Notifications
Clear all

Liber Pennae Praenumbra  


 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

A request for info. What is the book by Kenneth Grant in which Liber Pennae Praenumbra is discussed in a detailed way? Thanks.


Quote
Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4119
 
"loveisthelaw" wrote:
A request for info. What is the book by Kenneth Grant in which Liber Pennae Praenumbra is discussed in a detailed way? Thanks.

Beyond the Mauve Zone (Starfire Publishing Ltd., London, 1999) has three chapters analysing Liber Pennae Praenumbra. There are many references to the book in Outside the Circles of Time (Muller, London, 1980; soon to be republished by Starfire).


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

Thank you MichaelStaley for the info. Beyond the Mauve Zone is very hard to get nowadays, anyway, I'll try to find a copy. Thanks again.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

What exactly is it in Nema's system that is improved? All I learned is that they want to pretend its already the Aeon of Maat or something, with the 'word' of 'Ipsos' which I have not learned it means much at all... What exactly does this whole system add beyond a lot more confusion? More focus on females?

65 & 210,
111-418


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Aum418" wrote:
What exactly is it in Nema's system that is improved? All I learned is that they want to pretend its already the Aeon of Maat or something, with the 'word' of 'Ipsos' which I have not learned it means much at all... What exactly does this whole system add beyond a lot more confusion? More focus on females?

65 & 210,
111-418

The gall!
If a new system is not a focus of Aum418's belief structure, I believe its garbage. I wouldn't even take the time to read it.

Utter rubbish.


ReplyQuote
kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1958
 

loveisthelaw-

Mauve Zone is nigh impossible to come by! HOWEVER, Circles of Time has LOADS of stuff relevant to Nema, Liber P-P, Aeon of Maat etc and it shouldn't cost an arm and a leg when Starfire offers it anew this year. In the meantime, there's a lot on the web, for free, to visit regarding P-P.

Aum-

I'd advise going into Nema with a genuine interest and the Weapons of the Child (with a tip of the hat to Son of the Star on the Magick Tools thread), otherwise I think this conversation may just turn into another tiresome "Battle of the Aeons."

My perspective is that the Beast taught the Work of the Sword and Wand-and the Priestess of Maat came to teach the work of the Cup and Disk. So yes, there really and truly IS

More focus on females

But I hardly regard these things as lock-stock and barrel COMPLETE. Everything keeps opening. And as Papus once observed, the diversity of experience, expression etc all provides elements which we alchemically synthesize into our Magickal Universe, or as he put it, "Personal Doctrine."

To think we're dealing with 2 Aeons here is quite limited. We're dealing with Aeons within Aeons, energy streams which can't even be defined as "Aeons." I find Nema to be a very useful point of development in terms of the Thelemic Parlance with which we are all quite familiar. But I personally don't think one needs to be restricted by the language and when it does begin to cinch, it can be sloughed off.

Have you ever gotten to a height in understanding where its fresh and powerful and doors blast open and you didn't just read about it-you really GOT THERE? And there's this feeling of ecstatic growth and vision which at the same time impresses deeply that this is only the iceberg's tip-and it will always be this way? An intersection of understanding that it's CONTINUOUS? One is neither humbled nor proud-those categories break away and its like the volume on LIVING has been turned up, ears unstopped, new sounds heard in a song you've listened to for YEARS and you laughingly can't believe you hadn't heard it that way before?

Far more than Crowley, Nema has opened up possibilities for the female magician. AC was all about the Magickal Child being "My SON" but Nema lived and expressed and offered a different route (LOL-by another Mouth!)

I think this goes beyond some occult Woman's Lib deal-it's a development of AC's vision of the "epicene" which first brings about a type of rhythm in polarized psycho-sexual energies and then uses that state to open up into further realms of human possibility.

