(Originally posted elsewhere — shared here due to its relevance in the context of Gematria.)
It is my firm belief that, whether it be UFOnauts, Thelemic texts or sacred scriptures, all ciphers will always deliver certain "meaningful" matches when we use them to "decode" those things.
One of the clearest examples of this can be found in Allen H. Greenfield's "Secret Cipher of the UFOnauts", in which he proposes that EQ / ALW / NAEQ is the "secret cipher" of the UFOnauts — for the simple fact that he was able to find "meaningful matches" when applying it to the cases he was researching.
But then a question arises:
What if we used a completely different cipher — would we still be able to find "meaningful matches"?
And the answer to this is an absolute YES.
Whether it be Simple/Ordinal, or John Farthing's Toavotea Key, or R. Leo Gillis' Trigrammaton Qabalah, or even Frater RIKB's Mars Kamea Gematria — or any other cipher you could think of — we will always find "meaningful" matches when we use this kind of ciphers to decode anything we want.
I did it before with the cipher of the Bavarian Illuminati, applying it to the names and specific phrases in Greenfield's book. I did it with Simple/Ordinal English. And I did it with Alphanumeric Qabbala, Edgar Joel Love's Cipher X, and even a personal experimental cipher — only to find that all of them, in a way or another, delivered some outstanding results when applied to this specific subject.
So what would make a cipher "relevant"?
Would it be the matches we can get when we apply it in a certain context?
Or is it the context we're working on that dictates which ciphers make sense to be used?
Also — how can we be sure that something was previously encoded with Gematria? Is it the "meaningful matches" we can get that "confirm" that? Or do we have to be extremely cautious in these things, for the simple reason that a "match" doesn't mean anything per se, except the meaning that we willingfully give to it?
Just some food for thought...
It is my firm belief that, whether it be UFOnauts, Thelemic texts or sacred scriptures, all ciphers will always deliver certain "meaningful" matches when we use them to "decode" those things.
Ok ...
Colour me a retard.
But all 'revelations' (in my opinion) can be delegated to not just subjective , but ....beyond human.
My point being.
The more that science gets into the quantum realm, the more you realise that
We are all connected
There are no revelations
We are all merely tapping into eachother
And Cosmic 'truths' all at the same time
In other words,
If Crowley is in a a hotel room high on weed or whatever after mediating, and he hears a voice in his head talking about things, it's because he is in a receptive state.
Receptive state can come from any manner of places, near-death, starvation, mediation, drug-high, booze-high, etc
Yes- half the time it's just yourself talking to yourself.
But the other half of the time, - You Know , you are plugged into the World.
No one needs make things up about numbers.
I think some members can back me up
This is the easy part. To reach the UFO's (sic)
The hard part is making it useful to your evolution as a spirit.
What if we used a completely different cipher — would we still be able to find "meaningful matches"?
And the answer to this is an absolute YES.
Back in the day, the first 8-bit computers were notoriously slow, even when programmed using machine language. The first time I wrote software that would analyze the complete text of Book of the Law using English-Hebrew gematria, the software ran so slow it was difficult to test it for bugs because of the time required to make math calculations using the cardinal values of the Hebrew gematria system. I realized that by using the values 1-26 instead, it would speed the program up by magnitudes, allowing the software to be tested and debugged. When I saw the gematria equations produced by the program, I was surprised to see how many words there are that share the same values, but quickly realized any system that uses the values 1-26 will produce what appear to be extraordinary connections between words, when they are actually random.
15 years later I was surprised to see the ALW/EQ group using the values 1-26, and realized whether it was intentional or not, they were duping people into believing they had found the English key to Liber Legis using little more than random word associations. On the other hand cardinal values are even worse! Hebrew gematria functions reasonably well because of the tri-consonantal structure of Hebrew words, where most words have no more than three or four letters. When the same values are applied to English words that are two to three times longer than Hebrew words, the word values are so large that very few words or even phrases will share the same value, making cardinal values almost useless for encoding anything complex in a text.
If an ordinal gematria system were used to encode something in the Book of the Law, it would have to be something impossible or unlikely to occur at random, and have to consist of recognizable symmetry. Something like a sequence of words or sentences that consist of prime numbers, or a sequence of sentences that share the same value, which is so rare that most gematria systems can't make two sentences in a row equal the same value, let alone three or more. For those reasons I have to laugh when anyone states that gematria can't prove anything, when it could prove everything.
