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# Alphanumeric Qabbala, Base-36 notation, and Thelema

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(@jinx)
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Hello,

In this text I intend to talk about a system of Gematria that may (or may not) be relevant in the context of Thelema.

At this time I'm perfectly aware that many people won't take seriously any new attempt at "cracking Liber AL" with (yet) another system of Gematria, so it pains me to be an advocate of an alternative Gematria to be used in a Thelemic context. However, it's not my intention to claim that I've "cracked" Liber AL or that I've found the "Key of It All". That, dear friends, was never the matter.

* * *

DISCLAIMER:

Every now and then (maybe more "then" than now), a new "Thelemic English Qabalah" pops out of nowhere, with someone claiming to have found the promised key that will solve all mysteries of the Book of the Law. While I enjoy certain ideas behind some of these new systems, I can't avoid feeling some discomfort when proposing this cipher as a possible relevant key to Thelema, simply because I'm not interested in repeating the same story that has already been written and rewritten by others. So what I'm trying to achieve by writing this is, in fact, to show you some ideas and then let you work the rest by yourselves. I am, of course, always interested in exchanging ideas about Gematria, and about this subject in particular — so if you feel the need to get in touch and discuss some of these things, please do!

* * *

The name of the cipher I want to talk about is Alphanumeric Qabbala ("AQ") and it's basically an offshoot of Base-36 notation, following a continuous, non-redundant, alphanumeric sequence from 0 to 9, and then A=10 through Z=35. It should be noted, however, that Base-36 is not the same as Alphanumeric Qabbala. The former is a notation system using the 10 Arabic numerals (0-9) and 26 English letters (A-Z) as digits in a Base-36 numerical notation system (like "our" decimal system, but expanding it to incorporate the letters-as-digits). The latter works like Gematria, adding together the values of the letters of a word as in other systems of Gematria.

In order to present my "case", as it were, I'm going to list a series of questions and their corresponding answers.

First Question:
"Why Alphanumeric Qabbala / Base-36 notation?"

AQ is an offshoot of Base-36 notation, which means that it includes exactly 36 alphanumeric characters (10 Arabic numerals and 26 English letters) that can be used as digits in a Base-36 notation system. The fact that Aleister Crowley called himself "The Great Beast 666" and that 666 is the 36ᵗʰ triangular number (meaning that it equals 1+2+3+...+36), only lends substance to this possible connection.

Second Question:
"Why would it be relevant in the context of Thelema?"

Certain patterns can be found when applying AQ to some key terms and names used in Thelema, namely:

- "AL" = 31, implying that Achad's "ALLALA"93

("AL" is a key formula in Thelema, being part of the name of the Book of the Law. Crowley wrote the following: ""AL" is the true name of the Book, for these letters, and their number 31, form the Master Key to its Mysteries."source. Even considering that Crowley was referring to the value of "AL" in Hebrew Gematria and Greek Isopsephy, it's quite noteworthy that the formula adds to the same value in Alphanumeric Qabbala.)

- "Thelema" = 127 (the 31ˢᵗ prime number)

- "The Book of the Law" = 301

- "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" = 777

- The number 777 is written as LL in Base-36 notation (i.e. 21×36 + 21×1). "LL" can stand for "Liber Legis", "The Book of the Law" translated to Latin. Also, before Frater Achad found the key-word "AL" in his Liber Thirty-One, the Book of the Law was being called "Liber L". Only later did Crowley call it "Liber AL", as explained in the The New and Old Comments to Liber AL vel Legis. The letter "L" has the value 21, or 7+7+7 in Alphanumeric Qabbala.

- "Do what thou wilt" = 325 = "Aleister Crowley"
(325 is a numerical constant in the 5×5 magic square of Mars. Consider, in this case, how Horus is called "a god of War and of Vengeance" in AL III:3.)

- The full birth name of Aleister Crowley was "Edward Alexander Crowley", which sums 438 in Alphanumeric Qabbala. Considering that 36 is the 8ᵗʰ triangular number and 666 is the 36ᵗʰ, it's quite curious to note that the (decimal) number 438 is written as 666 in Octal (base-8) notation. This, of course, can be a bit of a stretch, but I'm including it here just in case.

There's a number of other interesting correspondences that one can find when using AQ in the context of Thelema, even though — and this is very important — many different ciphers may deliver equally curious results, so using numerical matches to prove our point may not always be the best of choices.

Besides, there's still a lot work to be done — and still no clues whatsoever on a possible role of AQ in deciphering some riddles in the Book of the Law, namely AL II:76 and AL III:47.

This is part of a work in progress, and will be further elaborated upon in an article I'm writing about Alphanumeric Qabbala. If everything goes as planned, it will be published on my blog ( https://gematriaresearch.blogspot.com ) on February 5th, 2023 for... numerical reasons. 😋

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Congratulations!

Before reading the your text i went to your graph and quickly did the same calculation that you demonstrate concerning A and L adding to 31!

(@jinx)
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Before reading the your text i went to your graph and quickly did the same calculation that you demonstrate concerning A and L adding to 31!

Yeah. If you look closely you'll also see that the name of the cipher ("AQ") illustrates what it is:

"Alphanumeric Qabbala" = AQ = 10+26 = 10 Arabic numerals + 26 English letters. It's one rare example of a perfectly named cipher.

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Actually that is the first thing that struck me and the 10 and 11 being A and B, I went to look for K which is twenty and thus A + B = 21 why L we are off to the races...

i like what this ingenious and perhaps fortuitous arrangement provides, in starting with double digits, the letters are enriched and a wobbling factor begins...and as the A has as its hieroglyph suggest two roots, as has been my reckoning 0 & 1...'

It makes sense and is elegant, particularly in knowing that the arrangement speaks to Little Sunshine's number, VVV, 93!

Thanks for this!

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(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @jinx

In this text I intend to talk about a system of Gematria that may (or may not) be relevant in the context of Thelema.

Not exactly prophetic, but that's certainly the sum of the possibilities.

Posted by: @jinx

At this time I'm perfectly aware that many people won't take seriously any new attempt at "cracking Liber AL" with (yet) another system of Gematria, so it pains me to be an advocate of an alternative Gematria to be used in a Thelemic context.

Got that "Isa" thing going on, ok.

Posted by: @jinx

However, it's not my intention to claim that I've "cracked" Liber AL or that I've found the "Key of It All". That, dear friends, was never the matter.

Taking that position may have ended any hope you had for getting laid at Notocon next year.

Posted by: @jinx

Every now and then (maybe more "then" than now), a new "Thelemic English Qabalah" pops out of nowhere, with someone claiming to have found the promised key that will solve all mysteries of the Book of the Law.

Many have claimed to have found the key, but I'm not aware of anyone that has stated they can actually solve all of the book's mysteries, let alone demonstrated it.

Posted by: @jinx

I can't avoid feeling some discomfort when proposing this cipher as a possible relevant key to Thelema, simply because I'm not interested in repeating the same story that has already been written and rewritten by others.

And yet you are on that exact track.

Like everyone else, you will either succeed or fail, with the odds on the latter.

Posted by: @jinx

So what I'm trying to achieve by writing this is, in fact, to show you some ideas and then let you work the rest by yourselves.

So you're assuming the role of teacher, and yet by your own statements, you are unsure whether the gematria system you are promoting has any relevancy to Thelema or not. You may not realize this, but your effort is so typical that it could actually be described as textbook, but everyone has to start somewhere, and I am certainly no exception, nor are you.

Posted by: @jinx

DISCLAIMER

I'm thinking having some cards printed up that read:

CLAIMER: Magician, Prophet, Master of magical alphabets, Discoverer of the Key of it all!

What do you think?

Posted by: @jinx

AQ is an offshoot of Base-36 notation,

Not really. It's an ordinal English gematria system that utilizes the values 10-35, and while you clearly borrowed the value assignments for the letters from the Base 36 system, the connection is superficial, not mathematical.

Posted by: @jinx

Besides, there's still a lot work to be done — and still no clues whatsoever on a possible role of AQ in deciphering some riddles in the Book of the Law, namely AL II:76 and AL III:47.

You're standing at the foot of Everest and K2. Good luck on your journey, I like your blog, and hope your efforts are productive.

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Posted by: @herupakraath
Taking that position may have ended any hope you had for getting laid at Notocon next year.

I'm glad that never was one of my concerns.

Posted by: @herupakraath
Many have claimed to have found the key, but I'm not aware of anyone that has stated they can actually solve all of the book's mysteries, let alone demonstrated it.

Liber AL, particularly the passages in AL II:76 and III:47, has been the sole reason for the creation of at least a dozen different ciphers, which supposedly would unravel the mysteries of the Book of the Law. If you know the works of Frater Perseverando on The English Cabalah - 111 or of the late David Cherubim on his own version of an English Qabalah, for example, you'll see that both were called "The Key of It All" by their proponents. If you've read R. Leo Gillis' "Secrets of the Cipher Naughts" you'll certainly remember that many different systems have been proposed in order to try to solve the aforementioned verses of Liber AL. And all of them certainly have their merits, in a way or another.

However, saying and demonstrating that a cipher is the "Key of It All" are two very different things, and in most cases what we end up with is a demonstration that any "pattern" can be found when we apply many different ciphers to the same riddle. Serial/Ordinal will give some rather good results when applied to Liber AL; Alphanumeric Qabbala will do the same; English Qaballa will work as well, just like Trigrammaton Qabalah or Edgar Joel Love's Cipher X.

So is the search for a "promised" English Qabalah a useless pursuit? Maybe it is.

Posted by: @herupakraath
And yet you are on that exact track.

Like everyone else, you will either succeed or fail, with the odds on the latter.

I'm not interested in "succeeding" or "failing" since I have nothing to prove.

Posted by: @herupakraath
So you're assuming the role of teacher, and yet by your own statements, you are unsure whether the gematria system you are promoting has any relevancy to Thelema or not. You may not realize this, but your effort is so typical that it could actually be described as textbook, but everyone has to start somewhere, and I am certainly no exception, nor are you.

I certainly have some decades of experience with Gematria — but I never claimed to be a teacher or to have found "The Key of It All". My intention in creating my blog, for example, has been to talk about the history of certain ciphers that are used in Gematria, so that my intended public (originally, a "community" of people who use many ciphers indiscriminately to "decode the world") would be able to understand that some ciphers have a specific context to be used on, and that we can't just use any cipher we want to "decode" anything we want. Particularly if we're not sure that it was originally encoded in the first place.

My intention in talking about AQ is, contrary to what you're trying to imply, to make a cipher that was only superficially explored in the past in the context of Thelema become more widely known.

Also — I never devised Alphanumeric Qabbala. I just like it a lot. Hopefully, my upcoming text on AQ will show you why I like this cipher so much.

Posted by: @herupakraath
I'm thinking having some cards printed up that read:

CLAIMER: Magician, Prophet, Master of magical alphabets, Discoverer of the Key of it all!

What do you think?

Uhmm... idiotic?

Posted by: @herupakraath
Not really. It's an ordinal English gematria system that utilizes the values 10-35, and while you clearly borrowed the value assignments for the letters from the Base 36 system, the connection is superficial, not mathematical.

I thought that my previous explanation was clear enough, but I guess it wasn't.

Alphanumeric Qabbala consists of a continuous, non-redundant, alphanumeric sequence from 0 to Z, where the letters correspond to the digits of a Base-36 notation system. I also made clear that Alphanumeric Qabbala is not the same as Base-36 notation. The former is a system of Gematria where the values of the letters are added togethert — the latter is a notation system in which the numerical sequence has been expanded (similarly to Hexadecimal, or Base-16) to include the letters from A to Z as numerical digits. So in fact there isn't a mathematical connection between the two, but the letters are certainly valued in AQ as the numbers they correspond to in a Base-36 notation. It's not just "Ordinal starting at 10". It's an alphanumeric sequence from 0 to Z.

Posted by: @herupakraath
You're standing at the foot of Everest and K2. Good luck on your journey, I like your blog, and hope your efforts are productive.

Thank you.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

CLAIMER: Magician, Prophet, Master of magical alphabets, Discoverer of the Key of it all!

Well, I certainly look forward to the smite-down. Why be humble?

And who would have thought you too (as magician, prophet and whatnot) can be condescending too? Well, I would have (it is what logically follows reading your PDFs - sorry, that sounds so "unholy": PDFs?)

I hope you deliver ... those Egyptian adepts told you "soon", if I remember correctly.

(@threefold31)
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Dwtw

My first question is always: what does the entire text add up to? Because AC was supposed to not change a letter of it, so presumably every letter plays a role in the encoding. That's why there is supposed to be 'the Key of it All', which can be rearranged as 'All of it the Key'. So I look forward to seeing what your grand total is.

Using the single decimal digits and the 26 alphabet letters is an intriguing idea. But I see two drawbacks in regard to exploring Liber AL.

Verse 2:55 says to "obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet", which (arguably) means that the received order is not what was used to encode the text. You can change the values from 1-26 over to 11-36, but that only corresponds with one half of the injunction.

Separately, I see no intrinsic merit in the received order to begin with. To quote from the Book of Mutations:

"...gematria is based on the spelling of words, and words are not spelled based on alphabetical order, otherwise the word alphabet would be spelled “aabehlpt”.

The order of the English Alphabet is merely a convenience. It holds no special properties in and of itself, and relying on it, or any permutation of it, for a gematria is not necessary. Rather, the TQ proposes that the only real basis for a gematria of English has to be one that is completely random, chosen by an author such as Aiwass for purposes of encoding a message in the most effective manner possible. This results in a high proportion of words having important esoteric meaning, and a small proportion being either coincidence or uninteresting, as an necessary side-effect."

It might be interesting to combine the base-36 idea with the frequency of letters appearing in the text of Liber CCXX, either from lowest to highest or vice versa (so e.g. Z is either 11 or 36).

Note: all the numbers from zero to nine are mentioned in Liber Legis ... except seven.

Litllwtw

O.L.

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Posted by: @jinx

Uhmm... idiotic?

It was a rhetorical response to your disclaimer. There are quite a few advocates of gematria that present themselves as specifically not being the child mentioned in Liber Legis, and with no interest in solving any of the puzzles and ciphers in the text, and yet they just happen to have this gematria system...

Posted by: @jinx

If you know the works of Frater Perseverando on The English Cabalah - 111 or of the late David Cherubim on his own version of an English Qabalah, for example, you'll see that both were called "The Key of It All" by their proponents.

I am familiar with those efforts, and FYI, there is another document titled The Key of it All, by George T. Mortimer.

Posted by: @jinx

If you've read R. Leo Gillis' "Secrets of the Cipher Naughts"

I have, and fail to see the value in it, consisting of a snapshot in time that is not representative of the work done, at least not in my case.

Posted by: @jinx

you'll certainly remember that many different systems have been proposed in order to try to solve the aforementioned verses of Liber AL. And all of them certainly have their merits, in a way or another.

As exercises in method and technique, studying other systems can be worthwhile, and lead to interesting findings by modeling aspects of one system after another, so in that respect all efforts should be respected and found potentially useful. However, to pretend there is no interest in finding extraordinary things in the text of Liber Legis with a magical alphabet, and no interest in solving its puzzles and  challenges, for me borders on dishonesty. I work with gematria because I find it interesting and exciting, without putting any limitations on myself or the work.

Best of luck to you.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Well, I certainly look forward to the smite-down. Why be humble?

Why be so dour and humorless?

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

I hope you deliver

I always deliver.

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Posted by: @threefold31
My first question is always: what does the entire text add up to? Because AC was supposed to not change a letter of it, so presumably every letter plays a role in the encoding. That's why there is supposed to be 'the Key of it All', which can be rearranged as 'All of it the Key'. So I look forward to seeing what your grand total is.

That's a good question — and that was precisely one of the things I wanted to discuss with you. I've studied "The Book of Mutations" (yours) and I tried to replicate your method by counting the total value of AL using Trigrammaton Qabalah, including (1) all letters; (2) all numbers in the text; (3) the value of Thelema (=93) and Tzaddi (=90) in their respective systems (Greek Isosephy and Hebrew Gematria); as well as (4) the numbers of verses, but I think I may have missed something. There's only a difference of 5 from your total:

257997 — total sum of all letters in Liber AL (using TQ)
93 — Θελημα ("Thelema") in AL I:39
90 — צ (Tzaddi) in AL I:57
11 — number in AL I:60
143 — Numbers in AL II:76
418 — number in AL II:78
718 — number in AL III:19
2211 — Total sum of verse numbers in AL I
3160 — Total sum of verse numbers in AL II
2850 — Total sum of verse numbers in AL III

Grand Total: 267,691

I may be missing something here, so I would appreciate it very much if you could spot where my calculations went off. Thank you!

Posted by: @threefold31
Using the single decimal digits and the 26 alphabet letters is an intriguing idea. But I see two drawbacks in regard to exploring Liber AL.

Verse 2:55 says to "obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet", which (arguably) means that the received order is not what was used to encode the text. You can change the values from 1-26 over to 11-36, but that only corresponds with one half of the injunction.

In this case, and applying AQ to AL, I would read the "order & value" of the English Alphabet as referring to the order of the alphabet (coming after the Arabic numerals from 0 to 9, in AQ) and its value according to the positions of the letters after the Arabic numerals (thus A=10 since it comes after 9, then B=11, etc, until Z=35). It's quite interesting, however, that in that passage, both "English" and "Alphabet" are capitalized, and using AQ, "English" = 137 = "Alphabet".

However, and this isn't news to anyone, the text of AL is intentionally cryptic in many passages, so a clear meaning of the words may not be unequivocal for everyone. Add to that the fact that English is not my native language — so this interpretation may be completely off.

Posted by: @threefold31
The order of the English Alphabet is merely a convenience. It holds no special properties in and of itself, and relying on it, or any permutation of it, for a gematria is not necessary. Rather, the TQ proposes that the only real basis for a gematria of English has to be one that is completely random, chosen by an author such as Aiwass for purposes of encoding a message in the most effective manner possible. This results in a high proportion of words having important esoteric meaning, and a small proportion being either coincidence or uninteresting, as an necessary side-effect."

I can understand your reasoning, even though I would argue that any cipher (even using the values from 1 to 26 in a completely random order) will always show important numerical matches when applied to the Book of the Law — even though I also understand that your work with Trigrammaton Qabalah isn't based just on numerical matches.

For example, using the Ordinal cipher (A=1, B=2, ..., Z=26) the total of the verse in AL II:75 added to the string of numbers and letters in AL II:76 will be 777, a result that will also match the obtained when using Joel Love's Cipher X. If you do the same with Alphanumeric Qabbala, the total sum will be 1209, which is 13 x 93, two very important numbers in a Thelemic context. If you calculate the value of the numbers & the words in AL II:76 using EQ or TQ the sum will be 351, the 26ᵗʰ triangular number (meaning that 351 = 1+2+3+...+26). And if you use John Farthing II's Toavotea Key, the string of numbers & words will add up to 418.

So it's hard to say when a cipher is not "special" in a Thelemic context, if we're being guided only by the numerical matches we can get with any specific cipher. And this is what makes the quest for a "promised" English Qabalah so difficult — and often useless.

Posted by: @threefold31
It might be interesting to combine the base-36 idea with the frequency of letters appearing in the text of Liber CCXX, either from lowest to highest or vice versa (so e.g. Z is either 11 or 36).

Note: all the numbers from zero to nine are mentioned in Liber Legis ... except seven.

Even though it does show up in AL III:19, as part of the number 718. 😜

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

Why be so dour and humorless?

We both know there was no humour involved, man. Or is it still "man"?

Posted by: @herupakraath

I always deliver.

See?

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Posted by: @jinx

257998 — total sum of all letters in Liber AL (using TQ) (includes letters in Cipher of II:76)

93 — Θελημα ("Thelema") in AL I:39
90 — צ (Tzaddi) in AL I:57
11 — number in AL I:60

4 - number in AL  II:49

143 — Numbers in AL II:76
418 — number in AL II:78
718 — number in AL III:19
2211 — Total sum of verse numbers in AL I
3160 — Total sum of verse numbers in AL II
2850 — Total sum of verse numbers in AL III

Grand Total: 267,696

I may be missing something here, so I would appreciate it very much if you could spot where my calculations went off. Thank you!

Dwtw

Yes, your letter total was off by 1, and you missed the numeral 4 in verse II;49.

BTW, I generally count the Cipher as its own separate thing = 351, since it is arguable what value is supposed to be attributed to the letters. When looking at jst the English words of the text, (not the letters in the Cipher), the total is 257,790, which is awfully close to 10 x the length of the Precession of the Equinoxes in earth years..

Posted by: @jinx

In this case, and applying AQ to AL, I would read the "order & value" of the English Alphabet as referring to the order of the alphabet (coming after the Arabic numerals from 0 to 9, in AQ) and its value according to the positions of the letters after the Arabic numerals (thus A=10 since it comes after 9, then B=11, etc, until Z=35).

I see, so you change the 'order' by starting the letters later in the order of the numbers from 0-36. Fair enough. But you don't change the A-Z order of the letters themselves, and that's what is generally understood as the 'order of the English Alphabet'.

Posted by: @jinx
So it's hard to say when a cipher is not "special" in a Thelemic context, if we're being guided only by the numerical matches we can get with any specific cipher. And this is what makes the quest for a "promised" English Qabalah so difficult — and often useless.

Well, you bring up a good point that is missed by a lot of experimenters in this realm. There will always be some good 'hits'. But not every 418 'hit' is of any relevance. That's why I talked about relative percentages of information versus noise. If there s a super-intelligence at work, it surely knows that at the word level, there will be a ton of things that equal 93 that have nothing to do with the message of Thelema, for example.

Aside from that, gematria is only one aspect of the literal qabalah. What makes TQ so powerful is that it is based on Crowley's trigrams and the 0 = 2 formula, where the fundamental categories are the numbers themselves, not Hebrew letters or any other yetziratic attributions. By AC's own admission, Trigammaton is the 'ultimate foundation of the highest theoretical qabalah'. Anyone who takes those words seriously, and studies the trigrams in any detail, will see that he was right. And anyone who does theoretical qabalah without using the trigrams is not following the Holy Books of Thelema.

Posted by: @threefold31

Note: all the numbers from zero to nine are mentioned in Liber Legis ... except seven.

Posted by: @jinx
Even though it does show up in AL III:19, as part of the number 718. 😜

Yes, indeed. And in the verse numbers.

I should have been more specific: the number-words from none to nine are all mentioned, except seven.

Litllwtw

O.L.

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Posted by: @herupakraath

Posted by: @jinx

If you've read R. Leo Gillis' "Secrets of the Cipher Naughts"

I have, and fail to see the value in it, consisting of a snapshot in time that is not representative of the work done, at least not in my case.

Dwtw

It's too bad you don't see the value, when you have three proposed solutions in it, which is more than anybody else in the book! (your fourth solution came out after it was published, sorry!)

And I disagree that it doesn't represent the work done by the people listed in the essay. It gives the main points of their argument, and any reader can find their full work elsewhere. It would be against copyright for me to put the entirety of the various 'solutions' in the essay. They (and you) are fully capable of defending your own positions with extended commentary; I was just trying to compile the gist of as many 'solutions' as I could find. But maybe after 8 years it needs an update. Especially now that the actual solution has been found 😉

O.L.

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Posted by: @threefold31
I was just trying to compile the gist of as many 'solutions' as I could find. But maybe after 8 years it needs an update. Especially now that the actual solution has been found 😉

You haven't heard my solution. 😏

Actually it's quite humorous... and simple... and with it we would certainly understand why the numbers & letters are in their respective "position to one another" — even though I can't really explain all of it. And I still have many doubts that this would be a definitive answer to AL II:76.

This "solution", as it were, doesn't "mean" anything for me, except that the "riddle" was never intended to be taken seriously. There is no meaning as to which numbers or letters are used in it — but in fact how they are used.

Four times the same message is repeated:

"4 6 3 8 A B K"
"2 4 A L G M O R"
"3 Y X"
"24 89 R P S T O V A L"

And the message would be: Numbers come first; then come the letters.

And so the answer could be obtained, assuming that Alphanumeric Qabbala (as being derived from Base-36 notation, and 666 being the 36th triangular number) was the intended "key" to decode AL.

AQ = 0123456789 abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz.
(Numbers come first; then come the letters.)

I can't explain, however, why the same "message" would be repeated four times. However, what I do know is that the riddle contains exactly 28 numbers & letters, with 28 being a triangular number, just like 36. And if we organize the 0-Z alphanumeric sequence in the shape of a triangle, there will be 4 rows for the numbers, and 4 rows for the letters.

I make no claims whatsoever about "my role" in this, as I think that's irrelevant — and like I said before, I never intended to claim that AQ was the "Key of It All" or that I was the "child of the Beast". In my opinion, that's simply stupid and immature, and won't lead you (or me, or anyone) anywhere. I do believe, however, that AQ may be an important key in Thelema, and what I'm doing here is simply to play along with it, and trying to make it more widely known.

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Jinx: "Four times the same message is repeated:

"4 6 3 8 A B K"
"2 4 A L G M O R"
"3 Y X"
"24 89 R P S T O V A L"

And the message would be: Numbers come first; then come the letters."

No, Jinx, in your quoted statement above, "the same message" is not repeated "Four times", as the "message" supposedly concerning "3 Y X", would allegedly not be "Numbers come first; then come the letters.", but "[A] Number [or a Numeral] come[-s] first; then come the letters", or rather, "[A digit] [...] come[-s] first; then come the letters".

That, is, you Jinx, are "finding" a pattern which is not within the primary source material.

(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @threefold31

My first question is always: what does the entire text add up to?

The gematria of the entire text of Liber Legis when calculated with the AQ system is 480642.

Posted by: @threefold31

Because AC was supposed to not change a letter of it, so presumably every letter plays a role in the encoding. That's why there is supposed to be 'the Key of it All', which can be rearranged as 'All of it the Key'. So I look forward to seeing what your grand total is.

I think its asking a lot for one system to duplicate the results of another one, if that were the case your solution might not hold water.

Posted by: @threefold31

Especially now that the actual solution has been found

Well, we can always hope. 😉

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Every number is infinite~

Whistle while you work

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No, Jinx, in your quoted statement above, "the same message" is not repeated "Four times", as the "message" supposedly concerning "3 Y X", would allegedly not be "Numbers come first; then come the letters.", but "[A] Number [or a Numeral] come[-s] first; then come the letters", or rather, "[A digit] [...] come[-s] first; then come the letters".

That, is, you Jinx, are "finding" a pattern which is not within the primary source material.

English is not my native language, so I may have used the wrong phrasing.

Be it as it may, the question is that in "the numbers & the words" of AL II:76, letters always follow numbers (or numerals, or digits as you rightly said). And that's precisely the fundamental characteristic of Alphanumeric Qabbala.

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Again, maybe I didn't use the correct words. What I meant was that in AL II:76, numbers (or numerals, or digits) always come before letters. I hope it is correct this time, haha 😓

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @jinx

Again, maybe I didn't use the correct words.

If I got @wellreadwellbred correct, he was pedantic about the fact that your "solution" Numbers come first; then come the letters mentions "numbers" as a plural, but in "3YX" there is only one number, no plural. Which of course is a silly objection, if I indeed understood @wellreadwellbred correctly.

Jinx reacted
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@the_real_simon_iff it was just a question of using the wrong terms (from my side), but I guess you're right. 😜

However, he did something that I liked. 😋

@wellreadwellbred I don't know if you did this on purpose, but... I chose this nickname (amongst many possible others) for this forum because it sums 93 in Alphanumeric Qabbala. And I liked the fact that you wrote my nickname three times (more than necessary — let's be honest), thus concealing a hidden reference to "93, 93/93".

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the_real_simon_iff: "If I got [wrwb] correct, he was pedantic about the fact that your "solution" Numbers come first; then come the letters mentions "numbers" as a plural, but in "3YX" there is only one number, no plural. Which of course is a silly objection, if I indeed understood [wrwb] correctly."

hadgigegenraum: "Every number is infinite~ Whistle while you work[.]"

*] To clarify, my objection that you mention, is NOT based on what AC within his The Book of the Law that he authored, implied by stating "Every number is infinite; there is no difference.":

Within AC's "The New Comment" to "Every number is infinite; there is no difference.", that is verse 4 in the first chapter of his 3-chaptered The Book of Law, he does with respect to what he describes as "orthodox mathematical argument", claim that his "The Book of the Law presents an altogether different conception of the nature of number."

Earlier, in the same comment to the same verse, AC claims that "In this very early verse is already given a Master Key to mathematics and metaphysics. On applying this to current problems of thought, it will be discovered that the long-fast doors fly open at a touch."

And AC ends the same comment to the same verse, with hoity-toity claims:

"The above interpretation of the text is of a revolutionary character, from the point of view of science and mathematics. [...] the true spiritual science [...] will clarify, without superseding, the old; but it will free men from the bondage of mind, little by little, just as the old science has freed them from the bondage of matter.

This science is the proper and particular study of initiates, and its principia are formulated in the Book of the Law. This Book may therefore be regarded as indicating a complete revolution in human affairs, for it advances mankind in the most radical manner. The road of attainment to self-realisation is made open as never before has been done in the history of the planet."

**] And to further clarify, my objection that you mention, is, indeed, based on established definitions of math concepts, according to which:
"A concept is defined as an abstract idea. Therefore, a math concept is a generalized mathematical idea. Math concepts are things like the ideas of counting, [the numerical system[-s],] addition, and multiplication."
( Source: "What is a Math Concept?", within "How to Grasp Math Concepts?" - - - https://study.com/learn/lesson/math-concept-list-uses-examples.html )

And to even further clarify, my objection that you mention, is, indeed, based on the most basic explanation[-s] of established definitions of math concepts ("General[:] The site aims to cover the full Kinder- garten to Year 12[.]" ( Source: "About Math Is Fun" - - - https://www.mathsisfun.com/aboutmathsisfun.html ) ):

"A number is a count or measurement that is really an idea in our minds.

We write or talk about numbers using numerals such as "4" or "four".

But we could also hold up 4 fingers, or tap the ground 4 times. [...]

There are also special numbers (like π (Pi)) that can't be written exactly, but are still numbers because we know the idea behind them. [...]

A numeral is a symbol or name that stands for a number. Examples:

3, 49 and twelve are all numerals.

So the number is an idea, the numeral is how we write it. [...]

A digit is a single symbol used to make numerals.

0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 are the ten digits we use in everyday numerals.

[...]

Example: The numeral 9 is made up of 1 digit ("9"). So a single digit can also be a numeral [...]

Digits -> Numerals -> Numbers
So digits make up numerals, and numerals stand for an idea of a number. [...]

Just like letters make up words, and words stand for an idea of the thing."

( Source: "Numbers, Numerals and Digits" - - - https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/numbers-numerals-digits.html )

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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@wellreadwellbred Sometimes it is best to refer to the source material again, and lo and behold! You are absolutely correct!

(@threefold31)
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Dwtw

Thanks Lutz! now we have a new enigma to unravel. ROFL.

Putting the pedantry and nitpicking about a plural versus a singular aside, there is a further clue in verse 2:75. Although Jinx did not mention this specifically, it does say to 'listen to the numbers & the words'. And the numbers do come before the 'words' i.e., strings of letters if you start with 4 and read left to right.

Also, to be über clever, one could interpret 'listen' as a paronomasia of 'list ten' which would also lend support to listing the 10 digits of the decimal system before the alphabet letters.

But if the total of the English gematria by this method is really 480642 (per HPK), that's rather disappointing. That's 6 times a huge prime number, 80107. An interesting theory that doesn't come up with a comprehensive answer for Liber AL.

Considering that this AQ sequence runs from 0-35, then the sum is 630. The first four rows of the triangle sum 45, the last four rows sum 585. So, @Jinx is there a significant passage that equals 630 or 585 using this system, to refer to itself?

Litllwtw

O.L.

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AC's The Book of the Law (hereafter called BOTL), being a creation based on the Qabalistic Tree of Life, in which the three chapters of this "(BOTL chapter 1, verse 35.:) ... the threefold book of Law.", represents the three Supernals on the Qabalistic Tree of Life, respectively Binah, Chokhmah, and Keter, it is unclear if you are mixing up things, or "confusing the planes", the_real_simon_iff.

"(BOTL chapter 1, verse 4.:) Every number is infinite; there is no difference.", as a statement emanating from Binah (which is associated with with Babalon, and "the city of Pyramids", by AC within his second-most impotant book for his new world religion Thelema, The Vision & the Voice), does somehow makes sense. As respectively Binah, Chokhmah, and Keter on the Qabalistic Tree of Life, are in a realm in which there is no plurality, only unity, pertaining to a realm of ideas, or the Ideal, as they are all above the abyss.

With the following understood as a statement emanating from Chokhmah, this sentence is also from a realm in which there is no plurality, only unity, pertaining to a realm of ideas, or the Ideal, above the abyss on the Qabalistic Tree of Life:

"(BOTL chapter 2, verse 75.:) Aye! listen to the numbers & the words:"

The preceding sentence is a sentence used in a holograph ( = a manuscript handwritten by the person named as its author.), of BOTL. A book that AC authored for his new world religion Thelema, mentioned within this book, supposedly written in 1904, only by one year preceding him in 1905, explicitly stating that he intended to "... found a new world religion.", and at the same time predicting that "... in a hundred years, the world will be sitting in the dawn of a New Aeon."

(Source: Page 134, in the Revised and Expanded Edition 2010, of Richard Kaczynski's Perdurabo: The Life of Aleister Crowley.)

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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it is unclear if you are mixing up things, or "confusing the planes", the_real_simon_iff.

I do not and I never do. There are no digits and no numerals in the "hereafter called BOTL." That is all that is needed if one comes up with "digits and numerals and numbers". As someone who is on record here with another solution to "the cypher" you should know that. On the other hand, you seem to be quite sure that the three chapters of said BOTL are based on the Tree of Life. I think you are wrong.

(@shiva)
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n 1905, explicitly stating that he intended to "... found a new world religion."

So I guess it's settled, Thelema is a philosophy, a paradigm, a law, and a Religion - Says so in the Scriptures. Those who say, "Oh, it's not a religion - it's this or that, are merely stating their opinion or expressing their sensitive feelings ... but they are in contradiction with The Founder of a self-proclaimed Religion.

Whew!  I'm glad that's finally straightened out.

"... in a hundred years, the world will be sitting in the dawn of a New Aeon."

That's right. A couple decades ago. The Dawn. (You see? He accounts for, or recognizes, a transition period).

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the_real_simon_iff: "I do not and I never do. [ = mix up things or "confuse the planes"] There are no digits and no numerals in [Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law]."

My main emphasis is not the presence of both digits and numerals, within Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, that he authored for his (new world religion) Thelema.

My main point is that the statement "Every number is infinite; there is no difference." – contained within this book – makes sense as a message from Binah, one of the three Supernals on the Qabalistic Tree of Life, as these three Supernals are all in a realm in which there is no plurality, only unity, pertaining to a realm of ideas, or the Ideal, as they are all above the abyss.

As there is no differentiation within Binah, Aleister Crowley in a footnote to The Cry of the 19th Aethyr, in his second-most impotant book for his new world religion Thelema, The Vision & the Voice, refers to Binah as "the Devourer of all Things", when stating that "The Destruction of the Universe by the Devourer of all Things is the necessary beginning of the Initiation to the Grade of Magister Templi."

In the same book "BABALON" is within the main text of The Cry of the 2nd Aethyr, described as having "... crushed all the blood of all things into her cup."

That is, as Binah, aka Nuit, aka Babalon, is in the realm of the ideal, (or ideas), above the abyss, "all things", like for example any number[-s], are in that realm nothing more than undifferenced or undifferentiated ideas, or undifferenced or undifferentiated potentials for ideas.

Or as "The founder of Thelema, author Aleister Crowley, says of the Abyss in his Little Essays Toward Truth:

This doctrine is extremely difficult to explain; but it corresponds more or less to the gap in thought between the Real, which is ideal, and the Unreal, which is actual. In the Abyss all things exist, indeed, at least in posse, but are without any possible meaning; for they lack the substratum of spiritual Reality. They are appearances without Law. They are thus Insane Delusions.

Now the Abyss being thus the great storehouse of Phenomena, it is the source of all impressions."

Notice also these quotes from The Cry of the 3rd Aethyr, in second-most impotant book for his new world religion Thelema:

"And for this is BABALON under the power of the Magician, that she hath submitted herself unto the work; and she guardeth the Abyss[14]. And in her is a perfect purity of that which is above; yet she is sent as the Redeemer to them that are below. For there is no other way into the Supernal Mystery but through her, and the Beast on which she rideth; and the Magician is set beyond her to deceive the brothers of blackness, lest they should make unto themselves a crown[15]; for if there were two crowns, then should Ygdrasil, that ancient tree, be cast out into the Abyss, uprooted and cast down into the Outermost Abyss, and the Arcanum which is in the Adytum should be profaned; and the Ark should be touched, and the Lodge spied upon by them that are not masters, and the bread of the Sacrament should be the dung of Choronzon; and the wine of the Sacrament should be the water of Choronzon; and the incense should be dispersion; and the fire upon the Altar should be hate. But lift up thyself; stand, play the man, for behold! there shall be revealed unto thee the Great Terror, the thing of awe that hath no name. [...]

[14] She is Binah, ruled by the path of Beth.

[15] Meaning, to construct a true Tree, of which Dath should be the summit. This is in fact the great error of the rationalists - both in science, like Bchner, and in religion, like Buddha. Knowledge is not, and cannot be, the crown of Consciousness, if only because the Logic beyond the Abyss convicts it of essential self contradiction. Dath, as seen by the Magister Templi, is so far from being the opposite of Ignorance that it is actually a demonstration that the Intellect is incapable of Truth.

[...] And thou shalt give the sign of the Mother, for BABALON is thy fortress against the iniquity of the Abyss, for the iniquity of that which bindeth her unto the Crown[...], and barreth her from the Crown; for not until thou art made one with CHAOS[31] canst thou begin that last, that most terrible projection, the three-fold Regimen which alone constitutes the Great Work. [...]

[31] The mystery of CHAOS is beyond the comprehension of any but Masters of the Temple. One can only hint that this is at once the Formula of the Feminine Trinity and of the All-Father."

the_real_simon_iff: "... you seem to be quite sure that the three chapters of said BOTL are based on the Tree of Life."

Yes, very much so, and the subject matter of Aleister Crowley, from as early as 1902[*], deliberately basing his (new world religion) Thelema on the Qabalistic Tree of Life – with an unique approach apparently invented by him – is covered by me, at length and in detail, in my posting dated "23/02/2021 11:06 am", on page 5 in the thread named Crowley and his discrepancies.

( Source: Crowley and his discrepancies - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/crowley-and-his-discrepancies/paged/5/#post-115256 )

[*] Core Qabalah related elements of what Aleister Crowley used in his The Book of the Law, supposedly written in 1904, was already covered by him in 1902, where he when mentioning "all religions", is particularly enthusiastic about "the Buddhist" and "the Qabalistic". and repeatedly and positively refers to Qabalah, in his Berashit An essay on ontology [= the branch of philosophy that studies concepts such as existence, being, becoming, and reality] with some remarks on ceremonial magic., from 1902.

I this essay Aleister Crowley (page 1:) presents a "theory of the Universe"., and (page 2:) claims to have "re-discovered the long-lost and central Arcanum (or secret) of the Qabalists", with respect to how they explain the "First Cause" of the Universe, a "First Cause" which he describes as "... Not, and nothing else."

The core importance of Qabalah to Aleister Crowley's (new world religion) Thelema, corresponds with him stating that "It has been my continual study since 1898, [...]." (Source: Chapter XXXV: The Tao (2), in his book Magick Without Tears.

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(Sorry for chainposting.)

Please note, Aleister Crowley's unique position of authority, according to "The Cry of the 3rd Aethyr", within The Vision & the Voice, the second-most important book he wrote for his new world religion Thelema:

"... there is no other way into the Supernal Mystery but through her, and the Beast on which she rideth ...".

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Posted by: @threefold31
Considering that this AQ sequence runs from 0-35, then the sum is 630. The first four rows of the triangle sum 45, the last four rows sum 585. So, @Jinx is there a significant passage that equals 630 or 585 using this system, to refer to itself?

Yes, there are some — but as always, don't forget that practically all the Thelemic ciphers we know about will always deliver some kind of 'relevant' result.

Regarding AQ and Liber AL. There are only two (complete) verses that add to 630 in AQ:

AL I:24. "I am Nuit, and my word is six and fifty."

AL I:66. "The manifestation of Nuit is at an end."

Which is interesting, since "Manifestation" adds to 263, the 56ᵗʰ prime number. This, however, could be completely irrelevant.

Regarding the value 585, I've only found one significant passage (not a complete verse), which may or may not be relevant as well (it's hard to say):

"Listen to the numbers & the words." (AL II:76)

In this case, the sentence itself has 26 letters (ignoring the ampersand), and it sums 585 in AQ and 351 in Ordinal.

(@threefold31)
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Posted by: @jinx

Regarding the value 585, I've only found one significant passage (not a complete verse), which may or may not be relevant as well (it's hard to say):

"Listen to the numbers & the words." (AL II:76)

In this case, the sentence itself has 26 letters (ignoring the ampersand), and it sums 585 in AQ and 351 in Ordinal.

Dwtw

That correspondence seems pretty relevant to your argument.

If the baseline is A-Z = 1-26, this in turn makes these 26 letters equal 351, meaning they are equal to the sum of the whole alphabet, the same as the sum from 1 to 26. Then you apply AQ and you raise each letter value by 9, so naturally you will also get a total (585) that matches the total of your AQ alphabet.

If this phrase is then a stand-in for the alphabet, then it's worth looking at that ampersand as the break in the sequence of 26 letters; you have 18 before it and 8 after it. In the AQ, your first 18 letters are the first three rows of letters in your triangle; they sum 333, and the last 8 letters are the bottom row of your triangle; they sum 252.

You could find some English equivalents of these to see if there is a fit.

Litllwtw

O.L.

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@threefold31 I've just published my newest & most deeply coded text on Alphanumeric Qabbala:

The wonders & magic of Alphanumeric Qabbala

In this text I also expanded on my solution to AL II:76, by comparing the numbers & letters in AL with the rows of numbers & letters in the "AQ triangle". Here's a snapshot of the corresponding part:

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