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# Another look at the Cipher of Liber AL II:76

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(@threefold31)
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06/05/2014 5:06 am

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

There are many solutions proffered for the great Cipher of Liber AL II:76. The following is yet another, on hitherto unexplored grounds.

The Cipher as it appears in the holograph manuscript is:

4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y
X 24 89 R P S T O V A L

Many commentators in the past, including yours truly, have remarked on two important features of this Cipher. First of all, the number 24 appears prominently: the numbers in the top row of the Cipher have 24 as their Least Common Multiple (LCM), and of course the number 24 itself appears as well. If we consider that the numbers in the top row can be multiplied together, we have 4 x 6 = 24; 3 x 8 = 24; 2 x 4 x 3 = 24. So that makes four references to the number 24 in the Cipher.

Secondly, the number 89 is curious, because it is a large prime number that had no qabalistic importance before the writing of Liber AL. Yet it is also another reference to 24, since 89 is the 24th prime number. This makes five references to 24 in the Cipher.

Considering these five references, it is reasonable to assume that the only other reference to 24 will also be important; this is the 24th character of the Cipher, which is the letter ‘T’. This occurs in the letter-string RPSTOVAL, which Crowley summed to 418. He did this by using Hebrew transliteration, and making the letter combination of ST, or Shin-Tet, equal XXXI, by addition of the Tarot keys associated with them, namely, XX for Shin/The Aeon, and XI for Tet/Lust. Note well that the Tarot referent to this letter T is the Lust card, bearing the image of Babalon astride the Beast, as noted in Revelation chapter 17, vv. 3-5.

Now let us incorporate the numbers of the Cipher into a pair of equations that reveal a very specific number for their result. We begin in the forward direction, and multiply all the numbers severally except the final one. Thus we have:

4 x 6 x 3 x 8 x 2 x 4 x 3 x 24 = 24^4 = 331,776

I will leave it to John Griffith to expound the importance of the number 331,776, as it relates to a four-dimensional Hypercube. For the present purpose, it is only important to note that this product equals 24 to the fourth power.

We now begin with the final number, the enigmatic 89, and work in the reverse direction, by multiplying it with its neighbor 24, and the sum of all seven numbers in the top row of the Cipher, which is 30. The result is thus:

89 x 24 x 30 = 64,080

We then simply subtract this product from the previous product and the result is:

331,776
- 64,080
267,696

As it happens, the total of 267,696 is the exact grand total of the contents of Liber CCXX using the Trigrammaton English Gematria. This total is precise; not close or in the ballpark, but the exact total of Liber CCXX using the TEG. The odds that this result is merely a coincidence must be astronomically high. And it is important to note that the values of the English letters used in the TEG come from Crowley’s own assignment of the letters to the trigrams in Liber Trigrammaton.

To arrive at the grand total or 'global sum' of Liber CCXX with two simple formulae taken from the numbers of the Cipher is powerful evidence that this gematria is correct. Although we could stop there, the fact is that this grand total of CCXX has already been shown in the past to be hidden in the Cipher in another way. Up to this point, we have arrived at the grand total using only the numbers in the Cipher, thus avoiding the main grounds for dispute, which are the letter values. But since this total indicates that the TEG is the correct gematria for Liber CCXX, we can then proceed to the next step and incorporate the letter-values of this gematria in the next equation.

The sum of the numbers in the Cipher is 143. The sum of the letters (by TEG) is 208. Multiplied, this gives us 29,744. All we need to do is multiply this product by 9 to get our grand total again. And where will this 9 come from? It is found in the 24th letter of the Cipher, the letter ‘T’ mentioned above, which has a TEG value of 9, (coincidentally matching its Hebrew transliterated value of 9 for the letter Tet).

So now we multiply the sum of the numbers by the sum of the letters by the value of the 24th glyph. The result is:

143 x 208 x 9 = 267,696 = the grand total of the contents of Liber CCXX

We may then continue the subtraction from the previous result, and arrive at the final answer:

(4 x 6 x 3 x 8 x 2 x 4 x 3 x 24) - (89 x 24 x 30) - (143 x 208 x 9) = 0

331,776 - 64,080 - 267,696 = 0

In this way, we follow the instruction to “unite by thine art so that all disappear”

To conclude, we may sum up all the numbers contained in this final equation:

4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 + 24 + 30 + 143 + 208 + 9 = 557

557 = THERION KOKKINON = “Scarlet Beast” = the name of the Beast as given in the original Greek in the Book of Revelation 17:3

Thus the sum of all the numbers used in the final equation is equivalent to the name of the Beast, who appears on the Lust card, whose sign is Leo, whose letter is Tet, or T, the 24th glyph of the Cipher.

Love is the law, love under will.
R. Leo Gillis

(@newneubergouch2)
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06/05/2014 8:22 am

'Tis the chosen one! Hes not the messiah, hes just a naughty boy.

(@threefold31)
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07/05/2014 5:20 pm

Dwtw

A humorous response indeed 🙂 Not sure what it has to do with the original post?

Litlluw
RLG

(@shiva)
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07/05/2014 5:39 pm
"threefold31" wrote:
A humorous response indeed 🙂 Not sure what it has to do with the original post?

It refers to the OP (Original Poster)  😉

(@threefold31)
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07/05/2014 11:56 pm

Dwtw

Ah! well, if The Shoe fits, wear it  😉

Litlluw
RLG

(@newneubergouch2)
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08/05/2014 2:44 am

Also add up the five 24s for more insights 😉

But yes, one of the far better ideas about the cipher that i have seen.

(@threefold31)
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08/05/2014 7:33 am

Dwtw

Indeed, 120 provides many insights, including being the mystic number of Heh, which in the Thoth Tarot is Aquarius, the sign opposite that of Leo, the Beast.

And if one counts all 6 references to 24 (the last of which is more hidden), we then have 144, which is the next Fibonacci number after 89. This may be another reason 89 appears in the Cipher?

And as a sort of check-sum, just add up the single digits of all the numbers used to get the final equation:

4+6+3+8+2+4+3+2+4+8+9+2+4+3+0+1+4+3+2+0+8+9 = 89

This thing is crafted like a Swiss watch.

Litlluw
RLG

(@newneubergouch2)
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08/05/2014 9:50 am

keep going-expand it and then eventually make a hard copy PDF and perhaps Lulu it, or make your own booklet for posterity.

it is one of the more better solutions, so dont let it fade out on the internet.

(@threefold31)
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08/05/2014 6:30 pm

Dwtw

Indeed, I will be adding it to the already lengthy exposition of the Cipher in my Book of Mutations. I think there is still more here to discover, but this seems very promising so far.

Litlluw
RLG

(@threefold31)
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18/05/2014 3:02 am

Dwtw

Pursuing another avenue of inquiry into the Cipher, the following is not postulated as a solution, but the results are highly suggestive.

The equation above had referenced the number 557 and the name ‘Scarlet Beast’ from Revelation by using Greek gematria. Another instance of such a coincidence is the grand total of Liber CCXX, which offers two more allusions to the Book of Revelation:

Grand total of CCXX = 267,696 = 156 x 1716
156 = BABALON = Babalon
1716 = ThRONON TOU ThERIOU =  Throne of the Beast (Rev. 16:10)

Considering the prominence of the number 24 in the Cipher, in a qabalistic context it is highly suggestive of the 24 letters of the Greek alphabet. This is reinforced by the references to Revelation given above. With that in mind, we can investigate what results may obtain when using that system.

Again, the Cipher is:

4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y
X 24 89 R P S T O V A L

The three letters that require some guesswork are Y, X, and V. Strictly speaking there is no Y or V in Greek, and X might be one of two letters, Xi or Chi.
For Y, we may use the letter Upsilon. In general, words with this letter in the Greek original, are transliterated as Y in English, e.g., the word KATALUSIS becomes Catalysis.

For V, we might consider it either as a lower case letter Nu, which has the shape ‘v’, or else as an inverted capital Lambda, which would have the shape ‘V’.

Now considering the Roman letters as representing Greek letters, the top row of the Cipher is:

Alpha, Beta, Kappa, Alpha, Lambda, Gamma, Mu, Omicron, Rho, Upsilon =

1 + 2 + 20 + 1 + 30 + 3 + 40 + 70 + 100 + 400 = 667

667 = H KOKKINH GYNH = The Scarlet Woman

This result confirms the somewhat arbitrary association of the letter Y, and gives us the name of the Scarlet Woman from Revelation.

The letters of the bottom row of the Cipher:

Xi, Rho, Pi, Sigma, Tau, Omicron, Lambda (inverted), Alpha, Lambda

60 + 100 + 80 + 200 + 300 + 70 + 30 + 1 + 30 = 871

871 = XAOS = Chaos

Chaos is the groom of the Scarlet Woman / Babalon, as noted in Liber Cheth vel Vallum Abiegni:

“This is the secret of the Holy Graal, that is the sacred vessel of our Lady the Scarlet Woman, Babalon the Mother of Abominations, the bride of Chaos, that rideth upon our Lord the Beast.”

We have made two arbitrary decisions here; X is transliterated as the letter Xi, which is pretty common, although by shape it could also be Chi (X). Also, we have used the inverted letter Lambda, based on shape. The results are satisfying, but it could be argued that the ‘V’ is actually an Upsilon. Our English letter V did not exist in Latin, whose capital ‘V’ is actually the letter U, which is derived from Upsilon. Interestingly, if we substitute Upsilon for Lambda, our total is now 1241;

1241 = TO XAOS = The Chaos.

So the top row of letters provides 'The Scarlet Woman', and the bottom row provides 'Chaos'. In the Thelemic mythos, The Scarlet Woman is the bride of Chaos, who rides upon the (Scarlet) Beast. All of these are referred to in the Cipher.

The other alternative for the letter ‘V’ is to use the lower case letter Nu, which looks much like a ‘V’. In that case the entire bottom row totals 891:

891 = OURANOS = sky, heavens, Uranus

a potent word indeed, and this would make the string RPSTOVAL by itself equal 831:

831 = PURAMIS, PhALLOS, MAKROKOSMOS = Pyramid, Phallus, Macroscosm

Of course, these gematria totals could refer to other things entirely, but the prevalence of terms related to Revelation and the Crowleyan corpus lend weight to the associations made above.

As for the numbers in the Cipher, we may use them as values for Serial Greek gematria, thus:
4 = Delta; 6 = Zeta; 3 = Gamma; 8 = Theta; 2 = Beta; 4 = Delta; 3 = Gamma; 24 = Omega; 89 has no equivalent.
The letter values would then sum to 832 + 89 =  921:

921 = TO BOULHMA = The Will

Where the word Thelema appears numerous times in the Greek New Testament, Boulema appears only three times. The meaning is more like ‘purpose’, or a purposeful plan that will be executed, as opposed to the meaning of ‘intention’ indicated by Thelema. This highlights one interpretation of Liber AL verse I:44 -- “For pure will (Thelema), unassuaged of purpose (Boulema), delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect.”

If one understands ‘delivered from’ to mean ‘brought by’ and not ‘relieved of’, then the verse would mean that the Pure Will (Thelema), not lessened of the Purpose (Boulema) that is provided by having a lust of result, is perfect in every way.

What is interesting about using the numbers of the Cipher for Serial Greek to generate ‘To Boulhma’, is that simply adding up the numbers equals 143, which is the Alexandrian value of the word AGAPHN = Agapen = Love. This form of the more familiar Agape appears in Luke 11:42 in the mention of the Love of God.

So in this way the numbers of the Cipher encrypt the idea of Love (Agapen) under Will (Boulema).

To summarize, this use of the Greek interpretation of the Cipher results in - The Scarlet Woman, combined with Chaos, interspersed with Love under Will.

Litlluw
RLG

Anonymous
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21/05/2014 1:50 pm

The “secret key”, as the good book reminds us, is that there is no secret key.
“Nothing is a secret key of this law.”

“…then this circle squared in its failure is a key also.”

Dante's most divine of comedies (Paradiso Canto XXXIII lines 133–135) contains these wise verses:

“Qual è ’l geomètra che tutto s’affige
per misurar lo cerchio, e non ritrova,
pensando, quel principio ond’ elli indige,

As the geometrician, who endeavours
To square the circle, and discovers not,
By taking thought, the principle he wants,

tal era io a quella vista nova:
veder voleva come si convenne
l’imago al cerchio e come vi s’indova;

Even such was I at that new apparition;
I wished to see how the image to the circle
Conformed itself, and how it there finds place;

ma non eran da ciò le proprie penne:
se non che la mia mente fu percossa
da un fulgore in che sua voglia venne.

But my own wings were not enough for this,
Had it not been that then my mind there smote
A flash of lightning, wherein came its wish.

A l’alta fantasia qui mancò possa;
ma già volgeva il mio disio e ’l velle,
sì come rota ch’igualmente è mossa,

Here vigour failed the lofty fantasy:
But now was turning my desire and will,
Even as a wheel that equally is moved,

l’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

The Love which moves the sun and the other stars.”

Let us leave aside these petty concerns, put down our calculators and turn instead to the “Love which moves the sun and the other stars.”

All else is apophenia of the most disconcerting and unedifying variety.

(@los)
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21/05/2014 3:40 pm
"Wei Jingxing" wrote:
The “secret key”, as the good book reminds us, is that there is no secret key.
“Nothing is a secret key of this law.”

[...]

Let us leave aside these petty concerns, put down our calculators and turn instead to the “Love which moves the sun and the other stars.”

All else is apophenia of the most disconcerting and unedifying variety.

This is the best post I've seen on this site in a while. Bonus points for quoting Dante in the original Italian.

(@michael-staley)
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21/05/2014 4:18 pm
"Los" wrote:
"Wei Jingxing" wrote:
The “secret key”, as the good book reminds us, is that there is no secret key.
“Nothing is a secret key of this law.”

[...]

Let us leave aside these petty concerns, put down our calculators and turn instead to the “Love which moves the sun and the other stars.”

All else is apophenia of the most disconcerting and unedifying variety.

This is the best post I've seen on this site in a while. Bonus points for quoting Dante in the original Italian.

Best post?

So someone says, in the proverbial nutshell: "What you're interested in is petty; leave it aside for what I think is important", and you're having an orgasm.

On second thoughts, that sort of narrow-mindedness is pretty much your outlook, isn't it.

(@michael-staley)
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21/05/2014 10:23 pm

Apologies for my unnessarily combative tone, Los.

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21/05/2014 11:17 pm

jamie barter in the thread "Liber L. vel Bogus - The real confession of Aleister Crowley" - http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=82261#p82261 - asked the following question:

"jamie barter" wrote:
Paul, by way of consolation perhaps maybe you could possibly inform everyone when your own book on similar matters is due to appear?  Please don’t intimate a similar fate of non-appearance might be in store!

jamie barter got the following answer to that question:

"lashtal" wrote:
The final draft will be prepared following my next research visit to Luxor - no date for that yet, I'm afraid.

Considering the theme of this thread, "Another look at the Cipher of Liber AL II:76", my question is if the Cipher of Liber AL II:76 is covered in the said book?

(@threefold31)
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22/05/2014 7:45 pm
"Wei Jingxing" wrote:
The “secret key”, as the good book reminds us, is that there is no secret key.
“Nothing is a secret key of this law.”

Dwtw

That is one interpretation, but it is negated by the fact that 'nothing' is then given a numerical value, both in the Hebrew Qabalah, and in Nuit's own version. Perhaps your disdain for calculators has caused you to leave out that very important context?

Now if the text said "Nothing is a secret key of this law, so don't look for a key, just go and do such-and-such instead", your interpretation would make a lot more sense. But when Nuit specifically posits a numerical riddle, and you ignore it, and then quote Dante to supplement your inclination to avoid calculation, then your post becomes much less persuasive as a rational argument, and remains persuasive on the level of poetry alone.

Personally, I avoid Dante in the original Italian, since I can't read or understand Italian. Maybe Los can and that's why he's so happy to find it here, but to me, it's just a bunch of mellifluous syllables. I'm sure the English translation is close to the original meaning, but the fact is that Dante wrote in Italian Tersa Rima, and translating it is like making a plaster cast of Michelangelo's David.

Of course, I accept that Dante is a genius, because expert opinion has given him these accolades, and who am I to dispute that when I can't even read Italian? It is much the same with deciphering the Book of the Law.

"Wei Jingxing" wrote:
Let us leave aside these petty concerns, put down our calculators and turn instead to the “Love which moves the sun and the other stars.”

All else is apophenia of the most disconcerting and unedifying variety.

The point is that deciphering something which is specifically given AS a cipher, and finding a connection between that and the whole of the work, is not apophenia at all, IMO. It's a form of cryptography. While one can find the same meaning in lots of different numbers, and lots of different meanings for the same numbers (as in the Greek example above), finding a precise mathematical equation as given in the original post is far more difficult than coming up with gematria equivalents via transliteration.

I do share the sense that one ought not to be carried away with number-crunching. There is something sublime about Liber AL that no numbers can relate. But to me, it is all the more sublime when I'm cognizant of the fact that there actually is a mathematical framework to it. That AL in fact bridges the poetic and the numerical, the romantic and the scientific. Sure, every number is infinite, but why mention that if numbers aren't important? And sure, the stars and space are infinite too, and these are also mentioned because they're important.

One can employ Abrahadabra without being concerned about the nuances of the number 418. To me, (pun intended) knowing those nuances simply enhances the efficacy of Abrahadabra. They are sufficient without being necessary, and the same could be said for AL II:76

Litlluw
RLG

(@threefold31)
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22/05/2014 8:11 pm

Dwtw

Perhaps I was mistaken to 'muddy the waters' by posting the material on the Greek transliteration of the cipher. I thought it was interesting because of the connection to the number 24, but as I said it is suggestive only, and not meant as a solution. I have also seen some very cool things done with Hebrew transliteration as well in this area.

But to return to the point of the original post, it is helpful to keep in mind a couple things about Liber AL. The Book specifically says to not change a letter, implying that every bit of it is important. And it instructs AC (or someone) to obtain a gematria for the English Alphabet. Combining these concepts, it follows that any English gematria should total the entire Book and see what the result is. This was done, in the case of the TEG, almost two decades ago.

If one then looks at the Cipher - a deliberately cryptic part of the Book - and uses the unequivocal numbers to get the same result as the gematria of the whole Book, then it is not a case of finding patterns where there are none. It is a case of synchronicity between two disparate methods of exegesis. Now we are all free to accept or reject this coincidence, regardless of the astronomical odds against its occurrence. But we are not free to pretend it does not exist.

Part of the problem with this whole area of exegesis is that in the past there have been many sloppy and overzealous qabalists who have essentially cried wolf and given the whole enterprise a bad reputation. Long strings of number-equivalents are SO not convincing to me, or anyone but the authors of such speculations. And finding one's own name and birthdate in the Law is something of a cottage industry. But setting aside unconvincing (and self-aggrandizing) attempts from the past, this particular interpretation of the Cipher stands on its own merits. Where the danger lies is in the application. Knowing that the total of the Book can be found in the Cipher, there is a tendency to start finding sub-totals that are supposedly significant, when in fact they are not, (thus the trend toward apophenia). But in this case, we are simply talking about the value of the whole text, and the value gleaned from the numbers of the Cipher.

Litlluw
RLG

(@spike418)
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24/05/2014 1:53 pm
"threefold31" wrote:
Perhaps I was mistaken to 'muddy the waters' by posting the material on the Greek transliteration of the cipher. I thought it was interesting because of the connection to the number 24, but as I said it is suggestive only, and not meant as a solution. I have also seen some very cool things done with Hebrew transliteration as well in this area.

In ALW the 24th letter is T.
God = 24 in that cipher.
One essay suggested that the word BEAST could be interpreted as "Be As T"

ALways

Spike

(@john-griffith)
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24/05/2014 5:09 pm

Leo wrote:

“If we consider that the numbers in the top row can be multiplied together, we have 4 x 6 = 24; 3 x 8 = 24; 2 x 4 x 3 = 24. So that makes four references to the number 24 in the Cipher.”

Never noted the last product, nor the perfect 4th power product of the first 8 numbers.

The product of the digits of 24 and 89 equal 24 hence the product of the numeric characters of “the numbers & the words” equal 24 to the 5th power.

4•6•3•8•2•4•3•2•4•8•9 = 24[sup:25iak967]5[/sup:25iak967]

When I was a kid I thought the manuscript writing of the “For” of “For he is ever a sun” when flipped upside down looked like the manuscript writing of  the “24” of “the numbers & the words.”  Never could however see what if anything it might signify.

In regards to ‘beastly’ mythology, 24 is the number of the elders of the Apocalypse ( Revelation 4:4 & 4:10 ).  The 24 crowned elders appear in the archivolts of the center Royal Portal of Chartres Cathedral, the “Second Coming of Christ”, along with the Apostles, Enoch and Elijah, the Four Beasts ( 4 Kerubim ), and Christ.

“ Secondly, the number 89 is curious, because it is a large prime number that had no qabalistic importance before the writing of Liber AL.”

I would not go so far as to say that, I am sure there have been plenty of literal Kabbalists through the ages who have pondered the number 89.  In the section of “A Brief Essay on the Nature and Significance of the Magical Alphabet” entitled “The Meaning of the Primes from 11 to 97” Crowley states that 89 is “A number of sin – restriction.  The wrong kind of silence, that of the Black Brothers.”

Why Crowley reduced the ‘meaning’ of the number to ‘sin’ is not completely clear, although it appears to be related to the fact that one of the Hebrew words denoting ‘body’ – גופ[/font:25iak967] - ‘GVF’ – can also mean to be closed and shut up, and hence on the the analogical basis of the meaning of one word he limited its meaning to one of his favorite notions, that of a Black Brother.  Gesenius reads GVF as the same as the Arabic GVF – to be hollow, and to be, or to be hid away in the midst of any thing, to shut a door, ( to cause that anything within be hid away ).  With the addition of the letter He or Ha at the end of the word – GVFH – in both Arabic and Hebrew it signifies Body, Corpse, from the idea of being hollow – also in Arabic GVF – belly, cavity.  Later Rabbinic usage simply reads GVF as Body, Person.  In this respect see the primary OED entry for Had as Person,

“””

[OE. hád = OS. hêd, condition, rank (:—OTeut. *haidu-z: cf. Goth. haidus way, manner, OHG. heit m. and fem., person, personality, sex, condition, quality, rank, ON. heiðr honour, dignity, Sw. häder, Da. hæder honour). Being used in comb. with ns. as in cild-hád, mæᴁden-hád, etc., this word, after its obsolescence as an independent word, remained as a suffix, ME. -hod, mod. -hood q.v. The n. after 1200 appears in southern and midl. ME. as hôd, in north. as had, hode; the forms in a being much more numerous, it is here treated under had, although, if it had lived on, the modern Eng. form would have been hode or hoad.]

1.1 Person (in various senses).

c 900 tr. Bæda's Hist. iv. xix. [xvii.] (1890) 312 Ænne God on þreom astondnessum oðþo hadum.    c 1000 Ags. Gosp. Matt. xxii. 16 Þu ne be-sceawast nanes mannes had.    c 1000 Ælfric Gram. xxii. (Z.) 127 Þry hadas synt worda. Se forma had ys þe sprecþ be him sylfum ana.    c 1175 Lamb. Hom. 99 An god‥on þreom hadan.    c 1200 Ormin 10989 Þreo hadess, Faderr and Sune and Haliȝ Gast.    a 1225 Ancr. R. 26 On almihti God, þrile ine þreo hodes.

“””

This last sense Massey expounds upon in his “Natural Genesis”.

In my judgement, not only is it absurd to reduce the meaning of 89 to sin – [  and here are we to read the “word of sin” in the manuscript as the Babylonian Moon God ? – or the writing of the word in the manuscript as “Jin”

in which case it recalls the rich etymological denotations of that root in Hebrew and Arabic – Wine – Spiritous Liquor – Embodied Spirits – Jin – Genie – even – GN – Garden – and of course the Indo-European analogue of Jin – Vin – etc. ] – but even if it were the case that one can “fix” the meaning of a number to a specific idea or set of ideas – how ought one to choose among ideas which are not in harmony either through opposition or homonymy or other relation?  One of my favorites for 89 is the word - טפ[/font:25iak967] - TF – Child – according to Gesenius collectively ( plural ) – TFY – little children, boys and girls, so called from their brisk and tripping gait, sometimes it extends to the whole family and is opposed only to the head of the house, e.g., Genesis 47:12 – לפי הטפ[/font:25iak967]  – “According to their family, according to the child”

“ Yet it is also another reference to 24, since 89 is the 24th prime number. This makes five references to 24 in the Cipher.”

Also the number 24 follows the letter X in the series of “the numbers & the words” and X is the 24th letter of the English Alphabet.  My own researches into the text does suggest Crowley mapped natural numbers to prime numbers.

“ Now let us incorporate the numbers of the Cipher into a pair of equations that reveal a very specific number for their result. We begin in the forward direction, and multiply all the numbers severally except the final one. Thus we have:

4 x 6 x 3 x 8 x 2 x 4 x 3 x 24 = 24^4 = 331,776

I will leave it to John Griffith to expound the importance of the number 331,776, as it relates to a four-dimensional Hypercube."

I will have to get back to you on that one.  It possesses unique hypercubic and integral product relations to a couple of numbers of the natural numbers which belie the notion “there is no difference.”

“  So now we multiply the sum of the numbers by the sum of the letters by the value of the 24th glyph. The result is:

143 x 208 x 9 = 267,696 = the grand total of the contents of Liber CCXX”

Another way to get your grand total is simple to multiply the product of the sum of the numbers & the sum of the letters of “the numbers & the words” using your base three trigram values of the letters AC assigned to Trigrammaton by one possible value of the second key of III 47 – the so called circle squared key – since in the Phoenician script or Proto-Canaanite Alphabet – the letter T  is denoted by a hieroglyph which looks like the circle squared hieroglyph

Hence the product of the Trigrammaton Trigram Base Three sum of the letters and the sum of the numbers of “the numbers & the words” times the circle squared key equals the circle of the text squared, i.e., summed perfectly.  When we remember that the identical perfect sum is derived from the Trigrammaton Trigram Base Three sum of the first 7 tokens of the text, i.e.,

1 Had the manifestation of the Nuit 2 = 286

times the respective character counts of these tokens we get your global sum again.

286•1•3•3•13•2•4•1 = 267,696

As subtle as the serpent himself, i.e., A.C., but actual nonetheless.  One imagines AC with his Victorian/Edwardian calculating machine, ferverishly computing encryptions for the ages.  I will give him this, as difficult as it is to decipher his work on that level, he at least left enough clues to trace it through, and the work is relatively short, and determined in precise details as to its non-stop characters.  Can you imagine trying to make heads or tails of the labyrinthine cryptology Joyce encoded in Finnegans Wake?  It would be a nightmare, as indeed it actually is!

“ We may then continue the subtraction from the previous result, and arrive at the final answer:

(4 x 6 x 3 x 8 x 2 x 4 x 3 x 24) - (89 x 24 x 30) - (143 x 208 x 9) = 0

331,776 - 64,080 - 267,696 = 0

In this way, we follow the instruction to “unite by thine art so that all disappear” “

I have to say it is a pretty elegant way to derive your Trigrammaton sum from the numbers alone of “the numbers & the words.”  I do not think the various global sums of AL calculated using the classical values of the Key of B would be derivable from the simple numbers of the 'cipher' since those global sums primarily map to prime numbers.

“To conclude, we may sum up all the numbers contained in this final equation:

4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 + 24 + 30 + 143 + 208 + 9 = 557

557 = THERION KOKKINON = “Scarlet Beast” = the name of the Beast as given in the original Greek in the Book of Revelation 17:3”

Interesting that 557 equals the Greek of Revelation 17:3 as the 27 Generations of the Sixfold Star of Shem in Genesis equals 6684 so that one ray of the twelve rays of this sixfold star ( the 12 sides of the star ) equals 557 and using the classical method of the minimum “Assyrian” or “Phonecian” values of the letters, ( אז = ב = בהטישאיפא[/font:25iak967]  – see the “Line To Be Adopted” of the final page of the Equinox of the Gods ), and reading HAD as VAD in accordance with “I am the Empress & the Hierophant, thus eleven as my bride is eleven”.  Then spelling the names of the letters of VAD and NUIT we get

VAD = VV ALP DLTh = 557 = NVN VV IVD TYTh = NUIT

As you may or may not remember, the finals sum of the names of the letters of the conjunction of Had and Manifestation equals the Generations of the Sixfold Star in Genesis X

Had-manifestation = 6684 = ShM to YVBB

Note the conjunction of HADMANI – reading Shemitic/Hamitic as was popular through the 1800’s and early 1900’s, and even before – HADM – The Man – ANI – the Papyrus of Ani – the Egyptian Book of Coming Forth By Day – or the Book of the Dead – the Mortuary Spells which the ancient Egyptians, and Crowley were so fond.  If the non-finals spelling of the Generations of the Sixfold Star equals 6684, the finals spelling of the identical generations equals 11104, which as I have noted before equals the sum of the numbers & non-finals spelling of the names of the letters of

“Aye!  Listen … What meaneth this o prophet?” = 11104 = שֵׁם עֵילָם אַשּׁוּר אַרְפַּכְשַׁד לוּד אֲרָם עוּץ חוּל גֶתֶר מַשׁ שָׁלַח עֵבֶר פֶּלֶג יָקְטָן אַלְמוֹדָד שָׁלֶף חֲצַרְמָוֶת יָרַח הֲדוֹרָם אוּזָל דִּקְלָה עוֹבָל אֲבִימָאֵל שְׁבָא אוֹפִר חֲוִילָה יוֹבָב[/font:25iak967]

It reminds me of the funny passage in Finnegans Wake where Shem babs!  Hence one of my central literal Qabalistic interpretations of “the numbers & the words” ( and it is also arrived at through a number of other elegant ways ) is that it signifies the Sixfold Star so key to AC’s 'hermetic' conception of existence ( uniting the 5 and the 6; NU = 56 = 11; Abrahadabra – see the invocation of the five and the six AC supposedly recited prior to writing AL.  A couple of other ways to derive the Sixfold Star.  The finals spelling of the names of the letters of “the numbers & the words” equals the number of alpha-numeric characters between the first word of the second chapter and the first word of the third chapter ( including verse number characters )

ABKALGMORYXRPSTOVAL = 7794 =  Nu-Abrahadabra Characters

The Hadit ‘death’ principle of chapter two is embodied in the 7840 non-stop characters of the second chapter, as the Great Pyramid is 280 cubits high and there are 28 digits or fingers in one cubit, so that the height of the Great Pyramid equals 7840 ancient Egyptian digits.  You get your resurrection, Jew and otherwise, in your Abrahadabra War-Machine, a popular & perennial conception circa era Crowley

Another elegant way to derive the Sixfold Star from “the numbers & the words” is through the “chance shape” of the letter “G” in the manuscript, reading the “G” as either an ornate “C” ( with serif ) or as a “C” with an equals sign inserted within it ( see the C of verse 3 of Trigrammaton ( where G = 3 ) “was it equilibrated” ) in which case the sum of the number characters and names of the letters of “the numbers & the words” when the letter C is read written in the G equals the names of the Hebrew letters of ARARIThA spelled in full

: 4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L C M O R 3 Y X 2 4 8 9 R P S T O V A L = 3474 = אראריתא[/font:25iak967] ::

Another approach is to take the rational product of the above series of characters separating them into three groups which equals the identical rational product of the first verse of the book.

4638ABK24AL C MOR3YX2489RPSTOVAL = 24691358.024691358 … = Had the manifestation of Nuit

Hence by this method the cipher means no more or no less than the first verse.  The rational product of a word or phrase is the product of the odd placed letters or numbers of a word or number divided by the product of the even placed letters or numbers of a word or number.  For instance, the rational product of

I am above you and in you = 1

equals unity.  Without exhausting ‘Sixfold Stars’ of AL sum the first 12 verses or rays of AL ( not including verse numbers ) and it equals the 1855th prime number

AL I Verses 1 to 12 = Prime 1855 = 15913 =  יה[/font:25iak967] בראשית[/font:25iak967] - Jah in the Beginning

where the 12th verse of AL equals 1855 = שם השמים[/font:25iak967] – Name of Heaven – Sixfold Star of Heaven.

This is one of a number of interesting mappings of the natural numbers & the prime numbers in AL.

Reductio ad absurdums of AL are also fun.  For instance, let us pretend that the so called “numbers & the words” are actually a case of an unknown blockage of AC’s brain, a case of “ill for I am the worshipper”  “because of me in thee which thou knewest not” – Crowley the lost soul who did not know himself either because he forgot to practice tthe Delphic maxim “Γνωθι Σεαυτον” or for some other reason real or imaginary.  If then it is possible to reduce the letters of the “the numbers & the words” to “ILL” we will then have reduced it to LIL – the Lamp of the Invisible Light of the 1st Aethyr in which the child appears “whom thou knewest not” and indeed through this very precise number shenanigans that is exactly what it is possible to do via mathematical chaos, i.e., iterated recursion of the spelling of the names of the letters.  Lest you think I am the child who appears, trust me, at best it is a dwarf homunculus of Crowley, although you may see your own face reflected in it!  So if you sum the names of the letters of “the numbers & the words” spelled in full

ABKALGMORYXRPSTOVAL = 8188 = ILL = LIL :::

you get the finals spelling in full of the names of the letters of LIL spelled in full!  LIL is also of course the root of NIGHT – LaYLaH – in Hebrew.  If you drag the first L and place it atop the second L so that they are perfectly congruent, and then you flip the first L vertically, and then horizontally so that the two L’s form a little rectangular box, you can insert the I into the box like a little light shining in a lantern, through which you can wander Hades, and live happily ever after!  One can call it the rectification of intelligence, and understand it as a double genitive.

“And if one counts all 6 references to 24 (the last of which is more hidden), we then have 144, which is the next Fibonacci number after 89. This may be another reason 89 appears in the Cipher? “

I have mentioned before a number of Fibonacci divisions of the text.  There are 233 numbers in CCXX – 220 verse numbers & 13 text numbers – where 233 is the 13th Fibonacci number.  There are 144 numbers up to the first number of “the numbers & the words,” so that the verse number of the verse of “the numbers & the words” is the 144th verse/text number of the CCXX and divides the text into the extreme and mean ratio, i.e., the golden ratio, 233 divided by 144 = 1.6180555…  ~ 1.618034.  Hence, from the first number of “the numbers & the words” through the last verse number of the text there are 89 numbers, so that the verse number of “the numbers & the words” and the first number of “the numbers & the words” divides the text into the golden ratio, 144 divided by 89 ~ 1.618.  The twelfth Fibonacci number 144 is the only square Fibonacci number, as well as the only Fibonacci number which is the square of its own index.  144 appears two more times in the verse/number structure of CCXX.  There are 144 verse/text number characters from the beginning of the second chapter through the verse number of “the numbers & the words.”  There are 144 verse/number characters in the third chapter.

As I mentioned before, Mario Livio in his book on the Golden Ratio remarks that one of the ancient Greek names for the Golden Ratio is τομη ( hence the reason why in most mathematical literature the ratio is denoted by the Greek letter Tau ).  As is well known these are the identical Greek letters AC transliterates the ‘call’ of Nuit – To Me! To Me! – by and they equal 418 – so by Greek isopsephia the word denoting the golden ratio equals 418.  The chief word which equals 418 ( by the classical Hebrew values ) in AL is the word ABRAHADABRA.  From the first Abrahadabra = 418 to the second Abrahadabra = 418 ( from the first word of AL III 1 through the phrase “And Abrahadabra” in AL III 47 ) there are 1597 Words, Numbers, & Ampersands, ( excluding verse numbers ) where 1597 is the 17th Fibonacci numbers.  The number of words, ampersands, and number characters ( including verse number characters ) in the first two chapters equals 4181 – the 19th Fibonacci number – so that

AL I II / AL III Abrahadabra–Abrahadabra = 4181 / 1597 = 1.6180339 squared = φ[sup:25iak967]2[/sup:25iak967]

One may remark that 1597 is the year that Michael Maestlin wrote a letter to Johannes Kepler detailing the first known calculation of the inverse golden ratio as a decimal 1 ÷ φ = .618034.

Similarly, the finals spelling of the first four letters of Abrahadabra equals ALPh BYTH RYSh ALPh = 2584 = 18th Fibonacci number so that the golden ratio equals

AL I II / ABRA = 4181 / 2584 = ABRA / AL III Abrahadabra-Abrahadabra = 2584 / 1597 = φ

The classical values of B sum the first Abrahadabra to the second Abrahadabra including verses numbers ( where 462 is the number of words, ampersands, & number characters from the end of the second Abrahadabra to the end of the book ) as

1 Abrahadabra … And Abrahadabra = 418 • 462 = 418 • 11! ÷ 5! ÷ 6! = 418 • 11! ÷ 86400 = 418 • 11! ÷ Solar Seconds in Length of 1 Day

Well, I did not answer directly to the hypercube question, but at least I got some neo-Crowley Qabalistic blarney off my chest!

JG

(@john-griffith)
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24/05/2014 6:00 pm

There appears to be an edit time limit on posts, so in regards to the 4[sup:3iu43raj]th[/sup:3iu43raj] line of my last post

"The product of the digits of 24 and 89 equal 24 hence the product of the numeric characters of “the numbers & the words” equal 24 to the 5th power"

"The product of the digits of 24 and 89 equal 24[sup:3iu43raj]2[/sup:3iu43raj] hence the product of the numeric characters of “the numbers & the words” equals 24 to the 5th power"

JG at Pigeon Point Lighthouse Highway 1

(@threefold31)
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Posts: 415
25/05/2014 7:28 am

Dwtw

Thanks for these insights JG.

"John Griffith" wrote:
Leo wrote:

“If we consider that the numbers in the top row can be multiplied together, we have 4 x 6 = 24; 3 x 8 = 24; 2 x 4 x 3 = 24. So that makes four references to the number 24 in the Cipher.”

The product of the digits of 24 and 89 equal 24[sup:2ic478zq]2[/sup:2ic478zq] hence the product of the numeric characters of “the numbers & the words” equal 24 to the 5th power.

4•6•3•8•2•4•3•2•4•8•9 = 24[sup:2ic478zq]5[/sup:2ic478zq]

Very cool, I hadn't thought of that.

"John Griffith" wrote:
“ Secondly, the number 89 is curious, because it is a large prime number that had no qabalistic importance before the writing of Liber AL.”

I would not go so far as to say that, I am sure there have been plenty of literal Kabbalists through the ages who have pondered the number 89.

Undoubtedly, the number 89 may have been significant to someone before, but important? I don't think so, not on the level of 61, 207, 26, etc.

"John Griffith" wrote:
“ Yet it is also another reference to 24, since 89 is the 24th prime number. This makes five references to 24 in the Cipher.”

Also the number 24 follows the letter X in the series of “the numbers & the words” and X is the 24th letter of the English Alphabet.  My own researches into the text does suggest Crowley mapped natural numbers to prime numbers.

Yes, I hadn't thought of that either. It may indicate that assigning sequential prime numbers would be of value in a gematria, making the 24th letter, X, have a value of the 24th prime, 89. And it's also yet another reference to 24 in the Cipher.

"John Griffith" wrote:
“To conclude, we may sum up all the numbers contained in this final equation:

4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 + 24 + 30 + 143 + 208 + 9 = 557

557 = THERION KOKKINON = “Scarlet Beast” = the name of the Beast as given in the original Greek in the Book of Revelation 17:3”

Interesting that 557 equals the Greek of Revelation 17:3 ... Then spelling the names of the letters of VAD and NUIT we get

VAD = VV ALP DLTh = 557 = NVN VV IVD TYTh = NUIT

Yes, this equivalence of god-names-in-full is very telling. Although obviously the number 557 could refer to lots of different things, and we are just choosing what seems most relevant, it is also worthwhile to note that in the Trigrammaton English Gematria,

557 = 302 + 255 = Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law + Love is the law, love under will.

So the numbers that make up the final equation of the Cipher of II:76 are equal to the two most important phrases of the Book of the Law.

"John Griffith" wrote:
Another elegant way to derive the Sixfold Star from “the numbers & the words” is through the “chance shape” of the letter “G” in the manuscript, reading the “G” as either an ornate “C” ( with serif ) or as a “C” …

Previously, I might have agreed with this line of reasoning, but the recent publishing of the Windram Thelema copy shows clearly that Crowley wrote the capital letter G in the same unusual way there, in a marginal note to Liber XXVVII. So I would have to conclude that this letter is most definitely a G, as odd as it may look, and not a C with two extra serifs.

"John Griffith" wrote:
“And if one counts all 6 references to 24 (the last of which is more hidden), we then have 144, which is the next Fibonacci number after 89. This may be another reason 89 appears in the Cipher? “

I have mentioned before a number of Fibonacci divisions of the text.  There are 233 numbers in CCXX – 220 verse numbers & 13 text numbers – where 233 is the 13th Fibonacci number.  There are 144 numbers up to the first number of “the numbers & the words,” so that the verse number of the verse of “the numbers & the words” is the 144th verse/text number of the CCXX and divides the text into the extreme and mean ratio, i.e., the golden ratio, 233 divided by 144 = 1.6180555…  ~ 1.618034.

Yes, this is nice, I had forgotten about that occurrence of the Phi Ratio that you found.

"John Griffith" wrote:
Well, I did not answer directly to the hypercube question, but at least I got some neo-Crowley Qabalistic blarney off my chest!

JG

Thanks for the input. You mention the numbers and numerals in the text quite a bit, and it reminded me of another equivalence. Starting with the verse number of the Cipher, the remaining fourteen numbers in chapter two sum to:

76 + 143 + 77 + 78 + 418 + 79 = 871 = Greek XAOS = Chaos, the groom of Babalon.

This is significant in light of the the fact that using Greek transliteration, the bottom row of letters of the Cipher also equal 871, as I noted in a previous post. And this is right where the 144/89 split occurs in the set of 233 numbers in the Book, as you noted - 144 numbers before verse number 76, and 89 numbers from there to the end.

Now there is another curiosity at this 'breaking point' in the text. Immediately before the verse number 76 is the contents of the prior verse:

"Aye! Listen to the numbers and the words." = 369

Now what's interesting here is that this is precisely equivalent to verse 24 of chapter one:

"I am Nuit, and my word is six and fifty" = 369.

Now it is established beyond doubt that the number 24 is deeply involved n this Cipher. So it is perhaps not surprising that the 24th verse of the Book is related to the very phrase which tells us to prick up our ears and hearken to the Cipher about to be revealed.

What is even more curious is that Nuit says her 'word' is 'six and fifty'. Crowley felt this indicated the word NU in Hebrew (Nun-Vav), which equals 56. But NU is also the name of the Greek letter N, which just happens to be the letter with the value of 24 in the English Gematria of Trigrammaton.

Let's put that another way: the Cipher points to the number 24, and so we look at the trigram with a value of 24, which is associated with Scorpio and the English letter N, whose antecedent is the Greek letter N, (whose name is NU), which is cognate with the Hebrew letter Nun, (which is also attributed to Scorpio). Since both the Hebrew and Greek letter N has a value of 50, this letter plays a role in the six and fifty riddle of the 24th verse.

The following verse, number 25, says: "Divide, add, multiply, and understand."

Well if we start with 'six and fifty' as 56, and we 'divide', we might initially divide this number in half, giving us 28, the number of glyphs in the Cipher.
Then we 'add' the two different types of glyphs, the numbers (143) and the letters (208).
Then we multiply these two sums (143 x 208).
And finally we 'understand', i.e., we achieve Understanding, which is Binah, the third Sefira of the Tree of Life, home of Saturn, whose magic square is 3 x 3, i.e., it contains the numbers from 1 to 9.
So to 'understand', we multiply this 9 with the 143 x 208 already established, and we get, once again, 267,696 = the global sum of Liber CCXX.

It should be noted that the verses with the key to this formula are numbered 24 and 25.
In the TEG, the letters that equal 24 and 25 are N and U.
So the word NU indicates the verse numbers which give us a way to unlock the Cipher so that we get the grand total of Liber CCXX. And that word NU is also the name of the Greek letter N, whose number is 24 in the TEG, the same number that is so obviously intertwined with the Cipher of II:76.

Litlluw
RLG

P.S.
If we take 6 and 50 and multiply them by each other, we get 300, which is the sum of 1-24, and thus the 'mystic number' of the 24th path of the Tree, which is attributed to the letter Nun. So 24 can get us to the letter N in this way also. But if we look strictly at the sum of 1-24, we still have 300, but this need not relate to Hebrew exclusively. 300 might also be the letter Tau in Greek, the ancestor of the letter T, which is the 24th letter of the Cipher.

(@los)
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Posts: 2195
25/05/2014 5:52 pm
"threefold31" wrote:
Personally, I avoid Dante in the original Italian, since I can't read or understand Italian. Maybe Los can

I can read Italian well enough, and reading a foreign language produces practical results, which is more than I can say for this numerical gobbledy gook.

Of course, I accept that Dante is a genius, because expert opinion has given him these accolades, and who am I to dispute that when I can't even read Italian? It is much the same with deciphering the Book of the Law.

Ah, argument from faulty analogy. It just never gets old.

(@threefold31)
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Posts: 415
27/05/2014 5:35 am

Dwtw

Oh Los, you spend so much time blathering on about the topics that interest you in other threads. If you don't like arithmology and numerical qabalah, why don't your just read something else?

I'm happy for you that you can read Italian, I figured you could. As for practical results, no one ever equated gematria with pranayama, and introducing the concept of 'practicality' here is meaningless, since you are comparing apples to oranges. So please discuss practicality in a thread where it is applicable.

As for your other claim, there is no faulty analogy here. People who are experts in Italian literature of Dante's time are qualified to give their expert opinion. I trust them, because I am not an expert, and they are. The same is true here; anyone who is not an expert in this field of (English) qabalah should accept that fact and not assume that their opinion holds the same weight as that of someone who knows the subject in depth. You may not appreciate JG's blarney, or mine, but that doesn't mean we are incorrect in our statements.

For example, the last time you tried to question a similar methodology, in this thread,

I showed you quite plainly that the numerical results I arrived at were NOT reproducible in other texts, despite your claim to the contrary. Your response was to not respond, not even to admit that perhaps you had made a claim without having the specialized knowledge needed to back it up.

If you can find some specific fault with the very simple equation postulated in the original post, then please do. Several of the subsequent posts were speculative, and not meant to be anything definitive. You can probably find fault with plenty of them, as can I, but it would simply be a matter of aesthetics, to which everyone is entitled to an opinion.

So let's get back to the actual topic. There is a simple solution postulated for the Cipher. Some (possible) newbie quoted Dante and opined that it was apophenia. That's one opinion, to which I gave an informed response. If you can do something more substantive than cheer for the quoting of terza rima, then let's hear it.

Litlluw
RLG

(@threefold31)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 415
27/05/2014 6:53 am
"spike418" wrote:
In ALW the 24th letter is T.
God = 24 in that cipher.
One essay suggested that the word BEAST could be interpreted as "Be As T"

ALways

Spike

Dwtw

Yes, I've always liked that interpretation of the word BeAsT. The coincidence that the 24th letter of the Cipher and the 24th glyph of the ALW sequence are both T is suggestive. also, when you exhaust the 26 letters in the ALW sequence nd return to the beginning to continue, then the 27th and 28th letters are AL, just as the 27th and 28th glyphs of the cipher.

It was noted long ago that the TEG and the ALW arrive at the same total for the letters of the Cipher - 208, despite being completely different gematria sets. So my original equation arrives at 267,696, which is 143 (numbers in the Cipher) times 208 (gematria of letters in cipher by TEG or NAEQ) times 9.

Where the TEG uses 9 as the value of T, the 24th glyph, in your case the NAEQ would use the value of 9 as K, the 7th glyph. And of course the TEG arrives at the grand total of Liber CCXX, while NAEQ does not, (its grand total is a completely different number).

Now since the ALW sequence is arrived at by increments of 11 steps through the received alphabet, it takes 143 steps to get from the initial A to the letter N, so perhaps this is relevant to the Cipher in some way. Regardless of ALW as a gematria, it would take 143 steps to get from A to N by that algorithm, and N is given the value of 24 in the TEG, as noted in my prior post. That being the case, one could say that the total of the numbers in the Cipher, 143, in one sense points to the letter N, which happens to have the value of 24 in the equation that gives us the grand total of Liber CCXX. So that is yet another hidden reference to 24 in the Cipher.

Litlluw
RLG

(@los)
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28/05/2014 4:47 am
"threefold31" wrote:
As for your other claim, there is no faulty analogy here. People who are experts in Italian literature of Dante's time are qualified to give their expert opinion. I trust them, because I am not an expert, and they are. The same is true here; anyone who is not an expert in this field of (English) qabalah should accept that fact and not assume that their opinion holds the same weight as that of someone who knows the subject in depth.

The "faulty" part of the analogy is that while there are experts in literature who can demonstrate their expertise, there aren't "experts" in playing numerology games.

Example: people who read Italian sufficiently well can tell us, objectively, what Dante is saying in those lines quoted above. There will be little minor differences in translation from one to the next, but the sense will be very, very similar. They can further tell us how the ending fits with the rest of the poem structurally and how the entire poem fits into Dante's overall view of the world. And while there will be, again, minor differences in interpretation, there will be a remarkable amount of consistency.

Compare that consistency to all the wide variety of "solutions" to the Liber AL riddle, and you'll see where the "faulty" part comes in.

(@threefold31)
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Posts: 415
29/05/2014 4:58 am

Dwtw

I beg to differ. I believe you're putting the emphasis entirely in the wrong place.

It's not a question of one person who has a 'solution' to II:76 being necessarily qualified to critique another person's 'solution', (although this may happen). It is not the fact that someone has a 'solution' that makes them an expert.
There are qabalistic experts, and there are qabalists with a 'solution', (of varying degrees of quality). The two groups are not coincident, nor are they mutually exclusive. I know some from each group, and a couple who are in both groups.

Fratres AMO, RIKB, and SRKT, along with John Griffith are all top-notch qabalists who are qualified to critique high-level theoretical qabalah, especially from a mathematical perspective. None of them have a specific 'solution' for II:76 that I know of, although all have dabbled with it.

In the second group, Fr. RVS, T. Moss, and Jake Stratton-Kent are also all qualified in regard to theoretical qabalah. I mention them even though you will never hear from RVS online, TM is more or less antithetical to my approach, and JSK is a proponent of the NAEQ. So while none of them are 'followers' of Trigrammaton by any stretch, I would still value their opinion on anything I proffered.

And of course I fall in the second camp. Naturally, I am not unbiased toward my own work, but I most certainly can judge the theoretical qabalah of others, and I've been doing so online since 1998. What I can't do is read Italian and judge Dante. That's somebody else's area of expertise.

There are of course other very good qabalists out there, but the ones I've mentioned have actually created work that I have studied, so I can speak to their talent. And the fact is that there have been a good dozen or more 'solutions' to II:76, (of which I only consider three to have any serious merit). But there are a large handful of experts in the field, and most if not all of them can separate the wheat from the chaff. Of course you won't get the same 'translation' from all of them, but arithmology (which BTW has nothing to do with numerology), is not quite the same as translating Dante. The point is that there are experts in both fields, but the fields themselves are not comparable.

All that notwithstanding, Crowley said the solution "will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction." If that is actually true, then the solution should not require the expertise of the best qabalists to understand, in its simplest exposition. It should be understandable by those with a basic grasp of the subject and the Cipher in question, and it should be convincing.

Personally, I think that anything more than three steps removed from the glyphs of the Cipher is probably not the solution. The real answer (even if it has multiple layers of meaning) has to be pretty simple. Like the straightforward equation that I proffered in the original post. It's not for me to say whether it has "immediate conviction", but I believe it has the "sublime simplicity" required. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't post it. I personally have found plenty of other enigmas in the Cipher that I feel are fascinating, but too convoluted to be an actual 'solution'. They might resonate with the 28 glyphs, but they do not decode them. The distinction is missed by almost everyone who has ever attempted to solve the Cipher.

Litlluw
RLG

Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/06/2014 11:58 am

Firstly let me be clear that I meant no offence by my comment. As Mr Staley rightly pointed out, my post did indeed reflect an opinion of "What you're interested in is petty; leave it aside for what I think is important." We all operate from this level, no matter how universal we like to think our viewpoint is.

To clarify my viewpoint then, I firmly believe that gematria is total folly.

It has never yielded a single insight worthy of note that is not due entirely to chance. It is cherry picking of the most egregious variety. Anything that does not fit the pattern the gematrifier is looking to express is unceremoniously ignored. This ignored data constitutes the vast majority of material.

If we aspire to a system that holds dear the method of science with the aim of religion, yet engage in a technique that ignores any data that fails to fit with our preconceived notions then this is a most lamentable state of affairs.

This is true from our most beloved 93 down to the “…but one cometh after him…Key of it all…” messianic pretensions.

Isn’t it cute that Thelema = Agape. Find me the word Agape in Liber Legis. If we admit that a subtle harmony exists in Koine Greek between will and love (and agape is certainly not a word suitable in any way to the concept of love in Liber Legis) then we must also posit that the word “blix” in Greek, which also enumerates to 93 must also partake of this harmony. Unfortunately “blix” means idiot, fool and also implies the notion of erectile dysfunction.

Goose. Gander. You can’t cherry pick.

To suggest that there is a secret code in the enumeration of letters of various ancient or modern languages whereby an innate sympathy or subtle harmony exists between two concepts by virtue of their value in purely arbitrary numeric value is not only preposterous, it is technically a psychotic condition, called as I mentioned in my first post, apophenia.

I mentioned Dante because I feel that this particular quote, coming as it does at the very conclusion of the Divine Comedy is reasonably pertinent as it concerns the folly of the squaring of the circle. Let us not forget that Liber Legis quotes from other key renaissance texts verbatim. Sir Thomas Urquhart’s translation of Rabelais's “Do what thou wilt” should be reasonably familiar.

I quoted the original because I firmly believe that when quoting a translation in any language one should give the source.

The squaring of the circle mentioned in both the conclusion to the Divine Comedy and in Liber Legis, is common English parlance for an impossible task.

If a certain book suggests that the failure to square the circle is in itself a key, then I find this reasonably significant.

Perhaps of course some “The child of thy bowels” will come and disprove my rant above and force me to accept my folly.

My humble understanding of this oracular utterance, however, is that there is only one possible offspring from ones bowels, but I don't wish to meander into discussions of digestive health, despite what I believe to be a certain kinship between said, bowel sent offspring and the gematric indulgences mentioned above.

(@markus)
Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 251
04/06/2014 4:56 pm
"Wei Ching-Hsing" wrote:
To clarify my viewpoint then, I firmly believe that gematria is total folly.

It has never yielded a single insight worthy of note that is not due entirely to chance. It is cherry picking of the most egregious variety. Anything that does not fit the pattern the gematrifier is looking to express is unceremoniously ignored. This ignored data constitutes the vast majority of material.

You're absolutely right. Gematria is absolute folly ... because you have deemed it so. That's the beauty of Occultism, or, as Paul Daniels would say: "Now that's Magic(k)!"

Markus

(@jamie-barter)
Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 1688
04/06/2014 5:28 pm
"Markus" wrote:
You're absolutely right. Gematria is absolute folly ... because you have deemed it so. That's the beauty of Occultism, or, as Paul Daniels would say: "Now that's Magic(k)!"

And doesn't he also wisely opine: “You’ll like it – not a lot, but you’ll like it…”

(& didn't he also have (/ still has?) a car with the unusual registration plate 'MAG1C'?!)

Not being in any way associated with Debbie McGee -
Norma N Joy Conquest

(@newneubergouch2)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
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05/06/2014 12:06 am

Wei Ching-Hsing? Los? I am perplexed.

(@threefold31)
Member
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Posts: 415
05/06/2014 4:40 pm
"Wei Ching-Hsing" wrote:
To clarify my viewpoint then, I firmly believe that gematria is total folly.

It has never yielded a single insight worthy of note that is not due entirely to chance. It is cherry picking of the most egregious variety. Anything that does not fit the pattern the gematrifier is looking to express is unceremoniously ignored. This ignored data constitutes the vast majority of material.
...
Isn’t it cute that Thelema = Agape. Find me the word Agape in Liber Legis. If we admit that a subtle harmony exists in Koine Greek between will and love (and agape is certainly not a word suitable in any way to the concept of love in Liber Legis) then we must also posit that the word “blix” in Greek, which also enumerates to 93 must also partake of this harmony. Unfortunately “blix” means idiot, fool and also implies the notion of erectile dysfunction.
...
To suggest that there is a secret code in the enumeration of letters of various ancient or modern languages whereby an innate sympathy or subtle harmony exists between two concepts by virtue of their value in purely arbitrary numeric value is not only preposterous, it is technically a psychotic condition, called as I mentioned in my first post, apophenia.

Dwtw

Your position suffers from a couple of typical fallacies. First of all, the commonly held misconception is that two words having the same value are in harmony with each other, and that gematria is showing us which concepts are coincident. This is as silly as it is unnecessary. I don't need gematria to tell me which concepts to put together. I can contemplate the connections between a cherry tree and a garbage can, regardless of whether their names have the same value.
In actuality it is the words that tell us something about the Number, not the number telling us something about the Words. Most people get this completely backwards, and thus misunderstand the fundamental value of gematria.

Now it is true that in a large number of cases, data are cherry-picked to suit an agenda, and I agree that this is lamentable. I think such practitioners are not very good qabalists. However, to generalize about gematria in general from the poor practices of a few qabalists, is to do the same kind of cherry-picking that you are arguing against! There are high caliber qabalists who do not engage in this sort of thing, some of whom i mentioned in my last post. Their practices go against the grain of cherry picking.

On your claim that no gematria result has been anything but chance, there are two things wrong with this position. One is that gematria is not supposed to reveal insights about words and concepts, as I noted above. It reveals something about numbers. So the 'insight' you find lacking is rightfully so, since that is not where the insight actually resides. Secondly there are certain gematria results that are almost certainly beyond chance. Would you like to calculate the odds that the TEG gets a total for Liber CCXX that is precisely the same as that found by using the numbers in the Cipher? I expect you will say, that there are plenty of other numbers that one can generate from the Cipher, and that I cherry-picked the ones I liked. Well, there's no denying that I landed on a resonance that I found significant. But it doesn't change the odds one little bit that such a coincidence occurred in that data. To claim there is a connection between the Cipher and the TEG gematria system is not to claim that there is no other possible data-set. It is to claim there is IS one data set that is highly significant, regardless of what the other ones provide. And this is not an infinite process. There are many ways to manipulate the nine numbers found in the Cipher, but there are not an infinite number of connections to be found, using simple arithmetic. One does eventually exhaust the possibilities.

As for Thelema being equal to Agape, you are correct, Agape does not occur in Liber Legis. Neither does blix, or any other Greek word. And it certainly is cherry-picking to hone in on the agape equivalence, and ignore one that might not be so lofty, such as the concept of an idiot, (although that too might be seen in a certain positive sense). But I think you're missing the trees for the forest here. If one goes into said forest and collects some new insect specimens, one has the task of giving them an new classification. Now obviously there are lots of insects that are alike, and one might place a new species in many different genera. So does the insect belong to ALL of them ? - of course it does, on a higher scale, such as the Class of Insecta. But on a lower scale, one has to find specific characteristics that match up this new insect with one already known. And this is what we do when we connect Agape with Thelema, but ignore blix. Because Agape means a type of love, and Love is supposed to be connected with Will, while being an Idiot is not (usually 😉

And that higher level I mentioned, where all insects are Insecta? THAT is analogous to the idea that all the various words that equal 93 are telling us about the number 93, NOT the other way around. Just like the various 6-legged creatures are all informing us about what the Class of Insecta signifies.

As for apophenia, I have no doubt it exists. But not all gematria is plagued with such a condition, and the practice of numerical qabalah does not have to partake in it. In the wider world, there are plenty of scientists who employ experimental bias to prove their pet theories. Are we to dismiss the scientific method because of them, or should we keep the baby and dispose of the dirty water only? Your critique is correct in certain particulars, but I think it is stretching the limits of your premises when you conclude that gematria is complete folly. It certainly can be, but it is not necessarily always so. As the Greeks said - everything in moderation. But in addition to that, I believe gematria is both an art and a science; and frankly, some artists are just more interesting and compelling than others. Some have a novel message to convey, while others do not. Some have better technique, and some do not. and that brings us into the realm of aesthetics, where anything goes. De gustibus est non disputandum

Litlluw
RLG

P.S. It is the case, surely by chance alone, that the acronym/notarikon of DWTW + LITLLUW = 93.

(@los)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2195
05/06/2014 7:12 pm
"threefold31" wrote:
It is the case, surely by chance alone, that the acronym/notarikon of DWTW + LITLLUW = 93.

Of course it’s chance alone. You pulled out the one way of writing it that adds up to 93. I’ll bet “Do what thou wilt Love is the law” doesn’t add up to 93, and I’ll bet “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law Love is the law” doesn’t, and I’ll bet “Do what thou wilt Love is the law love under will” doesn’t, and I’ll bet “Dwtw Love is the law” doesn’t, etc., etc., etc.

There are dozens of ways of writing it that don’t add up to 93. The fact that you can keep at it until you find a way that does add up to 93 is utterly unimpressive.

As a serious question, if you think this stuff is so compelling – if you think that these number games are actual evidence of something supernatural going on – why do you think that practically nobody on the planet is convinced by them?

Where can I go to read about the scores of professional cryptographists who were skeptical of the supernatural until they read some “proofs” of Liber AL and are now supernaturalist Thelemites? I don’t think I can go anywhere to read about them because they don’t exist. But if this stuff were as compelling as you seem to think it is, why don't lots of them exist?

(@threefold31)
Member
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Posts: 415
06/06/2014 8:39 am
"Los" wrote:
"threefold31" wrote:
It is the case, surely by chance alone, that the acronym/notarikon of DWTW + LITLLUW = 93.

Of course it’s chance alone. You pulled out the one way of writing it that adds up to 93. I’ll bet “Do what thou wilt Love is the law” doesn’t add up to 93, and I’ll bet “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law Love is the law” doesn’t, and I’ll bet “Do what thou wilt Love is the law love under will” doesn’t, and I’ll bet “Dwtw Love is the law” doesn’t, etc., etc., etc.

There are dozens of ways of writing it that don’t add up to 93. The fact that you can keep at it until you find a way that does add up to 93 is utterly unimpressive.

Dwtw

Dude, you ought to lighten up. Do you seriously need an emoticon to detect irony? Of course it's by chance! And I picked that particular signature precisely BECAUSE it adds to 93, and other variations don't.  Duh. You don't grab a hammer to sweep the floor.

As I asked of you last time, do you have something to add to the original topic? Because your endless quest to quash the supernatural is not only off topic, but bored me to death a long time ago. This thread is not about the supernatural, or 'proofs' thereof. Not every conversation revolves around your favorite hot-button issue.

Here's an idea - why don't you contribute to the actual topic of the thread? Is it because you don't know what you're talking about?

You have so many loaded questions - here's one for you: How many possible totals for the entire Book of the Law can one generate using different serial (1-26) English gematria systems?

Litlluw
R

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 439
06/06/2014 12:41 pm
"Wei Ching-Hsing" wrote:
To clarify my viewpoint then, I firmly believe that gematria is total folly.
It has never yielded a single insight worthy of note that is not due entirely to chance.

Your claim is impossible to substantiate for a number of reasons, starting with the subjective definitions of 'worth' and 'insight'. While I agree that many gematria equations that are touted as significant are easily dismissed as random occurrences, the potential of gematria as tool for encrypting secrets within a text is not so easily dismissed.

Years ago I experimented with writing software routines that create gematria systems programmed to produce specified results; the point was to see if a superhuman or extra-human being could do the same, which is often the implied origin of gematria systems deemed significant to Liber L. My conclusion was yes, it is possible, but requires the use of an alphanumeric system flexible enough to be programmed; the only values that perform well enough to be programmed in an English gematria system are the values 1-26, or a similar value range.

It is cherry picking of the most egregious variety. Anything that does not fit the pattern the gematrifier is looking to express is unceremoniously ignored. This ignored data constitutes the vast majority of material.

Even in designer gematria systems there are random correlations between words with common numeric values; that fact in itself should not disqualify the possibility that one or more gematria systems were used to encode secrets within Liber L; the real test of such systems is how they interact with the verses of the book.

If we aspire to a system that holds dear the method of science with the aim of religion, yet engage in a technique that ignores any data that fails to fit with our preconceived notions then this is a most lamentable state of affairs.

Dismissing the potential of gematria altogether as you have is also a lamentable preconception.

This is true from our most beloved 93 down to the “…but one cometh after him…Key of it all…” messianic pretensions.

The choice to explore Liber L and see its potential fulfilled need not be the task of a Messiah: this perspective appears to be yet another preconception on your part.

Isn’t it cute that Thelema = Agape. Find me the word Agape in Liber Legis. If we admit that a subtle harmony exists in Koine Greek between will and love (and agape is certainly not a word suitable in any way to the concept of love in Liber Legis) then we must also posit that the word “blix” in Greek, which also enumerates to 93 must also partake of this harmony. Unfortunately “blix” means idiot, fool and also implies the notion of erectile dysfunction.

Goose. Gander. You can’t cherry pick.

The connecting factor between the Greek words ThELHMA and AGAPE is the common enumeration 93: there's nothing subtle about it. The subtle correlation between the two words is found in the sentence, 'Love is the law, love under will,' in which both love and will are linked ideologically by the author of the verse, creating a correlation that parallels the numeric link between the two Greek words.

A similar example can be demonstrated using my preferred English gematria system, one that is derived from the counts of letters in the Book of the Law. We know that ThELHMA enumerates as 93 using Greek gematria, and is described by the author of verse I:39 as consisting of the 'word of the law'; WORD OF THE LAW enumerates as 93 using English gematria, demonstrating both an ideological and numeric link between the phrase and the word ThELHMA. Although simple, the last example is the type of clever correlation I would expect from a divine entity.

To suggest that there is a secret code in the enumeration of letters of various ancient or modern languages whereby an innate sympathy or subtle harmony exists between two concepts by virtue of their value in purely arbitrary numeric value is not only preposterous, it is technically a psychotic condition, called as I mentioned in my first post, apophenia.

I agree in regard to traditional dogmatic applications of gematria, but that has no bearing on whether or not the Book of the Law contains secrets  encrypted using gematria. The author of Liber L makes numerous overt references to gematria, claims there are secrets in hidden in the letters in multiple languages, and directs the creation of an English gematria system with corresponding symbols. In criticizing efforts to analyze Liber L with gematria, you have conveniently ignored the stated facts, so I ask you now, who is really doing the cherry picking?

Let us not forget that Liber Legis quotes from other key renaissance texts verbatim.

That fact has no bearing whatsoever on the authenticity of Liber L, or the qualities of its author other than to demonstrate he is well-read.

If a certain book suggests that the failure to square the circle is in itself a key, then I find this reasonably significant.

Significant of what?

Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
07/06/2014 8:47 pm

I read a lot of 'solutions' from the internet on the Liber Al 'riddle' and none was convincing to me. None. It was math and stuff, but I couldn't see how the 'solution' would have any effect on the contents of Liber Al at all.

My 5 cents:

- I think the secret could be in the forms of the letters in the original handwriting
- The solution would be clear to anyone: no gematria, no weird stuff, as in a picture puzzle
- The guy who solved it would then be recognized by all as a true master

But that's only my opinion. You know, opinions are like a*holes -. everyone has one 🙂

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 415
09/06/2014 9:53 am

Dwtw,

In light of the discussions above about the relation of the Cipher to the Greek alphabet, first indicated by the prominence of the number 24, it is instructive to note a certain fact about the Cipher in context.

The 28 glyphs occur on the 42nd page of the holograph. On this page are the verse numbers 73, 74, 75, 76, as well as the page number 20. The sum of these five numbers is 318. In the Greek isopsephia, 318 is the value of the letter-name THETA. Of course the letter Theta itself has the value of 9.

Now in my original post, I had shown how the Cipher can be used to calculate the entire contents of Liber CCXX by multiplying the numbers (143) by the letters (208) by the 24th letter (9). This 24th letter is T, (which = 9 in the TEG).

But the 9 that is needed to complete this multiplication is also indicated by the numbers on the page that are outside of the Cipher, which sum to 318, which is the word Theta, which is the letter that equals 9.

Now for those who will complain that these extraneous numbers have nothing to do with the Cipher, let me point out another salient fact. When we combine these ‘extra’ numbers with those that actually appear in the Cipher, we get a curious result: 318 + 143 = 461. This number 461 does not seem at all interesting, except for the fact that it is the 89th prime number. And of course 89 is the most enigmatic figure that appears in the Cipher. 89 itself is the 24th prime. So in a sense we can get from 461 to 24 in two steps, once again showing that the number 24 is integral to the Cipher.

As for the extra numbers that equal 318, and thus Theta, and thus 9; if we look at the 9th glyph of the Cipher, it turns out to be the numeral 4. This number has the property that 4! = 24; that is, 4 factorial = 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 = 24. Once again we arrive at our key number.

I think all of the above facts show conclusively that it is valid to consider the other numbers written on the page when considering the Cipher in context. And in terms of the Greek interpretation I speculated about earlier, it is useful to keep in mind that the letter Theta is the Greek counterpart to the Hebrew letter Teth, which of course is attributed to the sign of Leo and the Lust card, which shows the Scarlet Beast, whose name in Greek is THERION KOKKINON, which is 557 - the sum of the numbers in the full equation that appears in my first post as part of the solution to the Cipher.

So let’s take this a little further, and add the definite article to get The Scarlet Beast, TO THERION KOKKINON. The value of this is 370 + 557 = 927. Now dig this.

Adding the extra numbers got us to the 89th prime, so what if ALL the numbers in the Cipher are considered ordinal primes?

4th prime = 7
6th prime = 13
3rd prime = 5
8th prime = 19
2nd prime = 3
4th prime = 7
3rd prime = 5
24th prime = 89
89th prime = 461
total of primes = 609 (= ASTHR in Greek = Star)
verse & page numbers = 318 (= HLIOS in Greek = Sun)
sum of all = 609 + 318 = 927 = TO THERION KOKKINON.

{Not only is 927 equal to 3 x 309, where 309 is the famous Shin-Tet/XXXI section of the LAShTAL formula, (and therefore 927 secretly equals 93), but in a nod to myself, I was born at 9:27 am, and given the birth name Leo. This identifies me with The Scarlet Beast.}

For the numbers on the page we have 927 = TO THERION KOKKINON = The Scarlet Beast.
For the letters of the top row of the Cipher we have 667 = H KOKKINH GYNE = The Scarlet Woman.
For the letters of the bottom row of the Cipher we have 871 = XAOS = the Groom of Babalon, the Scarlet Woman, the Mother of Abominations.

Thus, the Unholy Trinity specified in Liber Cheth verse 1 can all be identified on the Cipher page of II:76.

But I can already hear the complaints - why are the Cipher numbers prime but the ‘extra’ numbers are not? Well, because they’re in the Cipher, and hidden, while the others are not coded the same way. Or are they? Let’s swap the roles and see what happens. We’ll use the ‘extra’ numbers as primes, and leave the Cipher numbers alone this time.

20th prime = 71
73rd prime = 367
74th prime = 373
75th prime = 379
76th prime = 383
sum of all = 1573 = 11 x 143
sum of Cipher #s = 143
total sum = 1716 = ThRONON TOU ThERIOU = Throne of the Beast

Instead of getting 'The Scarlet Beast', with this method we get 'Throne of the Beast', which is a multiple of 143 to boot. Either way you slice it, you end up with a reference to the Beast, and in turn, the Unholy Trinity of Liber Cheth vel Vallum Abiegni.

So perhaps Crowley was right after all when he claimed this was a test of anyone claiming to be his magical ‘heir’. Because this person would be the heir to the Throne of the Beast.

This completes my expounding of a Greek qabalah analysis of the Cipher.

Litlluw
RLG

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 415
12/06/2014 9:07 am

Dwtw

I am putting together a survey of the various 'solutions' to verse II:76, and so far I have the following list. If anyone can clarify dates with question marks, or provide me with links to any solutions I have missed, please let me know, either by PM or in this thread.

New Aeon English Caballa solution
David Allen Hulse’s solution
Frater Keallach’s solution (G.M.Kelly) ca. 1983?
Gerald Suster’s solution
Frater Osman’s solution -- ca.1989?
Frater Sadashtor 645’s solution - Summer solstice 1990?
Michael Aquino’s solution - ca. 1990?
Aleisterion’s solution -- 1990 & 2010?
Fr. RVS’ solution (ca. late 80s?)
George T. Mortimer’s solution
Fr Zoel Dana Kaim/Chaim’s solution - ca. 1994?
Fra.Perseverando (Shane Clayton)’s solution
Wizardiaoan’s Solution (Walt DeLong)
Timothy Moss’s solution - The Glad Word
Fra. Seb-Ra’s solution
Fra. Hoor - D’s solution
Fra. Sabaechit (Ron Adams)’s solution - ca. early 2000s?
Fr. Omnia Redementur (John Farthing)’s solution
Fr. RIKB’s solution
Fra. N’s solution
Timothy Moss’s solution - The Judgment Key
Timothy Moss’s solution - The Tahuti Key - ca. 2009?
Alrah’s solution
Dr. Robert Stein's solution - 2012? (certainly earlier)

Litlluw
RLG

(@jamie-barter)
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Posts: 1688
12/06/2014 12:46 pm
"threefold31" wrote:
I am putting together a survey of the various 'solutions' to verse II:76, and so far I have the following list. If anyone can clarify dates with question marks, or provide me with links to any solutions I have missed, please let me know, either by PM or in this thread.

Was it Wei Ching-Hsing who first proposed that there is no solution apart from possibly “Nothing”?  Or did someone else come up with something similar here on Lashtal first?

Reply #10 by Wei Ching-Hsing on: May 21, 2014, 01:50:47 pm:

The “secret key”, as the good book reminds us, is that there is no secret key.
“Nothing is a secret key of this law.”

Incidentally, on the list Gerald Suster came up with his solution – “Teth” or 419 (= 418 +1) – in 1988.  Alexander Duncan of Canada came up with one too, I believe.  (And I came up with my “ Cipher for Liber AL: I:20" – which is 'Reveal' or 'REVE-AL', for the curious – in 1993.  Any more for any more?! 😀 )

Roll up, Roll up! ;D
Norma N Joy Conquest

(@belmurru)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1000
12/06/2014 4:45 pm

Note that Aiwass says "expound it" not "solve it". A solution impiles a puzzle or riddle, or even an equation; an exposition is a detailed explanation.

It seems to me it is a symbolic statement, like a sentence in conventional symbols (it ends in a full stop or period - it was like a "sentence" to Crowley). Even though the idea that it is a cipher or a riddle seems to originate with Crowley, I don't think it has a solution per se. Interpretations are possible, translations if you like, but not a puzzle with a "key". You don't solve Latin into English, you translate it. Similarly with this Qabalistic number-letter play.

(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3951
12/06/2014 8:53 pm

Interesting point, belmurru.

(@threefold31)
Member
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Posts: 415
13/06/2014 5:11 am
"jamie barter" wrote:
Was it Wei Ching-Hsing who first proposed that there is no solution apart from possibly “Nothing”?  Or did someone else come up with something similar here on Lashtal first?

Incidentally, on the list Gerald Suster came up with his solution – “Teth” or 419 (= 418 +1) – in 1988.  Alexander Duncan of Canada came up with one too, I believe.  (And I came up with my “ Cipher for Liber AL: I:20" – which is 'Reveal' or 'REVE-AL', for the curious – in 1993.  Any more for any more?! 😀 )

Dwtw

Thanks Jamie, I had Spring 1989 for Suster's solution, but I trust you have better information in his case. I had forgotten about Duncan, he wrote a few pieces on Thelema, i will look into that.

Litlluw
RLG

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 415
13/06/2014 6:28 am
"belmurru" wrote:
Note that Aiwass says "expound it" not "solve it". A solution impiles a puzzle or riddle, or even an equation; an exposition is a detailed explanation.

It seems to me it is a symbolic statement, like a sentence in conventional symbols (it ends in a full stop or period - it was like a "sentence" to Crowley). Even though the idea that it is a cipher or a riddle seems to originate with Crowley, I don't think it has a solution per se. Interpretations are possible, translations if you like, but not a puzzle with a "key". You don't solve Latin into English, you translate it. Similarly with this Qabalistic number-letter play.

Dwtw

I see what you're getting at Belmurru, and I agree to some extent. This is partly why I refer to the string of glyphs as the Cipher, while some prefer calling it the Riddle or the Puzzle. To me it is a Cipher because it is not a sentence in plaintext, English or otherwise. OTOH, the one case where the word 'expound' is used in the KJV, is in Judges 14:14 (interesting pair of numbers, that!), and it refers to a riddle:

"And he (Samson) said unto them, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. And they could not in three days expound the riddle."

The Hebrew for riddle is ChIDH, which equals 27; it appears 9 times in the Bible - once in Ezekiel, and in eight straight verses in Judges, from 14:12 - 14:19, each time translated as 'riddle'. The sequence refers to the riddle posed by Samson, the answer to which is the famous 'what is sweeter than honey, and what is stronger than a lion?" That notwithstanding, the word you've brought up is 'expound', and it appears only once in the KJV, as the translation for the Hebrew LHGID, from the root NGD, which is Strong's 5046 -

nagad {naw-gad'} a primitive root; tell, declare, shew, utter, shew forth, expound , messenger, etc.

It probably has nothing to do with AL II:76, but the term used in Judges for 'expound the riddle' is LHGID HChIDH, which is 52 + 32 = 84 by gematria. So does the 'expound' of II:76 have something to do with the number 52? Maybe by coincidence. But I mention this only to show that at least to some translators, it is possible to 'expound a riddle', which in the case of Samson's men, simply means that they found the answer.

I do expect that whoever figures out what this set of glyphs means will not only 'solve' it, but also expound it, in the sense of providing a lengthy exposition such as you suggest. And if it is basically a substitution cipher, then solving it will simply mean that they will uncover the plaintext, i.e., translate it, exactly as you suggest. So it may be that we are using similar concepts, but different terms for them.

Incidentally, the word 'expound' is the 24th occurrence in Liber AL of the 24 letter of the English Alphabet. Now what was I saying about the number 24 and the Cipher…?

In the TEG, the word EXPOUND = 105; this is the sum of 1-14, which suggests that the 28 glyphs of the Cipher be split into two halves of 14 glyphs each, or into 14 sets of pairs, to effect the 'expound-ing' of it.

As I noted years ago, if you simply take the first half of 14 glyphs, (4, 6, 3…O) by the TEG they equal 117. The second half of 14 glyphs (R, 3, Y…L) equal 234. Not only is 234 double the value of 117, but in the trinary system, using hexagrams, they are opposites, or 'anti grams', because 117 = 011100 and 234 = 022200.

So just the most basic division of the Cipher leads to an example of the 0=2 formula, by way of Trigrammaton; and it resonates with the cabalistic meaning of 'expound'. Of course there are other ways to get two sets of 14 glyphs out of this sequence, but I won't go into that now.

Litlluw
RLG

PS - the answer to the metaphorical question is that nothing is sweeter than honey, and nothing is stronger than a lion.

(@jamie-barter)
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Posts: 1688
13/06/2014 12:38 pm

You are quite right, as usual Belmurru.  I am perhaps guilty of lazy exposition myself with solution there – I should (at the least) have put quote marks around solution, as threefolf31 did do.  Writing that everyone else has become accustomed to using the word ‘solution’ and ‘riddle’ in connection with this verse is no excuse.  (Possibly the same argument could apply with ‘Cipher’?)  How about if we say Aiwass really meant “he shall expound the solution” – would that be an acceptable halfway house?!

While we’re on the subject (of precision), the verse is preceeded by “Listen” to the numbers and the words” (II:75).  At first glance, there are numbers but no words there, only letters.  In Hebrew, one can consider a letter to also be a word (for example, the letter “Aleph” [value, 1] consists of the word ALP [value, 111]).  But as far as I’m aware, this doesn’t apply in English (- or does it?  Maybe someone will oblige with an exposition?)

“Listen” requires the use of the auditory sense of hearing, not the visual one of seeing.  Perhaps we are all on the wrong track and the ‘solution’ (sorry there!) is to do with how this sentence sounds, rather than how it looks.  (Maybe the title of this thread should be, ‘Another listen at the Cipher…’!)  Presumably the accent should be a neutral English, rather than any pronounced dialect such as a raucous Cockernee or Highland burr – but “(Och) Aye”, again – who knows?!

"threefold31" wrote:
Thanks Jamie, I had Spring 1989 for Suster's solution, but I trust you have better information in his case.

I think he publicised it around Spring 1989, but I seem to recall his coming upon it in the course of his ‘magical retirement’ to Cyprus (or just afterwards) during 1988, & although Iam not 100% on that will let you know if I discover any differently.

Interesting that out of the list of (so far) twenty-eight names there seems to be not one laydee present – is it simply because of “he” shall expound it?  A bit “sexist” or possibly misogynistic, some would declare – but what of the brainy soror who is girt with a skirt and a sword?

In terms of “the list” (“Ach so, your name vill also go on zer list!...”) there is also my old fellow frater from “the company of heaven” George T. Mortimer’s exposition (I cannot this second think of his given magical name), which in some respects follows on from Gerald Suster’s (Frater Uranus).  From what I can recall without going to look it up it involves Tau=400, but as I know he is a fellow Lashtalian I will leave it up to him to furnish further information if he wills.  I think it came from 1989 though.

Also although I could possibly fill in a couple of more entries it wold be good sense if some more Lashtalians overcame their habitual lethargy and made an effort to contribute for a change rather than my (seemingly) having to do more than my share of the work – believe me, I was/am not the sort of swot who was always sticking their hand up with the answer in class!  It’s only my love of this beautiful system we share (Thelema) and respect for & desire to assist my fellow Lashtalians which goads me on to participate.

Och, so are ye listening there then, Jimmy?
N Joy

Anonymous
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13/06/2014 12:54 pm

too intellectual. I'm still of the opinion that this 'riddle' (as in I don't understand) should be solved easily without math, gematria or OTHER TOOLS. There is no mention that this was a code. It isn't i think. Someone has to explain it and that someone is possibly THE HEIR OF THE BEAST. or not.

(@jamie-barter)
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Posts: 1688
13/06/2014 1:56 pm
"princediamond" wrote:
too intellectual. I'm still of the opinion that this 'riddle' (as in I don't understand) should be solved easily

"There is a word to say about the Hierophantic task. Behold! there are three ordeals in one, and it may be given in three ways. The gross must pass through fire; let the fine be tried in intellect, and the lofty chosen ones in the highest. Thus ye have star & star, system & system; let not one know well the other! [Liber AL I:50]

"princediamond" wrote:
There is no mention that this was a code. It isn't i think. Someone has to explain it and that someone is possibly THE HEIR OF THE BEAST. or not.

Luckily it won't be the “The HAIR of the Beast”, otherwise it’d come across as a pretty bald showing (- Ha! ;D  )

"Sorry!",
[sup:1svgkm99]'N[/sup:1svgkm99] Joy

(@jdes)
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Posts: 61
13/06/2014 3:17 pm

Here's my take (act of pestilence) on this…

Each man is a prophet to his own god.

I take the 'words' and 'numbers' (AL II v76) to be a variable, to stand in as a meaningless (to anyone else) name or glyph to act as a container to house the nature of the prophet's True Will/true nature. But also the prophet's own qabalah, unique to himself.

There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it (HadIT or the NOT or the Word)

That is the HGA. The HGA is to be relied upon solely.

Why follow?

"Liber LXV:25. Thou wast long seeking Me; thou didst run forward so
fast that I was unable to come up with thee."

"Liber LXV: 42. O Holy Exalted One, O Self beyond self, O Self-
Luminous Image of the Unimaginable Naught, O my
darling, my beautiful, come Thou forth and follow me."

The sense is that one should pacify oneself to the HGA. This is outlined in the previous verse:

AL II.75:  Aye! listen to the numbers & the words.

Listening implies pacifying/reflection. That is reflection on the personnel qabalah that the prophet has constructed in the Practicus grade.

The prophet here is in the Philosophus grade about to reflect on the qabalah ('words' and 'numbers') constructed.

Note in the previous verse 74:

AL II.74:  "The length of thy longing shall be the strength of its glory.  He that lives long & desires death much is ever the King among the Kings."

The longing is the act of devotion/reflection practised in Netzach (4=7) Note Chesed [Mercy - but also glory as in 'power and glory'] influences Netzach. The Death desired is the path that leads to Tiphareth.

The verse AL II.75 continues then encourages the prophet to endure until he stands in Chokmah and can tell men his Word.

So…

4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L represents (for me) the Word / True Will of each individual. It is nonsensical (can not be known) to anyone but the individual.

Perhaps, the corollary of this observation is that each suggested solution forms part of each individual's own qabalah.

AL I.56:  "Expect him not from the East, nor from the West; for from no expected house cometh that child.  Aum!  All words are sacred and all prophets true; save only that they understand a little; solve the first half of the equation, leave the second unattacked.  But thou hast all in the clear light, and some, though not all, in the dark."

East is Tipareth, West is Yesod. House is Beth -> Mercury (child) -> Hod (Practicus forms own qabalah). Then as Practicus reflects ('leave the second unattacked') - the Angel expounds.

(@jdes)
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13/06/2014 3:21 pm

Sorry, I should have said...

Then the Philosophus reflects ('leave the second unattacked') - the Angel expounds.

(@azidonis)
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Posts: 2964
14/06/2014 4:41 am
"threefold31" wrote:
"And he (Samson) said unto them, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. And they could not in three days expound the riddle."

The sequence refers to the riddle posed by Samson, the answer to which is the famous 'what is sweeter than honey, and what is stronger than a lion?"

I do expect that whoever figures out what this set of glyphs means will not only 'solve' it, but also expound it, in the sense of providing a lengthy exposition such as you suggest. And if it is basically a substitution cipher, then solving it will simply mean that they will uncover the plaintext, i.e., translate it, exactly as you suggest. So it may be that we are using similar concepts, but different terms for them.

PS - the answer to the metaphorical question is that nothing is sweeter than honey, and nothing is stronger than a lion.

It wasn't until I got to the bottom of editing that I saw the post-script, but I intended to remark "a hole".

"threefold31" wrote:
So just the most basic division of the Cipher leads to an example of the 0=2 formula, by way of Trigrammaton;

It's all about N.O.X., or at least a type of atlas, or an attempt at providing one, attracting many different approaches (and resulting Qabalahs and 'Qabalahs', both real and imaginary) towards trying to understand what it is saying, as though nothing could actually speak.

Nothing is 81 in the TQ, and has its own interesting properties.

I suppose nothing could be likened (albeit falsely) to 'nothingness without twinkles'.

(@threefold31)
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Posts: 415
14/06/2014 6:18 am

Dwtw

It’s Friday the 13th and a Full Moon. Hasn’t happened in 14 years, and won’t happen again until 2049. I may not see that one, so today is a very special Dies Veneris.

Although I said that I was done with the Greek analysis, something that NewNeuberg said earlier in the thread struck a chord and so I delved into it again and came up with a different approach. Whereas the previous foray was considered suggestive of the possibilities in the Cipher, the folowing appears to be more of a valid solution.

The extra numbers on the Cipher page total 318, whose two most important Greek equivalents are Helios, the Sun and the letter-name Theta. I think this is a big clue to a solution that includes both a reference to the Sun god, and the use of letter-names in the Cipher proper.

There are 5 references to the number 24 in the Cipher: 4 x 6, 3 x 8, 2 x 4 x 3, 24, and 89 as the 24th prime. As N. mentioned, 5 x 24 = 120, so consider that number. 120 is a triangular number, the sum of 1-15. This makes it the ‘mystic number’ of the 15th Greek letter, which is Omicron. 120 is also the gematria value of the Greek word ON, a philosophical term which means ‘Being’, (hence our word Ontology).

Looking at the holograph again, I thought that the letter Y at the end of the first row is drawn sort of funny, and could also be a lower-case Gamma, rather than an Upsilon. Also the S-T combination could be valued as a Stigma = 6, the way Crowley uses it in the word Stele to make the name ‘Stele 666’ = 718. And the ‘V’ shaped letter could be a lower-case Nu, as mentioned previously.

As such, the entire top row and the letter X that starts the bottom row equals:

Alpha-Beta-Kappa-Alpha-Lambda-Gamma-Mu-Omicron-Rho-Gamma-Xi = 330.
The numbers 4, 6, 3, 8, 2, 4, 3 = 30.
Summing these together, the first 18 glyphs equal 330 + 30 = 360.
360 = the value of the letter-name Omicron.

The remaining ten glyphs are:
24 + 89 = 113
Rho-Pi-Stigma-Omicron-Nu-Alpha-Lambda = 337
Summing these together, the last 10 glyphs equal 113 +337 = 450.
450 = the value of the letter name Nu.

The two sections of the Cipher therefore indicate the letters Omicron-Nu, spelling the word ON.

Considering just the 19 letters, the sum is 667 = H KOKKINH GYNE = The Scarlet Woman.

The word ON was the Greek word used for the name of the ancient Egyptian city they later called Heliopolis. Note how the cipher and the extra numbers relate to this: the cipher produce ON, while the other numbers on the page equal 318 = Helios.

In Crowley’s Sepher Sephiroth, ON is considered the name of a God, so that the word Babalon means ‘Gate of the God ON’. Crowley mentions this in the footnotes to Aethyr 12 in the Vision and The Voice, showing Bab = Gate, Al= God, On = ON. In the Greek Qabalah, the letters O-N would be attributed to Mars and Virgo.

We see that the two sets of letters equal = 667 = The Scarlet Woman. This is appropriate, since she is the avatar of Babalon, and thus in turn she is also the gate of the god ON. Considering that the previous Greek analysis derived this same number from the top row letters only, this is a significant result.

Considered separately, the sum of the letters, 330 and 337, have two important equivalents in Greek:

337 = EKDELOS = manifest
330 = PAThOS = passionate lust

G 1552: εκδηλος ekdelos manifest, evident, clear, conspicuous

G 3806: παθος pathos - inordinate affection, affection, lust; etc. etc.

The obvious message here is that 667 = The Scarlet Woman - is to ‘manifest passionate lust’ = 667, as clearly shown on the Lust card of the tarot.

They remaining glyphs of the cipher are all numbers whose sum is 143:

143 = AGAPHN = Love

This is of course a version of the famous word Agape, but note that the letter Nu is appended to the end. This is explained later in verse II:76, where Hadit exhorts the chosen one “to be me; to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven”. This refers to the word for love, with the letter Nu at the end. This idea is reinforced by the fact that the term Agapen is used in the Greek NT to indicate ‘the love of god’, (cf. Luke 11:42 - Agapen tou Theou). As Thelemites, we substitute the phrase ‘the love of Nu’. Keep in mind this is not the love we have for Nu, but the love Nu possesses for us (cf. AL I:63).

Thus the sum total of all the glyphs is 810. This has two important equivalences:
810 = PARAKLETOS = Encourager = name for the Holy Spirit
810 = KUPRIS = Love, passion  = a name for Aphrodite

With the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, the usual symbol is of a dove, which in turn is also a symbol of Venus. The term Kupris not only refers to love or passion, but can also refer metaphorically to a beautiful maiden, a ‘Venus’. And of course Aphrodite is the Greek Venus. The name Kupris comes from the island of Cyprus, named for its major copper deposits, and copper is the alchemical metal of Venus.

The overall import here is that while in particular the Scarlet Woman is practicing the love of the (lion-) Serpent as she ‘manifests passionate lust’ riding on the Beast, the love of the Dove is also symbolized. So we have Mars and Virgo for the letters Omicron and Nu, while we have Venus for the whole Cipher. Mars and Venus represent the two kinds of love (Agapen) mentioned in AL I:57, while Virgo is The Scarlet Woman.

Note that the  Greek name for the sign Virgo is ‘Parthenos’, a famous epithet of Athena. Incidentally, in Ionic Greek the name AThHNH = 76 = the number of the verse containing the Cipher.

The verse number 76 precedes the first row of glyphs. In this row are 10 letters whose value in Serial Greek gematria is 76, the same as the verse number.

Meanwhile, the nine letters in the bottom row, by Serial Gematria, add to 93, the value of THELEMA.

Thus, the sum of all the letters used in the Cipher is 667 by Alexandrian isopsephy; and by Serial Greek gematria, is 169 = 13 x 13. This gives us an important philosophical word in Greek:

169 = NOHMA = Mind, thought, understanding

Therefore, the Serial Greek values of the Cipher relates to the supernal Triad of the Tree of Life -

Keter is also called Ratzon = Will / 93;
Chokmah is Wisdom = Athena / 76,
Binah = Understanding = Noema / 169.

What is interesting here is that Noema used to mean speech that is obscure and requires considered reflection in order to understand. Much like the Cipher itself. Then in the past century, Husserl got hold of it and it became a keystone of phenomenology.

Together, the sum of the standard and serial Greek values of the 19 letters is 667 + 169 = 836 = 2 x 418.
We can then get the grand total by adding in the numbers: 667 + 143 + 169 = 979.  What is intriguing is that this overall total equals 11 x 89.

11 and 89 are the 5th prime and the 24th prime, and 5 x 24 = 120. This is where we began, and is the value of the word ON.

In summary, the message of the Cipher is hidden in Greek terms, which might be ‘translated’ in various ways. One possibility is this:

The Being of The Scarlet Woman Manifests Passionate Lust & Love, with Will, Wisdom and Understanding.

Of course, what exegesis would be complete without finding a name in the Cipher?

The contents of the Cipher = 810, and the extra numbers on the page = 318. My given name comes from the Greek for Lion, so I am entitled to spell it in Greek. My middle name at birth is also derived from Greek, with the first initial Iota. To remain consistent, my surname will also be spelled in Greek:

Lambda Epsilon Omega - Iota - Gamma Iota Lambda Lambda Iota Sigma =

835 + 10 + 283 = 1128 = 810 + 318.

Thus the Cipher and all the numbers on the page are equivalent to my name at birth, spelled in Greek letters.

As to the so-called ‘glad word’, this is an ambiguous term. Is it supposed to be found in the Cipher necessarily? Many qabalists think so, but I do not share that opinion. If it is involved, then I suspect that the glad word is Love, but it might well be ON. Or else the answer is NO.

Litlluw
RLG

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 415
15/06/2014 8:29 am

Dwtw

Here's a more straightforward breakdown:

Translation to Greek characters:

4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 a L G M O R 3 Y
X  24 89 R P S T O V A L.  =

4 6 3 8 Α Β Κ 2 4 α Λ Γ Μ Ο Ρ 3 γ
Ξ  24 89 Ρ Π Ϛ Ο ν Α Λ

Splitting up glyphs to equal Greek letter-names:

4 6 3 8 Α Β Κ 2 4 Α Λ Γ Μ Ο Ρ 3 γ Ξ  = 360 = Oμικρον = O
24 89 Ρ Π Ϛ Ο ν Α Λ = 450 = Νυ = N
ΟΝ = Being;
ΟΝ = name of the sun god, and of Heliopolis

360 = Ραθοσ = Pathos - passionate lust (letter of Mars)
450 = Κοσμον = Kosmon - World, universe, earth (letter of Virgo)

Removing the numbers from the above.

Α Β Κ Α Λ Γ Μ Ο Ρ γ Ξ  = 330 = ΙΣΟΝ = Equal
Ρ Π Ϛ Ο ν Α Λ = 337 = ΕΚΔΗΛΟΣ = Manifest

Using the numerals only:

4 6 3 8 2 4 3 24 89 = 143 = ΑΓΑΠΗΝ = Love

Using the letters only:

Α Β Κ  Α Λ Γ Μ Ο Ρ  γ Ξ  Ρ Π Ϛ Ο ν Α Λ = 667 =  Η Κ Ο Κ Κ Ι Ν Η  Γ Υ Ν Η = The Scarlet Woman

Using Alexandrian Greek values for the top and bottom row letters:

Α Β Κ Α Λ Γ Μ Ο Ρ γ  = 270 = ΜΑΓΕΙΑΙΣ = Magic, sorceries
Ξ  Ρ Π Ϛ Ο ν Α Λ = 397 = ΓΟΗΤΕΙΑ = Goetia,magic

Using Serial Greek values for the top and bottom row letters:

Α Β Κ Α Λ Γ Μ Ο Ρ γ  = 76 = ΑΘΗΝΗ = Athena, goddess of Wisdom (Chokmah)
Ξ  Ρ Π Ϛ Ο ν Α Λ = 93 = ΘΕΛΗΜΑ = Will (Keter)
The sum is 169 = ΝΟΗΜΑ = Understanding (Binah)

Splitting up the glyphs to divide 810 into two Antigrams:

4 6 3 8 Α Β Κ 2 4 Α Λ Γ Μ Ο Ρ 3  = 297 = 102000
γ  Ξ  24 89 Ρ Π Ϛ Ο ν Α Λ = 513 = 201000

There is a mistake in my previous post - the word Pathos is actually 360, not 330. In my haste to copy and paste, I neglected to fix this error. Actually Pathos is equivalent to Omicron, also 360. This seems appropriate, since Omicron is the letter of Mars, which suits the idea of 'passionate lust'. Thus to 'manifest passionate lust' as I used it before would actually use all the letters, and the numbers of the top row of glyphs, while leaving out the 24 and 89. This does not make a significant difference to the analysis. In place of Pathos is the word Ison (330), meaning Equal. Other suitable words may be discovered as well, such as Anthos.

I also thought to simply divide the letters into the top and bottom rows, thus arriving at the words Mageiais and Goeteia, both words relating to Magic. Since these are the pair that combine to equal the name of The Scarlet Woman, she must be said to partake of their 'magical' influence.

Since this is not a simple translation of the glyphs in sequence, there are many ways to integrate the various words. I might amend the previous sentence to read:

The Being and Magic of The Scarlet Woman Manifests the Equality of Love and Will, Wisdom and Understanding.

Many other arrangements might work as well. I think the main thing is the word ON, with everything else being an extrapolation and commentary.

I also note that 810 is the sum of only two pairs of antigrams in the TQ system; one of these is found by a simple division of the order of the glyphs, being 297 and 513. These are the 11 and 19 trigrams above, the Zero trigrams below. Their difference-value, unique to this pair of antigrams, is 216 = 9 x 24. This is intriguing since 9 = Theta, whose name is found in the 'extra' numbers on the cipher page, while 24 appears so prominently in the cipher.

I don’t believe this is ‘the’ solution to this cryptogram, not by a long shot. But this is about as far as you can go using Greek transliteration for the letters. In my survey of works, I noticed that only G. M. Kelly had given a Greek interpretation of the glyphs, so I thought it might be interesting to see how much further one can take it. At least his version gives you a reason for the actual sequence, whereas the solution above does not, at least not conclusively. There are a lot of cool ideas in here, but with all the various possibilities for equivalents, whose choice must always be subjective, I’m not sure this has the conviction necessary. And it may even be cheating, or at least inelegant, to calculate Serial Greek values but then find Alexandrian Greek equivalents. In this case, the 93 for Thelema was too hard to resist, but of course Thelema is 44 in Serial Greek.

Anyway, in its most simple terms, you have The Scarlet Woman for the letters, Love for the numbers, and the letters O-N when the glyphs are split into two segments. Beyond that, there are no hard and fast rules on how to interpret, subdivide, and generate words from this string of glyphs. it is all a matter of what you want to emphasize. And you certainly can’t find people’s names hidden there. That is surely folly, and can be safely ignored 🙂

Litlluw
RLG

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