The first time I wrote software that would analyze the complete text of Book of the Law using English-Hebrew gematria, the software ran so slow it was difficult to test it for bugs because of the time required to make math calculations using the cardinal values of the Hebrew gematria system. I realized that by using the values 1-26 instead, it would speed the program up by magnitudes, allowing the software to be tested and debugged. When I saw the gematria equations produced by the program, I was surprised to see how many words there are that share the same values, but quickly realized any system that uses the values 1-26 will produce what appear to be extraordinary connections between words, when they are actually random.
Precisely! In fact, what I call the "Standard" system of Gematria (what you call the "cardinal values") allows for much less equivalences than the Ordinal system, since the range of its values is larger, and thus it is less likely for two words or phrases to share the same value. That's one of the basic principles of Gematria, and one of the fundamental mathematical laws of probabilities behind "numerical matches" in Gematria.
15 years later I was surprised to see the ALW/EQ group using the values 1-26, and realized whether it was intentional or not, they were duping people into believing they had found the English key to Liber Legis using little more than random word associations.
I find it funny that you condemn EQ/ALW because its values go only from 1 to 26 (which is true) — but the same principle could (in principle) be applied to your own "Tri-key" solution, and even to my own alphanumeric solution, or in fact to most "solutions" to AL II:76 that we know of. And that's precisely what I was talking about. To base the "strength" of a cipher on the "meaningful matches" we can find with it may not always be the smartest solution, for the simple reason that most (if not all) ordinal-like ciphers will always deliver pretty good results when applied to the text of the Book of the Law.
On the other hand cardinal values are even worse! Hebrew gematria functions reasonably well because of the tri-consonantal structure of Hebrew words, where most words have no more than three or four letters. When the same values are applied to English words that are two to three times longer than Hebrew words, the word values are so large that very few words or even phrases will share the same value, making cardinal values almost useless for encoding anything complex in a text.
I wouldn't say it's useless — maybe it simply makes the encoding process harder. Harder, not impossible — so it certainly isn't useless. Particularly if one encodes hidden references using related ciphers simultaneously (i.e. for example Standard & Ordinal). I've done it myself before, so that's not news to me.
If an ordinal gematria system were used to encode something in the Book of the Law, it would have to be something impossible or unlikely to occur at random, and have to consist of recognizable symmetry. Something like a sequence of words or sentences that consist of prime numbers, or a sequence of sentences that share the same value, which is so rare that most gematria systems can't make two sentences in a row equal the same value, let alone three or more. For those reasons I have to laugh when anyone states that gematria can't prove anything, when it could prove everything.
I didn't say that Gematria can't prove anything. My point is that using only "meaningful matches" to validate a cipher (particularly an ordinal-like cipher) may not always be the wisest thing to do, for the reasons already stated above. Because if we can "prove" that a cipher is valid because it delivers "meaningful matches" — wouldn't we likewise be able to prove that it isn't valid because those "meaningful matches" are not unique to that cipher? That's precisely what I wish to convey.
A true solution to some of the mysteries of Liber AL would have to be extremely simple and clear beyond any doubt. And it can't depend on "meaningful matches" only, but instead on specific clues given in the source material. My alphanumeric theory for a solution to AL II:76 is one such solution that doesn't depend on numerical matches exclusively, but relies instead on very specific clues left in the source material.
"Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction."
— The New and Old Commentaries to Liber AL vel Legis, The Book of the Law (link).
That's one of the basic principles of Gematria, and one of the fundamental mathematical laws of probabilities behind "numerical matches" in Gematria.
Agreed, but most people, especially those new to gematria, are unaware of the probabilities. For instance, out of the trillions of possibilities there are for permutations of the 1-26 system, one system in every 52 will make the letters ABKALGMORY equal 113, whereas with the cardinal values, one permutation out of every 134,000 can produce the same value. That was the reason I worked with cardinal values exclusively for almost 20 years, until I started experimenting with the ordinal values to see what was actually possible.
I find it funny that you condemn EQ/ALW because its values go only from 1 to 26 (which is true) — but the same principle could (in principle) be applied to your own "Tri-key" solution, and even to my own alphanumeric solution, or in fact to most "solutions" to AL II:76 that we know of.
I'm not critical they use the values 1-26, I'm critical for not realizing the underlying mathematics involved, and for claiming they have discovered the English key to the Book of the Law when they offer no true evidence of it.
The possibilities do exist for using the values 1-26 to demonstrate a gematria equation that is unlikely to occur at random, and since you mentioned the Tri-key, I'll provide the most unique stand-alone example I have come across: What meaneth this o prophet = 143, consisting of the sentence that appears immediately after the II:76 puzzle, and after the numbers within it, which add to 143. The circumstances of its appearance are remarkable, while only one permutation out of every 500,000 ordinal systems will produce the equation. While the equation in itself is not proof the English key has been identified, it serves as an indicator of it. The reason the equation is so scarce among ordinal systems is because 143 is a very low value for 25 letters. Likewise, if the value was inordinately high, similar odds would be apparent.
I didn't say that Gematria can't prove anything
No, but a lot of people that think that, hence my statement.
A true solution to some of the mysteries of Liber AL would have to be extremely simple and clear beyond any doubt
The issues with simple solutions is they are the ones most likely to manifest as random patterns, while also accomplishing the least in terms of conveying information. If just one group of letters in the II:76 puzzle consisted of TRRIRT, it would be conceptually remarkable, given they translate into the numbers 299792, the true speed of light, which was not determined accurately until 1947. Regardless, the pattern could still be random, with the chances of it consisting of 1/15000, which is far less than the previous example.
I agree with you about the clarity of solutions: the pieces have to genuinely fall in place and make sense, as opposed to being strained and "fiddled with" as our resident skeptics have accused me of unjustly.
My alphanumeric theory for a solution to AL II:76 is one such solution that doesn't depend on numerical matches exclusively, but relies instead on very specific clues left in the source material.
I agree: viable verse solutions will require both numeric and ideological content that conveys a distinct message or information.
"Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction."
The simplicity that Crowley hoped for is unlikely based on the aforementioned issues.
I have been working on something the last few weeks that will change everything, and demonstrate something no one has ever seen or conceived of before in relation to the Book of the Law. I look forward to your response.
Dwtw
In the case of Liber CCXX, it specifically says in the text not to change a letter. The common sense understanding of that injunction is that the entire text is one long cipher, and changing even one letter of it will wreck it. This is not far-fetched. Ask any computer programmer how one missing or extra glyph can put a bug in the code. If you're text-searching a vast book for the name Ayyangar, and spell it Ayyanagar, you will get no results.
Given the fact that every letter matters, my first question for any prospective gematria of Liber AL is: what is the full total of the entire text? To date, I have gotten no answer which produces a significant number from any English gematria system. Except for Trigrammaton, where the Global Sum of Liber CCXX = 267,696 = 11 x 156 x 156.
These are numbers which are extremely important in Crowley's magick, and they did not occur randomly; they occurred as a result of using the key to the English Alphabet that he was tasked to find and which he gave us in his comment to Liber XXVII. And this total can be found hidden in significant portions of the text, such as the first verse and the Cipher of 2:76. This Global Sum is also 143 x 208, where 143 = The Book of the Law, and 208 = Nuit + Hadit + Ra-Hoor-Khuit. Now, giving us a text whose grand total is the product of its title and the names of its three divinities is pretty significant. Making some words or phrases within the text match each other, or match other important numbers, pales in comparison to that result.
If a given system produces some huge 6-digit prime number for the full text of Liber CCXX, then one has to ask, what is the meaning of this code Aiwass has transmitted? Why send us a huge number that is not connected with the Aeon that you're announcing? What is missing, or what has been added? or what has been calculated incorrectly?
Litllwtw
O.L.
In the case of Liber CCXX, it specifically says in the text not to change a letter. The common sense understanding of that injunction is that the entire text is one long cipher, and changing even one letter of it will wreck it.
The injunction could also serve to preserve the letter frequency counts.
Given the fact that every letter matters, my first question for any prospective gematria of Liber AL is: what is the full total of the entire text? To date, I have gotten no answer which produces a significant number from any English gematria system. Except for Trigrammaton, where the Global Sum of Liber CCXX = 267,696 = 11 x 156 x 156.
The result is not the simple product of gematria--there several other numeric calculations being thrown into the mix, and while it doesn't bother me, someone could accuse you of fiddling to produce a desired result.
There are over 100 multiplication equations that will produce the value 267696. 51 of them involve values that are less than 1000, while 21 of them use values that are less than 100; this provides you with an unusual amount of flexibility in finding a set of values that can be multiplied to arrive at 267696, and makes it impossible to distinguish the result from one that could be random.
