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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5384
19/12/2010 8:19 pm  

Winter Solstice 2010 will occur
Tuesday, December 21
6:48 PM EST

Greetings and Congratulations on arriving intact, or at least conscious, at another Winter Solstice.

You are invited to view or download, Free, a new 16-page, illustrated booklet:
<span style="font-size:18px]
which is suitable for Horus-children of all ages.

A printout of this full-color document in 8.5 x 11" (or whatever similar size you British Empire blokes use) can easily grace your coffee table during the coming festive season, and who knows, you might even qualify for that most treasured status:
"Centre of Pestilence."

Get your copy at:
http://palomaryoga.angelfire.com/Aeon.pd f"> http://palomaryoga.angelfire.com/Aeon.pdf

Shiva


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
19/12/2010 9:16 pm  

Thank you Shiva. I look forward to reading this over lunch break.

Cheers
S


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
19/12/2010 11:08 pm  

Very generous of you, Shiva, thank-you.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2743
20/12/2010 12:22 am  

very timely
i feel things getting more maatian every moment. thanks frater siva!
pass the matto while i read the maatian manifesto


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
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Posts: 2743
20/12/2010 12:30 am  

very nice read. the only thing is i am surprised you didn't include any info about frater achad and his views on the aeon of maat, or kenneth grants . I like the view that the aeon of maat is simultaneously occurring with the aeon of horus depending on one's evolution or point of view. After all time is both non-existent and relative. still very entertaining pdf!


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
20/12/2010 1:04 am  
"christibrany" wrote:
very nice read. the only thing is i am surprised you didn't include any info about frater achad and his views on the aeon of maat, or kenneth grants . I like the view that the aeon of maat is simultaneously occurring with the aeon of horus depending on one's evolution or point of view. After all time is both non-existent and relative. still very entertaining pdf!

That adds to the strength, in my view, if glimpses of the Aeon of Maat come from a variety of directions. Kenneth Grant's work in this respect continues that of Achad, and relates it to Lam, suggesting - to my mind, very pursuasively - that what was contained in the Egg which featured so often throughout the Amalantrah Working - and which was embodied in Crowley's drawing of Lam - was in fact awareness of the Aeon of Maat. Achad was present at the Workings for a couple of months or so prior to the Aesopus Island retreat.

It's interesting that Parsons, in his notes on the Babalon Working, speaks of the need for the force and fire of Horus to be ameliorated by a feminine force, which he identified as Babalon. Achad's thinking, as elaborated in the course of his 1948 correspondence with Yorke, was broadly similar although he identified the force as the Aeon of Ma - or the Ma-Ion - which he saw as running concurrently with that of Horus as the final element of the Tetragrammaton.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2743
20/12/2010 1:44 pm  

I think it ties in with physics too. How we are finding there is the ability for the effects particles to exist in two places at once irregardless of space or time. Photon entanglement. To name just one piece of it. Outside the circles of time in the Aeon of Maat indeed.
It also begs the question, if Aeons were cyclical previously why are we now So Special as to have a two-in-one? 😀


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
20/12/2010 9:19 pm  

The Aeon of Maat practices, as can be derived especially from the writings by Kenneth Grant is very important from an initiatory perspective. I had for some time viewed it as something of non-interest from a practical perspective but after some important initiatory revelations I realized that under the surface the current is very close to some important Qliphothic mysteries.
Grants books on the subject would indeed be "beneficial" to anyone not already working with the Qliphoth.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5384
22/12/2010 6:00 am  

Greetings from the middle of the longest night of the year.

As a further manifestation of this phenomenal lunar eclipse dancing on the winter solstice, you are invited to view the ATTACHMENT: A real-time, more or less, update on the
WINTER SOLSTICE ALIGNMENT OF 2010

Sh.'.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
22/12/2010 3:43 pm  

Anyone familiar with Nema's Maat Magick and wants to share some insight?


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2743
22/12/2010 4:01 pm  

i wish i could help you lucius but besides reading the introduction and reading through the book once, i havent had the ability to perform the rituals yet. i dont like to get muddled wiht different systems all at once. i figure you should know one well before you try another one and im still starting the AA one. But hwen im on firm footing maybe i will try some and let you know.
It seems like a freeform new agey style of ritual that she created that draws inspiration from teh golden dawn, thelema and of course typhonian trilogies of grant. I think it would work it seems interesting...

and siva thanks for the cute solstice document. i did an astral ritual that night but i didnt go see the moon i was in bed lol. Plus the past 3 times i have been thwarted by my latitude and not seen any astronomical events that have been reported even when i do go out.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
26/12/2010 9:53 pm  
"christibrany" wrote:
It also begs the question, if Aeons were cyclical previously why are we now So Special as to have a two-in-one? 😀

There are many different conceptions of cycles of time. The Hindu yugas for instance run for mind-boggling spans of time, all within the pulse of Days and Nights of Brahma. Compared to these durations, the Aeons of Isis, Osiris and Horus are fleeting indeed.

There is a view that the Aeons run not successively but concurrently. It may be, for instance, that there are still some isolated societies that are organised in a matrilinear fashion, and thus according to Crowley's conception still in the Aeon of Isis. In my view this further erodes the link between the Aeons and the Precession of the Equinoxes.

So what do the Aeons signify? In my opinion they signify levels of consciousness or insight, part and parcel of the chopping-up of Eternity into objective phenomena.

"FraterLucius" wrote:
Anyone familiar with Nema's Maat Magick and wants to share some insight?

It's been a number of years since I read this and others of Nema's works. I do like very much Liber Pennae Praenumbra, received in the early 1970s. For me the strength of it is not so much in its own right, but its place in a sequence of foreshadowings, for example Achad's Age of Truth and Justice and Parsons' force of Babalon.

It's interesting that in Grant's early books he was sceptical of Achad's work in detecting in detecting the inception of the Ma-Ion. The change can be seen in Nightside of Eden. By this time, Andahadna/Nema had sent him a copy of Liber Pennae Praenumbra and he was able to see parallels with Achad's work, as a rsult of which he was able to go back to the Jones-Yorke correspondence and reassess it.

Best wishes,

Michael.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
28/12/2010 5:05 pm  
"MichaelStaley" wrote:
"christibrany" wrote:
It also begs the question, if Aeons were cyclical previously why are we now So Special as to have a two-in-one? 😀

There are many different conceptions of cycles of time. The Hindu yugas for instance run for mind-boggling spans of time, all within the pulse of Days and Nights of Brahma. Compared to these durations, the Aeons of Isis, Osiris and Horus are fleeting indeed.

There is a view that the Aeons run not successively but concurrently. It may be, for instance, that there are still some isolated societies that are organised in a matrilinear fashion, and thus according to Crowley's conception still in the Aeon of Isis. In my view this further erodes the link between the Aeons and the Precession of the Equinoxes.

So what do the Aeons signify? In my opinion they signify levels of consciousness or insight, part and parcel of the chopping-up of Eternity into objective phenomena.

"FraterLucius" wrote:
Anyone familiar with Nema's Maat Magick and wants to share some insight?

It's been a number of years since I read this and others of Nema's works. I do like very much Liber Pennae Praenumbra, received in the early 1970s. For me the strength of it is not so much in its own right, but its place in a sequence of foreshadowings, for example Achad's Age of Truth and Justice and Parsons' force of Babalon.

