Magi make mistakes. Don't think so? I present as evidence Crowley's pill-making scheme.
Crowley makes a distinct distintion between himself and "The Magus who works through me ..."
I susp0ect the pill scheme was the vehicle Crowley's idea ... not
That's important if you're selling books, I suppose.
It is not important, one way or another. Starfire pre-announces book to obtain funds to print them. Teitan says nothing 'til printed, thus avoiding all those messages about how things are running late - as if everything were not these days. I sometimes say nothing, often give out free chapters of works in progress, and other variations. My comments were merely observations. Of course it was already too late when the book idea arose ... after discussing Cefalu here. So here is the real true and practical secret of book marketing ...
"do whatever works"
Projects in alignment will the Universal Will will work. Those not will fail, or be grotesque.
these two books!!
An additional book ? I misseed something, I guess. In my last contact with consensual reality, there was only one
Just wait till you read these two books!! Oh my god you've no idea how much more there is!
We ARE waiting! 😉
I will ask if you've read the late Jake Stratton-Kent's "The Headless One?"
I had not until this past weekend, with a study group. I found a certain passage very interesting-and of relevance to our ongoing discussion.
Jake writes:
The Liber Samekh version of the ritual was devised at Cefalu for the use of Frank Bennett – Frater Progradior. The Goetia version of it is written at the back of Leah Hirsig's diary, and was used by her to commence new periods, and as a preparation for visions, including the following series where she apparently foresaw the Intercontinental Ballistic Missile.
This comment is followed by the below excerpts from Leah's diary:
January 17th 9 P.M.
After Amoun Invocation I asked for Light (IEHI AUR).
Thin stalked leaves with heavy birds on them as a previous vision.
I said 'I understand' and had a feeling of something definitely accomplished.
Later – Preliminary Invocation.
Started vision but couldn't hold it. A lion turned into a beetle which was really a sun
(Sign of) 7=4
Asked for someone of higher grade
(Sign of) 8=3 XI. (symbol) – a dog.
And no more!
Jan. 18th 9 P.M.
Ra Hoor Khuit invocation.
Asked for light
'Stir not' (heard)
Elixir (seen)
Jan. 19th. 5.30. P.M.
Preliminary Invocation (33 L)
War Engine
Met a dragon – who looked mild after 93
Flashes of (symbol) etc.
A man – his name – AUM - 84
Showed me that War Engine was of metal (very fine) and to be hurled. Not electricity.
danger of being seen hurling? No.
Jan. 20th. 7.30 - 8.30
A period of silence in which I invoke Neptune to look after OPV + Mss.
An anchor and a white bird flying over it.
later – Pre. Inv.
Concentration. – W.E. [War Engine]
(I forget much of what I saw.) A man in a simple dark robe carrying a red heart appeared eventually
& showed me a room where a man, a woman, and a child were eating in a very poor room. I got the
impression that the W.E. energy would be got for us by such a person – 93 changed the room and it was
illuminated by an 11 pointed star.
I was shown a rocky country – perhaps Russia – presumably the place where the energy would be found or created.
More – but nothing definite.'
I'm curious if Jake's interpretation of Leah's vision as foreseeing the Intercontinental Ballistic Missile was known to you and/or Anna. If not, you'll certainly want to add it into the book, I'm sure.
Also, is this an interpretation you both accept-or entertain...or do you understand the "War Engine" in a different sense?
This theme also seems to tie into the importance of the work of Jack Parsons, presently being discussed in another thread.
A very learned individual who was part of the alluded to discussion group commented that this is the first time he had read an interpretation of what the "war engine" actually was. I seem to recall suggestion from our forums here that it may refer to the Internet as the prime vehicle for the promulgation of Thelema. AL 3: 10, which follows shortly thereafter, was said to allude to the Stele as being broadcast and displayed through computer (and now cell phone) screens. "Miraculous color shall come back to it day after day." These screens are the "locked glass." "Proof to the world" is so all encompassing (covering the Globe...or Winged Globe as it moves and whirls through Space) by means of the World Wide Wide-Vau Vau Vau...not the Beast but his Number.
I think i may have been the first to suggest that the internet may be the War Engine, and also that the internet is the means of abstruction, making the Stele available in "locked glass" to all worldwide.
My other suggestion is that LSD is the War Engine.
I think i may have been the first to suggest that the internet may be the War Engine, and also that the internet is the means of abstruction, making the Stele available in "locked glass" to all worldwide.
This paragraph rolled around in my brain like a cannonball last night.
If you have a list (of your own) of unresolved inquiries, please be kind enough to re-assert them, and I will do my best to answer them in a straithforward fashion
If you print the references in one place I will respond in high fashion. If I have to look them up not much will happen.
I have them jotted down somewhere literally on the back of an envelope. As soon as I can tidy up a bit and hunt it down I shall try to oblige (unless someone else does so first - rather unlikely I know).
I currently have a "to do" list equivalent to the tasks of Hercules.
When he told the hints, I gathered them up and told the (hidden) story of how two deceased infants have reincarnated in twp presently-present folks linked to this forum thread. That is the whole story, as far a I am concerned. This is why I am not seen needling A.'. for further info - I do not care for further info.
This does not mean I am uninterested in further revelations,
I claim authority to be hintful from a particular line in the Tao Teh Ching.
An additional book ? I misseed something, I guess. In my last contact with consensual reality, there was only one
And not a lot of time to do the to do in.
I have spoken to a few folks about this and they do not find me demented, but they agree that time compression is a reality. About 3 years ago, I commented The Laws of Physics are not working properly ... or was it just Things don't work right ?
The Tibetans tell us about Changing Reality. Uh-huh.
That's the whole of a/the (5 minute) summary, not the whole story in all its intricate detail.
The Devil is in the details.
let some other poor buggerer do all the spade-work for you first though, eh?
Please do not refer to yourself in demeaning tones.
Actually, I have decided. 🤩 🤩 🤩
Cmon now, Shiva, don't be coy - which one would that be!?
It's about being old and apparently senile, but nevertheless being secretly alert. I wouldn't want to quote it in "marks" as I have not memo-rise-d it, yet. I will look it up, then I will memorize it, as it is the only authority I got.
Wouldn't that have been "Book 5"?
Yeah. I didn't miss it. I just mis-filed it due to confusion. A.'. is not able to write Dead Souls, but he is able to write Book 6, which I considered a separate subject, but then the contents or blurb about Book 5 has nove been offered, so it might be the same book, writ from two angles.
I think i may have been the first to suggest that the internet may be the War Engine, and also that the internet is the means of abstruction, making the Stele available in "locked glass" to all worldwide.
🙂
Hats off to you for rounding out my reference and for the still very interesting insight.
My other suggestion is that LSD is the War Engine
Interesting to note that WAR is RAW (Robert Anton Wilson) backwards. Furthermore, it was RAW (in Cosmic Trigger, I believe) who relates how Timothy Leary (LSD Guru) asked the Tarot:
“Who am I and what is my destiny?”
The answer was, of course, the Ace of Discs, "To Mega Therion."
LSD as Lamed-Samekh-Daleth = 94 (one relevant entry in 777 is "The Valley of Vision")
LSD as Lamed-Samekh-Daleth = 94
Hell that's close enough to the magick 93 there, Kyle! And if you go by one of Uncle Ken's cardinal rules of Cabbala (= add or subtract one "for Unity")... well then, it's a perfect match!
the late Jake Stratton-Kent's
On a heavier note, I was saddened to read this (which I missed before) as I was very fond of old Jake and we were in the same magical group doing practical work for two or three years back in the 90s. Do you have any information as to how, when, where, (what) etc? The last time I saw him, he seemed in fine spirits, and not at all like someone whom Allan Bennett might admonish for 'messing with the Goetia'!
Wishing you much enjoyment with your greater feast, dear friend & frater
Interesting to note that WAR is RAW (Robert Anton Wilson) backwards.
Bouncing back on a lighter note again (it's been a veritable emotional trampoline round at chez moi this evening) he also noted, I believe, that although DOG spelled backwards was GOD - BOB (the adopted given moniker of the leader of the Church of the Sub-Genius, J.R. 'Bob' Dobbs) spelled backwards was exactly the SAME.
That's some seriously spooky stuff shit right there eh?!
N Jiy
Hell that's close enough to the magick 93 there, Kyle!
But if we stick with the original 94 and read it in context of L-S-D = WAR ENGINE, it is also of interest to note that 777 has both "Destruction" and "To Extinguish" as well as "Corpse" under this number. Fitting for an "Engine of War," yes?
I would think "this Weapon" would pertain to more, then, to SHIVA, THE DESTROYER OF ILLUSIONS than the IBM as THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Do you have any information as to how, when, where, (what) etc? The last time I saw him, he seemed in fine spirits, and not at all like someone whom Allan Bennett might admonish for 'messing with the Goetia'!
Jan 17, 2023.
He was doing poorly for some time before he died. There are a lot of tribute posts and information on his facebook page. A google search will bring up a lot of tributes and information, also.
That's some seriously spooky stuff shit
or POOP-which the New Ipsissimus may have noted
spelled backwards was exactly the SAME.
I'm curious if Jake's interpretation of Leah's vision as foreseeing the Intercontinental Ballistic Missile was known to you and/or Anna. If not, you'll certainly want to add it into the book, I'm sure.
Also, is this an interpretation you both accept-or entertain...or do you understand the "War Engine" in a different sense?
That is very interesting, obviously, and we thank you so much for the info, which we haven't seen. Of course, in relation to Anna's book, it isn't so much what we think that matters: all that matters is what Aleister and Leah actually thought.
An additional book ? I misseed something, I guess. In my last contact with consensual reality, there was only one
Book 5. It's a very big, very impactful book. It will be a monumental task if I can pull it off, but I am going to do it as long as I have breath in me. Anna has, as usual, inspired me to action! Her book is going well, I can assure you.
although DOG spelled backwards was GOD - BOB (the adopted given moniker of the leader of the Church of the Sub-Genius, J.R. 'Bob' Dobbs) spelled backwards was exactly the SAME.
Oedipus knew that MOM, read upside down, is WOW.
A.'. is not able to write Dead Souls, but he is able to write Book 6, which I considered a separate subject, but then the contents or blurb about Book 5 has nove been offered, so it might be the same book, writ from two angles.
Totally different book by a different author. Gospel is a non-fiction story that tells a tale, and Book 5 is a book of magick.
That is very interesting, obviously, and we thank you so much for the info, which we haven't seen. Of course, in relation to Anna's book, it isn't so much what we think that matters: all that matters is what Aleister and Leah actually thought.
This is not quite true, though, is it?
Even if one ardently believes that Sir Aleister Crowley was the appointed and anointed Prophet of the New Aeon, one must admit that he doesn't have the final say (or even ANYTHING to say) about every single thing...and that includes aspects of his OWN MATERIAL and WORK.
Liber Al 2:76 (the infamous cipher verse) states:
What meaneth this, o prophet? Thou knowest not; nor shalt thou know ever. There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it
So, whatever Aleister thought can be dismissed here. He's NEVER going to know what it means. The one who comes AFTER is the one who is going to have something to say.
I realize you qualify your statement by the words
in relation to Anna's book
but, as we have been led to understand, this book will be far more than a work of academic research into matters of verifiable historicity. The aspects of this project which "go beyond" belong to the realm of the "occult." And it IS yourself and Anna who are, purportedly, forward looking in this regard (in a "revelatory" fashion).
I would assume that your personal role in the unfolding sequence of Aeonic events would necessitate more than what
Aleister and Leah actually thought.
Ergo, I presented Jake's thoughts on the War Engine (with specific reference to Leah) with interest in what you (in this new incarnation) had to say about it.
As a side, my vote will go to Ignant's commentary. If the War Engine given unto the Beast to smite the people is an IBM, we may as well conflate Horus with Jehovah, the Beast with Kim Jong Un. As I previously referenced RAW, I'll note that he interpreted missiles fired between nations as akin to shit thrown by monkeys to assert primate dominance (Cosmic Trigger 2, if I recall correctly).
Let's hope the Aeon of Horus heralds more of a projection forward into new realms of consciousness and potential and not a return to pre-Christic Big Daddy tribalism. But even in his "progressive" eye-peckin' "to the lions" talk, AC DOES, time after time, show the impress-and continuance-of the cruel and bloodthirsty creature who receives sacrifice, perpetuates war and was the ORIGINAL "God of Vengeance."
I would assume that your personal role in the unfolding sequence of Aeonic events would necessitate more than what
Aleister and Leah actually thought.
Okay, well, as for myself, I think (from looking at surrounding verses and considering the words carefully), bearing in mind that all of this is more or less veiled, that "war" here probably means something else, e.g. the opposition of the sexes (in Thelemic Tantra) colliding unto union in sexual ferocity.
By Angloqabalah [A=1 thru Z=26, Natural Order of Letters]:
enginery=97=a war-engine; serpent; supreme
"awake the lust & worship of the Snake"=358=NChSh, the Serpent.
also, earlier:
"fortify it"=128="chance of union"; "do thy will"; "the hand & the pen".
By the way, obviously I realize that such an off-the-wall view would likely be unpopular. A literal meaning is usually the preferred one among many. But that last verse is a pretty strong caveat, no?
It's about being old and apparently senile, but nevertheless being secretly alert.
A.'. is not able to write Dead Souls, but he is able to write Book 6, which I considered a separate subject, but then the contents or blurb about Book 5 has nove been offered, so it might be the same book, writ from two angles.
Book 5 is a book of magick.
the New Ipsissimus may have noted
considering the words carefully), bearing in mind that all of this is more or less veiled, that "war" here probably means something else, e.g. the opposition of the sexes (in Thelemic Tantra) colliding unto union in sexual ferocity
- you mean it was similar to like it was the Wednesday before last, but not yet here again.
Neti-neti.
Ah So! You meant like with The Book of the Lauds and Liber AL?
Yeah, but even further apart in style. But this is just hallow-incination, as A.'. Has said, "No," to this proposition.
Book 6 [above, if not a typo]?
That is my typo. I read it and thought, "WTF?" that being a powerful interrogation, adding to XXI in the olden QBL. But then, at a certain point[s], 5=6 and 6=5, so I let it slide (the "Edit" tyler had retired.
- say, how many Ips are there meant to be anyway?)
This Ip stuff, as presented by O.M., is a bunch of decoration on the core princip0le. The core principal involves severing contact with the physical plane. In the Bible, chosens were taken up into Heaven without dying - that sort of thing.
Currently, all the Ips and Chohans (a title from the other stream that actually talks about this in detail, rather than making a big hoop d'doo about the secrecy - more carrotry), have postponed their departure due to the present, ongoing, world crisis.
In the Thelemic paradigm, there is and was, only one. Anybody else would be ashamed to use such a fancy, supreme, Latin title. Those that do use it are mere liars, to quote a close source.
Book 5 is a book of magick.
(Come to think of it, wasn't that Reguli?) What the flip then is Book 6 [above, if not a typo]?
It's not Liber V (Crowley did that little teeny book) -- it's Book 5. No Latin in this title.
the New Ipsissimus may have noted
Ah Ha, what's with all this 'New'... Peter Carrroll was the last "claimant" that I was aware of!(Does this now make him "Old" - say, how many Ips are there meant to be anyway?)
Whatever do you mean?? Who is claiming to be an Ipsissimus? Not I, not anybody as far as I know.
considering the words carefully), bearing in mind that all of this is more or less veiled, that "war" here probably means something else, e.g. the opposition of the sexes (in Thelemic Tantra) colliding unto union in sexual ferocity
How does this apparently more cisgender-type approach fit in with your earlier position that in rituals the sexes are not nearly so rigidly defined and can be freely swapped around, etc? And re. your "war"-like stance above, are you making out a case for "angry sex" as a particularly recommended practical sex-magickal technique here?
It isn't biologically male versus female tantra we're describing, of course, but masculine versus feminine. And it isn't your typical "angry sex", either, or it wouldn't be something we didn't have already!
The "enginery of war", rather, would be a certain way of doing it. A way that opens certain doors.
Yes, sex-magick.
It's not Liber V (Crowley did that little teeny book) -- it's Book 5. No Latin in this title.
Book 5, as in the next big magick book to follow Aleister Crowley's magnificent Book 4.
Unlike Gospel of Dead Souls, however, to which I contribute nothing, I am not exclusively author of Book 5, and Anna actually contributes material to Book 5 -- in fact, a large bulk of it is hers. As for that "Dead Souls" question which Jamie posed a while ago, our interpretation thereof is key to the whole vault.
Neti-neti.
Currently, all the Ips and Chohans (a title from the other stream that actually talks about this in detail, rather than making a big hoop d'doo about the secrecy - more carrotry), have postponed their departure due to the present, ongoing, world crisis.
In the Thelemic paradigm, there is and was, only one. Anybody else would be ashamed to use such a fancy, supreme, Latin title.
Book 5, as in the next big magick book to follow Aleister Crowley's magnificent Book 4.
Can you be saying it's going to be of a similar size to ye old Big Blue Breezeblock there?
In the Thelemic paradigm, there is and was, only one. Anybody else would be ashamed to use such a fancy, supreme, Latin title.
And nay, was none i' faith, as according to the legend dogma no one (Nemo? Nema?) was supposed to lay claim to anything above Magus anyhow since to do so was to expose oneself as prideful and going against & disregarding the rules of the game (as set up down by O.M.)
Why should that be? It was NOT Crowley that set up anything...it was Aiwaz, after all...
Book 5. No Latin in this title.
Its Latin title is Liber BAB. In the English, Book 5.
considering the words carefully), bearing in mind that all of this is more or less veiled, that "war" here probably means something else, e.g. the opposition of the sexes (in Thelemic Tantra) colliding unto union in sexual ferocity
How does this apparently more cisgender-type approach fit in with your earlier position that in rituals the sexes are not nearly so rigidly defined and can be freely swapped around, etc? And re. your "war"-like stance above, are you making out a case for "angry sex" as a particularly recommended practical sex-magickal technique here?
It isn't biologically male versus female tantra we're describing, of course, but masculine versus feminine. And it isn't your typical "angry sex", either, or it wouldn't be something we didn't have already!
The "enginery of war", rather, would be a certain way of doing it. A way that opens certain doors.
As I see it, the remainder of chapter 3 of Liber Legis, to verse 30, describes the ritual of the war-engine.
Ah Ha, what's with all this 'New'... Peter Carrroll was the last "claimant" that I was aware of!(Does this now make him "Old" - say, how many Ips are there meant to be anyway?)
Whatever do you mean?? Who is claiming to be an Ipsissimus? Not I, not anybody as far as I know
My allusion was to Crowley himself as having newly attained Ip-state i.e. the "New Ipsissimus."
Not that one can claim attainment to that which one already is...and is not.
Crowley himself as having newly attained Ip-state i.e. the "New Ipsissimus."
This is correct in several dimensions. There is no evidence in my brain that the word Ipsissimus was used by anyone before AC. Therefore, anyone reaching this grade, like Therion, would be "new" as he is the first.
Anybody coming after him should be cool and create their own Order and name for the 10th degree. In certain ryu of the martiarts, when one reaches 10th dan (the highest grade), they take off their black belt and put on a white one (the belt of the beginner - but we know of a secret correlation that liks white to the top of the bean-stalk.
There is no evidence in my brain that the word Ipsissimus was used by anyone before AC
Nor mine. I may be proved wrong but I was introduced to the term via AC's One Star. Have yet to see it anywhere beforehand.
Therefore, anyone reaching this grade, like Therion, would be "new" as he is the first.
This is the penultimate grade in the Temple of Set as I am led to understand. It's not 10 but 6. Various living individuals and authors connected to the group claim the title.
they take off their black belt and put on a white one (the belt of the beginner - but we know of a secret correlation that links white to the top of the bean-stalk.
"After another manner."
Arthur Waite, in his "Pictorial Key to the Tarot," speaks of how those in the Church who have had a certain "high level" experience do not proceed to become pontiff-but take on the role of doorman. Likewise, Hermann Hesse expresses something of the same thing ("after another manner") in his "Journey to the East" when the identity of the Grand Master is revealed.
There was a Rosicrucian adage given to me early on in my voyage which said that those claiming to be Rosicrucians were, most assuredly, not. Mayhap claimants to IP are to be regarded in this same fashion. And Magi. And Magister Templi.
Conversely, who am I to set rules around this?
There is wisdom in AL 2:58. Which, of course, is just Crowley repackaging Jesus in Matthew 7 (v. 16-20).
There is no evidence in my brain that the word Ipsissimus was used by anyone before AC
Nor mine. I may be proved wrong but I was introduced to the term via AC's One Star. Have yet to see it anywhere beforehand.
This of course proves nothing. This Reality of Supernal Clarity (as I call the State of being an Ipsissimus) pre-existed the man called Crowley, just as Therion did. That others have achieved this State, in the countless species of sentience across countless worlds over countless aeons, is inevitable.
By the way, we're drifting far off-course in the vast seas of this thread...
This of course proves nothing. This Reality of Supernal Clarity (as I call the State of being an Ipsissimus) pre-existed the man called Crowley, just as Therion did. That others have achieved this State, in the countless species of sentience across countless worlds over countless aeons, is inevitable.
This of course is irrelevant. The question being discussed is about the first person to use the "Ip" terminology, not some alleged pre-existing "the universe is busy with nothing else" Ip state.
It should be noted, with regard to the Ipsissimus ritual itself, that, in her diary, Leah Hirsig wrote the following:
“May ?, 1921 The Big Operation - Ipsissimus. I proclaimed Babalon."
Also, with regard to the war-engine, Leah wrote:
"We are merely preparing for the war to come. The idea of the W.E. is like everything else; one must get it gradually in whatever form one needs it. You cannot take the injunctions literally (not yet) and all will come in time."
This suggests that it is a power that is in the sphere of the initiate of the law of Thelema.
This is the penultimate grade in the Temple of Set as I am led to understand. It's not 10 but 6.
Kether, as 10=1 is also the sixth initiation in both the TransHim and A.'.A.'..
It is noted that the G.D. followed the Tree up, having a ceremony at every sphere. Note that A.'.A.'. has them here: Malkuth, Yesod, Tiphareth, Binah, Chokmah, Kether = 6, with Kether penultimate to Ain Soph Aur (AA), or the 7th initiation of TransHim, which is (finally) the true "ascension," which in street-lingo means got out.
Mayhap claimants to IP are to be regarded in this same fashion. And Magi. And Magister Templi.
According to the gaming rules of the A.'.A.'., which were made-up by Crowley, based on previous Ordos, their successes and failures, A Magister is governed by Silence - yet we see VVVVV running his motor out loud, a lot.
There is no excuse for a Magus. He (or any She who makes the claim) must openly declare their status/nature, saying "I am here." Then they unload their paradigm. In TransHim, a Master of the 5th initiation (Chokmah) merely "undertakes a project relating to the advancement of evolution, which has both an esoteric and an exoteric aspect."
Ips are not allowed to say Shinola , even to other members of the Order. I see, said the blind man. The A.'.A.'. starts off with Mystery is the Enemy of Truth ... then ends with and , because ...in a Secret Closet ? Give us a break.
The conditions attending a Chohan of the 6th init of Transhim (Kether) are very much fully described, without veiling or secreting or occulting the nature of what is going on. An interesting quote says, "The sixth initiation is merely preparatory for the sevent initiation of ascension." ... There then arises a certain difficulty. The Chohan is off-planet - not as an alien, but certainly extra-terrestrial as he/she is open to solar energies - because one has "stepped out from under the Hierarchy and translated that link to a higher center" (which is called Shamballa in the Orient, but Ain Soph Aur over here (in the West, which is divided by the Atlantis Gulf.
Conversely, who am I to set rules around this?
I heregby authorize you to set your own rules. It depends on how much flak you can take. We have a few living 8=3 claimants around. Since these 8=3s attempt to exp0lain the universe in linear terms, while signing 8=3, we have a Los-ly chuckle. Not too many 9=2s around; some. Those that I know of (only two) are oppositic. One is continuing the old tradition, maintaining the Word and the tradition. The other is introducing a new, or at least modified version of the paradigm. Both have posted here, both are known; both have declared themselves. There are other contenders, but with that sig of 9=2 after their Magus-ickal Name appears in dried ink or black digits in locked glass, they are not to be counted (in my brain book).
The Ips (Boyd, Carroll, et al) who are announcing their status, while standing in a physical body in front of another person, or a thousand persons in an Auditorium, are kidding themselves and misleading the audience. If they were to say, I am an Ip, then dematerialize ... or if they were to come into being via materialization ... we should take then very seriously. Otherwise, please see this in light of egomania, or possibly superegomania, and we can laugh as it is tyhe core of the universal joke.
The question being discussed is about the first person to use the "Ip" terminology, not some ... {state}
Right. The term, the title. Not the state or the validity of the claim.
There is no evidence in my brain that the word Ipsissimus was used by anyone before AC. Therefore, anyone reaching this grade, like Therion, would be "new" as he is the first.
I may be proved wrong but I was introduced to the term via AC's One Star. Have yet to see it anywhere beforehand.
Anybody coming after him should be cool and create their own Order and name for the 10th degree.
"After another manner."
So that instead of (not) being able to write 10=1, show-offs can mention 1=10 instead.
But it's not quite the same thang though is it? <nb insert ermoticon of someone pulling a sad face)
Mayhap claimants to IP are to be regarded in this same fashion. And Magi. And Magister Templi.
Low, lowly, lowest...
This of course is irrelevant. The question being discussed is about the first person to use the "Ip" terminology, not some alleged pre-existing "the universe is busy with nothing else" Ip state.
It should be noted, with regard to the Ipsissimus ritual itself, that, in her diary, Leah Hirsig wrote the following:
“May ?, 1921 The Big Operation - Ipsissimus. I proclaimed Babalon."
Is it known exactly what she proclaimed [as] Babalon? Or how? Or why (i.e., was [nb, not Aiwass] told to do so by Therion)?
Ips are not allowed to say Shinola , even to other members of the Order.
It's always possible that a "newbie" reading this might assume that the 10=1 is not permitted to actually express this particular forbidden word (in the same way that no one is allowed to say 'Jehovah' in the Life of Brian.)
that link to a higher center" (which is called Shamballa in the Orient, but Ain Soph Aur over here (in the West,
It automatically begs the question though, doesn't it, of what about links to Ain Soph and then Ain and then...(=even higher)?
Not too many 9=2s around; some. Those that I know of (only two) are oppositic. One is continuing the old tradition, maintaining the Word and the tradition. The other is introducing a new, or at least modified version of the paradigm. Both have posted here, both are known; both have declared themselves.
Refresh our memory of these show-offs self-declarers, please.
'И ∫ºY
It's always possible that a "newbie" reading this might assume that the 10=1 is not permitted to actually express this particular forbidden word (in the same way that no one is allowed to say 'Jehovah' in the Life of Brian.)
It might then become necessary to explain to said newbs the difference between "shit" and "Shinola" (and that one might occasionally serve as a euphemism for the other).
It should be noted, with regard to the Ipsissimus ritual itself, that, in her diary, Leah Hirsig wrote the following:
“May ?, 1921 The Big Operation - Ipsissimus. I proclaimed Babalon."
Well, that's close - but not close enough!Is it known exactly what she proclaimed [as] Babalon? Or how? Or why (i.e., was [nb, not Aiwass] told to do so by Therion)?
Interesting words: "The Big Operation". Not merely a simple ceremony, it seems. It involved, I would think, her Attainment and his.
"I proclaimed Babalon" makes no sense. I think she means "I was proclaimed Babalon" - which, if so, is extraordinary.
I will ask if you've read the late Jake Stratton-Kent's "The Headless One?"
The definitive work on the topic, in my opinion.
Peter Carrroll was the last "claimant" that I was aware of!
I can think of at least two more claimants. Michael Aquino and Don Webb.
BOB (the adopted given moniker of the leader of the Church of the Sub-Genius, J.R. 'Bob' Dobbs) spelled backwards was exactly the SAME.
Praise "Bob"!
(in the same way that no one is allowed to say 'Jehovah' in the Life of Brian.)
<throws rock>
Refresh our memory of these show-offs self-declarers, please.
I would like to know as well.
This is the penultimate grade in the Temple of Set as I am led to understand. It's not 10 but 6. Various living individuals and authors connected to the group claim the title.
Can confirm.
[Content within brackets added by me:]
"@jamiejbarter":
"I believe according to the rules of Crowley's game though, that even lowly 8=3s are able to create their own Order/ lineage sin-offs from the A.'. A.'., much to the dislike of those in the Motta-ite spin-off."
It was also mentioned in some Constitution/ Bill of Rights-type small print that the same is also true of the O.T.O. at IXth Degree level, until the current incumbent head deleted it."
Any such — potential or hypothetical — "s[p]in-offs" being submissive to or controlled by authority duly derived from or via Aleister Crowley, is in line with the position within the Thelema derived from or via Aleister Crowley, of accepting the term Duplexity, understood as referring "... to the relationship that is shared between the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'. with regard to promulgating the Law of [the aforementioned] Thelema[*]."
[*] Keith Readdy: 2018 edition of, One Truth and One Spirit: Aleister Crowley's Spiritual Legacy, page 285, [Chapter 13] "Duplexity and the Mystic Marriage"[.]
@wellreadwellbred So you added [p], [the aforementioned] (totally superfluous) and 2 [*]. I would think it would be more helpful to look what AC had to say about all of that than (in this case) Keith Readdy who may or may have not his own agenda on the matter.
In my posting posted "27/11/2023 8:51 am" in this thread, I mention "... the position within the Thelema derived from or via Aleister Crowley, of accepting the term Duplexity, understood as referring "... to the relationship that is shared between the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'. with regard to promulgating the Law of [the aforementioned] Thelema[...]."
My just mentioned posting posted "27/11/2023 8:51 am" in this thread, was posted in respons to @jamiejbarter's posting earlier in this thread, where the latter states that persons without the topmost rank, "... according to the rules of Crowley's game [...] are able to create their own Order/ lineage s[p]in-offs from the A.'. A.'. [...][,] the same is also true of the O.T.O. ...", and also states "... until the current incumbent head [of the O.T.O.] deleted it."
The by me already mentioned "...position within the Thelema derived from or via Aleister Crowley, of accepting the term Duplexity, understood as referring "... to the relationship that is shared between the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'. with regard to promulgating the Law of [the aforementioned] Thelema.", is a poistion that is against the creation of s[p]in-offs of the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'.
As for you the_real_simon_iff, thinking "... it would be more helpful to look what AC had to say about all of that than (in this case) Keith Readdy who may or may have not his own agenda on the matter.", my point is that the Duplexity said Keith Readdy presents with respect to the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'., is helpful for both of them with respect to coordination of their work, with regard to promulgating the Law of Thelema.
In my posting posted "27/11/2023 8:51 am" in this thread ... My just mentioned posting posted "27/11/2023 8:51 am" in this thread, was posted in respons to @jamiejbarter's posting earlier in this thread, where the latter states .. The by me already mentioned ... of [the aforementioned] Thelema ... said Keith Readdy presents with respect to ...
With all due respect, this is getting out of hand. There should be at least "a little" joy in reading posts but this is ridiculous.
I said your quoting of Mr. Readdy is more or less irrelevant without knowing what AC really said, and it is just my guess (though not neccessarily my opinion) that a substantial part of the "Thelemic community" doesn't give a sh*t about what Mr. Readdy has to say and it doesn't really add anything to Jamie's point in question either.
it was the highest grade in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
Oh, I didn't gnow that. I did trace A.'.A.'. back to the G.D. Their incarnated degrees stopped at 7=4 (Mathers, D.D.S., others?), so that's pretty much the story we get. We know they had designations for the supernal, and finding out how much Crowley just transported over to the new aeon now seems to include the whole shipment of grapes to make old wine and put it in new bottles. Which he did.
I believe according to the rules of Crowley's game though, that even lowly 8=3s are able to create their own Order/ lineage sin-offs from the A.'. A.'., much to the dislike of those in the Motta-ite spin-off.
Correcto (in Castillian or Mexican). However, I would like to shine the light upon certain off-shooters and established but extinguished Orders ... They all seem to have become attached to the fact that they are an A.'.A.'. lineage3, and they like to use the A.'.A.'. seal ... etc. They do this despite that fact that I have warned them, but ...
8=3s are authorized to found orders dependent on themselves, to cover things that Crowley didn't include. I am looking very closely at any and all claimants to anything esoteric. I see a lot of 6=5s, claiming 8=3 or 9=2. I do not see their Thesis, I do not see absolute self-reliance (as they are merely Crowley-quoting and riding along on his coat-tails.
All this for a set of initials that were made-up, and I have never seen them on any plane. I did see a magbnificent "A" in the style of Anheiser-Busch (sic?). The only time I ever saw three dots, .'., was on the physical plane when three stars broke the horizon in the East at my Neophyte do-dad deep in the desert do-do.
We are talking about supernal grades here, of which there is only one, but it is rolled out in Tamas - Rajas - Sattvas style, just like the Inner and Outer triads below. I am herewith stopped and inclined to turn off my ignition switchb ...
Motta also had the belief that there was a correlation between IXths and 8=3 where they were to be regarded as compatible in some esoteric fashion (again, going by [his revision of] the rules of the game.)
A IX may be equated with a 6=5, nothing higher. And that equation depends on them having done the work of a 6=5, which is grounds for skepticism as OTO requires no work to advance, it being a "fraternal" order and not a "teaching" order, by it's own definition. Since Motta was medico-legally insane, by his own definitions, I consider his work worthless. The leaders of legal-offici8al OTO started out under him, then ran for their lives. Everybody has no graduate or escape from the Outer Order. I did the same thing in Solar, and I built it [!].
It's always possible that a "newbie" reading this might assume that the 10=1 is not permitted to actually express this particular forbidden word (in the same way that no one is allowed to say 'Jehovah' in the Life of Brian.)
I see multiple references to newbies or common folk and their reaction/interpretatioon noted on parallel threads. There seems to be concern about what a non-initiate would think or do. <haha>
All the ru7les are made-up Guidelines. If a person were smart, they'd do all the Outer Libers exactly as shown. They can forget that and find there own way through the Inner (it's like climbing a mountain, Ab.'.). By the time the Super is encountered, it's an entirely new game. There are no rules. Any Ip can say I am it, and Therion or OM are not around to shush them. Any speculation on what goes on in the penthouse, and what rules apply, is like a squaking duck quack.
Anyone who wishes to deliver messages from the outer zones is okay in my brain-book. At least the message is< there to be looked at and accepted or denied. But comments on higher grades by folks who have not signed 8=3 or 9=2 are quacks. I will even accept statements by folks who are NOT those higher equations in print or digits, who have entered the states associated with those grades - that is, one does not have to be an 8=3 to catch a ride in samadhi. Of course, if they do, this indicates they have an active (passive, actually) 8=3 lying in waiting.
But such folks (that I accept in my brain-book) are always speaking from direct experience. Debating the qualities on a person or a grade, based on One Star, is suitable for the low men. How low can we go? I have just stooped low, a difficult thing to do when the vehicle's frame is rusting, and delivered a low blow. I am saving the finishing blow for later, depending on the ,haha. blowback.
Please do not interpret my comments as any form of rule-setting for other people or forums. I tried to be clear that I am expressing my standards.
It automatically begs the question though, doesn't it, of what about links to Ain Soph and then Ain and then...(=even higher)?
Yes. Ain Soph Aur (in our book) is called "The Logoic Plane" in streams that do not stop where Crowley left off. It is defined as the &th initiation (praeterhum) (Human evolution ends at Chokmah)There are nine degrees in all (complete) versions of the cosmic hologram. So, yeah, there's a ninth. I would happily dig out the defintions of those grades, and I will when Ib come across them in my proof-reading of Series D, now finished but needing a broom and dustpan.
Refresh our memory of these show-offs self-declarers, please.
No. If you know of anyone actively claiming Magus status, right, now. other than one regular poster here, and one head of one lineage that rarely posts here, please name them so I can bring them into focus.
"I proclaimed Babalon" makes no sense. I think she means "I was proclaimed Babalon" - which, if so, is extraordinary.
Your interpretation makes sense. It was my first take on what shemeant. I also notice that she, as well as AC under certain circumstances (like Cairo), are very bad diary-record keepers. The rules say that the record must be writ so that another person may read them and know what they are saying. Another example of Do as I say, not as I do.
Jamie, add this one to The List of "do as's."
what AC had to say about all of that than (in this case) Keith Readdy who may or may have not his own agenda on the matter.
Crowley (O.M.) said 8=3s could form their own order, dependent on themselves,, not on Crowley or anybody else. There is no written reference, anywhere, that says IXs can found orders Iwithout a note from BafometR, but this was the shared understanding of everybody up to and including McM, who had his "conditional" IXs swear they would not exercise their initiatory or founding rights until after his death. He then died and the lodge was legally seized, and the rules were quickly redefined.
The only written authority in print for a IX is "He acts as a representative of the Grnd Master Baphomet (spelled incorrectly) ..." That's all.
Oh yeah - when one concludes the IX ceremony, the copy Emblems then sign it Baphomet with the sig-embem. In my case, the Initiator said, "Now there's one more Baphomet."
And your next post will be number 8088, wow, but the last one, well, I thank you for your post and clarifications! One might even say that you are providing a considerable public service, though I think the proper word is to cross out public, and just recognize your posting your thoughts as: Service!
(this I think reflects upon many of the posts of yours I have read.)
It might then become necessary to explain to said newbs the difference between "shit" and "Shinola" (and that one might occasionally serve as a euphemism for the other).
You mean, as in "say, you're talking Shinola". But if not as a euphemism, I'm not quite sure what it would stand for to represent. ("Shite" is a further variation; I'm not sure why or when that apparently superfluous extra 'e' was added.on.)
"I proclaimed Babalon" makes no sense. I think she means "I was proclaimed Babalon" - which, if so, is extraordinary.
My understanding when I first read this was more something alng the lines of "I proclaimed forth as Babalon, using her voice and words as if I was possessed by her spirit" - that would take care of the how. But why did it happen & what did she utter?
Incidentally, Al (may I call you Al?), out of interest: if you can't tell us (yet) what Dead Souls means, can you at least reveal when you came up with the title - would it have been after I started asking about it (as I can't seem to find any reference to it as 'Gospel' before)?
[Jake S-K] was doing poorly for some time before he died.
He may have been unwell towards the end as the last time I last saw was a couple of years before the covid-hoopla started, at a Nova Stella talk he gave in Farringdon.which was when he seemed to be in v. good (i.e. all ship-) shape & spirits and which is how I would like to fondly remember him
(in the same way that no one is allowed to say 'Jehovah' in the Life of Brian.)
@katrice: <throws rock>
Ha, ha, ha! That's very funny!
(Ouch! Bloody hellfire, that hurt!)
Refresh our memory of these show-offs self-declarers, please.
@katrice: I would like to know as well.
No.
Oh... so much for that then, katrice!
If you know of anyone actively claiming Magus status, right, now. other than one regular poster here, and one head of one lineage that rarely posts here, please name them so I can bring them into focus.
The author of The Book of The Lauds is clearly one, though. Which I thought was quite good, taken on its own terms actually..
my point is that the Duplexity said Keith Readdy presents with respect to the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'.
O wise well, do you know when this term first originated in this context?
I see multiple references to newbies or common folk and their reaction/interpretatioon noted on parallel threads. There seems to be concern about what a non-initiate would think or do. <haha>
Those newbs, eh? More of 'em all the time! I do declare, thugh, my own concern was 'Lip' service and only skin-deep. <ho ho ho!> (<--- a xmassy variation)
I would happily dig out the defintions of those grades, and I will when Ib come across them in my proof-reading of Series D, now finished but needing a broom and dustpan.
I am looking forward to its revelations. (By the bye, Shiva, I just know you'll be fascinated to learn that in Great Britain we use the expression "dustpan and brush")
N-Jyoo
You mean, as in "say, you're talking Shinola". ... etc
Here is what this comes down to ...
[official proclaimation]
Lucifer" means The Shining One. I am Shinola.
[close pooclaim ation]
Commentary
see also: payola, any cola (including Spanish for "flowering and fruiting bud"), and Hola!, a book.
It is imperative that you understand, agree, sign, and re-proclaim the basic truth that cuts through the clutter ... Every initiate is a shining-one in gross mode, a shining ola [101]. To find one's true nature is to admit that one is a fallen angel, thus moving up to the second grade of "shining one," itself] without the -ola suffix.
In conjunction with this confession and resurrection as an angel, one has to deal with the Lucifer-Satan thoughtform and prejudice, as practiced by most people who do not even know Shinola. Okay, fine, but Lucifer is not Satan. You are Lucifer - so am I - Satan is a made-up name. To comfort your mind and release the pressure cooker lid in our solar Ps, try this one on for size ...
(devas & asuras - angels & demons),
came to Earth from the etheric planes
of Venus ... 18 mil annums ago
the Decent of Lucifer and the
Fallen Angels
Somewhere in this short revel, we are to be found. And so is Aiwass (slowly bending the Shining River back on topic) ...
"dustpan and brush"
This is a big book, which in itself is a collection of booklets, some rather long, which are are connected in dimensional order. Fortunately, I have run the spell-chehered AI-snoop as well as read the text multiple times. Still, a final run through will require a shovel, not just a broom or a brush.
I believe that is enough free marketing on Leah's time ...
- Satan is a made-up name.
According to the scriptures and the ancient papyri though, his real name was Stan Robinson (Stan as in Laurel, and Robinson as in Jesus loves you, Mrs.)
But he thought 'Stan' was simply not HARDCORE enough for his image, and the Robinson part - well, that just had to go altogether (of course.)
All those who know the truth & can see his real nature still address him as Stan, though.
said Keith Readdy presents with respect to the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'.,
Incidentally, well, I meant to asK: do you mean "presents" here as in the same sense of what babboons do with their rear ends when they're bent over and in heat?
N Joy
"... said Keith Readdy presents with respect to the O.T.O. and the A.'.A.'., ..."
Posted by: @jamiejbarter
"Incidentally, well, I meant to asK: do you mean "presents" here as in the same sense of what babboons do with their rear ends when they're bent over and in heat?
N Joy"
No, Jamie J (as Jamie Barter is your signature in a blog about the O.T.O. on this site: https://www.lashtal.com/jamie-barter-chapter-12-the-oto-its-relevance-today/, is using this letter J in your name optional? What does this letter J in your name stand for?) Barter.
I meant to write: "... [re-]presents with respect to the O.T.O and the A.'.A.'., ...".
As in "to speak for a person, organization, etc.:". (Source, Cambridge Dictionary: "Meaning of represent in English". - - - https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/represent [.])
Isn't Stan Robinson often seen at barbecues, bowling alley's or on the golf course with none other than Bob Dobbs?
Posted by: @shiva
"If you know of anyone actively claiming Magus status, right, now. other than one regular poster here, and one head of one lineage that rarely posts here, please name them so I can bring them into focus."
Who is the "... actively claiming Magus status, right, now [...] one head of one lineage that rarely posts here, ..."?
Incidentally, Al (may I call you Al?), out of interest: if you can't tell us (yet) what Dead Souls means, can you at least reveal when you came up with the title - would it have been after I started asking about it (as I can't seem to find any reference to it as 'Gospel' before)?
You may call me whatever you like! And of course I can tell you anything I know. The true meaning of Dead Souls I understand, but it requires me to think for a moment for my explanation to do it justice. This particular phrase is huge. Let me meditate on it first awhile to ensure the words are right, however at the moment I'm concentrating on Book 5. I'll get back to this later tonight if that's okay.
The title Gospel of Dead Souls actually came from Anna, one night when we were discussing something, she just got solemn and suddenly said, "Gospel of Dead Souls", and that was it, and we both knew it instantly.
Sorry it took me so long to respond but I somehow missed your questions until now.
Who is the "... actively claiming Magus status, right, now [...] one head of one lineage that rarely posts here, ..."?
The line in question is marked with the initials McM. I am having a hard time believing that posters here are so removed from stuff moving around in their own bqackyard. But, then, why should anyone be poking around in the supernal when their full attention is required in order to maintain their sanitized sanity in The Great below ?
if you can't tell us (yet) what Dead Souls means, can you at least reveal when you came up with the title - would it have been after I started asking about it (as I can't seem to find any reference to it as 'Gospel' before)?
I always thought it's a kind of bow to that famous AC/Leah incident:
"Hirsig and her older sister Alma were drawn to the study of the occult, and this interest led them in the spring of 1918 to pay a visit to Aleister Crowley, who was living at the time in the Manhattan neighborhood of Greenwich Village. Crowley and Hirsig felt an immediate and instinctive connection. Leah asked him to paint her as a "dead soul" and in fact Crowley painted several portraits of her."
Jamie J (as Jamie Barter is your signature in a blog about the O.T.O. on this site [...] using this letter J in your name optional? What does this letter J in your name stand for?) Barter.
I am surprised you are that curious about my minutiae well, but if you must... my account as plain 'jamie barter' was abruptly closed during the online "difficulties" affecting lots of 'talians around 2015/6. I had to open a new log-in, but couldn't use the same name. Now, have you ever heard of the Emglish actor Harry H. Corbett, well? He used to be in Steptoe as the "& Son" - but in order to get his Equity card he wasm't allowed to be the subject (object?) of any Confusion with the creator of the puppet Sooty and Sweep (& Soo) Show, whose name was also Harry Corbett and with whom he therefore couldn't get mixed up with, so to avoid this he just added on an extra "H". (When anybody asked him about what it stood for in later years, he liked to reply "Hennyfing") - so that's similar to what I've done here with the additional 'J' , well.
I hope it was all worth it (my explanation that is).. But now that I have your attention, and you clarified all about Mr Readdy's (re)presenting, you still haven't answered
O wise well, do you know when this term ['duplicityduplexity'] first originated in this [A.'.A.'. & O.T.O.] context?
Isn't Stan Robinson often seen at barbecues, bowling alley's or on the golf course with none other than Bob Dobbs?
I'm not sure about (Praise be to) Bob, but rumour has it old Stan was seen in such haunts in the company of Dude Lebowski, Walter, Jesus et all. Trying to lead them astray as usual, I imagine?!
Sorry it took me so long to respond but I somehow missed your questions until now.
No need to worry about that Al! Take as long as you like - absolutely no problemo.
Who is the "... actively claiming Magus status, right, now [...] one head of one lineage that rarely posts here, ..."?
@shiva: The line in question is marked with the initials McM.
Well, the McM must stand for (Grady Louis) McMurtry, whose lineage is now commanded by Jerry Cornelius who swore the 'Oath of the Abyss' to be a 8=3 way back when he was alive (i.e. in the early 80s). So i supose it must stand to reason (mustn't it) that he must have felt the urge to move on to 9=2 by now?
His A.'.A.'. branch always struck me as being very thorough, as did Phyllis Seckler's - most concentrated on doing the Work of the syllabus. Which is no bad thing at all.
Whereas the 'Motta' line - well that's not even strictly "legit" anyway, is it (just like what they claimed Shiva's old "clandestine" Solar Lodge to be - No evidence of any charters, advancement certificates, documents of succession and all that, er - shinola I believe is the expression now in vogue)?
If I guessed right do I get a prize?
if you can't tell us (yet) what Dead Souls means, can you at least reveal when you came up with the title - would it have been after I started asking about it (as I can't seem to find any reference to it as 'Gospel' before)?
Lutz: I always thought it's a kind of bow to that famous AC/Leah incident:
Yes indeed, that was where the phrase originated from. But I was asking what Al/Aliana thought Leah meant by it & offered half a dozen possible reasons why she mightnhave come up with such a singular expression, one which must have made an impression on old Crow.
Although there was no direct answer at the time it was followsed shortly after by an announcement that the book about Leah's 8=3 and her continuance with Thelema ws going to be called Gospel Of D.S., and so I was just querying if there might have been any causal connection. It's a very good title for the work I think, and can't imagine anything which would fit better.
N Joy