Making some words or phrases within the text match each other, or match other important numbers, pales in comparison to that result.
Not necessarily. As noted above, the chances of the sentence that follows the puzzle equaling 143 randomly are 1/500,000. The chances of the TEG system making the letters of Liber Legis equal the value needed to arrive at 267696 are 1/135,000.
Why send us a huge number that is not connected with the Aeon that you're announcing?
Better yet, why send a huge number at all when many more smaller numbers can be produced from the text and be used to create multiple multi-dimensional constructs.
In the case of Liber CCXX, it specifically says in the text not to change a letter. The common sense understanding of that injunction is that the entire text is one long cipher, and changing even one letter of it will wreck it.
Not sure i am seeing the common sense understanding you perceive.
i always interpreted this command as placing great importance on the integrity of the text as such- not to preserve a cypher or letter-counts, but simply forbidding revision, edits, or any change to the content of this allegedly sacred, received text.
My explanation seems more Occam's razor-y.
Except for Trigrammaton, where the Global Sum of Liber CCXX = 267,696
You may find this interesting. In writing software that can analyze the concept of Global Sums, adding the values for the letters in Liber Legis one at a time is such a slow process that even with a fast computer it could take days to make a determination as to what the chances are a system can produce the sum 267696. To get around the limitation, I used the letter frequency counts to speed the process up by multiplying the value for each letter times its count, which reduces the required calculations from thousands to only 26.
i always interpreted this command as placing great importance on the integrity of the text as such- not to preserve a cypher or letter-counts, but simply forbidding revision, edits, or any change to the content of this allegedly sacred, received text.
My explanation seems more Occam's razor-y.
Dwtw
I think that may be a distinction without a difference. By not allowing the text to be corrupted, both results are guaranteed. The one result entails the other. If you intend to preserve a text perfectly intact, then whatever the text is supposed to convey will have its integrity preserved. So I guess your more general way of stating it would be more razor-like. But it will entail the integrity of any hidden cipher, if such exists.
And as we approach the tenth anniversary of the willful violation of that edict, it's helpful to cite the example of changing a single letter from F to K. It changed the meaning of one word, and thence the entire passage that contains it.
Litllwtw
O.L.
@herupakraath I didn't reply earlier because, if we are to "confirm" a system of Gematria based on the matches we can find with it, we will always find something that will seem to confirm our hypothesis.
You talked about how the Tri-key returns some relevant matches; I could do the same with Alphanumeric Qabbala and yet — behold! — some quite astonishing matches can be found as well:
1. The riddle in AL II:76 contains 28 numbers and letters. Not only is 28 a triangular number (meaning that is equals 1+2+3+...+7), but even the numbers of the chapter and the verse, when taken together, also make the 23rd triangular number (276 = 1+2+3+...+23). By a curious coincidence, the form of my birth name that I use literally everywhere, "Luis Goncalves", adds to 276 in AQ — as does the name of my brother (Tiago Goncalves) and also the phrase from AL III:58, "ye are brothers!". Also, my full birth name adds to 528 in AQ, the 32nd triangular number. If we were to use this as an argument to validate Alphanumeric Qabbala, can you imagine how small would be the probability of finding a cipher that could replicate the same results? It would be really tiny.
2. In the riddle of AL II:76, letters always come after numbers, and that's, in my opinion, the greatest clue towards a solution to this riddle. In my perspective, that factor alone is what points to the cipher that should be used to unravel the mysteries of AL, which is made precisely of letters coming after the 'numbers' (i.e. the numerals). Coincidentally or not, a list of the 10 Arabic numerals and the 26 English letters will contain exactly 36 alphanumeric characters, with 36 itself being a triangular number (36 = 1+2+3+...+8). Again, what would be the odds of finding a cipher fulfilling these characteristics?
3. "AL", the name of the Book of the Law, sums 31 in Alphanumeric Qabbala. The Law of Thelema, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", adds to 777 in the same cipher. What would be odds of finding these matches using Ordinal or Standard (what you call Cardinal) ciphers? Add this to the fact that in Liber 777, Crowley's book of numbers & letters, Crowley lists the 10 sephiroth and then the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet, numbering them from 11 to 32, and AQ becomes even more meaningful. If we were to list first the Indo-Arabic numerals from 0 to 9, and then the English letters from A to Z, we would end up precisely with Alphanumeric Qabbala: a continuous, non-redundant, alphanumeric sequence from 0 to Z=35. The odds of finding something similar with another cipher? They're extremely reduced, if not almost non-existent.
I won't go on with these "demonstrations", because by now it will have become apparent that each one of us will have a different perspective about some of the riddles contained in Liber AL — and accordingly, many of us will find a different solution and different "arguments" to confirm it. I, for one, always thought that searching for a true solution to the riddles of AL would be a useless pursuit, until one day the "solution" (read: my intuition towards a possible solution) came to me, like a flash of intuitive insight. So with this in mind, my opinion will always be biased, since I myself have my own perspective of what a true solution to the riddles of AL should look like. Now — does that mean that I'm right and all the others are wrong? And what about all the other solutions? Are their proponents right while all the others are wrong?
Maybe we're all right. Or maybe we're all wrong. Or maybe, only maybe, it was intended in fact to be this way. By gaining personal insight through the study of the Book of the Law (which is forbidden, according to the Comment), a whole new universe will be created through your own Will to find your own solution. Look at some of the marvelous findings by many people who tried to find a solution to AL. Should they all be discarded? Or should they be respected as they are, since they're a reflection of their creators' own True Will?
"All words are sacred and all prophets true" = 718 (AQ)
@jinx So what? Schizophrenics find connections in diverse words, numbers, and objects all the time.
Schizophrenics find connections in diverse words, numbers, and objects all the time.
There is no difference between schizophrenia and the mind of a disciple walking the Path.
Well, there is a difference in that one is uncontrolled and the schizorama needs to see a doctor who will give stuporific medications ... while the disciple purposely creates this other real. This is known as The Dual Life of the Disciple (a "disciple" is equivalent to 2=9 through Dominus) - Good grief and the pansies! Some degenerate people actually self-prescribe their own medications in order to get into this split-off state ... so what does that tell you ?
It tells me that things are mixed up and each person has to fight their way through the medical system, or the jungle, in the best way they can.
So what?
So, you see, because things are so mixed up, one of the Tasks is To Order the Mind, and Perdurabo chose Bennett's version of the Hebrew-English QBL to recommend (no, insist, require, demand) for our Ordering.
If one's mind is not ordered, then as one approaches the expanded realms, the mind gets twitchy and begins to misfire. Bizarre notions are entertained. Things go wrong.
An ordered mind, being equilibrated around the central core of Zero, is free to ignore or be entertained by the labors in the pit of because.
So the folks who work the numbers, the systems of Hod, are just trying to get their mminds ordered, equilibrated, and out of the way. But there are so many numbers and ways, so you see why they generate long long lengthy posts talking about numbers and words.
I once attended that school. Then taught in it. Then retired. If you haven't mastered it yet, don't worry, be happy, maybe you'll get another chance next incarnation ... or maybe that'll be too late, and this is your last chance.
... many diverse solutions to AL.
The ultimate solution, for anyone, is to realize that AL is/was a Crowley publication, and that one has his or her own opus to present once they do their incumbency in The Heliopolis Hotel.
It tells me that things are mixed up and each person has to fight their way through the medical system, or the jungle, in the best way they can.
Excellent observation, your summation is razor-sharp. I take quetiapine at night, and it gives me vivid, complicated dreams. Sometimes my dreams are full of occult symbolism, sometimes not. Picking what is significant over the useless stuff has become a nightly routine.
If one's mind is not ordered, then as one approaches the expanded realms, the mind gets twitchy and begins to misfire. Bizarre notions are entertained. Things go wrong.
Right again! A disciple without a Master is like a man wandering the desert chasing mirages.
@jinx So what? Schizophrenics find connections in diverse words, numbers, and objects all the time.
Really, magickal correspondences in general can be seen as a form of applied apophenia. There's nothing necessarily wrong with this as long as it has practical application and its subjective nature is kept in perspective.
Really, magickal correspondences in general can be seen as a form of applied apophenia. There's nothing necessarily wrong with this as long as it has practical application and its subjective nature is kept in perspective.
Is apophenia an exclusively human attribute, or do primates demonstrate associations? Or, possibly other species such as blackbirds which are known for having memory and the ability to develop strategies.
quetiapine ...
"... is thought to work by helping to restore the balance of certain chemical messengers or neurotransmitters in the brain, which improves mood, thinking and behavior. It mainly works by blocking the receptors of two neurotransmitters called serotonin and dopamine."
Oh, I see. It's a reuptake inhibitor for BOTH serotonin (common) AND dopamine (hmm - this one's new to me). As a note, it imply must (imperative) be noted that Cocaine, an extract of the Coca plant, once used in Coca Cola (TM). is a white powder that is a "Yin Poison" that, when intaken, causes dopamine to "get lost" ... the opposite of your med that allows dopa to "build up." More dopa causes quicker erasures of wild-horse-impulses and thoughts, so it's like a tranquilizer. This has been a public-service medical message, and now we return to our sponsor, the thread, which is trying to explain how numbers are meaningful ...
apophenia
Wait a fraction of an increment of time! This means "The perception of or belief in connectedness among unrelated phenomena.'
Uh-huh. People will say That person is crazy.
Then Jung tells us "Synchronicity is a meaningful coincidence, and the connection is acausal" (no visible cause-effect connection).
So, you see, because things are so mixed up, one of the Tasks is To Order the Mind, and Perdurabo chose Bennett's version of the Hebrew-English QBL to recommend (no, insist, require, demand) for our Ordering.If one's mind is not ordered, then as one approaches the expanded realms, the mind gets twitchy and begins to misfire. Bizarre notions are entertained. Things go wrong.
An ordered mind, being equilibrated around the central core of Zero, is free to ignore or be entertained by the labors in the pit of because.
So the folks who work the numbers, the systems of Hod, are just trying to get their mminds ordered, equilibrated, and out of the way. But there are so many numbers and ways, so you see why they generate long long lengthy posts talking about numbers and words.
Your observations are on-point and I totally subscribe to them.
My "odyssee" with Alphanumeric Qabbala started almost 2 years ago, and since then my life took a whole different course. Getting in contact with this cipher (and everything that came with it) made me loose faith in everything I believed before. Never before did I ever feel like this, or perhaps more correctly, lost like this. Without anything to believe in, you start questioning what it is that you should do to fulfill your mission: but how can you do it if you don't have any "anchor" to hold on to, no God or Devil to put your trust in, and no certainties whatsoever? That's been my struggle for these last two years.
What I do know, however, is that since AQ came to me, I've been seeing the number 36 constantly, everyday and everywhere, until it reached absolutely feverish intensities and I even doubted my own mental health. And when I say that I see the number 36 constantly and everywhere, I'm not talking about finding "matches" with Gematria, or even about using Gematria at all. I'm talking about being chased by the number 36 wherever I go, whatever I do — even if I purposefully ignore it whenever it pops up, it will still continue to show up. This never happened before in my whole life.
What does this mean? I have no idea. I still have a gut feeling that this cipher is relevant and that maybe I am supposed to do "something" with it — but I don't know what it is, nor why did it came to me, or how the hell am I supposed to go beyond these "crossroads" in my life.
* * *
By the way, the reason why I showed those "demonstrations" of AQ was simply to compare them to @herupakraath's "proofs" of his Tri-key cipher. If we are to "confirm" a cipher by the matches we can find with it — will there be any cipher that cannot be proven right through the matches we can find with it? And what does that tell us? The answer, I think, lies in my first message in this topic.
The ultimate solution, for anyone, is to realize that AL is/was a Crowley publication, and that one has his or her own opus to present once they do their incumbency in The Heliopolis Hotel.
And right you are!
@shiva Ciphers and numbers are simply not my interest. I was lousy at math in school, and for me complex numbers are a foreign language, although I admire people who are adept at it. Numerology is a pseudo-science and is on the face of it very interesting, especially the numbers in The Book of Revelations in the NT. Six Hundred and Sixty-six. etc.
and no certainties whatsoever?
In Dzogchen, the student is FIRST exposed directly to the goal (via direct transmission from the teacher) ... then he/she undertakes a curriculum designed to attain that goal ... without the teachers help.
The aspirant is advised (required) to proceed without doubt, if success is to be found. Well, why not? If one has been somewhere, and they have that memory, then how can one doubt that they/ve been there?
It's fairly easy (to doubt/forget). That's why the first injunction is to have No Doubt ... because it's the main thing that'll knock you off the trail.
Does this procedure also occur in other Eastern cults? Not that I am aware of.
Does this procedure also occur in Western systems? It is implied in the ceremonies of Masonry, Christianity, Judaism.
Does this procedure also occur in Thelema? This is one of those Yes or No things. If one goes to OTO, pays the fees, gets the rite (I*), they have symbolically "been exposed" to their true nature. Using this rite, as an example, and giving each candidate a full dose of legal Sandoz magic elixir, over a period of 3 years ... the number of people who encountered their "true self" was so low that a QBL thread on the subject should not be opened. But it worked for me, and a few others. I think the percentages are about the same east & west - maybe a bit higher in the east, because they tend to live out in the sticks (in certain zones).
So Thelema offers a curriculum that implis and symbolizes getyting the Goal right up front. Ther keynote/hallmark of the Malkuthian First Degree is The Vision of Adonia, or The Vision of the HGA.
Yes. This is what the first degree (in any system) is supposed to be. It hardly ever is.
And for those who catch the spark at Level one, I can assure you (anyone), that there will come a time (or times) as just described, by Junx, which is known in some cultures as limbo. Well, that's part of the ride, getting lost so one can find the self.
So, yeah, Thelema includes this initial glimpse of the goal. The problem is that it takes an 8=3 to "directly transmit" this goal to the student. That's the way it's supposed to be - A Master of the Temple develops the Beginner. Ha!
Ha! If people think getting access to the lowest Student Reading List level is hard, most of them won't even answer an email, you know, is hard or impossible ... what are the odds of getting direct access to an 8=3? You (anyone) could ask Los about this.
Ciphers and numbers are simply not my interest.
Mine neither. Not any more. But I did the course. In your case, perhapd you have some other system to order your mind. QBL is required in Thelemic curriculae, but it's not the only one around.
Maybe to are rooted in the dewey decimal system ?
I was lousy at math in school
So was Albert Einstein. I heard he flunked high-school algebra.
Maybe to are rooted in the dewey decimal system ?
AHA! I hadn't thought about the Dewey Decimal system for decades. Yes, maybe. Then there is The Library of Congress Classification system. With it's alphameric system of classification and sub-classification. Without "derailing" Aristotle's Biology was a interesting study even though woefully out of date.
So was Albert Einstein. I heard he flunked high-school algebra.
Fine company you put me in. This begs the question, how do written equations=practical application? Way out of my league!
Then there is The Library of Congress Classification system.
But the Dewey system is decimal - this means ten (10)[X] 0.0 = 2 Zeroes.
Thus, the DDS is in harmonic convergence, automatically without fidding, with The Tree of Life, which also suffers from decadent decimalism.
alphameric system of classification and sub-classification
Is it based on 10 or 0.1 ? If so, what a find. If not, it's heretical and you may use it, but it'll do no good here, or in communicating with adherents of The Ten-Tree.
how do written equations=practical application? Way out of my league!
First, it should be noted
that Albert was quoted
saying I didn't figure it out
- It was "given" to me
Second, somebody took his simple equation, "given" to him no less, maybe it was him who translated it ... somebody said, "Well, if this Mass (m) is unstable plutonium, and we squares it, then compress it really hard, it will release enough Energy (e) to level Hiroshima.
But that was just a guess. Until the moment of the big bang, Oppenheimer an company were in doubt ... they admitted that there was a possibility that the plant would disintegrate. But, no, they did their math just right, and barelry controlled destruction rolled out of the night.
This is also out of my league, along with a (dis)appreciation of foreign lingos. I need to have been born before the Fall of the Tower of Babylon.
Now returning to our sponsor, Meaningful Numbers ...
@shiva "Meaningful numbers..." Every number is infinite, there no difference. (My Crowley cop-out quote)
Every number is infinite, there no difference.
This is true, but only if one is in samadhi. AL cites a lot of things that are ultimate solutions (syntheses), which are only "realized" (made real) in samadhi, where things tend to blend together.
Down here in the lower levels, especially Level 8, the people of Hod make a difference between any little thing and its minuscule other.
Look at it this way: If the gov overcharges you an infinite amount on some (any) tax, do you notice the difference?
This [^] question illustrates the difference between wallowing in samadhi, confusing the planes, and proper accounting in the realm of Mammon.
Down here in the lower levels, especially Level 8, the people of Hod make a difference between any little thing and its minuscule other.
My knowledge of Qabala is rusty, and I have to clear away decade's worth of cobwebs in my consciousness. I looked up the word HOD and was pleasantly surprised at how it assisted me in understanding your response. (Dare I say lecture to the acolyte?) I must go back to basics in learning the language and meaning of the Sephiroth. Then, maybe I can correspond with you intellectantly.
In the case of Liber CCXX, it specifically says in the text not to change a letter. The common sense understanding of that injunction is that the entire text is one long cipher, and changing even one letter of it will wreck it.
Change any ol' letter, or is there a particular letter that, if changed, would prevent the "decoder" from verifying the "message" that is hidden in the cipher?
Also — how can we be sure that something was previously encoded with Gematria? Is it the "meaningful matches" we can get that "confirm" that? Or do we have to be extremely cautious in these things, for the simple reason that a "match" doesn't mean anything per se, except the meaning that we willingfully give to it?
This is equally true with all text, even mundane text. Liber al is a deeply paradoxical and psychological work––self referencing both to itself (The book is about how the book was written, how it should be distributed and how it should be verified) and to the reader projecting their psyche on to it. So ultimately you are correct here of course, but this text I think wants us to unscramble how it is we create and design meaning.
Liber CCXX however, as a "narrative story" about the encounter between the Beast (Crowley), his Angel, Aiwass––is the instruction of reproducing the story of the revelation, which include instructions for printing, distribution, and most importantly *verification*.
There are references in the text regarding the verification of the meaning, the "one who will come after" type of prophecy. The book wants the reader to go on the journey of discovery, with "dire warnings" along the way as well as predictive "milestones" with each discovery.
Because the work is likely "twilight language", the paradoxes of the text are meant to communicate something which is not possible to communicate with outer symbol, but to be experienced internally and verified.
I believe one of the things the book is communicating is the absurdity of using gematria in any type of "objective" way, like a mathematician would use numbers, the symbols will never communicate the meaning, only verify the meaning after it has been discovered and in a manner that would be beyond the expectations of the discoverer, making it very intimate and personal.
The more that science gets into the quantum realm, the more you realise that
We are all connected
Twilight language only makes sense when applying a nondual view of mind or mind as the substance that connects all of us (as opposed to matter which creates the appearance of object/subject)
I find it funny that you condemn EQ/ALW because its values go only from 1 to 26 (which is true) — but the same principle could (in principle) be applied to your own "Tri-key" solution,
what is this proposed "tri-key" solution? forgive if I have not followed fully.
"Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction."
— The New and Old Commentaries to Liber AL vel Legis, The Book of the Law (link).
There is a one-word solution to the riddle of this text––Mystery.
And it can't depend on "meaningful matches" only, but instead on specific clues given in the source material.
Yes, it should reflect the milestones of the individual journey, and the individual discovery of the "meaning" should produce resolution to previous "condundrums" or contradictions the individual encounters along the way.
Consider however, discovering that one single "missing" letter could provide a way to verify one single and cohesive message?
I agree with you about the clarity of solutions: the pieces have to genuinely fall in place and make sense, as opposed to being strained and "fiddled with" as our resident skeptics have accused me of unjustly.
Each revelation the discover believes they have found should produce a new level of "understanding". How many dimensions you can see in this picture? Note the illusion requires a level of understanding about how to view the cube which is distinct from the data contained within the cube.
All the different ways to view the cubes in the picture relate to how flexible our mind is and to the degree with which we know what the image is as opposed to how we can understand the image. The different possible dimensions are all embedded into the cube. The clues are all in the image.
Liber al vel Legis contains a way to verify what it is anyone believes they have discovered. If the discovery is truly the message of the whole book, then the proof should be a cohesive understanding of the entirety of the book, not just a few singular riddles and passage, but a journey from conflict into resolution with the text, uncovering a "hidden teaching" about the nature of the non-dual mind.
If the discoverer uncovers the nature of the non-dual mind, either from clues in the text or imagined clues in the text––it would really matter very little.
"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson
what is this proposed "tri-key" solution? forgive if I have not followed fully.
See here: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/the-tri-key-solution/#post-106548
... the cube ...
Totally off-topic, but I was perplexed at first seeing my logo:
... the cube ...
Totally off-topic, but I was perplexed at first seeing my logo:
Hopefully a good perplexed as perhaps speaks to your intentions with your logo in what might suggest oroboric reflections
Hopefully a good perplexed as perhaps speaks to your intentions with your logo in what might suggest oroboric reflections
Well, of course the Logo started out as showing the two Lutz Lemke Ls (and a darker one). But of course I was aware of the many reflections this thing has. It suits me.