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[Closed] The Mystery of the Letters and the Tree of Life


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(@jg)
Frosty the Snowman
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Topic starter  

I will admit I do little of gematria now, though was caught up by it earlier in my Thelemic career. Yet, what I wrote in my book has a large content of letter and number assignments to the paths on my Tree of Life. What I see here is a different approach, detailed, thought out well. I do claim the magical grade of Minerval, though some do not accept that....only I can know for myself. What I like is that that magical grade allows the greatest freedom of exploration, the greatest willingness to accept change and suggestion, and the greatest openness. Where do I find that separate thread mentioned above for abn53? Discussion and criticism is the way to truth.

Hi Robert,

I have started a new thread for you.  I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment of your final line.  Either you can initiate the conversation, or I or someone else will contribute to start it.

John


abn53
(@abn53)
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I have just discovered this thread. Please explain how to begin it? It uses the title of my recent book discussing three Class A books....Liber AL, Liber Trigrammaton and Liber 231 and how they complement one another. I think we probably need some basic question to explore...then see how it evolves.


Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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Here's a basic one...

I raised the notion of "fill" being related more to the "Angel", and "kill being more related to the "Abyss", in the "fill/kill" thread.

As I was reading the expositions of both RLG and JG, I noticed that the Qabalah they were doing very aptly points to both the Formula of the Rosy Cross and to Triangles!

So, I think a thread beginning with both Rosy Cross/ Triangle (Eye in the Triangle, Base of the Triangle re: Sphinx, City of the Pyramids, etc.) would be pretty interesting.

Or, something dealing with just the the Pillars of the Tree of Life (Severity, Middle/Balance, Mercy).

They all seem like decent places to start. Or, of course, one could start at the 'beginning' - in Malkuth!


abn53
(@abn53)
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please expand your suggestions....provide more detail.  Not quite sure what you are suggesting.


Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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"abn53" wrote:
please expand your suggestions....provide more detail.  Not quite sure what you are suggesting.

I'm suggesting that you place all 32 paths of the Sephiroth onto a dart board, and use darts to choose what to talk about.

What is the book you mentioned, anyway?


amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
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"Azidonis" wrote:
"abn53" wrote:
please expand your suggestions....provide more detail.  Not quite sure what you are suggesting.

I'm suggesting that you place all 32 paths of the Sephiroth onto a dart board, and use darts to choose what to talk about.

Perhaps a little harsh that?  Maybe the OP could suggest a jumping off point?

"Azidonis" wrote:
What is the book you mentioned, anyway?

Link in the quoted text in the first post.


Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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"amadan-De" wrote:
"Azidonis" wrote:
"abn53" wrote:
please expand your suggestions....provide more detail.  Not quite sure what you are suggesting.

I'm suggesting that you place all 32 paths of the Sephiroth onto a dart board, and use darts to choose what to talk about.

Perhaps a little harsh that?

Well, that's kind of where we're at. This thread is here, but seems to have no real purpose other than to "talk about the Qabalah", to which, there appears to be no specific object of the Qabalah in question. Thus, any devised 'starting point' might be akin to just throwing darts at the Tree of Life and see how the conversation takes off.

Like this:

According to TEQ, Darts = 66, the sum of the numbers 1-11

D = 23
A = 5
R = 14
T = 9
S = 15

66 could be seen as a glyph for the Winter Solstice, possibly.

Or, used in a Talismanic Triangle of Abrahadabra, as the sum of the amount of letters used to make that Triangle, or Pyramid. (Source, Book of Mutations)

It is also a part of Liber B vel Magi:

"The Book of Mutations" wrote:
This Will is also found in the original bifurcation: One = 47, Twain = 46. Their total is 93. Contrast this with the names that one and twain relate to: Magus = 77, forces = 66. Their total is 143 = The Book of the Law."

The MS of Liber L has 66 pages, if you count the title page.

66 is also the enumeration of the following words from the Holy Books: Affright, Atheism, Bank, Bent, Casting, Dipping, Display, Drain, Exempt, Faun, Firmly, Fitted, Flying, Forces, Forgot, Gleams, Glorify, Grade, Haunt, Horns, House, Hymn, Inane, Liquor, Locked, Move, Nightly, Ordeal, Preacheth, Reins, Scimitar, Secret, Sides, Sister, Slayer, Souls, Spears, Specks, Thereat, Triads, Twelve, Upright, Value, Varieth, Walking, Woods, Writing

Also, this thread was created on May 27. Close, but no cigar!

"The Book of Mutations" wrote:
May 25 is Day 66
The antigram pair is 147 and 213
66 = SECRET
147 = Manifestation
213 = all-touching, all penetrant

Had! the Manifestation of Nuit.

So she answered him, bending down, a lambent flame of blue, all-touching, all penetrant, her lovely hands upon the black earth, & her lithe body arched for love, and her soft feet not hurting the little flowers: Thou knowest!

The word Manifestation is of critical importance in the exegesis of Liber AL. Its counterpart here is part of the description of Nuit. First you have her form, which is curved. Then you have her appearance, akin to a gas-jet, and next you have the characteristics all-touching and all penetrant, (note the hyphen in the first word), followed by the description of her iconography. So this pair of concepts sticks out due to its more generalized nature. Nuit is alltouching in that she touches everything in existence; knowing this is the consciousness of the omnipresence of her body. She is “all penetrant” because she is both above us and in us; immanent and transcendant at once.
Pairing this with the idea of manifestation, they seem to reinforce each other in meaning. In order for there to be a manifestation of Nuit there must be Had, and when she
is manifest, she is all touching and penetrant because she exists in every manifestation, she is the external and internal reality of the Hadit point. It verges on tautology in a way.

Although I do think it's kind of cool that "darts" has a reference with the number of letters used to make a Talismanic Triangle of Abrahadabra, or Pyramid, or whatever.

"amadan-De" wrote:
Maybe the OP could suggest a jumping off point?

Maybe. For some reason, I thought this thread was going to be about abn53s book, and how it relates to the "fill/kill" issue Qabalistically.

"amadan-De" wrote:
"Azidonis" wrote:
What is the book you mentioned, anyway?

Link in the quoted text in the first post.

Thanks. Missed it.


abn53
(@abn53)
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The book referred to is my "Mystery of the Letters and the Tree of Life" available at Weiser Antiquarian.

The basic relationships are that Liber Trigrammaton describes the lights and vessels of the sephiroth.
Liber 231 relates to the paths that connect the sephiroth. The two sigils for each letter represent polarities of the nature of that letter, or path.

When Crowley tried to match letters to the trigrams, he was not happy with the results. The above statement may explain why.


abn53
(@abn53)
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There may be some overlap (? needing integration) of other forums...Emperors New Clothes, Trigrammaton, Tzaddi and Star.


abn53
(@abn53)
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To begin discussion, let me point out some places where Liber XXXI (the manuscript) and Liber CCXX (typeset interpretations) differ. Both are considered “Class A” by Crowley. I propose we consider the following as a basis for discussion. I’m sure other ideas will emerge.

First: Crowley is well recognized as reognizing the superiority of Liber XXXI over any other Class A works, including typeset versions (Equinox I (7): 386. Only the manuscript facsimile appears here.

His authority is later claimed in the brochure enclosed with the manuscript facsimile of the Tunis Edition. He received the original transmission. Crowley subsumes himself with Ankh-af-na-konsu, the Priest of the Princes. (The phrase “the prophet Ankh-af-na-konsu” also occurs In XXXI:  III :38.)

The Comment first appears in print in this folder/brochure, and applies here only to Liber XXXI, since no typeset version was included. As far as I have been able to ascertain, putting The Comment as “Class A” appears first in the , Motta, 1975. I would like to find a reference from Crowley himself. Is this the only “Class A” publication not recognized as such by Crowley?

Second: There are text differences between Liber XXXI and Liber CCXX. That is to be expected when any manuscript is translated/transliterated/transformed to another format. It requires some interpretation. Changes in the manuscript are inherently detectable. Changes in typescript can be detected only by comparison with other versions. The shape and position of the letters are different.

Some of the differences occur in parts of the manuscript that do not appear to have been changed from 1904. They are consistent in all editions of Liber CCXX. They presumably represent Crowley’s prophetic interpretation. They do not refer to quotations of other material, such as precipitated the fill/kill/stele debate.

I believe some of these differences make it impossible to explore the mystery of the letters. The text of XXXI: III: 48 implies that the necessary information in XXXI: III: 48 is complete — “Now the mystery of the letters is done”. The reasons were suggested immediately before in XXXI: III: 47 on pages 15 and 16 — chance shape and position.

This book shall be translated into all
tongues: but always with the original in
the writing of the Beast; for in the |
the chance shape of the letters and their
position to one another: in these are mysteries
that no Beast shall divine. Let him
not seek to try:”

Yet he added the grid over it in later years for whatever reason!

(As an aside, I can say, “I believe the moon is made of green cheese.” Whether or not this is a statement of my true belief, it does not make the moon green cheese.)

The following selections seem to be in their unquestioned April 1904 state (as best determined by the reduced scale version of XXXI in the  Equinox I (7) foldout).

Chapter I: page 18 (=CCXX:I:57) the glyph is interpreted as a Tzaddi as early as Thelema 1909 (when the versification of CCXX was first published). Crowley wrestled with this interpretation, discussing it in commentaries and in The Book of Thoth. In asking individuals about the glyph, no one has said to me it is indisputably a Tzaddi.

What did Crowley hear? What did Crowley mean? What was his “intent”? These questions are moot if one considers “chance shape of the letters” significant. What he wrote is evident.

Chapter II: 76. In the riddle, the 24 and 89 each have parentheses above and below the numbers. This is distinctive, since parentheses are standard before and after a selection. Yet, both are absent from all typeset versions (Liber CCXX). Chance shape and position?

Chapter III: 1. Liber CCXX has this word as Abrahadabra. That is the way most of us learned it (few, if any, memorize the manuscript!). I have watched people read “Abrahadabra” several times before recognizing the difference from the manuscript. It is easier to learn something afresh than to have to substitute and relearn.

Chapter III. 47. The line is the largest single pen stroke in the manuscript. The circle squared (in its failure) follows. Both are specifically listed as keys to the mysteries. How can one find an answer when the stated keys are missing?

        In the manuscript (Liber XXXI) we have the original transmission. In typeset versions (Liber CCXX) we are always subject to a (sometimes unknown) editor, typesetter or publisher.

The book proposes some explanations of the above. The way to truth is to discuss, criticize and challenge. Fact are important, assumptions are dangerous. The stronger the criticism, the more likely the truth will emerge.


 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Ok

The tree is composed of paths which are composed of letters which "hold the sephroth together and lead from one to another". This is just a mind trick but it may suffice.

Each letter equals a colour and a meaning and a frequency and so on.

If you project a letter into the 'chaosphere' viz. The AStral Light in the right way this letter (or those letters) will manifest into your world. Which is not only YOURSELF but ALL YOUR EXPERIENCE contains...you know, the place where you live etc

This was REVEALED by HIS HOLINESS THE BEAST in his LIBER 777.

A good read, too.

And some annotations we all could fill in there, too 🙂


Mazus
(@mazus)
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For those interested there is an interesting essay regarding some text considerations between Libers XXXI and CCXX in the Proceedings of NOTOCON 7.  There is, of course, the essay in the recent Marlene Cornelius book that specifically addresses the kill/fill issue. 


abn53
(@abn53)
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Check out a more concentrated version: Thelema Re:AL Arcanorum. The manuscript is available in the LASHTAL Library.


Tiger
(@tiger)
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@suckus93
Is this your Tai Chi exercise in dealing with your energy and the Threefold return and the Rule of Three ?


Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @tiger

Is this your Tai Chi exercise   ?

This is not Tai Chi. This is a disease. The antibiotics have been ordered.

 


Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
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Posted by: @tiger

@suckus

Is this your Tai Chi exercise

What was the Tai Chi exercise being referred to here? I cannot see the relevant post from @suckus.

Blinkingly yours,

Norma N Joy Conquest


kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I cannot see the relevant post

It was quietly removed without comment by our Webmaster. 


Jamie J Barter
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

It was quietly removed without comment by our Webmaster. 

Is this a fact or a supposition based on 'negative evidence' - I don't remember seeing the relevant post(s) as I must have come to this thread relatively late (i.e. afterwards) but it seems an odd continuation from the last ones over five years ago.  It also seems odd to remove a post about Tai Ci, if that's what it was, and Paul does normally let us know if he removes any posts as it doesn't happen very often at all no matter how 'bad' they might be and is far more likely to lock the thread (and especially if it's off-topic).

N Joy


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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It was there, and vanished.

It was a rude, stupid, and abusive post, cursing Shiva; Paul did well to remove it, and ban @suckus, the poster.

Although i have to confess to a touch of jealousy- no one has cursed, jinxed, or otherwise put the kibosh on me in literally a whole month. What am i, chopped liver?


Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
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Posted by: @ignant666

It was a rude, stupid, and abusive post, cursing Shiva; Paul did well to remove it, and ban @suckus, the poster.

It was there, and vanished.

Oh!  I see.  (Or rather I don't, anymore!)

Thank you for clearing this up, ignant.

(And I'm sure it won't be too long to wait before someone else "has a go" at you...

Patience, patience my friend!)

N Joy

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posts: 5795
 
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I don't remember seeing the relevant post

I did. It was aimed at me, by name, the innocent bystander. I neglected to challenge this de-arranged person ...

Suckup93
(what a title)

... and simply pushed the "Report" button to inform the Secret Religious Police. Not long thereafter, the post (possibly regurgitated while under the influence of the poisonous alcohol, or the inability to find his medication) disappeared. You are not expected to understand the process, since it was an act of Magick ... and you know how confusing that can be.

Your lengthy exposition of possible alternatives is simply your mind running the numbers and the ways. The Webmaster removed the offensive post. He chose the wu-way instead of the Horus vs Set maneuver. The wu is silent.

 


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Good golly Moses, what a self-important cuckoo-pants you are!!

So you are saying you so terrified the elderly Shiva with your martial arts skillz and big magick that he... invited you come on down and show your stuff?

For those not inclined to click on strange folks' videos, we learn that our charming friend enjoys long walks on the beach.

just noticed the website, which i vaguely recall seeing before with different content other than the music page. Mostly incoherent butt-hurt schizophrenic decompensation babble similar to above post:

instagram is hologram of your shitpipe appendix. cosnult nearest toilet. Yes me V.V,ant to V.V.V.omit T.O.O. [...] No Tarot for you, you cant be new school with toddler education, you laughable shitheads of holy disorder.. o.t.o. and all a.a. are shamefull pussy clubs. fuck you

My advice: get back on your meds before you end up in a rubber room.

If i was still doing the art-noise music, my new band would be Shamefull Pussy Clubs though.


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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And wondering, @suckus93 my old pal (as i now realize), when you will live up to your promise to "to never show up on this place again" that you made on 8/8/19?

Just can't keep away can you? How can we miss you when you won't go?

Your music still sucks BTW, i knew that website looked familiar!


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @suckus93

before I die, I will humiliate the rest of you beyond your wildest imaginations, thats a promise.

Can't hardly wait.

You are just sooo macho and intimidating, i am quaking in my slippers right now.

[yawns; scratches balls reflectively]

I think my first death threat on this site was maybe 2012 or so?

----------------

Are you the hippy guitar-masturbator, or the landscape painter, or both? Melting now.


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Changing the name of Shamefull Pussy Clubs to Pussy Actors. You are very scared by vaginas i guess?

How will you find my grave? Why would you bother?

Do you have any idea how nuts, and how pathetic, you sound?


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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To the cuckoo-pants man: Ending this pointless convo with a crazy person, have fun cursing me further.

To the public: Get those seed orders in kids, spring is coming early this year!


Tiger
(@tiger)
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@suckus93
Not bad for a years work; keep it up.
Come back in a decade and give us something worth looking at.

You might even grow by then.


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
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My goodness, and badass too.
I hardly know what to do.
He's loose, he's loose, he's loose.
Call the police before you call Reuss
(about the OTO dig).

In only three hours, according to the timestamps, such an amazing dialog of manic, mania, and music. I wonder how we can track the maniac down before we die, so we can prevent excrement from piling up our graves?

I will consult my Dracula manuals in order to remember whether it's gold bullets or silver stakes that must be employed.

Look, Ignant, this guy (probably not a gal) spent ten years of his life preparing a thesis that nobody read or congratulated him upon. Do you think we missed our chance at Liberation and Heaven on Earth?

 


djedi
(@djedi)
𒇽𒅗𒅗𒈠
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Posts: 353
 
Posted by: @suckus93

is this nigga serious?

My thoughts, exactly.


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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So your advanced spiritual attainments have led you to threatening old men an ocean away from you, because they hurt your widdle fee-fees on the internets 9 months ago?

Have you been stewing ever since?

Do you have any idea how pathetic, and how very very nuts, you sound?

So, "no citizenship"? Do let me know when you arrive in the USA, Mr Slovakian Without A Passport!

 

 


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @suckus93

Ignatius mama's vaginal liquids..

And a necrophiliac to boot.

Mom was cremated- not a lot of liquids for you, even if you are into dead elderly women


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @suckus93

when I arrive into USA, I will have diferent nationality and passport

Uh-huh. Sure you will.

Can you provide us with additional pathetic boasting in a vain attempt to compensate for your deep feelings of failure and total inadequacy?

I knew you could! See- everyone's good at something! You really are a special boy, just like mommy always said!

Posted by: @suckus93

do ypu even know where slovakia is?

Kinda here:

image

A little more than 4200 miles away from me.

 


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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I would be just terrified if you weren't 4200 miles away across an ocean, and if i weren't used to threats from actual dangerous persons.

Since i have given my real name on this site often, and it is easy to determine my address with my name, do you want some sort of prize?

You do know Americans have guns, right?


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5795
 

With my name and current address already being known to the FBI, the OTO, and most players here, and a few having actually visited my citadel, and the story of Solar Ranch and the Arsonist in the Box tale known by everyone (because I wrote a whole book or two about it), I don't want you to think your cleverness is clever.

It may take a day or two (like it did last time), but this time I hope the Moderator pulls your account.

There are two things you should consider, plus one to end it all.

1. Regardless of kronologikal or physiological age, your ranting and wailing is worthy of someone who is in the 11-16 age range. If you have a psychological problem (you do) or a sociological disorder (this seems likely), you are granted an extra three years on the upper side of that range.

2. With all your esoteric pretending, it is obvious that you do not understand the Law of Karma.

3. The only effective means of dealing with Choronzon is [Silence], which I will now begin to practice.

[Silence]


Tiger
(@tiger)
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@suckus93
god bless you, jesus loves, you may you be saved.


Tiger
(@tiger)
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@suckus93
“ I have zero tolerance for pretenders “

What do you do about yourself ?

Go slow; practice the Tai Chi movements slower, balance with Yin and don’t yelp.
After awhile things might clear for sanity and balanced people might guest your circle.
Patience.


lashtal
(@lashtal)
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Thread locked. Suckus93's account deleted.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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