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A Hopefully Comprehensive List of Scarlet Women  

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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2199
27/12/2010 6:57 pm  

Since I like helping other researchers by making lists and filling out others and since I Had this idea also recently, I will use

Aum418s wonderful start to list all the Scarlet Women, their years in 'active duty' and also which Workings if any they helped

with. Also many thanks to Kacyznski's wonderful biography Perdurabo! Hopefully someone finds this modest effort some help

in any scholastic endeavour.

*A Sometimes Zoomorphic Scarlet Menagerie*
#a. Animal or nickname
b. Name
c. Years Active
d. Workings

1. a. Ourda the Seer
b. Rose Kelly
c. 1903-1906
d. The Cairo Working

2. a. Laylah / Princess Bathurst
b. Leila Waddell
c. 1910-1916
d. The Rites of Eleusis

3. Soror Virakam
b. Mary Desti/ D'este Sturges
c. 1911-1916
d. Abuldiz Working

4. a. The Cat, The Scarlet Woman Hilarion
b. Jeanne Robert Foster, née Ollivier
c. 1915
d. To beget a Magickal heir

5. a. The Snake
b. Helen Westley
c. 1915
d. General workings (finance etc)

6. a. The Owl
b. Maria Von Kothek
c. 1916-1917
d. general

7. a. The Monkey
b. Ratan Devi /Alice Ethel Coomaraswamy, née Richardson
c. 1916-1917

8. a. The Dog.
b. Anna Catherine Miller
c. 1917
d. Workings for money

9. The Camel / The Scarlet Woman Achitha/ Eve
b. Roddie Minor, or Mrs. Zain
c. 1917-1918
d. Amalantrah Workings

10. a. Bazedon / Toad / Scorpion 4
b. Elsa Lowensohn Lincke
c. 1918
d. finances for Amalantrah working

11. a . Olun / Scorpion 2
b. Marie Roehling
c. 1918
d. help with Amalantrah Workings

12. a. Scorpion 1
b. Eva Tanguay
c. 1918
d. help with Amalantrah Workings

13. a. Wesrun / 333 / 888
b. Dorothy Troxel
c. 1918
d. help with Amalantrah Workings

14. a. The Ape /The Scarlet Woman Alostrael / "the last of the officers in my initiation"
b. Lea Hirsig
c. 1918-1923
d. Workings connected with Amalantrah and LAM/ Abbey of Thelema Workings/ Djeridensis Comment and visions

15. a. Soror Astrid
b. Dorothy Olsen
c. 1925-1926
d. Tunis Working

15. a. High Priestess of Voodoo
b. Marie de Miramar
c. 1928-1930
d. Voodoo / Fire spirit evocation / 'nameless fear'

16. a. Anu / The Monster
b. Hanni Jaeger
c. 1929-1931
d. general

17. a. Billle
b. Bertha Busch
c. 1931-1933
d. insane rows

18. a. Pearl
b. Evelyn Brooksmith
c. 1933-1936
d. to beget an heir (failed)

19. a. Pat
b. Dierdre Patricia Doherty MacAlpine
c. 1933, 1936-1938
d. To beget an heir (only success!) was Aleister Ataturk


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 915
27/12/2010 7:28 pm  

Great List Chris! Im sure this will come in handy to many!

You may want to add to
to number 2 the nickname / title "Mother of Heaven"

Cheers
Scott


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
27/12/2010 7:45 pm  

Greetings!

That's great! It seems to me this info would fit perfectly in Encyclopedia Thelemica's entry for "Scarlet Woman"! 😉

Regards
Hecate


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Patriarch156
(@patriarch156)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 486
28/12/2010 1:41 pm  

As far as I am aware of Crowley never regarded Leilah Waddell, romantically inclined though he felt towards her, as a Scarlet Woman. She figures in none of the lists he gives and he stress the importance of the fact that he thought Rose was IT, when Mary Desti arose to take on the mantle for the first time after Rose.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2199
28/12/2010 4:13 pm  

if a woman rides a Beast in the kali yuga does that make her a scarlet woman? :-p


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Patriarch156
(@patriarch156)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 486
28/12/2010 5:32 pm  
"christibrany" wrote:
if a woman rides a Beast in the kali yuga does that make her a scarlet woman? :-p

In that instance it is literally hundreds of them and your list is nowhere near complete and probably never can be complete :p

That being said, given that this is the Home of the Aleister Crowley's Society I think it is important to differentiate between our own point of views and that of Crowley's. I mean, just because I as an individual may believe that Abraham Lincoln was the first Scarlet Woman does not necesarily merit it an inclusion in such a list, and certainly not on the E.T.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2199
28/12/2010 6:25 pm  

hehe that is very good reasoning. the problem is in some of his texts he states that the consort of the beast becomes the Scarlet Woman and in others it seems she has to be 'consecrated' as such. Since I remember reading about consecrations as such for all the women (I believe) in the list save Leila Waddell I think you're right. I have to get my copy of 'Perdurabo' from home after work then i will do some more research on it tonight at my house sitting. 93!
ps i was obviously just being cheeky last post otherwise i would have included all the prostitutes he mentions that would be quite a novel!


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Patriarch156
(@patriarch156)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 486
29/12/2010 11:16 am  
"christibrany" wrote:
hehe that is very good reasoning. the problem is in some of his texts he states that the consort of the beast becomes the Scarlet Woman and in others it seems she has to be 'consecrated' as such. Since I remember reading about consecrations as such for all the women (I believe) in the list save Leila Waddell I think you're right. I have to get my copy of 'Perdurabo' from home after work then i will do some more research on it tonight at my house sitting. 93!
ps i was obviously just being cheeky last post otherwise i would have included all the prostitutes he mentions that would be quite a novel!

I am not aware of Crowley stating that the consort of the Beast becomes the Scarlet Woman. I am however aware of him declaring in the Comment called D that the Scarlet Woman is "any woman that receives and transmits [Crowley's] Solar Word and Being", which is a different kind of statement alltogether. Perhaps that was what you were thinking of, if not would you please source the above statement of yours, as it is of a personal interest to me.

Having said that, even if he did say the above, the historical record makes it plain that Waddell figured in not one of his official lists or the narratives he created surrounding the Scarlet Woman.

As an example, in Chapter 70 of his autohagiography Crowley makes no bones about the similarities between Rose and Mary (ignorant about Magick, the Secret Chiefs making the first move and so on) and concludes with:

"The suggestion was that the Secret Chiefs, having chosen Ouarda as their messenger, could not use anyone else until she had become irrevocably disqualified by insanity. Not till now could her place be taken by another; and that Virakam should possess a duplicate of her Magical Robe seemed a strong argument that she had been consecrated by them to take the place of her unhappy predecessor."

In other words not until Virakam arose was anyone capable of assuming the mantle of Scarlet Womanhood, because it wasn't until at that moment Ouarda had disqualified herself from that position. In other words according to Crowley as late as the publication of his Confessions, the line went from Rose to Mary Desti, not Rose - Waddell - Desti.

This also agrees with the lists he made himself where Waddell figures in not one of them. I am also aware of no evidence of Crowley changing his mind and including Waddell after the publication of Confessions, so unless Perdurabo brings up new evidence to the contrary rather than a common misconception among Thelemites, it is in factual error if it states that Waddell was a Scarlet Woman of Crowley's (though I do not remember it stating this, you may be right as I haven't read it since the first edition and still haven't finished the revised edition).


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
29/12/2010 8:09 pm  
"Patriarch156" wrote:
In other words not until Virakam arose was anyone capable of assuming the mantle of Scarlet Womanhood, because it wasn't until at that moment Ouarda had disqualified herself from that position. In other words according to Crowley as late as the publication of his Confessions, the line went from Rose to Mary Desti, not Rose - Waddell - Desti.

This has always been my understanding of the formal assignation of the title and office of SW, as recognized by AC, not that the other ladies in question weren't lovely and important to AC in their own ways.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2199
09/01/2011 6:34 pm  

greetings
I have recently read in my rereading of Hidden God by Kenneth Grant what Crowley considered his list of Scarlet women at the time (written roughly 1923) and is on page 23 of that book.
The list does not include Leila Waddell but does include the others I listed. The thing is he doesnt include the bit players. He has Leah Hirsig as number 7. So deferring to the Beast my revised list of Scarlet Women with Roman numerals denoting Helpers:

*A Sometimes Zoomorphic Scarlet Menagerie*
Roman numeral for helpers/# for SW a. Animal or nickname
b. Name
c. Years Active
d. Workings

1. a. Ourda the Seer
b. Rose Kelly
c. 1903-1906
d. The Cairo Working

I. a. Laylah / Princess Bathurst
b. Leila Waddell
c. 1910-1916
d. The Rites of Eleusis

2. Soror Virakam
b. Mary Desti/ D'este Sturges
c. 1911-1916
d. Abuldiz Working

3. a. The Cat, The Scarlet Woman Hilarion
b. Jeanne Robert Foster, née Ollivier
c. 1915
d. To beget a Magickal heir

II. a. The Snake
b. Helen Westley
c. 1915
d. General workings (finance etc)

III. a. The Owl
b. Maria Von Kothek
c. 1916-1917
d. general

IV. a. The Monkey
b. Ratan Devi /Alice Ethel Coomaraswamy, née Richardson
c. 1916-1917

V. a. The Dog.
b. Anna Catherine Miller
c. 1917
d. Workings for money

4. The Camel / The Scarlet Woman Achitha/ Eve
b. Roddie Minor, or Mrs. Zain
c. 1917-1918
d. Amalantrah Workings

VI. a. Bazedon / Toad / Scorpion 4
b. Elsa Lowensohn Lincke
c. 1918
d. finances for Amalantrah working

5. a . Olun / Scorpion 2
b. Marie Roehling
c. 1918
d. help with Amalantrah Workings but still denoted as Scarlet Woman.

VII. a. Scorpion 1
b. Eva Tanguay
c. 1918
d. help with Amalantrah Workings

VIII. a. Wesrun / 333 / 888
b. Dorothy Troxel
c. 1918
d. help with Amalantrah Workings

6. a. unknown
b. Bertha Almeira Perckyl nee Bruce
c. AC states 'delayed assumption of duties, hence made way for number 7.' Can only assume it was the
1918 period.
d. general

7. a. The Ape /The Scarlet Woman Alostrael / "the last of the officers in my initiation"
b. Lea Hirsig
c. 1918-1923
d. Workings connected with Amalantrah and LAM/ Abbey of Thelema Workings/ Djeridensis Comment and visions

8. a. Soror Astrid
b. Dorothy Olsen
c. 1925-1926
d. Tunis Working

9. a. High Priestess of Voodoo
b. Marie de Miramar
c. 1928-1930
d. Voodoo / Fire spirit evocation / 'nameless fear'

10. a. Anu / The Monster
b. Hanni Jaeger
c. 1929-1931
d. general

11. a. Billle
b. Bertha Busch
c. 1931-1933
d. insane rows

12. a. Pearl
b. Evelyn Brooksmith
c. 1933-1936
d. to beget an heir (failed)

13. a. Pat
b. Dierdre Patricia Doherty MacAlpine
c. 1933, 1936-1938
d. To beget an heir (only success!) was Aleister Ataturk

if anyone else finds any more info out such as about the new entry number 6 or if someone else gets 'demoted' 🙂 let us know.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
12/03/2011 8:28 pm  
"christibrany" wrote:
if a woman rides a Beast in the kali yuga does that make her a scarlet woman? :-p

you would have to ask her that to know!!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
24/04/2011 2:48 am  

93 Care,

What about Frieda Harris? I remember seeing her name somewhere around, but perhaps she was just a fling?

93et93,
FT


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2199
24/04/2011 3:53 am  

I was of the notion and correct me anyone if I am wrong that Frieda Harris was just a friend, as Crowley was either too old for a fling, or they weren't inclined to that type of relationship or both.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/01/2018 3:15 am  

your list of "SW" "helping with Amalantrah Workings" is incorrect, probably based Beta & Heidick 1990 electronic version title and authorship section, which incorrectly also includes Mary Desti as a participant, which, as far I can tell from consulting the source material as much as possible, has no provenance, unless it is from the 3 fragments in OTO Archives not disclosed to me, or an as yet undisclosed source.

Yorke's introduction to Warburg-Yorke OSF5a, the most complete typescript, some of which is corrected by AC himself, and from which all other TSS known (to me: 2 complete, 1 fragment) derive, states that "The seeress throughout is Roddie Minor with two exception when she is replaced by Mrs Lincke (Soror Bazedon)". The record itself indicates that Marie Lavroff was present at only one working, on March 17, 1918, but was not the seer.

Neither Dorothy Troxel (Wesrun) or Eva Tanguay (Darola) were ever a part of the Working, based on the surviving records (including the "Rex de Arte Regia" diaries) but merely the objects of a number of AC's questions and "operations".

Finally, Roddie Minor's (first) married surname was Zimm, not Zain. She was married to acclaimed NY sculptor Bruno Louis Zimm sometime around 1916, was estranged by mid 1917, and divorced him in mid 1919.


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choronzonclub
(@choronzonclub)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 9
12/07/2018 7:08 am  

I think there is a problem of over generalization regarding assigning the title of Scarlet Woman to any women he had a magical sexual relationship. I think a close examination of the diaries, indicates that he only assigned this title to women he had sex with during their menstrual cycle. His own list of seven for instance does not include Leila Waddell, with whom he a lot sex including a lot of anal sex, never seems to have had sex with him during her period. The only one that I can find who isn't on the list of seven who fits the strict criterion is Pearl Brooksmith. One can make a list of 'Women Crowley had Sex With' or 'Women Crowley did Magick With,' and though there would be a lot of overlap even these the members of these two lists would not both contain the same elements.


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