grass blue and the sky green ought to be castrated. This embodies the horrid Spirit of Restriction. I think some people are surprised when they view Hitler's art. It is not sinister and it is technically accomplished. But it is, otherwise, utterly mediocre. The standard he set (or that which was set upon him) is without Soul. He is as Muzak compared to James Brown.
But there IS a very real and very sinister Tyranny of "Muzak."
Posted by:
Will start a thread after i read it
Oh, good.
This will immediately become what Shiva calls a "Hot Zone." And it will be all the better for the life of the forums because of it.
Thanks for your post! Your narrative is important and one I resonate with, and through what you have described speaks to an alchemical process of challenge, initiation; of sincere yearning and of self reflective honesty....and death had already died!
Rather than deride such aspirations and identifications, as is easy to do, there is a compassion in recognition of the lila you have taken through to its climax and can be likened to having always had the ruby slippers...but now tread barefoot and not hurting the little flowers!
Indeed the meat slicer is the proper metaphor, a modern sword, properly sharpened through work and experience....ready to deal with the baloney and whatever salami might dash across the skies....
Yes, lets enjoy a cup of coffee, fire roasted
Here is a tip to the waiter!
93
HG
As usual, a great post. And as usual, any muttering from RTC triggers this forum. Why is that? Because in my opinion RTC's big mistake was to let it become what you so corteously don't acknowledge: "[...] some "Old Aeon" showdown between Truth and Falsehood." It is - and he says so many times - exactly this: it's RTC's showdown to "destroy" Crowley. I myself, a little (172cm) armchair AC collector in Germany, have become in his eyes the spearhead of the cOTO although I have no connections with them at all. Why? Because I did not accept the "facts" (these are important quotation marks) RTC delivered, and I even helped him delivering them. Or to be precise, he actually did not deliver. Eight years ago this forum (including its webmaster) was prepared for the final nail in AC's coffin, when RTC claimed that the paper on which Liber L was written simply did not exist in 1904. Alas, that claim was never proved, but RTC depicted a very badly faked watermark in his book to "prove" it. He is out to destroy Crowley (be my guest, I have no problem with that) but he doesn't deliver. His efforts thereafter to do so in his eLGMOR theory were simply ridiculous and bordered on being mentally unstable (I am nice here). And yet, you - and we here - are still taking him seriously. And I simply don't know why: his theories about the Cairo myth were not new, his findings were more or less all discussed on this forum before, and please let us not forget that he milked Crowley for years with his "Naughty Nun" publications - and I mention that just because you mentioned him ridiculing people that "spend exorbitant amounts of money on his awful art or even a short letter" - that was his business scheme. Yes, that exactly was his business for years. And then he participated on a forum that was in fact known for its skepticism towards the "official" reading. He was welcome. But he chose to be "right". He chose to be the one who knows and proves it. He failed bitterly. It seems (to me) that now he has taken the path of "forget proof, I will show you what AC found out but did wrong - really! - promised!" At least he hasn't have to provide proof now, if we don't get it is all our fault. Whatever will follow, we are promised a vehicle that proves the supernatural. I don't know how he will succeed, but it is a big claim again. And whatever good his questions have done, he (in my view) simply ruined it by his agenda to destroy Crowley. Now I am here waiting for his next book that will prove the existence of the supernatural, the existence of a current Crowley merely touched but misinterpreted, and what can I say? I think he will fail again. Not because he is wrong, but his motivation is "wrong". So forgive me if I am over that moment to grant him anything.
Love=Law
Lutz
I ... have become in his eyes the spearhead of the cOTO although I have no connections with them at all. Why?
Dear Spearhead (cOTO): Sir! The OTO is a serious and secret order. Says so in the docs. Please cease and desist in your efforts to reveal The Hidden Mysteries. If you do not mend your ways, like Crowley, you will end up in court.
... if we don't get it - {it] is all our fault.
This is true, and always has been so. Accepting personal responsibility for everything perceived results in the shortest path - No, the path doesn't actually get shorter, but one goes faster. Anyway, recognizing error or illusion or bad logic is part of "getting it."
So forgive me if I am over that moment to grant him anything.
Of course. All sins and epiphanies are forgiven and forgotten for one who accepts their own karmic vision,. There is no need to Grant anything, and you really show no signs of being a Breeze,
If I remember correctly, which is a best-case scenario, you worked hardly (not hardly worked) on poking about in years, stationary companies, watermarks, and participated in discussions with several other experts in Crowley tomfoolery ... and the consensus reality emerged that it was not possible to link a series of dots that "proved" AL was writ at some timer other than '04.
Somehow, you managed to convey this reality (?) to RTC who, of course, immediately (through gnosis and logic) detected or determined that you were the chosen knight of The Black Lodge, sent to thwart his takeover of Thelema as The MagiCole Hair.
I don't remember about the mental stability issues. I clashed furiously with him for several days/rounds. Finally, in order to retain what's left of my sanity, I bowed out of the combat. It is my professional opinion that nobody can beat him in philosophical combat, because he has one very powerful siddhi: If anyone gets him down in a corner, and flashes true research on his (mental) screen, he will disappear!
I swear this is true, and most of you have seen this happen. So what does this tell you? Based on this remarkable siddhi, I recommend that you (anyone) exercise the faculty of mental discrimination between reality and distortion. Sure, if you can exercise the patience of a [waiter], then you can casually observe any new claims of the Horizon (Horus-zone) of April next.
I wrote one once. It was called “Liber O.I.T.” Utterly lost to history now. Unless...there WAS a member of the O.T.O. who I sent a copy to.
If you ever do find a copy, would you share it?
As I look back, I can recall something of my mindset when I wrote my “Liber.” It was contrived and derivative and imitative. Really, an embarrassment. But, perhaps, a necessary step along the Way.
I think that's necessary for everyone. You imitate until you find your own way from there. And you do embarrassing things. And moving past them is a necessary step, though so many things are embarrassing in retrospect, even those that seemed brilliant at the time.
But my longing and aim for that liminal space has only increased and propelled me into further adventures and misadventures over the years.
Our Path beckons us onward, and we must keep moving forward.
I don't need to fixate on making a small splash by unlocking some bit of minutia in the text-or playing a role in deference to its “authority.”
In retrospect, maybe the need to unlock minutiae is a trap along the way. Or a necessary stage in showing the limits of the rational that can help open the way for the transrational.
With my silly little “Liber,” I felt I was connecting into the text and drawing the Current which informed it into my own direct experience. That desire is all good and fine-but it is also something which had to be really put through the fire to emerge in pure(r) form.
Alchemical refinement and higher degrees of sublimation.
There is the oft quoted adage about killing Buddha on the road.
Because we all have to eventually leave our teachers behind in order to become our true selves
I've got a delicatessen meat slicer
This is making me think of my exchange with Shiva on my first thread about maybe not eating brains, and now I'm wondering if it's more like my not having had the chance to yet. Maybe we'll have some "volunteers"? 😉
those who prattle on about the “Prophet” and what a wonderful Messiah Crowley was.
🙄
And they interest me, also. And we don't need to justify our interests to anyone. I am researching a lot of fringe UFO cult stuff at present. Someone could come along and say it's all bollocks and why waste my time? That "someone" can piss off.
UFO cult stuff interests me too! It is about the art-soul. What inspires, and what brings joy. No other purpose is needed beyond that.
And it will be all the better for the life of the forums because of it.
"Spirited debate"
Relative to your interest in "Libers" such as the perhaps permanently lost Liber O.I.T., it so happens that lashtal.com is a repository of sorts and now a thread entitled "Seeking Received Transmissions" hath received today...from @aleisterion
https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/seeing-received-transmissions/paged/2/#post-118721
with a link to the first volume of Exegesis
Some of the artwork rivals @RTC obsessions with a bald headed fellow, but what is the treat with this three hundred and nine page magazine (and free-Thanks!) are the said connections with the Work of Leah Hirsig, Soror Alostrael, and announcements of her magickal daughter....
Katrice, relative to your interest in "transgressive practice", my skimming found on page 48 a reference to a working entitled the "Achilnothuatz Working", aka the "120 Days of Sodomy" ( a number that may interests friends interested in such digits, 0.12) with a Soror Anadra whose name is give elsewhere...so without veiling what some might consider vices, or the glories of a hungry butt or perhaps just a sore butt...but there seems no references to prolapsed roses delivering the talisman of Holy Shit!
But wait,(!)...for I find it very interesting to find a word that is said to be the feminine mirror to Abrahadabra there in those pages that warrants some further reading...or not!
If you ever do find a copy, would you share it?
Probably not. I went on to engage in many more intense mediumistic episodes. THOSE would bring me into that place where I could not deny a Hyper-Psychic Power. I once challenged the "Spirit Present" to demonstrate to me a mathematical proof I was only THINKING of. This proof was Pi. The "Spirit" demonstrated this in three ways. I don't think my youthful imitation of AC has anything to offer over that transmission.
Now I am here waiting for his next book that will prove the existence of the supernatural, the existence of a current Crowley merely touched but misinterpreted, and what can I say? I think he will fail again. Not because he is wrong, but his motivation is "wrong". So forgive me if I am over that moment to grant him anything.
Lutz-
I will say that I recently saw you lambasted on RTC's Facebook page for being some kind of “dogmatist”-which we all know you are not. It got really weird when “Bethsheba” joined the fray to mock you and also to express her disdain for Lashtal as a haven for “dogmatists.” Both accusations are laughable. But it is quite odd as Bethsheba champions the exact opposite of RTC's approach to Liber AL. She sees it as a work of great gematriatic depth and insight...for the “few” (which means HER). RTC sees it as a contrived doc-intended to bolster AC's craven ambition. But she sees RTC as a “seeker” (someone who will become sympathetic to her work) and he sees her as someone who is taking the critic (i.e one LL) to task. But this is wholly disingenuous. RTC is laughing while Bethsheba pounds LL for being outside the pale of her “few and secret” (which, of course, he is, also-but “The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend,” right?).
Might I add that AC wrote THE LAW IS FOR ALL? The butcher, baker and candlestick maker.
Bethsheba's comment re: Lashtal is quite weird. As Shiva recently noted, we are the scum. If we have “Order Affiliations” (I do), we don't bang others over the head with them. We're the outskirts here (with “Mainstreet” being OTO, Inc). The derision doesn't stick. It seems to be a convenient thing to say and skip off without having to (again, Shiva) “enter the Octagon.”
So...the Octagon.
When anything “RTC” sparks comment, there is OPPORTUNITY for many perspectives to take the stage. We can learn and grow (or ”evolve” as RTC-and Hillary Clinton-says) but this doesn't mean that RTC has entered the 8-sided ring.
One of my fave Eminem songs is Survival. It is absolutely brutal. In a culture of Braggadocio, there is a relentless attack upon points of weakness. Eminem is Ultra-Akido here. He takes bullets to the chest like no one would have imagined. And when he doesn't die, he comes back, spitting
them out. It is total Tyler Durden.
This is NOT RTC. He does not play chess or scrabble or fence. When a move comes in which cannot be answered, he vanishes-or worse, he lets “Bethsheba” promote her Bible Code and accepts her as an “ally.”
What was that whole thing about Mystery being the Enemy of Truth?
I'm a fan of paradox, koans and the liminal. But this is not an excuse for movements made in the realm of logic and legality.
RTC said Watermarks proved AL was written after its claimed Reception date of 1904. OK. Curious. Yes. And I do think he has a case in his SPECULATION. But where is Exhibit A-?
He pins this on OTO, Inc. But that's not how the legal system works. We're not guilty until proven innocent. Just haul in the facts and make a case. It's pretty simple.
Richard is going to drop his next bomb on April First. I am very interested in what he issues on this day. But I have been thinking that I ought issue a book on the same day. I have an entirely different account of the AEON and the dates and the players and the means to make the jump into the “Paranormal.”
I don't doubt that he had a very startling experience which pushed him through a membrane (he relates this in his podcast). But he is not the only one who has been shoved through such a membrane. This crazy thing...it is only the BEGINNING.
I would recommend to RTC: remove AC from your life. Altogether. OTO? They don't exist. This is a thought-experiment. No “Book of the Law.” Who cares?
NOW-WHAT is all this Paranormal stuff about?