It's interesting that in Grant's early books he was sceptical of Achad's work in detecting in detecting the inception of the Ma-Ion. The change can be seen in Nightside of Eden. By this time, Andahadna/Nema had sent him a copy of Liber Pennae Praenumbra and he was able to see parallels with Achad's work, as a rsult of which he was able to go back to the Jones-Yorke correspondence and reassess it.

Best wishes,

Michael.

Best wishes,

Michael.

Cheers for the great post, Michael. 😉
I am very interested both in Achad's work and the works that come from the HML, and your intervention wove the two strands together nicely.


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 104
04/08/2011 6:22 am  

Of course, I suppose this is fake, but just currious what other think about this?

In 1936 Aleister Crowley wrote a letter to Charles S.Jones, one of his students of magick, aka Frater Achad, in which we mentioned a New Aeon, the Aeon of Ma'at, arriving simultaneously with the Aeon of Horus. Frater Achad stated that, as Aleister Crowley had secretly informed him, the Aeon of Ma'at would begin in 1948 and last for approximately 2000 years. The New Aeon of Ma'at, which is known as the "Twin Current," because of its simultaneous development with the Aeon of Horus, is a cosmic overlap of the two aeons, whose temporal cycles run in spirals, so that each of the "Twin Currents" runs above and below the other one at any given time. The recent discovery of two notebooks which apparently represent Aleister Crowley's last books, "The Book of Ma'at" and "Hymns to Ma'at" confirm thecontent of the letter he wrote in 1936 to Frater Achad. These two last books represent, as Crowley himself wrote in their pages, "the greatest of all secrets." ALSO PUBLISHED BY LOGOSTAR PRESS: "THE BOOK OF MA'AT".

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-book-of-maat-according-to-the-recently-discovered-manuscript/15325934?productTrackingContext=search_results/search_shelf/center/1


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
04/08/2011 6:45 am  
"Frater_HPK" wrote:
Of course, I suppose this is fake, but just currious what other think about this?

In 1936 Aleister Crowley wrote a letter to Charles S.Jones, one of his students of magick, aka Frater Achad, in which we mentioned a New Aeon, the Aeon of Ma'at, arriving simultaneously with the Aeon of Horus. Frater Achad stated that, as Aleister Crowley had secretly informed him, the Aeon of Ma'at would begin in 1948 and last for approximately 2000 years. The New Aeon of Ma'at, which is known as the "Twin Current," because of its simultaneous development with the Aeon of Horus, is a cosmic overlap of the two aeons, whose temporal cycles run in spirals, so that each of the "Twin Currents" runs above and below the other one at any given time. The recent discovery of two notebooks which apparently represent Aleister Crowley's last books, "The Book of Ma'at" and "Hymns to Ma'at" confirm thecontent of the letter he wrote in 1936 to Frater Achad. These two last books represent, as Crowley himself wrote in their pages, "the greatest of all secrets." ALSO PUBLISHED BY LOGOSTAR PRESS: "THE BOOK OF MA'AT".

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-book-of-maat-according-to-the-recently-discovered-manuscript/15325934?productTrackingContext=search_results/search_shelf/center/1

It's a fake. "Copyright Logostar Press" - whoever the hell that is, right? We all know there are only a small handful of people with Crowley's works and the rights and ability to publish them.

Also, underneath where it says "by Aleister Crowley", if you click on "View this author's spotlight", inevitably linking you to an "author's" page who goes by the name "nedaule" or Robert Deleanu, you can see other award winning works of art he has made!

Works such as... "Poems in Sumerian: Daniel Deleanu", no doubt written on some ancient Sumerian papyri and then mirculously translated and put into verse by this wonderful author!

A full listing can be found here (the clicky place mentioned earlier).

I suppose anyone can put anything up for print on Lulu...sigh.

So if not plagiarism then what is it, forgery? Some sort of identity theft?


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
04/08/2011 1:26 pm  

Yes, having viewed the blurb, it's clearly a fake. There was correspondence in 1936 between Crowley and Jones; that much is true. It was initiated by Crowley because he was preparing The Equinox of the Gods and wanted Jones to check some things, for the purposes of which he sent Jones proofs.

In the course of this correspondence Jones subsequently referred to the Aeon of Truth and Justice. However, whilst Crowley had no problem in acknowledging that the Aeon would arrive, he considered it a long way off, and wished to concentrate on the Aeon of Horus. The incoming of the Aeon in 1948 was detected by Jones; had the initiative come from Crowley, then Jones would have said so in the course of his protracted correspondence on the matter with Gerald Yorke in 1948.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
04/08/2011 8:34 pm  

While I am not an advocate for the Aeon of Ma'at and concurrent aeons I can certainly see how such a thing is possible within the realms of modern quantum physics and the theory that everything that has happened or will happened is happening at this very time. My personal paradigm is always in flux though depending on what I need to accomplish my Will in that moment.


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Patriarch156
(@patriarch156)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 486
04/08/2011 11:52 pm  
"uranus" wrote:
My personal paradigm is always in flux though depending on what I need to accomplish my Will in that moment.

In other words, we should not try to look for content, but rather agenda when you express your worldview 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
05/08/2011 2:53 am  
"FraterLucius" wrote:
Anyone familiar with Nema's Maat Magick and wants to share some insight?

I was introduced to Nema's material through the Cincinatti Journal of Ceremonial Magick, which my local Occult Bookstore sold back in the early nineties. Although I found it interesting, I was still coming to grips with Crowley at the time, to really grasp what it was meant to be about, it seemed a bit loose and sketchy (probably a reflection of my limited pool of reference), but nonetheless inspirational.

Later on, having supped at the Crowline table in substantial measure (and having discovered similar "loose and sketchy" aspects of his own work, despite its contrived presentation by certain editors and organisations as being somehow formally complete in a Classical sense, and beyond possibility of contemporaneous extension), my gaze wandered to the fecund and resonant works of his student Kenneth Grant.

I was impressed by his works but again, although inspiring and rich, I found them quite inaccessible to any practical extent. I particularly enjoyed the Lovecraft references as I had a great deal of interest in Lovecraft from an early age and had always found the themes of his fiction quite immediately "spiritual" - not the squid-monster eating people kind of thing, but his Cosmic concepts, his treatment of occult themes such as magical angles and so forth, and during a period of study of his fiction I found myself having some extraordinary and in at least one case utterly terrifying dreams involving "impossible" superimpositions of distinct yet simultaneous levels of consciousness oscillating around a central hub of borderline slumber and dream. But I digress.

I had noticed Nema's Maat Magick on bookshelves for a while but I didn't buy it because it just didn't look like something I'd be interested in. It looked New Agey or something, and I had always found the use by people other than Crowley of the word "Magick" with a "k" in titles to their books to be pretentious and unoriginal (that was then, when I was an arrogant young fool, I'm ok with it now, it's been "worn in" so to speak). I was nonetheless impressed to discover in Grant's Typhonian Trilogies substantial references to Nema's work. My life then became rather busy in other directions, I moved to another country, and, to cut a long story short, I became very deeply affected by the simple act of reading a particular volume of Kenneth Grant's. Something had shifted in me, an epiphany occurred, to say the least, and my perspective changed quite radically. A year or so later in another place, and I was still very engaged with apprehending the Object behind Grant's work in my own practical workings, as well as their relation to Crowley, which had also been a nigh-constant companion over the entire period.

Then one day after having Grant's books constantly drumming on about Nema's work I realised it was probably high time I looked at her work itself once again with new eyes.

I began with the essays one can find online and then the next time I was in Border's I bought Maat Magick.

As well as finding a great deal of interest in her philosophical and speculative theoretical/prophetic vision emerging from her own initiations and her 'recieved text' Liber Pennae Penumbra (which remains largely unread by me, I will get round to studying it properly one day but there is already such a backlog of amazing material to catch up on, Spare and Chumbley in particular...), so far I have found particular practical value in
i) her Star of Babalon tarot spread - speaks to me very nicely;
and
ii) her 8-fold banishing rites, which have at times provided a rich matrix for occasionally extensive ritual elaboration.
iii) some of the other rituals, such as the Vortex, have informed things I've engaged in for various purposes.

As regards the Aeon of Ma'at, there are so many resonances with Crowley's Thelema, to me.

I now feel that "Crowley's Thelema" and "the Aeon of Ma'at" are but two freshly-cut, crucial but humble facets on the far more immense, darkly glittering surface of what I believe will soon be beheld as an immense magical jewel of gnosis; but two patches on the Kosmos-cloaking technicolour dreamcoat wherewith we shall weave our Way to the End, and beyond.

(pauses for breath)

I also can't wait for this, Jones' work has thus far attracted only a small amount of my interest.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
05/08/2011 9:27 pm  
"Patriarch156" wrote:
"uranus" wrote:
My personal paradigm is always in flux though depending on what I need to accomplish my Will in that moment.

In other words, we should not try to look for content, but rather agenda when you express your worldview 😉

More devil's advocate in most arguments. LOL 😉


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
06/08/2011 11:02 am  
"Noctifer" wrote:
I now feel that "Crowley's Thelema" and "the Aeon of Ma'at" are but two freshly-cut, crucial but humble facets on the far more immense, darkly glittering surface of what I believe will soon be beheld as an immense magical jewel of gnosis; but two patches on the Kosmos-cloaking technicolour dreamcoat wherewith we shall weave our Way to the End, and beyond.

Though I'd prefer to substitute "The Aeon of Horus" for your reference to "Crowley's Thelema", I regard this passage as pretty spot-on. Some traditions such as the Hindu have staggeringly vast stretches of time as Yugas, all within a Day of Brahma, besides which the Aeons of Isis, Osiris, Horus and Maat seem mere pinpricks in eternity, as it were. Whatever the conceptions of space-time, and the panoply of "world-bewitching Maya" of which we are facets, there's a gnosis of non-duality glittering at the core.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
06/08/2011 11:31 am  

Noctifer, your post was wonderful, and echoes the order of my approach to The Aeon of Maat: Crowley, Grant, Nema.
I too can't wait for the Achad book to come out..


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
06/08/2011 2:11 pm  
"MichaelStaley" wrote:
"Noctifer" wrote:
I now feel that "Crowley's Thelema" and "the Aeon of Ma'at" are but two freshly-cut, crucial but humble facets on the far more immense, darkly glittering surface of what I believe will soon be beheld as an immense magical jewel of gnosis; but two patches on the Kosmos-cloaking technicolour dreamcoat wherewith we shall weave our Way to the End, and beyond.

Though I'd prefer to substitute "The Aeon of Horus" for your reference to "Crowley's Thelema", I regard this passage as pretty spot-on. Some traditions such as the Hindu have staggeringly vast stretches of time as Yugas, all within a Day of Brahma, besides which the Aeons of Isis, Osiris, Horus and Maat seem mere pinpricks in eternity, as it were. Whatever the conceptions of space-time, and the panoply of "world-bewitching Maya" of which we are facets, there's a gnosis of non-duality glittering at the core.

Best wishes,

Michael.

This is interesting. I wrote the above pretty much off the cuff, and didn't really think about the terms I used.

"Crowley's Thelema" now seems an odd thing for someone like me to say in this context, as I discern in Crowley's Thelema and indeed even in his exposition of it, the point that it is something that, although enunciated through him, exists in and of itself, just like the Tao is more than Lao Tzu's writings about it.

"The Thelema that can be confined to a single author's interpretation is not the eternal Thelema!"

I suppose the impression I was trying to capture was the fact that, even though I regard it as a kind of transfigured Taoism, or something like that, Thelema will (I imagine), whatever happens, always have Crowley stamped all over it, the same way Evolutionary theory has Darwin stamped all over it, for better or worse. So in this sense it will, at least for the foreseeable future, always be "Crowley's Thelema". That's not meant to suggest that Crowley is all there is to Thelema, or vice-versa (this subject has obviously been explored ad lots-am elsewhere). But he will always be there, at the heart.

Ditto the Aeon of Horus I suppose.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
06/08/2011 2:34 pm  

Michael, what do you think about the fact that (as I understand it) the Indian Yugas are always seen as definitely temporal, whilst in, say, Grant's works, the notion of Aeons (i.e. Aeon of Horus, Ma'at, etc.) has been elaborated from Crowley's rather linear definition into a pluralist "mode" sort of idea which depends more upon the quality of consciousness of individuals with access thereunto than it does the date in mundane terms (although the latter may possess particular inherent topology relative to the former which might explain history and emergence of novelty-conservation as an offset to the apparent increase of entropy which materialists seem to believe defines the arrow of time)?

Of course, in sheer numerical extravagance the Yugas are immense, but then so (if we stick literally to this) are the bleak digital cosmological pornographies of people like Stephen Hawking. Inconceivable strings of digits to stagger the mind and destroy the sense of personal significance.

But I feel quite strongly that the Aeons of Crowley have quite another, more human-historic-centric focus, a specific relation to human consciousness and to the acts which it bespeaks, than do the Yugas. I'm not terribly au fait with the Yugas so I could have this totally wrong but I get the distinct impression that the Aeons of which Crowley (and Grant, Nema, Achad) speaks emerge directly out of and of humanity whereas the Yugas most probably haven't even noticed we're here.

Perhaps the Yugas could be seen as a field upon which the Aeons play and interweave.

In Western occult tradition we only really have the ages assigned to the Olympic Spirits of the Arbatel, the Gnostic Aeons, and maybe some others that my wine-addled brain and laxity of recent study habits have omitted. One might also include Peter Carroll's "psychohistoric mechanism of the Aeons" from his first few books in this.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
06/08/2011 3:43 pm  
"Noctifer" wrote:
But I feel quite strongly that the Aeons of Crowley have quite another, more human-historic-centric focus, a specific relation to human consciousness and to the acts which it bespeaks, than do the Yugas. I'm not terribly au fait with the Yugas so I could have this totally wrong but I get the distinct impression that the Aeons of which Crowley (and Grant, Nema, Achad) speaks emerge directly out of and of humanity whereas the Yugas most probably haven't even noticed we're here . . . Perhaps the Yugas could be seen as a field upon which the Aeons play and interweave.

I've thought about this for a good deal of time. I recall reading David Hall's article 'Time & the World' in the first issue of Sothis in the early 1970s, my mind reeling at the vast spans of time portrayed in the yugas, all encapsulated within successive cycles of Days and Nights of Brahma. Of course, one wonders how literally it was ever intended to be taken. It can, though, be seen as the tapestry upon which so much else is woven.

Your remarks here bring to mind a passage from Grant's Beyond the Mauve Zone, towards the end of the three chapters of analysis of Liber Pennae Praenumbra:

It is at this point that the divergence appears between the Way of Aiwass-Lam and that of N’Aton who prefigures a future embodiment of human consciousness – in other words, ourselves as we shall appear at some future time. As should by this time be evident, we refute this postulate in favour of the notion that consciousness in its human phase is an altogether transient phenomenon, a mere flash in the immensity of Space-Time (Nu-Isis). Transmissions such as the Stanzas of Dzyan, Liber AL, the Necronomicon, and, we maintain, Liber Pennae Praenumbra itself, give no support to the notion of an identifiably human mask to consciousness perpetuating itself indefinitely. But all whose will it is to make – as Nema phrases it – “the mutational leap into being a new species” should be prepared to relinquish the concept of ‘human’ consciousness with all its dualistic implicits.

Yes, I do feel that the Aeons as expounded by Crowley encapsulate the recent, more identifiably human phase of consciousness. I also think that "reality" (whatever that might be) is beyond time and space; that time and space (and indeed the whole panoply of the "world-bewitching maya" are phenomena spun out from this non-dual core.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
06/08/2011 6:10 pm  
"MichaelStaley" wrote:
"Noctifer" wrote:
But I feel quite strongly that the Aeons of Crowley have quite another, more human-historic-centric focus, a specific relation to human consciousness and to the acts which it bespeaks, than do the Yugas. I'm not terribly au fait with the Yugas so I could have this totally wrong but I get the distinct impression that the Aeons of which Crowley (and Grant, Nema, Achad) speaks emerge directly out of and of humanity whereas the Yugas most probably haven't even noticed we're here . . . Perhaps the Yugas could be seen as a field upon which the Aeons play and interweave.

I've thought about this for a good deal of time. I recall reading David Hall's article 'Time & the World' in the first issue of Sothis in the early 1970s, my mind reeling at the vast spans of time portrayed in the yugas, all encapsulated within successive cycles of Days and Nights of Brahma. Of course, one wonders how literally it was ever intended to be taken. It can, though, be seen as the tapestry upon which so much else is woven.

Your remarks here bring to mind a passage from Grant's Beyond the Mauve Zone, towards the end of the three chapters of analysis of Liber Pennae Praenumbra:

It is at this point that the divergence appears between the Way of Aiwass-Lam and that of N’Aton who prefigures a future embodiment of human consciousness – in other words, ourselves as we shall appear at some future time. As should by this time be evident, we refute this postulate in favour of the notion that consciousness in its human phase is an altogether transient phenomenon, a mere flash in the immensity of Space-Time (Nu-Isis). Transmissions such as the Stanzas of Dzyan, Liber AL, the Necronomicon, and, we maintain, Liber Pennae Praenumbra itself, give no support to the notion of an identifiably human mask to consciousness perpetuating itself indefinitely. But all whose will it is to make – as Nema phrases it – “the mutational leap into being a new species” should be prepared to relinquish the concept of ‘human’ consciousness with all its dualistic implicits.

Yes, I do feel that the Aeons as expounded by Crowley encapsulate the recent, more identifiably human phase of consciousness. I also think that "reality" (whatever that might be) is beyond time and space; that time and space (and indeed the whole panoply of the "world-bewitching maya" are phenomena spun out from this non-dual core.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
06/08/2011 6:16 pm  
"MichaelStaley" wrote:
"Noctifer" wrote:
But I feel quite strongly that the Aeons of Crowley have quite another, more human-historic-centric focus, a specific relation to human consciousness and to the acts which it bespeaks, than do the Yugas. I'm not terribly au fait with the Yugas so I could have this totally wrong but I get the distinct impression that the Aeons of which Crowley (and Grant, Nema, Achad) speaks emerge directly out of and of humanity whereas the Yugas most probably haven't even noticed we're here . . . Perhaps the Yugas could be seen as a field upon which the Aeons play and interweave.

I've thought about this for a good deal of time. I recall reading David Hall's article 'Time & the World' in the first issue of Sothis in the early 1970s, my mind reeling at the vast spans of time portrayed in the yugas, all encapsulated within successive cycles of Days and Nights of Brahma. Of course, one wonders how literally it was ever intended to be taken. It can, though, be seen as the tapestry upon which so much else is woven.

Your remarks here bring to mind a passage from Grant's Beyond the Mauve Zone, towards the end of the three chapters of analysis of Liber Pennae Praenumbra:

It is at this point that the divergence appears between the Way of Aiwass-Lam and that of N’Aton who prefigures a future embodiment of human consciousness – in other words, ourselves as we shall appear at some future time. As should by this time be evident, we refute this postulate in favour of the notion that consciousness in its human phase is an altogether transient phenomenon, a mere flash in the immensity of Space-Time (Nu-Isis). Transmissions such as the Stanzas of Dzyan, Liber AL, the Necronomicon, and, we maintain, Liber Pennae Praenumbra itself, give no support to the notion of an identifiably human mask to consciousness perpetuating itself indefinitely. But all whose will it is to make – as Nema phrases it – “the mutational leap into being a new species” should be prepared to relinquish the concept of ‘human’ consciousness with all its dualistic implicits.

Yes, I do feel that the Aeons as expounded by Crowley encapsulate the recent, more identifiably human phase of consciousness. I also think that "reality" (whatever that might be) is beyond time and space; that time and space (and indeed the whole panoply of the "world-bewitching maya" are phenomena spun out from this non-dual core.

Best wishes,

Michael.

A wonderful response. Thanks.

How, then, ought we to consider the value, or worth, of "humanity", with all that it entails?

For just as surely as we are demonstrably engines of crime, shame, and atrocity unto eachother and unto the beings we know, we are miraculous and demonstrably divine, beyond angelic on occasion. Occasionally these qualities co-exist within those who are, rightly or wrongly, called individuals.

Of what value is human-ness? Has it a precise value that can be expounded unto such as yet wear its mask, I wonder?

Perhaps it's analogous to a kind of infancy.

I suppose what I'm musing at is, beyond the fact that it is to be relinquished, what's it bloody well for?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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06/08/2011 6:24 pm  

Pardon the above lapse, I am packing for a short trip and slipped up.

"MichaelStaley" wrote:
Yes, I do feel that the Aeons as expounded by Crowley encapsulate the recent, more identifiably human phase of consciousness. I also think that "reality" (whatever that might be) is beyond time and space; that time and space (and indeed the whole panoply of the "world-bewitching maya" are phenomena spun out from this non-dual core.

I am curious as to your thoughts about the purpose, if any, if our illusory experience of duality as if it were reality, Micheal. Specifically, is this experience voluntary or involuntary? How is it accurately to be regarded and, therefore, engaged? Or, is it to be seriously engaged at all? That sort of thing.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
06/08/2011 6:38 pm  
"Noctifer" wrote:
How, then, ought we to consider the value, or worth, of "humanity", with all that it entails? ?

Sorry to sound trite, but it is what it is. In the range of human consciousness we scale wonderful heights as well as dark depths. Primordial consciousness creates entities through which it experiences itself. Sorry to sound like a demented parrot, but we're back with the analogy of a theatre in which Brahma is playing all the roles, though immersed in each part. No matter how rich, pure and intense becomes our awareness of the underlying stata of consciousness from which the panoply springs, we still have our parts to play.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
06/08/2011 6:47 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
I am curious as to your thoughts about the purpose, if any, if our illusory experience of duality as if it were reality, Micheal. Specifically, is this experience voluntary or involuntary? How is it accurately to be regarded and, therefore, engaged? Or, is it to be seriously engaged at all? That sort of thing.

I don't think there is a purpose, Camlion, in the sense of a reason for existence. You can see it in terms of the first Chapter of Liber AL, "For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union". It's the noumenon experiencing itself through phenomena, the Kia experiencing itself through the Zos, Nuit experiencing itself through Hadit.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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06/08/2011 6:51 pm  

I didn't realize that Noc and I asked the same sort of question, sorry...


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5384
06/08/2011 10:00 pm  
"Noctifer" wrote:
... depends more upon the quality of consciousness of individuals with access thereunto than it does the date in mundane terms ... the Aeons of which Crowley (and Grant, Nema, Achad) speaks emerge directly out of and of humanity whereas the Yugas most probably haven't even noticed we're here.

Please allow me to make two [2] observations.

(1) This thread was started by myself with a link to a written document, well illustrated, which essentially said these things that you just said. If one has never been there, my audio-visual website that deals exclusively with these same concepts is available at: See link below after qualifying comments.

The problem is, this is the long path. I just sat here and watched this site unfold like a motion picture (which it is - of sorts). I believe all bases were (are) covered, and I should probably found a religion based on it, but that's too much trouble. The other part of the trouble is that one is going to sit there for about an hour watching this display, and I suspect that's too much for most people of any bent - we're all so busy, you know?

So my rcommendation would be to go to the website, and watch the FIRST FULL PAGE unfold (about 5 minutes?) and only as much after that as you are amused or interested. But then you can jump to THE LAST PAGE - The SUMMARY, if you know the secret link (given below).

The whole show starts at:
http://age-of-iron.angelfire.com /"> http://age-of-iron.angelfire.com/

The seret link to the SUMMARY is:
http://age-of-iron.angelfire.com/yuga09.ht m"> http://age-of-iron.angelfire.com/yuga09.htm

If you need to skip the audio-visual fun, here is my one-long-line summary of it all:

Our Aeons begin with what is called the beginning of recorded history, somewhere around 3000 BC, which includes the introduction of TWO calendars: The Mesopotemian-Egyption Solar Calendar and the Mayan Lunar Calendar (never mind the Chinese - that is mixed Solar-Lunar); that's all, and it's close to what Crowley described; but this beginning of our Aeons also coincide with the beginning of Kali Yuga. We are in what the Pope would call, "Deep Shit!"

(2) Just like everything else, these doo-dads (the cycles and patterns of cycles) are holographic. This is fortunate for us, because even the big picture (the Great Breath of Brahma) is reflected down into vast epochs, then eventually yugas, with Grand Equinoxes (of 26,000 years) and Aeons (of 2000 or 2500 +or- years) being just minor subdivisions or a yuga. There are two things that become appent:

(a) Our Aeon history starts with the beginning of Kali Yuga and the Mayan calendar, which is also the beginning of recorded history. More or less; this is merely a general concept and is not subject to nit-picking, except by nit-wits, but it gives us a marvelous starting point around 3000 BC, which is something we can understand (sort of).

(b) Thank the holographic Lord (his name is Holo), because all these theoretical beliefs and theories are eventually reduced (reflected) down into soething we can understand without any doubt:
One Lifetime

I have now lived long enough to know this is true (this year in November, my physical age will meet, and then exceed, that of Aleister himself). These Aeons are spread across one life, four stages of growth and decline.

Isis- Childhood - dependent on Mama 'til about 13.

Asar - Adolescent & Young Adult - like his (her) father before me, I'm a travelin' man - learning by cause and effect - the death & resurrection of ideas, ideals, jobs, relationships, etc - up to 35 or 40. This phase ends with the conscious realization of one's mortality (i.e., impermanence).

Hoor - The Middle Ages - the maturation of the individual. The perception of "meaning" within life. Individuation (Jung's term). Up to 58 (some say 56?).

Maat - Striking the Balance - Gettin' Ready to Meet the Saints. Anyone who has moved into his or her 60's knows all about this internal Aeon. Things (paradigms) take on a whole new depth and meaning.

Now these ages are approximate and it really depends on the evolutionary state of the individual ("... depends more upon the quality of consciousness of individuals with access thereunto ...") as to how many are actually perceived.

Homer said, "Look, I was very clear in my writings. An AEON refers to a life - a lifespan."

The least developed might be a person who is born retarded. His mother takes care of him, but he may be cared for by an institition - a substitute mother. He never passes beyond the simple need of nourishment; he never leaves his Aeon of Isis.

Once that emoto-mind kicks in, along with some semenal-ovarian drive, a person will take life on directly. These folks are sentient, selfish and subject to the spin of the roulette wheel. IAO. This is the Osirian phase; most humans DO NOT EVER GET OUT of this state. Ever. They do not see Horus - they do not Pass "Go" - yet; it's the coming thing, you know, this individuation.

It takes a glimpse of the Light to enter the Aeon of Horus within your own temple and time. That Light is only seen in conjunction with Death, so you know we're talking about initiation now.

Blessed are those who fight the war 'twixt Horus and Set, and live through the truce. The scales of Ma'at are a'waitin' everyone just the other side of Death. If you step up to that bar before you have died, then welcome to the Aeon of Hrumachis in your elderly age.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5384
07/08/2011 8:52 pm  
"wolf354" wrote:
Just a small remark ... to watch the site use Internet Explorer (Firefox ignores the sound).

Yeah - Thanks for that. I usually say it with every link to my sites - where the sound has been criticized by the critical observers, but in this case ("The Age of Iron") the sound is pretty cool and highly appropriate.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
09/08/2011 3:04 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
"Noctifer" wrote:
... depends more upon the quality of consciousness of individuals with access thereunto than it does the date in mundane terms ... the Aeons of which Crowley (and Grant, Nema, Achad) speaks emerge directly out of and of humanity whereas the Yugas most probably haven't even noticed we're here.

Please allow me to make two [2] observations.

(1) This thread was started by myself with a link to a written document, well illustrated, which essentially said these things that you just said. If one has never been there, my audio-visual website that deals exclusively with these same concepts is available at:

[snip]

[ http://age-of-iron.angelfire.com/ ; Summary: http://age-of-iron.angelfire.com/yuga09.htm ]

(2) Just like everything else, these doo-dads (the cycles and patterns of cycles) are holographic. [snip]

Thanks for this Shiva, always a pleasure to read your work! 😀


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Keith418
(@keith418)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 127
13/08/2011 5:47 pm  

I always saw the Maat stuff as more than a little sad. One person told me, back in the '80s, that they liked the Maat material because they saw it as a needed "balance" against the amoral individualism that Crowley taught. I think this said it all.

The lack of really interesting or provocative Maatian material is indicative of the kind of "deadness." After all these years, what has anyone really been able to do with that stuff? There aren't any Maatian journals or vibrant, productive communities of adherents. Instead, it looks more like a kind of affectation or mild interest people pick up and drop again as it suits them. There's never a lot of depth to it that I can see.

I see in the origins for this kind of "superficiality" in the current itself. Maggie insists that some of the "Forgotten Ones" are actually about "altruism." I have read my share of HPL, and I find it hard to reconcile her humanistic and pseudo-Christian reading of these entities with the horrors he mentioned. This always seems like an attempt to make something potentially frightening and transgressive into something sweet and domesticated. That's always going to give you a boring result.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5384
13/08/2011 7:41 pm  
"Keith418" wrote:
... a needed "balance" against the amoral individualism that Crowley taught. I think this said it all.

Actually it might have only said that the person who thought this thing had not yet entered that realm. The balance is not to be struck against Crowley or his wanton ways; the balance arises within the individual (and eventually within the general consensus reality) as a truce or an end of aggression between Horus aqnd Set.

I am implying that Crowley specifically designated the Great Work to be the Knowledge & Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel - his appointed "next step" for the human race (plantwide, no less)! Thus, he calls humanity's attention to Tiphereth, where the individuation (of Jung) takes place; it's known as the abstract mind and the causal plane. It's the real New Age if one strips away the glamour and the "prosperity" plea. Each child, each Horus, must come out of the egg as the Individual of Crowley.

Then I'm saying outright that this Ma'at concept simply represents a "higher plane" than Tiphereth and the HGA. The battle between Horus & Set (or any other quaint dual symbolism) is resolved in the Abyss, as the higher and lower cease to exist. The Ma'at stuff is stored at Binah (the so-called Buddhic plane). So this would be the "next" "next step" for humanity. Crowley said that Binah is the first plateau, but he knew the common man was still stuck in the past and needed to come up to speed. Transhimalaya says this is the natural level of consciousness of a human (i.e., intuition), but right now humans are strugglish to get across the astral plane to contact their Solar Angel.

"Keith418" wrote:
... The lack of really interesting or provocative Maatian material is indicative of the kind of "deadness." After all these years, what has anyone really been able to do with that stuff?

Not very much because It's All in the Future for most of mankind. I suspect that Achad (as an individual, within his own Universe) might have entered his Aeon of Ma'at in 1948. Crowley might have entered the Aeon of Horus in 1904. But in both these cases, and probably a lot more, it takes a while for the world to catch up with changes on the higher levels of consciousness. Ra-Hoor-Khuit took his Seat in the East all right, but not on the physical plane. (I would suggest that He - or Hadit - did make a physical plane appearance in 1945 here in New Mexico. The Trinity Test Site is just an hour as the crow flies south of my home.

"Keith418" wrote:
... There aren't any Maatian journals or vibrant, productive communities of adherents. Instead, it looks more like a kind of affectation or mild interest people pick up and drop again as it suits them. There's never a lot of depth to it that I can see.

That's right, because it's all in the future. The new prophet has not arisen; he has not brought fresh fever from the skies. The "next" Aeon (of Hrumachis and Themis and Ma'at and [finally] Justice) is currently scheduled for implementation in a millenium or two. Come back then for the Journals, written by some Aleister Crowley in a bunch of Books called The Solstice.

In the meantime, it is implied and openly stated that these Aeons may arise in a single life. This suggests that perhaps age (and experience) are factors that see if one (any one individual) can pass into Ma'at. Those that do, find their vocabulary and experience is not exchangeable, even with other "occult students" - pehaps "adepts" as well. They understand each other through a quality that is not mental, and they start using words like bodhisattva or paranirvana, because they have to look deeper into the East than Crowley had taken them if they want to see their experiences explained.

They start dropping hints of Ain Soph Aur, and who could possibly talk about something so "high" or "abstract" or "way-out-there" as these levels are like cosmic equations rather than a place to be. Well, as we all know, these states can be entered with legal psychedelics - by those who can get there (or "find themsef suddenly there") while entranced in their mind.

So, just because reference is made to Shamballa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambhal a"> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambhala
or to The City of the Pyramids or (oh no!) The Aeon of Ma'at, this doesn't mean that posters (members) are necessarily claiming high degrees of understanding, but simply that they've been there and it's not all theoretical.

"The Aeon of Ma'at is within you," cried the mad prophet in the distant future.

Two further considerations:

(1) The fours Aeons of Crowley (and their relevance to even larger scale cycles in the next level "up" in the cosmic hologram) can be directly experienced, more or less, depending on who you were in your last life, or who sent you here to Eath to be among mortals, in about four hours with a legal psychedlic libation - it helps to apply those rites and practices for maximum clarity.

(2) But if he could go there with a psychedelic, wouldn't that imply that he held that "grade" - at least somewhere "up the known line?"

Yes, there is always that consideration.

"The Aeon of Ma'at is within you," cried the mad prophet in the distant future. "And it's a long way in the future for the sons and daughters of men."


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Keith418
(@keith418)
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Posts: 127
13/08/2011 8:55 pm  

"The reader is most strongly urged nor to permit himself to indulge in fantastic flights of thought, which are the poison of the mind, because they represent an attempt to run away from reality, a dispersion of energy and a corruption of moral strength."

- AC

I read this passage and thought about the Maatian stuff - which, with its positing of the future - seems just like what he's talking about here. The Christians and the Jews have "heaven" and the "Kingdom of God" and I suppose the Maatias have the "future" in the same sense. It looks like it's all coming from the same place to me. I examined one of Maggie's books and saw her extolling "compassion" again and again. To me, this looks less like the "future" and more like the herd morality of the past.

Someone once noted that at public readings of Liber Al, people seem to love the first chapter, get a little skittish at the second, and are positively antsy and unhappy by the time the third rolls around. Maat offers the fretful and worried a way back to love, equality, compassion and comfort - it's like a way to have just the stuff you like from the first chapter ("Mama Nuit"), and more! I was never interested or impressed, and I think it never really goes anywhere because there is no creative tension of conflict created by it. It's just a milk-sop for the frightened. Even they get tired of that after awhile.

The original Bate Cabal stuff at least had illustrations that looked weird and edgy. But Nema has seen fit to join the general pattern of making magick safe and domesticated for the masses. This is what they say they want, after all, isn't it?


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5384
13/08/2011 9:56 pm  
"Keith418" wrote:
"The reader is most strongly urged nor to permit himself to indulge in fantastic flights of thought, ... an attempt to run away from reality, a dispersion of energy and a corruption of moral strength."

Keith says: I read this passage and thought about the Maatian stuff - which, with its positing of the future - seems just like what he's talking about here. The Christians and the Jews have "heaven" and the "Kingdom of God" and I suppose the Maatias have the "future" in the same sense. It looks like it's all coming from the same place to me.

Perhaps you missed the point of it all. It lies in the future for humanity. It can be discussed because it is based on experience, not belief in a heaven (which DOES exist - high on the mental plane, a part of the illusion), alas!

If one can experience these states, not as flights of fantasy, but as modes of consciousness that can be called in (invoked, not evoked) and practically applied, then the fantasy angle is dissolved. I am implying that this can be done, not merely positing the "if" of a theoretical discussion.

There are no Maatians. There may be Martians, but there are no Maatians, except as you say, in passing fancy. There might be a few die-hard adherents of the temple of Ma'at. You are not attempting to diminish the stature of part-time dabblers are you? There are more gods in the Aegyptian Armory, Horatio, than one or two guys or gals. Anyway, I suggested there's a gap in communication, and not only in time. In the meanwhile, let's remember:

"Justice come out of the end of a gun-barrel" - misquote of Mao.
"The Ronin is Judge, Jury and Executioner" - Liber Xin(?)
"Ma'at is karma" - what else can we say?

It seems the suggestion has been made that this silly Ma'at stuff is dreamy wishful thinking. Well, of course it is if one applies it to the world of international politics where strife is so rampant with Horus versus Set.

Eventually, it will all resolve back into Pralaya, and along the way it will have to get balanced before Judgement Day. (Judgement Day is the point in time where the cosmic balance-scale reads "Zero."

But I will say this, if one attains this Ma'at stuff IN CONSCIOUSNESS before their physical body expires, well that would be better than going out fighting like Horus & Set.

Again: The "drift" here is the attainment of internal balance within the individual. Not in the future, but in the eternal now.

The fables of Ma'at, implied in the Book of the Law, are little prophecies to keep us thinking.
In the Bible of slain Osiris, Revelations held a similar position. A prediction of things to come, with pits and Beasts and angels, that nobody could understand.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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14/08/2011 4:26 am  

Keith, you still haven't answered any of the points I mentioned in my previous responses to your posts, but your latest assertions are so flimsy I simply can't help myself this time either.

Mostly because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about when you start talking about Nema.

"Keith418" wrote:
"The reader is most strongly urged nor to permit himself to indulge in fantastic flights of thought, which are the poison of the mind, because they represent an attempt to run away from reality, a dispersion of energy and a corruption of moral strength."

- AC

I read this passage and thought about the Maatian stuff - which, with its positing of the future - seems just like what he's talking about here.

LOL !

...and like, nothing Aleister Crowley ever wrote in his "positing about the future", the past, or present, could possibly fall into this category?

You really think Crowley isn't being a massive hypocrite here?

LOL! He was a brilliant man, but he was also a bit of a wanker at times.

The Christians and the Jews have "heaven" and the "Kingdom of God" and I suppose the Maatias have the "future" in the same sense.

But that's what the Crowleyans (like you) have too. The Aeon of Horus and all of Crowley's writings about it - notwithstanding the mystery of The Next Step - is Futurism, or what Asimov would call Psychohistory, it's all conjecture based on a book of prose-poems and some of Crowley's thoughts thereupon. It's all "New Age", which I suppose we have Blavatsky to thank for. Sorry, you can't not judge Crowley by the same standards you're judging the Maatians. They're all occultists, they all do the same stuff.

It looks like it's all coming from the same place to me. I examined one of Maggie's books and saw her extolling "compassion" again and again. To me, this looks less like the "future" and more like the herd morality of the past.

"Compassion is the herd morality of the past".

LOL

Have you ever heard of human history?

Find me compassion as a herd morality of the past and I will give you a million bucks.

Compassion isn't a morality, it's a pragmatic requirement of social intercourse among people who aren't autistic sociopaths on crystal meth or crack or whatever it is that turns people into moral insects.

That - apart from the fact it's quite satisfying for complete, mature human beings without serious mental health issues - is why people advocate Compassion. It is necessary from a pragmatic point of view. (Sentimentality and excessive guilt-laden crap is something else entirely, and I think this is what Crowley was attacking when he says "compassion" - he never knew actual, real compassion in his personal life, not as a child, rarely as an adult. He was messed up in so many ways).

The original Bate Cabal stuff at least had illustrations that looked weird and edgy. But Nema has seen fit to join the general pattern of making magick safe and domesticated for the masses. This is what they say they want, after all, isn't it?

Have you ever seen any of Nema's paintings that she did in the 70s and 80s, such as those reproduced in Grant's books?

Have you ever read any of Nema's magical instructions?

Such as this? http://www.parareligion.ch/dplanet/staley/nema3.htm

Makes Crowley (and all his works) look like a scone-baking Nanna by comparison. You want hardcore? Nema does hardcore.

Sorry, you simply look like someone trying to use some of Crowley's writings to excuse or support (or authorise!) your own irrational phobic reaction to the the simple fact that other people and consideration for them is inevitable feature of Society, which, in turn, is an inevitable feature of human existence for those of us not in solitary confinement.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
14/08/2011 4:47 am  
"Keith418" wrote:
I always saw the Maat stuff as more than a little sad.

You know what? Lots of people - millions, in fact - see the Crowley stuff as even sadder! Especially when it attracts sociopaths in the way attested so robustly by the history of anything bearing his name.

One person told me, back in the '80s, that they liked the Maat material because they saw it as a needed "balance" against the amoral individualism that Crowley taught. I think this said it all.

It does say it all, actually.

But what says even more is the fact that ANYONE needs a book to tell them what to do and how to be! Isn't this the saddest thing of all?

Here you are, still banging on about what Crowley says, as though it's right because it's something he said! You sound more like a Bible-basher with every post.

I haven't seen a single example of scientific thinking in anything you've posted. Nothing but "Crowley says... Crowley says.....". Replace "Crowley" with "The Lord" and you get my point.

If you take your instructions on "how to be" from a book, ANY book, you're already fucked.

The lack of really interesting or provocative Maatian material is indicative of the kind of "deadness." After all these years, what has anyone really been able to do with that stuff? There aren't any Maatian journals or vibrant, productive communities of adherents.

XD

Ever heard of SilverStar, the journal of Horus Maat lodge which has been going for some time now? Clearly not. Or the Cincinatti Journal of Ceremonial Magick, which was for many years one of the cutting edge occult journals around?

What have you ever produced, beyond Crowleyite forum posts?

Nema's work influences a great cross section of occultists, from Oryelle Defenestrate-Bascule (is that interesting or provocative enough for you?) to Kenneth Grant to Bate Cabal to Witchcraft exponents and beyond. What's more, there is a great sense in which her published work is specifically suited for solo practitioners, so you're not likely to have much advertising going on.

Ignorance combined with arrogance doth not a robust student of the Mysteries make.

I see in the origins for this kind of "superficiality" in the current itself. Maggie insists that some of the "Forgotten Ones" are actually about "altruism." I have read my share of HPL, and I find it hard to reconcile her humanistic and pseudo-Christian reading of these entities with the horrors he mentioned. This always seems like an attempt to make something potentially frightening and transgressive into something sweet and domesticated. That's always going to give you a boring result.

But you're the one who comes across like a Christian. Not because you're saying feel-good stuff, but because you "believe and obey" Crowley in precisely the same uncritical, unexamined, sheep-like manner that he himself despised and set out to confront!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
14/08/2011 5:07 am  

Thelema is, for me, about the realisation of Heaven in the present, the Now, and acting accordingly. Other people and compassion for them are non-negotiable elements thereof, or it simply isn't any Heaven I want to be a part of.

If this is to be challenged, let the challenger exemplify the alternative, and let success be his proof, where success = indisputable self-evident truth beyond any possibility of criticism (just like in science 😉 ).

Until then, Computer Says Noooo.

Much as I adore Crowley and so much of what he did and stood for, he's the last example I'd pick for an emotionally healthy model upon which to base human behaviour or society.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
14/08/2011 6:03 am  
"Noctifer" wrote:
Thelema is, for me, about the realisation of Heaven in the present, the Now, and acting accordingly. Other people and compassion for them are non-negotiable elements thereof, or it simply isn't any Heaven I want to be a part of.

If this is to be challenged, let the challenger exemplify the alternative, and let success be his proof, where success = indisputable self-evident truth beyond any possibility of criticism (just like in science 😉 ).

Until then, Computer Says Noooo.

Much as I adore Crowley and so much of what he did and stood for, he's the last example I'd pick for an emotionally healthy model upon which to base human behaviour or society.

You are going to flip out...

... I agree with you, Noc. 🙂


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Keith418
(@keith418)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 127
14/08/2011 6:05 am  

I looked at some of the Maatian material again and it reminded me of a very bland and New Agey approach to HPL & Thelema. I was also reminded of the way Achad went back to Roman Catholicism. He couldn't hack the harshness of Thelema and tried to get around it any way he could. We see the same thing over and over again - but it never lasts and no one seems to do much with it.

I think the people who like Lovecraft in their occultism can do better than this. At least HPL could be scary.


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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14/08/2011 6:56 am  


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5384
14/08/2011 4:13 pm  

Philosopher's Note

Many people refuse to abandon domination in their late 50's;
they purposely remain aggressive and potent in old age;
this leads to difficulties at the end;
for how can one depart in peace if one is not already equilibrated ?

..................... - from The Aeon of Ma'at


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Keith418
(@keith418)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 127
14/08/2011 5:06 pm  

The occult community often believes it values "diversity." Does it? When anyone deviates from the moral, PC norm, or offers a dissenting opinion or perspective, I don't see that same embrace of diversity present.

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."

- William F. Buckley, Jr.

Are there other views on Maat? Sure there are. What is a negative judgment on them such a problem? I don't understand why people aren't invested in exploring possible criticism of the Maatian current, when they are sure willing to criticize Crowley's character, prejudices, morals, political beliefs, etc.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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14/08/2011 6:23 pm  
"Keith418" wrote:
I was also reminded of the way Achad went back to Roman Catholicism. He couldn't hack the harshness of Thelema and tried to get around it any way he could.

lol, really? Achad spent many days and nights living inside of a tent for Thelema, and you think some stupid set of ideas or what-not eventually ended up being "too harsh" for him?

Whatever you may want to think about Achad, he certainly was not a coward.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5384
14/08/2011 6:30 pm  
"Keith418" wrote:
The occult community often believes it values "diversity."

What "occult" community? Lashtal is not an "occult" site. How "often?" What "diversity?" You mean where everything under the Sun gets flashed in its turn?

"Under the Sun." Hmmm. Perhaps we should now tear down the Temple of Ra - He's a shining example of leftist intent. Or is it rightist bent? Anyway, he just keeps shinin' along. He never stands still (except in certain biblical accounts - "And the Sun stood still"). He's so boring. I see so few journals about the Sun.

"Keith418" wrote:
I don't understand why people aren't invested in exploring possible criticism of the Maatian current ...

Invested? As in "putting energy and effort into" a demeaning sideshow where Ma'at is undressed and laughed at - because she's so bland?"

"Possible criticism?"
As in taking over a whole thread and saying it's all poo?

That we should love amoral Crowley and forget karma too?
That we should all repeal the law of karma, neglecting that stupid cause-and-effect clause in the Law?

"Keith418" wrote:
... when they are sure willing to criticize Crowley's character, prejudices, morals, political beliefs, etc.

This is the home of the Aleister Crowley Society - he is our hero. He wrote the Libers that guide us - he even referred to [ oh no; don't say it! ] Ma'at as the Magister Templi (MT) of the AA (AA). Get it? It's a play on letters and words. But it's also a point that's been made aways upstream in this very thread.

On the other hand, he (AC) sure left himself open to reflection on his strange ways. Any criticism of his persona is just to remind everyone that he was human, and kranky at times. He was just a person, like you and like me. Well, not like me, 'cause I'm so morally pure. The "reminder" is so that we remember: It's sometimes hard to tell ...

Which is Frater Perdurabo, and which is the demon Crowley?

Note: The exact quote, from the man himself is ...

"So wrote not FRATER PERDURABO, but the
Imp Crowley in his Name.
For forgery let him suffer Penal Servitude for Seven
Years; or at least let him do Pranayama all the way home ...
And yet who knoweth which is Crowley, and which is
FRATER PERDURABO?"

Even HE knew the difference. Or if he didn't, he was aware that there were two guys.

Now this thread about the slick chick who is "known" only by Zero, the Fool, has been chopped into sides: the left and the right. Or was it the liberals and the conservatives? Weren't they once called Tories and Whigs? How quaint.

Instead of posting a picture of twiddly dorks, let me remind you that you can yell all you want, but someday after Horus you'll stand before ...


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herupakraath
(@herupakraath)
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Posts: 470
14/08/2011 8:05 pm  

So, just how does Hrumachis, the "double-wanded one" who is to assume the throne of the hawk-headed mystical lord, translate into Maat? Hrumachis appears to be a variant of Harmachis, which is the Hellenized form of Hor-em-akhet, which translates into "Horus in the horizon" in Egyptian language. I also note that Harmachis is considered to be the god of the double-equinox, the god of the double-axe, and so on, an indication the double-wand is appropriate to him based on Egyptian myth.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
14/08/2011 8:48 pm  
"herupakraath" wrote:
So, just how does Hrumachis, the "double-wanded one" who is to assume the throne of the hawk-headed mystical lord, translate into Maat? Hrumachis appears to be a variant of Harmachis, which is the Hellenized form of Hor-em-akhet, which translates into "Horus in the horizon" in Egyptian language. I also note that Harmachis is considered to be the god of the double-equinox, the god of the double-axe, and so on, an indication the double-wand is appropriate to him based on Egyptian myth.

I think that we find the first reference in Crowley's "Old Comment", when re remarked:

Following him [Horus] will arise the Equinox of Ma, the Goddess of Justice, it may be a hundred or ten thousand years from now; for the Computation of Time is not here as There.

In the "New Comment", speaking on the same verse:

Note the close connection between Leo and Libra in the Tarot, the numbers VIII and XI being interchanged with XI and VIII. There is no violent antithesis as that between Osiris and Horus; Strength will prepare the reign of Justice. We should begin already, as I deem, to regard this Justice as the Ideal whose way we should make ready, by virtue of our Force and Fire.

Crowley does not to my knowledge give the basis for his attribution, though in this passage from Liber Aleph he equates Maat and Truth:

Now this Ox is the letter Aleph, and is that Atu of Thoth whose Number is Zero, and whose name is Maat, Truth, or Maut, the Vulture, the All-Mother, being an image of Our Lady Nuit, but also it is called The Fool, who is Parsifal, ‘der reine Thor’, and so referreth to him that walketh in the Tao.

Finally, regarding the reference to Atu VIII above, this passage from The Book of Thoth:

This woman-goddess is Harlequin; she is the partner and fulfilment of The Fool. She is the ultimate illusion which is manifestation; she is the dance, many-coloured, many-wiled, of Life itself. Constantly whirling, under the phantom-show of Space and Time: all things are real, the Soul is the surface, precisely because they are instantly compensated by this Adjustment. All things are harmony and beauty; all things are Truth: because they cancel out.

She is the goddess Maat; she bears upon her nemyss the ostrich feathers of the Twofold Truth.

I don't know what Crowley's basis was in making these parallels, though.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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