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The Illuminati and the cycle of five inevitable stages of society

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David Dom Lemieux
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This concept is explored in Dr Wilson's and Robert Shea's The Illuminatus Trilogy novel in the Appendices under the chapter The Illuminati theory of History

My edition is published by Raven Books London  1998.

A very brief background, Wilson is fascinated with the idea that an evil 18th century German Law Professor, Adam Weishaupt, bent on world domination, formed his own secret society which went on to infiltrate the Masons and basically attempted to enslave humanity via secret societies from then on.  This thread isn't specifically about that but is about what you make of Wilson's  cycle of five inevitable stages of society.

Wilson claims (with tongue in cheek or maybe not exactly)  that The Illuminati knew the secret of an occult-sociological law which manifests in a cycle of Five inevitable stages.  They used this occult knowledge and used it to their advantage in their objective for the aforementioned world domination and the enslavement of humanity.  Every society must pass through the following stages;  Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy and then finally Aftermath and then the entire five-stage cycle repeats.  In other words Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis, Parenthesis and finally Paralysis. Wilson hints that Marx and Hegel could only detect the first three stages only.  Here are the stages;

CHAOS 

 The first stage is Chaos (a natural state of humanity of one observes their neighbours and/or themselves) from which humanity emerges but always returns to (I  guess this is SNAFU principle apparently known to the American army i.e.. Situation as Normal All Fucked Up).  The deity associated with this stage is  ERIS, the Tarot ATU is the High Priestess representing (according to Wilson) maternity and fertility but also gnosis.  The number associated with this stage is 2.

 

This is a self-organizing system as seen in  ...The General Systems Theory of Cybernetics...Illuminati try to edit these phases of history out of existence..e.g. Pre-Chou China  Taoist lore only...The I Ching was reorganized when Chou dynasty introduced patriarchal authoritarianism into China.  Male principle of isolation, authoritarian games, monopoly, monotheism, monogamy and general monotony.  Eris then is scorned and according to Wilson the  High Priestess represents  mischief and uses the balanced "solar cross" as opposed to christian cross  This autonomous society was seen in the Danubian culture which had no state,  worshipped a female deity, was pre- urban and agricultural.  Wilson cites the  pre Inca society and many indigenous American tribes as maintaining this phase.. Explorers from monotheistic cultures described the  "grace" and "spontaneity" in indigenous cultures i..e they were encountering an alien culture which were free of authoritarian conflict.  This stage though is dynamic and therefore shifting and it shifts into the next inevitable stage.

 DISCORD

Here we see the appearance of  a ruling class. (the antithesis) and this naturally leads to Discord when the servile class discovers that its interests are not the same as the ruling class.  Associated deities are  Osiris and  Jehova and all masculine deities.  This is represented by the  'all seeing eye' (of the Masons).  The associated Tarot ATU is The Hanged Man i.e.  sacrifice,  schizophrenia and schism.  These "internal contradictions"  generally go unnoticed until someone astute enough like Karl Marx appears to point them out.  The number attributed is 3 seen in the invented all-male Christian trinity and the Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva trinity because the discord always has 3 vectors not 2.

The ruling class emerges to control everyone else.  Boundaries are drawn on maps, there is one state, the earth is perceived as flat and finite perception is the rule where land (territory) is divided up into portions.  This is notable as American Indians experienced "superstitious" terrors when white men showed them maps.  It was a conflict of two stages ; the CHAOS mentality met the DISCORD mentality.  The indigenous people couldn't conceive of their sacred earth as being divided up,  exploited and not worshipped.  A propertied class emerges as does a governed un-landed class. .Marx got it wrong...the main conflict is not masses versus ruling but between the propertied classes and which of them get the biggest share of the empire The Hanged Man ATU represents the burden of omniscience in the governing owning class and the burden of nescience in the governed class.

 

Of course The Illumininati glorify these ages as ones of 'light' and 'progress', expansion  and exploration where new people are discovered ,subjugated "civilized". It makes for  entertaining  reading as teh conquered are converted to tax-payers and rent-payers and the butchers/invaders are seen as outstanding heroes of humanity  The empires of DISCORD are built by destructive people due to the oppressive childhoods

.................continues below; 

This topic was modified 2 months ago 2 times by David Dom Lemieux

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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CONFUSION 

The next inevitable stage in which we see an attempt to restore balance and arrive at Hegelian Synthesis.  Deities here are Loki, The Devil , The Trickster Coyote., .Thoth, Mercury God of thieves.  We have here illusion, deception and an attempt to restore natural order by unnatural means.  The mystical number here is 11 which means "a new start" in Cabbalism and "error or repentance" in other systems of numerology.  Leaders of all rebellions at this stage demand unquestioned obedience from their young followers *think Der Hitlerjugend and other disciples of various other fuhrers and messiahs. It is a stage of turmoil and, troubles in which tyrannies  both rise and fall rapidly.

BUREAUCRACY

The Parentheses that will occur when Hegelian Synthesis fails to reconcile opposites....this is basically exhaustion and is void of Deities.  The Tarot ATU is The Tower representing deterioration..

Proudhon exemplifies this stage when he wrote it i  a time where "every operation, every transaction, every movement (is) noted, registered, counted, licenced, .endorsed, prevented, reformed, hoaxed and robbed."  This is a time of oppression and exhaustion characterised by great heresy hunts and witch trials. Every citizen is a state functionary and each is on trial before the jury of all

There is ceaseless activity and planning but inevitably finished late and poorly done. The burden of omniscience on ruling class becomes unbearable and most flee into schizophrenia or fantasy.  Towers, pyramids, moon shots and similar marvels abound but at enormous cost as social solidarity crumbles.  Blunders multiply but no responsible individual can be found because all decisions are made by committees bound by endless paperwork.  Anyone seeking redress of grievance has to wander through endless of corridors with results no more tangible than The Hunting of the Snark.

The Illuminati describe these ages as glowing epochs because regularity,  order and anti-messiness thrives whereas  the early anarchic stage (CHAOS) is written off as being barbaric and the stage of  CONFUSION as being "revolutionary", Inevitably the burden of omniscience  of the ruling class escalates  as does the burden of nescience on the governed who are increasingly shipped off to "mental hospitals", gladiatorial combat or placed on 'the dole'.  Inevitably thought The Tower falls.

AFTERMATH

The inevitable transition back to chaos..as BUREAUCRACY chokes in its own paperwork as desperation takes hold.  This is dispersion and dissolution  The number is 5, union of the male and the female and the final resolution between CHAOS and DISCORD.

 

the Tarot ATU is The Lovers.  In this stage we see the emergence of 'yippies', hoaxers, shamans, clowns, magicians i.e. ERISIAN forces.  It is a time of dispersion and dissolution where 'the outsider' emerges.  This is coined as 'paralysis' by The Illuminati because objectively nothing much happens but subjectively there is unconscious preparation for next cycle i.e. CHAOS.  These periods see upsurges of phenomena such as feminism, tribal movements, communes.  This stage is characterised by 'drop outs', there is societal collapse, collapse of authority.  A this is a stage of dynamic balance the 'cycle of 5s'  repeats itself.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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Apologies for double post but I now notice that some of the sentences needed a little editing in terms of presentation and grammar in the CHAOS section (which is fitting).  It should be as follows 'The  male principle of isolation, authoritarian games, monopoly, monotheism, monogamy and general monotony dominates this stage'. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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1) That would be a triple-post, and not a double-post.

2) You do realize they thought of this stuff as a joke, right?


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ignant666

1) That would be a triple-post, and not a double-post.

2) You do realize they thought of this stuff as a joke, right?

Wilson always left it open.  Maybe because you identify as 'a Commie' it pains your ego to know that you're basically a tool of one of the inevitable shifting stages of the cycles of 5s (like any of us)?  You're stuck in DISCORD.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Maybe because you identify as 'a Commie' it pains your ego to know that you're basically a tool of one of the inevitable shifting stages of the cycles of 5s (like any of us)?  You're stuck in DISCORD.

Yes, it does hurt my ego to be "stuck in DISCORD"*.

That's exactly right. Carry on.

_______________________

*Even though i would have to wonder what on earth the connection might be between left ideas, and one particular stage of a pataphysical/parodic pseudo-Toynbee/pseudo-Hegelian/pseudo-Marxist joke analysis of history invented by two pothead editors of Playboy trying to combine every nut-bar conspiracy theory they got nut-bar letters about into one great big ultra-super-duper-nut-bar conspiracy theory.

But please don't bother explaining.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

You're stuck in DISCORD.

Yes. Ignant is a self-confessed Discordian. [quote] "I like to argue." [unquote].

I am a closet Discordian. We are not stuck in Discord. We find the formless state to be peaceful. From time to time, we venture forth into denser gov territory, sometimes reaching as deep as Bureaucracy (render unto Caesar and complying with whatever). But now we (all) have entered the beginning of the Aftermath. After Math comes Chaos (again).

I keep reminding folks ... QBL is cool, but it breaks down on the outskirts over on the other side of Chesed.

 


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katrice
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We wish to impose order on to chaos, but imposition of order brings with it escalation of chaos,as each taken to an extreme invokes its opposite, much like yin and yang in the taiji. 


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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

This concept is explored in Dr Wilson's and Robert Shea's The Illuminatus Trilogy novel in the Appendices under the chapter The Illuminati theory of History

My edition is published by Raven Books London  1998.

A very brief background, Wilson is fascinated with the idea that an evil 18th century German Law Professor, Adam Weishaupt, bent on world domination, formed his own secret society which went on to infiltrate the Masons and basically attempted to enslave humanity via secret societies from then on.  This thread isn't specifically about that but is about what you make of Wilson's  cycle of five inevitable stages of society.

Wilson claims (with tongue in cheek or maybe not exactly)  that The Illuminati knew the secret of an occult-sociological law which manifests in a cycle of Five inevitable stages.  They used this occult knowledge and used it to their advantage in their objective for the aforementioned world domination and the enslavement of humanity.  Every society must pass through the following stages;  Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy and then finally Aftermath and then the entire five-stage cycle repeats.  In other words Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis, Parenthesis and finally Paralysis. Wilson hints that Marx and Hegel could only detect the first three stages only.  Here are the stages;

CHAOS 

 The first stage is Chaos (a natural state of humanity of one observes their neighbours and/or themselves) from which humanity emerges but always returns to (I  guess this is SNAFU principle apparently known to the American army i.e.. Situation as Normal All Fucked Up).  The deity associated with this stage is  ERIS, the Tarot ATU is the High Priestess representing (according to Wilson) maternity and fertility but also gnosis.  The number associated with this stage is 2.

 

This is a self-organizing system as seen in  ...The General Systems Theory of Cybernetics...Illuminati try to edit these phases of history out of existence..e.g. Pre-Chou China  Taoist lore only...The I Ching was reorganized when Chou dynasty introduced patriarchal authoritarianism into China.  Male principle of isolation, authoritarian games, monopoly, monotheism, monogamy and general monotony.  Eris then is scorned and according to Wilson the  High Priestess represents  mischief and uses the balanced "solar cross" as opposed to christian cross  This autonomous society was seen in the Danubian culture which had no state,  worshipped a female deity, was pre- urban and agricultural.  Wilson cites the  pre Inca society and many indigenous American tribes as maintaining this phase.. Explorers from monotheistic cultures described the  "grace" and "spontaneity" in indigenous cultures i..e they were encountering an alien culture which were free of authoritarian conflict.  This stage though is dynamic and therefore shifting and it shifts into the next inevitable stage.

 DISCORD

Here we see the appearance of  a ruling class. (the antithesis) and this naturally leads to Discord when the servile class discovers that its interests are not the same as the ruling class.  Associated deities are  Osiris and  Jehova and all masculine deities.  This is represented by the  'all seeing eye' (of the Masons).  The associated Tarot ATU is The Hanged Man i.e.  sacrifice,  schizophrenia and schism.  These "internal contradictions"  generally go unnoticed until someone astute enough like Karl Marx appears to point them out.  The number attributed is 3 seen in the invented all-male Christian trinity and the Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva trinity because the discord always has 3 vectors not 2.

The ruling class emerges to control everyone else.  Boundaries are drawn on maps, there is one state, the earth is perceived as flat and finite perception is the rule where land (territory) is divided up into portions.  This is notable as American Indians experienced "superstitious" terrors when white men showed them maps.  It was a conflict of two stages ; the CHAOS mentality met the DISCORD mentality.  The indigenous people couldn't conceive of their sacred earth as being divided up,  exploited and not worshipped.  A propertied class emerges as does a governed un-landed class. .Marx got it wrong...the main conflict is not masses versus ruling but between the propertied classes and which of them get the biggest share of the empire The Hanged Man ATU represents the burden of omniscience in the governing owning class and the burden of nescience in the governed class.

 

Of course The Illumininati glorify these ages as ones of 'light' and 'progress', expansion  and exploration where new people are discovered ,subjugated "civilized". It makes for  entertaining  reading as teh conquered are converted to tax-payers and rent-payers and the butchers/invaders are seen as outstanding heroes of humanity  The empires of DISCORD are built by destructive people due to the oppressive childhoods

.................continues below; 

Is it coincidence, or synchronicity? I just purchased and I am re-reading a used copy of Robert Anton Wilson's, The Cosmic Trigger : The Final Secret of the Illuminate.   Thank for your synopsis, it really clears some concepts for me.   


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toadstoolwe
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@katrice Or the formation of the universe.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

 

Is it coincidence, or synchronicity? I just purchased and I am re-reading a used copy of Robert Anton Wilson's, The Cosmic Trigger : The Final Secret of the Illuminate.   Thank for your synopsis, it really clears some concepts for me.   

In any talk about RAW you can't really take his Illuminati obsession out of the discussion.  We were discussing him in the other Nazi/Manson thread (now locked and link is provided below) 

 

Anyway what do you make about this theory of the cycle of the 5 stages?  Do you now see how you, Hadgigegenraum and FOX NEWS are useful tools for the oppressive insane ruling class /The Illuminati?  Maybe include Kidneyhawk in that list with him entertaining the idea that Manson was a misunderstood Buddhist saint in this aforementioned locked thread;

 

.US Army soldier indicted for Order Of Nine Angles terror plot – Page 4 – Stuff – LAShTAL.COM Forum

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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toadstoolwe
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@david-dom-lemieux It is interesting, but it is just another theory developed to help explain why we are the way we are.  If I am missing the point then so be it.  One theory is as good as another in matters of metaphysics and philosophy all of it open to debate and rhetoric.  Not unlike Plato's theory of forms, or Pythagoras and the  Music of the Spheres.  (I don't claim any real expertise in any of this, it is my limited conjecture.)  All Occult sciences are an attempt to try to know the unknowable.  Robert Anton Wilson, Timothy Leary, Aleister Crowley are all fountains of knowledge that we can all drink from, if we choose too.


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christibrany
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@shiva We seem to be entering the CHAOS phase as BUREACRACY breaks down under it's own corruption and self-importance. 


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christibrany
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@katrice 

0=2 

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

you can't really take his Illuminati obsession out of the discussion.

One simply has (imperative) to discriminate betwixt the ancient Illuminati of Secret Society Arcane Lore ... and the more modern Illuminati, who stole that name (through infiltration) and who are the living examples of those inherited-wealth bearers mention in The Communist Manifesto as recommended by Ignant, Esq.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

you ... are useful tools for the oppressive insane ruling class /The Illuminati?

Perhaps, in order to prevent another thread-lock, it would be useful to get Crowley involved here. BafometR found himself in charge of several Orders of Antiquity, of varying levels of "importance," with the dues increasing at every step, but with more personal funds being given to The Tong, among which was the semi-exalted 8th degree of The Order of the Illuminati.

All the OTO degrees were simply  ancient writes/rites of some historical attempt to create order, which is why they are called Order(s). The historical 8th degree of The Tong is The Bavarian Illuminati ...

The Illuminati]is a name given to several groups, both real and fictitious. Historically, the name usually refers to the Bavarian Illuminati, founded on 1 May 1776 in Bavaria, today part of Germany. The society's goals were to oppose superstition, obscurantism, religious influence over public life, and abuses of state power. "The order of the day ... is to put an end to the machinations of the purveyors of injustice, to control them without dominating them."
Stolen and parafrazed from Wikipedia Digitalis

Again, I am reminded of the general tone of The Communist Manifesto.

Wasn't it Robert Anton who suggested that Marx was influenced/paid by the (lineage) of The Illuminati?

So then there's this more-Modern Illuminati, which is either the name they stole (through infiltration), or a name bestowed on them by the paparazzi, and "they" are the inherited-wealth power brokers.

Note: AC was an inherited-wealth guy, but he was not materialistic enough to drift into the direction of the deep state.

I don't make a connection between The Material Illuminati and the cycles of civilization. Civilizations rise and fall all the time. The cycle can be seen in the form of a bell cuve ... for an individual, a family, acity, state, country or unity of nations ...

Note that different bells enjoy different levels of prosperity and longevity, but they're all a bell. Said bell(s) can be divided into 3 sections (rise, thrive, fall), 4 (elements), 5 (anythings), or 22 variations, depending on what wants to prove.

In the end, it's just yin-yang: rise and fall. It is epitomized in the immortal, universal principle: What goes up must come down.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

It is interesting, but it is just another theory developed to help explain why we are the way we are.

It is noted that you have cut to the heart of the matter. Your Certificate of Perception is being mentally prepared even as I write these words.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Robert Anton Wilson, Timothy Leary, Aleister Crowley are all fountains of knowledge that we can all drink from

Wines that foam.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva

Perhaps, in order to prevent another thread-lock, it would be useful to get Crowley involved here.

Every single thread in every section has to relate to Crowley?  This is the Robert Anton Wilson section who, as most of us know, was heavily influenced by Crowley so isn't that enough?  The thread is about the 5 stages of the repeating societal cycle.

 

Posted by: @shiva

Again, I am reminded of the general tone of The Communist Manifesto.

Wasn't it Robert Anton who suggested that Marx was influenced/paid by the (lineage) of The Illuminati?

Yes, which is nonsense of course.  Wilson was a trickster also, mainly in his writings but he thought that real world conspiracies were generally worthless and projection.   The game he played about Marx was the curious date of the International Workers Day the 1st May which is another witchcraft Sabbat.   1 May was chosen to be International Workers' Day to commemorate the 1886 Haymarket affair in Chicago  so you would think it was inspired by Marx's writings?   Boris Johnson used  a couple of Sabbats to stop or start lockdowns if I'm not mistaken and of course, Hitler shot himself on Walpurgisnacht.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva I humbly accept your Certificate of Perception.  "Wines that foam" evoke the Dionysian Mysteries. 


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toadstoolwe
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@david-dom-lemieux I recommend you read "Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco.  It's right up your alley. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Every single thread in every section has to relate to Crowley?

Rebel Without A Cause ... a great movie. It caught my high-school brain's attention. It was filmed only a short short way.

Yes. Everything has to relate to Aleister Crowley, his heirs and assigns. I don't know what an "assign" is, but I'll volunteer to be one. Actually, I'm an heir of one of his associates.

Yes, this thread is a RAW-derivative.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

It's right up your alley. 

I read the Pendulum. I found it quaint, with many dots connected between science an QBL. But nothing stuck. Nothing flashed "Home." So I'll have to pass on recommending it ... except for anally mental interrogators.

 


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gurugeorge
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This just seems like a gussied-up version of the classical cyclical theory of politics (Polybius), which is pretty sound - but that's mainly because it was drawn from observation and experience in the history of antiquity.

Of recent cyclical theories, the most interesting was the Strauss-Howe generational theory, or "Fourth Turning" idea (notable for predicting the 2010s as a period of intense division, at a time in the mid-90s, after the fall of the Iron Curtain, when everyone thought it was the "end of history" and that it would all be sunshine and rainbows for ever) - but again it suffers from the same problem a lot of these theories have: that if you're looking at in terms of historical phenomena, trends, ideas, etc., the terms being used are so general and vague that you can make anything fit. 

However, there's been an interesting development of that theory by a Finnish scientist, which ties it to something rather more concrete and specifiable, and potentially related to comprehensible rationales in earlier evolution (IOW it's fairly easy to see why it might have evolved): the interacting generational hormonal cycles, of which there are 4 (Dopamine, Cortisol/Oxytocin, Sex Hormones and Growth Hormones).  (This might be of particular interest to Thelemites who are interested in all that sex magick stuff 🙂 )

He makes a fairly concrete prediction (not in that paper but elsewhere) that the current "Fourth Turning" or period of internal conflict and division should end around 2026 (provided nothing goes kablooey in the interim).

Basically some social species have these generational cycles where the various hormones predominate.  One idea is that this might have evolved as a subtle means of getting one over on predators.  For example since predators adapt to the size and form of their prey, a prey species that changes its size over generations (a growth hormone generational cycle) presents a problem for the predator to adapt to - it will eventually have to adapt to some mid-size, which will enable a fair few members of the species at peak size and smallest size to slip out of the predators' grasp - the "grain" of the cycles is long enough to appear stochastic to the predator's evolutionary process (certainly for non-social predators, solo hunters).  From there, because of the interaction of hormones, I suppose that kicks off a generational cyclical processes in all of them.


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toadstoolwe
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@shiva I found Foucault's Pendulum highly entertaining.  I bought it at an airport bookstore during a trip to Germany.  It held my interest on a long flight. I guess that makes me  an "anally mental interrogator"..... Whatever that is.


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ignant666
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

Finnish scientist

I looked at the attached "paper"; it is under-referenced, and presents almost zero evidence as to its central hypothesis- that humans are among the social animals with these hormone cycles.

I noted that it was on a personal website, not a scientific journal site, and was not much like most papers i have read, so i thought i would look on his website for some of his other scientific papers, and his CV, to see where he did his training, and in what.

My Finnish is limited, but based on the photos displayed, and the text as translated by Google Translate, he appears to be not a scientist, but rather a wedding photographer:

Below are my achievements for the world's largest wedding photography organization WPJA (Wedding Photojournalistic Association), AG | WPJA (Artistic Guild of Wedding Photojournalistic Association) and Finnish wedding photography competitions. As the only Finnish and Nordic wedding photographer, I have won the Gold Medal Award three times and the Blue Medal Award twice with these investments. [achievements omitted]


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David Dom Lemieux
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From wiki; Kyklos - Wikipedia

 

According to Polybius, who has the most fully developed version of the kyklos, it rotates through the three basic forms of government: democracyaristocracy, and monarchy, and the three degenerate forms of each of these governments: ochlocracyoligarchy, and tyranny. Originally society is in ochlocracy but the strongest figure emerges and sets up a monarchy. The monarch's descendants, who lack virtue because of their family's power, become despots and the monarchy degenerates into a tyranny. Because of the excesses of the ruler the tyranny is overthrown by the leading citizens of the state who set up an aristocracy. They too quickly forget about virtue and the state becomes an oligarchy. These oligarchs are overthrown by the people who set up a democracy. Democracy soon becomes corrupt and degenerates into ochlocracy, beginning the cycle anew. Polybius's concept of the cycle of governments is called anacyclosis.   

 

Thankyou @gurugeorge I am surprised that Wilson didn't mention this.  What I find interesting is Wilson's idea that a minority emerges to rule (and this is relevant to Thelemites as they are said to 'rule' the 'many and the known' and are referred to as 'kings' in Liber AL) but it is burdened by omniscience and is therefore doomed.   How does a minority group emerge anyway?  If a plane (of e.g. 50 people) was wrecked on some obscure isolated desert island I'm sure a minority would soon start calling the shots on how to survive and then the dynamics for discord etc are set in motion.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @christibrany

@katrice 

0=2 

It touches on some aspects of Aeonics too.  After emerging from formlessness, the Mother nurtures, the Father instills order, and therefore discipline, so that things may be accomplished from a place of stability, but eventually the control needs to be rebelled against, in order to achieve individuation. 

 

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

oppressive insane ruling class /The Illuminati

Backlash against liberation gets sold as rebellious liberation, rather than just the old Aeon trying to reassert itself.   

Of course the real Illuminated are those who do the Work.  😉 

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

"Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco

Love that book! 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

It is interesting, but it is just another theory developed to help explain why we are the way we are.

All models are. Their use lies in what use we can get from them.

 

Posted by: @gurugeorge

This might be of particular interest to Thelemites who are interested in all that sex magick stuff

Hi

Posted by: @ignant666

look on his website for some of his other scientific papers, and his CV, to see where he did his training, and in what.

Always good to check the source. 😀 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Of course the real Illuminated are those who do the Work.

And they don't print Illuminati on their Curriculum Vitae, nor do they run on about their illumination.

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

I keep reminding folks ... QBL is cool, but it breaks down on the outskirts over on the other side of Chesed.

At the start (and AC kicks Liber Aleph off with the theme), QBL is a helpful tool for the Aspirant. At a higher stage of the game, we realize it has no substance. Even higher, it becomes an art-form whereby Will and Insight are expressed-not unlike a collection of musical instruments coming together to manifest a "Sound Vision" (such as Beethoven's 9th).

Kenneth Grant (who seems to go "gaga" over Gematria in his Trilogies) recognizes this in Outer Gateways where he notes that there is no objective relationship between letters and numbers. The relationship IS steeped in rules and tradition and logic and dogma. All of this is ultimately subjective, as is history and science and our highest and most noble self-conceptions. But this view belongs to a certain stage of Initiation.

The QBL AC recommends in Aleph is as Wittgenstein's ladder. We know that we will one day toss it away-but we must climb it first.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

there is no objective relationship between letters and numbers.

Certain Rabbis and Thelemic QBL-artists are waiting in line to argue this point, for hours, in loud, angry voices ... with gestures.

One's entire QBL is entirely subjective. Even if we all memorize 777, we all also know that in (say) licensing exams, where everybody studied the same material, a wide range of scores are recorded. 

Like normal <haha> people everywhere, folks around here mostly seem to have a firm grasp on its structure as presented in the Tree. Even then, who can prove that a G is worth a 3? 

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice

It touches on some aspects of Aeonics too.  After emerging from formlessness, the Mother nurtures, the Father instills order, and therefore discipline, so that things may be accomplished from a place of stability, but eventually the control needs to be rebelled against, in order to achieve individuation. 

 

Does it though?  The Aeons are about an identifiable developmental process where humanity learns as it sheds it's retarded ways.  To be very brief about it,

 

(Phase 1) primitivism (wild, tribal and kind of naturally democratic) to....

(Phase 2) cities (monopoly of guns and taxes with technology) to....

(Phase 3) Horus (time to get wild again...but keep the technology and cities...and State). 

IAO. 

Wilson's cycle of 5s is a pendulum constantly swinging back to the first stage of CHAOS which he prefers.  In fact what is he on about?  He cites the 1960s as being an anticipation of the return to the stage of CHAOS when 'shamans' and 'Yippies' appear but how was the 1970s CHAOS and when did the DISCORD phase after that start where a (new?) ruling class emerged again?  

There are still ISISIAN tribes on the planet, not all of them have Manchester United t-shirts and Reebok trainers either.   Are they waiting for DISCORD?  It gets complex because obviously in time they will have to merge with 'advanced civilization'.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

 

Does it though?  The Aeons are about an identifiable developmental process where humanity learns as it sheds it's retarded ways.  To be very brief about it,

 

(Phase 1) primitivism (wild, tribal and kind of naturally democratic) to....

(Phase 2) cities (monopoly of guns and taxes with technology) to....

(Phase 3) Horus (time to get wild again...but keep the technology and cities...and State). 

IAO. 

 

Maat= imposition of order again, on a new level.

 

Wilson's cycle of 5s is a pendulum constantly swinging back to the first stage of CHAOS which he prefers.  In fact what is he on about?  He cites the 1960s as being an anticipation of the return to the stage of CHAOS when 'shamans' and 'Yippies' appear but how was the 1970s CHAOS and when did the DISCORD phase after that start where a (new?) ruling class emerged again?  

 

The cycle of Imposition of Order=Escalation of Chaos that defines Wilson's model can be seen as an overarching cycle, and can apply to any system, on any level.  The Discordian symbol of the taiji with the pentagon and apple sums it up perfectly as a pattern that can apply to any, potentially all, systems. Ideally, it forms the principle that leads to systems upgrading, as the old pattern becomes useless, or toxic, leading to its decay and replacement with a new pattern.  One can argue that each Aeon itself goes through this cycle internally too. The Mother eventually ceases to allow growth, requiring imposition of order, but the imposition of order eventually reaches a point where it actively fights change, leading to  a new escalation of chaos.  

There are still ISISIAN tribes on the planet, not all of them have Manchester United t-shirts and Reebok trainers either.   Are they waiting for DISCORD?  It gets complex because obviously in time they will have to merge with 'advanced civilization'.  

In all fairness, Wilson's model hardly applies on a universally global scale any more than the Aeons do.  The entire planet doesn't go through it all at the same time, correct?  

 

 

Posted by: @shiva

Certain Rabbis and Thelemic QBL-artists are waiting in line to argue this point, for hours, in loud, angry voices ... with gestures.

Language, and even number, still adhere to the rational, while the path leads increasingly in to the realm of the Transrational. 

 


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gurugeorge
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Posted by: @ignant666

I looked at the attached "paper"; it is under-referenced, and presents almost zero evidence as to its central hypothesis- that humans are among the social animals with these hormone cycles.

There is no data for that, but he's arguing by analogy from mammals in general, with whom it's fairly common (a point which is referenced), and he's using as proxies statistical data like breastfeeding rates, height change rates, incidence of diabetes, etc. (all referenced).

I was too previous calling him a "scientist," to be fair.  He's doing a masters in law, apparently, and this is just a personal side-project of his.

At any rate, it's an interesting theory that gives some potential biological bottom to the Fourth Turning idea.


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @gurugeorge

This just seems like a gussied-up version of the classical cyclical theory of politics (Polybius), which is pretty sound - but that's mainly because it was drawn from observation and experience in the history of antiquity.

 

Yes, he must have been familiar with Polybius' explanation of anacyclosis which is found in Book VI of The Histories apparently.  This theory was developed in stages by the ancient Greek philosophers Plato and Aristotle.  From wiki; 

The political doctrine of anacyclosis (or anakyklosis from Greek: ἀνακύκλωσις) is a cyclical theory of political evolution. The theory of anacyclosis is based upon the Greek typology of constitutional forms of rule by the one, the few, and the many. Anacyclosis states that three basic forms of "benign" government (monarchyaristocracy, and democracy) are inherently weak and unstable, tending to degenerate rapidly into the three basic forms of "malignant" government (tyrannyoligarchy, and ochlocracy).

According to the doctrine, "benign" governments have the interests of all at heart, whereas "malignant" governments have the interests of a select few at heart. However, all six are considered unworkable because the first three rapidly transform into the latter three due to political corruption.

 

Polybius' sequence of anacyclosis proceeds in the following order:

 

1. monarchy , 2. kingship, 3. tyranny,

According to Polybius' elaboration of the theory,[1] the state begins in a form of primitive monarchy. The state will emerge from monarchy under the leadership of an influential and wise king; this represents the emergence of "kingship". Political power will pass by hereditary succession to the children of the king, who will abuse their authority for their own gain; this represents the degeneration of kingship into "tyranny

 

 4. aristocracy, 5. oligarchy, 6. democracy, and 7. ochlocracy.

Some of the more influential and powerful men of the state will grow weary of the abuses of tyrants, and will overthrow them; this represents the ascendancy of "aristocracy" (as well as the end of the "rule by the one" and the beginning of the "rule by the few").

Just as the descendants of kings, however, political influence will pass to the descendants of the aristocrats, and these descendants will begin to abuse their power and influence, as the tyrants before them; this represents the decline of aristocracy and the beginning of "oligarchy". As Polybius explains, the people will by this stage in the political evolution of the state decide to take political matters into their own hands.

This point of the cycle sees the emergence of "democracy", as well as the beginning of "rule by the many". In the same way that the descendants of kings and aristocrats abused their political status, so too will the descendants of democrats. Accordingly, democracy degenerates into "ochlocracy", literally, "mob-rule". In an ochlocracy, according to Polybius, the people of the state will become corrupted, and will develop a sense of entitlement and will be conditioned to accept the pandering of demagogues. Essentially, government becomes a puppet show because a transition in power does not affect a civilian on a day-to-day basis.

Eventually, the state will be engulfed in chaos, and the competing claims of demagogues will culminate in a single (sometimes virtuous) demagogue claiming absolute power, bringing the state full-circle back to monarchy.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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I would suggest that what Wilson and Shea "must have been familiar with" would almost certainly include Arnold Toynbee's A Study Of History, which would have been taught to them, or at least discussed, at most US colleges in the late '50s when Wilson and probably Shea) went to college (Wilson was one year older than Shea). This is a cyclical "inevitable rise, decline, and fall of civilizations" theory now regarded as laughable among historians, but once huge.

Toynbee is/was big among older US right-wing conspiracy nuts of the John Birch Society vintage, and Illuminatus was based on combining all the nut letters they got as editors at Playboy during the late '60s into one big imaginary conspiracy, by assuming that "all these nuts are right, and every single conspiracy they complain about really exists."


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ignant666

I would suggest that what Wilson and Shea "must have been familiar with" would almost certainly include Arnold Toynbee's A Study Of History, which would have been taught to them, or at least discussed, at most US colleges in the late '50s when Wilson and probably Shea) went to college (Wilson was one year older than Shea). This is a cyclical "inevitable rise, decline, and fall of civilizations" theory now regarded as laughable among historians, but once huge.

Well tog ive them (Greeks) their due, we now have thousands of more years of testing ground to glean data from.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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