Rabelais didn't invent the word "Thelema", it's there in the Lord's prayer.
Theleme as used by Rabelais is the geographical location of his fictional Abbey of Theleme, and not a reference to the biblical application of the word, unless one views Rabelais' use of it as a veiled satirical jab at the Christian religion. The key principle of the Thelemites is to live in a society without restrictions, which as you well know, is the core theme of Liber Legis. To think Thelema has anything to do with the false, oppressive doctrines of Christianity is merely a case of confirmation bias that focuses on a single word, while ignoring its intended context.
The key principle of the Thelemites is to live in a society without restrictions, which as you well know, is the core theme of Liber Legis. To think Thelema has anything to do with the false, oppressive doctrines of Christianity is merely a case of confirmation bias that focuses on a single word, while ignoring its intended context.
A society "without restrictions", please elaborate.
How are the doctrines of Christianity "false and oppressive"? In fact which doctrines? Furthermore what do you think Christianity even is? Remember Christ did not say go and form a hierarchical exclusively male dominated cult that seeks to own property and hunt down Pagans and Gnostics.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
There is a division hither homeward - running throughout the threads. Prepare ye all for the fourth coming of The Hair.
While you're doing that, I'll be practicing pratyahara.
The key principle of the Thelemites is to live in a society without restrictions, which as you well know, is the core theme of Liber Legis. To think Thelema has anything to do with the false, oppressive doctrines of Christianity is merely a case of confirmation bias that focuses on a single word, while ignoring its intended context.
A society "without restrictions", please elaborate.
How are the doctrines of Christianity "false and oppressive"? In fact which doctrines? Furthermore what do you think Christianity even is? Remember Christ did not say go and form a hierarchical exclusively male dominated cult that seeks to own property and hunt down Pagans and Gnostics.
To put on a Kippah for a moment - remember that "Christ" also merely taught the Torah and via the Torah critiqued the hypocrisies of his day (to a limited extent though as he appears to be Pro-Rome). Jesus was a form of Jew (remember there were various competing sects back then) and therefore didn't critique his own principles (which involve power hierarchies).
In Christian doctrine itself though, Jesus is the head of a power hierarchy (the Body of Christ"), to which Peter is "the Rock". Jesus was ironic and subversive but not anti-institution or anti-tradition.
Also remember about Gnostics that many of them were Anti-Semites.
"There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is ever as it was." - Liber Legis 2:58
"To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss." - Liber Legis 3:62
Rabelais didn't invent the word "Thelema", it's there in the Lord's prayer.
Theleme as used by Rabelais is the geographical location of his fictional Abbey of Theleme, and not a reference to the biblical application of the word, unless one views Rabelais' use of it as a veiled satirical jab at the Christian religion. The key principle of the Thelemites is to live in a society without restrictions, which as you well know, is the core theme of Liber Legis. To think Thelema has anything to do with the false, oppressive doctrines of Christianity is merely a case of confirmation bias that focuses on a single word, while ignoring its intended context.
The Kingdom of God.
I think you should not take yourself so seriously with your kneejerk complaining because you miss the point by such a long margin.
The concept of "Thelema" mentioned in the Lord's Prayer IS significant, and it's significant to Crowley's repeated references to it, it is significant to Rabelais' use of it, it is significant to Thelemic eschatology/dispensationalism/Aeonology.
If you've read Liber Legis, The Vision & The Voice and other central Thelemic texts, then what I am saying is not by any means controversial, in fact you go to the point of agreeing with what I said while also denying it.
"There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is ever as it was." - Liber Legis 2:58
"To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss." - Liber Legis 3:62
This is the Hairy Tales Put Down thread. The Hair has failed to appear to visible manifestation of sight, sound, and trupetry, on this Eleventh day of April-Spring.
It is now time to dust off the Black Box, uncap the sealed jar of Stiny Substances, and get this altogether with the RTC talisman. Forcing spirits to appear is a dark-hearted act to find one's self having come to, but if you're desperate, then go ahead and close the Box, calling upon the Hair to Appear.
I'd do it, but I'm actually busier trying to do Thou Wilt.
How are the doctrines of Christianity "false and oppressive"?
The concept of original sin, dualism, repression of the sexual instinct, fear and hatred of anyone that is not a Christian, to name a few.
Remember Christ did not say go and form a hierarchical exclusively male dominated cult that seeks to own property and hunt down Pagans and Gnostics.
Christ, a word derived from the Greek word Christos, which was quite possibly derived from the Egyptian word KRST, a term used for those that went through the mummification process, is a mythological figure that never existed, and never actually said anything at all.
a mythological figure that never existed, and never actually said anything at all.
So WHO wrote down those words? And what position does that speculative author hold in relation to the "mythological figure?"
“There is no God but Man,” right? Ergo, Man MUST be the mouthpiece of God. And God must EXIST (by definition in Oz etc). But we err when we seek the Kingdom outside of the “Within” (as the Christos indicates, even in the Book of Luke).
Christos is akin to Buddha. There have been many Buddhist Cults which identify Buddha as Gautama, right? But Gautama is an imaginary “historical” character who MANIFESTS the Buddha (which is not a personage but the Supreme Aspect of Consciousness). Hence the “Life Span of the Thus Come One” Chapter of the Lotus Sutra.
Buddhahood is the STAR or SUN or COMPANY OF HEAVEN (i.e. STARS-per a parallel thread). Buddhahood is NUIT and HADIT is the Manifestation of 0 into 2. These two only exist as One/None (as described in the Heart Sutra). One doesn't choose between Nuit and Hadit. One, instead, BECOMES RA HOOR and Chapter Three blazes forth in our very lives. It cannot do otherwise.
Regarding the Son of Man, the Nazarene, the many Gospels all express the Christos or Logos within all Humanity. Some desire to demonstrate the mythic nature of the Scriptures as if it were a triumphant death-knell, sounded in favor of the Anti-Christ and Atheist. As I see it, the unveiling of this mythic content is a resurrection unto Gnosis which is tantamount to the central and signature message of the Book of the Law.
the Christos or Logos within all Humanity.
Yeah, this is getting closer to the Horus concept: Individual sovereignty. I believe the primary "corruption" is found in the administration of the Christian philosophy, where the dudes say, "We are holy and we will intermediate between you and God - Jesus, his agent, in particular."
Jesus said (or somebody must have said and then it got attributed to a mythical metaphor Jewish preacher-healer) ... he said, "These things that I do - you will do them, but even greater." I believe he also recommended to the people that they approach The Father (the "monad" for metaphysicians - Kether for QBLists) directly.
This is merely another example of how Set murdered Osiris, and took over his throne. Holy excrement! No wonder RHK says, "I will deal hardly with them."
How are the doctrines of Christianity "false and oppressive"?
The concept of original sin, dualism, repression of the sexual instinct, fear and hatred of anyone that is not a Christian, to name a few.
And where does Christ, in the gospels, promote those things?
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
And where does Christ, in the gospels, promote those things?
He don't. Again and again, the choice of men, and women too, is to see the original (hairy fairy) tale as different from ("not the same as") the built-up Institution that followed.
It seems that Heru is citing the problems with the Church, not necessarily the protagonist. You are looking at the Man and his teachings (which then went on to become corrupted).
Remember Christ did not say go and form a hierarchical exclusively male dominated cult that seeks to own property and hunt down Pagans and Gnostics.
Christ, a word derived from the Greek word Christos, which was quite possibly derived from the Egyptian word KRST, a term used for those that went through the mummification process, is a mythological figure that never existed, and never actually said anything at all.
But "Christ" is only the Greek form (that Christians decided to mostly use) of the Hebrew word Moshiach (of which is used in the "Old Testament").
"There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is ever as it was." - Liber Legis 2:58
"To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss." - Liber Legis 3:62
Timothy Moss, of Amarillo, Texas, is a mythological figure that never existed, and never actually said anything at all.
It seems that Heru is citing the problems with the Church, not necessarily the protagonist. You are looking at the Man and his teachings (which then went on to become corrupted).
This is true. I witness so many who want to spit upon the Christos based upon a reaction against the Institutions raised up in his name. It's an understandable but shallow response. Jesus said “No man cometh unto the Father but by me.” And then here comes the Roman Catholic Church with its “Vicar of Christ.” One can imagine the Nazarene replying
“Did I STUTTER?”
And regarding the Aeon, we can certainly look to Crowley's words regarding the Magi of the Aeons Past. He regards Moses, the Law-Giver. He regards Mohammed. I don't think he was envisioning our modern day Fundies or Terrorists. Likewise, Crowley's hatred of the Church(es) was not a hatred of the Son of Man who manifested the patterns we find in the Initiatory figures of Antiquity.
Walter Jantschik saw in Baphomet both Christ and Satan. This was according to the vantage point of the Observer. Ultimately, Baph is a Cosmic Gnosis. If one can get away from the corrupt institutions and read the Gospels as poetic works, the casual and easy cynicism may give way to an inspiring experience tending unto “True Will.”
We've been talking about the antecedents of Thelema in our forward pushing threads. The list of Gnostic Saints in the OTO/EGC ought indicate that this thing we call “Thelema” has been with us since time immemorial. This is because it is a fact, a truth, a verity. If 1904 was a pivotal point, it only posits an(other) Unveiling of Isis. Another finger pointing at the Moon. And there continue to be others. We keep getting closer and we will shed our layers of Light for those who come after us.
The Glad Word is that this isn't a war of Dogma and Doctrine. Every Testimony becomes a shining Jewel in the Treasury of the Martinists. We don't submit to the authority of big wigs who lead us unto worship of any figure greater than ourselves. Instead, we discover the divine power within ourselves with help from the Illuminates. THIS is the chain of transmission.
All of this leads to a Vision of the Anatomy of the Body of God-of which we are both part and whole.
This is true. I witness so many who want to spit upon the Christos based upon a reaction against the Institutions raised up in his name.
It can be an act of antinomianism unto itself for such a person to do a full invocation of Jesus or Mary.
Likewise, Crowley's hatred of the Church(es) was not a hatred of the Son of Man who manifested the patterns we find in the Initiatory figures of Antiquity.
Have you read Morton Smith's Jesus the Magician?
We've been talking about the antecedents of Thelema in our forward pushing threads. The list of Gnostic Saints in the OTO/EGC ought indicate that this thing we call “Thelema” has been with us since time immemorial. This is because it is a fact, a truth, a verity. If 1904 was a pivotal point, it only posits an(other) Unveiling of Isis. Another finger pointing at the Moon. And there continue to be others. We keep getting closer and we will shed our layers of Light for those who come after us.
Dositheus, Dee, Blake, Randolph, the Current has worked its way through history for a long time. The Aeons are not completely exclusive.
Have I got this right? Stephen Flowers wrote a book in which he proposes that Jesus was a master of the LHP?
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
Have I got this right? Stephen Flowers wrote a book in which he proposes that Jesus was a master of the LHP?
Kind of? There's a four page section in Lords of the Left Hand Path where he speculates on the idea that Jesus's life shows some events and ideas that could support the notion: self-deification, going against the norms of the time, potential parallels between works and magickal writings of the day, all things also covered in Jesus the Magician, but that, even if so, obviously none of that survived in to the religion based on his name.
Back to our OT: despite @therealrtc posting on bacefook on April 8 that "OMG! The Horus Toy Has Arrived", in cold, sober, real-life fact, nothing at all has arrived anywhere.
Still nothing new on his Lulu author page, although i note that RTC has taken The Inauguration Of... out of print some time since April 1.
Perhaps this was to memory-hole the references therein to "The Horus Toy™" as a physical, electronic device, discovered while masturbating in a park?
Jesus was a master of the LHP?
It is possible that he was an LHP magus in that' he got the sinners to believe after thousands of years, that god changed his mind and sent him to save them; leaving the Secret Chiefs to let the human experiment go on with this concept in their minds until they were ready for the concept that they are Stars and can emblazon a path of their own with no need to be saved.
the Secret Chiefs to let the human experiment go on with this concept in their minds until they were ready for the concept that they are Stars and can emblazon a path of their own with no need to be saved
I tend to read the verse in AL “With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross” as condemnatory, specifically, of this teaching of vicarious atonement. The “attack” is upon what has become the symbol of a need to be saved by a source outside of oneself. Horus also emphasizes that he launches this assault “with his Hawk's head.” The persona rejecting this previously dominant dogma is that of Horus and all his mythic form implies (which is everything from the dwarf-self to personal responsibility for ones fate). The eyes are the critical object of attack as they embody a false vision (I am thinking of Blake's admonition to see THROUGH and not WITH the eye).
The Gospels, however, do not readily conform to the hermeneutics behind the doctrine of vicarious atonement and simplistic four step plans for salvation proffered through three page tracts and the pulpits of fundamentalist churches. This was a powerful control mechanism of the so-called “Old Aeon” in which dependency upon authority was promoted and required. One might argue that it was the rejection of such a programme which saw Jesus nailed to the Cross in the first place.
And yes, I fully realize that the points of view I am expressing will find no acceptance in the majority of today's Churches (which is of no consequence to me) . But-! These points of view DO have an audience and research base. And they DO have a home in various Gnostic churches and groups.
We don't toss out Aleister's writings because of the “Demon Crowley” nor should we disdain and discard the mystical writings of Christianity because of the “Demon Church.”
In the end we are dealing with symbols, images and ideas which may be applied to our personal lives and aspirations, effectively or otherwise.
Have you read Morton Smith's Jesus the Magician?
I have NOT but I am intrigued and interested! Thank you for the reference and I'll look into this, Katrice!
Have I got this right? Stephen Flowers wrote a book in which he proposes that Jesus was a master of the LHP?
It doesn't matter what this Flower-fellow wrote. According to some traditions, yogis who "use objects" (instead of sitting steady still) are branded "Left-Handed." So, yes. the Jesus persona, or his compilation, used Fish, Water, Wine, and Bread, and thus he qualifies.
Back to our OT: despite @therealrtc posting on bacefook on April 8 that "OMG! The Horus Toy Has Arrived", in cold, sober, real-life fact, nothing at all has arrived anywhere.
Oh.
You noticed.
Still nothing new on his Lulu author page, although i note that RTC has taken The Inauguration Of... out of print some time since April 1.
It will now become a Rare Collector's Item.
I have NOT but I am intrigued and interested! Thank you for the reference and I'll look into this, Katrice!
I think you'll find it interesting. It puts Jesus in the context of esoteric practices of his day, also comparing him to figures like Appolonius of Tyana
Back to our OT: despite @therealrtc posting on bacefook on April 8 that "OMG! The Horus Toy Has Arrived", in cold, sober, real-life fact, nothing at all has arrived anywhere.
Still nothing new on his Lulu author page, although i note that RTC has taken The Inauguration Of... out of print some time since April 1.
Perhaps this was to memory-hole the references therein to "The Horus Toy™" as a physical, electronic device, discovered while masturbating in a park?
AHA!! I have figured out the key to this elusive-toy mystery. He plays the role of parent promising the children (I.e. the disappointed adults here who have no life) a new toy only to watch their tantrums when it appears not. The Sufis used to do this sort of thing, employing their teachings within role play acting.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
Still nothing new on his Lulu author page
Well, we learned that review copies are out so at least we can look out for reviews. In other news, while RTC here sounds like the proverbial Angry Old White Man on Fecebook, he still promises a lot:
"The entire occult fraternity seems afflicted with this malaise. Smedia reeks of their bombastic crap. Let’s start with the ‘old school’ Thelemites. They bestow upon themselves ludicrous honorifics and obsessively polish their self-apportioned, lofty degrees of enlightenment. They pontificate their dysfunctional doctrines from on-high, believing they cast pearls before swine when, in fact, they take forever to say absolutely nothing. Far from annihilating egos, their fossilised systems generate vastly overblown egos fragile as glass. They behave like Benny Hill meets Trainspotting.
Well, we learned that review copies are out so at least we can look out for reviews. In other news, while RTC here sounds like the proverbial Angry Old White Man on Fecebook, he still promises a lot:
wtf I like RTC now 🙂
Who doesn't like him?
[RTC] plays the role of parent promising the children (I.e. the disappointed adults here who have no life) a new toy only to watch their tantrums when it appears not.
I haven't really seen anyone actually upset, let alone having tantrums, at RTC's highly predictable failure to deliver. There has certainly been a good deal of (well-deserved) mockery, but i don't think there's much evidence that this mockery stems from disappointment at being denied our "Horus Toys™". I don't think very many really expected that he would deliver anything real anyway.
Your very, um, charitable interpretation of RTC's repeated promises to deliver various things, followed by, inevitably, every single time, a failure to deliver those things, as being some sort of meta "Sufi role play acting" seems to me to over-complicate things, and thus fails "Occam's Razor".
The simplest interpretation of a person repeatedly making extravagant claims that he can't deliver on is that this person is a con-man/huckster/bullshit-artist, or is delusional/nuts, or some combination of these. The jury is still out on where RTC lies on this spectrum.
The only thing of which we can be certain is that he is a buffoon, and in the habit of promising things that don't exist.
wtf I like RTC now
Jesus! The statement from his Facebook page, helpfully pasted by Lutz, is one of the biggest mish-mashes of straw man arguments and moronic parodies that I have come across for quite a while now. Sorry to hear that you like the posturing fool.
I have figured out the key to this elusive-toy mystery.
Such a claim remains to be proven. In this thread (especially) any claims whatsoever need to be accompanied by "proof." No proof? The claimant gets a Poof.
Well, we learned that review copies are out ...
A normal act in the RTC pageant.
Jesus! The statement from his Facebook page, helpfully pasted by Lutz, is one of the biggest mish-mashes of straw man arguments and moronic parodies that I have come across for quite a while now.
It's a good thing that we have other things to occupy our daily time ... or we'd go nuts.
Isn't it weird that the applied Trikey method (quantity of letters determine their value) is quite different from Aiwass' Liber L writ?
How so, when the Tri-key gematria system is derived from the same writ, which is not Aiwass' by the way, and used to examine the very writ from which it is derived? You are not making any sense in regard to the actual facts.
Does Aiwass change his gematria whenever he likes?
I have been using the same gematria system consistently for the last 13 years--what in the world are you talking about?
Which cardinal point has Amarillo if it's neither west or east?
I have had 13 years to consider most of the details concerning the Tri-key and Liber Legis, some of which are so minor as to not be worthy of mentioning, but since you brought it up:
Tim Moss = 52 = Chosen one = Southwest.
Does Aiwass change his gematria whenever he likes?
Sorry, I made a mistake. I was referring to this:
I was doing as suggested, by appealing to Ankh-f-n-khonsu's writ--The Book of the Law.
[...]
There are only three documents penned by Ankh-f-n-khonsu: The Book of The Law, The Tunis Comment, and Across The Gulf. The two latter writings offer nothing in terms of understanding the former.
To Ankh-f-n-khonsu's writ, as you wrote. Not Aiwass.
And I was just pointing out that the the letter count in each of the three is different.
Tim Moss = 52 = Chosen one = Southwest.
Oh. I see. That's settled then. Why wouldn't an Egyptian deity or half-deity or dead man or even just a regular Egyptian guy writing in Egypt refer to Amarillo in the US as "Southwest". You are really a "chosen one".
Tim Moss = 52 = Chosen one = Southwest.
I realize from your repeated postings about this that i am wrong, but i would have thought that claiming that you have objective proof that you are the "Chosen one" would cause almost anyone to seek mental health care.
Would you agree that believing one is The Chosen One is a pretty glaring red flag as to the possibility of mental illness? If not, why not?
Do you have daily contact with any other humans, and if so, have you shared with them the "fact" that you are The Chosen One? Have you told your family that you are The Chosen One? If not, why not?
Have you discussed the "fact" that you are The Chosen One with a psychologist/psychiatrist? If you are in fact The Chosen One, this should be something that you would happily do, to allay the obvious skepticism that this outlandish claim will obviously cause in any normal person.
If this is something you would hesitate to do, or would not do, why?
As to the "substance" of this latest claim, why do you suppose that your name is encoded here as "Tim Moss", whereas most of the other "proofs" of your "Chosen" nature refer to a "Timothy Moss"?
Are you certain that you are the only "Timothy Moss" ever born in Amarillo, Texas? If you are not certain that you are the only "Timothy Moss" ever born in Amarillo, Texas, how do you know that you are the "Chosen" Timothy Moss, and not just one of the ordinary ones?
And of course @the_real_simon_iff 's point that Texas is in the "Southwest" only if your perspective is limited to maps of the entire USA is a very strong one, that you will need to explain your way out of. Texas is north of all of Mexico, and Latin America, and northeast of Australia and New Zealand, and of course southeast of the entire US west coast. Why would Aiwass/RHK use that USA-centric, and really US east coast-centric, terminology?
Finally, would it be possible for you to confine your "Chosen One" claims to threads that you have started to discuss these claims, and not post about them in other threads about Aleister Crowley, or his life and legacy?
You do realize that not a single person here takes your claims seriously, right?
To Ankh-f-n-khonsu's writ, as you wrote. Not Aiwass.
Aren't these both - along with a few others - pen names of Mr Crowley?
Would you agree that believing one is The Chosen One is a pretty glaring red flag as to the possibility of mental illness?
Not if there's allowance for multiple chosenees. If everyone (or at least a chosen few) were provided for, think how many people would be relieved (of worry and psych bills).
You do realize that not a single person here takes your claims seriously, right?
We don't know that for sure. There might be followers among us.
I was once chosen to be the Captain of The Rangers in junior high school. I wonder if that counts? I can tell more about The Rangers and the school, but it's hardly appropriate in and under the present Inquisition.
@herupakraath
Ok; Congratulations. Lets see what ya got. When do we get to see the show ?
Then, when they catch a bit of flack, post lovely selfies
Dammit! Should I change my profile pic now? 😉
Let’s not forget the ‘serious’ fems, who gender reassign Gematria,
Wait, do people really do that?!
Welcome to the New Aeon of Horus.
Well, @therealrtc, we're all abundantly aware of what you are against, but, once again, what are you for?
but i don't think there's much evidence that this mockery stems from disappointment at being denied our "Horus Toys™"
A Horus Toy™ would be nice, but I'm just disappointed that I can't seem to find out what the New Aeon of Horus™ actually is, in relation to the Aeon we know. He still comes off like Amado, claiming he has the Truth™ but never saying what that is.
The jury is still out on where RTC lies on this spectrum.
And/or he's trolling everyone and jerking off to the reactions he gets.
I hope he does, but probably not. Ever since he is here he is trying desperately to fit the prophet shoes. He had the Holo-Key before, he had the Tri-Key (admittedly for quite some time), "Thelima" was a big thing. He is just desperate to be the Chosen One. Tim Moss: the one who comes after. It seems that this is all that Liber L offers: it's Tim Moss. Nobody gets something from it, but Tim Moss. Well, damn... RTC will crush him of course.
@katrice Posterity now will think these are MY words...
Um, oops! Sorry, I guess I could have been more judicious in my editing there.
"Thelima" was a big thing.
Is that Thelema with beans?
Interesting that "The One Who Comes After", very much unlike "The One Who Came Before", produces nothing at all except endless, ridiculous, convoluted "QBL" "proofs" of his "Chosen-ness"
No new revelations, prophecies, channeled books, and of course zero books about how to attain. No witty jokes, no evidence of massive erudition and years of study, nothing that would inspire a person to follow some sort of spiritual mystical/magickal path. Nothing that would convince anyone that this is a person who has attained, that this is a person worthy of study and attention.
None of that stuff that made "The One Who Came Before" someone folks are still discussing 75 years after his death. Nope. Just endless ego aggrandizement, with no evidence at all that his inflated self-image has any basis in reality.
Would you agree that believing one is The Chosen One is a pretty glaring red flag as to the possibility of mental illness?
What are your thoughts regarding Crowley making what is essentially the same claim?
Not if there's allowance for multiple chosenees. If everyone (or at least a chosen few) were provided for, think how many people would be relieved (of worry and psych bills).
I seem to recall the late Don Michael Kraig remarking that the multitude of claimants to the title of "Reincarnation of Aleister Crowley" could possibly ALL be right as, dividing the lot by their total number, each contender seemed to possess just that percentage of AC's intelligence and insight.
What are your thoughts regarding Crowley making what is essentially the same claim?
That it was silly, egotistical, delusional, and lame.
it was silly, egotistical, delusional, and lame.
Sounds like there is SOMETHING you agree with RTC on! 😉
[RTC] plays the role of parent promising the children (I.e. the disappointed adults here who have no life) a new toy only to watch their tantrums when it appears not.
I haven't really seen anyone actually upset, let alone having tantrums, at RTC's highly predictable failure to deliver.
I thought it was funny, my RTC Sufi put-on. Irony lost in trans-Atlantic transmission. He's full of it yes.
https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline
what are you for?
Making people wait in long bread lines for no bread. Fine. I'll eat cake.
he has the Truth™ but never saying what that is.
The Truth, the Chosen One, the One who Follows (thee), the Child (and that strangely), tthe Holy Chosen One, the Expounder (he pounds it out [ex- = "out"] ), what else can I say, who else will come forth claiming wisdom and wit? The following equation simply must be applied ...
Claim = "Proof"
There. That's simple. And it's posted in the proper thread.
What are your thoughts regarding Crowley making what is essentially the same claim?
There is a difference. AC produced many books. These mostly contained the "self-evident" quality we look for in esoteric works.
RTC produced many books. They were interesting, but some parts elicited a "WTF?" and upon anal-isis, most of his points were shown to be either false or non-provable WTFs.
AC wrote practices. "Here - do these. See what you think or find." These work.
RTC writes promises. "Believe me. I have proof. I'll get back to you." He never does.
Perhaps we have come to the point where we know Which Fiery Tails to Put Down.
There is a difference.
Between what? My question was on the tail of Tim Moss = Chosen One. Ignant remarked that this seemed like a spot of mental illness. I immediately thought of AC claiming the same sort of "touched by the hand of God" status. Ignant seems to regard this as an encrustation around the gemstone of Crowley's insights. RTC would agree, I think.
So is anyone ever the "Chosen One?" Well, of course. People get "tapped" all the time. Talent agents and couch casters and nepotistic people in power make their "selections" all the time. But beyond this grime, wouldn't you say that Alice Bailey was "chosen" to deliver the teachings she did?
And being chosen by a Divine Company or Power isn't always fun and games. The short Biblical book of Jonah tells the tale of one seriously pissed off and bitter guy who gets "chosen" and learns just how hard it is to "kick against the pricks."
