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henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
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20/06/2019 10:47 pm  

@tiger

So can you give us your take on what happened in the communes?

He was encouraging a good number of marriages and children.


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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20/06/2019 10:56 pm  

@henrypearce
It would be nice if these lectures were available on the web .
There are teachers who say they teach by presence but give lectures and put the sound bites with the lecture topic on the web and claim that the tone and sound of the voice is more important than the transcripted words which are provided as well.

" So can you give us your take on what happened in the communes?
He was encouraging a good number of marriages and children."

why would anyone go to his commune to do that ?

" As for the Book of Desolation … well, that’s another story …"
do tell


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Barbara Green
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20/06/2019 11:13 pm  

@laethe:

It sure seems by the posts on this thread that the men got a lot more from their relationship with Mike than the women did. How did your girlfriend feel about you going off to sleep with another man leaving her alone? That would aggravate me to no end. Doesn't it strike you as odd that a middle-aged man would want to sleep with young men just for the company?

Mike and I got off to a bad start from day one. I took a bath in the morning, as was my habit, and when I got downstairs, Mike immediately yelled at me for wasting water and electricity. I was mortified and speechless. He then laughed and said, "It's no fun to chase a rabbit if it won't run." Forever after, I was afraid of making some misstep that would incur his wrath. I didn't leave right away as I probably should have, as I had come all that way to stay with him for his teaching, which of course never happened.

All in all, it was not a very pleasant experience. I stayed only for the relationships that I had formed with my peers on the commune. I had one very close relationship with one young man, but he balked from asking Mike if we could move into the same bedroom. I think he knew as well as I did that new relationships were not to be formed. This was the last straw. If I couldn't be free to form my own relationships, I knew I needed to leave. When I told Mike I was leaving, he yelled at me again and said, "Don't you know I could curse your sexuality for life?" So from first day until the last, there was contention.

What about you? I have been pretty open about where my path has taken me. Where has your path taken you since your days with Mike?

Barbara


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Barbara Green
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20/06/2019 11:18 pm  

@henrypearce:

Well, your experience was far different than mine, as described above. When did you say you were there?


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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21/06/2019 1:52 am  

“ The folds, veils, wrinkles, and gaps in our energy fields are strictly individual (that’s why everyone is different), and they are not gender specific. Every knight, and every lady, is a star. This is true. At the center of our most rarefied energy field is what is called the Core Star. Since it can be seen and known, it must be accepted (or you will be punished by fire and ice) that there is a genitor force behind (inside) this star. We know that “unknowable” force as Hadit, which is just a name that Aiwass hung on the not nameable. It is not gender specific. It lies in the realm of “All Stars are Equal,” which filters down into the muddy, mundane plane as garbled versions of equality in a world where nothing is equal.

Please notice: At this point > . < I bow out of this madhouse. If you want me, catch me on another thread. I’m going dancing. “

“The Freemasons have that big G in the middle of their emblem and they won’t tell any outsider what it stands for. Most folk think it means “God,” but rogue Masons have revealed that it’s “Genitor.” Publicly, the Masons refer to him as The Grand Architect of the Universe. Their mysteries are derived from Cathedral and Temple builders, so they’re all involved with spiritual architecture. But we (you and I) have now climbed the ladder of consciousness all the way out to N (Nothing) and now we have to climb down again, if we’re goingto rebuild the spectrum of awareness. Of course, anyone can simply read Chapters 1-14 of this book, in reverse, and the process of creation, or incarnation, will become apparent. However, there are a few more details, so we’ll just examine the process of re-entry a little closer. But first, let’s review a procedure for getting out there ...then we’ll investigate coming back.”

Genitor pdf from Shiva


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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21/06/2019 2:24 am  

Adherents to doctrine
advancing the primacy of power
ha
The Hermetic Philosophy
teaches not
what one ought to believe in
but how to ask
seek
and knock

Luke 11:9-13


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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21/06/2019 3:38 am  

“ I slew seventy kings, who harnessed thousands of chariots and thousands of horsemen . I killed Jehoram son of Ahab
king of Israel, and killed Ahaziahu son of Jehoram king of the House of David, and I set their towns into ruins and turned their land into desolation . “

he Hoo Ra ha
You Who HU YHU

Tel Dan Stele


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Jamie J Barter
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21/06/2019 3:42 am  

@henrypearce @

Amado’s works were produced for his students at the time. They were far reaching and helped build scaffoldings and frames of reference. An initial series explored the Celts and the subsuming of their beliefs in the new religion of Christianity.

Was this the same sort of material which he put out in the final "volumes" of Liber Lucis? Except I seem to recall these also featured what seemed to be quite 'original' stuff concerning runes and "Dark Ages" pagan beliefs in Anglo-Saxon England as well, which at the time I found rather intriguing, and always meant to go back and try to delve into the matter a little bit further. Except that, like as with so much else in life, I never got around to it. (he added bathetically)

Rat-a-tat-tat! (Tiger/Luke: ... how to... knock"),
joy N


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Tiger
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21/06/2019 3:58 am  

nice beat Jamie


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henrypearce
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21/06/2019 10:21 am  

@Barbara Green

Well, your experience was far different than mine, as described above. When did you say you were there?

I knew him from the last years he was with his mother, through Brighton to the end. I spent a good deal of time at a commune and I am content with the outworking of our relationship. That is not to say I didn't see feelings getting hurt and the odd occasional strange eruption, practice or fall out ... but nothing that would excite the curiosity of your average Crowleyan occultist. Nothing anywhere near as infamous as Aleister's accounts of his own life. That is not said to justify bad behavior in general, but to illustrate that when all's said and done, much can be put down to ordinary human infallibility.

I am sorry you were hurt and I am sorry if I have added to it. As they used to say ... Do Well and Be Well.


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henrypearce
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21/06/2019 10:28 am  

@Jamie

Was this the same sort of material which he put out in the final “volumes” of Liber Lucis?

Probably, Jamie. He 'rapped' on some various themes at different turns of the spiral as he went along. Happy Summer Solstice by the way.


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Jamie J Barter
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21/06/2019 10:34 am  

@MichaelStaley :

Talking of “a book” reminds me that in a post earlier in this thread I mentioned that Amado considered The Boof of the Law a hoax or a blind, and that there was another book which was the real thing. In my post I called this ‘The Book of Destruction’, but this was my mistake: Amado called it ‘The Book of Desolation’.
Which reminds me, there's a whole thread on the very subject of this Book of Devastation --- I mean, Desolation, which can be found at: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/crowleys-magnum-opus-the-book-of-desolation/ (or at present as the second entry on the 6th page of the "Magick" board if the above link doesn't work.)

@laethe :

BTW, his day job was college tutor.
Interesting... no wonder he would have been most circumspect about revealing it: he luckily seems to have escaped the fate which unfortunately befell Gerald Suster, who had the same profession until he was 'exposed' in the now defunct Rupert Murdoch sleaze-tabloid News of the World and subsequently lost the teaching job which he had for the rest of his life.

N Joy


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3862
21/06/2019 11:23 am  

@Jamie

Which reminds me, there’s a whole thread on the very subject of this Book of Devastation

Thanks for the reminder. I'd completely forgotten about this.


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laethe
(@laethe)
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21/06/2019 11:44 am  

@barbaragreen

My girlfriend was fond of Mike, who treated her well. She had joined the commune a couple of months before I did because I had some studies to complete first. She felt quite lonely during that period and Mike was very supportive of her. She didn't feel threatened by Mike's relationship with me. By conventional standards, Mike's sleeping arrangements do seem odd, but were accepted as part of our lives there. Mike was a busy man, with a day job. He liked to relax with his needlepoint while watching TV during the evenings. At weekends he was usually busy working and writing in his shed office. So he didn't have much time for one-to-one chats with any of us during day hours.

I am sorry to hear that your time at the commune was so distressing. Mike did have a temper and would sometimes lash out verbally (never physically) if he got too annoyed. His 'teaching' also relied extensively on directly challenging his students' habitual thought patterns and behaviours, which was inevitably uncomfortable. Gurdjieff had a similar teaching approach and I mentioned in my 'Joseph Mitchell' posting that Mike had a background in Gurdjieffian work. It is not an easy or pleasant learning experience, and the 'method' can often become abusive. Interpersonal tensions among students, heightened by living in the emotional crucible of a mixed-sex commune, can make the whole thing unbearable for many.

After leaving the commune and ending my relationship with Mike (fairly amicably) I finished off my PhD and pursued an academic career. At the same time, my interest in spirituality and the occult became more scholarly. I contacted Mike again in 1984 in the hope of some kind of reconciliation and collaboration. By then he had moved to a new commune in France. We corresponded over a couple of years, during which time he sent me electronic copies of his new writings and encouraged me to gather a group of students around me. But I wasn't happy doing that, or with the whole guru thing, or with the direction that his teachings were moving. I ended all contact with Mike in 1985.

Since that time, my own 'path' (that sounds too pretentious) has been as academic, psychologist and spiritual commentator. I don't follow any particular tradition or teacher, but I have studied and learned from many over the years. Though I am now retired and no longer have to worry about losing my job, I don't wish my identity to be revealed here, so I can't really say any more about myself.


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henrypearce
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21/06/2019 12:51 pm  

@Tiger

” As for the Book of Desolation … well, that’s another story …”
do tell

Thanks for the link to the discussion on the 'book'. I wasn't there at the time, but I have a first hand account of the under the bed story. Bit of a cliché though, don't you think? At any rate, I am not trying to cast any doubt on the story and the actual find.

I don't have much to add, but perhaps I might say something about his work on his Tarot cards. The original cards were inherited from his mother, handed down her maternal line. Bit of a parallel tale. Amado tirelessly worked on these cards on his computer, scanning them in and adapting them to his needs. He struggled between the desire for authenticity and his need for them to be contemporaneously meaningful. He endlessly forged on with those cards getting them ready to his satisfaction. As we know, in order to have the new cards published he gave away the originals to pay for it.

Now, again, I don't think I have seen any of the Book of Desolation, but I suspect if I have, some of it might just have been slipped into his teachings. Context is everything. Right timings. Right places. Or perhaps not. But it is very hard to imagine Amado wasting so much time on writing about the subject if there was no purpose in doing so ... unless he was completely off the wall insane. Clearly, I don't think so.

He was always mindful of how much time he had and seemed to regret he hadn't responded as effectively as he felt should to his calling. He was a computer wizz and technology might have played a part in how the Book of Desolation ultimately took shape ... or not. If it exists.

It has been rewarding reading Laethe's comments. So much is consistent with my own experience, albeit that Amado no longer had to go out to work himself. He worked exceptionally though, under considerable constraints and I was sometimes awed by his staying power and his own level of restraint. It certainly added to his charisma which he didn't keep going 24 hours a day, but ably released when needed. Like a consummate actor.

But looping back to his mother, this is only my own private estimation. But there were times in his last years where Amado, despite his huge bulk, seemed to embody a feminine spirit. He could reflect on his own behavior and be quite tender. He would reflect on his own motives and talk aloud about what might be the best way to respond to challenges.

As I've said quite a few times here, the whole occult thing has left very little impression on me, but I am content with the teacher I was given. I can't help feeling that many people are looking in all sorts of corners that ultimately won't help them.


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laethe
(@laethe)
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21/06/2019 1:12 pm  

@henrypearce

Interesting to hear your experiences of Mike in his later period.

"Like a consummate actor" - I believe Mike was an actor at one time and that he taught at RADA for a while.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3862
21/06/2019 4:48 pm  

@henrypearce
@laethe

It's been very interesting to read your accounts of life at Lake House and your experiences with Amado.


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Barbara Green
(@barbaragreen)
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21/06/2019 10:06 pm  

@henrypearce
@laethe

Yes, I agree with Michael in that your posts have been very eye-opening for me. Maybe when the men said "sleep", they just meant sleep in the true sense of the word, instead of the euphemistic meaning of the word. And maybe I misunderstood the parade of young men coming out of his bedroom in the mornings. Well at least I can say, based on your testimony, that I no longer can view Mike as a sexual predator.


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
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22/06/2019 12:26 am  

Barbara you say you want to make friends here and interact but I've only ever seen you post in this thread.


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Tiger
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22/06/2019 1:19 am  

““Maybe when the men said “sleep”, they just meant sleep in the true sense of the word, instead of the euphemistic meaning of the word. And maybe I misunderstood the parade of young men coming out of his bedroom in the mornings. “

wow
All this time i thought that they were only just;

fusing, forming and whirling the forbidden wisdom
into the terrestrial power zone.

Dancing in the astral light of witchcraft;
stoking the special fire of Black Magic
into desolation through the Unspeakable
to awaken the slanderer Ayin .
to reduce whole nations to rubble.

you know a ritual to get gods attention.

or just a path working.

train the eye.

inspiration from all the pages listed in the index of The Ninth Arch under desolation.


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laethe
(@laethe)
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22/06/2019 9:41 am  

@barbaragreen

Thank you.


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henrypearce
(@henrypearce)
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22/06/2019 9:58 am  

@Barbara

Maybe when the men said “sleep”, they just meant sleep in the true sense of the word, instead of the euphemistic meaning of the word. And maybe I misunderstood the parade of young men coming out of his bedroom in the mornings.

Were they marching out of his room waving banners? If they were, they most certainly weren't rainbow. 😉 Whatever actually happened, he was working for Agape. And I believe his own self restraint was an attempt to build up manna, or power in that regard.

It would be terribly difficult to contextalise this quote of his, because it is so deeply rooted in the ethos of what he was trying to teach us and what we were studying at that particular time, but for various reasons I will never forget it: "Love is a virus. Let's infect the world". Do what thou wilt was governed by Love under the Will. For me, there is something in this about belief rooted in biology, incomplete until it is actually put into action, aspiring, reaching out way beyond one's puny self toward the stars. Well ... 😉


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laethe
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22/06/2019 11:49 am  

@henrypearce

I believe his own self restraint was an attempt to build up manna, or power in that regard.

That makes sense to me. Mike's teachings placed great emphasis on using male sexual energy for magickal purposes and I think he did believe that his own magickal energies were increased through close (but sexually restrained) physical contact with his male students (and vice versa). A kind of reciprocal tantric vampirism if you like. That's why it was his male students who were invited to share his bed. Also, if he'd shared his bed with his female students, what would people have made of that?

Barbara is therefore right when she says that male students got more attention than the females. Mike was much less interested in, and felt less able to work with, the magickal potential of women's sexuality. I did challenge him on this and his answer was that female students really needed a female teacher if they were to work magickally with their own sexual energies. Basically he didn't feel qualified to do this. It was a fair point.


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henrypearce
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22/06/2019 2:07 pm  

@laethe
Succinctly put.


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Barbara Green
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22/06/2019 3:28 pm  

@henrypearce
@laethe

Question: Wouldn't the sexual energy be more built up with restraint from sex with whatever sex we were attracted to? And, more specifically with someone in particular we were attracted to? Mike was obviously attracted to young men, so he would build up sexual energy for himself, but not necessarily for the young men in the commune. I remember one young man in particular who left the commune saying that he was doing so because Mike wanted a relationship with him that he couldn't give. Maybe that was a sexual relationship? And maybe that is why Mike seemed to discourage sexual relationships between commune members, because he felt that they were wasting their sexual energy? I don't know about any of this, I'm just asking.

Barbara


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laethe
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22/06/2019 4:17 pm  

@barbaragreen

In my opinion, Mike had some odd ideas about sex and magick. A lot of sexual tantra can be pretty weird too. I was never comfortable with Mike's focus on male sexuality, which became emphasised even more in his later work. That was a major reason I walked away.

Assuming you are right, Mike wouldn't be the first teacher, or the last, to develop a system of theory and practice that reflects and supports his or her personal sexual preferences and peccadillos.


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henrypearce
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22/06/2019 4:20 pm  

@Barbara
It's interesting that we three span different time frames of Amado's communes. You say, all the members were young and hmm...hmm, sort of 'chaste'. By my time, most were matching up and starting families. Laethe has provided a coherence between your time and mine.

Leathe has already mentioned the 'Tantric' side of the teachings. Yes, a man could build up power with his chosen partner and that may very well be one of the goals. But if you are in love with someone without having worked on your technique beforehand then it would be harder to hold back and not lose all your power at once. Apart from which, how might your love take it if you wanted to withhold immediate consummation in order to build up intensity later? I suppose you've heard of the marshmallow experiment? 😉 The imbalance between a man and his favorite woman is a well known problem, don't you agree? Do I need to get more specific?

If you had stayed in the community long enough then my guess would be things would have developed.

And then there is using that power for ecstasy, what Amado - and perhaps Aleister? - called Eroto-comatose-lucidity. And for more altruistic purposes. Sexual energy can be used for the affirmation of life in general.


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Barbara Green
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23/06/2019 7:05 pm  

@laethe
@henrypearce

Did you ever hear anything from/about Mike's adopted son, Angus? Edna seemed to indicate that he had fallen off them map, and I'm curious if you ever met him, especially at Mike's death?

Also, did you know boaba of this thread? And what do you think of him? His accusation of me having a demon is what brought me back to this thread.

Barbara


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henrypearce
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23/06/2019 8:27 pm  

@Barbara

No siblings at the funeral, as far as I knew.

Anybody who claims to be able to diagnose either your mental health or assess possession over the internet needs a blind eye turned to.


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laethe
(@laethe)
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23/06/2019 10:55 pm  

@barbaragreen

I met Angus once, in 1972. Some time later, Mike told me that Angus was no longer interested in pursuing the occult path. I never met him again.

I don't know who Boaba is and, from what he has said, he knew Mike much later than I did.

Henry is quite right. No-one can, or should, diagnose another person in this way. Ignore it. In any case, such an accusation tells you much more about the accuser than the accused.


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