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Richard Kaczynski: A History of the OTO  

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lashtal
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07/04/2012 12:00 am  

Coming soon (i.e. mid-June this year) from Richard Kaczynski: a substantial history of the OTO. 250+ illustrations, apparently.

More news as we get it…

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William Thirteen
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07/04/2012 11:11 am  

mmm.... tasty....


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Azidonis
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07/04/2012 5:33 pm  

I wonder how historically accurate it will be - what and how much will be whitewashed, etc.

Gonna be a good read though. Thanks for the link, Paul.


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ptoner
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08/04/2012 7:10 pm  

Hopefully it will go into the alleged origins/links that I have read about in relation to Adam Weishaupt and incorporating his rituals etc. I thought that is was another conspiracy theory but it seems that there may be an element of truth. Anyone else have info on this at all?


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 Anonymous
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09/04/2012 12:58 am  

given the great job he done with Perdurabo, i very much look forward to this,  a  detailed history of the OTO is long overdue, Martin Starrs Unknown God was excellent, but limited to the US, and the historical material in Naylors 'OTO rituals and sex magick' was overshadowed a little too much by axes being ground :-). I do hope it will be objective, and personally i would love to get an insight into how Grady took his authorisation re the OTO in the USA and made it Global.


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einDoppelganger
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09/04/2012 8:44 am  
"davyp93" wrote:
I do hope it will be objective, and personally i would love to get an insight into how Grady took his authorisation re the OTO in the USA and made it Global. /quote]


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Markus
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10/04/2012 8:33 pm  

Does Kaczynski know German? If he does not, then I doubt the book will be as substantial as some might wish. After all pretty much all major works on OTO history to date are in German (Peter-R. König, Möller/Howe). I suppose we'll just have to wait to find out, won't we?

Markus


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michaelclarke18
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10/04/2012 9:36 pm  

I can't imagine that this book would be that critical....sadly.


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Michael Staley
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11/04/2012 12:50 am  

In my opinion, whether or not Richard is critical of this or that manifestation of the O.T.O. over the last 100 years or so is not the point. It's the information. I anticipate that he will be content to present the information and let us make up our own minds.


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Azidonis
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11/04/2012 1:27 am  
"MichaelStaley" wrote:
In my opinion, whether or not Richard is critical of this or that manifestation of the O.T.O. over the last 100 years or so is not the point. It's the information. I anticipate that he will be content to present the information and let us make up our own minds.

This is what I would like to see. I do not think that it would assist the O.T.O., overall, if the negative information is withheld just to paint a positive picture.


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 Anonymous
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11/04/2012 1:51 am  

I enjoyed Perdurabo and his new book has my interest, but mostly because I'm curious how Kaczynski is going to navigate this minefield.  I hope that he presents all of the available information in such a way that we can indeed make up our own minds.  That would be the point of him writing a book like this, after all....  But since some of the available information could be considered highly volatile to the cOTO or merely consists of the sort of minutiae only an occultist could love (or hate), I wonder how detailed he's actually going to get. 

On the other hand, Azidonis is right: it won't help cOTO to have certain things withheld or whitewashed, but that's never stopped reformed organizations in the past from doing just that.  Somehow I don't see the cOTO or its members shaking their heads in disgust at the end of the day.  But I'd love to be proven wrong and see a really well presented history that also brings some new information to the table for all parties concerned.

Should be an interesting read regardless.


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Azidonis
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11/04/2012 2:12 am  
"pharos" wrote:
I enjoyed Perdurabo and his new book has my interest, but mostly because I'm curious how Kaczynski is going to navigate this minefield.  I hope that he presents all of the available information in such a way that we can indeed make up our own minds.  That would be the point of him writing a book like this, after all....  But since some of the available information could be considered highly volatile to the cOTO or merely consists of the sort of minutiae only an occultist could love (or hate), I wonder how detailed he's actually going to get. 

On the other hand, Azidonis is right: it won't help cOTO to have certain things withheld or whitewashed, but that's never stopped reformed organizations in the past from doing just that.  Somehow I don't see the cOTO or its members shaking their heads in disgust at the end of the day.  But I'd love to be proven wrong and see a really well presented history that also brings some new information to the table for all parties concerned.

Should be an interesting read regardless.

The necessity of not white-washing such a book is due, in my opinion, to the domino effect of lies it can create.

I consider the possibility that future books written about this time period, and also about the O.T.O. during this time period (100 years from now, or 1,000), will look to this type of book as a main source of information during this time period.

I don't know if Dr. Kaczynski is a member of the c O.T.O., but they will surely have a hand in the tale regardless. Thus, I think this book will become the source book for the "official stance of the c O.T.O. concerning the period for which it was written".

It will also become a sort of standard entry in the bibliography pages of books by other organizations who had dealings with the c O.T.O. during the period the book will cover. That is, if someone wanted to write about XYZ Order and its relation to the c O.T.O., they will probably use this book for source material.

For these reasons, I look forward to an accurate presentation, beneficial or not.

That said, it makes me wonder if Bill Breeze will ever publish an autobiography...


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 Anonymous
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11/04/2012 3:01 am  

Not to derail this thread, but given the possibility that this book could become known as the 'definitive history' or a go-to source for future generations, I for one would love to see a detailed 'biography' of the Typhonian Order and how it splintered and evolved out of this primordial OTO soup.  I'm sure Kaczynski will cover this in his book, in some sort of detail.  The information on Koenig's site is helpful, but he comes off sounding like the cOTO killed his dog and he won't rest until the world knows it.  I've mined what information he has, but I would like to see a biography of sorts come directly from the source one day.

On the other hand, perhaps this will generate the exact sort of thing T.O. wishes to avoid: namely the circus fiasco and the (unnecessary) attention and finger pointing.  I'm just speaking from the perspective of someone who deeply admires Grant and has a growing interest in the T.O. and wishes to learn more about it.


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einDoppelganger
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11/04/2012 4:04 am  

From what I understand the book focuses on the history of the OTO, up to and including involvement by Crowley. Thats my impression from what Richard has written about the project. I imagine such a survey is far more useful and interesting.

"pharos" wrote:
...I for one would love to see a detailed 'biography' of the Typhonian Order and how it splintered and evolved out of this primordial OTO soup.

There was no splintering, per se. Grant operated under the confidence he had spiritual authority to create and maintain the British OTO. This information is plainly available online and in Grant's correspondence with Germer. These letters make a fascinating read and Grant's dignity and clarity of vision shine through. I think one is best served seeking out the source materials rather than reading the interpretation of an academic, even one as talented as Dr K.

On the other hand, perhaps this will generate the exact sort of thing T.O. wishes to avoid: namely the circus fiasco and the (unnecessary) attention and finger pointing.

I would tend to agree.


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Shiva
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11/04/2012 4:10 am  

I'm sure we are all wondering about the place Motta-SOTO, Grant-Typhonia, Solar Lodge-Clandestineum, and The Order of Thelema (San Diego) will be described - they all being "irregular," you know. And what about how Crowley has been accused of "stealing" OTO and OHO from Reuss? You know, how he didn't have the proper paperwork to make such claims - just like those other "officially-not-recognized" recalcitrants mentioned.


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Azidonis
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11/04/2012 7:23 am  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
From what I understand the book focuses on the history of the OTO, up to and including involvement by Crowley. Thats my impression from what Richard has written about the project. I imagine such a survey is far more useful and interesting.

Hrm, if that's all it is about, then why bother reading Kaczynski's words about it, when we could just read Crowley's... or anyone else who was actually there for that matter.

Not trying to argue about it, just sayin'...

"Shiva" wrote:
I'm sure we are all wondering about the place Motta-SOTO, Grant-Typhonia, Solar Lodge-Clandestineum, and The Order of Thelema (San Diego) will be described - they all being "irregular," you know. And what about how Crowley has been accused of "stealing" OTO and OHO from Reuss? You know, how he didn't have the proper paperwork to make such claims - just like those other "officially-not-recognized" recalcitrants mentioned.

Ah yes. This is the good juicy stuff. In my opinion, if a book about the "history of the O.T.O." is going to be written now, it should be very much current and up-to-date.

If the book simply stops at, "Crowley left it to Germer, and the Caliphate lived happily ever after"... why, I would almost even want to invoke the term "cowardice".


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eol
 eol
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11/04/2012 8:14 am  

And how about just waiting for the book to get published and then reading it instead of writing 10 pages on this forum full of "if the book this... if the book that..." without having a slightest clue what Mr Kaczynski actually wrote? 🙂


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Azidonis
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11/04/2012 2:58 pm  
"eol" wrote:
And how about just waiting for the book to get published and then reading it instead of writing 10 pages on this forum full of "if the book this... if the book that..." without having a slightest clue what Mr Kaczynski actually wrote? 🙂

Good idea. I think I'll wait for the reviews before shelling out the cash though.


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ptoner
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22/04/2012 9:24 am  

Good news, Richards book seems to be all about the pre 1913 history of the O.T.O..

The quote below is taken from Ricards Facebook page.

"‎*TOP REJECTED TITLES FOR MY OTO ORIGINS BOOK*
4. Forgotten Founder: The Life of Henry Klein
3. Rise of the Sex Magicians
2. Manifest Clandestiny
1. The Sexy Female Mason Pin-Up Book

#4 was the original title, but the book grew to encompass much more than that. A title like #3 requires werewolves and vampires, but all I had was some gnomes and one vampire.

In the end, I arrived at "Forgotten Templars: The Untold Origins of Ordo Templi Orientis." "

" The more I researched, the more I realized it needed to be written. So even though it wasn't my original intention, that's wht the book became. (And, just to clarify, this book covers the *origins* of OTO...i.e., it covers the back story and history through 1913)."

Just the exact type of book I was looking for! 🙂


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William Thirteen
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22/04/2012 12:03 pm  

having seen Richard present on Henry Klein at the Symposium last year I am sure this will be a fascinating read. While some of this material might already be available from 'other sources', bringing it all together, in English, in an actually readable form, is a great service. And ending the tale at 1913 avoids the minefield altogether...


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Shiva
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22/04/2012 4:20 pm  
"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
And ending the tale at 1913 avoids the minefield altogether...

It's nice that an historical text is available, but it's how the Order was possibly purloined by AC and how it developed after his coronation, and especially after his death, that bears on the present state of world affairs.

Perhaps I will write that Chapter. I believe it could be done in eleven pages or less. It could be titled ...

The Minefield of the Gods[/font:74w707k0][/align:74w707k0]


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lashtal
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22/04/2012 9:06 pm  
"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
having seen Richard present on Henry Klein at the Symposium last year I am sure this will be a fascinating read.

Agreed absolutely. This is a well-informed writer, passionate about his subject.

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LAShTAL


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William Thirteen
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22/04/2012 11:02 pm  

and you ain't so bad yourself Paul!


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 Anonymous
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21/05/2012 6:38 pm  

According to the author, Forgotten Templars (A History of the O.T.O.) is now done and off to the printers just today. It no doubt will be loaded with photographs, anecdotes and the fruits of his tireless and accurate research. It should prove an excellent companion volume to his Perdurabo.


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 Anonymous
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22/05/2012 4:00 pm  

Table of contents for "Forgotten Templars":

Part One: The Key Players
=================
1. Henry Klein: Struggling Victorian Muso 1
2. Klein in Concert 19
3. Theodor Reuss: International Man of Mystery 33
4. Franz Hartmann: From Wild West Country Doctor to World-Class Occult Authority 49
5. Carl Kellner: Occult Medicine, Yoga and Theosophy 67
6. On the Bleeding Edge of Steampunk Music Tech 93

Part Two: Setting the Stage
==================
7. Cultural Background: From Crafty Lodges to Proto-Hippies 113
8. Cerneau’s Ancient and not-so-Accepted Scottish Rite 119
9. The Ancient & Primitive Rite of Egyptian Masonry 139
10. John Yarker: Masonic Archaeologist 163

Part Three: Ordo Templi Orientis
=====================
11. Beginnings (1902–1906) 185
12. Troubles (1905–1907) 213
13. A Critical Appraisal 239
14. Emergence (1906–1913) 252

Epilogue 277

Also includes an introduction, five appendices, and an index.


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eol
 eol
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05/07/2012 1:55 pm  

The book has been out for a couple of weeks(Richard posted on his G+ that it's been released on the 20th of June,  if I'm not mistaken). Anybody had a chance to read it?


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William Thirteen
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05/07/2012 2:58 pm  

read it? I'm still trying to lift it - the dang thing is so heavy...


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jamie barter
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07/03/2015 4:25 pm  

Maybe this should go under some sort of “Requests” thread instead of here under "Recommendations", but the title caught my eye.

"ptoner" wrote:
Good news, Richard's book seems to be all about the pre 1913 history of the O.T.O..

The quote below is taken from Ricards Facebook page: [...]

" The more I researched, the more I realized it needed to be written. So even though it wasn't my original intention, that's wht the book became. (And, just to clarify, this book covers the *origins* of OTO...i.e., it covers the back story and history through 1913)."

I was wondering if a future edition of this book – or more likely maybe, its sequel(s) – was intended to go past 1913: “A substantial history” of the O.T.O. doesn’t seem to cover very much ground if it grinds to a pre-bellum halt.  Given that the Ordo Templi Orientis as recognized started in 1902, or 1895 at the earliest, it seems to stretch the notion about its being an overall history rather a little if it only covers an eleven, or eighteen, year period.  Why, Crowley himself only began the M.’. M.’. M.’. a year before that i.e., in 1912!

Further to this, is it known whether anybody else is contemplating, or indeed has, written any other recent history of the org themselves?  Maybe there might even be an “official” version contemplated, although that might have obvious drawbacks regarding the prospect of whitewash considerations which has been brought up in this thread at least.  If not though, there definitely seems to be an O.T.O.-shaped vacuum in the magicko-historical records which requires filling up by somebody at some time.  As the first part of the mooted enlarged and revised Secret Rituals of the O.T.O., I included the history element since Francis King had himself written six brief chapters covering the ground up until the time of the first edition (1973).  The second edition so far has twelve chapters, all of them enlarged with additional material (some, particularly the later ones – 1962-73, 1973-95 and “Contemporary Relevance” – considerably so; see Blogs on this site), some of which would have been very hard to track down and collate at the time before the rise of the internet.

However, such is the size of this history element it could almost qualify as a separate book in its own right pending future appearance of the complete work, as pagewise it will be larger than the size of the whole first edition.  In order to bring it up to the present time at some point it will need to be updated further, and particularly so with respect to from 1995 onwards.  Consequently I would be grateful to receive any material which anyone thinks might be of any use, in strict confidence if desired, of course, or to be “Acknowledged” in due measure; or indeed any suggestions at all (polite ones, preferably!) which might aid the matter.  This applies to all manifestations of the "O.T.O." – that is, the 'Caliphornian', the 'Typhonian', the 'Society' and the 'Swiss', although the last one appears to be more or less moribund.  Anything to do with any recent "O.T.O."-"A.’. A.’." connections would also be valid and grist to the grindmill; I would also be particularly interested in hearing from those with information about the activities of the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholicae. 

Axe-grinders and grape-gripers would receive a sympathetic hearing, although no guarantees are made that any of their material would be included!  Similarly, puff-jobs or praising works of P.R. would also be considered on their merits and placed in appropriate context (again, possibly in what is known as the Delete or Recycle Bin ;D, should that prove necessary). 

There is no rush since I’ll probably not be drafting anything further just yet, but would like to complete matters before around, ooh let's say maybe 2018 ;).

‘Honest Jim’ - “Telling it how it is”,
a.k.a. Norma N Joy Conquest


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michaelclarke18
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07/03/2015 6:13 pm  

I've tried very hard - and looks at copies on a number of occasions - but I simply cannot get excited about this book. I simply don't see anything remotely of interest.


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newneubergOuch2
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08/03/2015 12:34 am  

I have forgotten Templars, its s good read but pre Crowley as you say.

Others of note:
-The unknown God. Starr (Agape lodge).
-Red Flame journal -Grady McMurtry (two volumes), Jane Wolfe (two volumes). Biographies.
-the first part of Kings Secret Rituals.
-The first part of OTO rituals and sex Magick -Naylor.
-Crowley biographies of course-I have most of them, If not perhaps all. Too many to list.
-Crowleys Confessions.
-Jerry Cornelius -Cornelia magazine for a good history of Thelema Lodge.
-blood on the Altar- heimbichner. sensationalist but has some good bits of history.
-the black Lodge of Santa Cruz- for fun.
-Fra.Shivas Solar Lodge book.
-Teitan Press have a bit of history scattered about in their volumes.
In the center of the fire-wasserman.
-The beast in Berlin-Churton.
-Koneigs site.

I also have an extensive digital collection.

I have all the above books and have also read them.
Between them they give quite a good historical view of the OTO.
But there is a need for a decent, concise, well written and impartial book on the history of the OTO (and one for the AA).

This would solve many problems and discussions before they even started.

A main problem of people that are into Crowley/Thelema/OTO is they haven't read any of the material or history, or even enough of the material to get a decent overview and often if they have then they only read partial parts here and there which distort the overall meaning.

It does get trying when people ask the same questions periodically which a little reading of the ready available texts would answer. I prefer to teach a man to fish rather than giving them the fish, unfortunately in todays consumer 'I want it now' society aspirants just want the fish to be given to them, unfortunately with the mysteries even if they just got given the fish it wouldn't help.
It doesnt work like that.

After twenty five years plus I myself am painfully aware of that which I don't know or understand concerning its history and the work.

A full history would be valuable for as you can see from my list one has to buy many books to get an informed but even then incomplete historical overview.


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William Thirteen
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08/03/2015 12:02 pm  

as Markus mentioned earlier in this thread - without the author's being able to read German (and probably some French & Portuguese) a full picture would not emerge. And a requirement to be

decent, concise, well written and impartial

would immediately rule out almost all those with enough interest to produce such a text.  I agree with the opinion expressed above by einDoppelganger (where are you friend?), that interested parties would better benefit from going to the source texts and developing their own view of the matter.


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jamie barter
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11/03/2015 1:01 pm  
"newneubergOuch2" wrote:
[...] But there is a need for a decent, concise, well written and impartial book on the history of the OTO (and one for the AA).

This would solve many problems and discussions before they even started.

A main problem of people that are into Crowley/Thelema/OTO is they haven't read any of the material or history, or even enough of the material to get a decent overview and often if they have then they only read partial parts here and there which distort the overall meaning. [...]

A full history would be valuable for as you can see from my list one has to buy many books to get an informed but even then incomplete historical overview.

"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
as Markus mentioned earlier in this thread - without the author's being able to read German (and probably some French & Portuguese) a full picture would not emerge. And a requirement to be

decent, concise, well written and impartial

would immediately rule out almost all those with enough interest to produce such a text. [...]

Thank you – these are some perceptive comments which I agree with & had mentioned that there is a vacuum concerning: a “decent, concise, well written, impartial full history with a complete historical overview” of the O.T.O.  All of the texts cited give a partial view, but by necessity, ANY purported O.T.O. history will give a partial view, in the sense that it can’t include everything.  And there is a lot of material which for the moment is German-only, though unfortunately I am not bi-lingual in this respect.  I don’t expect my version of the history to be the final word on the matter by any means, and in updating I would have to write two fairly large new chunks on the “O.T.O. Foundation” and the Solar Lodge for starters (which would mean eventually getting hold of and reading Shiva’s book on the subject without paying a king’s ransom – which I am looking forward to eventually doing, incidentally (reading, not the ransom) – I wonder if there any pdfs available yet?)  Such an overview would help move things further along a bit but if someone better qualified is able & available to do a better job, then good luck & all the best to them, and if I can be of any assistance, do etc etc.

N Joy


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