I think, perhaps, the problem with the whole "chosen" business is that it divides instead of uniting. It's "me" and not "you." But in Thelema, we are ALL "Stars." Furthermore, Stars are such in relationship to all other Stars. So, although I may have a unique Will, I must understand it in an energetic matrix of other Wills, just as unique. It's akin to Blake remarking that the true worship of God was honoring his gifts in other human beings.
And speaking of Blake. He was once asked about his view of the Divinity of Jesus. Blake said: "He is the only God. But then so are you. And so am I."
So perhaps the revelations extracted from AL are not nailed into any singular reality tunnel but illumine each and every one inasmuch as the scales begin to drop from our eyes.
There is a difference.
Between what?
There is a difference between the Crowley claim and Other claims (such as the Moss claim). Everybody makes the same claim - there is no difference. But the content (of the claim) and the resultant(s) (of said claim) are different as I listed, pointed out, and explained.
AC claiming the same sort of "touched by the hand of God" status.
Well, yeah, he was nuttier than a fairy cake - but he produced practical works that Other people (objective) can use. Other claimants claim, but we are all searching really hard for the practical applications. Otherwise, it's sort of abstract (subjective), which possibly could lead to [gasp] self-importance.
So is anyone ever the "Chosen One?"
"Many are called but few are chosen. They choose themselves." I think this comes from The Book of Life (and Death).
wouldn't you say that Alice Bailey was "chosen" to deliver the teachings she did?
Yes.
I'll match you and raise the pot. Various drugsters giggle in the background. Pay no attention to those twits behind the curtain. Thus: All this stuff about external praeter beings, angels, holy men, chosen women, scarlet women, demons, aliens, and other people - these are merely projections from our inner source. Therion his-self indicated that this was so, but he conceded that it was more convenient to assume these are independent external beings. I believe he stated this in more that one place, but it's in 444-III and he tells us that at least this way, we have our demons outside of us.
I will now raise myself even further (before you raise, fold, or steal the pot [giggles behind the curtain]. Here's the bottom line by which I measure all things - The goal of this thing called The Path is to attain Nothing-Emtiness-Void-Nirvana-Dzogchen. Anything other than that - is insanity on the deepest (or highest) levels.
Yeah, guess what? Almost everybody here qualifies, and I'm not talking down from a point of sanity. We are gathered here, in this (um) institution, in order to figure a way to Get Out (see 333-23).
You may quote me.
And being chosen by a Divine Company or Power isn't always fun and games
Right. I suggest, however, that no external anything chooses the chosen or anything else. It's all pre-programmed in the DNA. But to get to our "true" blueprint, we have to (as AC wrote) rid ourselves of our accidents.
I think, perhaps, the problem with the whole "chosen" business is that it divides instead of uniting. It's "me" and not "you."
When one is operating in a "chosen" state. even if he/she is insane most of the day, there is an awareness of radiating light, but no room for self-reflection about importance and being in a chosen state. This is because people are recognizing you, and (of course) they have needs - of one kind or another. You can't help them unless you're out of yourself and into their business.
To avoid intrusion, always make them ask.
But in Thelema, we are ALL "Stars."
Right. At a certain exalted level of consciousness. This cannot be applied unless we are actually in that state. Otherwise, we're insane robots that are being picked on by incoming asteroids, comets, and tentacles reaching up from pits in the ground. I believe this thread relates to an incoming asteroid. (Asteroid = "resembling a Star).
So perhaps the revelations extracted from AL are not nailed into any singular reality tunnel but illumine each and every one inasmuch as the scales begin to drop from our eyes.
Oh, the process is pretty much alike for everyone, but the dramas and the interpretations are unique to everyone. It only at the end that the experience is common to all - Nothing is Nothing, and if anyone puts any form, color, description on that, then I will have to refer them to the cosmic psychologist.
"Thelima" was a big thing.
Is that Thelema with beans?
No, it was one of his earlier gematria solutions. Needed to be Thelima so that it had the correct value then. Well, maybe, it WAS Thelema with beans...