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The Riddle again


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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93 all!

A few weeks ago I dreamt I solved the riddle in Liber Al, II-76. The key was so unbelievably ridiculous and stupid that I decided (just for fun) to check if there was any truth in my dream. So far I could not solve it - either I did not remember the dream correctly or - more probable - the dream was simply stupid. Anyway, working the riddle I encountered a lot of different solutions in books, pamphlets, the web and thought it might be a good idea to "collect solutions to II-76". So, if anyway cares to share his favourite solution (in full seriousness or in plain nonsense) in a format that fits a forum thread (which means no pages of pages of numbers) I would be very grateful. Also, I am looking for another solution I once read in a forum that doesn't exist anymore, which was the "phonetic solution" - i.e. it started like "4 6 3 8" is "for this create" and ended like "RPSTOVAL" is "are pissed of all" (maybe, I don't remember). Since I am not a native English speaker I might not get all of the phonetics that might be contained. Anyone here remember that "solution" and is willing to share?

And of course, if I solve it soon, I will let everyone know.

Love=Law
Lutz


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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The alphanumeric sequence in verse II:76 serves as proof that the English Qabala needed to unlock the Book of the Law has been formulated. The test is three-dimensional, as is its startling solution, which as predicted by Aleister Crowley is indeed a test on the regular pattern.

Any English gematria system can be applied to the letters in the test and produce results, a frustrating fact for most that attempt solving it with gematria. One of the only stringent conditions that can be applied to the process is the requirement that all of the letters be processed simultaneously for a singular result. In the case of the Threefold Key, the combined values of the letters in the test add to 1545, the same as the enumeration of English Alphabet and English Values, results that provide a strong indication the correct gematria system has been found and applied correctly to the test.

The second dimension of the test demonstrates the accuracy of the cosmological assignments to the letters by exhibiting concentrated groups of elements throughout the ordering of them. The grouping of the elements exhibits an irrefutable symmetry that is present using standard transliteration schemes from Hebrew to English. The only change caused as a result of the Threefold Key is the element of fire attributed to the letter Y.

A - air - Air
B - air - Mercury
K - air - Jupiter
A - air - Air
L - air - Libra
G - water - Moon
M - water - Water
O - earth - Capricorn
R - fire - Sun
Y - fire - Fire

X - fire - Sagittarius
R - fire - Sun
P - fire - Mars
S - fire - Sagittarius
T - fire - Leo
O - earth - Capricorn
V - earth - Earth
A - air - Air
L - air - Libra

The grouping of the elements within the test places an emphasis on them as its focal subject. When the numeral 8 is transposed into its corresponding qabalistic attributes, the element of spirit is shown to also be represented. The glad word is produced by unifying the five elements symbolically, an exercise that embodies the prevailing pattern found throughout the book in which the Great Work is defined symbolically as combining the elements. The glad word is YMAVI, with the letters corresponding to fire, water, earth, air, & spirit respectively. The proof that YMAVI is the glad word is determined through its enumeration, which matches that of the combined numbers in the test:

Y + M + A + V + I = 90 + 4 + 1 + 40 + 8 = 143.
4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 = 143.

Y - Fire - XX
M - Water - XII
A - Air - 0
V - Earth - XXI
I - Spirit - XX

http://www.hakela.com/Nexus.html


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ianrons
(@ianrons)
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93,

Here is an excerpt from a work in progress that relates to gematria & II:76 -

On another tack, it might be quite natural to suppose that the letters could be deciphered to reveal some trite phrase such as “The Cipher is Revealed!” However, before anyone gets out their pen and paper, it is probably worth noting that this cipher, if it be such, might not necessarily be crackable; which is not to say that it does not have a solution. Consider the example of the One Time Pad system of cryptography: each letter of the message is “shifted” by a certain number of letters in the alphabet (e.g., ‘G’ becomes ‘H’ if the shift is 1, and ‘R’ becomes ‘Y’ if the shift is 7), but the number of letters by which each succeeding letter is shifted is different every single time, according to the random code written on the One Time Pad; so in fact every letter shift is unknown unless one has the One Time Pad. Therefore every possible “solution” is equally likely, and there is no way to tell which is the correct one.
There is no need, however, to suppose that this cipher is of that type; it is simply necessary to show that it is nevertheless quite impossible to arrive at a demonstrably valid solution of this cipher [using gematria], for the simple reason that the sample ciphertext is so small and the number of different ways of attacking it so vast (limited only by one’s imagination). One might plausibly check against all of the text of The Book of the Law in case part of it was used by the author as a kind of “One Time Pad”, using the text forwards or backwards; or by taking every
nth letter, where n could be any constant, or a function based upon, e.g., the gematric value of each letter in any of the countless types of gematria systems of the English, Hebrew or Greek alphabets.
Then consider the number of possible English gematria systems. Even for the simple ones, where each letter of the alphabet is assigned a number from 1-26 in any order, there are about 4 × 10^26 possible variants (about 6,000 times greater than the estimated number of stars in the visible universe). One can double that number quite easily by adding the number of possible variant gematrias where each letter is assigned in any order according to the Greek method of 1-9 (in steps of 1) then 10-90 (in steps of 10) then 100-800 (in steps of 100), and these are part of a larger set where the letters can be any number from 1-999 in no particular order. The number of elements in that set is 999! ÷ 973! ≈ 7 × 10^77. Then, if one includes all the variants (e.g., Hebrew) where 5 letters have alternate values (999! ÷ 994! ÷ 5! ≈ 8 × 10^15), we have about 6 × 10^93 different systems, which is only about 10 trillion times the estimated number of atoms in the visible universe; some of which might give good results when applied to the text!
I would suggest that, unless the “solution” to this verse be defined as “the least complicated method of arriving at an informative and plausible plaintext result”, which is hardly satisfactory, then (at the very least) we would require additional samples of the ciphertext before any attempt at a solution could be mounted.

93 93/93
Ian


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Has anyone tried any of the versions of the EQ on the other Holy Books? A real EQ should give results on any English word in the same way that Hebrew can. Perhaps if people looked at English as a whole rather than just Liber AL the answer might be obvious.
Best Wishes Robert.


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kidneyhawk
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1993
 

Perhaps if people looked at English as a whole rather than just Liber AL the answer might be obvious

Indeed. I work almost exclusively with the EQ system of David Cherubim and its not very useful to go to his website, type your words into his EQ calculator and then run it against his version of Sepher Sepheroth on the site. I'm not saying this isn't fruitful but it's as limited as using Crowley's tabulations in 777 as the sole guide to working Hebrew Gematria.

What I've found useful has been building my own Gematria "Catalogue" in a systematic orderly fashion and logging in key words there...this, of course, entails words of great PERSONAL significance, but is very powerful in revealing connections on my own Path.

What I've done to "keep it simple" is this:

Take 1 sheet of paper and number side one 0-50. Then number side two 51-99. Run this through a photocopier as a double sided copy, say 30 times. Then go to the top of each page and designate which grouping of 100's-or 1000's it falls into (i.e. My first page is numbers 0-50-the second side is 51-99. Page two is 100-150, its second side is 151-199 etc).

3 hole punch this and put it in a binder, write down words in a small notebook whenever they arise for qabalistic consideration and run the numbers and make the entry when you get back to your binder. It'll fill up FAST.

I realize some of the more computer savvy members here will quickly suggest a more "cyber" based way to handle a Gematria Log-for myself, anyway, I do like the grabbing of my binder and quick flipping to the needed numbers.

Of course, this system can work with ANY Gematria system. The great thing about EQ, though, is that there is less question as to the proper conversion of words from one language to another. And EQ effotlessly "qabalizes" modern terms.

I could go on about WHY I feel Cherubim's EQ is sharply effective but that's another thread.

Ian and Robert, hope I didn't digress too much here-I just have to agree that a personal working with expanding English Gematria past AL (which is MOSTLY where Cherubim's "starter" log focuses) may not only offer some "obvious" answers to THAT book-but to other mysteries, as well.

And now...

...back to the Riddle.

93

Kyle


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priestofal
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This is backwards, but...

The solution to the Cipher will be the name or identity of the person whom Aiwass calls the magickal heir of the Beast. Any gematria that allows for this solution will be a candidate for being the correct gematria for Liber Al.

I would note that in EQ-11 "the regular pattern" = "a first, middle & last name."

LUTZ, I don't know about your RPSTOVAL having the meaning of "are pissed of all", but it was pretty good for coming up with my own moniker, PRST OV AL, or Priest of AL.

I do have a solution. If I were convinced that no one would really care, then I might be inclined to share it. But there's a triple Catch-22 -- If you ask me, then you do care; if you don't ask, then I won't know whether you care or not; if you don't care, then you wouldn't bother telling me.

😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Just to give an alternative view here.

Maybe there is no value in the english alphabet . Maybe its a foolscap.
When you get to a certain level of Praxis, all language is meaningless and not needed. (Chasmal/spoken silence). Sometimes the alphabet is a demon..........


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kidneyhawk
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Posts: 1993
 

Allright, in the Intro to Liber Aleph, there is a quote from Crowley, taken from a Sept 9, 1919 postcard to Achad which reads:

"Your key opens Palace. (Liber) CCXX has opened like a flower. All, solved, even II.76 & III.47."

Does anyone have any further points of reference for how Crowley and/or Achad "Solved" 2:76???

93

Kyle


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"kidneyhawk" wrote:
"Your key opens Palace. (Liber) CCXX has opened like a flower. All, solved, even II.76 & III.47."

Does anyone have any further points of reference for how Crowley and/or Achad "Solved" 2:76???

I have a typed letter (which I paid alot of money for) by Frater Achad, written on May 7th 1948 to Yorke and Handel, where he discusses the key of Liber Legis.... the number 13 and 31, Qoph Nia and the Sapphire Stone. He also mentions this to the University Chancellor of Chicago (Mr.Robert M. Hutching)

Best Wishes

Charles


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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"kidneyhawk" wrote:
"Your key opens Palace. (Liber) CCXX has opened like a flower. All, solved, even II.76 & III.47."

Does anyone have any further points of reference for how Crowley and/or Achad "Solved" 2:76???

93

I wonder too. I've felt nothing but a major disconnect in anything associated with this. I remember reading Liber 31 in high anticipation and going What? at the end of it.

93 93/93


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Cronus
(@cronus)
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Crowley and his colleagues at that time obviously weren't meant to solve II,76 and I don't think anyone so far has made a dent into it's True meaning!

As for III,47 I'm still waiting for the "one cometh after him, whence I say not, who shall discover the Key of it all." - Hopefully it's within my lifetime!

😈


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threefold31
(@threefold31)
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Posts: 447
 
"Cronus" wrote:
Crowley and his colleagues at that time obviously weren't meant to solve II,76 and I don't think anyone so far has made a dent into it's True meaning!

As for III,47 I'm still waiting for the "one cometh after him, whence I say not, who shall discover the Key of it all." - Hopefully it's within my lifetime!

😈

Do what thou wilt

The trouble is that no one agrees on what 'the Key of it all' should look like, or what exactly it should accomplish. Aiwass instructed AC to 'obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet', but did not say what use this should be put to, or how he would know if he had the 'correct' order and value.
Trigrammaton Qabalah considers that in regard to Liber AL,
one should consider 'the Key of it all' to be rearranged as 'all of it the Key',
meaning that the entire sum of Liber CCXX ,when calculated with the correct gematria, will be the key-number to work with.
AFAIK, only the Trigrammaton gematria creates a sum for the whole text that is referenced several times in the text itself, including in the first verse, and in the Cipher of 2:76.
For more on this, one can read my posts on the TEQ.

Love is the law
RLG


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Pertaining to the riddle in Liber Al (Ch.II,76), a technique unknown to Crowley or Fr. Achad, was used to decipher said riddle. A high level Remote Viewer by the name of Aaron C Donahue, remote viewed the riddle as a blind target, and his data can be seen here: ummo.cc/webpage26.html. This event made quite an impact on his life. Donahue has developed a new system called P.A.N. (Practical Application of Non-historical data), increasing his level of clarity. Perhaps further study of his Work would be of interest to members of this forum. 😉


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