As usual, my question is NOT “rhetorical.”
We're all going to get a copy of whatever RTC produces next. It will make for some more fun talk on these forums. But that's it. Some fun talk on a dwindling forum (since OTO forbade members from participating-which is kind of a middle finger to all the great work Webmaster Paul has done over the years).
But hey~! No debate! One Spirit and all that!
Eminem (M & M-Mysteria Maxima) is a better model. Head on confrontation. It's how Wittgenstein entered “Logic.” People get all excited over “Oaths of the Abyss” and big shot credentials. But can we take the pummeling blows to the face? And we all know THIS is the real reason why “argument” was forbidden.
Lutz, yes, I have been “courteous.” I have expressed why I am interested and sympathetic. I will also add that were I insulted in the manner that others here have been, I wouldn't be so kind in my replies here.
I have the convenience of being some white and Non-Jewish guy in America who can say that Heidegger may have been “misguided.” Jung was an Anti-Semite? Well, we've ALL got our flaws, wot? And then I get all hyped up on Archetypes. But if it was MY Great Aunt getting raped in the “Joy Division” then I might just be inclined to say “Fuck off, Carl, you stupid bastard cunt!”
What was that comment about “Michael Scaley?” I've got the Beelzebub book on my shelf with the cool RTC image as Frontispiece.
Bite the hand that feeds?
I expect much much MORE from RTC than “kick the anthill” antics.
But-I'm not holding my breath. Nor do I need to. I'm not a baby waiting on some revelation on how to meet dead pets and have a “paranormal experience” in one minute or less.
I LIVE in the Paranormal.
Blake said that True Worship of God was honoring his Gifts in other men (and women). This is because Blake understood the Gnostic Experience of the One Consciousness of the One God who is I AM (and who is the Zone wherefrom we re-enter Timespace as Creative Agents of Change).
RTC would do better to write his own “Book” at this point. Kenenth Grant had the most powerful integration of Crowley here. He wasn't sucked into the maw of “Demon Crowley.” He built Crowley into his own Magical Universe-and then pushed this outward as a gift to those who “come after.”
And I will end my blathering post here with this:
It's OK to say “Sorry.” It's OK to say “I was an asshole.” I certainly have been. I've been an arrogant fool along the Grand Chemin. We can get all twisted up in that teacup. And when we finally blast off from it, we look down and laugh. The sheer absurdity of our drama.
We got all bent over some guy named Crowley and his Aeons and sex and stories of Mysterious Beings named Aiwass and Amalantrah and which “Ordo” was legit and....
...what a load of bloody bollocks.
For real.
I think RTC has a few months to pull together an account of how to escape the matrix. And none of us are losing sleep over this.
Myself, I like the RTC booklets. And I do like RTC himself. I've only ever had nice interactions with him and I do owe him some art for the books he has sent me free of charge. I really WANT the next book to deliver the goods.
But as I said, I feel I should write my own little chapbook and have some fun in this game.
It all begins with a barefoot Christian named John Chapman.
Relative to your interest in "Libers" such as the perhaps permanently lost Liber O.I.T., it so happens that lashtal.com is a repository of sorts and now a thread entitled "Seeking Received Transmissions" hath received today...from @aleisterion
Goodness, what great timing! My magick is mighty! 😉
Some of the artwork rivals @RTC obsessions with a bald headed fellow, but what is the treat with this three hundred and nine page magazine (and free-Thanks!) are the said connections with the Work of Leah Hirsig, Soror Alostrael, and announcements of her magickal daughter...
Oh my! That does get my interest!
Katrice, relative to your interest in "transgressive practice", my skimming found on page 48 a reference to a working entitled the "Achilnothuatz Working", aka the "120 Days of Sodomy"
I shall have to look at that in detail. Of course, the truest of antinomian practices transgress against one's own taboos, not just society's.
But wait,(!)...for I find it very interesting to find a word that is said to be the feminine mirror to Abrahadabra there in those pages that warrants some further reading...or not!
Also very interesting! Ablanathanalba appears in some PGM material, and is popular among modern Setians.
Thank you for these!
Probably not. I went on to engage in many more intense mediumistic episodes. THOSE would bring me into that place where I could not deny a Hyper-Psychic Power. I once challenged the "Spirit Present" to demonstrate to me a mathematical proof I was only THINKING of. This proof was Pi. The "Spirit" demonstrated this in three ways. I don't think my youthful imitation of AC has anything to offer over that transmission.
I completely understand. Thank you.
OTO forbade members from participating [on LAShTAL]
First I've heard of that.
Owner and Editor
LAShTAL
First I've heard of that.
It is true that no one has found a direct "Do not post on lashtal" order", but: We used to have dozens of regular posters who were (c)OTO members. For several years now, we have zero (c)OTO members posting.
That, together with the fact that the (c)OTO definitely does discourage participating in non-(c)OTO online activities/venues, suggests that @kidneyhawk is correct.
There is also the fact that under Breeze/Gunther, the (c)OTO, and the"duplex" ex-Mottaite "A.'. A.'." adhere to a literal interpretation of the Tunis Comment.
Since we discuss the contents of AL all the time here, we are thus a literal "centre of pestilence". Of course they avoid us like the plague they see us as!
Yes time to put the fairy tails down...quite sad if true, but our New York Attorney has issued a fact about the Defendant's interpretation of legal commentary, the Tunis Comment, superseding the law, Liber AL vel Legis, along a literalist interpretation, rather than recognizing it as the paradox it was intended be....a challenge to the adept that can serve to entrap or set free....93!
Cornelius's book should be interesting
Since we discuss the contents of AL all the time here, we are thus a literal "centre of pestilence". Of course they avoid us like the plague they see us as!
The Tunis Comment is just a fairy tale to frighten puerile and inferior minds. Nobody sane takes it seriously, not anyone I've come across anyway. O.T.O. members with whom I've conversed all discussed Liber Legis openly.
The Tunis Comment is just a fairy tale to frighten puerile and inferior minds.
Or an obvious joke.
Re @hadgigegenraum's comment: There is no direct evidence the (c)OTO has banned their members from this place, but a great deal of circumstantial evidence that this is so.
And circumstantial evidence can be very persuasive. There is a classic tale told to lawyers-in-training as to why you should never ask a witness a question you don't know the answer to that illustrates the power of circumstantial evidence:
Atty: Did you see my client bite off the complainant's ear?
Witness: No.
Atty: Then how can you testify that my client was the one who bit his ear off?
Witness: I saw him spit it out.
Relative to your interest in "Libers" such as the perhaps permanently lost Liber O.I.T., it so happens that lashtal.com is a repository of sorts and now a thread entitled "Seeking Received Transmissions" hath received today...from @aleisterion
https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/seeing-received-transmissions/paged/2/#post-118721
with a link to the first volume of Exegesis
Some of the artwork rivals @RTC obsessions with a bald headed fellow, but what is the treat with this three hundred and nine page magazine (and free-Thanks!) are the said connections with the Work of Leah Hirsig, Soror Alostrael, and announcements of her magickal daughter....
Katrice, relative to your interest in "transgressive practice", my skimming found on page 48 a reference to a working entitled the "Achilnothuatz Working", aka the "120 Days of Sodomy" ( a number that may interests friends interested in such digits, 0.12) with a Soror Anadra whose name is give elsewhere...so without veiling what some might consider vices, or the glories of a hungry butt or perhaps just a sore butt...but there seems no references to prolapsed roses delivering the talisman of Holy Shit!
But wait,(!)...for I find it very interesting to find a word that is said to be the feminine mirror to Abrahadabra there in those pages that warrants some further reading...or not!
Since you mention it, yes, ours (i.e. the Holy Thelemic Church) is a magical community guided entirely by its oracle, Soror Aliana, consecrated magical daughter of Lea Hirsig, aka Alostrael, whom we believe is not reincarnated but remains discarnate to guide her magical children.
The Church accepts the law of Thelema as an overarching sacerdotal and traditional law, not as a religion. The Church - the primary work of which is the contact and communion with superior paranormal entities - has under its auspices a few magical orders, each dealing with unique objectives and practices.
I want to make clear that we're not here to recruit, however. We have a small circle of individuals with whom we're content to work at the moment, and aren't accepting members. It isn't a public ecclesia with open rites; ours is a non-congregational magical org to maintain our magical link; to celebrate our sacred tradition and the genius of Thelemic saints; and to promote our magical word Ablanathalba, which we consider the Feminine/Aquarian complement to the Masculine/Leonine aspects introduced during the early era of the New Aeon.
You're welcome, too, for the free mag. Even if you find the content ridiculous or fantastical, we're pleased that you're entertained and would never presume to attempt to enlighten a crowd already so brilliant and bright (no sarcasm intended). Some of the other writing in it is rushed and poorly articulated, but the Exegesis portion is perfect. It came mainly from the oracle, with portions coming from myself.
The 120 Days of Sodomy were the days that counted down - as directed by paranormal intelligence at the time - from the time of the working to the time of minor import to us at the time. This was in February of 1992. It was meant as a minor sign for us at the time; and it was so. We had a different oracle then (Soror Anadra), but she was also informed that the time from which we were counting would be an even greater sign leading to an even greater oracle, and greater proof of the veracity of all this as a genuine link to superior intelligence. The minor sign was interesting for the time we counted to, 120 days forward, led to the summer solstice - it was also the oracle's birthday.
None of that was as shocking as what we found out a score of years later. For the day from which we were told to count - the day that was foretold as all-important to posterity as a sign - was February 22nd, which we would discover in 2003 (in discussions with the Hirsig family) was the actual date of Hirsig's death. We asked if it was okay to announce the actual date online, and we did so. It was Aliana by the way who confirmed it with the Hirsig family, I never conversed with them.
Thanks for the interest! If anyone wants to work in our vein of magick, of course, they're welcome to do so on their own - or not! As aforesaid, a new digital issue of The Encyclical will be coming out for free every six months, with an occasional book to buy later on down the road.
93 be with thee!
-777
I wouldn't be surprised if RTC has been institutionalised in the past.
I will share (which will bolster his ego no doubt) that I had an extremely vivid life-like dream after (trying) to read his last book which involved poltergeist activity, green potions/slime and general nasty Qliphotic-ness, none of which were very fun at all.
At the risk of sounding like a Fundie Christian I promptly tossed the book in the trash and did a bunch of banishings.
Never happened with any other authors....or 'authors'
One may argue, in my later Thelemic Years, that this was just a psychological reaction, subconsciously viewed as an attack on my own Ego in regard to Thelemic thought, but I don't think this is so. It seems more insidious and astral to me.
UFO cult stuff interests me too! It is about the art-soul. What inspires, and what brings joy. No other purpose is needed beyond that.
The coolest UFO Cult book I read was Jacques Valle's 'Messengers of Deception' have you read it?
The coolest UFO Cult book I read was Jacques Valle's 'Messengers of Deception' have you read it?
Oh yes! Vallee's works are classics on the topic. Cults in general fascinate me so it was great reading his words on them
At the risk of sounding like a Fundie Christian I promptly tossed the book in the trash and did a bunch of banishings.
This is a Christian or Non-Christian reflex. I have experienced it. When things get really creepy, banish! And if some malign object is cast into the censer
Note: Cautious magicians do not throw their nail-clippings, hair-cuttings, bloody-handkerchiefs, or horror-grimoires in the trash. They burn such things.
It seems more insidious and astral to me.
Please [im]prove this with something like a Tarot divination or an I Ching throw. If the results are positive, er, negative, send me a copy and I'll start the preparations for the next Grand Tribunal.
consecrated magical daughter of Lea Hirsig, aka Alostrael, whom we believe is not reincarnated but remains discarnate to guide her magical children.
Could you please share more about this?
You're welcome, too, for the free mag. Even if you find the content ridiculous or fantastical, we're pleased that you're entertained and would never presume to attempt to enlighten a crowd already so brilliant and bright (no sarcasm intended).
Thank you for sharing it! Something being ridiculous or fantastical don't necessarily mean it's not useful but I doubt that the contents of your magazine will be either of those.
and to promote our magical word Ablanathalba, which we consider the Feminine/Aquarian complement to the Masculine/Leonine aspects introduced during the early era of the New Aeon.
I may have misread this when I first saw it. How does this Word relate to the word Ablanathanalba?
Since we discuss the contents of AL all the time here, we are thus a literal "centre of pestilence". Of course they avoid us like the plague they see us as!
In that case, I'd say that we're being shunned by all of the right people. 😉
Could you please share more about this?
There's much more detail in the 'zine. Basically, Aliana has related that she was consecrated while in the womb by Alostrael. She was prophesied by the former oracle in 1992, while completely unaware of what she was saying. The sign Anadra provided all those years ago - that pointing directly to the death of Alostrael - was given as the supreme proof of the truth of this.
I may have misread this when I first saw it. How does this Word relate to the word Ablanathanalba?
ABRA-HAD-ABRA centers around HAD or Hadit; it has a root component of RA, which is masculine; & its numeration by AQBL is 57.
ABLA-NATH-ALBA centers around NATH or Nuit; it has a root component of LA, which is feminine; & its numeration by AQBL is its reverse, 75.
93s
777
seedy weekly newspapers
Sadly, the "seedy weekly newspapers" are mostly no more.
Various anti-sex trafficking laws have made the personals ads and prostitution ads that funded the "alternative press" /"underground press" since the '60s no longer profitable. Competition from online sites had already hit them hard. Vermont's Seven Days is a rare (and very watered down) survivor of that era.
Arrived, Cornelius's latest, in bubble wrap, from Prescott Arizona...sans seedy newspapers from Berkeley! Oh well!
Mine as well. Reading now.
ABRA-HAD-ABRA centers around HAD or Hadit; it has a root component of RA, which is masculine; & its numeration by AQBL is 57.
ABLA-NATH-ALBA centers around NATH or Nuit; it has a root component of LA, which is feminine; & its numeration by AQBL is its reverse, 75.
Thank you for the elaborations. For my second quesion, I was more specifically asking about any relation between Ablanathalba and the older word AblanathANalba from the PGM.
I was more specifically asking about any relation between Ablanathalba and the older word AblanathANalba from the PGM.
Same word. It is palindromic but strictly speaking not a palindrome (in either form). The longer word numerates as 90 by Angloqabalah, which is (10x9) the mundane manifestation of Luna. The shorter form, which we prefer, obviously has 11 letters in Hebrew.
PGM?
Papyri Graecae Magicae aka Greek Magical Papyri
It's also worth mentioning that on the night of Aleister Crowley's nativity (Oct 12, 1875), H.P. Blavatsky wrote a message explaining the postponement of a Theosophical Society meeting, and on the back of it this word (Ablanathalba) was included.
https://www.lashtal.com/606-old-news/
See here for images of the message she wrote:
H P Blavatsky: Tibet and Tulku Hardcover – 1974.
The full benediction was:
“Sub pretextu juris summum jus saepe summa injuria, Frater; suaviter in modo, fortiter in re. Tantaene animis coelestibus aut vere adepti IRAE?
“In Nomine
“ABLANATHALBA [in Greek]
“SEMES EILAM.” [in Greek]
Translation: “Under the pretext of justice, a strict application of law is often the gravest injury, Frater. Be gentle in manner though resolute in execution. Can such Wrath towards divine souls befit one fully adept? In the Name of Ablanathalba Semes Eilam.”
About Ablanathalba, HPB writes:
“A term similar to “Abrac[h]adabra”. It is said by C.W. King to have meant “thou art a father to us”; it reads the same from either end and was used as a charm in Egypt. Abracadabra is explained in this manner:
“The word “Abracadabra” is a later corruption of the sacred Gnostic term “Abrasax”, the latter itself being a still earlier corruption of a sacred and ancient Coptic or Egyptian word: a magic formula which meant in its symbolism “Hurt me not”, and addressed the deity in its hieroglyphics as “Father”. It was generally attached to an amulet or charm and worn as a TAT, on the breast under the garments.”
I hope this was helpful. I've always found it interesting that Blavatsky left us this benediction on the night of Crowley's birth, with an older form of the Word of the New Aeon stamped thereupon. I very much agree with AC in his opinion that she was his forerunner.
P.S. "Semes Eilam" is Greek for "Eternal Sun".