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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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01/02/2012 10:48 pm  

LAShTAL: Yep, nailed it 🙂

Darkflame, yes but only in the form of a quote from the experimental film "The Cut Ups" from 1966. Cinematography by Antony Balch
Screenplay: William S. Burroughs Cast: William S. Burroughs, Brion Gysin. It was years after I heard the PTV track I found the film and had one of those great "Ah-ha!" moments
: )

The cutup audio is from an Scientology auditing session. I always found the free association more than a little sinister.

Please report to Interzone for your prize  :-* You can watch the film en route

Antony Balch - The Cut-Ups


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 Anonymous
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01/02/2012 11:21 pm  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
I'm not suggesting lazy or sloppy attempt at "the Great Work."

I think that is exactly what you're trying to justify, and it is very telling about the approach you've obviously taken to it yourself. Once in a while, someone just has to say something to contradict your mindless fanboy chattering, mostly confined to the tiny box in the corner these days, thankfully.

"einDoppelganger" wrote:
I suppose I'm just amused by Camlion, self-styled elder statesman of Thelema, sycophant of the celestial spheres, and unsung hero of 1960s occulture and author of (unreleased) "Hermosa beach Abbey of Thelema"

The publication of the book is "delayed by the economy," as is my retirement and several other matters of concern to me.


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einDoppelganger
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01/02/2012 11:36 pm  

"Camlion" wrote:
The publication of the book is "delayed by the economy," as is my retirement and several other matters of concern to me.

LOL

allow me to suggest lulu.com for all your publishing needs when "the man" stops "keepin' ya down."


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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01/02/2012 11:58 pm  

I would stipulate that a "personal issue" remains a potential problem until it is fully resolved. A diagnosis is a step in the right direction, certainly but a full resolution does not automatically follow. We see evidence of this in many of our 'heroes' and 'anti-heroes.'

Although Ein-D has already thrown some comments out on this I wanted to add that I found it a particularly strange reply. I was making reference to Jack's own self-assessment in his "Analysis by a Master of the Temple of the Critical Nodes in the Experience of his Material Vehicle" (if that wasn't obvious).

Cam, have you read this (very short) document? I no, it's online and I'll provide a link.

The thing is: Jack, like all of us, had his unique life marked by many elements, elements which COULD have tended towards serious detriment. Instead, he identifies all of these and reins them into his starry course in context of Thelema. They become engines as opposed to shackles. They also underlie all of his achievements as a scientist, magician and man.

Are you suggesting with your post that Jack was somehow aware of his programming and proclivities but failed to "fully resolve them?"


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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02/02/2012 12:00 am  

LOL That's close, but no beard and the wife is a generation younger than I am. 🙂


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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02/02/2012 12:11 am  
"Camlion" wrote:
LOL That's close, but no beard and the wife is a generation younger than I am. 🙂

I don't see how it would matter even if it is/was you and your wife.

"kidneyhawk" wrote:
Are you suggesting with your post that Jack was somehow aware of his programming and proclivities but failed to "fully resolve them?"

This question looms over the memory of Jack Parsons to this day, in many forms. I think the short version is that people question the validity of his work on the whole, and they want to place it into so many boxes and dimensions. "This part is good for this, or that", and so forth. I would assume one to be encouraged to ask such questions, in the context of a study of Parsons' life and works, as you have done here, Kyle.

It makes for an interesting arena, that much is certain.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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02/02/2012 12:27 am  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
Are you suggesting with your post that Jack was somehow aware of his programming and proclivities but failed to "fully resolve them?"

No Kyle, at that point I was very generically addressing the premature entrance into of the 'Ordeal of the Abyss,' or rather, incomplete Initiation. I have no interest, as I said, in analyzing the behavior of Parsons, Jones, Crowley, etc, unless we can learn from it, even in a very general sense, and should not have interrupted the thread.

Speaking of which, I have not forgotten your very interesting post in the other thread, I've just been terribly distracted by other matters.


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kidneyhawk
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02/02/2012 12:32 am  

at that point I was very generically addressing the premature entrance into of the 'Ordeal of the Abyss,' or rather, incomplete Initiation.

This is a topic of great personal interest to me and I will be writing on this theme very soon.

I have not forgotten your very interesting post in the other thread, I've just been terribly distracted by other matters.

That's quite allright and I'm still glad you're up for discussion. I, too, have had many things pulling on me and it took me long enough to respond to YOUR post!  🙂

But now I'M derailing our thread! Back to the Black Pilgrimage!

 


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 Anonymous
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02/02/2012 12:42 am  
"Azidonis" wrote:
This question looms over the memory of Jack Parsons to this day, in many forms. I think the short version is that people question the validity of his work on the whole, and they want to place it into so many boxes and dimensions. "This part is good for this, or that", and so forth. I would assume one to be encouraged to ask such questions, in the context of a study of Parsons' life and works, as you have done here, Kyle.

It makes for an interesting arena, that much is certain.

Not necessarily everyone's point of view, Az. Anyway, one must choose one's battles.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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02/02/2012 2:27 am  
"Camlion" wrote:
Not necessarily everyone's point of view, Az.

I didn't say it was.


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kidneyhawk
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02/02/2012 3:01 am  

one must choose one's battles

I don't necessarily smell a battle brewing. Parsons was one of the "fruits" of Crowley's Thelema. Even after his identifying of himself as "Belarion Antichrist," he relies on the fundamentals of Thelema for his bedrock. His whole function, as he sees it, is "bring all men to the law of the Beast 666" (Manifesto of the Antichrist). Crowley had made comment in Liber Aleph re: the Magi who would rise after him. He acknowledged that Magi WOULD arise-and declare their "Words"-but the same would be in agreement with Therion who declared the tenor of the Aeon as a whole with his Great Word.

Parsons seems to fit this bill, even as AC brushes him off as a lost cause.

It is absolutely worth looking at all of those who were drawn to Crowley and his Teaching during his lifetime. Crowley, himself, surely had to reflect on his entourage and their respective fates. How successful WAS his system? How many "losers" were gathered in his wake? Did he ever feel that it all must be a colossal failure, this vision and mission? Or do we finger those who he threw aside and assume that none of them could live up to his righteous way?

There IS another option, of course-and that is that Aleister Crowley (and ALL of his guises and magical names and identities)-was a link in a Chain which both preceded and follows him. And not simply a link-but one of many, all running concurrently. When he states (in Aleph) that "Words" must correspond to his own, to what Word does HIS correspond to?

No apologies for for the "Typhonianism" here but I'd like to ask...

...Crowley was grist to WHOSE mill?       


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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02/02/2012 3:38 am  

I'm actually a great admirer of some of Parson's work, most particularly where he insists that personal freedom implies personal responsibility. This is an idea that does not fully resonate with too many people, who are quite eager for the former but not so much for the latter. I like Freedom is Two-Edged Sword very much. 


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einDoppelganger
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02/02/2012 3:50 am  
"Camlion" wrote:
I'm actually a great admirer of some of Parson's work, most particularly where he insists that personal freedom implies personal responsibility...

Its like saying you really liked Charles Dickens, especially that book he wrote about class struggle in industrialized London. Thanks for your insights.


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einDoppelganger
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02/02/2012 5:58 am  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
one must choose one's battles

I don't necessarily smell a battle brewing. Parsons was one of the "fruits" of Crowley's Thelema. Even after his identifying of himself as "Belarion Antichrist," he relies on the fundamentals of Thelema for his bedrock. His whole function, as he sees it, is "bring all men to the law of the Beast 666" (Manifesto of the Antichrist). Crowley had made comment in Liber Aleph re: the Magi who would rise after him. He acknowledged that Magi WOULD arise-and declare their "Words"-but the same would be in agreement with Therion who declared the tenor of the Aeon as a whole with his Great Word.

Parsons seems to fit this bill, even as AC brushes him off as a lost cause.

It is absolutely worth looking at all of those who were drawn to Crowley and his Teaching during his lifetime. Crowley, himself, surely had to reflect on his entourage and their respective fates. How successful WAS his system? How many "losers" were gathered in his wake? Did he ever feel that it all must be a colossal failure, this vision and mission? Or do we finger those who he threw aside and assume that none of them could live up to his righteous way?

There IS another option, of course-and that is that Aleister Crowley (and ALL of his guises and magical names and identities)-was a link in a Chain which both preceded and follows him. And not simply a link-but one of many, all running concurrently. When he states (in Aleph) that "Words" must correspond to his own, to what Word does HIS correspond to?

No apologies for for the "Typhonianism" here but I'd like to ask...

...Crowley was grist to WHOSE mill?       

Great points Kyle. I have often thought it interesting that Crowley didn't seem to understand Jack. They were both from vastly different worlds. Crowley the public school boy and Jack the autodidact. Parsons, a fan of pulp sci-fi and Crowley who believed one must only read the Canon.  AC took him to task for his preoccupation with "trash literature"  but this very well of imagery and mythology fed into his magical work (in the form of MR James and the Williamson novel "Darker than you Think)

Crowley may well have considered him a failure but in hindsight AC was notoriously bad in seeing value in his students and associates.  I think Crowley was obsessed with disciples and not being a source for other creative and dynamic individuals who are branches which continue his legacy and build upon it. 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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02/02/2012 3:23 pm  

"AC took him to task for his preoccupation with "trash literature..."

Crowley also said in Confessions that he (AC) would pass the time while traveling by reading "pulp" or common detective mysteries.

It's the triad of the pot and the kettle and the color black.


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Azidonis
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03/02/2012 2:59 am  
"Shiva" wrote:
"AC took him to task for his preoccupation with "trash literature..."

Crowley also said in Confessions that he (AC) would pass the time while traveling by reading "pulp" or common detective mysteries.

It's the triad of the pot and the kettle and the color black.

He wrote them too... Simon Iff stories are awesome.


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einDoppelganger
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04/02/2012 9:25 pm  

wow...

for anyone with 20k laying about Jack's Equinox set (a gift from Smith) is now at Weiser Antiquarian
http://www.weiserantiquarian.com/catalogninetyseven/


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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05/02/2012 1:06 pm  
"Azidonis" wrote:
He wrote them too... Simon Iff stories are awesome.

Absolutely! And it appears that they're being collected and properly edited and annotated for publication this year by Wordworth.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
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05/02/2012 2:33 pm  
"lashtal" wrote:
"Azidonis" wrote:
He wrote them too... Simon Iff stories are awesome.

Absolutely! And it appears that they're being collected and properly edited and annotated for publication this year by Wordworth.

Wonderful!  I have not yet had the pleasure of being introduced to the Simon Iff stories except for his part in the widely read 'Moonchild'.  I would love to take a tour around the Simon Iff universe when it's ready.  🙂 


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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05/02/2012 4:53 pm  

apparantly someone had 20k fairly quickly. wish that was me.
and i second simon iff. i have to buy that new paperback when it comes out with all them in it. wordsworth?


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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05/02/2012 9:26 pm  
"christibrany" wrote:
and i second simon iff. i have to buy that new paperback when it comes out with all them in it. wordsworth?

Apologies for the typo - yes, Wordsworth, not Wordworth.

The Simon Iff Stories and Other Works (Tales of Mystery & the Supernatural)

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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05/02/2012 10:00 pm  

Cheers Paul, definitely looking forward to that collection. I have not read the Simon Iff stories but I hear many great things 🙂

also...Crossposting this from the HML mailing list

Speaking of both Poke and Jack...

The Hermetic Hour for Thursday February 2nd 2012 with host Poke Runyon will present a discussion on the life and times of Americas most famous and notorious c Feb 02

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-hermetic-hour/2012/02/03/jack-parsons--rocket-scientist-and-magus

the show can now be downloaded
some good points about the effects of the Babalon Workings

a recent radio show on Jack Parsons
Jack Parsons - Rocket Scientist and Magus
www.blogtalkradio.com


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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06/02/2012 2:15 am  

For US buyers, bookdepository.co.uk has it for pre-order at $3.52, free shipping worldwide:
http://www.bookdepository.com/Simon-Iff-Stories-Other-Works-Aleister-Crowley/9781840226782
As I said when The Drug came out, how it is possible to make money at such a price is a mystery.


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Walterfive
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06/02/2012 2:56 pm  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
wow...

for anyone with 20k laying about Jack's Equinox set (a gift from Smith) is now at Weiser Antiquarian
http://www.weiserantiquarian.com/catalogninetyseven/

That would be Jack's second Equinox set. The first (in white sailcloth, with uncut end-papers) he gave to Helen as a wedding present. A friend of mine bought it from her 30+ years ago when Helen was his landlord.


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Walterfive
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06/02/2012 2:59 pm  
"ignant666" wrote:
For US buyers, bookdepository.co.uk has it for pre-order at $3.52, free shipping worldwide:
http://www.bookdepository.com/Simon-Iff-Stories-Other-Works-Aleister-Crowley/9781840226782
As I said when The Drug came out, how it is possible to make money at such a price is a mystery.

0ne word: Volume. Most of these stories are in the public domain, 80-90 years after their publication. So royalties don't have to be paid to the Crowley Estate, or the copyright holder. Myself, I wish they'd be published in a better quality edition for more money, but I can't complain as to their availability.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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06/02/2012 6:19 pm  

Fair enough, Walterfive, but what I meant is that, while it is surely heartening that publishers imagine they will make up in sales volume of AC's works what they lose on each individual sale [rimshot] of these as you say likely out-of-copyright works, bookdepository then takes a % off that price & then ships it to me in the USA for less than $4?!
UK postage must be very cheap.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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06/02/2012 6:22 pm  

Another book on Parsons which contains an unique perspective of his work is The Key of the Abyss: Jack Parsons: the Babalon Working and the Black Pilgrimage Decoded, Anthony Testa, 2555 Working Group, 2006 ISBN 978-1-4303-0160-8.  I found it interesting that he interprets the Call to the 30 Aethyrs as an operation dealing with the energies of the Goddess / Babalon with which I concur.  The text also contains a concordance to Liber AL and Parson's Liber 49, the book of Babalon (the one for Liber 49 is fairly useful).  Alas, this text has been poorly edited and is rife with typos, etc., to an excessive amount rendering it almost unreadable at points.  It appears to have had a very limited circulation.  I'm curious if anyone else in the group has perused it.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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06/02/2012 6:29 pm  
"ignant666" wrote:
Fair enough, Walterfive, but what I meant is that, while it is surely heartening that publishers imagine they will make up in sales volume of AC's works what they lose on each individual sale [rimshot] of these as you say likely out-of-copyright works, bookdepository then takes a % off that price & then ships it to me in the USA for less than $4?!
UK postage must be very cheap.

I just bought it too - £2.24 including the postage.  Sometimes publishers print books off to tie up capital before April so they won't get hammered by the tax man if they've made a healthy profit elsewhere.   


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Frater_HPK
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09/02/2012 4:20 am  
"ignant666" wrote:
For US buyers, bookdepository.co.uk has it for pre-order at $3.52, free shipping worldwide:
http://www.bookdepository.com/Simon-Iff-Stories-Other-Works-Aleister-Crowley/9781840226782
As I said when The Drug came out, how it is possible to make money at such a price is a mystery.

I would suggest you to don't use bookdepository.co.uk but bookdepository.com. Very simple, the prices are lower. Why I don't know.

http://www.bookdepository.com/Simon-Iff-Stories-Other-Works-Aleister-Crowley/9781840226782


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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09/02/2012 4:24 am  

Can we move the Simon Iff related posts into the Wordsworth editions thread here? Just to keep the Parsons thread Parsons-centric? 🙂

Thx

einD


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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09/02/2012 4:33 am  
"Robert Podgurski" wrote:
Another book on Parsons which contains an unique perspective of his work is The Key of the Abyss: Jack Parsons: the Babalon Working and the Black Pilgrimage Decoded, Anthony Testa, 2555 Working Group, 2006 ISBN 978-1-4303-0160-8.  I found it interesting that he interprets the Call to the 30 Aethyrs as an operation dealing with the energies of the Goddess / Babalon with which I concur.  The text also contains a concordance to Liber AL and Parson's Liber 49, the book of Babalon (the one for Liber 49 is fairly useful).  Alas, this text has been poorly edited and is rife with typos, etc., to an excessive amount rendering it almost unreadable at points.  It appears to have had a very limited circulation.  I'm curious if anyone else in the group has perused it.

Robert,

I have this book and I too enjoyed it. It is available on Lulu and as a free PDF download here. I found it dovetailed nicely with Tyson's "Enochian Apocalypse" theory which does garner mention in the book.

While you are on Lulu you can grab the script to the Cal-Tech drama department's play about Jack called "Pasadena Babylon."  The link is here.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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09/02/2012 11:56 pm  

I always find it fascinating the dichotomy between free thinkers and restrictive jobs.  In terms of Jack Parsons, how he was against tyranny and the government of his time, as an 'ideological' Thelemite, so much so that he was investigated by the FBI and lost his clearance, yet at the same time he managed to work for the government and have a clearance (for a while). I wonder if that push and pull helped define him or feed his dislike of authoritarianism. 

From my own vantage pt in a training environment with a military, and being very much like Jack in terms of my libertarian stance on almost everything, i am finding it very hard to practise my beliefs in my personal expression and spirituality, and wonder just how he managed it...
A great character...


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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10/02/2012 1:06 am  
"christibrany" wrote:
...i am finding it very hard to practise my beliefs in my personal expression and spirituality, and wonder just how he managed it...

Jack co-founded and worked for JPL - a contractor to the US Government, he was not part of the US military itself.  As for managing the balance, in the end he really didn't - did he...  but I don't think think Jack wanted to balance anything, he wanted to see upheaval and change. Its a shame that Parsons remains an exceptional example of uncompromisingly living Thelemic ideals and not the standard.

If you want a taste of what Jack's life might have been like Chris, print up a few hundred copies of OZ and distribute them outside the PX.


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obscurus
(@obscuruspaintus)
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10/02/2012 4:19 am  

93

As we invoke Jack, Jack says,
" You should  be meticulous in all observations pertaining to the will, even the most petty. Fulfill all obligations and promises, undertake nothing which you cannot fulfill, be prompt in the discharge of each responsibility."
Extremely good advice no matter what the surroundings on the path we choose to walk.
Best wishes.

93/93


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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11/02/2012 6:56 pm  

eindoppelganger: "If you want a taste of what Jack's life might have been like Chris, print up a few hundred copies of OZ and distribute them outside the PX. "

hahahaha that made me lol
maybe i will one day!!!
Love is the Law, Love under Will  🙂


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