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Alejandro Jodorowsky


 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Are there any known connections between Crowley and Alejandro Jodorowsky, except the fact that they seem to share a lot of fans?

93 93/93


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 104
 

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I doubt. Friend of mine is a teacher of French and Spanish. I read her (still) unpublished translations of his books. He is interesting and reading of his books is not wasting the time (at least he has sense for humor), but I would like to compare him more with Castaneda, for example, than with Crowley. Anyway, she met Jodorowsky in Paris. Her description was : charming and fun. Also, Zoran Janjetov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoran_Janjeto v"> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoran_Janjetov ), comics artist from my city, knows Jodorowsky very well. His coment about Jodorowsky and the occult was "Don't take this too serious".
BTW, you can notice that Jodorowsky works with Tarot cards. His choice of deck was not Rider-Waite or Thoth Tarot. His choice was Tarot de Marseille. Jodorowsky is, very possible, strange combination of neo-shamanic new age ideas and french esotheric tradition. Maybe I am wrong, but this is my current impression. Also, Kenneth Anger's opinion about Jodorowsky you can find here on the Lashtal site (http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/module-subjects-printpage-pageid-85-scope-all.phtm l"> http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/module-subjects-printpage-pageid-85-scope-all.phtml )

Love is the law, love under will.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Good question.

Yes. There is.

Aleister Crowley -> Kenneth Anger -> Alejandro Jodorowsky.

Who is Kenneth Anger?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Anger


Alejandro Jodorowsky with Kenneth Anger, Ordo Templi Orientis: Aleister Crowley.

Source: Anger interview mentioning Jodorowsky
http://jodorowsky.tribe.net/thread/f12ecd85-5338-450d-a807-8eb485ce5ac4

Kenneth Anger speaks about Jodorowsky:

BG: I've read that various directors [Olivier Assayas, Paul Schrader] have been interviewed for a documentary about you.

KA: The [documentary's] director is connected to the Ordo Templi Orientis. He's not a cameraman; he's what you would call an enabler. It was
his idea to do a documentary, [interviewing] people like Alexandro
Jodorowsky
without me present.

I've known Jodorowsky for 20 years or more; I'm thinking back to when I was living in London and he came by to see me with Dennis Hopper when I was filming Lucifer Rising.

BG: Do you like Jodorowsky's films?

KA: I admire him as an artist. I believe strongly in animal rights,
so his scenes of slaughtering chickens and so forth – I don't find
that at all funny; I find it disturbing. I'm not myself a chicken, in
the sense that I'm not squeamish. I've been through wars and
revolutions and riots, but I happen to draw the line with animals.

We remain friends, though we have a big difference on that concept. I've talked it over with him several times, and we decided
that was his artistic adolescence. As someone who had a beloved
rabbit when I was four years old, I'm not going to just sit back and
smile at slaughter. I consider his films to all be one film –
they're a river named Jodorowsky. You raft your way down it, there's rapids and whirlpools and all kinds of things. "

😈

Also,

Aleister Crowley -> Kenneth Anger -> Alejandro Jodorowsky -> Marilyn Manson -> Lady Gaga's ALEJANDRO. (no, really.)

Beware... 😈

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_Jodorowsky

http://www.youtube.com/?v=gWnk0YRPwJ0

Alejandro Jodorowsky: filmmaker, playwright, composer and writer. His most notable works include El Topo (1970), The Holy Mountain (1973) and Santa Sangre (1989).

Jodorowsky is also a PSYCHOMAGICIAN: 😈

"Psychomagic is also the name of a therapeutic practice used by Alejandro Jodorowsky. The technique is alleged to be useful in psychotherapy. It combines art, Eastern philosophies (particularly Zen Buddhism), mysticism and modern psychotherapy to allegedly heal patients with emotional problems. The principle relies on the belief that the unconscious mind takes a symbolic act as a fact. So a symbolic act could accordingly help solve some types of non rational conflicts. These acts are prescribed by the therapist after having studied the patient's personality and family tree."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychomagic

John Lennon gave 1 million dollars to Alejandro Jodorowsky after he saw his movie El Topo.
Salvador Dali accepted to perform for him.

