Notifications
Clear all

The man behind Amado Crowley  

Page 8 / 9
  RSS

Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
18/06/2019 5:30 am  

@tiger:

Thank you for the apology. No permanent harm done. Please forgive me too if I have offended you (or anyone else) with my fanatical religion. I truly do understand what it's like to be on the other side of the fence.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4097
18/06/2019 6:16 am  

jb: I’ll have to look it up

I won't, because I dunno at all. Your JC (Cornelius) suggestion is good. But I certify under holey oath that saiod story exists and I have read it.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4097
18/06/2019 6:49 am  

There is no fence in Eden. The Kingdom of Heaven is Within YOU.

That being said, I see that my reckless rhetoric that claims there's just one path seems to fall back into differences. Since we are all infinite (well, IF we have a number), and thus there is no difference, how can there be differences?

Ultimately, at the further inward plains of our brains, there exists a direct perception that there is no difference. It's called samadhi (sam = with / adhi = that confusing "h" the scholars put in adi, the primordial [first] dawn of consciousness). That dawn is spelled I AM = 51. Then it gets triplified in a supernal triad (trinity) and is called Atma = 51. See? There's no difference, even in low-level QBL.

But down here ("out here" in reference to our inner-brain-state), there's all kind of differences floating around. I don't live in a state of no difference. I can tell a pig from a cow, but I remember being shown, by myself, that non-difference.

I'll bet a dollar against anyone's donut that a lotta posters and readers around here have seen that same non-difference, either in meditation, borderline terminal near-death, or self-poisoning with chemicals or plants. Once someone has seen the "star-sponge" (aka Indra's net), they at least have a basis upon which to shape their own theology.

We don't want to confuse this with the Foundation (Yesod), because Yesod is the foundation of the dense vehicle ... with it's mind included in the superstructure. Whereas Indra and his Net are the "foundation" of the non-Self. It gets confusing, doesn't it? Well, if you (anyone) understands what I'm saying, then Welcome to the Club. Your membership pin will arrive as soon as you pay your fee. If you (anyone) think I'm babbling and might need help, then you can't join the club (yet). But you can still pay the fee, and hope your tithe buys you into samadhi.


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1855
18/06/2019 9:15 am  

@barbara

Imo your proselytising on what the Bible says 'so it must be true' about (the apparent error) of homosexuality (a minority group) is far more hostile than a few guys on a forum who you think are 'taking the piss'.


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
18/06/2019 9:38 am  

@Jamie:

I totally agree with you about an eternal hell being inconsistent with a supposedly loving god. In fact, if anyone would have preached that to me before I got saved, I would have told them to "f___ off." I have struggled with this concept ever since I became a Christian, and have tried to make sense of what the Bible says, because, quite frankly, it is not totally clear on the subject. All of my friends believe in a literal. eternal hell, so I am the odd man (woman) out at our church. My best friend says she was saved by the fear of hell, a concept I totally don't get. I even feel uncomfortable as I write this because nobody sees it quite like I do, and majority rules, right? Also, I don't want to tell you any lies. Well here goes:

"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

These scriptures contrast death and perish with eternal/everlasting life. They do not say The wages of sin is eternal torment in hell.

Where did the concept of hell come from, then? That will be for next time if you are interested. It's midnight and I'm tired.


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
18/06/2019 9:49 am  

@dom:

It is not my habit to bring up controversial topics like that out of the blue, but somebody asked point blank, so I told him what the Bible says. That is all. Your beef is not with me, it's with God.

.


ReplyQuote
wellreadwellbred
(@wellreadwellbred)
Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 941
18/06/2019 10:54 am  

Barbara, you yourself lived one and a half years on a farm (where also other persons in their early 20s lived) together with your "guru" Mike/Amado Crowley, and you are still not sure about Mike's outside job at that time, as you "... never had the courage to ask him." You also state that one might think it crazy that you stayed so long with so little benefit.

Based on my impression of persons in their early 20s in present time in Norway, it must have become more difficult for shady 'gurus' to take advantage of them over longer periods of time, as nearly all persons over twenty years old in present time in countries comparable to England, have much better access to information and data than you had while living at Mike Walker’s commune in Farnham, Surrey in 1978-1979. (Also, a group that is known to demand controll over your access to information and data if you become a member of it (akin to the Church of Scientology in present time), is likely to set off alarm bells for any prospective member(-s).)


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3885
18/06/2019 11:23 am  

@dom

Really? You seem to have a problem following what is actually written. I was actually responding to bgreen’s post below;

I don't have a problem "following what is actually written". It's extremely easy to make clear to what post or section of a post you are responding: you simply quote it or refer to it in your post. Sometimes you do that, sometimes you don't; it makes "following what is actually written" easier when you do.


ReplyQuote
elitemachinery
(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 444
18/06/2019 1:06 pm  

Crowley students and Thelemites come from a variety of studies/teachings/backgrounds so trying to peg the religion/philosophy might be unfruitful. But I think most here would agree that any religion that claims to be the "one true religion" or have access to the "one true God" is doing things the "old way" and doesn't "get it" and is part of the problem not the solution.

The fact that religious groups around the world claim to have the "Truth" (with a capitol T) and damn all others is simply evidence that each group is protecting it's interests. Truth seekers listen to all sides and form their own opinions and develop their own religious practices that work for them. They don't damn others or kill those that disagree with them. To know if someone truly is spiritual you need only look at how they treat those who disagree with them.

Crowley's hate for the church stemmed from his upbringing and the fact that the church had a stranglehold on people's minds. Therefore he chose to be an anti-Christ like figure.

Many people in their early 20s apprentice and/or volunteer at spiritual centers or in various fields of expertise or trades in order to get a head start in their selected field. Your experience sounds no different. Sometimes apprenticeships actually cost the apprentice money in addition to their valuable time. Apprenticeships are considered a privilege and are highly coveted in many fields. You decided that Amado's gang wasn't for you. You did not get what you felt you deserved or were led to believe things at the center worked differently than you later found out they worked. So you left. Sounds like that was the right choice for you. Perhaps other women and men at the center had a different experience?

Your insights and stories about Amado are much appreciated, but it does sound like you didn't get to know him very well and that your intention here is more an act of spite or settling a long held grudge than anything else. And/or you desire to prove to yourself and others that Amado's path was wrong and that the path you chose was right. Granted, Amado is long gone so win or lose you get the last laugh.

For something to be true for you or I does not mean that those that disagree are bad or wrong or going to hell. Truth is an individual experience and what is true for anyone evolves over time. Until we can grasp that collectively there will be no peace.

If a good writer puts enough well thought out words together eventually the writing will have predicted something or ring some truth bell and gain followers quoting the writing as the "gospel." This includes all Holy books and the Book of the Law. We are all guilty myself included of quoting from the Book of the Law here on Lashtal. When all holy books have been burned and are no longer quoted from then perhaps there will be some peace. But "Do what thou wilt" does provide a wide girth for anyone to find their True Will or True Path in any philosophy or religion. So that's what we use around here. It sounds like you've found your path and your True Will. Rejoice!

Your insights and stories are appreciated and we'd love to see that photo if you can upload it. Thanks for being a good sport overall. It's 10 to 1 against you here as you are an outsider at Lashtal and you've held up pretty well thus far.


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
18/06/2019 3:23 pm  

@elitemachinery:

Thank you for the last paragraph of your missive. I appreciate the encouragement. I actually agree with you overall. People who claim they have the only way to enlightenment drive me crazy, too. But I have found something so good and so satisfying that I can't help but share it even though it gets me into trouble.

You are right that I didn't get to know Mike very well. The men knew him a lot better. As for others getting something of value from Mike, all I know is that our group was small and like a revolving door. Even the student that was closest to Mike left before I did, stating that Mike wanted a relationship with him that he couldn't give him.

Thank you for your insights.


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
18/06/2019 11:27 pm  

@Jamie:

Luke 16:19-31 describes an encounter between a rich man and a poor man in which the rich man went to hell, and the poor man went to paradise. Hell is described as a place of fire and torment. Many people think that this is just a parable, many don't. The general consensus at least is that hell is a place where the unrighteous dead go to wait until the resurrection of judgement.

Revelation 20:14 says "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." This tells me that hell, and all the people in it, are annihilated (perish) at the second death. Worst case scenario is that hell is a place of torment for a time, but that it ends in death. Very few in the Christian world believe this, preferring to believe that hell is torment forever. I am not one of them.

I know that this still seems harsh, but when you think of all of the people who have perpetrated evil on their fellow man in their lifetimes, it makes a little more sense. God does not want evil to live forever. If the end result is a sinless heaven with no hatred, violence, etc., wouldn't you want that, too.

Barbara


ReplyQuote
dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1855
18/06/2019 11:36 pm  

Barbara, you yourself lived one and a half years on a farm (where also other persons in their early 20s lived) together with your “guru” Mike/Amado Crowley, and you are still not sure about Mike’s outside job at that time, as you “… never had the courage to ask him.” You also state that one might think it crazy that you stayed so long with so little benefit.

What??!!

Was this like a cult?


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
18/06/2019 11:43 pm  

To everyone:

Please do not shoot the messenger over my last post to Jamie. I was just answering a question. Hell is a topic I avoid mostly, as I do not like to talk about it. I far prefer preaching about the love of God. God drew me with His unrelenting love, not with the fear of hell, and that is what I like to talk about.

Barbara


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
18/06/2019 11:59 pm  

@dom:

Yes it was like a cult. I was lucky to get away. God provided for me during this time in amazing ways, which I will share with you if you would like to know.

Barbara


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 12:06 am  

Hello Barbara
Has it occurred to you that you might possibly be the subject of flattery in order to cajole you into supplying these photos? Doesn't it concern you that you are the only person in ten years that is doing so? Apart from which, there might be people living who find your disregard offensive, even disrespectful of the dead? You only 'knew' Amado for a year. Many knew him much longer. What constructive purposes could publishing the photo of his dead mother, after so long?

Forgive me, but I find your declarations of love empty, if not hypocritical.

Apart from which, I find it hard to imagine why some of you are circling around something similar to voyeurs, like vampires. 😉 If you are so sure Amado was irrelevant, why are you so morbidly curious?
@Barbara: Proverbs 25:9-10

Argue your case with your neighbor, And do not reveal the secret of another, Or he who hears it will reproach you, And the evil report about you will not pass away.


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
19/06/2019 12:23 am  

@Barbara
" I have struggled with this concept ever since I became a Christian, and have tried to make sense of what the Bible says, because, quite frankly, it is not totally clear on the subject. All of my friends believe in a literal. eternal hell, so I am the odd man (woman) out at our church. My best friend says she was saved by the fear of hell, a concept I totally don’t get."

just my 2cents
Some think it is a morally corrupt spiritual practice to obey the father because one is afraid that the old man is going to punish you for being yourself .
some think heaven and hell are states of mind; and some have trafficked their corner of the labyrinth.
When the ego dies the eternal/everlasting life is resurrected` .
and it matters not where you will end up .


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3885
19/06/2019 12:30 am  

@henrypearce

I'm not a voyeur, nor a vampire, so far as I know. The photograph of Amado which Barara posted earlier in this thread was helpful because it established that the man who Barbara knew as Mike was the Amoda that I and others met. I'm not interested in the photograph of his mother, but fail to see why its uploading would be so offensive. You might care to avert your gaze, however; we'd understand

Amado claimed to be the son of Aleister Crowley, but could never substantiate that claim. Personally I thought it an irrelevant claim, but some don't. You seem very defensive.


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
19/06/2019 12:39 am  

@henrypearce:

Yes, I have considered the possibility of impropriety regarding posting Mike's mother's photo. That is why I did not post it when I first thought to do so. I will reconsider doing so at your request.

Barbara


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 1:00 am  

@Michael Staley

No. Not defensive. I care. And I respect the dead. Would you turn a blind eye if the private life of your stated teacher was being thrown around by people who never knew him like you did?

You made your choice Michael. You made up your mind Amado was irrelevant. You rejected him ... or you might have even failed a test ... just as Barbara seems to have. Both of your examples are typical of what pretty well every student went through with Amado. I too was put to a similar test and decided to find a way to work through it. It was worth it. I don't care much for Aleister. He was long dead before I started my search.

I never paid much attention to Amado's claims because they couldn't be proved. And he never insisted I believe him. Amado's teachings, in the end had nothing much to do with Aleister's. If I had read Liber Lucis before I met the old guy, I would have steered clear. But I met him before I read anything about him His late teachings bared very little resemblance to what Barbara knew or whatever impressions you might have got back then. He moved on.

For what it's worth Aleister has been slandered too. Nobody here met him either.

You seem to have had found your teacher. Aren't you happy with what you found? You say it is helpful to recognise the photo. I don't see how it could be helpful. Why would you need a photo for confirmation of your estimation from so long ago?

Apropos: If Aleister left a "Moonchild", Amado didn't ... as far as I know. He left no progeny behind. He told me. He had one wife. I have no reason to disbelieve him in this regard ... well, he actually never lied to me, personally.


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 1:07 am  

@Barbara

Well, I couldn't ask more than appeal to your conscience. It is in your hands then. x


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 1:10 am  

People do move on. Whatever mistakes they might have made, people can redeem themselves ... or at least die trying. Nobody has been perfect thus far. Perhaps someone like Jesus might have been? I don't know. We are all creations in the making, incomplete. What are we if we don't show some compassion in the meantime?


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 1:15 am  

Krishnamurti denounced the teachings of Bailey and the Theosophists without necessarily spitting on the graves of those who initially 'nurtured' him. Every new teacher will challenge the teachings of his predecessor. That is the history of philosophy and religion. It is evolution. Dogma deadens the creative quest.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4097
19/06/2019 2:42 am  

hp: Has it occurred to you that you might possibly be the subject of flattery in order to cajole you into supplying these photos? Doesn’t it concern you that you are the only person in ten years that is doing so?

Who admited the cynical circus clown (CCC)? Elite's "flattery" was sincere, and I agree with him. We see newcomers on a regular basis. Anyone who is "important" (in their own eyes) and boastful usually runs a short course and then runs for the hills (or India). Barbara is obviously sincere, not boastful at all, and it is really remarkable that she is hanging in there (here). This is the Octagon. There are rules (guidelines), but they're simple enough. Otherwise, it's NO HOLDS BARRED (no eye gouging or groin attacks. I have seen no flattery delivered (i.e., false praise). You are being cynical and paranoid. I am a doctor and, it Says so in the Psychological Manual.

Apart from which, there might be people living who find your disregard offensive, even disrespectful of the dead?

Oh, give us and me a break! The dead are often subjects of hilarity, just like Christianity, Thelema, Islam, Idolatry, Communism, and the Blues Brothers. People without a sense of humor are making slow progress. There is nothing sacred enough to avoid humor.

"The day will come when you stand before the Throne of Judgment. Approaching the glorious figure seated on the Throne ... just make sure your pants are zipped!"
- Frater Shem, circa 1968

There's more, lot's more. But I have these other posts to review, having blinked (for a few hours) and returned to find all manner of interesting posts.

T: some think heaven and hell are states of mind; and some have trafficked their corner of the labyrinth.

Everyone who has been baptized in the River Jordan (2nd initiation, 2=9) has been dipped in the River Tuat. Get it? The initiate has to cross the burning ground. It's not pleasant (at times). The Kingdom of Heaven is within You. So is the Pit of Hell. Any psychonaut worth their salt (and salt is relatively cheap these days) has seen visions of hellfire and the glories of Heaven.

bg: I will reconsider doing so at your request.

The guy (hp) is jerking you around. He is more dangerous than Us or the Lions. You should post or not-post according to your inner direction, without ridiculous concepts of "offending the dead."

hp: No. Not defensive. I care. And I respect the dead.

You are a morally-deranged clown who should get back to the Circus before it leaves town. You have no concept of Yama-Niyama. You care about dead people's ... what? ... feelings? ... image? ... reputation. Barbara in sincere, and so are you. But she's sincere about her spiritual path, while you are sincere about meddling in other people's affairs. You are paranoid and pickersnitty; if you become defensive, then we'll have to consult a judge about your commitment.

You only ‘knew’ Amado for a year. Many knew him much longer. What constructive purposes could publishing the photo of his dead mother, after so long?

It seems like you're acting as a passive censor. What good will it do to interfere in the Will of another?

Forgive me, but I find your declarations of love empty, if not hypocritical.

As the preacher said to the heckler: How dare you?

Apart from which, I find it hard to imagine why some of you are circling around something similar to voyeurs, like vampires.

Your lack of imagination nether concerns us (me, at least), nor is it a sign of Kingly demeanor. I see you have chosen to enter the Octagon as a prime contender.

hp: I don’t care much for Aleister. He was long dead before I started my search.

So ... even you have no respect for the dead. Uh,oh ... hypocriticalism.

hp: You seem to have had found your teacher. Aren’t you happy with what you found?

I don't think she was happy with the homesexual, patriarchal, labor camp.

I hope this post has internal continuity. If anything slips around in anyone's mind ("What? Is he crazy?), it's because I had to cut and paste more than is normal or reasonable. I have lost my mind. I find it again, intermittently, and so I can post on LAShTAL. But it's embarrassing to lose one's way in a long post.


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
19/06/2019 3:34 am  

Jai Shiva !

@henrypearce
are you sure you passed the test ?
check your mind .
Michael and Barbara clearly have passed the test .


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
19/06/2019 5:53 am  

HI Barbara

“Has it occurred to you that you might possibly be the subject of flattery in order to cajole you into supplying these photos? Doesn’t it concern you that you are the only person in ten years that is doing so? Apart from which, there might be people living who find your disregard offensive, even disrespectful of the dead? You only ‘knew’ Amado for a year. Many knew him much longer. What constructive purposes could publishing the photo of his dead mother, after so long?

Forgive me, but I find your declarations of love empty, if not hypocritical.

Apart from which, I find it hard to imagine why some of you are circling around something similar to voyeurs, like vampires. 😉 If you are so sure Amado was irrelevant,”

Don’t believe him.
He sounds like a vampire .


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4097
19/06/2019 6:54 am  

T: Michael and Barbara clearly have passed the test .

Damn, I missed the test. Can I schedule a make-up exam?

T: He sounds like a vampire.

Maybe. But let's exercise compassion ... and merely assume he's working his way through Probation or maybe the Tuat. It gets so confusing, you know, and sometimes folks get dogmatic, or super-sensitive, or they want to exercise control over other folks. By the way, Tiger, I don't think you exercise enough respect for the dead. Why you'd probably post a pic of Aleister, if you thought it was necessary. It's a good thing I'm so pure, and never deliver sarcasm - that way I can keep you on the RIGHT path and advise you of the error of your ways. I therefore warn you sternly: Do not publish any pictures of any dead people! You get that?

dead person


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 7:32 am  

@shiva
You are being cynical and paranoid. I am a doctor and, it Says so in the Psychological Manual.

"Shiva", your personal profile and your writing is colourful and entertaining. Who's being cynical? Doesn't sarcasm and hyperbole disguise such tendencies? You might be a psychologist, but it doesn't mean you are employable as one. Clearly their are some bad ones. And if you are one, then are you a good one, or an accurate one? I certainly wouldn't subject myself to you online if I was looking for one.

Ad hominem attack might provide refuge for a groundless position. Where's the discussion of Amado's teachings. You don't know me but you are assuming a lot about me. Forgive me, I am not a psychologist, but isn't that called projection? And yes, Amado was a practicing psychologist and he had his way of pointing that out to us. Clearly, he failed in my case ... according to your analysis. Perhaps I have betrayed my own facetiousness. Cynicism is not the same as scepticism.


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 7:37 am  

This was a duplicate.


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 7:38 am  

@shiva
hp: I don’t care much for Aleister. He was long dead before I started my search.
shiva: So … even you have no respect for the dead. Uh,oh … hypocriticalism.

No. I haven't shown disrespect for him. I said I didn't care for him. I never knew him. Nor am I speaking ill of him. If I had time, I might attempt to say something about his work but that would not be the same as making insinuations about him.


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3885
19/06/2019 10:25 am  

@henrypearce

You're way off-beam.

Would you turn a blind eye if the private life of your stated teacher was being thrown around by people who never knew him like you did?

There is a great deal of interest in Kenneth Grant, and it is growing. Because we live in an age where many people focus on personalities, there is an interest in many aspects of his life. I accept that. I am protective of the privacy of his widow and son, but beyond that it doesn't bother me. Previously-unseen photographs of him emerge from time to time, or perhaps an aspect of his private life comes to the fore, but I don't see what's wrong with that. Clearly you and I are hewn from very different rock.

You made your choice Michael. You made up your mind Amado was irrelevant.

Your statement is presumtuous and untrue. In an issue of Liber Lucis Amado stated that he was not only Crowley's son and anointed successor, but was the Messiah for the New Aeon, Crowley being akin to John the Baptist, come to prepare the way for Amado. I was unable to accept this claim when first reading it. Soon after, there was a public meeting in a hall in the Trafalgar Square area of London. Afterwards, there was a further meeting in a park. Amado recognised me, and after a brief conversation he asked me if I accepted that he was the Messiah for the New Aeon. I said that no, I didn't. He then brought into the conversation a young man to whom I had been speaking earlier. Amado asked him what he thought: should I be accepted as a student? The young man looked at me and said that in his opinion I was mentally unstable, and should not be accepted. So I failed the test on two counts, it seems. Personally I'm glad, because shortly after that my life took a very different turn.

It is clear from my posts in this thread that although I did not accept his claims, I respected his published work and still do as part of my development. I suggest that you get off of that high horse.

You say it is helpful to recognise the photo. I don’t see how it could be helpful. Why would you need a photo for confirmation of your estimation from so long ago?

The photograph was posted by Barbara because some participants in this thread thought that "Mike" and Amado might be two separate persons and, since I had met Amado twice in the early 1970s, I would be able to establish that they were indeed one and the same person. It wasn't helpful to me to "recognise the photo", and it certainly wasn't "for confirmation of [my] estimation from so long ago"; I'd be interested to know how you came to these conclusions from what I said.


ReplyQuote
ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2410
19/06/2019 12:49 pm  

It seems to me that a photo of "Amado's" mother is of at least some historical interest, since "Amado" claimed that this woman was impregnated by AC.

Did no one ever ask his mother about the circumstances of his begetting, since she was part of the milieu of his cult/commune/following? Did she too make the claim that she had been Crowley's lover?

Obviously, it would not be very strong evidence that the claim that Mike was AC's son was true if she did support Mike's claim (since she could be in on the scam), but it would be strong evidence the claim was false if she did not say so.


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 9:11 pm  

For Gawd's sake: duplicated again.


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
19/06/2019 9:16 pm  

@MichaelStaley

Clearly you and I are hewn from very different rock.

"Oh why was I not made of stone like thee". 😉

But why would anyone expect us to be? Isn't that the point? Whoever Amado claimed he was - and for whatever reasons - I was able to sidestep what seemed to me to be an idiosyncrasy. But haven't 'they' all been a bit idiosyncratic? Certainly individual. What could we gain from being like them? Not much.

I suppose it is good you got something from those early writings. But to me those roneod copies seemed a little like some sort of adolescent chest thumping in relation to what he produced at the end. His work matured.

For Aleister, Mount Everest might have been proof of his vigor, in turn a metaphor, but now there are queues of followers, choking the paths and expiring in the process. That seems to me to be what the occult path has become. It needs a different tack ... in my high seated opinion. 😉

If every man and woman is a star, why would anyone want to resurrect and emulate the Theosophists, Grant, Crowley or even Amado - if for the sake of the argument we assume that he was in the same "league" - when they are well and truly dead? When each and everyone of us, who never will be seen again on this earth, are meant to realize our 'own' potential? Should students be trying to emulate a dead man through his writings? - Sayeth he from his burnished throne!

The good thing about having a living teacher, as you no doubt discovered, is the fact that you can have a bit of a chat and do some fact checking. The written works of occultists are highly creative to say the least ... and people are free to translate them through their own filters, biases and delusions of grandeur ... while overlooking the hard toil of the subjective work they need to be doing on themselves along the way. How does a beginner tease out the actual doctrine - not dogma - from the teacher's expression of their own subjective experience ... when the author is dead and beyond queries? Did I hear someone say, conduct a seance? Take improvisation classes? The written word is dead and the hand that writ them has moved on.

Get off my high horse? Well, fair enough. But perhaps you might cut me a bit of slack when I am perhaps exhibiting a natural emotional response. I am only human.

I don't see myself as an occultist in the way that some people seem to here. While Amado ran small groups, he discouraged us from making certain comparisons. I never saw such a disparate lot of students. I tapped one vein. As already indicated on this forum, others took an entirely different vascular root. Not hewn of the same? Probably a good sign.


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
19/06/2019 10:51 pm  

@henrypearce
So can you give us your take on what happened in the communes;
and what you got out of your time spent with Amado ?
Is Amado what you called him ?

Are his students still active and organized ?
If so what are they doing ?


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4097
19/06/2019 11:03 pm  

hp: Who’s being cynical? Doesn’t sarcasm and hyperbole disguise such tendencies?

No, no, you don't understand. I am slice (a cull/cult, sect/section, part/partition, non-occult/not hidden) of the pie, called humanity, that would exercise pure anger, and employ physically destructive techniques, when they/we/I encounter someone with especially thick folds and veils, and who suffer from opacity of the lower sheaths. I think the third Chapter of Liber AL is a better read than The Revelation of Saint John, who surely must have been eating those little mushrooms that grow in the promised land and have been linked to The Sermon on the Mount.

You might be a psychologist, but it doesn’t mean you are employable as one.

No, no, you don't understand. I am not a psychologist. Never said Aiwass, um, I was. Let's look at who I am in my earthly outer manifestion. I am a licensed physician, a Doctor of Oriental Medicine. I have also earned a PhD in Education and a Doctorate in Botanic Medicine. I hold two Master's degrees, a Baccalaureate, and an Associate degree (in which I minored in psychology).

All physicians get enough training in psychology to know when to refer a loose-screw patient. Or a tight-assed one as well (anal retention syndrome). So, of course, I'm not employable in the shrinking field. In three (3) months, I will celebrate my 80th birthday, so you see I'm not employable anywhere for anything ... except maybe for an occasional consultation. I have outlived Frater Aquarius and Frater Perdurabo. I have come to the end of the Path, and I know what is (not) there, and I have consciously, of my own free-will, rejected the Ascension into another realm in order to come back and help other folks get started. There is no need to encourage or teach any aspirant who has reached their own Transfiguration (Tiphereth, 5=6), so my field of endeavor is limited to the Great Outer Order of humanity, which is not very many folks when compared to how many clones/muggles/common-people/troglodytes/low-men there are in the world.

Thank you for the opportunity to reveal my brief autobiography to you and any interested reader(s). Now, as you surely must know, Shiva has three phases - just like everything else. Let's set aside megalomania or superegotism, because I don't pretend to be Lord Shiva, who (like Thoth) seems to stand behind other godly manifestations. Me, I'm just a channel, a hollow tube down which cosmic fire can flow. The name Shiva was not chosen. It was thrust rudely upon me. Says so in Inside Solar Lodge.

However, like the traditional "Lord" Shiva, I have three phases: (1) Shiva the Householder. Yeah, down here in Malkuthland. Lord Shiva lived in a house with Parvati ...

Sati-Parvati appears in the epic period (400 BC-400 AD), as both the Ramayana and the Mahabharata present Parvati as Shiva's wife. But he also has a consort named Kali. Shiva and Parvati had two sons, Ganesha (the Elephant guy - the Hindoo Dumbo) and Kartikeya (also known as Murugan, Skanda, Kumara, and Subrahmanya, is the Hindu god of war). - Wikipedia

Well, I find myself in a dim reflection of this happy, cosmic family, which finds itself stranded on Terra Malkuth. In this case, I have a wife whose esoteric codenam is Kali. We have two sons, one is an elephant-type, lovable puggle, and the other an aggressive Schnauzer.

But Lord Shiva has another aspect. He is an ascetic who lives on Mount Kailash (overlooking the sacred Wesak Valley. When you see pics of Shiva sitting alone on a tiger skin [no derision intended toward poster Tiger], that's him. On the dense physical plane, I teach martial arts, both the soft and the deadly hard styles.

My Human Design type is that of the Hermit. Inside, that is, the true outline of my inner self. But my outer type is that of the Opportunist, which does not imply deviant finagling, bur rather that "opportunities come to me" in order to participate in the outer world. This has been true my entire life. Efforts on my part to "do" something rarely work out. But theaters of operation have continually presented themselves. I was pointed toward LAShTAL by my editor. I have been here 11 or 12 years. This is who you get on LAShTAL: Little Shiva the ascetic. Not the cynic or the sublimated, and not the follower of any religious dogma. With what little power leaks through from a "higher state," I identify and destroy illusion. I don't usually teach here, although some hints and nudges may come along. I usually don't start threads, although I've done a few.

Strong reactions thunder forth when I read threads where I perceive illusion being presented. We're in the middle of one of those right now. I do not do it to teach the illusioner or to defeat him/her in verbal combat. Since I am operating on the second ray, I throw up a reaction that may seem cynical, sarcastic, or hostile. Did not Jesus physically throw the fucking money-changers out of the Temple? I plead guilty to sarcasm, as outlined above, and so what? I am actively exposing illusion for the benefit of passive readers. They email me from time to time. They appreciate my style.

The third and most expanded Shiva is his part part in the Trimurti (Triad or Trinity).

"Trimurtri is the Triple deity of supreme divinity in Hinduism in which the cosmic functions of creation, maintenance, and destruction are personified as a triad of deities, typically Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver, and Shiva the destroyer. - Wikipedia

I have to keep my references going ... so I won't appear to be insane.

Now this Shiva the Desroyer can be (not) seen in the Shiva Tandava.

"Tandava is a divine dance performed by the Hindu god Shiva. Shiva's Tandava is described as a vigorous dance that is the source of the cycle of creation, preservation and dissolution. While the Rudra Tandava depicts his violent nature, first as the creator and later as the destroyer of the universe, even of death itself, the Ananda Tandava depicts him as joyful. In Shaiva Siddhanta tradition, Shiva as Nataraja (lit. "Lord of dance") is considered the supreme lord of dance. - Wikipedia

Me, the vehicle who is writing so earnestly to you all, goes by the code-name NotaRajah.

I am not a Hinduist, but the Hindus have such a quaint description of the levels that apply to me and every other person, so I cite their theology. Some people prefer Krishna, Brahma, Rama, or Vishnu, with several female forms available. Others prefer Jesus or Muhammad. I can do business with the godless Communists, but they don't fit into any aspect of the spiritual Path. They display dictatorial measures to reap material reward, so they're of the Black Lodge. Not the individual Chinese person, but the system. Political observations omitted - just read the daily news.

So, anyway, Lord Shiva gets in a twist. He's tired of all the illusionary bullshit, and he hits the jug. Kali actually encourages him in this. "I'm going to destroy all the illusion," he bellows, takes another hit from his jug, and starts dancing. A mad, exciting, ecstatic dance, wherein all illusion is consumed back into its original state. This, unfortunately for anybody who is hanging on to anything, is a Void. Scientists tell us that our entire galaxy (as well as other) were spewed out of a black hole, which remains today right there, downtown.

So all this has been to say I'm Not a Rajah or a Shrink,
I usually offer people something to drink.
(the Jug)

The jug does not contain Ethyl Alcohol; she and I don't get along. Did I mention that I have access to a legally-obtained, research chemical?

Now this is getting pretty long. I've submitted my position and my motivation, and I've only commented on a couple of lines. So much to do, so much. I think it's time to take a break, a siesta, as they call it around here). But wait ...

Who is the real Shiva?

<haha>


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3885
19/06/2019 11:31 pm  

@henrypearce

If every man and woman is a star, why would anyone want to resurrect and emulate the Theosophists, Grant, Crowley or even Amado – if for the sake of the argument we assume that he was in the same “league” – when they are well and truly dead? When each and everyone of us, who never will be seen again on this earth, are meant to realize our ‘own’ potential? Should students be trying to emulate a dead man through his writings?

I take an interest in, amongst others, the Prajnaparamita texts of Mahayana Buddhism; a number of the Hindu tantras and sutras; Ch'an Buddhism; the works of advaitins such as Ramana Maharshi and Atmananda; the writings of Kenneth Grant, Austin Osman Spare, Aleister Crowley, and Charles Stansfeld Jones. Even were it possible, I'm not trying to "resurrect and emulate" the people through whom those words were written, but to explore ideas. We each take influences from a variety of sources, transmute them through our own magical and mystical experience, and distil thereby our own body of work. I'm not interesting in "emulating" anybody.

Do you think that the ideas and discoveries of Einstein should be jettisoned because he is dead, and to take an interest in his work is to seek to "resurrect and emulate" him? No, of course not. Rather, we use the knowledge and experiences left behind by others to develop those ideas further. Otherwise, we are continually re-inventing the wheel.

Whilst being hewn from very different rock, I'm sure we have much in common. However, I thought the passage of yours which I have highlighted above somewhat curious, and worthy of further discussion.


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
20/06/2019 2:39 am  

“ If every man and woman is a star, why would anyone want to resurrect and emulate the Theosophists, Grant, Crowley “

They took the fire from heaven
that passed through out Kasdim and Akkad
and passed the torch

adolescents sometimes emulate stars they are attracted to
Artists may study a style of art rather than attire an artist wore

“ when they are well and truly dead? When each and everyone of us, who never will be seen again on this earth, are meant to realize our ‘own’ potential? Should students be trying to emulate a dead man through his writings? “

Words are only dead to the dead

reflected in a happy cosmic family
Tandava Stars


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
20/06/2019 2:46 am  

And Some Artists just do art and leave religion out of it
I Tell musicians that are into philosophy i prefer to read it

but i dabble and mix it up


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
20/06/2019 12:06 pm  

@henrypearce: I find it interesting that you would be so concerned over the photo of your dead teacher, and yet not want to "emulate what he left behind for you to read.

My teacher died off this earth over 2000 years ago, but he left behind a book that teaches me, shows his love for me, rebukes me, encourages me, gives me joy, shows me right from wrong. It is a living thing and I cherish it and, yes, try to emulate it's teachings.

Yes, it makes me sad when I hear his name being used as a swear word, but I do not put up a fuss. I think that they just don't know him like I do and move on.

I love him dearly, yet I see his followers daily ridiculed and persecuted. I do not complain, but say, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

My teacher is the Son of God, the King of Righteousness. the Alpha and Omega, the Holy One of God, the Savior. He sits at the right hand of God, and yet humbled himself and became a baby in a manger. His name is Jesus.

Your teacher left you a book. Read it. Enjoy it. Emulate it, if you will. But don't dismiss it. If it is not good enough to emulate, you are welcome to read my teacher's book. I guarantee it is worth emulating. It is called the Bible.


ReplyQuote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3885
20/06/2019 12:22 pm  

Talking of "a book" reminds me that in a post earlier in this thread I mentioned that Amado considered The Boof of the Law a hoax or a blind, and that there was another book which was the real thing. In my post I called this 'The Book of Destruction', but this was my mistake: Amado called it 'The Book of Desolation'.


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
20/06/2019 3:49 pm  

" the art of writing was called magic. The old word for magic 'gramarye' merely means writing'.

it was impossible to read them (the Gospels) without fantastic confusion of thought. The confusion was so utterly dumbfounded that it was called the proper spirit to read the Bible in. Jesus was a baby; and he was older than creation. He was a man who could be persecuted, stoned, scourged, and killed; and he was a God, immortal and all-powerful, able to raise the dead and call millions of angels to his aid. It was a sin to doubt either view of him: that is, it was a sin to reason about him; and the end was that you did not reason about him, and read about him only when you were compelled.”

the average reader accepts whole pages of contradiction, or even sheer nonsense without noticing anything.

There is a kind of feeling that luck will not last. We therefore find sacrifices {10-} offered in the moment of success. The vow of Jephthah to sacrifice the first living thing that met him, should he return victorious, is a case in point.

Greek drama is full of stories of the punishment of hybris', the state of mind which declared that everything was going well and would always do so, that the man was a fine fellow much too big to fall. We stilltouch wood', or, in Scotland, `cauld airn'.

There was also the custom of slaying a man beneath the foundation stone of a building. The first-born son of the builder was considered a suitable offering. See Joshua VI:26 and II Kings XVI:34 «WEH NOTE: SIC, it should be I Kings XVI:34, Hiel of Bethel's rebuilding Jericho with the sacrifice of two of his sons beneath the foundations and the gates

The conviction of sin' is a modern invention due principally to the tyranny of a Pauline priestcraft. In the dark ages every calamity was attribted by the priests to sin; and, as calamities were frequent, the spirit of the people was broken. Today we have even a form of melancholia whose principal delusion is that the victim has committed thesin against the Holy Ghost'.

Such ravings are only possible to slave-peoples
The {12} whole idea of sin and redemption is a direct metaphysical creation of the slave spirit. "
Liber 888
https://invisiblehouse.org/pdf/liber888.pdf


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
20/06/2019 4:07 pm  

oh and a did ya hear
"New research in biomechanics suggests that young people are developing hornlike spikes at the back of their skulls"
https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Horns-are-growing-on-young-people-s-skulls-Phone-14024660.php


ReplyQuote
laethe
(@laethe)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 8
20/06/2019 5:03 pm  

@Barbara

Hi Barbara,

I have been following this thread, on and off, for several years and have been interested to read your recollections of Amado/Mike.

I was one of Amado's students during the early days and I actually remember you. In fact, I think I was the student who originally interviewed you when you first came to the commune at LH, near Farnham (in the small study on the ground floor as I recall). This must have been the year before you joined the commune, by which time I think I had left (I lived there 1977-1978).

For what it is worth, I can confirm the general accuracy of your recollections of Mike, Edna, and life at LH.

Back in 2014, I wrote a brief account of my relationship with Amado on this thread. It is on page 3 under the pseudonym Joseph Mitchell (since expired on this site, hence my new registration).

You have talked a lot about Mike's interest in men (vs women). I agree that his relationships with men and women were certainly quite different (one of the reasons I eventually left). I thought he wasn't really interested in women's development and, yes, he did see them as having a subservient or supportive role in the 'work'. He tried to justify this to me on the grounds that men were more messed up psychologically, spiritually and sexually, and therefore needed more attention. He might have had a point, but I didn't really buy it.

I do think, however, that you may have (understandably) misread Mike's sexual interest in men. Yes, there was an emphasis in his teaching on developing and using men's sexuality (for magickal purposes it was claimed) but he was not, in my opinion, a homosexual predator in the sense that you or others might imagine. He did invite his male students (including me) to share his bed but, at least in my case, nothing sexual ever happened on these occasions - we just talked and slept together (literally). And Mike never 'had sex' with me, nor ever attempted to do so. Of course I can't speak for his other male students, but that was my experience. Actually, I think he mostly yearned for male companionship. He certainly never came across to me as a dirty old man. Sexually, he seemed very restrained, if not celibate.

It was good to see the photo of Mike that you uploaded. You must have caught him off-guard - he was always very careful to protect his identify and went out of his way to avoid being photographed or otherwise revealed.

BTW, his day job was college tutor.

With all good wishes.


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
20/06/2019 5:30 pm  

Tiger:d

It is nice to have an intelligent conversation with someone who is willing to question the Bible and demand answers. I too had these types of questions when I was a new Christian, but God has shown me that not everything that the people of God did was in alignment with what God would have them to do. For example, God told Israel that the kings were not to "multiply wives", but David and Solomon did it anyway, and it caused them a lot of grief. .

Jephthah was wrong to make that vow. He thought it up all by himself without any prompting of God. Human sacrifices were common during that time period with the surrounding tribes, but God was against it. "Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods." Deut. 12:31. God is telling Israel here not to do what everybody else was doing around them.

The second instance from Joshua was just Joshua prophesying what would happen if anyone tried to rebuild Jericho. Hiel and his sons were the fulfillment of that prophecy. God did not sanction human sacrifice.

The only seeming exception to this rule was when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. But God did not allow Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, instead providing a ram for a sacrifice. (Gen. 22:1-13) This was a foreshadowing of God offering his son Jesus to atone for our sins.

Keep them coming!


ReplyQuote
Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 66
20/06/2019 6:32 pm  

@laethe: Thank you for your kindly worded response to my many posts. You seem like a very gentle person. However, I never interviewed with a student, it was always just Mike, so you are mistaken in that. You obviously were at Lake House, as I remember that little study well.

Question: During those nights with Mike, did he teach you anything of a spiritual nature?

I will reconsider my insistence that Mike enjoyed sex with young men based on your testimony, but many of the men there told me otherwise. I also know he urged the women to satisfy one another sexually, and frowned on male-female relationships within he commune, except if already married.

As for the picture of Mike, I did not take it. I am actually in the picture below Mike, but we cropped me out of it when we posted it. It was Christmas, and I think the alcohol had something to do with Mike's letting his guard down.

Do you recall a young lady that kept bees? She was my roommate while I was there.

Thank you for the memories.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4097
20/06/2019 7:11 pm  

hp: For Aleister, Mount Everest might have been proof of his vigor

AC never climbed Everest.

T: the average reader accepts whole pages of contradiction, or even sheer nonsense without noticing anything.

Personally, I'm not the average reader. I probably read slower than them ... due to tricky eyesight and never having learned to speedy-read (where one grasps entire lines, paragraphs, or pages in a single glimpse. However, this particular thread (interesting as it has been) is now beginning to bore me, due to contradiction (contra = "against" / diction = "choice and use of words").

l: He tried to justify this to me on the grounds that men were more messed up psychologically, spiritually and sexually, and therefore needed more attention. He might have had a point, but I didn’t really buy it.

No, I don't think he had any sort of a sharp point. Such a blunted point; I am pleased to hear that you made no purchase.

The folds, veils, wrinkles, and gaps in our energy fields are strictly individual (that's why everyone is different), and they are not gender specific. Every knight, and every lady, is a star. This is true. At the center of our most rarefied energy field is what is called the Core Star. Since it can be seen and known, it must be accepted (or you will be punished by fire and ice) that there is a genitor force behind (inside) this star. We know that "unknowable" force as Hadit, which is just a name that Aiwass hung on the not nameable. It is not gender specific. It lies in the realm of "All Stars are Equal," which filters down into the muddy, mundane plane as garbled versions of equality in a world where nothing is equal.

Please notice: At this point > . < I bow out of this madhouse. If you want me, catch me on another thread. I'm going dancing.


ReplyQuote
laethe
(@laethe)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 8
20/06/2019 7:25 pm  

@BarbaraGreen

Thanks for your reply. It seems I was mistaken about our meeting. The young woman I interviewed was certainly American and I assumed it was you. I remember that Mike wasn't sure about her and wanted my opinion.

There was no explicit teaching during our nights together - it was just friendly chat. I did sometimes wonder at the time whether there was some kind of dreamwork going on while we slept. Another odd thing I have often wondered about was that I did hear the sound of a little bell in the middle of the night on several occasions. I never got to the bottom of that.

Mike didn't frown on male-female relationships while I was there. I lived there with my girlfriend (later wife) and there was at least one other male-female couple at the time (Steve and Karen?). Mike liked (or at least tolerated) having females living there - he thought it gave a more balanced and familial feel to the commune (unlike traditional single-sex monasteries or nunneries).

I am not aware of him encouraging the women to have sex with each other, though it wouldn't surprise me. Generally he thought strictly monogamous relationships weren't particularly healthy, and that more open relationships would help to cement the bonds in the community. Unsurprisingly, that didn't really work, and led to some jealousies and interpersonal tensions.

Of the single women, I remember Kathy well. I can't recall whether she kept bees. I also remember the rhesus macaques (which were a bit scary) and the goats (loved them).


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1429
20/06/2019 7:52 pm  

@Barbara

" There are plenty of John the Baptists to-day in India. Take a dirty piece of cloth, a little tumeric, a lot of cowdung, and a pair of tongs; and you have him. He is a half crazy half savage individual, brusque and violent in speech, impossible in manner, who practices all kinds of austerity, feeds on refuse, and is usually in a condition of more or less maniacal excitement produced by fasting, or the use of such drugs as opium or hashish, or both.

Contrast with this type the man, often of excellent family, perhaps even a great king, who quits the world and its vanities as soon as he feels that he has performed his duty to mankind. This course of action is prescribed for everybody in the Sacred Books of Hindustan. Some feel the call more strongly, and take a chance by refusing to fulfil such duties as marriage, going out while still quite young men into the desert or jungle.

Such men are totally different from those described above, in nearly all respects. They are learned in the Scriptures. They do not inflict torture upon themselves except in the same way as a blue' does when he is training for the boat race. Their manners are, however, much superior to those of the averageblue'. They care nothing for the conventions of society, but respect the feelings of others, though, if they are of the teaching kind, they will sometimes publicly perform some unconventional act to call attention to some point of their doctrine.

The main position of such men is not that the Scriptures are {26} wrong in prescribing certain courses of action, but that formalism has destroyed the virtue of such teachings; just as any earnest clergyman to-day, without leaving his pulpit, might rebuke his flock for the shallowness of their religion.

It will be observed that this is exactly what Jesus did. Practically all of his attacks on the Pharisees are not directed against the strictness of their observance of the Mosaic law, but against their formalism, and sometimes even against their laxity. For example, we read in Matthew, chapter XII, verses 10, and 11 “And behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day? that they might accuse him. And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold of it, and lift it out?” He says that his mission is only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, as is shewn in Matthew, chapter X, verses 5 and 6. “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

So far from being in any way a reformer as opposed to a mere revivalist, he says plainly (in Matthew Chapter V, verses 17, 18, 19, and 20) “Think not that I am come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in now wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same {27} shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven”.

He evidently regards himself as a new Isaiah. There are other sides to his character which will be discussed later, but there was at least this side, and we cannot follow Mr. Shaw in stamping him plainly as unorthodox, for he is found dining with Pharisees as well as with publicans, and throughout the whole of the gospel we find that he is permitted to teach in the synagogues.

One point, however, mentioned by Mr. Shaw is so vital that it must be discussed at once. Mr. Shaw says: “When reproached, as Bunyan was for resorting to the art of fiction when teaching in parables, he justifies himself on the ground that art is the only way in which the people can be taught.” "
Liber 888
https://invisiblehouse.org/pdf/liber888.pdf

So what of the poor dead bodies before God finally got around to sending Jesus into the world ?


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4097
20/06/2019 8:25 pm  

T: Some feel the call more strongly, and take a chance by refusing to fulfil such duties as marriage, going out while still quite young men into the desert or jungle.

Yeah. I can relate to that. I haven't read further yet (and may be wasting words), but the description thus far is of the Sannyasin. These folks correlate with the Inner Order, or Solar Triad, the "Lover" grade. For your amusement, anyone is invited, here is the direct link to the Ashram of the Sannyasin in Megatron.

2.5 < This is the link

Hey, wait. I see this is the Amado thread. I thought it was the Babalon thread. Well, you can have the link anyway (as opposed to destroying this post)> But, really, Shiva the Householder has to do some dancing through financial paperwork.


ReplyQuote
henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
Member
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 26
20/06/2019 10:37 pm  


Do you think that the ideas and discoveries of Einstein should be jettisoned because he is dead, and to take an interest in his work is to seek to “resurrect and emulate” him? No, of course not. Rather, we use the knowledge and experiences left behind by others to develop those ideas further. Otherwise, we are continually re-inventing the wheel.

OK 'resurrect' would appear to be no more helpful than if I had chosen 'exhume'! 😉 And 'emulate' is also overstating my case. It is hyperbolic. Pardon.

Jettisoned. Nice word. No, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. It is a question of emphasis. But then how many people understand Einstein? How many have put themselves through the necessary training to arrive there? How many then understand Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem. Now this is science. And the steps of science have been very steadily assembled and clearly formulated, so that those who can apply themselves may then more certainly follow, and gain the necessary knowledge. If natural science is not altogether simple to follow, how much more fraught with difficulty is finding a pathway to the understanding the soul? How many instruction books, supported by reliable hands-on courses are there?

Back to jettisoned. In one of Amado's first series of 'Audio books', "Landfall" he uses the metaphor of setting sail on a voyage where before setting off, one might consider what ballast they are attempting to set sail with. They might also want to scrape some barnacles off their bottom ... that might otherwise impede the flight of their ship. The spiritual quest wasn't about how much you know, but what you ... individually ... needed to make your way more adventitious, more likely of success.

I first started with Amado just before his first book about Aleister was published. And to be honest, I was perplexed. This wasn't the Amado I recognized I was studying with. It seemed to me a parallel task he'd set himself. And as for Lewd Ghosts ... well, that's a wholly different prospect.

From the nineties, his output was prolific. The printed books are few. But the Audio books he produced especially for his students were prolific. And they were graded, sort of scaling a mountain, where you picked up incrementally complex ideas, at the same time dropping weight en route.

The emphasis was on the spoken, not the read. And it acted as a sort of priming for when you did get the chance to see him and check understanding. And get an occasional prod.

We are all survivors of a process, not of what we've read. We already know much more than what we could possibly read about. Amado's works were produced for his students at the time. They were far reaching and helped build scaffoldings and frames of reference. An initial series explored the Celts and the subsuming of their beliefs in the new religion of Christianity. There is lots that's gone on before that could be redeemed. There is nothing new under the sun. It seemed Aleister went deeper too. But I doubt if his published works were anything like his presence.

I could be way out of line, but my feeling is these occultists were sort of rejuvenating hybridists. They illustrated ways and spoke anew, but they have emphasized different chapters of a rooted, but evolving doctrine and if they've caught our ear we might have discovered a bit more about what small role we ourselves might play.

Nassim Taleb and Mandelbrot, I think, coined a phrase the Lindy Effect: "Every year that passes without extinction doubles the additional life expectancy. This is an indicator of some robustness. The robustness of an item is proportional to its life!"

Classical music often drew from ancient folk songs which can still be recognized in their reconstitution. Composers build on these themes and develop discourse between each other. Of course, none of this is new to you. But with what we know about DNA how much would an Asian need to know about Celtic roots in order to help him reach his own apotheosis? While yes, of course there was the Axial Age, ancestry and folk lore does count. Tweaking and nuancing is needed.

As for the Book of Desolation ... well, that's another story ...


ReplyQuote
Page 8 / 9
Share: