Notifications
Clear all

The 8-Circuit Model of Consciousness - The Eight Basic Winner/Loser Scripts

Page 6 / 6

David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  

So maybe there needs to be a Chakra thread as I think we've gone off course.

 

Where were we? Oh yeah, 8 circuits.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @dom

there needs to be a Chakra thread

Um, the chakras were being discussed in relation to the 8 circles. Not Off-topic at all. However, I have posted by chakra chart, with reference to the circuit chart, and (as stated) I have no need to continue on chakras.

Please feel free to continue the 8-ring circus.

 


ReplyQuote
David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

there needs to be a Chakra thread

Um, the chakras were being discussed in relation to the 8 circuits.

So the Chakras line up with the Circuits? Really?  How can any one Chakra be associated with the 5th circuit when the 5th Circuit is a metaphysical i.e. physical as in the entire body with all of it's Chakras.    

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1825
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

If it was not for the Rosetta Stone, we would have no concept of Egyptian language and how to decipher hieroglyphics,

It would have come along sooner or later, eventually.  The Rosetta stone wasn't a sine qua non, without it it would have just delayed things (the conception and the deciphering) that's all.

Posted by: @shiva

You are attempting to construct a duality.

Yes, it's difficult to construct anything which doesn't involve duality in this duality-basedconstrained universe we live and all have our being in.  Your advice on how to transcend this and explain it in writing would be most valuable, please.

N Joy


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @dom

Really?

Yes.

Posted by: @dom

the 5th Circuit is a metaphysical i.e. physical as in the entire body with all of it's Chakras.

I admit to being lost and cannot even begin to understand your point or question. The chakras appear in all the subtle bodies, including the etheric-physical and the astral, excepting those above the abyss.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

It would have come along sooner or later, eventually.  ... that's all.

That's all? A fictional, "would have" supposition. Are you discussing alternative timelines?

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Your advice on how to transcend this and explain it in writing would be most valuable, please.

It's in my book(s). The transcending is portrayed as being temporary. Prison Planet and all that, although I don't use that scary word in the book(s). Final trandescending is reserved for really high degrees. Please see U.G. for his detailed account. Note that he states, "You don't have a chance!" He offers no practices, saying, "Enjoy yourself the best you can." What a practical fellow.


ReplyQuote
David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

Really?

Yes.

Posted by: @dom

the 5th Circuit is a metaphysical i.e. physical as in the entire body with all of it's Chakras.

I admit to being lost and cannot even begin to understand your point or question. The chakras appear in all the subtle bodies, including the etheric-physical and the astral, excepting those above the 

Yes I know that but the first 4 Circuits only deal with the 3D mundane don't they? Comparing both systems is therefore conflicting.......or confusing.

Then again a plumber who tries to solve a pipe problem in a hotel may have to discuss the electrical system.....but no, not really only indirectly for what he's there for.

Sangewangchuck sees a match between Circuit 4 and the Heart Chakra, yeah ok but do the others match up? Really? No they don't.  The result of finding the alignment between the 4th Circuit and the Heart (4th)  Chakra would be like an electrical shower in a hotel room, the plumbing and the electrical system match up for that purpose but for most of the other functions they don't e.g.the valve in the toilet has nothing to do with the satellite TV connection other than that they both provide general comfort for the hotel customer.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @dom

So the Chakras line up with the Circuits? Really? 

Yes

Posted by: @dom

How can any one Chakra be associated with the 5th circuit when the 5th Circuit is a metaphysical i.e. physical as in the entire body with all of it's Chakras.    

  • Robert Anton Wilson would be rolling in his grave if he heard you take something he wrote and then use it to hold a conviction about what he wrote. Oy Vey!
  • ALL CHAKRAS are metaphysical.
  • RAW meant that this chakra OPENS the initiate into a new dimension of being that transcends normal waking consciousness and what it perceives reality to be.
  • This means that SOMATIC awareness is the first "metaphysical" experience we can relate too, making "metaphysical" a more easy and human concept to understand. Our experience does indeed transcend the physical environment we are moving around in.
  • Non controversial
  • This "metaphysical" circuit plays out in social evolution in ways that are historical.

This means a critical mass forms within a "niche" when culture produces many 5th circuit adepts

Posted by: @dom

Sangewangchuck sees a match between Circuit 4 and the Heart Chakra, yeah ok but do the others match up? Really? No they don't. 

  • I believe that they do not line up in your map, although I have not seen any evidence of this I take your word that you are confused on the matter as factual 🙂
  • They DO Line up in my map, however, all of them
    Posted by: @dom

    The result of finding the alignment between the 4th Circuit and the Heart (4th)  Chakra would be like an electrical shower in a hotel room, the plumbing and the electrical system match up for that purpose but for most of the other functions they don't e.g.the valve in the toilet has nothing to do with the satellite TV connection other than that they both provide general comfort for the hotel customer.

    Your model of the plumbing and electricity only works when 3D reality is real. Imagine aligning a metaphysical plumbing with real physical electricity. That is what this operation is doing. AND! you can even create your own metaphysics! (with a warning of course, just because you create it doesn't mean it automatically works either )

  • Chakras are not real and you continue to model and language them as if they are. This informs me that this is the area you have a contradiction in your mind that is unresolved, you believe something is true in some way when it is not true in the way you believe it to be.

  • With my model of the 8 circuit brain, which aligns with the chakra system, I can make predictions. Even better, Tim Leary himself made predictions against his model, and even though his entire model is total bullshit pseudoscience, his PREDICTIONS held up.
  • EDIT: His predictions were not about what the architecture of a building plan SHOULD look like, but rather he predicted historical cycles that MUST play out if he is correct.

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @dom

Yes I know that but the first 4 Circuits only deal with the 3D mundane don't they

By definition, the first 4 circuits are terrestrial (pertaining to Terra or Earth) - nothing has been said (yet) about 3D. Malkuth, the 1st circuit is 3D. @,3, & 4 lie in a 4th dimension (everything below Paroketh).

Posted by: @dom

Comparing both systems is therefore conflicting.......or confusing.

I am personally not conflicted or confused. I have put forth my correlations. I do not insist that anyone buy or use them. I do not wish to assert or defend any given equivalency. I was merely confused about your grammar/context.

Posted by: @dom

Sangewangchuck sees a match between Circuit 4 and the Heart Chakra, yeah ok but do the others match up?

I have worked with SW56's application. It didn't work for me. But I could make a case for it.

 


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

It didn't work for me.

what work were you attempting, mind if I ask? 

Learys model inverts the metaphysics, meaning that you would NOT want to use his model for any form of traditional or ceremonial magick, you would not put Leary's system in 777. You would put it onto history and into the sciences, and more importantly, you would put it into the high art of Science Fiction <<< I love how that paradox is self transcending hehe

 

EDIT: Pls allow me to explain this better. Metaphysics relates to our inner reality, private, subjective, mystical, etc. * circuit brain is the OPPOSITE of that. It is projecting the inner intelligence onto the shared environment outside of us.

I could make the case that in Leary's system, the "alchemy" of it is making the spiritual, material, or literally bringing spirit into matter with all the predictive and measurable qualities matter brings.

Mind and consciousness is NOT matter 🙂 (or it is if we want to get esoteric about void and matter, etc)

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56
  • Your model of the plumbing and electricity only works when 3D reality is real. Imagine aligning a metaphysical plumbing with real physical electricity. That is what this operation is doing. AND! you can even create your own metaphysics! (with a warning of course, just because you create it doesn't mean it automatically works either )

  •  

 

Oh ok so the Chakras are here, there and everywhere and so they can actually relate and correspond to the 8 circuits?  Right, well anything goes then and we could just ramble on about this vague fuzzy subject all we want.  It's the Alice in Wonderland tea party then.   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

By definition, the first 4 circuits are terrestrial (pertaining to Terra or Earth) - nothing has been said (yet) about 3D. Malkuth, the 1st circuit is 3D. @,3, & 4 lie in a 4th dimension (everything below Paroketh).

@dom I think I understand a bit better how Shiva is modeling, so along these lines, all of Leary's model is in 4D (adding time, important here), and circuits 5-8 are then either destroying, assisting, or developing on top of the 4D model. By the time we are at circuit 8 (which is identical to the level of Buddha in terms of Circuit 8 Stage 3) Past Present Future is all one.

Remember one of the "keys" in Leary's teachings...higher intelligence, aliens...The Aliens are US in the Future. The message COMES to us FROM THE FUTURE.

Who else is the future? Harpocrates. Hoor Paar Kraat.

The future is always silent.

Your own very higher circuits are already in the future amigo 🙂

Your very own angel is also in the future, right now.

The transcendent will always appear as the future in the 4D perceptions of Samsara/Mind

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @dom

It's the Alice in Wonderland tea party then.   

It is an ART and a SCIENCE

Now that you got the art part, put the science back in!

Circuits map INTELLIGENCE only.

meditate on your first chakra. AWAKEN the deeper intelligence of circuit ONE. FEEL it in the bottom of your feet as it moves on the earth. IMAGINE a chakra at your base spine. Your spine is naturally designed to feel something like a chakra there, but only based on how the spine moves in 3D, the physics of how it works and moves.

Once you have created your chakra, then seek to be in harmony with the universe.

Donzo.

Follow your bliss.

Help others

build an awesome civilization, imagine in sci fi

pretty simple all in, really 🙂

 

NOTE: Dom, you have unresolved internal contradictions around ART and SCIENCE. Resolve that contradiction and immediately these circuits can play together.

 

EDIT: What you IMAGINE (chakras, channels, dieties, doesnt matter) is the TANTRA. It is what actually rewires your brain and body like a geneticist can re-write DNA code, but it is doing it from the subconscious out!)

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

what work were you attempting, mind if I ask? 

There is only one work, common to all aspirants: To balance the mind (so that it comes into a zero balance) in order to go beyond it. QBL, including all these models we apply to it, is nothing more than a tool for ordering the mind. Once we get it ordered along one line or another, we "ascend" to the next level ... where we take on many systems, and we must synthesize them into a single alignment (net balance = zero) before taking the next step.

You said it yourself ... if some system doesn't work for you, it's time to get a new system (of chakras or circuits, or whatever). "Every initiate must build his own Qabalah." (- A.C.).

Posted by: @dom

ramble on about this vague fuzzy subject all we want.

Even though SW56 and I disagree on a certain attribution, our vision is neither vague nor fuzzy. It is you who dumping it all into fairyland because you have not personally brought them into alignment. Your alignment. Any alignment that works to free the mind.

I have already drawn the line as to "all we want." I am happy to discuss the greater principles, but I defer from arguing the small points. I have nothing to sell, win, or lose, and everybody must build their own QBL.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Leary's model is in 4D (adding time, important here)

I subscribe to the hypothesis that time is not the 4th dimension. This definition is suitable for general application, but Time is found at Binah. You know, Father Time. Actually Time is transcended at Binah.

My 4th dimension is the Astral Plane, which includes emotional charges linked to thoughtforms (Yesod-Hod-Netzach). There are even higher (more expanded) dimensions or planes, but all of them still have a Time factor perception.

 


ReplyQuote
David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  
Posted by: @shiva

There is only one work, common to all aspirants: To balance the mind (so that it comes into a zero balance) in order to go beyond it. QBL, including all these models we apply to it, is nothing more than a tool for ordering the mind. Once we get it ordered along one line or another, we "ascend" to the next level ... where we take on many systems, and we must synthesize them into a single alignment (net balance = zero) before taking the next step.

Planes and Chakras and circuits.   The activity involved in switching on Circuit 5 and controlling the first 4 Circuits thereby comes first, the activity in the Chakras and Planes comes next as a natural consequence of that.   Someone who is bound by the first 4 Circuits only will, in our cultures be compelled to snuff a lot of e-motional expression in themselves day to day, this is done automatically unconsciously using their muscles.  Each Chakra dominates a muscular region and each Chakra is either inert or active/working.  When we work on activating Circuit 5 we get the inert Chakras working again.   Someone who has one inert Chakra will have imbalances as you know because the other Chakras are then overworked.  Dr Reich called this "armouring". 

If someone e.g. doesn't grieve during a loss then the emotion of sadness is locked up in certain muscles and the appropriate corresponding Chakra will become inert.   Chakra colour-therapy can change the imbalances done with pranayama of course.   Smoking the Circuit 5 neurotransmitters i.e. weed although activating the Neurosomatic Circuit this will not heal an imbalanced person, they have to come down and come back (after the high) to their inert Chakras.

 

When I had a reiki teacher work on me she couldn't understand how the energy she pushed up from my feet flowed openly and naturally.  Most people jam the energy.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 

Havent had a moment yet to fully catch up on responses, but in meantime @shiva, a question for you if you do not mind.

Where would you put Tim Leary's Eight Circuit Model itself on the Tree of Life?

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @dom

Dr Reich called this "armouring". 

His methodology is now taught to massage therapy students everywhere. They usually learn Swedish (relaxing), deep tissue (painful), acupressure, Chines massage (Tui-na), etc. The "Deep Tissue" massage is taught pretty much as you described it. A few folks go on (after graduation and licensing) to become specialists in this modality.

Jurisdictions vary, but massage therapy is a major cover for prostitution, so it's tightly controlled by the Shire-Reeve or the Po-lice. For an extra 270 to 500 hours of training, one can become a Holistic Health Practitioner (HHP). That's where they learn about energetic healing (Chi Gong), the chakras, etc. After receiving this esoteric information, and passing the test(s), the establishment lightens up on them and the restrictions on their license are much freer (example: No surprise walk-in inspections).

There are a couple "Bibles" for this training. One is BodyMind, the other is Hands of Light.

The muscles not only get tight and pushy, but if kept up over time, they stick together (the facia or covering of muscle bundles sticks).Then the condition is permanent (unless released). The deep tissue / Reichian bodywork iinvolves separating the facia ... and that not only hurts physically, but the therapist must be prepared for all kinds of emotional outbursts. Manually applied phsychtherapy.

You have pretty much summarized the holistic approach as it applies to Body-Mind work.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Havent had a moment yet

Busy people are happy people.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Where would you put Tim Leary's Eight Circuit Model itself on the Tree of Life?

Um, let's see ...

image

 


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

There is only one work, common to all aspirants: To balance the mind (so that it comes into a zero balance) in order to go beyond it. QBL, including all these models we apply to it, is nothing more than a tool for ordering the mind. Once we get it ordered along one line or another, we "ascend" to the next level ... where we take on many systems, and we must synthesize them into a single alignment (net balance = zero) before taking the next step.

You said it yourself ... if some system doesn't work for you, it's time to get a new system (of chakras or circuits, or whatever). "Every initiate must build his own Qabalah." (- A.C.).

Honestly, I have yet to find a community that holds this ideal as I do. Much good work to come from this, no doubt! Thanks for being here.

Posted by: @shiva

I subscribe to the hypothesis that time is not the 4th dimension. This definition is suitable for general application, but Time is found at Binah. You know, Father Time. Actually Time is transcended at Binah.

My 4th dimension is the Astral Plane, which includes emotional charges linked to thoughtforms (Yesod-Hod-Netzach). There are even higher (more expanded) dimensions or planes, but all of them still have a Time factor perception.

Understood, and I am simply applying the conventional view, time and space are the same e = mc2 kinda thing, and time as in the linear time we call history, is an important aspect of the work, the historical story, or what crowley would call "aeons".

Time has taken on profound new meaning to me however now that I am knee deep in binah and beyond via Dharma tantric practices, which is relatively new for me considering everything else in my own history.

"Time Lord" or Kalachakra, and the palace of kalachakra, is in its own way another kind of metasystem like the tree of life...but I am still unwinding and unbounding it all.

and you're helping amigo, nice one 🙂

Posted by: @shiva

Um, let's see ...

I should have phrased my question better, I meant Leary's system as a "whole system" work. For example, lets say you are using the tree to guide an initiate through various grades of a Golden Dawn type order. At which sephirot in the grade system would you assign Leary's Neurologic, both in theory (a-ha!) and practice (a-ho!)?

Posted by: @dom

 The activity involved in switching on Circuit 5 and controlling the first 4 Circuits thereby comes first, the activity in the Chakras and Planes comes next as a natural consequence of that.

"Switching on" is a metaphor, dualistic. On or Off.  Metaphors by definition are NOT what is actual. Leary's neurologic is in ternary, receptive, integrative, adaptive. The whole body and mind is a very holistic process, non linear. Nothing is ever "off" it simply lay in a receptive state until certain neurochemicals, ideas, spirits, energies are integrated.

Only circuit 8 brings lower circuits into "control". What controls each circuit is the imprinting, what "paradigm" did your brain download at the exact moment it takes a picture?

Posted by: @dom

Each Chakra dominates a muscular region and each Chakra is either inert or active/working. 

Sure, that can work, it can go much deeper into the bones, joints and especially the nervous system, all from feeling the presence of energy in the spine.

And the logic is either receptive, integrative, or transmissive. I am not saying this to nit pik, I am noting that you are using third circuit language, mechanical 0n or off, to describe a process that is non dualistic and holistic and still very logical and predictive.

Neurologic is a language, the natural language that is discovered in the body through all the practices neurologic details. Circuit 5 helps you sense this language. Circuit 6 helps you read this language. circuit 7 helps you speak this language. circuit 8 helps you write the language, but in the future which is also paradoxically along time ago. You created your own nervous system. You wrote this game. You have been controlling the lower four circuits, chakras this whole time, you sly dog 🙂

 

Posted by: @dom

Most people jam the energy.

Dualistic on or off logic will do that 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 

@shiva I am still integrating your "1 in 8" as in 1 chakra or circuit at binah-chokmah-keter. That was a good find amigo. Both east and west do appear to have this 8 no 10 not 10 but 8 kinda pattern happening. Lots of uniting east and west there, I really appreciate that right at the exact time I am creating my own work and holistic integration of east and west (via mandalas, etc)

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

Dr Reich called this "armouring". 

The muscles not only get tight and pushy, but if kept up over time, they stick together (the facia or covering of muscle bundles sticks).Then the condition is permanent (unless released). The deep tissue / Reichian bodywork iinvolves separating the facia ... and that not only hurts physically, but the therapist must be prepared for all kinds of emotional outbursts. Manually applied phsychtherapy.

You have pretty much summarized the holistic approach as it applies to Body-Mind work.

 

 Regardie was that sort of licenced energy-masseuse and I believe that his Middle Pillar Exercise (done with pranayama) was a tool for others to do self-therapy.    

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56
Posted by: @dom

 The activity involved in switching on Circuit 5 and controlling the first 4 Circuits thereby comes first, the activity in the Chakras and Planes comes next as a natural consequence of that.

"Switching on" is a metaphor, dualistic. On or Off.  Metaphors by definition are NOT what is actual. Leary's neurologic is in ternary, receptive, integrative, adaptive. The whole body and mind is a very holistic process, non linear. Nothing is ever "off" it simply lay in a receptive state until certain neurochemicals, ideas, spirits, energies are integrated.

Only circuit 8 brings lower circuits into "control". What controls each circuit is the imprinting, what "paradigm" did your brain download at the exact moment it takes a picture?

 

Leary and RAW described Circuit 5 activation as "turning on".    We are articulating now using Circuit 3 otherwise the Lashtal forum is using telepathy.

 

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56
 

Each Chakra dominates a muscular region and each Chakra is either inert or active/working. 

Sure, that can work, it can go much deeper into the bones, joints and especially the nervous system, all from feeling the presence of energy in the spine.

And the logic is either receptive, integrative, or transmissive. I am not saying this to nit pik, I am noting that you are using third circuit language, mechanical 0n or off, to describe a process that is non dualistic and holistic and still very logical and predictive.

Neurologic is a language, the natural language that is discovered in the body through all the practices neurologic details. Circuit 5 helps you sense this language. Circuit 6 helps you read this language. circuit 7 helps you speak this language. circuit 8 helps you write the language, but in the future which is also paradoxically along time ago. You created your own nervous system. You wrote this game. You have been controlling the lower four circuits, chakras this whole time, you sly dog 🙂

 

Posted by: @dom

Most people jam the energy.

Dualistic on or off logic will do that 

 

I mean it's fine you warning others about the dangers of dualism but I'm sorry in the real world in which we make practical points like I'm doing now I either take a dog for a walk or I don't.  A tennis player can win a point by hitting the ball but he must first hit the ball, it's linear.  

Likewise the Chakra and muscular activity is a consequence of what we do mentally.  What we do mentally  (if Circuit 5 is not getting turned on)  is usually 'following an imprint automatically' sure but that is still mental activity.  Those who follow imprints have to work (unconsciously/automatically) on using muscles to abort  emotions, desires and impulses. 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

the historical story, or what crowley would call "aeons".

We have a few threads in our meager historical records that deal with Aeons, the strange manner in which AC presented it (the Aeons and the timeline), and their qualities. In short, the concept has been repackaged over time (over AC's lifetime), and the funny thing is, the description got worse not better; "dogmatic," one might say.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

At which sephirot in the grade system would you assign Leary's Neurologic, both in theory (a-ha!) and practice (a-ho!)?

Sorry, I cannot understand this question. Are you asking at which point I would attribute or assign the whole system? (neurologic)

Posted by: @dom

now using Circuit 3 otherwise the Lashtal forum is using telepathy.

I've tried to make a great fun paradigm of this concept. I once asked Tiger, "Which sphere is LAShTAL operating on most of the time?"  He vibrated out a long mystical poem that ended with: "Hod!"

Bingo. But the greatest part of this hologramistic religion is that every sphere is in every sphere, so sometimes we shift to other spheres. We usually do not meet on hard Malkuth (1st circuit where we would start to kill each other), but we communicate via physical-etheric (electromagnetic) wavelengths ... as long as we have terminals sold to us by the Borg.

Our cozy little Hod can therefore take on the quality of any sphere. Two examples: (1) Fighting at Geburah, (2) Proclaiming one's self as a Magus, with trumpets, at Chokmah. Of course, Binah, chokmah and the rest of the upper band have no form, so that when we get the Chokmah message, it will come through one our lower orifices (spheres-circuits-senses) and be colored red, or blue, or green. 

 

 


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @dom

Leary and RAW described Circuit 5 activation as "turning on".

They very well may have, however I was focusing on how you were using language to describe the actual circuit, not a metaphor for getting high.

Posted by: @dom

We are articulating now using Circuit 3 otherwise the Lashtal forum is using telepathy.

If you consult the 8 circuit model, you will see that circuit three is what leary called "muscular intelligence" which is PUSH or PULL. That is a logic. On or Off and Push or Pull is the same binary or dualistic logic. Just like the stomach breaks down food and what it can use or not use, and the immune system can use to detect a foreign body, is a "self or not self" logic. That is what i mean by dualistic logic. it is mechanistic.

Posted by: @dom

I mean it's fine you warning others about the dangers of dualism but I'm sorry in the real world in which we make practical points like I'm doing now I either take a dog for a walk or I don't.  A tennis player can win a point by hitting the ball but he must first hit the ball, it's linear.  

Hey man, I cant promise you that the higher circuits make sense to circuit three logic, it wont. Circuit three is operating in base 2, and higher circuits are operating in base three.

Third circuit dualistic logic, push or pull, translates into daily communication and politics as "black or white" thinking. dualistic thinking is not esoteric or require any esoteric "we are all oneness", this is a logic based system, its just not a dualistic logic.

ternary logic is also non-dual logic.

para consistent unbalanced ternary logic is a form of logic that operates in quantum mechanics. that is also a non dual logic.

Dual based logics, duality, black or white thinking, mechanistic "push or pull", strong or weak muscular force, all evolved from circuit two intelligence, territory which is either MINE or YOURS.

Non dual logic is "whole system" based logic, the logic of the whole system. The body is the whole system. The third circuit is just one circuit. The logic of circuit three cannot possible model the whole system.

In Quantum Mechanics, there is a principle where a particle can influence the past.

""In a superficial truth, the opposite is false. In a deep truth, the opposite is also true" Niels Bohr

If you want to consult the mage on this, Robert Anton Wilson has extensive commentary on non binary logics in 'Quantum Psychology' and that is the basis for his "maybe logic" academy.

Yes/No/Maybe is a non dual logic.

Posted by: @dom

Likewise the Chakra and muscular activity is a consequence of what we do mentally.  What we do mentally  (if Circuit 5 is not getting turned on)  is usually 'following an imprint automatically' sure but that is still mental activity.  Those who follow imprints have to work (unconsciously/automatically) on using muscles to abort  emotions, desires and impulses. 

 

The fifth circuit can become aroused by smoking a doob and getting a massage. The mental logic is the dualistic logic, the body logic, getting high, turned on in the arousal sense, feeling the massage, that is the arousal on the body logic which is in ternary. The third circuit mind still wont understand it until the third circuit mind integrates ternary by changing its verbals and grammars in language to more non dual scenarios (yes no maybe instead of yes or no, or basically the 8 winner or loser scripts that is the title of this thread. win or lose is dualistic strategy, win win is non dual strategy)

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

Sorry, I cannot understand this question. Are you asking at which point I would attribute or assign the whole system? (neurologic)

yes exactly, but also the realization of the whole system, by Leary or any other adept down the line.

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1857
 

@dom
I'm sorry in the real world in which we make practical points like I'm doing now I either take a dog for a walk or I don't.

Well like your doing the making.
Letting the fox guard the hen house.
Decoding information from the infinite.
Looping context with content.
Adding a framing a reference to hold experience.
Perceiving experience indirectly; off adducing.
The mind is directing the process
of the narrative you seek to transcend.
And the dog is taking you for a walk.
Communicating via physical-etheric (electromagnetic) wavelengths,
triggering the love chakra.


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @SW56
Posted by: @shiva

Sorry, I cannot understand this question. Are you asking at which point I would attribute or assign the whole system? (neurologic)

yes exactly, but also the realization of the whole system, by Leary or any other adept down the line.

Your question was originally in reference to the G.D. system, which I interprete as being the Outer Order of the A.'.A.'., with arrows pointing toward Tiphareth.

The curriculum of the A.'.A.'. has no references to the 7 or 8 circuit model. But a Student (pre 0=0) has the duty of reading about ALL systems of "attainment." We are asked or advised to read through ALL systems in order to discover what they have in common, disregarding idiosyncratic pop-ups and pop-offs.  So it would, in its theory phase, be a booklet, or a Chapter, or the Wikipedia article.

It would also be a column in the new, improved, and revised 777.

The practical application of the circuits, including the "realization of the whole system," is not something I would assign, but the realization would occur as the grades are tackled and "mastered." It is possible for some (many? most?) people to climb the ladder of the grades without ever knowing who Leary was, what the neurocircuits are, or how the brain functions.

Since I have been trained (by the Establishment) in basic psychology, advanced anatomy and physiology, and mid-level medical biochemistry, I have an interest in neuro-circuitry. But I have never inserted this subject into my vaersion of the "official" curriculum. Instead, I have merely discussed it with students or associates. I have also included it in my books, but only the last 3-4 years or so. It is also a component running throughout a whole webpage (one of several), the 3rd ray, in the 7x7 Megatron ...

https://crystal-chip.angelfire.com/zip03.htm

So, if I was going to slip in it somewhere, that's how I'd do it ... but I never did it and i have no formal student now, except for some way down the line, so it'll never get done ... by me.

However, the last page of my most recent book sums up how to introduce the circuits ...

"Nothing stated above must be allowed to discredit the periodic Vision Quest. Whether it's just overnight, or forty nights in the wilderness, it's been part of my curriculum to engage in absolute self-reliance in remote places that offer little or nothing to rely upon.

Small groups of two to seven are good. Larger groups can be fine, depending on the circumstances. But solo is best. Meditation is, of course, a key component, and magic sets the scene and it can even help you survive.

Let me prescribe the first and final method for separating the sheep from the goats. Surely you know that the vast majority of Students or Probationers drop out before the first degree. Sometimes there is a period of disturbance and disruption. What are you going to do, work with them?

What a waste of time. It has been my policy that after a period of time and some entry-level reading, with a bit of Raja Yoga and a ceremony or two - not initiations - that all of my potential students, and even students of my graduates, got invited to attend a desert ceremony. The period of time varied from a month or so up to a couple years.

In the desert , you can't remember your name
'cause 
someone gave you the key to the libationary game.

And that's either the First Pylon or it's The Last Pylon."

image
Posted by: @tiger

And the dog is taking you for a walk.

Well, yes, of course. We have already determined that the dogs are at the top of the food chain; they are obviously the alien invaders we're looking for ... and they've been here all the time.

 


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2918
 
Posted by: @shiva

through ALL systems in order to discover what they have in common, disregarding idiosyncratic pop-ups and pop-offs.  So it would, in its theory phase, be a booklet, or a Chapter, or the Wikipedia article.

I am still in firm agreement with the Syncretic model. 

 

I got to Thelema through

1. Catholicism

2. Paganism, Celtic pure stuff whatever that means

3. Hinduism / Bhakta of Kali

4. Korean Daoist Tai Chi

5. Thelema 


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @christibrany

Syncretic

I had to look this one up (or down) ...

"uniting, or attempting to unite, different systems, as of philosophy or religion."

There is a common stream running through all the systems, and the Base is the same for all of them, but the Path that each one describes to get to the "goal" can var quite a bit. So we look for common way-points. But out on the surface, some systems appear to be so different that wars are started: The Heathen versus the Infidels.


ReplyQuote
christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2918
 

@shiva

 

Exactly,

That is why (I believe - oh that word) we are in agreement , sir . 


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

So, if I was going to slip in it somewhere, that's how I'd do it ... but I never did it and i have no formal student now, except for some way down the line, so it'll never get done ... by me.

I sense an opportunity in the force, hehe

Posted by: @shiva

Since I have been trained (by the Establishment) in basic psychology, advanced anatomy and physiology, and mid-level medical biochemistry, I have an interest in neuro-circuitry. But I have never inserted this subject into my vaersion of the "official" curriculum. Instead, I have merely discussed it with students or associates. I have also included it in my books, but only the last 3-4 years or so. It is also a component running throughout a whole webpage (one of several), the 3rd ray, in the 7x7 Megatron ...

Would you mind if I asked you to take a look, entirely at your leisure, at the "24"paths Leary himself placed on his 8 circuit model and the "exercises" he assigns to each?

The link to the entirety of the work, which in my opinion is AA material, is here https://3white5star2.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/13077663-timothy-leary-with-robert-anton-wilson-the-game-of-life.pdf

Now, the work is horribly messy, so to make this easier, here are the pages where the specifics can be found, perhaps linking your work with his.

 

Circuits 1 - 4, which equals 12 "paths" with accompanying Tarot, each have "exercise" pages and they are found on the following pages respectively:

 102

 106

 111

116

122

127

134

140

144

152

158

164

 

Higher circuits and their respective brains and exercises are found on the following pages, but his modeling gets sloppier and more challenging to follow and decode (which, according to the manual, is part of the point, to make the adept rely on themselves more while decoding the "game of life" as outlined in the manual)

 

Pages

180

186

196

205

213

225

255

 

 

 

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

which in my opinion is AA material

In which direction are you attributing this text to AA (A.'.A.'.) classification?

I mean, I could rattle off a few A.'.A.'. definitions, so I just wonder which paradigm you're using.

Okay, so I took a look. The text is rather long and I could not locate the "exercises" section.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

Now, the work is horribly messy, so to make this easier, here are the pages where the specifics can be found, perhaps linking your work with his.

Yes, I have noticed that his work in general can be messy. Did you know that his aura is really quite messy? I, my wife, and a few other people were with him for about an hour. Not a pleasant encounter.

Okay, your page numbers helped me to find his "curriculum, of which I reviewed several entries.

I do not understand the concept "linking your work with his." I have already confessed to writing chapters about the circuits in several books, and I have admitted that I talk to people about the circuits, so I am uncertain about where the "linking" (further) would come in.

 


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @shiva

In which direction are you attributing this text to AA (A.'.A.'.) classification?

I mean, I could rattle off a few A.'.A.'. definitions, so I just wonder which paradigm you're using.

Ahh, that's just my own personal view, not as an actual lineage claim but Leary likely was initiated into the AA by someone at some point.

I have this view because what is to be appreciated about Leary's work was leading up to Neurologic were his Millbrook mansion days, where everyone from every tradition showed up to check out the new "LSD" experiments with the leading influencers of the day. Leary during this time was initiated into many "secret societies" or initiate orders, and Leary was already on the radar of the Tibetans with his take on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, making very large claims about LSD.

So in my opinion, that made Leary, to date, the most advanced "initiate" on the planet still alive, and an initiate truly neither from the east nor the west. By the time Leary was in Europe escaping the FBI, he was deeply into Crowley and viewed his life as a continuation of the same work. Add RAW into the mix, who also was courted by the biggest sorcerers of his day, and you have the fusion of all of that into his system making it equal to AA material, a way to understand AA material, is what my own personal belief is.

Non expert opinion 🙂

 

Posted by: @shiva

Did you know that his aura is really quite messy? I, my wife, and a few other people were with him for about an hour. Not a pleasant encounter.

Oh he could have his bad days like anyone 🙂 Funny story about this tho, his chakra color. They had one of those machines in LA back in the day that claimed it could take a picture of anyone's "aura", I forgot how they explained it. Mine was all orange at the time, as it should have been, i was very 3rd chakra centered then too so the color intuitively made sense to me at the time. They had a bunch of photos on the wall of many in LA who took their chakra pictures with this technology. Most were orange like mine, hehe. But then I saw a picture of Tim, and he had a slight smile on his face in the picture, and soft little "blue" colored chakra floating around his head.

Tim did say "everyone gets the Tim Leary they deserve"  hehe

 

Posted by: @shiva

I do not understand the concept "linking your work with his." I have already confessed to writing chapters about the circuits in several books, and I have admitted that I talk to people about the circuits, so I am uncertain about where the "linking" (further) would come in.

 

I was just curious to see if you thought it *could* be potentially linked further after reading his curriculum, which are more like the "22" paths of the tarot, except there are 24 cards in his deck.

Thats all. I could be beating a dead horse 🙂

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6190
 
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

one of those machines in LA back in the day that claimed it could take a picture of anyone's "aura", I forgot how they explained it.

I remember the explanation. I showed interest in purchasing such a marvelous gadget. It photographs nothing in the energy field by itself. The photographer looks at the person's aura, then adjusts colored filters in front of the lens. It is subjective. The way it is presented to the public is a scam, an article in the collection of the spiritual con.

Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

the "22" paths of the tarot, except there are 24 cards in his deck.

My first thought is that two of the cards may be allocated to Paroketh and Da'ath, respectively.


ReplyQuote
David Dom Lemieux
(@david-dom-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3205
Topic starter  
Posted by: @sangewanchuck56

If you consult the 8 circuit model, you will see that circuit three is what leary called "muscular intelligence" which is PUSH or PULL. That is a logic. On or Off and Push or Pull is the same binary or dualistic logic. Just like the stomach breaks down food and what it can use or not use, and the immune system can use to detect a foreign body, is a "self or not self" logic. That is what i mean by dualistic logic. it is mechanistic.

Hey man, I cant promise you that the higher circuits make sense to circuit three logic, it wont. Circuit three is operating in base 2, and higher circuits are operating in base three.

..................................................

 

The muscles and the immune system think?  Very basic thinking ( 1 OR  0) Newtonian in nature but thinking nevertheless.   Yeah ok.  I see that in the synaptic gaps also, bio-chemical transmission OR NOT.   I'm capitalizing because they do that in Computer Science for those functions.      

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ReplyQuote
Sanguine Chuck
(@sangewanchuck56)
Member
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 467
 
Posted by: @dom

The muscles and the immune system think?  Very basic thinking ( 1 OR  0) Newtonian in nature but thinking nevertheless.   Yeah ok.

Thinking implies thoughts and that is not the implication which this is elucidating, rather the neurologic of the circuit of the brain/body is operating in a natural form of dualistic logic or rather I should say it communicates in a language that can be modeled perfectly with dualistic logic. Just like genes can be turned either "on" or "off", it does not mean they think "on" or "off", or if they do, this is not apart of that claim.

Dualistic logic is the supreme language of computer science and circuits 1-4

Paraconsistant ternary logic is the supreme language of Quantum mechanics and circuits 5-8 or rather circuits 1-8 once all are activated.

The dualistic logic remains in a paraconsistent logic system, it is just overridden by the ternary logic of the higher order

"If you have come to help me, then you are wasting your time, but if you are here because your liberation is bound together with mine, then let us work together." Lilla Watson


ReplyQuote
Page 6 / 6
Share: