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Bertiaux - VGWB  


 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Topic starter  

Received my copy today and everyone who posted about it is entirely correct, its a 'facsimile'. I would honestly say a direct photocopy of the original would be better quality. Its dire, one wonders why Bertiaux signed off on such a huckster item.


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Joined: 15 years ago
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one wonders why Bertiaux signed off on such a huckster item.

Well, that's making assumptions as to how involved he was in the string of decision making which resulted in the final format. I'd suggest approaching the new edition with an eye to creativeness instead of collectability. Get the missing diagrams, art etc and glue them into the book. Write in it-take notes, draw in it. LOL-it's a WORKBOOK! I'm SURE the inscribed copy viewable on Peter Koenig's site would hardly have made the scan were it not for MB's personalizing of it. A book with AC's notes has been made all the more interesting by virtue of his marginalia...I wouldn't shortchange yourself into thinking that your OWN would be any less interesting.

Yes, the fact remains, for the time and effort, a better package could have been put together and that's what everyone was hoping for with the preorders. Still, it might just keep all those original versions up in value and since you've now got it-you may as well go to town on it and do some Voodoo!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Topic starter  

Hmmm, well I'm actually approaching it with an eye to value-for-money. Its a bit like say, buying a movie on DVD and being told that, yeah, the camera shakes, the volume goes up and down and theres missing scenes, but hey, act them out yourself!

Although its almost, ALMOST, worth the price alone to read the endorsement on the back from one "Oberon Zell-Ravenheart, Headmaster, Grey School of Wizardry" - I'm presuming Dumbledore was busy?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Nicely said.
The edition,which i pre-ordered in january. finally arrived and although the quality is not the best; a quick thumbthrough convinced me of money well spent.
By the way I ripped this book in digital form months ago but never really attempted to read it due to the fact that i just cannot get into computer supported book reading; that sucks


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4119
 
"loscult" wrote:
Its a bit like say, buying a movie on DVD and being told that, yeah, the camera shakes, the volume goes up and down and theres missing scenes, but hey, act them out yourself!

If the movie was promoted as a workbook (an interactive work-movie, I suppose) then that would perhaps be a reasonable comparison.

"loscult" wrote:
Although its almost, ALMOST, worth the price alone to read the endorsement on the back from one "Oberon Zell-Ravenheart, Headmaster, Grey School of Wizardry" - I'm presuming Dumbledore was busy?

Yes, he was.

I hope that those who are dissatisfied with the "new and expanded edition" will contact Red Wheel Weiser and tell them so; otherwise, they'll just keep doing this sort of thing.


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

How this "new edition" is bounded? I have Magickal Childe edition and, alas, the quality of bounding of this one is very bad.

Love is the law, love under will

HPK


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

Paperback I'm afraid.

And Michaels right, I do intend to contact Weiser.

But wrong about viewing it as a 'workbook' to get over the poor quality of the edition - the author intended it to be illustrated, it isnt, therefore its incomplete. Although such a spin might suit Bertiaux when defending something he either sanctioned or wasnt bothered enough about to exercise some quality control.

"The money will roll right in..."


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4119
 
"loscult" wrote:
But wrong about viewing it as a 'workbook' to get over the poor quality of the edition - the author intended it to be illustrated, it isnt, therefore its incomplete. Although such a spin might suit Bertiaux when defending something he either sanctioned or wasnt bothered enough about to exercise some quality control.

You're of course right to take the matter up with Weiser. I hope more people do. You might also ask them how much Michael Bertiaux had to do with the edition. The lack of any new material would suggest that he wasn't involved, but I'm sure Weiser will enlighten you.

Aum418 suggested in another thread that Weiser should republish Grant. God forbid.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Amusing.

Imagine, if you will, a score of bookbuyers content with pretty bindings, clean decorative pages, and spotless dust jackets over the actual usefulness and convenience of the contents; if they could read them anyway.

I am glad this was re-published in some workable form for those without proper access to the copies laying around gathering dust in some mystics den to bathroom library they haven't even the courage to read 10 titles out of.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Topic starter  

Hmmm, you're right, it takes a lot of courage to read a book. Prey tell, how do you muster such strength for the terrifying works of Bertiaux?

Hoping that such an important work is reprinted as intended by the author is hardly ignoring the usefulness and 'convenience' of the contents, whatever the latter is. It IS the contents, thats the problem, parts of it are missing, do keep up.

But you're probably off to don a fedora, grab a bullwhip and go wading into the depths of some seriously scary stuff - whats on the bedside table tonight that mere mortals havent the courage to read? (I personally find the works of Lon Duquette terrifying, but for entirely different reasons I suspect)

I presume from the link in your post that you're a member of the Theorte Ekstasis OTO group. I note they sell magnets
http://www.cafepress.com/theorteekstasis.42396505
'Rectangular stickers'
http://www.cafepress.com/theorteekstasis.42396526
and a handsome tote bag
http://www.cafepress.com/theorteekstasis.42396528

I only wish I had the courage to use such a bag or put such a magnet on my fridge. Sadly, I do not.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5329
 
"loscult" wrote:
Hmmm, you're right, it takes a lot of courage to read a book. Prey tell, how do you muster such strength for the terrifying works of Bertiaux?... do keep up... But you're probably off to don a fedora, grab a bullwhip and go wading into the depths of some seriously scary stuff - whats on the bedside table tonight that mere mortals havent the courage to read?

Loscult, if you do feel the need to resort to sarcasm to make your point, it's possible that you might find it more effective if it's not slapped on with a trowel.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

I really would have prefered this edition to be complete in the sense of adding the illustrations.

However, its pertinent to point out that the illustrations in question were not published with 'any' edition of the Workbook and are only found in a certain magazine. If this is what loscult means by 'missing content', well it was always missing.

How about you get to actually reading the material?

I find this work enormously interesting from an O.T.O. perspective.

I hope it helps me sell more magnets...


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4119
 
"KCh" wrote:
Imagine, if you will, a score of bookbuyers content with pretty bindings, clean decorative pages, and spotless dust jackets over the actual usefulness and convenience of the contents; if they could read them anyway.

KCh, you are satirising beyond the point of usefulness here. It is not a question of "pretty bindings" or of "clean decorative pages", but of producing a book which does justice to the contents.

The function of a publisher is not to just batter stuff out - to publish whatever the author presents - but to collaborate with the author in order to optimise the material. "Pretty bindings" are, believe you me, one of the last considerations.

"KCh" wrote:
I am glad this was re-published in some workable form for those without proper access to the copies laying around gathering dust in some mystics den to bathroom library they haven't even the courage to read 10 titles out of.

The tenor of this thread is that whilst republication is welcome, what a pity the chance was missed to produce the expanded and revised edition that the publisher led us to believe was in the wings, and which the work clearly merited. Frankly I doubt that many "mystics" - clearly a swear-word to you - would have secreted this book in their "dens". And just why, for god's sake, would said mystics have books that they haven't the courage to read???

Rhetoric is a wonderful thing. Try a) not to abuse it, and b) not to be carried on its wings beyond the borders of credibility.

Fraternal regards,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"MichaelStaley" wrote:
"loscult" wrote:
But wrong about viewing it as a 'workbook' to get over the poor quality of the edition - the author intended it to be illustrated, it isnt, therefore its incomplete. Although such a spin might suit Bertiaux when defending something he either sanctioned or wasnt bothered enough about to exercise some quality control.

You're of course right to take the matter up with Weiser. I hope more people do. You might also ask them how much Michael Bertiaux had to do with the edition. The lack of any new material would suggest that he wasn't involved, but I'm sure Weiser will enlighten you.

Aum418 suggested in another thread that Weiser should republish Grant. God forbid.

"God forbid?" :lol:!! Yes, god forbid someone other than you and the other few people who have Grant books would have the ability to read what he said without paying absurd prices...


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
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"Aum418" wrote:
"God forbid?" :lol:!! Yes, god forbid someone other than you and the other few people who have Grant books would have the ability to read what he said...

I think, sweetheart, that there are a great many people who have books by Grant, who have read them, and have had their thinking transformed as a result. I want to see the widest possible circulation of books by Kenneth Grant, but I also want that work to be presented in such a way that does justice to it. Mind-boggling, isn't it?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"wolf354" wrote:
Greetings
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

"loscult" wrote:
(I personally find the works of Lon Duquette terrifying, but for entirely different reasons I suspect)

Excuse my curiosity... but I can't resist asking you what are you're reasons for seeing Duquette the way you do.

Just to make clearer what I think, I find Duquette a very good introduction to Thelema... but just the introduction. Personnaly I don't take very seriously his interpretations of LBRP (and other rituals) and many times is books become a condensed "copy & paste" from Crowley's originals.

Love is the law, love under will
Best regards

Although this is not addressed to me, I am also very wary of DuQuette. I will grant initially that his Chicken Qabalah is excellent and humorous but his other works are largely, as said before, cut and paste from Crowley's works. The Magick of Crowley is almost entirely cut and paste (he devoted a whole section to cutting and pasting parts of Liber Samekh next to the ritual and then reprinting the ritual as a whole... trying to fill the pages much?), the end of the Key of Solomon is cut and paste from the Goetia, the Enochian Sex Magick is largely an expansion of Liber Chanokh with very little good information on sex (say enochian, have sex) and such. I found the Understanding the Thoth Tarot a nice attempt that fell short (all teh Small Cards were pretty much copy and paste formulas). Aside from this, he seems like a nice guy except I cannot agree with him when he says things like this:

Ashé: Almost as misunderstood as the man is his dual mottos. Please explain the meaning behind "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" and "Love is the law, love under will."

DuQuette: As these are quotes from Liber AL vel Legis (The Book of the Law) it is inappropriate for me or anyone else to presume to interpret any passage of the text for another individual.

Anyone else? Even Crowley? What about the 3 commentaries by Crowley - does he think people should not read them or that they are incorrect? Even he cannot 'presume to interpret'? If so, why does he give an interpretation literally one question later?

(side note: How can they be misunderstood if anyone's interpreation of them is OK? If one takes Lon's reply seriously, he implies taht the question itself is a mistake in that there can be no interpretation that is 'wrong' because no one can 'presume to interpret any passage...')

He goes on to contradict himself by explaining a vague tenet of Thelema: " Thelemic philosophy (if we can call it that) posits that each individual is responsible for his or her own life. This is an awesome responsibility, It’s so much easier to surrender that responsibility to the family or the state or the church. For those not ready for such accountability even the thought of others living in such freedom is a terrifying nightmare."
This is not only interpreting Liber AL but trying to superimpose these ideas onto it which I dont even agree with. Where does Thelemic philosophy posit this? In many places it seems especially 'irresponsible' in many senses...

This kind of hypocrisy and short sightedness makes me cringe. He is saying very bluntly that he deosnt think any kind of passage in Liber AL should be interpreted but where did he get his ideas of Thelema from? If no one including him has no right to tell another about THelema, what about the hundreds and hundreds of ideas of Thelemic philosophy implied and outrightly stated in his books?

If we say absolutely no one can interpret the book for anyone else, it would be completely useless and meaningless. If there isnt even an extremely basic foundation for understanding Thelema, then it isnt Thelema at all; it is whoever-is-reading-Liber-AL's interpretation. This kind of attitude seems to have arisen around the McMurtry era as anyone who has read the writings of Frater Achad, CF Russell, Motta, or any other disciple will know that they not only studied Liber AL and wrote their opinions (to be seen by the public) but they worked off of a generally understood foundation of what Thelema means (as delineated by the Beast, which makes perfect sense to me). This kind of attitude needs to be weeded out, for keeping our interpretations to ourselves will result in our isolated, non integrated thought patterns. Ideas are tempered and perfected as a gem is created from rubbing the edges - people need to debate, share their ideas, have them criticized, criticize others ideas, etc. Without this, everyone is in their own delusional world of their own interpretations that they feel are completely immune from any kind of criticism or even suggestion.

"MichaelStaley" wrote:
"Aum418" wrote:
"God forbid?" :lol:!! Yes, god forbid someone other than you and the other few people who have Grant books would have the ability to read what he said...

I think, sweetheart, that there are a great many people who have books by Grant, who have read them, and have had their thinking transformed as a result. I want to see the widest possible circulation of books by Kenneth Grant, but I also want that work to be presented in such a way that does justice to it. Mind-boggling, isn't it?

I do too, which is EXACTLY why I said it should be reproduced by someone like Weiser (I did not outright say WEISER SHOULD PUBLISH GRANT). Calling me sweetheart is a strange kind of address which I assme is meant to be demeaning as a parent to a child, no? Either way, the whole point of me suggesting that Grant be published by someone other than the people who cant get his books out for less than 60 bucks is so other people who dont want to waste away their money on some book (and he wrote quite a few... that is a bit of money to spend on someone that you are not entirely sure is worth investigating). Not all of us are publishers of Starfire magazine or people who have 200 bucks to blow on expensive occult books. In fact, I did read two of his books that I managed to get for 40 dollars each (what a deal, right?) and found some very interesting tidbits and a lot of baseless rambles about Qabalistic correspondences (and some amazingly great ones) and seemingly groundless assertions abound. Although this is my opinion, I still would like to see his work be more available so I and others could more deeply understand his message. Your passive aggressive and apparently smarmy insults like "mind boggling isnt it?" arent really appreciated, by the way.

65 & 210,
111-418


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Proteus
(@proteus)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 243
 

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

He is saying very bluntly that he deosnt think any kind of passage in Liber AL should be interpreted but where did he get his ideas of Thelema from?

Without this, everyone is in their own delusional world of their own interpretations

I'm not sure, but Duquette may have been proferring the idea that the law as communicated to Crowley was intended for Crowley alone. It's a bit odd to speculate the motives of a living person. Why not ask him why you think he is so inconsistent with your understanding of Thelema? I'm sure you would both benefit from such an exchange of ideas. It is possible that the Law as communicated to Crowley was intended for Crowley alone.

I believe that Crowley was a prophet. I also believe that each of us has the ability and responsibility to obtain gnosis for ourselves. Perhaps this message, and not the promulgation of dogma, was really the function of Crowley's prophethood?

John

Love is the law, love under will.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4119
 
"Aum418" wrote:
Calling me sweetheart is a strange kind of address which I assme is meant to be demeaning as a parent to a child, no?

It was affectionate.

"Aum418" wrote:
Either way, the whole point of me suggesting that Grant be published by someone other than the people who cant get his books out for less than 60 bucks is so other people who dont want to waste away their money on some book (and he wrote quite a few... that is a bit of money to spend on someone that you are not entirely sure is worth investigating).

This is an argument for producing things as cheaply as possible regardless of quality, which is a rubbish argument; for an illustration, see the subject of this thread. I would in future like to publish Grant in a paperback as well as a hardback edition, which will present a cheaper option; but as a publisher I will never churn out substandard work - that is, work that is not well-presented, that is on crap paper, etc.

"Aum418" wrote:
Your passive aggressive and apparently smarmy insults like "mind boggling isnt it?" arent really appreciated, by the way.

"Passive aggressive" seems like an oxymoron to me. There were no insults, "smarmy" or otherwise - not for the first time, you are projecting an atmosphere that wasn't there.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Mick,

I say stick with what you do best. I absolutely love the format of the Grant books. Their colours and artwork on the dust jackets are amazing....especially 'Hecates Fountain'. I have noticed over the years that my guests are always drawn to the interesting pescis and other strange nuisian sigils on the spines of the dust jackets!

When this happens, it is like I have a moment of clauridience watching them as they look at the books on the shelf..and some invisible ectoplasm of soliloquy speaks around them...'weird and strange'.

They are wonderful books!

Best Wishes
Charles


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Ahh, if only Fulgur had published it eh ?
Cosmic Meditation is immaculately bound.(apart from whoever glued the colour plate in the inside cover being slightly pissed !! :o) )


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4119
 
"BlueKephra" wrote:
Ahh, if only Fulgur had published it eh ?

Yes, I think that most of us think that - apart from the "pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap" chaps amongst us, more used perhaps to selling fridge magnets.

😯


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

To Kch - yes the images were always missing, again something that has been mentioned but, to state the obvious, that doesnt mean it should still be printed with them missing. It was orginally intended for the images to be there, they are part of the book. The new edition is being touted as 'revised and expanded' after all.

As for 'actually reading it', son, I think its clear what this thread is about.

And I'm not surprised you find it interesting from an 'OTO' perspective, the Caliphate has been signing off on shoddy books with half-arsed content for years now.

To wolf354, and with no personal animus to your opinion, I find Duquette's work to be about as legitimate as Prince Harry.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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Joined: 17 years ago
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Loscult,

"loscult" wrote:
And I'm not surprised you find it interesting from an 'OTO' perspective, the Caliphate has been signing off on shoddy books with half-arsed content for years now.

Because you've been here for quite some time and because your posts used to be quite interesting on occasion, rather than delete this post, I'm going to give you an opportunity to justify this apparently partisan remark.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

Well starting randomly, theres the Equinox 'Volume 10', or one could check out the additional content included in Magick, the questionable introductions to most of his works inserted by the caliphate (who once made Grant sticker a book in the US making clear his interpretations were his own!), the cheap and nasty print quality of most, if not all, of the major works and the equally tatty bindings and covers not to mention poor reproductions of illustrations in many of the works.

And whats suddenly wrong with being partisan? Not much would get done in life without it.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Proteus" wrote:
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

He is saying very bluntly that he deosnt think any kind of passage in Liber AL should be interpreted but where did he get his ideas of Thelema from?

Without this, everyone is in their own delusional world of their own interpretations

I'm not sure, but Duquette may have been proferring the idea that the law as communicated to Crowley was intended for Crowley alone.

That is an interesting idea but I did not get that idea from what he was saying - the way he said it implied that not even Crowley could interpret it (except for himself).

It's a bit odd to speculate the motives of a living person. Why not ask him why you think he is so inconsistent with your understanding of Thelema? I'm sure you would both benefit from such an exchange of ideas.

I actually have talked to him in person, but had not read that interview before I had met him twice. I would indeed like to ask him a few things.

It is possible that the Law as communicated to Crowley was intended for Crowley alone.

If that is true, then the Book of the Law itself is wrong about 'the Law is for all' and such. In a way I can see how this is true in that it could be 'mostly' intended for Crowley as there are many lines directly referring to him and his knowledge, but I am sure everyone here has realized the sublimity and efficacy of the lines in Liber AL.

I believe that Crowley was a prophet. I also believe that each of us has the ability and responsibility to obtain gnosis for ourselves. Perhaps this message, and not the promulgation of dogma, was really the function of Crowley's prophethood?

Establishing a foundation of what Thelema actually is is not promulgation of dogma, its philosophy... its common sense. Otherwise, we cant even put a label to Thelema, because each word means whatever people want it to mean (and I am sure that people have looked at a line and then realized or read a different interpretation that was almost opposite or completely different from their own). I think there should be discussion on some of the finer points of Liber AL but I do not think a dogma should form around them BUT if people cannot agree on what Do what thou wilt' and 'Love is the law' mean, then the entire system isnt a system at all.

To MichaelStaley: 'Passive aggressive' isnt an oxymoron (its an extremely common phrase, actually), Im not your sweetheart (that was seriously affection? Ive never met you and I certainly am not on any romantic terms with you... sounds sarcastic to me) and your 'mind boggling' comment was at least sarcastic and not really appreciated, but I am still fine with you saying such things. You trying to pretend like I am projecting onto you is kind of funny - the sweetheart and mind boggling comments were really completely serious and not sarcasm? - if so, then I apologize for not knowing why I am your sweetheart and why that is so mind-boggling. Also, honestly, its not 'an argument for producing things as cheaply as possible regardless of quality' (it seems like the book this thread is about is a good example of that, no?), its an argument to get the books out to people who dont want to pay $60-300 (or more) for another occult book... not everyone is a Grant fanatic who will pay hundreds for some book - is that too hard to understand? The argument if anything, is to strike a balance between 'quality' (books can still be printed with good quality for low prices) and price. Thats all.

210 & 65,
111-418


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Everyone seems to have gone off-topic a bit here...

Anyway, i am curious to know if Bertiaux will get money for this reproduction of the book. Did he have say in its republishing? Or was it left to the publishers to decide? Just curious.

Some of the posts in this thread have been critical of publishers in general but its very difficult to get publishers interested in publishing occult books for a small niche market. So we should be supportive of small publishers who do print occult books.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

I think everyone IS supportive of small publishers but Weiser are far from being a small publisher, they're quite large with a hefty turnover and a large roster of, ahem, 'talent'.


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
 

I was briefly tempted by this but it seems like there is no real point (I have access to the original, with pictures, I just don't own it....) Would definitely echo hawthornrussell's questions.

Aum418 - if you don't want to spend the money to see if Grant is of interest why not try a library???? "Try before you buy". It doesn't even need to be a lending library if all you want to do is dip in to check - try copywrite libraries...or look for a friend who'll show you theirs 🙄 .

(Or manifest them/the money........you know, magick.)


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James
(@james)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 251
 
"amadan-De" wrote:
Aum418 - if you don't want to spend the money to see if Grant is of interest why not try a library???? "Try before you buy". It doesn't even need to be a lending library

(Or manifest them/the money........you know, magick.)

I can vouch for this method Swiss Cottage Library in London has both Outside the Circles of Time and Hecate's Fountain.

Westminster too have some and by Fulgur press. They are open to suggestions for new purchases too!

.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"amadan-De" wrote:
I was briefly tempted by this but it seems like there is no real point (I have access to the original, with pictures, I just don't own it....) Would definitely echo hawthornrussell's questions.

Aum418 - if you don't want to spend the money to see if Grant is of interest why not try a library???? "Try before you buy". It doesn't even need to be a lending library if all you want to do is dip in to check - try copywrite libraries...or look for a friend who'll show you theirs 🙄 .

(Or manifest them/the money........you know, magick.)

Libraries have Kenneth Grant? I have been to libraries that have one Crowley book, let alone Grant books... Interesting idea, though, that I will try. But also, what if I do like it? I really do not want to buy a book for 200 dollars; even 40 dollars is pushing it I feel.

I manifest money through work, as do most people. I am not a fan of using goetic demons to obtain money (specifically), and I am not adept at the OTO IX degree weapon enough to pretend like it works.

Ill stop posting about this now, as it is off-topic.

65 & 210,
111-418


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

93
AUM418:

Otherwise, we cant even put a label to Thelema, because each word means whatever people want it to mean (and I am sure that people have looked at a line and then realized or read a different interpretation that was almost opposite or completely different from their own).

"Each of us receives any abstract or general notion in the context of the individual mind, and there fore understand and apply it in our individual ways."
"Even the most carefully defined philosophical or mathmatical concept, which we are sure does not contain more than we put into it, is nevertheless more than we assume. Every concept in your mind has it's own (individual) psychic associations. While such associations may vary in intensity, they are capable of changing the "normal" character of that concept."
Man and his Symbols-Carl Jung

Historically, you've shown yourself to be such a proponent of Jung's, using such terms as 'projection', 'anima' and 'animus'...I thought I'd pass on some words from the horses mouth.

93 93/93


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
 

Libraries have Kenneth Grant?

Not as much as they used to - witness the fact that recent Grant books on ebay have included several 'ex-library' copies. These are either stolen or, just as likely, withdrawn from library stock because not enough people are borrowing them. Use it or lose it.
Don't know where you are in the world but in the UK any library is in theory an access point to the entire library system and any book held in that system can be ordered. In the past they would even purchase a book if it was not in the lending system, don't know if this is still policy now, but see James' post above.
How about we all request the VGWB? Bump up the demand and maybe the publishers will respond to market forces and produce a good new version.

As for

what if I do like it? I really do not want to buy a book for 200 dollars; even 40 dollars is pushing it

We have a saying in these parts, "If it's for ye it'll no go past ye." If it is your Will to own them it'll happen. Wont it?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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The first KG book I ever read was Aleister Crowley And The Hidden God,more than 20 years ago.I borrowed it from Larkhall library, a small Scottish town. I'd be surprised if it was still there.
The inter-library loan system still exists and I'm about to use it to get a hold of some rather rare toadskin reading.....


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 Anonymous
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On Library's carrying Kenneth Grant: For what it's worth, the Library at MacMaster University in Hamilton Ontario, Canada had a signed edition of Outside the Circles of Time. They also had a copy of The Magical Revival. There's several Crowley book's edited by Grant in the Toronto Refference Library, as well as an AOS 2nd or 3rd edition in the Special Collections Department. There's also a library in Ontario that has Hecate's Fountain which a friend of mine borrowed using the Inter-Library loan system,
It's interesting to see where these books turn up.
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