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Shiva
(@shiva)
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"jamie barter" wrote:
... the end of the Mayan calendar nearly a year ago now.

Dec 2012 was nearly two years ago now. My, how time flies 😮


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jamie barter
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"Shiva" wrote:
"jamie barter" wrote:
... the end of the Mayan calendar nearly a year ago now.

Dec 2012 was nearly two years ago now. My, how time flies 😮

Yes, time is doing some funny things these days – I’m sure it’s not just me - why, it only seems the other day when it was 1994!  (Perhaps the effects of some 'timequake' are more subtle than might at first have been feared?! 😀 )

Tick, tock !?
N Joy


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Horemakhet
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Killing Joke have a new album coming our way soon. From what I gather the recording process is  finished, & the band are ready to go out again. I caught them on their last NA tour to promote their Singles box-set, & it was such a joy to see them still together, doing what they do best.


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Anonymous
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"there's so many hungry but I'm gonna turn a blind eye...rejoice and kill your heart"; I guesse he thought he was being "Thelemic" there at the height of the LIVE AID campaign.


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jamie barter
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"david" wrote:
"there's so many hungry but I'm gonna turn a blind eye...rejoice and kill your heart"; I guesse he thought he was being "Thelemic" there at the height of the LIVE AID campaign.

And I wondered why I didn’t notice Killing Joke in the line-up for Live Aid!?  You seem to have provided a clue here, david, though I'm not so sure about a lack of compassion necessarily being "Thelemic" when it is after all the 'vice' of kings.

Cf. also perhaps the monumentally sarcastic (but in a good way!) “We Care A Lot” by Faith No More?

We care a lot about disasters, fires, floods, and killer bees,
About the NASA shuttle falling in the sea.
We care a lot about starvation and the food that Live Aid buys. […]

We care a lot about the smack ‘n’ crack ‘n’ flak that hits the streets,
We care a lot about the welfare of all you boys and girls:
We care a lot about you people ‘cause we're out to save the world.

(Well, it’s a dirty job but someone’s gotta do it.
Oh, it’s a dirty job but someone’s gotta do it.
Said, it’s a dirty job but someone’s gotta do it. …[etc.])

Tralalaciously yours  ♫
Norma N Joy Conquest


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Anonymous
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I don't think Faith No More were being sarcastic.  I heard that Coleman converted to Catholicism.


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jamie barter
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"david" wrote:
I don't think Faith No More were being sarcastic.

No, it was me being sarcastic there david.  They were of course being quite genuine; one can tell by listening to the expression they put into their lyrics. 😮

"david" wrote:
I heard that Coleman converted to Catholicism.

That seems almost as unlikely as – um, Leah Hirsig - or, um - Charles ‘Achad’ Jones, and, um…

This is all hearsay, though, anyway; does anyone have any actual evidence?

N Joy


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jamie barter
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"jamie barter" wrote:
"david" wrote:
I don't think Faith No More were being sarcastic.

No, it was me being sarcastic there david.  They were of course being quite genuine; one can tell by listening to the expression they put into their lyrics. 😮

I thought I would just clarify the above a little as misunderstandings can so easily take place, can’t they!?  As can be found by an examination of the lyrics or listening to the track in question, “We Care A Lot “was one of the first songs or pieces of writing to address the contemporary phenomenon of “compassion fatigue”, now a lot more prevalent than it even was in the mid-80s.  There are an abundance of ‘worthy causes’ or ‘disasters’ to exercise a pull on the private purse, irrespective of what our national representatives – governments – are doing about them, and just by their nature it isn’t not possible to satisfy all of them, with the Virgin “space tourist” shuttle and Ebola “scare” being the latest additions to the list.

Though I am not aware of Killing Joke themselves directly addressing this phenomenon in any of their songs, perhaps I might have missed something.  Maybe one of their hardcore fans could enlighten everyone?  And ditto with all the Abramelin and Catholicism business too.

N Joy


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Anonymous
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Why don't you google the Catholicism  thing?  Coleman was a twisted man Jamie incessantly making fascistic, naff, sad egotistical statements.


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jamie barter
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It’s lucky for you Jaz doesn’t know where you live, david, as on past ‘record’ I don’t think he takes too kindly to personal criticism!

I remember reading an account of his visiting the offices of the NME (I think, maybe it was Sounds) with malicious damage in mind in the ‘80s after some journo had written a KJ review which didn’t go down too well with him, with the result that he and/or his confederates uploaded a bucket full of offal and maggots they’d thoughtfully brought along with them for the express purpose of tipping over the offending writer’s desk… (Needless to say, she was unimpressed.)

Leaving that aside, though, I am not aware of the allegations you mention,

"david" wrote:
Why don't you google the Catholicism  thing?  Coleman was a twisted man Jamie incessantly making fascistic, naff, sad egotistical statements.

which don’t portray J.C. in the ‘rosiest’ of lights.  You are obviously not a member of the fan club, but that is still no reason to slag the guy off without any foundation.  Not that I am making any direct correlation between A.C. and J.C., but it comes across as the same sort of muck-slinging based on little or no real evidence. (And as Los would say= evidence is paramount.)  I don’t know – maybe these allegations are true, and then again, mebbe not?  Perhaps to save myself and others a bit of unnecessary time & effort on the google trail you might perhaps cite the relevant references here, there’s a good chap!?  (Unless you admit to fantasising & making up the whole thing, of course  😮 ?)

“… Try to be honest –and look what’cha get!” (from the Wardance ♫)
N Joy


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jamie barter
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"david" wrote:
Why don't you google the Catholicism  thing?   Coleman was a twisted man Jamie incessantly making fascistic, naff, sad egotistical statements.

There’s a very simple answer to this one, david.  It’s cuz I’m a big lazy bastard, and it’s a lot more fun to try to get you to do all the work for everyone instead.  Are you going to do that arduous task though, as the moral onus is on you as well?  Remember now – you need just one brief but illustrative example each of Jaz (a) being twisted (b) fascistic (c) naff (d) sad (e) egotistical (f) becoming a Catholic and (g) doing the Abra-Melin.  That will do nicely.  Otherwise, there will be literally a black mark on your copy-book for muck spreading.  Just think, though: I will award you a gold star for effort if you manage to do it.

This will boost your end-of-term scores considerably, that may be in need of bolstering.
N Joy


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Anonymous
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I don't think I ever discussed Coleman and abramelin did I?  Everything else I can provide examples yeah.


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jamie barter
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"david" wrote:
I don't think I ever discussed Coleman and abramelin did I?

No, I just thought that if you were diligent enough to provide examples of (a) to (f) you might as well carry on the good work and do a bit of research on (g) as well. 

"david" wrote:
Everything else I can provide examples yeah.

Well go on then – step to it!!  Btw, don’t include the frequent instances where J.C.’s being objectionable as a deliberate wind-up, of course – that doesn’t count.

(It was Falcon in Reply #47 who mentioned the Abramelin, incidentally.)

N Joy


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Anonymous
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I think the catholocism conversion used to be on his wiki page but now isn't.  Maybe some christian disinfo activist hacked the account and told a lie.  My friend told me the story too so he must've read the same thing.  The fascist and naffness thing is subjective and I wont be wasting my time asking you to look up some Melody Maker interview from way back when.  Coleman did however cite that nasty Mr Gadaffi as a hero of his etc etc.


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jamie barter
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This is a rather disappointing response, david.  (I take it there isn’t be any more to come.)  I had hoped for something a bit better when you promised

"david" wrote:
Everything else I can provide examples yeah.

but it was obviously a mirage.

The reason I asked for further clarification is that, whatever one thinks of his music(k) or personality, Jaz comes over as an enigmatic individual – largely of his own choosing and creation, I might add.  But still.  In view of this, you may have been able to throw a bit of light upon aspects of his presentation which struck you, which all the same may have been perceptive and nevertheless carried a bit of weight.  It would have been even better if you could have also introduced how this might tie in with the legacy of A.C., which after all is what this website is concerned with.  (=I would have given you ‘bonus’ points for that. :D)

However I must say that the fact that you haven’t provided it is not altogether unexpected, and shows that in the end you are just presenting some personally held belief for some reason: for some reason you feel strongly enough about J.C. here to want to negatively slag him off.

Now I hold no particular brief for him or Killing Joke – I personally like their music(k), or did do a lot in the previous century.  I must admit I was a bit disappointed when I saw them again recently, but that may have been down to an off night on their or my part (he said charitably).  However I digress.  You have also done the same thing recently with Graham Bond, Jay-Z and someone else whose name I can’t remember, whilst seeming to praise one Joey Sh!thead.  Maybe this suggests that with regard to your true will you have a lost career somewhere as a music critic, but this fascinating side avenue must remain outside the orbit of discussion of the Aleister Crowley Society.  As it is, nobody is particularly interested in your opinion musical or otherwise (any more than anyone else) if you don’t also back it up with some sort of concrete evidence bolstering your point – this “evidence” which elsewhere you and Los are trumpeting is so important for understanding things in this workaday world.

Your reply has shown the following:

(a) JZ being twisted:  Not answered or even addressed or touched upon whatsoever.

(b) "fascistic" & (c) "naff":  You now admit this is subjective opinion only. Fair enough, but then so is everything else.  What you then have to decide is, is it worthwhile enough to mention.  And then, why.

(d) "sad" & (e) "egotistical" - see (a) above

(f) "becoming a Catholic."  You answer, but the end result is negligible relying to a large part on the hearsay of a friend, and you needn’t really have bothered.  No, you shouldn’t have, really. (And I really must be going now…)

So, all in all rather a waste of time.  You had the chance to have made some reparations and done the honourable thing, which you ducked & dived & hedged not cleverly but cackhandedly & incompetently, if your intention was to have come across with some sort of startling penetrating insight.  But better luck next time, perhaps.

N Joy


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Anonymous
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JZ twisted?  Did I?

Killing Joke fascistic.  I already told you about his admiration for Gaddaffi and his disdain for Live Aid.  Coleman just smacked of a typical punk-type who read Nietzsche and half understands it thinking he has to be this opinionated weirdo adamant about the coming apocalypse which never happened. I mean what more do you want?  That isn't "sad"?  You also misquoted me as I fucking told you that I read the catholocism conversion for myself in his wiki page but a recent look shows its no longer there.  Now if that means I was a victim of disinfo then hey have some sympathy.

For what its worth I love KJ and know that they were very innovative and more influential on bands than given credit for.  Colemans personality etc is off putting but I love Wagner too and his rabid racism was a bit weird.


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jamie barter
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“Someone explain to me the mystery of this man”…

No, not Aleister Crowley.  No, not even Jaz Coleman here.  But you, david…!!

"david" wrote:
I already told you about his admiration for Gaddaffi and his disdain for Live Aid. 

No, you didn’t really tell me.  You said something in about as many words as what you’ve done here, conveying about the same amount of information.

"david" wrote:
You also misquoted me as I fucking told you that I read the catholocism conversion for myself in his wiki page

I have no recollection or idea what you’re going on about, and would appreciate you pointing out exactly where that occurred.  Meanwhile, there’s no point in getting so “het up”…  Go and take a cold shower?

N Joy


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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Topic starter  

Moderator's Note

"david" wrote:
You also misquoted me as I fucking told you that I read the catholocism conversion for myself in his wiki page but a recent look shows its no longer there.

Last warning, David. LAShTAL.COM has developed over the decades to become a safe environment, a community devoted to information relating to the legacy of Aleister Crowley. Your attitude is frequently abrasive, passive aggressive, confrontational and woefully ill-informed. Perhaps worst of all, it is unfriendly. Please re-read the Guidelines and ask yourself whether you wouldn't find another web site more in keeping with your personality.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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Anonymous
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"lashtal" wrote:
Moderator's Note

"david" wrote:
You also misquoted me as I fucking told you that I read the catholocism conversion for myself in his wiki page but a recent look shows its no longer there.

Last warning, David. LAShTAL.COM has developed over the decades to become a safe environment, a community devoted to information relating to the legacy of Aleister Crowley. Your attitude is frequently abrasive, passive aggressive, confrontational and woefully ill-informed. Perhaps worst of all, it is unfriendly. Please re-read the Guidelines and ask yourself whether you wouldn't find another web site more in keeping with your personality.

I use citations 95% of the time nowadays and my scepticism receives hostility a lot of which takes enormous amounts of tolerance and patience to deal with in a balanced manner particularly as scepticism is not entirely the mainstream Thelemic thought at the moment.  It's hard not to become smug and develop a one eyed man in kingdom of the blind syndrome and I try to remember that.  Everyone is equal on the magical level.  Debates become heated but it's not always me who makes them heated and ultimately I dispute points not people.  Ultimately  there is no need for personal attack here and I don't think I have ever insulted anyone in the course of debate (argument) but I do have a sarcastic sense of humour...where I'm from this is the norm I must remember that.  Sorry if I offended ultimately I agree with Crowley when he says his aim was for men to be kinder to each other.  I ask you does anyone make snipey unproductive comments on the threads?  I could name names if you want. 

My main purpose here (and this is verified by my post history; please have  a look) is to retrieve information which I have done and that info has been valuable to me.  Thanks for that. 


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Horemakhet
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On the XXVth Gathering dvd there is a 25 minute interview with Jaz. Amongst many other topics he addresses his "Catholicism", by spelling out *G*N*O*S*T*I*C*. I don't think that I need to spell out here which organisation he belongs to. As for recent allegations brought forth which may/may not incriminate this English gentleman in some pseudo-Thelemic court, I rest my case on the evidence of his lyrics throughout the 1980's, & specifically in 1985. This is, clearly, the work of a man in love with the world & fighting against injustice on Thelemic principles.


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Anonymous
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"Horemakhet" wrote:
On the XXVth Gathering dvd there is a 25 minute interview with Jaz. Amongst many other topics he addresses his "Catholicism", by spelling out *G*N*O*S*T*I*C*. I don't think that I need to spell out here which organisation he belongs to. As for recent allegations brought forth which may/may not incriminate this English gentleman in some pseudo-Thelemic court, I rest my case on the evidence of his lyrics throughout the 1980's, & specifically in 1985. This is, clearly, the work of a man in love with the world & fighting against injustice on Thelemic principles.

"Live like kings and queens" as follows; "there's so many hungry ... but i'm gonna turn a blind eye ..coz I got to live now..rejoice and kill your heart coz I say".  Sure, this is fighting injustice.


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Horemakhet
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"david" wrote:
"Live like kings and queens" as follows; "there's so many hungry ... but i'm gonna turn a blind eye ..coz I got to live now..rejoice and kill your heart coz I say".  Sure, this is fighting injustice.

You are reacting to these lyrics in the right way, but the problem is that you then turn it on Jaz himself instead of the world that he is describing. There is a bitter irony being communicated in this song. Read the lyrics again, with this in mind, & you will see. Hopefully 😉


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Anonymous
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"Horemakhet" wrote:
"david" wrote:
"Live like kings and queens" as follows; "there's so many hungry ... but i'm gonna turn a blind eye ..coz I got to live now..rejoice and kill your heart coz I say".  Sure, this is fighting injustice.

You are reacting to these lyrics in the right way, but the problem is that you then turn it on Jaz himself instead of the world that he is describing. There is a bitter irony being communicated in this song. Read the lyrics again, with this in mind, & you will see. Hopefully 😉

I see it's all irony?  That's convenient eh?  Coleman didn't agree with Live Aid.  I think if anything  it highlighted Africa's problems so criticizing Live Aid publicly to me is a bit naff y'know irresponsible.

  On a similar note Geordie Walker was quoted as saying in a 1985 (or thereabout) interview in same publication  (words to the effect of)  "I read about youth slashing old geezers in the papers and we try to fight it but you can't fight that base mentality it's always been around.  The Romans had the right idea ; put them all in a ring make them kill each other and make some dosh out of it."  hmmmm........................  I don't know about that.


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 Anonymous
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I think David is wilfully misreading the lyrics he quotes to make it look like Killing Joke are celebrating what they are observing. If he has heard the first Killing Joke album he will know the words from Requiem

"the sound of breaking glass
this is a reflection"

I doubt he's really as daft as he pretends to be. But maybe he has a concealed agenda? Or is simply trolling.


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Anonymous
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Well if I use the first person singular in a poem or song then I expect folk to be taking me  at my word.  That quote you provided is nonsensical in terms of the point you are trying to make.  Maybe Jaz isn't as bad as I thought. 

I admire KJ as they have stuck by their guns whilst a lot of people don't like them in the music industry. 


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Horemakhet
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"david" wrote:
  Maybe Jaz isn't as bad as I thought.

HA!


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Anonymous
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"Horemakhet" wrote:
"david" wrote:
  Maybe Jaz isn't as bad as I thought.

HA!

Yes,"HA!"

The last band that Jaz respected was Joy Division.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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While it is always gratifying to get your views on every conceivable question, david, (as we are assured of doing) is there some continued relevance to AC here?


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Anonymous
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"ignant666" wrote:
While it is always gratifying to get your views on every conceivable question, david, (as we are assured of doing) is there some continued relevance to AC here?

Maybe you should ask the person who instigated the OP which was;

"lashtal" wrote:
Killing Joke captured the apocalyptic feel of Crowley's most important work, 'The Book Of The Law', in their stunning 'The Fall Of The Because' (an expression taken from that book). Singer Jaz and drummer Paul influenced the Joke Crowley-wise, but without name dropping at every opportunity. The sleeve of 'Follow The Leaders' depicted a procession holding aloft Crowley's self-designed Tarot pack. Eventually Jaz went to Iceland to seek the company of Peyr (Fear), a group with similar dark interests.

-- David Tibet, Flexipop 666

Please use this thread to post your news and comments regarding Killing Joke...


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Horemakhet
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"david" wrote:
"Horemakhet" wrote:
"david" wrote:
  Maybe Jaz isn't as bad as I thought.

HA!

Yes,"HA!"

The last band that Jaz respected was Joy Division.

Ok.... I'm just going to assume that you're being presumptuous. 😉
HA! is the title of a Killing Joke live album with a performance from 1982. Worth a listen if you haven't already.


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Falcon
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The Killing Joke documentary film "THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION SHOW" has finally been released. Public screenings have taken place at London's British Film Institute and in a cinema in Brighton. The London event included a Question and Answer session with Jaz, who flew over from his Pacific island to attend in person. It will be released on DVD shortly, so I am really looking forward to it! (3 hours long!).

To answer points raised by David - Jaz has said he is GNOSTIC and he occasionally attends an ANGLICAN church on his New Zealand island. Indeed, he says the Anglican Church of New Zealand believes that God is both Male and Female. KJ often make provocative statements to provoke a reaction. DOWN WITH MEDIOCRITY! (As Jaz and Geordie say...)


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Anonymous
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"Falcon" wrote:
The Killing Joke documentary film "THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION SHOW" has finally been released. Public screenings have taken place at London's British Film Institute and in a cinema in Brighton. The London event included a Question and Answer session with Jaz, who flew over from his Pacific island to attend in person. It will be released on DVD shortly, so I am really looking forward to it! (3 hours long!).

To answer points raised by David - Jaz has said he is GNOSTIC and he occasionally attends an ANGLICAN church on his New Zealand island. Indeed, he says the Anglican Church of New Zealand believes that God is both Male and Female. KJ often make provocative statements to provoke a reaction. DOWN WITH MEDIOCRITY! (As Jaz and Geordie say...)

Is he still predicting the end of the world every few years or did he grow out of it?


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Falcon
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"david" wrote:
"Falcon" wrote:
The Killing Joke documentary film "THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION SHOW" has finally been released. Public screenings have taken place at London's British Film Institute and in a cinema in Brighton. The London event included a Question and Answer session with Jaz, who flew over from his Pacific island to attend in person. It will be released on DVD shortly, so I am really looking forward to it! (3 hours long!).

To answer points raised by David - Jaz has said he is GNOSTIC and he occasionally attends an ANGLICAN church on his New Zealand island. Indeed, he says the Anglican Church of New Zealand believes that God is both Male and Female. KJ often make provocative statements to provoke a reaction. DOWN WITH MEDIOCRITY! (As Jaz and Geordie say...)

Is he still predicting the end of the world every few years or did he grow out of it?

I have never actually read anything by Jaz where he said that. All that came from the media's interpretation. What Jaz has said in the past anyway is that something like "there will be a great cleansing of the world by fire".


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Falcon
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"jamie barter" wrote:
It’s lucky for you Jaz doesn’t know where you live, david, as on past ‘record’ I don’t think he takes too kindly to personal criticism!

I remember reading an account of his visiting the offices of the NME (I think, maybe it was Sounds) with malicious damage in mind in the ‘80s after some journo had written a KJ review which didn’t go down too well with him, with the result that he and/or his confederates uploaded a bucket full of offal and maggots they’d thoughtfully brought along with them for the express purpose of tipping over the offending writer’s desk… (Needless to say, she was unimpressed.)

Leaving that aside, though, I am not aware of the allegations you mention,

"david" wrote:
Why don't you google the Catholicism  thing?  Coleman was a twisted man Jamie incessantly making fascistic, naff, sad egotistical statements.

which don’t portray J.C. in the ‘rosiest’ of lights.  You are obviously not a member of the fan club, but that is still no reason to slag the guy off without any foundation.  Not that I am making any direct correlation between A.C. and J.C., but it comes across as the same sort of muck-slinging based on little or no real evidence. (And as Los would say= evidence is paramount.)  I don’t know – maybe these allegations are true, and then again, mebbe not?  Perhaps to save myself and others a bit of unnecessary time & effort on the google trail you might perhaps cite the relevant references here, there’s a good chap!?  (Unless you admit to fantasising & making up the whole thing, of course  😮 ?)

“… Try to be honest –and look what’cha get!” (from the Wardance ♫)
N Joy

The famous 'liver, blood and maggots' incident was performed at the offices of Melody Maker, it was often mistakenly thought to be at NME. Jaz had warned them by phone before that he would bring a baseball bat with him. He walked in and demanded to see the journalist of the anti-KJ smear article. Reception refused to let him upstairs to confront said hack, so he emptied the entire contents of a carrier bag full of the stuff on the front desk! hahaha!!! Maybe Crowley should have done something similar to the Daily Express and John Bull magazine. On another occasion he confronted a bootlegger who was pirating Killing Joke tapes, he walked into his office, cut his forearm and poured his blood over the man's head!


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Falcon
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Jaz Coleman's book "LETTERS FROM CYTHERA" (signed) is now available from:

www.killingjokemerch.com/products/24482


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Falcon
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I recently re-watched the KJ documentary film 'The Death and Resurrection Show' DVD which includes some fascinating archive footage and occult references within such as the time the band recorded inside the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid in Egypt and an Egyptian sound engineer says "The Eye of Horus was coming after me" and he fled in terror "I've seen those eyes many times in my dreams".

https://www.killingjoke.co.uk/products/death-and-resurrection-show-dvd

Here is a trailer to wet your appetite featuring Jimmy Page who says "I know that mysticism played a big part in Jaz's life. Either he is playing with Magick or Magick is playing with him"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qNozCjM5Io&t=5s


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Falcon
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Look "david" KJ denied being "fascist" and released an official statement to that effect in February 2012. For the background leading up to the statement read through this thread on The Gathering where the band make it clear that it was all made up by journalists from Zig Zag music magazine and Melody Maker music newspaper (both now defunct thankfully!):

http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/gathering/2012-February/114836.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcuQhJ168sA

In this rare interview Jaz Coleman denies the band practice "black magic" and that "Man is god and until he sees himself as god he will not realise his full potential".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNmXn1dR_dQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9nAM9N_nxg


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Falcon
(@falcon)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 361
 

'The Courtauld Talks' is a very interesting lecture on occult themes by Killing Joke band members. I have the recording at home (note the Star of Babalon on the record sleeve).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2FxMLCM51E

I wrote off to the band's occult research organisation - The Order of the Distant Island Charter (O.D.I.C.) after picking up a membership leaflet at one of their London concerts.

http://www.jokerplace.net/odic/odic.html


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fraterihsan
(@fraterihsan)
Magus
Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 34
 

I started really getting into these guys only a few days ago but I am loving their music. 

I was also surprised to learn that he produced the first Shihad album (Churn) and the most recent (FVEY). 

Killing Joke is a band I've heard of occasionally but I just assumed they where a generic punk rock band, so didn't pay any attention to them. They've appeared in my life quite syncronistically nonetheless. 

I have mad respect for post-punk and Industrial metal, even though both genres I don't listen to as much as, say, progressive rock, experimental rock/metal/jazz, jazz, contemporary classical, ambient, etc. 

Anyway, I was impressed when I saw the song title of the opening track of their second album. Jaz seems quite well seasoned with all this, though he is also a conspiracy theorist. That said, from the various albums of KJ I've heard so far, he makes it work very well in his art.


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