Lennon had seen El Topo and been awe-struck by the film, and had persuaded the Beatles' manager, Allen Klein, to distribute the film and provide financing and distribution for The Holy Mountain. Lennon was not, however, available to star in the film. Jodorowsky gathered the cast for his new film, and they spent a month living communally in Jodorowsky's home taking Arica training, which was an amalgam of Zen, Sufi, and yoga, with additional philosophy derived from the teachings of Gurdjieff, alchemy, the Tarot, the Kabala, the I Ching, with a liberal dose of LSD and other psychedelics. Jodorowsky, his wife Valerie, and the main actors in the film also went a week without sleep under the training of a Japanese Zen master prior to shooting. After this ritual had been finished, the ritual of The Holy Mountain began.

He has been described as an influence on such figures as MARILYN MANSON, Peter Gabriel and David Lynch.

Jodorowsky is also a playwright and play director, having produced over one hundred plays, primarily in MEXICO where he lived for much of his life.

In 1962 he founded the Panic Movement along with FERNANDO Arrabal and RO[land ]TO[por].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Arrabal

Fernando Arrabal and Jodorowsky


Fernando Arrabal


Alan Moore: Chaos Magician 😈




The Technofathers: Jodorowsky's Comic.

After John Lennon watched Jodorowsky's "El Topo", he gave 1 million dollars to Jodorowsky, to produce his movies. This started the 'midnight movies' phenomenon, actually.

Original news in The Times:

Cinema: Cosmological Circus
By HP
Time.com;JAY COCKS Monday, Jun. 28, 1971

"Every midnight for the past seven months, the Elgin Theater in New York City’s Chelsea district has presented a screening of an exceedingly curious and especially arresting film called El Topo (The Mole). An allegorical western made in Mexico by a Chilean-Russian stage director named Alexandro Jodorowsky, El Topo has not been shown at all outside Manhattan; reviews, aside from the underground press, have been few and mostly negative. Nonetheless, the film has been kept alive by word of mouth spread by a burgeoning band of fierce partisans. Dennis Hopper had it screened at his home in Taos, N. Mex., and quickly promised to star in Jodorowsky’s next movie, which will be financed by Universal.

For all the furor El Topo is neither a cathartic masterpiece, as its disciples believe, nor a con job, and Jodorowsky is neither messiah nor mountebank. There are scenes of brilliance in El Topo, followed by sequences of unwieldy pretension. The film is by turns comic and profound, hysterical and pompous, fully complex enough to deserve more than a simple yea or nay.

Pastiche of Satire. El Topo begins with the kind of burning, indelible imagery that promises great moviemaking. Dressed in black leather, the protagonist comes riding across the desert, his small son naked behind him on the saddle. Reaching a town that was recently the scene of a massive slaughter, he guides his horse over festering corpses, through puddles of blood steaming in the desert sun, and rides out again, seeking vengeance. He finds the villains, homicidal clowns wearing elaborate bandit outfits, and dispatches them in an orgy of dispassionate bloodletting.

This sequence, a pastiche of satire, homage and serious allegorical narrative, is the best part of the film. But when El Topo (played by Jodorowsky) leaves his son in the village and rides off for a series of gun battles with four holy men, the film turns diffuse and flirts with total disintegration. After a series of opaque symbolic adventures, El Topo is reborn as a kind of Zen saint who performs mummery for money in a Western town that serves as a crude mock-up of contemporary America. Eventually he is killed by his son, now fully grown, who rides off into the sunset with El Topo’s dwarf wife and her newborn son, an image that strongly recalls the Holy Family’s flight into Egypt.

Stylistic Reminders. Cluttered almost to the point of CHAOS, El Topo often flounders in a deluge of religious and pseudoreligious symbolism, of parables, epigrams and jokes. There are plentiful stylistic reminders of other film makers, notably Bunuel, Welles and Sergio Leone. One of the film’s more vigorous fans wrote that Jodorowsky’s library has “thousands of volumes covering every imaginable subject.” El Topo almost appears to contain at least a fragment from each, so that it has the look at times of a richly illustrated concordance. But many of the references —like much of the symbolism—are never assimilated, which only serves to make the film forbidding and unwieldy.

Jodorowsky’s is perhaps a prodigious, certainly a prodigal talent. What is most bothersome is not his chaotic cosmology but his coldness. He is so obsessed with allegorical meaning that El Topo misses any kind of full human resonance. It is instead a vivid if ultimately passionless passion play.

Jay Cocks”
Source: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2004163_2004187_2004197,00.html



Jodorowsky's comic, Sang Royal.

Fernando Arrabal

Apparently, the main character in 2012 was loosely based on Daniel Pinchbeck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pinchbeck

Alejandro Jodorowsky recently met Daniel Pinchbeck.

The whole interview can be watched here: http://www.youtube.com/?v=9wvi4nR5KuQ

Alejandro Jodorowsky at MARILYN MANSON's wedding:

MARILYN MANSON, who is heavy into the OCCULT, introduced Lady Gaga, who is heavyly into the occult as well to Alejandro Jodorowsky. John Lennon gave 1 million dollars to Alejandro Jodorowsky after he saw his movie El Topo.

http://www.youtube.com/?v=niqrrmev4mA

I know that we are young
And I know that you may love me
But I just can't be with you like this anymore
Alejandro

She's got both hands
In her pocket
And she won't look at you (won't look at you)
She hides true love
En su bolsillo ======> [spanish: in his pocket]
She's got a halo around her finger
Around you

You know that I love you boy
Hot like MEXICO =======>

Jodorowsky is also a playwright and play director, having produced over one hundred plays, primarily in MEXICO where he lived for much of his life.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_Jodorowsky

Rejoice
At this point I've gotta choose
Nothing to lose

Don't call my name
Don't call my name
ALEJANDRO
I'm not your babe
I'm not your babe
FERNANDO =======> ¿Fernando Arrabal, founder of the Panic Movement along with Alejandro Jodorowsky and Roland Topor?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_Movement

Don't wanna kiss
Don't wanna touch
Just smoke my cigarette, hush
Don't call my name
Don't call my name
ROBERTO =======> ¿ROland TOpor, founder of the Panic Movement along with Alejandro Jodorowsky and FERNANDO Arrabal?

Alejandro
Alejandro
Ale-Alejandro
Ale-Alejandro

Stop
Please, just let me go
Alejandro
Just let me go

She's not broken
She's just a baby
But her boyfriend's like her dad
Just like a dad
And all those flames that
Burned before him
Now he's gotta firefight
Gotta cool the bad

You know that I love you boy
Hot like MEXICO
Rejoice
At this point I've gotta choose
Nothing to lose

Don't call my name
Don't call my name
ALEJANDRO
I'm not your babe
I'm not your babe
FERNANDO
Don't wanna kiss
Don't wanna touch
Just smoke my cigarette, hush
Don't call my name
Don't call my name
ROBERTO

Alejandro
Alejandro
Ale-Alejandro
Ale-Alejandro

Don't bother me
Don't bother me
Alejandro
Don't call my name
Don't call my name
Bye FERNANDO
I'm not your babe
I'm not your babe
Alejandro
Don't wanna kiss
Don't wanna touch
FERNANDO

Don't call my name
Don't call my name
Alejandro
I'm not your babe
I'm not your babe
FERNANDO

Don't wanna kiss
Don't wanna touch
Just smoke my cigarette, hush
Don't call my name
Don't call my name
ROberTO

Alejandro
Alejandro
Ale-Alejandro
Ale-Alejandro

"Lady Gaga's "Alejandro" (and its accompanying video) is fast becoming a hugely iconic song. Not only is the video full of deep-rooted religious meaning and the song brimming with gay-friendly messages, but its title character also becomes the most famous person ever named "Alejandro."

But what other people named Alejandro are on that list? Here are the most famous Alejandros, many of whom are film directors.

Alejandro Jodorowsky: Legendarily freaky Spanish film director most notable for his freaky 1970 psychedelic Western "El Topo," a favorite film of John Lennon. Most recently, he attempted to get a project off the ground that involved the following people: David Lynch, Marilyn Manson, Nick Nolte, Udo Kier and Asia Argento. Had that actually happened, Jodorowsky would have easily been the top Alejandro. "

Source: MTV. http://newsroom.mtv.com/2010/06/09/alejandro-lady-gaga/

Jodorowsky's The Holy Mountain:

Lady Gaga's Alejandro:

Jodorowsky with Manson

Lady Gaga performs Alejandro with an Angel on stage:

http://www.youtube.com/?v=gaL8gPu3KDI

Michael ArchANGEL:

Alejandro Jodorowsky, recent picture, with ArchAngel Michael:

😈

LED ZEPPELIN - Jimmy Page, Black Magick, Kenneth Anger & Lucifer Rising

http://www.youtube.com/?v=COx58jiPxSM

Jodorowsky is also a Tarologist. He has revamped the Tarot of Marseille with Philippe Camoin ( http://www.camoin.com )

These are the cards in his version of the Tarot of Marseilles:








http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelema

Liber LXV Liber Cordis Cincti SERPENTE
sub figûra - Astrum Argentum:

http://lib.oto-usa.org/libri/liber0065.html

V.V.V.V.V.:


Her symbol is remarkably similar to the Egyptian ankh and her shrine, excavated at Sarepta in southern Phoenicia, revealed an inscription that related her securely to the
Phoenician goddess Astarte (ISHTAR).

Source: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neit


Phonetic QABBALAH: Lady Gaga and the GOLDEN DAWN = DOWN:

Alejandro Jodorowsky in Holy Mountain, as the Alchemist:

Lady Gaga dressed as the Alchemist: shoes similar to Alejandro's

Sequence from Jodorowsky's The Holy Mountain:

Source: http://www.the-equinox.org/

Lady Gaga and the Astrum Argentum (Edward ALEXANDER Crowley):

Moderator's Note: Copyright infringing link removed.

Jodorowsky's The Holy Mountain sequence:



Lady Gaga and Marylin Manson:

http://www.youtube.com/?v=vjNDHqS7ieM

Subliminal message? 😈

disco stix = diXcoXtiX = XXX = 666

Aleister Crowley's HARPOCRATES sign:

Manson performing & the magickal sign of HARPOCRATES:

Ordo Templi Orientis symbolism:

Alejandro Jodorowsky in The Holy Mountain:

ORDO TEMPLI ORIENTIS symbolism:

Beware of Alejandro: he's a TRICKSTER. 😈



References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_Jodorowsky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_Movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley - Edward ALEXANDER Crowley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrum_Argentum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis

...hussssshhh......

😈

oh. incidentally...

Who Knows...

That's his son in the last image, Adanowsky.

Obviously, everything might just be COINCIDENCES... 😆 😉


...husssssh...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

For some reason I've never felt compelled to explore Jodorowsky's mystic writings but I'm a fan of his film and graphic novels.

My favorite graphic novels of J's are Son of the Gun, White Lama, Metabarons and Technopriests. To my knowledge there has yet to be a complete English translation of the latter two series which blows 'cuz they not only tie into each other, they're based on characters from The Incal, which a lot of people hype but... I dunno, perhaps I'm missing something but I thought it was overrated.


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
 

While discussing folks without a clear cut connection to AC is frowned on here, Jodorowsky seems a close enough association by proxy to be safe.

I venture there are many artists with little or no direct connection to AC who are meritorious. Rimbaud springs to mind. I'm not aware of Crowley ever mentioning him directly but Arthur's writings are rife with esoteric references to alchemy and his synesthesia. A collection of his work would sit well on any Thelemite's bookshelf. The same holds true for many other artists. They may not be connected explicitly but they seem to be on the same current and worth a look.

S


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2855
 

i think i have a headache from all the obnoxious blinking red strobes. and im not sure mr eshelman (sp?) would be happy about you linking to a pirated copy of his book. esp. when beautiful hard covers of them can be got from him officially for free shipping for less than 30 dollars and its indispensable in it's usefulness for any Thelemite.
That said , for your first post it was interesting informationally , devnull, you just need to tone it down a bit is my opinion. only my opinion...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

"For the magician-poet Aleister Crowley the most important advice is:
Do as thou wilt."

Alejandro Jodorowsky's official account @Twitter, Jun 6, 210.
http://twitter.com/#!/alejodorowsky/statuses/15544793582


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michaelclarke18
(@michaelclarke18)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1264
 

Rimbaud springs to mind. I'm not aware of Crowley ever mentioning him directly but Arthur's writings are rife with esoteric references to alchemy and his synesthesia.

Could you give an examlpe please?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"wolf354" wrote:
Quoting Liber Al 1:40 in a Spanish quick translation is hardly a clear influence of Crowley on his work... I think.
Best regards,

With all due respect wolf354, I would kindly suggest that, instead of naively expecting a "Me, Alejandro Jodorowsky hereby solemnly declare my relationship to Aleister Crowley" signed in blood declaration, that you take some time to check out his work, his movies, his books, his novels and his comics.

There are loads of different LAYERS of meaning in his work. Definitely worth the trip.

Then you might begin to wonder why Fernando Arrabal (the most prolific dramaturge in the world and Jodorowsky's colleague at the Panic Group) said that none other han Eugene Canseliet (Fulcanelli's "disciple", yeah) looked for and finally met Jodorowsky for some small talk...

Aleister Crowley did claim to be Eliphas Levi's reincarnation.

"In the same way that I consider Gurdjieff my spiritual father, I consider Eliphas Levy my grandfather. He had the genius to revalue <span style="font-size:24px]."

July 24th, 2010: http://twitter.com/#!/alejodorowsky/statuses/19442484655

Incidentally... ever ocurred to you that Aleister Crowley might have intended for his audience to learn to think ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uı and to learn to extract meaning from his books and teachings in a spɹɐʍʞɔɐq sort of way? 😉

Might there be any kind of message in ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ in here?:

"Crowley made a mistake: instead of becoming a servant of the Tarot and the others, he wanted to become a messiah. His Tarot is poisonous."

July 24th, 2010: http://twitter.com/#!/alejodorowsky/status/19444694860

When it comes to Jodorowsky, there a certain role that I have found to fit him best:

AMBIGUOUS <span style="font-size:24px]. 😈

...maybe in the same vein as Crowley? 😉
...maybe in the same vein as Kenneth Anger?

remember... do NOT play with Black Magic! 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COx58jiPxSM

Jean Cocteau (among so many other people) also worked with Jodorowsky.

(i.e. at Jodorowsky's La Cravate, 1957. Cocteau wrote the intro for him.

Other crew
Jean Cocteau .... writer: introduction

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121731/fullcredits#cast )

Jodorowsky usually cites some of his words every now and then.



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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Regarding Jean Cocteau:



Last message of the Initiate Jean Cocteau, Part I:
http://www.andrewgough.co.uk/lastmessage.html

Last message of the Initiate Jean Cocteau, Part II:
http://www.andrewgough.co.uk/lastmessage2.html

There are also some interesting threads about Jean Cocteau at Andrew Gough's forum.

...husssh...

93 93/93


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
 

You can talk about *anyone* that managment deems connected to AC. Thats within the rights of Lashtal managment and clear in the TOS.

AJ appears to have that connnection at least through the content of his work and his connection to Hopper and Anger.... What is more important to the thrust of my statement is there are many artists who's work resonates with Crowley who havent put his "Sign of Vir" photo on a poster or T Shirt.... I think the enegery spent trying to find an explicit connection is best expended on researching the mans work and digesting it s *layers*

"michaelclarke18" wrote:

Rimbaud springs to mind. I'm not aware of Crowley ever mentioning him directly but Arthur's writings are rife with esoteric references to alchemy and his synesthesia.

Could you give an examlpe please?

Have you read any Rimbaud?
Have you read Outside the Circles of Time? I reference the chapter Monstrous Soul...

Again my point is that many artists resonate on the same "channel" if you will. They do not or cannot reference Crowley (as in Rimbaud's case) but their work is most definitely complimentary and worthy of exploration.

I have sent more on this to you via PM to prevent this thread from becoming a carnival of trying to literally interpret symbolist poetry.

S


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michaelclarke18
(@michaelclarke18)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1264
 

Have you read any Rimbaud?
Have you read Outside the Circles of Time? I reference the chapter Monstrous Soul...

Yes, both.

But could you not give anything more specific, with regards to Rimbaud?


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
 

I already have to your PM - its a long reply and off topic for this thread.

My point is that there are artists who have never made an explicit mention of Aleister Crowley (Rimbaud couldn't have) but their work is still pertinent and worth exploration in the context of a mystical or magical journey.

http://www.mag4.net/Rimbaud/poesies/Alchemy.html
I can already see this translation being dissected line by line now and I just dont want to open that can of worms when my point should be clear. Its independent of Rimbaud... You can replace him with Jordowoski or even artists like David Lynch and Arthur Machen dealing with the experience of perichoresis...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Incidentally,

From: Alejandro Jodorowsky. Psychomagic: The Transformative Power of Shamanic Psychotherapy

http://books.google.com/books?id=a8XndJPQVO4C&lpg=PA49&dq=rimbaud%20jodorowsky&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q=Rimbaud


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
 

Wolf, I am at a loss as to your complaint. I am saying that he is connected to the Crowley "zeitgeist" enough that he is a valid topic of discussion. It was a minor aside in my original statement but one you seem fixated on. Jodorowsky has come up several times on the forum in various threads. I am not aware of any direct connection to AC and I am not at all bothered by that. Some of the most interesting topics are those artists who are connected to the spirit of the Aeon rather than directly to AC himself.

Scott


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5330
 

Locked. There's a fascinating discussion to be had about Jodorowsky, but, unfortunately, this thread isn't it!

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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