If NEMA's work in this field intrigues, I think its of great value. If not, I think its a waste of space to debate it ad infinitum. As we've already discussed on previous threads, there are MANY paths and doors into the Palace (if you want to stop at four, so be it). It's not typically a sign of one following out their Will with its corresponding Success to need to justify its unfoldment by convincing anyone else of its veracity. That would be imposition of a Reality Tunnel, something the door to doors give sweat and foot-tread to all the time and hardly needs to be aped as "Promulgation of the Law of Thelema."


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"APKD" wrote:
"Aum418" wrote:
What exactly is it in Nema's system that is improved? All I learned is that they want to pretend its already the Aeon of Maat or something, with the 'word' of 'Ipsos' which I have not learned it means much at all... What exactly does this whole system add beyond a lot more confusion? More focus on females?

65 & 210,
111-418

The gall!
If a new system is not a focus of Aum418's belief structure, I believe its garbage. I wouldn't even take the time to read it.

Utter rubbish.

I couldnt discern a coherent message in your post - I wish I could reply to something though...

kidneyhawk: thank you for your answer to my questions. I learned a lot from your post - I may sound judgmental, but its only because what I have come across from her and her followers is extremely unconvincing. Success is your proof. If there is success, then so be it - I just do not know of it. Anyways, I was honestly interested. THanks.

Far more than Crowley, Nema has opened up possibilities for the female magician. AC was all about the Magickal Child being "My SON" but Nema lived and expressed and offered a different route (LOL-by another Mouth!)

Honestly, I think that if people thought that the Crowned and Conquering Child or even the Magickal Child refered only to a male, they were extremely skewed in their understanding of the child. One aspect of the child is that it is balanced/hermaphroditic/dual-natured - i.e. controls alike the powers of active and passive currents.

Aside from that I agree with much of your post - I am just interested in how this idea system has brought any success to people.

210 & 65,
111-418


ReplyQuote
amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
 

'word' of 'Ipsos' which I have not learned it means much at all...

Um...Masculine Plural Accusative of ipse -a -um [self] = "Themselves"? Just a thought (seems to go quite well with 'every man and woman is a star' ie each their own sun/centre.)

(There was also a Battle of Ipsos in 301BC - arguably not relevant, though you could probably tease something out - defeat of Antigonus ending any real hope of the reunification of Alexander's Empire as symbolic of the final overthrow of the monolithic Old Eon?....)


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  
"APKD" wrote:
Utter rubbish.

So why should such an erudite occultist as Kenneth Grant bother to comment it in the first place, if it were, as you say, "utter rubbish"?

For one thing, there are individuals in this world who say that Liber AL is"utter rubbish". So what? Is it "utter rubbish" to you?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
loveisthelaw-

Mauve Zone is nigh impossible to come by!

I know, it usually does sell for around 250 GBP in the used book market.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

There are some excellent adepts working with the Thelema-Maat tradition, def. worth checking out, even if one may disagree with the principles.

Nema has an online magickal lodge, http://www.horusmaat.com /"> http://www.horusmaat.com/

Orryelle Defenstrate's site, which is linked there, is really cool too.


ReplyQuote
Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 104
 

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

I haven't experience with Maat Magick, never tried this. I only read Maat Magick, some numbers of Cincinaty Journal and Soror Nema's papers called Macedonian Lectures. More than 6o pages about chakras and atavisms. Very good stuff in my opinion.

Love is the law, love under will

HPK


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Wizardiaoan" wrote:
There are some excellent adepts working with the Thelema-Maat tradition, def. worth checking out, even if one may disagree with the principles.

Nema has an online magickal lodge, http://www.horusmaat.com /"> http://www.horusmaat.com/

Orryelle Defenstrate's site, which is linked there, is really cool too.

93 all!

Wizardiaoan, thanks for the link! As someone rather new to Thelema as a whole, I had not as of yet heard of the Thelema-Maat tradition, and was rather intrigued with what I did read when I clicked on the link and began to check out the site.

On the one hand, I was rather intrigued by the mentions made of the likes of Robert Anton Wilson, and Timothy Leary, due to the fact that my own background and personal magickal work up until this time has been heavily influenced by their work. One of the great struggles I had upon my resent embracing of the Law was that I was uncertain as to whether I would wind up leaving behind the very ones who had inspired me so deeply, since I didn't think they were connected with Thelemic thought at all. Upon some thought, it occurred to me that the works of the above mentioned were, actually, not at all discordant with Thelemic thought whatsoever, in so far as that their work is about waking the human mind up from its' dreaming state, for the sake, essentially, of finding one's true Will. The Thelema-Maat tradition is the first that I've come upon that's done so, and for this reason I'm rather intrigued by what it may have to offer.

On the other hand, part of me wonders if it hasn't missed the mark, just slightly. It speaks about the 696 Current as the ushering in of the daughter, after the coming of the son with the 93 Current, and I'm wondering if this isn't slightly beside the point. Through my own understanding of the child, he/she is completely hermaphroditic, able to work with both passive and active energies as he/she so chooses. Through my own experiences, too, as I've begun to work with the 93 Current, a great deal of work has been done already in learning to maintain a careful balance of energies, being neither overly passive nor overly active. I do not yet completely understand the symbology of the Child, but if this is, from my understanding, the Aeon of the Child, and we are, each one of us Children, then it would go to show just why the imagery of the Child as hermaphroditic would speak to me as strongly as it has, as I learn to achieve my own balance of the masculine and feminine energies alike.

Therefore, doesn't talking about ushering in the Aeon of the Daughter after the Aeon of the Son is over miss the point that, as kidneyhawk put it so well, we really are dealing with "Aeons within Aeons,"? Doesn't that therefore make the hermaphroditic child (assuming that he/she is truly hermaphroditic) with his/her balancing of the energies, defeat the purpose of the need to usher in this new Aeon?

Forgive me, if I've rambled on a bit about this and have not made my questions 100% clear...I'm struggling to understand some concepts that are utterly new to me here, and so the explanations in regards to my reflections on this are not quite as concise as I would like for them to be.

That said, I'd be curious to get people's thoughts on the above questions, as well as their opinions on this tradition and its' work with the 696 Current. Thanks to everyone who cares to share their thoughts!

93,
Stephanie


ReplyQuote
Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2964
 

93,

As usual, the idea of Linear and non-Linear time come into play.

In the same video on Quantum Physics "What the Bleep??", there was a very nice example of this. I forget the term they used, but they showed how one can separate an Electron, and move one part of very far from the other (to the other end of the Universe in their terms, but I highly doubt they were able to experiment THAT far! 🙂 - when they did this, whatever occured to one half of the Electron instantly and simulatneously caused an exact response in the other half of the Electron.

They used this example as proof that this entire Universe is completly inter-connected at all times. This is of course, NON-Linear. In a non-Linear idea of Space-Time, all things are connected and do occur at once (such as this idea of the various "Aeons" and "Currents" running around). In a Linear idea of Space-Time, all things have a definite order and value, based solely on the power of the observer, who may then act as he or she so chooses, to whatever benefit may be foreseen.

Thus, in a NON-Linear idea, all Aeons and Currents do simultaneously exist. In a more common phrase, "one has already Attained". However, in a Linear idea, one still may not have realized it yet. Refer to the comments between AUM418 and myself in "The Writings of V." thread concerning Lola Daydream. Current Linear Consciousness determines ones focus and sense ability to interact with the perceived idea of Linear Space-Time. This idea is taken from the multitudes of ideas which are invariably present within Non-Linear Space-Time.

In your mind the door has already been opened, and you have walked through. The bills have already been paid and you have a bit of money left to buy that new book. In reality, the door is still closed and you have yet to even touch the handle, and the bills aren't due for another week.

The Duality of the Time-Space Continuum, perhaps...

93 93/93,

Az


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Azidonis" wrote:
93,

As usual, the idea of Linear and non-Linear time come into play.

In the same video on Quantum Physics "What the Freak??", there was a very nice example of this. I forget the term they used, but they showed how one can separate an Electron, and move one part of very far from the other Az

Is called 'Spooky action at a distance' - I believe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_at_a_distance_(physics).

Also with some relevance to the thread is that something exists when it is viewed or measured. Before this it simultaneously is both things or everything. Such as light can be a wave or a photon. It becomes something rather than either thing or everything in terms of reference to itself once the viewer deems it so.

V interesting stuff indeed.

Best,

Mer


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

A thought: Maybe Einstein's SPOOKY is actually a formula of Quantum thus. Summa Pi Infinity K=Coulomb's Constant applied to the Y axis (representing energy state).


ReplyQuote
Sonofthoth
(@sonofthoth)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 45
 

I saw this Liber mentioned in "Outside The Circles Of Time" by Kenneth Grant, I'm wondering if anyone knows to obtain it? (either physically or as a pdf?)

Maat is not currently a branch that I know much about yet but I've heard interesting things about Pennae..... in my attempts.

If anyone can help, it would be much appreciated


ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1768
 

This document --- "The Book of the Foreshadowing of the Feather" --- is in several publications: in two, you'll find a holograph is reproduced in Kenneth Grant's Beyond the Mauve Zone; meanwhile the text along with commentary is also in Soror Nema's own Maat Magick.

I think there's also (at least) a couple of threads discussing it on Lashtal --- I know there's definitely one on Maat because it got locked shortly after I'd contributed to it.

"May Maat fly thee without fear", as 'tis said.
Norma N Joy Conquest

"Edit" --- whups! In some haste I thought this was a single post on its own when I tried to be helpful and reply, only to discover that it was instead at the end of one of the threads mentioned itself! But being unable to delete it completely, and also finding it difficult to step into a time machine to go back and rectify the matter, it seemed best to just let it stand with this addendum. And as far as I know those two particular books are still in print.


ReplyQuote
Sonofthoth
(@sonofthoth)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 45
 

After listening to the podcast from 'Thelema Coast To Cost'*, where they talked to Nema herself (#26)

I was refered by Nema to this site:

http://horusmaatlodge.com/index.html

I guess it's nice to have the stuff up online, on a well-designed looking site. Still, it'd be nice to have more direct access to it (rather than having to refer to the internet), like I have with most of my Thelema books (aka lots of physical books plus PDFs on my phone for random access throughout the day, in case)

Still, I'll be looking at investing in the "Maat Magick" book sometime soon, which has some of the transmissions included in it.

*ps. It's sad they ended, it's a nice podcast to refer back to and just listen to in general


ReplyQuote
frater_anubis
(@frater_anubis)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 242
 

@Sonofthoth

This Liber can be found on several websites if you google it

https://hermetic.com/wisdom/pennae_praenumbra

this one looks like a pdf

http://online.fliphtml5.com/lobg/ffmn/#p=6

And here's a copy in French, which you can use google to translate

http://www.alohatemple.org/Theorie/Liber Pennae Praenumbra.html

Johnny


ReplyQuote
Sonofthoth
(@sonofthoth)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 45
 

Thank you very very much @frater_anubis
You have been a big help!

93 🙂


ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1768
 

Sorry, @sonofthoth, I was going by your own words and thought it was actually your personal preference to have access to a physical copy rather than just an electronic one, here:

I guess it’s nice to have the stuff up online, on a well-designed looking site. Still, it’d be nice to have more direct access to it (rather than having to refer to the internet), like I have with most of my Thelema books (aka lots of physical books plus PDFs on my phone for random access throughout the day, in case)

Otherwise, of course, I might have offered up some pdf sources instead as well. 
Still, you appear to have managed to get there in the end by hook or by crook, which is the main thing I suppose. I trust you found the French translation helpful!

N-Joy


ReplyQuote
arthuremerson
(@arthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 157
 

Sonofthoth,

I have a copy of Maat Magick that I'd be happy to part with on your behalf, free of charge. PM me to work out details and I'll post it to you as soon as I can.

Very best,
æ


ReplyQuote
Share: