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Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
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23/10/2020 11:39 am  

@shiva,

Thank you for your kind affirmation regarding your response to my post. I never truly know if I am considered a total nut job when I share my experiences with other people. My desire to be accepted is probably much too high.

I try to imagine you, there in the UK, a doctor who is 20 years my senior. I am a nurse, so we have something in common. Do you like gardening? I love gardening, although I have not been able to do much of it lately.

Anyway, I have appreciated your defense of me earlier on, as well as your encouragement now. I think now that we could have some great discussions. But I digress from the thread. I will remain,

Yours fondly, 

Barbara


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Shiva
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23/10/2020 8:57 pm  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

there in the UK

I am sitting in the absolute middle of nowhere, in the Wild Wild West of Central New Mexico, a State in the United Ones, just one hour north of Trinity, the Big Bang, and only a bit more to reach Ciudad juarez, in Mexico, which used to be "The Most Dangerous City in the World," but not now.

I have never set foot on UK soil, but my ancestors did. I think they left and came here.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

Do you like gardening? I love gardening, although I have not been able to do much

Um, no. My wife does that sort of thing. I grew marijuana, once or twice. Just small stuff, not commercial.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

Anyway, I have appreciated your defense of me earlier on, as well as your encouragement now.

"There is no divergent stream within the Kingdom of Heaven." - Boarding Pass 11.8

The Pass also charges Arcania (the ancient secret societies) with the Task of Correlation, in order to demonstrate how all paths are the same (they just use different names and emblems).

As soon as somebody with a different name starts making rules to be imposed on others, The Gate of Heaven has been left behind, and we're all out here in the darkness with these absolutely crazy people running around.

In this regard, Edward Alex Alexander "Aleister" Crowley was out of his Mind, and not in the Zen sense. He set himself up as The Magus of The Aeon, who was a derivative of Revelation, "The Beast" himself. This allowed him to reconcile his childhood trauma with Jesus.

Then he went a step further, essentially "stealing" an ancient Lineage and getting away with it, and then issuing Orders, Rules, and Philosophies. The OTO was declared "different" from Freemasonry, and the A.'.A.'., although Universal, found enemies in "certain swindlers" who dared use "his" AA-emblem or letters.

Crowley was wrapped up in Thelema, and that's either a philosophy or a religion, and it not only differs from other religions, but it also condemns them.

So, you see, here in these forums we are often confronted with differences. At such times, we are not in Heaven. Most of the time, nobody's in Heaven. Heaven is just a state of mind (where there are no divergent streams).

No wonder some of Crowley's students bailed out and went a step further to find a sense of balance. No wonder you transcended this same thing.

Now, if I can just get all the transcenders to agree that all the prophets (including Crowley and Arthwaite) were just a vehicle for The Christ Consciousness (or The Bodhisattva Principle in the East) that has a spark lodged somewhere in everybody's brain, if they can find it), then the whole Order can take a step forward.

 


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Barbara Green
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24/10/2020 2:48 am  

Dear @shiva,

You are a Yankee like me! I didn’t expect that. Washington state is my home. So you grew pot? I smoked it a few times (and, yes, I did inhale) but I didn’t like it so I quit.

I didn’t understand most of what you posted after the quote from Boarding Pass. Can you put it in layman’s terms? Keep in mind that I have been steeped in Christianity for the last 41 years, so my knowledge is very narrow.

While I love sharing my faith as it has meant so much to me, I hope I have not sounded angry or rude. I truly believe that each person should be free to choose for himself, and history is so full of inquisitions, crusades, witch-hunts, etc. Jesus said to “love your neighbor as yourself.” I don’t see how persecuting anyone for their beliefs accomplishes anything, except alienation. I am not a hellfire and brimstone kind of girl.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. BTW I enjoy your sense of humor.

Barbara


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Shiva
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24/10/2020 9:32 am  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

Washington state is my home.

I have a trailer home on The Magickal Isle (San Juan Island). The least time I visited was in 2010. The time before that was 1982 (with a couple short air expeditions with consorts or friends in between). It is a genuine, built from the earth and trees up into a self-sustaining unit. Everything ran on batteries, propane, and gasoline was the back up generator - used as little as possible.

This is a pretty poor picture of my pink trailer, but around here they like you to provide proof for bold statements ...

image

I went there in '82 to resolve the final illusions at a certain point on my path.

I left my heart
in Friday Harbor,
up in the woods
above the bay.

But I went on
by aeroplano
to Gomorah once again
entering the world of mem

The men were eveil
my heart was pure
somehow I managed
to feebly endure

I am not eligible to proclaim  Washington citizen, but I have an anchor there.

Posted by: @shiva

As soon as somebody with a different name starts making rules to be imposed on others, The Gate of Heaven has been left behind, and we're all out here in the darkness with these absolutely crazy people running around.

Organized (formal structure with rules and dogma) Religion has departed from the transcendent state we are calling "Heaven" because it is a mental construction. Around here, some call heaven "samadhi." When one leaves the "Heavenly State" (it is heavenly because the conditions there are so overwhelming that the ego is temporarily dissolved.

Anything that follows re-entry in a memory of that state (but not the state itself) in mentally fabricated. People get the idea they need to spread the Word and the create churches, ashrams, lodges, temples. After a few people show up, some sort of personal contention (always) arises, so rules of conduct are laid down. It gets more physical as it goes.

The rest of my post was painting a picture of Crowley for you that showed his Beast vs Jesus archetypal performance, and how some of his (im)moral behavior (like lying) is well-known to many, if not most, of the folks here. This is not a cult. Some of my references may have been coded in terms of topic running on other threads. I am unable to comment further as my Chi meter is approaching "Empty."

Posted by: @barbaragreen

I truly believe that each person should be free to choose for himself, and history is so full of inquisitions, crusades, witch-hunts, etc.

The Establishment, which is the ruling King and his soldiers, or the Primo Ministereum with his soldiers, always seeks to stamp out trouble. Back in the darkness, witches, heretics, blasphemers and consorts of the Devil were hunted. Today it's people who are politically incorrect in race, sexual orientation, and stuff like that.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

Jesus said to “love your neighbor as yourself.”

All these injunctions, and even the Oaths of the Arcane Schools, are merely where the person attempts to live up to then because they are a reflection of that illumined state wherein one has become many. They see, feel, and realize that that the other person is them, or that they are them, because in this state, the self is universal. Everybody gets along. We certainly can't torture, kill, or villify any candidates. When one has advanced enough to look at the neighbor  and "love" him automatically, because your state allows perception of the whole ball of wax.

Anytime you want to discuss elements of Christianity, I'll be happy to correlate them to the Thelemic Structure, or the Chinese 5 elements and 8 principles, or the grades of the martialsrts, showing where they are the exact same thing, but pointing out where misconception has arisen.

 

 


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 1:33 am  

Dear @shiva,

So, you have been to my home state! My daughter’s boyfriend lives in Friday Harbor, and she spends much time there. I like your pink trailer. It is very simple and earthy.

You said, “but pointing out where misconception has arisen.” Interesting. Why would the misconception necessarily be on my part? Nevertheless, I will take up the gauntlet and accept the debate. 

The Bible says in Luke 7: 37-38: “And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, and stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.“

One thing you can’t argue with is my personal experience. These verses exemplify perfectly what has been my life for the last 41 years. I am so grateful for what God has done for me, I am willing to make a fool of myself in order to show it. What in Thelema, etc. can compare to the living God changing a life? I was so degraded that I wanted to die, and God picked me up out of the mud, cleaned me up, and set my feet on higher ground. What’s not to love?

Barbara 


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ignant666
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25/10/2020 1:09 am  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

What in Thelema, etc. can compare to the living God changing a life?

Well, that's sort of the point of Thelema too, actually.

Many of us might use slightly different words (and some would use the exact same ones), but that's what we do too. That is the point Shiva is making- all these "spiritual paths" are the same in the end.


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 1:26 am  

@ignant666,

The Bible also promises eternal life to those who believe. Does Thelema promise this also?

”For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3: 16

Crowley also aligned himself with being anti-Bible. How do you reconcile this?

Barbara


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ignant666
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25/10/2020 2:04 am  

The last thing i can possibly imagine wanting is eternal life, basking in god's love or otherwise. This to me is more of a threat than a promise. So if accepting Jesus as you have done is the sole path to this, no thank you, once again.

And if i burn in hell forever, at least i'll be with my friends. And family.

I will not list the many Old Testament stories that scared the bejesus out of me as a child, but they had the same effect on Crowley as a child, and he (unlike me, raised by atheists) had the misfortune to be raised by severe fundamentalists (Plymouth Brethern). Of course, he was "anti-Bible" (as well as able to quote long passages from memory).

And for the record, i am familiar with John 3:16, having been raised on the Bible (and having seen baseball games on TV, and even attended them, being also American), and read a good deal of it voluntarily as an adult. i also have a beloved uncle and aunt who are born-again; we have been discussing this stuff since the early '70s.


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Shiva
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25/10/2020 2:27 am  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

Why would the misconception necessarily be on my part?

No, not on your part. You seem to have a better idea of the true nature than, say, the average churchgoer ... or my parents. There is enough to read between your lines to see that you are dealing from experience, not sermon or scripture. I meant misconception in general. You and I can work out the details.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

What in Thelema, etc. can compare to the living God changing a life?

Um, God is the whole ball of wax. He/She/You does not conform to any religion or philosophy. Thelema is pretty short on a Monotheistic God, being filled with mostly AEgyptian deities and Enochian Angels.

However, the Thelemic concepts certainly changed my life. Since I have a couple books out there with all the details, I won't wade into that again. You must not look upon me as a defender of Thelema against Christianity. I'm the guy who walked out of Thelema and went over to the other side, the one best known through Alice Bailey's work. Alice was dead in '73, but that "stream" was still going strong. I went through the whole curriculum.

Alice tells the name of the first initiation is "The Birth of The Christ in the Cave of the Heart." She then goes on (for several books) to explain The Path of Initiation in terms of the adventures of The Master Jesus, who openly walked the Path in the public eye, in order to establish the opening of the fourth degree on the physical plane. She calls the 4th initiation, "The Crucixion." Thelemites know it as "Crossing the Abyss and attaining the grade of Master of the Temple."

She ends the overall exposition by stating that the Head of the Planetary Hierarchy (the Heavenly Host) is The Christ (the Eastern folks call him The Bodhisattva).

Crowley's squabble with Jesus arose out his caretakers punishing him physically "in the name of Jesus." He thus set up a whole paradigm, based mainly in the Rev of St John, where he is The Beast. I think he skipped over, or didn't care, about the part where ...

"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand.

"He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years.

"The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while." - Rev 20:1-3

There are a few folks around here, not to be named out loud, including myself, who do not buy the story of Aleister being The Great Beast, except in his own mind, and as his personal metaphor. It is a requirement that members of the A.'.A.'. (his interior society) must [quote] "acknowledge the Authority of the Beast 666 and of the Scarlet Woman as in the book it is defined, and accept Their Will as concentrating the Will of our Whole Order. They must accept the Crowned and Conquering Child as the Lord of the Aeon, and exert themselves to establish His reign upon Earth." [unquote]

I do not. So, contrary to persecutions aimed my way, I cannot be a remember of that society, even if I use its curriculum, because I cannot accept the "musts."

Yet here I am. Carrying on about Thelemic things on a Thelemicly-oriented site. LAShTAL is not a "Thelemic" site, by it's own definition.

[break] 

 


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 3:03 am  

@ignant666,

Your parents must have been very open minded to be atheists and yet raise you on the Bible.

So you’re American, too. Where do you live, if you don’t mind my asking?

I am truly sorry for anyone who was abused in the name of Jesus as Crowley was. My own mother had the same experience. Her father used to try to beat the devil out of her while the rest of the family were required to stand around and sing hymns. She and my father were both atheists, too. But they were also abusive in their own way. I chose a different path and was able by the grace of God to pass down the way of love to my own children.

You are very blessed to have a beloved aunt and uncle. I did not know my extended family at all.

So are you a Thelemite, too, or are you like Shiva and just passing through?

Barbara


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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25/10/2020 3:15 am  

I am a New Yorker, 31 years in NYC, the last 10 years 90 miles north of there. We moved a lot when i was kid, my dad being a college professor who took a while to find the right place. The New England woods was the longest one, which was 10-17.

We went to church every Sunday, and i went to Sunday school every Sunday until i was confirmed at 14; have never been to any church service that was not a wedding or funeral since confirmation (i was a very serious Thelemite by 12, and submitted under duress).

My parents were close friends with our Episcopal priest, who never evinced any very strong belief in "that stuff". My parents viewed church as a social and community obligation, "but of course no one believes any of that stuff". None of my grandparents or great-grandparents were much on church. Christianity has always sacred the shit out of me, despite my born-again aunt and uncle (who gave up on converting the rest of the family a long time ago; we will miss them as we burn in Hell).

Shiva and i are both old guys (i am 61, he is i think just turned 81); we have been into this stuff forever (me since the early '70s, him since the early '60s), and are possibly both post-Thelemites at this point, but we like to encourage and bedevil the youth, and argue with the other Thelemic old farts like ourselves.


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 4:07 am  

@ignant,

I, personally, believe John 3: 16 when it contrasts perishing with everlasting life. Or Romans 6: 23 when it contrasts death and eternal life. My view is at odds with the rest of Christendom in that I cannot believe in an eternal hell. If somebody tried to scare me with burning in hell before I got saved, I would have told then to f—- off. Never did appeal to me.

You are the same age as my husband. I am 65. I married a younger man, and my dad was sure I was robbing the cradle.

I suppose I should interject something about this thread, just to keep it on track, although I enjoy the back and forth. Mike was afraid of Christianity more than anything else, because once it took someone out of his influence, he could never get them back, seeing that they were sealed by the Holy Spirit of God.

What do your aunt and uncle believe about hell? My view is called annihilationalism, and it gives my Baptist pastor fits. I give him fits about a lot of things, though. I guess I’m just a rebel at heart still. I can give you a more detailed explanation, with arguments pro and con if you want.

Blessings,

Barbara


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ignant666
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25/10/2020 5:29 am  

I am all for the perishing, and the death, and not interesting in everlasting life. It sounds horrible. All things, including people, need to live, to flourish, and to die.

In any case, direct and frequent experience in my current lifetime of the thing you folks call god will be sufficient for me. No need for Jesus to help. You need evangelize no more; been tried; won't work; going to hell. But i appreciate the love that motivates the effort, and return it.


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Shiva
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25/10/2020 6:29 am  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

he could never get them back, seeing that they were sealed by the Holy Spirit of God.

You are using specific religious terminology here. Are you saying he actually "saw" (as in a vision or a visual perception) some form of "seal" (protection? force field?) ... or are you simply implying that he perceived the loss and his inability to regain them?

 


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Shiva
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25/10/2020 8:10 am  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

are you like Shiva and just passing through?

My credentials under my name and picture of that Hindu guy say I've been here 13+ years. I think I drove by one. The next time I parked and came in to make a post. When I left, somebody had let the air out of my tires. I think it was Ignant. Every year I inflate the tires, but by the time the fifth tire is inflated, the first one has gone flat again. So I give up and come back inside and post some more. Under the present circumstances, I am unable to leave.

As for Thelema, I went away and I came back. We have that saying in the martial arts. "He went away." That's what you say when somebody no longer shows up. It is sometimes, perhaps often, followed by, "He came back." I came back because it is the most effective, most practical curriculum around. I mean the practices. I do not mean the psychopathic philosophy of the The Beast versus Jesus. I do mean the philosophy of the individual and how the whole scenario unfolds inside each individual (not necessarily every individual).

As soon as we (anyone) starts assigning their internal drama out onto external things and peoples and stuff ... that's when either the fun or the trouble begins.

[Stop]


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 9:21 am  

@shiva,

 I actually understood your last few posts. You must have really dumbed it down as I requested.

As far as Mike goes, he could perceive a lot in the spirit realm. For a example, he knew that I was suicidal even though I had never told anyone. Where he got this knowledge, I’m not sure, but I think that it was from the demonic possession that I talked about earlier. The demon was giving him ammunition against me, so to speak.

As far as the seal of the Holy Spirit goes, I have no idea whether or not he could see it. That part was more or less my editorializing on the subject.

Barbara


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Shiva
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25/10/2020 9:37 am  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

You must have really dumbed it down as I requested.

I can hardly reed,
and I can barely right.
I sleep all day,
and I type all nite.

(I stole the framework of that from Aleister (c) Crowley).

Yes, both Ignant and I are in subdued mode, right down here on a personal levels, in a confessional mode, ready to talk about Christ.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

Where he got this knowledge, I’m not sure

Most disciples develop such psychic powers. There are practices to develop them in the curriculum I mentioned. Even Probationers (pre-any grades or degrees, except the get the number 0 (zero). Some people (a lot) are naturally empathic and can sense feelings. Others can see it in the aura ...

Posted by: @barbaragreen

but I think that it was from the demonic possession

... but I would normally challenge such a ridiculous notion. However, from what I have read here so far, I am inclined to agree with your diagnosis.

 


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 9:51 am  

@ignant666,

My evangelizing starts out in a generic sense, as was the case with my very first post on this website. But it quickly gets personal as I get to know someone. The bottom line is that I want people I care about with me in eternity.

I don’t want to be the type of finger-wagging person who says, “You better shape up or God is going to send you to hell.” Nor do I want to be the one who says it’s my way or the highway. Yes, God has given each of us a free will, but I just want you with me. 

Barbara


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Tiger
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25/10/2020 10:31 am  

I vibrate the unspeakable name in the temple.
I eat the flesh and blood of his offspring,
and pray that my sacrifices will be answered.
The internal drama swirls out,
the external scene circulates.
A maelstrom of opposing currents.
A vortex and a Void.
A pastor in fits.


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 5:21 pm  

@tiger,

 I do not understand a word you say, but I do have one question. Are you making fun of me? 


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 5:24 pm  

@shiva,

 I love the poem.

Barbara


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Jamie J Barter
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25/10/2020 5:33 pm  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

The Bible also promises eternal life to those who believe. Does Thelema promise this also?

"Aye, feast! rejoice!  There is no dread hereafter.  There is the dissolution, and eternal ecstasy in the kisses of Nu." (The Book of the Law, 2:44)

Posted by: @shiva

It is a requirement that members of the A.'.A.'. (his interior society) must [quote] "acknowledge the Authority of the Beast 666 and of the Scarlet Woman as in the book it is defined, and accept Their Will as concentrating the Will of our Whole Order. They must accept the Crowned and Conquering Child as the Lord of the Aeon, and exert themselves to establish His reign upon Earth." [unquote]

I do not. So, contrary to persecutions aimed my way, I cannot be a remember of that society, even if I use its curriculum, because I cannot accept the "musts."

But the "musts" (and anything else) are all subservient to the overriding paradigm, "The Prime Directive" if you will, that "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"; "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt" and "Do that, and no other shall say nay".

You therefore take it or leave it, accordingly. (The 'musts' are just a little tease for those who unthinkingly just obey).

Posted by: @barbaragreen

The bottom line is that I want people I care about with me in eternity. [...] Yes, God has given each of us a free will, but I just want you with me. 

"For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union.  This is the creation of the world: that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all." (The Book of the Law, 1:29-30)

Yours non-evangelically,

N Joy


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ignant666
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25/10/2020 5:39 pm  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

Are you making fun of me? 

We all wonder this, don't take it personal; Tiger is a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a Zen koan.


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 6:05 pm  

@jamie,

You quote Crowley like I quote the Bible. Do you believe that what he wrote is “scripture?”

Barbara


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Shiva
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25/10/2020 6:13 pm  
Posted by: @tiger

I vibrate the unspeakable name in the temple.

This is ferbidden. You will have to eat an equal amount of dung.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

"There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt"

Baloney. The "Beyond Will" state is described by the illustrious Frater O.M. in the popular road map, One Star in Sight.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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25/10/2020 6:43 pm  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

You quote Crowley like I quote the Bible.

Yes, I know Barbara. (You noticed!)

Posted by: @barbaragreen

Do you believe that what he wrote is “scripture?”

Yes, some of his stuff (not the limericks maybe, and perhaps not Leah Sublime...) - and providing that "scripture" is spelt, as you in fact do, with a small ''s".

Posted by: @shiva

The "Beyond Will" state is described by the illustrious Frater O.M

The state, maybe: but what is the universal law which you contest is therefore beyond 'Do what thou wilt' I would be interested to know (if that is also 'Baloney')

Posted by: @shiva

the popular road map, One Star in Sight.

Ah, but don't forget "The road map is not the territory".

Clichescripturally-quotingly yours,

N Joy


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Jamie J Barter
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25/10/2020 6:59 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

But the "musts" (and anything else) are all subservient to the overriding paradigm, "The Prime Directive" if you will, that "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"; "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt" and "Do that, and no other shall say nay".

You therefore take it or leave it, accordingly.

It should go without saying, but perhaps some might benefit for it being highlighted: This goes for everything in The Book of the Law & the A.'.A.'. as well, and every other thing else.

Parenthetically yours

NJoy


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Jamie J Barter
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25/10/2020 7:23 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

This goes for everything in The Book of the Law

Including - and especially - "The Comment"

Outside the edit time limit-ly yours,

N Joy


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Shiva
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25/10/2020 8:34 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

The state, maybe: but what is the universal law which you contest is therefore beyond 'Do what thou wilt' I would be interested to know (if that is also 'Baloney')

I do this endless thing. I continually post the Word of The Law that uniformly supersedes any and all concepts whatsover. It is the Cosmic Triumph Atu Card Thing. It is veiled by words, emblems, or numbers. Each is an independent talisman. Here are three (3) of them ...

Ain. 61. Nothing.

See also, "No Will in any direction" clause in One Star.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

don't forget "The road map is not the territory".

This particular map is the closest thing we have to an accurate description of the territory. Alice Bailey provides a parallel view in the second half of her final book. The two should be read in combination with each other in order to gain a wider theoretical view of the gauntlet everyone has entered.  I have been to the cited territories, so I have no problem in confusing the paper with the path. I try to make my points from experience, and try to keep the scripture quoting as an after-note, as in, "Look here, it says so in the Scripts."

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

"There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt"

[again] Baloney!

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
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Posts: 3339
25/10/2020 9:13 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Baloney!

The Word of a Magus.

As i said above

Posted by: @ignant666

Shiva and i are both [...] possibly post-Thelemites at this point ...

My best description of my current position might be "neo-pagan Zen Taoist who came to this point through Crowley, and thinks of religious/spiritual matters in Crowleyan terms", just as one might describe my political views as "Democratic Party-voting anarchist/socialist who thinks of political/economic matters in [small "M"] marxist terms".

I would have unhesitatingly identified myself as a Thelemite until very recently, and did so on every government form and university application (to be a student or a faculty member) i ever filled out from puberty til present. I suppose i still am.

But who is this "thou" that is supposed to be doing, and willing, all these things?

Me? Which one? That chattering monkey that is helping me type this, the snake/lizard that is so useful in fighting and gaining the knowledge of women (but is so sulky), the part that can't talk that remains when those two can be convinced to shut up, or someone else?

Note that it takes interrogation from our favorite Xian to make these things clear.


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Barbara Green
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25/10/2020 10:19 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Me? Which one? That chattering monkey that is helping me type this, the snake/lizard that is so useful in fighting and gaining the knowledge of women (but is so sulky), the part that can't talk that remains when those two can be convinced to shut up, or someone else?

This reminds me of a quote from the Bible (of course):

”But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing it into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” Romans 7: 23-24

The answer to this question is Jesus Christ.

Barbara


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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25/10/2020 10:32 pm  

@barbaragreen
No i am not making fun of you.

The pastor
that built a selfhood
reading scripture,
out of attachment;
perhaps.


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Jamie J Barter
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25/10/2020 11:19 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

"There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt"

[again] Baloney!

Yay!!  Think maybe if you say it enough times, you'll make it come true?!

Posted by: @ignant666

But who is this "thou" that is supposed to be doing, and willing, all these things?

That, of course, is the $64,000 question! (I plump for 'Ateh', personally.)

Posted by: @barbaragreen

... "O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” Romans 7: 23-24

The answer to this question is Jesus Christ.

"Strive ever to more! and if thou art truly mine - and doubt it not, an if thou art aught joyous! - death is the crown of all.  Ah! Ah! Death! Death! Thou shalt long for death.  Death is forbidden, o man, unto thee.  The length of thy longing shall be the strength of its glory.  He that lives long and desires death much is ever the King among the Kings." (The Book of the Law: 2: 72-74).

N Joy


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Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
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25/10/2020 11:25 pm  

@tiger,

I see what you are getting at now. I love my pastor dearly, but sometimes I don’t think he gets it. He was raised on the fear of hell and claims to have been saved at the age of five after hearing a hell fire sermon. 

I personally think that it is wrong to scare children into anything by threatening them with eternal torment. It doesn’t accomplish true life changes.

Why do I stay, you might ask. Because my church is as close to truth that I can find and functions like a family. I don’t think that any of us will ever find anything that exactly fits our brand of reality. We are each so unique.

Well, there’s my sermon of the hour.

Barbara


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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26/10/2020 3:05 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

... who came to this point through Crowley, and thinks of religious/spiritual matters in Crowleyan terms"

Yes. You have captured and revealed the essence of why we are both here. Personally, I promote the curriculum, because it works, and also because it's the most practical thing of its kind in print. Actually I promote the doing of the curriculum. "Examine all things; hold fast to that which is true."

I respect the philosophy, and I tend to make jokes of the Historical Hierarchy and its Biblical Archetypes. I especially like to make fun of the historical aristocratic communism that required all dues and fees paid in advance. I can claim "subject matter expert" status in this arena because I once administered that very system, successfully, for several years, by ignoring some of the stupid rules, until Kali Yuga set in and The phoenix touched off the whole experiment. It should be viewed as the "test flight" of a prototype of Thelema on the ground. The principles that kept it aloft for a self-sustained flight of four years. The three degrees were fully manifested and managed by 3=8s. After the implosion, I led the remnant into the wilderness where we set up a real-time tabernacle and we opened the fourth degree, the one that is symbolic of The World After Death

Then the props were folded and we drifted back to civilization (in a ferenghi country). I started to build a Temple and I was working on the Rites of the Fifth degree, but we (as a group), or at least I (as me), hit a bump in the road called Paroketh. It's implied in the post-IV rites, but when you hit it in real-time ground-based reality, things start getting dark really fast. The Lesser Mysteries had been completed. The Greater Mysteries would open on a higher level.

And it is my rather firm position that no other such manifestations on the ground will work, unless the hierarchy is staffed by members who have passed the curriculum (mentioned above) number by equal number. Not in some duplicity fashion. Not by appointing honorary incumbents. One needs to start from the ground and build up. Jump-claiming must be eligible for challenges by physical combat or other objective clash method suitable to the level claimed. I have now given you the secret keys mentioned in the mythical Golden Book of how to manifest Thelema, in a horizontal manner, synchronized vertically, so that the expansion is really real and not a bunch of "made up" nonsense. 

Posted by: @barbaragreen

”But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind ...

Exactly.

 

 


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Jamie J Barter
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26/10/2020 6:43 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @shiva

Baloney!

The Word of a Magus.

No! - the Word of a (self-confessed) "Con" man.*

N Joy

* (i.e. a man who, like U.G., believes that everything spiritual amounts to an almighty con game)


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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26/10/2020 7:47 pm  

I sense such a mix-up in the impersonal personal aggression syndrome that is being misinterpreted and flung about in suicidal despair. I may have to go over to that Sandwich thread and call in the robot, the dog, or the whole SWAT Team with BBs.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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26/10/2020 7:52 pm  

Baloney!

Baloney, the whole Baloney, and nothing but the Baloney-ly yours!

N Joy


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Posts: 2738
26/10/2020 8:20 pm  

@jamiejbarter

 

You're so British. I capitalised it, see.

 

It's not baloney. It's balogna.

 

From Italy.

 

It tastes bad.

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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26/10/2020 8:32 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

It tastes bad.

Oh, you poor benighted Westerner. With 90%+ of baloney/balogna/bologna, i am with you.

But in Pennsylvania, thanks to the Amish, they have the ambrosial substance known as Lebanon bologna; can be purchased here. Not available in NYC, except at one store, and then they went out of business.

One of the finest things, among many, about food in Philly/Pa, along with cheese steaks, scrapple, shad roe, and sticky buns (get your mind out of the gutter soldier).


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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26/10/2020 9:41 pm  

@ignant666

 

 

Hooah Sergeant but bologna has always tasted liked shit to me.

 

Too much salt.

 

And

Gross

 

 

Its snowing like a fuckermother but the fires ares still going.

 

There goes my our anniversary trip.

 


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Serpent 252
(@serpent252)
Member
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Posts: 172
27/10/2020 12:26 am  

Anno 116., Sol in 4° Scorpio, Luna in 15° Pisces
Dies Martis, October 27, 2020 e.v., 1:11:25 AM, Full Moon

 

@jamiejbarter

Hamako ita hama ustedo. Qudra Kuppa Hamastado? Hismi kano mutullo seka Frater Shiva. Suna jassa akodamo. Hisput nanoka immediatis. Supilo sama hito panudd ho deta. Mehi ruqoo tota semantilo. Se keda butano.

 

@shiva

Mino hamma su home tado. Si 81 waha hramudato. Koso tewwy se keda butano.

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3339
27/10/2020 12:30 am  

Paul does not not allow posts in Esperanto, Swahili, Klingon, or other ferenghi lingos. If you persist he will smite you.

Please wash your mouth out with soap, and repost in whiter words.


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Serpent 252
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Posts: 172
27/10/2020 1:02 am  

@ignant666

I am sorry, your honour. I've felt I've been speaking-in-tongues, yet I've understood the meaning of the "words" somehow.

 

Posted by: @ignant666

In some Mayan (Mexican indigenous/Indian) cultures, the village chief is only the chief if he is drunk.

 

I am sorry, your honour, I haven't been drunk. Otherwise, some strange drugs have been mixed (not mixed-up). Come on, my dear Tangin comrade, I use soap only for hand washing. If anyone addressed in my post above ask for the meaning, I can say the words used in the said post express only the honour & my respectfulness toward Jamie.'. & Fr.Shiva.'.

And this very post expresses the same sentiments toward you, Ignanat666.'.

Let everybody achieve. Good health to all beings. All the best/beast.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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27/10/2020 1:11 am  

The only bit I got was where he (you; Serpent 252) appeared to be calling Shiva the "damn son of a jackass"?

Posted by: @serpent252

Frater Shiva. Suna jassa akodamo.

Refraining from comment either way,

N Joy


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posts: 5341
27/10/2020 8:06 am  
Posted by: @serpent252

se keda butano.

It's snowing pretty hard here. Only a few months early. Don't worry about the climate change until next year. So we have our heater on.

It uses Methane, not Butane.

Please translate your entire post into English, so we stop confusing the gases.

 


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Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
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27/10/2020 8:03 pm  

I’m going to throw out questions that anybody who wants to can answer: What drew you to the path you are currently on? Do you feel led by a “higher power?” What is the appeal?

@ignant, you said that you were a serious Thelemite by age 12. How did you find out about Crowley at such a young age?

@shiva, you are into a variety of things: oriental medicine, martial arts, Thelema, etc. How do you blend it all together into one whole?

@jamie, who quotes Crowley like scripture, are you into anything else besides Thelema?

Mind you, these are just curiosity questions. No ulterior motive. No evangelization. Just a “get to know you” discussion. I like to know what makes people tick.

I will be the first to answer to get the ball rolling. I heard about Crowley because of Jimmy Page. I was a serious Zeppelin fan (still am), and I read an article about Page owning Boleskine house. So this was enough motivation for me to look into Crowley. I then came upon Mike’s periodicals in an occult bookstore in London, and the rest is as previously discussed in this thread.

So here I am, throwing out the questions, hoping we can have some good discussions.

Barbara


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3339
27/10/2020 8:21 pm  

Hippie bookstores, the library at the university where my dad worked, and curiosity and interest in spiritual matters. I was also reading everything i could find about witchcraft, magic/magick, alchemy, Eastern religion, Christian heretics, secret societies, and related topics. I was also heavily into left/anarchist politics at a very young age.

To answer your three general questions: See previous paragraph; yes; and because it worked.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5341
27/10/2020 8:45 pm  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

How did you find out about Crowley at such a young age?

They are called "Books."

Posted by: @barbaragreen

How do you blend it all together into one whole?

They are all the same thing. There is only One, Natural Spectrum of Consciousness. There is no Divergent Stream in the Kingdom of Heaven. I keep beating this same drum, but other people want to separate the One Spectrum into many copies and give it names and numbers.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

I was a serious Zeppelin fan (still am)

Serious Z fans take LSD. Have you?

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Posts: 1656
27/10/2020 9:31 pm  
Posted by: @barbaragreen

@jamie, who quotes Crowley like scripture,

Only to you though, Barbara - on that you can check back through this website to see for yourself! ("Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; and all their words are skew-wise": The Book of the Law, 2: 28).

Posted by: @barbaragreen

are you into anything else besides Thelema?

I presume you mean other religious philosophies/ systems of belief rather than e.g. books, films, music, etc.  Off the top of my head: Taoism (of which Thelema could be considered Taoism in action).  The ideas behind Korzybski's "General Semantics". Gurdjieff's Enneagram. Wilhelm Reich. Etc.

Posted by: @barbaragreen

What drew you to the path you are currently on? 

I suppose "The wind kinda just pushed me this way" (to quote Somewhere down the Crazy River)

Posted by: @barbaragreen

Do you feel led by a “higher power?”

Sometimes (when I'm in the right mood).

Posted by: @barbaragreen

What is the appeal?

The joy from interpreting and adapting to every event correctly when ever/ as it happens.

Just to

Posted by: @barbaragreen

throw out questions a question

in return myself: Do yo think that your religious worship of J.C. is more than anything else a sort of quid pro quo by way of expression of gratitude in return for getting your life with a sense of purpose in it back, and if you were to later on change it (say to another religion) would that betrayal be enough to 'damn' you at the last Judgement call?

N Joy


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