@shiva one last thing there...
we find Leah exhalted [sic] at Cefalu, then demoted from priestess to private secretary...
Not quite! She was not only a Scarlet Woman, but also a 8=3 M.'.T.'. (c.f. diaries), which is an amazing and rare accomplishment, especially in so little time.
Please don't ask me for page numbers and quotes, I'm in trouble as it is -- Aliana wants me off the computer while I'm in recovery, and she is one mean Irish girl!
Cheers!
Just a little bit down in the dumps today, or what?! Yours is a view of the situation in Sicily, of Crowley, and of Leah, that I just don't see.
As I remarked previously, my words were based on recollection of the diaries I read and info I have been able to find. I don't think I could be as "down in the dumps" as Leah at certain points of her unhappy affair with Crowley. It seemed to become absolutely miserable.
That being said, I am due for a re-read of her records.
I do find your focus and perspective to be interesting. You seem to have a very idealized picture of Leah as a great adept whose work is relevant to our world now-and in the future. I don't see this at all. But you and I are not at odds.
You wrote:
the really significant event which took place at Villa Santa Barbara, is actually common knowledge, but nobody has even noticed the import of it yet.
and then you comment
It's all right there in the open, but nobody has realized the significance of it at all.
Would you kindly elaborate?
I understand that your wife is writing a book and, when such is the case, we want to keep some things back until publication. But Shiva is correct...the promise of "Oh, it's coming with the book" can become (for some) an endless kicking the can down the road. YOU (and your wife), however, have NOT established such a (dis)reputation.
I submit all of this with interest in what you have to share.
Whether you give more detail (and I do stand to be educated here) or refrain, all is good and I do always wish you and yours well!
I'm completely at peace now, no matter what actually happens; and I can hardly wait for my next Great Adventure!
This is great to hear but I DO hope you stick around for a while yet on THIS adventure! 🙂
Would you kindly elaborate?
Perhaps you had not read further when you asked this question. He has nothing further to say. Not spitefully, but it's too complex and a book explaining the minutiae is intended by his wife who wants him off the borg and into recovery.
Perhaps the real significant event at the Abbey of Thelema, beyond the worldly value of bad publicity, concerns the Frank Bennett, Frater Prqogradior, and his revelations while on magical retirement undertaken there and relative to Liber Samekh!
Also I would note that Colin Wilson in his book The Occult, mentions the magical retreat resulting in the rehabilitation of a burnt out Hollywood actress, not named, but obviously Jane Wolfe, as being representative of the healthier side of Crowley syncretism, of course idealized in The Diary of a Drug Fiend. I do not believe that Wolfe was suffering from heroin addiction...
Jane Wolfe, as being representative of the healthier side of Crowley syncretism
Nobody at Cefalu suffered from Cretinism. You cite van interesting point. Everyone who visited seems to have a tale of unraveling (or death), but Jane hung out after Cefalu with AC in illness-ridden France; then she ended up back in Holy-Wood at The Grand Master of Agape Lodge ... and she is not noted for causing scandals.
Note: Russell & Bennett may also be considered to have left "intact," and there may be others, of course. Everybody didn't go mad for a greater or lesser tick of the clock,
The Diary of a Drug Fiend.
A wild book that, unfortunately, ends up proclaiming that if one merely finds "their" Will, then any physical addiction will simply disappear. Si8nce this does not happen in real-time medical practice, and did not happen in the case of AC, the core message in the text may be considered inspirational, but not practical.
The term used was syncretism, but humor is well accepted.
Regarding drug cures, well AC could never confess Anonymously, and of course Bill W did not share the secret sauce, LSD, as having an impact upon his sobriety, but perhaps the hell that can accompany such ingestion is often of the "life review" assessment type of hell where one can no longer hide as the filters have been broken...
RFKjr speaking of his addiction, inclusive of H, actually credited being able to go to an informal place, not a medical type facility, in Connecticut, in the country, a bunch of cabins, where people would come knowing that it was dedicated to "drying out"....apparently it was in the 12 Step tradition...
I do not think that Crowley's idealism of Diary of a Drug Fiend were off base. Colin Wilson in his chapter on Crowley in the book The Occult, mentions an brunt out actress to whom Crowley proscribed a month's retreat in an nature, with a tent and sleeping bag, and food delivered down a path everyday. to which in Wilson's description, the person came in contact with nothing but nature and themselves, to w their own self talk, to which meditation, magical practice, inclusive of a diary, and nature provided the means for in Wilson's term, her batteries being recharged and she came to herself, cured...Wilson I believe referred to the person in question as having burnt out from cocaine and alcohol abuse...
Wilson in his critique of Crowley mentions that Crowley knew how to recharge his batteries in such a way, and I believe mentions his Magical Retirement at Oesphus Island, but that Crowley would forget his own methods and had not really found himself.....to which getting wasted can be an excuse for trying to find oneself.
Good Day!
I do not think that Crowley's idealism of Diary of a Drug Fiend were off base.
Maybe. The methods described in Diary never worked for AC when he wanted to kick dope, and there is no record of them working for any other real-world human with a heroin habit.
burnt out from cocaine and alcohol abuse...
Alcohol can produce physical addiction, but it is mild. Cocaine does not do this- the suffering associated with quitting is a purely mental/emotional thing, not a severe and painful physical illness like that which occurs when kicking a heroin/morphine/opiate/opioid habit.
There just is no real comparison- cocaine and alcohol are "habit-forming" because they are fun, not because stopping makes you vomit and have diarrhea. No one who has used daily for a month or longer kicks heroin without considerable struggle and suffering.
the core message in the text may be considered inspirational, but not practical.
Yep.
Alcohol can produce physical addiction, but it is mild
Tell that to a bleeder....Also DT's can land one in the hospital.
Regarding heroin, Crowley's method was essentially cold turkey, there is a chapter or two in Drug Fiend where the protagonist couple goes through cold turkey....Also telling one to go up and live in a tent for a month, with meals left nearby, is a means of effectuating a cold turkey cure...Also in DoaDF the couple had a mentor, King Lamas. There is a pejorative story that Crowley went to visit Gurdjieff seeking help with his addictions and thus the need for a mentor or supervision. Often it is ex addicts who become the means of coaching others through the cold turkey cure.
Of course cold turkey can be dangerous depending on the narcotic cocktail sustaining the addict.
Even pot can be difficult to quit for some, particularly for the wake and bake crowd, though certainly of more of a psychological dependence upon a certain attendant feeling that a few days cold turkey and the jonesing for a joint dissipates to nothing...
I do not think that Crowley's idealism of Diary of a Drug Fiend were off base.
Ignant replies ... Maybe. The methods described in Diary never worked for AC when he wanted to kick dope, and there is no record of them working for any other real-world human with a heroin habit.
HG used the word "idealism." Correctly. The 6th ray ecstatic idealism may be found within parts of the 12-step re-orientation program. Ideally, one would have no need for any medical or spiritual substances if they were doing thou's Will. A problem arises in The Drug Fiend scenario. The participants are told to find their Will in order to kick their habits. AC, and his participants, had acquired the habit before enlightenment. In the book, they withdraw from use and discover their Will. An alternative viewing would see them meditate, discover their Will, then have no need no more ... no more. Any of these would be ideal.
In life, and in medicine, ideal notions are sometimes practical ... but mostly not.
I think it should be noted that in Crowley's idealistic tale, the protagonists finding their 'true will' turns into being a doorway back into bourgeois society... as Cyril, (was that his name?) becoming an engineer and his lady friend a 'good housewife'!
I think it should be noted that in Crowley's idealistic tale, the protagonists finding their 'true will' turns into being a doorway back into bourgeois society... as Cyril, (was that his name?) becoming an engineer and his lady friend a 'good housewife'!
I did not fail to notice this when I first read the book in 1968.
It should be further noted and revealed that True Will falls into a dualistic interpretation ... as a thing and as a state.
As a thing, you have cited two fine examples: Engineer and Helpmate. Other things might include prophet, priestess, teacher, guru, policeman, lawyer ... etc on down the list of things one can do or become. At one point, my specific mission, which I accepted, was to introduce metaphysical subjects into the gov-dominated educational accreditation system. I claim success in this endeavor. Please note that my accomplishment was not theoretical metaphysics (what a frag ... like the work ... <haha>), but practical. That is, these courses, that became "accredited" by the agents of the god gov, included how to in auras, energetic healing, astral projection, meditation, etc, and they led to licensure within the medical paradigm. I run this out, not because I am smart, but to demonstrate Will as a (definable) thing.
Of course, such things may tend to change over time. So they are not really Will itself, but they are an expression of Will.
The true definition of Will (or Intuition, or Non-attachment, or Being Silly) depends on the state that anyone is in, in any given moment. Will, itself, as a state, means one is actively applying (action is implied) the Atmic (atomic) zap of Chokmah in order to induce change ... in consciousness, not in external objects (those are handled at Geburah).
So, yes, Crowley introduced examples of Will as things in his Fiend book. This is where one starts, often in adolescence, wondering What will I do? What will I be ? Some folks already have their GPS set on a goal. They don't wonder - they seem to know what kind of thing they will be.
I do find your focus and perspective to be interesting. You seem to have a very idealized picture of Leah as a great adept whose work is relevant to our world now-and in the future. I don't see this at all. But you and I are not at odds.
Even in the diaries, you can see her intelligence, optimism, and positivity! There's plenty of negativity toward Crowley, of course, but tempered with a lot of brilliant ideas to counter his mistakes, too. For instance, she criticizes his religious tendencies, saying that it's wrong of him to always fall back on "the gods", e.g. saying "It is the will of the gods": but her perspective was, there are no gods, for we, the Thelemites, are the gods!
How can it be said that she was merely a duped fool, when we get stuff such as this out of her? There was - and is - more to her than what she is getting credit for here!
Would you kindly elaborate?
I understand that your wife is writing a book and, when such is the case, we want to keep some things back until publication. But Shiva is correct...the promise of "Oh, it's coming with the book" can become (for some) an endless kicking the can down the road. YOU (and your wife), however, have NOT established such a (dis)reputation.
I submit all of this with interest in what you have to share.
Whether you give more detail (and I do stand to be educated here) or refrain, all is good and I do always wish you and yours well!
Aliana and I had a long talk last night. She wants us to get away from this for a bit, in order to enjoy life a little for now. But there might not be much more "now". And I really feel that it is important to get this done and out there.
Well, this subject is centered on Leah Hirsig, and it is the reason I was compelled for so many years, obsessively drawn to her, seeking everywhere to find information about her. Then it led to the discovery of her death date.
Yes, it was Aliana and I who first found out about this - not actually at first, but in visions, it was revealed to be 1975. It wasn't long thereafter that Aliana herself got in touch with a member of the Hirsig family, and was told the actual date. This was back in 2003, at which point we were first to reveal it online.
Anyway, last night we decided that it is very important that we do this. But I can't do it anymore, for health reasons; so she has agreed to do all the work. The matter in question involves Aleister Crowley, Leah Hirsig, and the two dead babies, Anne Leah and the aborted one.
That's all I can say about it. But it is earth-shattering stuff; and it is, without doubt, both inspirational and illuminating.
I submit all of this with interest in what you have to share.
Whether you give more detail (and I do stand to be educated here) or refrain, all is good and I do always wish you and yours well!
Thank you for your interest! I really can't say more, or it would give it away. Suffice to say that it is worth waiting for. According to the doctor, I have to rest, so Aliana has to do it all now. She's a better writer than I am, not that I'm all that great, ha ha!
Thanks so much for your well-wishes! They are much appreciated. I don't have many friends left, but I hope I can count you among them! You're very kind.
As for some others: if you think all that Aleister Crowley was about was degradation and depravity, you've got it all wrong! He was about worship through love! Now I can't be bothered arguing about this - "argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!"
Let me finish by saying that love is the whole way, and the foundation of all will!
Agape,
777
Aleisterion
if you think all that Aleister Crowley was about was degradation and depravity, you've got it all wrong! He was about worship through love!
Oops! I meant to write: He was about love through worship.
It really is all about love, upon which all will is founded. The "degradations" or "perversions" (so-called) are a form of worship of the Beauteous One.
Love,
777
Please ignore my last few posts...
Too late!
I apologize
I don't think you have anything to apologize for. We're having a nice chat about an interesting topic with some differing viewpoints. I appreciate what you've shared and will be interested in seeing how this is developed and manifests.
But don't stress and look after yourself! 🙂
@kidneyhawk I didn't mean that talk of the Beauteous One and of worship to come across as religious, so I'm sorry for that. God, of course, is reflected in all of our loved ones.
The rest of the stuff I wrote was accurate. But yeah, I have to get away from the net for a bit as I'm really woozy and weak.
I didn't mean that talk of the Beauteous One and of worship to come across as religious
Well, we DO come from a school which declared its goal to be the "Aim of Religion." And I fully appreciate and (think I ) get your poetic point. Again, no apologies!
God, of course, is reflected in all of our loved ones.
Agree with you.
I'm really woozy and weak
Rest up and rejoin us when you can here at the "cyber-pub" called Lashtal!
93, Aleisterion!
I apologize.
Someone once said, 'never apologize; never explain'. And while I never particularly go along with anyone absolutising along with never, there may be some relevance here. And I also hope you have success in finding the appropriate Medicine for you (in the vitriolic sense).
She was not only a Scarlet Woman, but also a 8=3 M.'.T.'. (c.f. diaries), which is an amazing and rare accomplishment, especially in so little time.
Part of me would really like this to be true, but as some have remarked there (so far) appears to be no real evidence upholding it, and so it is just (one or two, or a few) people's beliefs. Rather like with Elron maybe. Or with Harry Potter. Or dear old RTC. Or (dare I even utter it) Uncle Ken.
the Beauteous One
Or is she also not/= None (as in, 'breathed the light, faint + faery')
Norma N Joy Conquest
Someone once said, 'never apologize; never explain'. And while I never particularly go along with anyone absolutising along with never, there may be some relevance here.
The relevance involves Where have you been ? - What with all the tranquilizers we have taken to avoid breakdown from constant worry. We, or at least I. are/am pleased to see that you survived. Some didn't, you know. No need to Apollo-gize ... you are not never under any obligation to account for yourself or you actions, here, unless they involve claiming the grade of Magus or solving some puzzle in a sacred Class A doc.
We, or at least I. are/am pleased to see that you survived.
I am joining Shiva herein, to make it official that 100% of the LAShTAL Elderly American Druggie Cabal is very pleased to see you, Norma/@jamiejbarter, once again manifest here in electro-aetheric form.
You have been missed, and indeed worried about, and i am glad to see that you are unscathed, or at least minimally scathed, after All That.
You have been missed, and indeed worried about, and i am glad to see that you are unscathed, or at least minimally scathed, after All That.
Ditto from myself! In sundry cases, we (or some of us) wouldn't know if someone dropped off due to distraction, dismay or demise-and I had also hoped it was not the latter with regards to you. Nice to see you back in action!
B.: "Rather like with Elron maybe."
Did someone mention a derogatory nick name for L. [Lafayette] Ron Hubbard?
Welcome back my "boy"! Well, how are you getting on today "young man"?
I hope you have kept up your superb skills at nitpicking.
A little something you can expect, is detailed information demonstrating that dear old Uncle Al's nonsense use of ancient Egpytian gods in his little The Book of the Law, the core text of his self-invented religion Thelema, reflects his incompetent authorship of this book, due to his profound ignorance about ancient Egypt, and not an extraordinary intelligence, or a higher intelligence, being at work.
old Uncle Al's nonsense use of ancient Egpytian gods in his little The Book of the Law, the core text of his self-invented religion Thelema, reflects his incompetent authorship of this book, due to his profound ignorance about ancient Egypt, and not an extraordinary intelligence, or a higher intelligence, being at work
Er...was this something Jamie was contesting?
Er...was this something Jamie was contesting?
Not that I could see. It seems wellread is expressing dissatisfaction with the prophet. I chimed in with significant interrogatories to show him that we are aware of the inconsistencies ... but that we (mostly) don't care, because we've done the work to the point where we can accept frailties in the (any) human vehicle.
Of course, we bring these inconstants up for discussion as we need the true-blue story, as best we can decode it, so that nobody goes around thinking he could walk on water or climb mountains.
Shiva:"It seems wellread is expressing dissatisfaction with the prophet."
I am rather expressing that the very content itself and the way it is presented within The Book of the Law, reflects the self-appointed prophet Aleister Crowley's incompetent authorship and profound ignorance about ancient Egypt, and does not reflect the same prophet's claim that said content was dictated to him from an extraordinary intelligence, or from a higher intelligence.
But more about this in another thread, to be instigated by me.
does not reflect the same prophet's claim that said content was dictated to him from an extraordinary intelligence
Oh, if one reads the story, it is "extraordinary" by any definition, The term he used was praeterhuman, which is subject to differing opinions.
or from a higher intelligence.
This would be possible, nay, probable, if we were using the term higher self, of which there is one as it is included in the brain. It is sometimes hard to get in touch with, but if you go to Cairo, take peyote, have sex, it might manifest as another person or entity (they used to see angels).
This brings us to one of the larger of the AC paradoxae. He states, quite clearly (in Magick 4 - Part III) that the whole show is taking place within the compartments of one's being (some conscious, some sub- or un-), but that it is more convenient to externalize it as independent beings, because (for one thing), it is easier to deal with external demons than thos infernal internals. Quote highly paraphrased by me, but the gist of the aphorism is clear enough.
Then, to complete the other portion of the paradox, he says that There are praeterhuman entities and our only hope is to get in touch with them. Included in, and regularly introduced with no waving throughout a lifetime, these praterhumans is Aiwass, described (once) as a Sumerian demon-god, which means Perdurabo might have been in touch with The Anunnaki, and could cause one (me. for example) tp pause and wonder, "Hmmm - these Sumer gods have a rather low reputation when it comes to benefiting humanity. And he used the term "demon-god," so there's no mistaking that he meant The Anuki (alternative short spelling), and not the older natural gods like the Sun, Moon, Earth.
Oh, yeah, there's a lot to consider once one reads (for example) The Equinox of the Gods with a copy of the AL holograph. and then starts looking deeper, with either a suspicious, or an inquisitive, mind. Virtually, if not exactly, all members here are familiar with the exoteric and the esoteric versions of The Cairo Reception and, as I have recommended, it is my intention to think (and now type) Uh-huh. So what? I go out of my way to recommend Class D (for drag), and to forego absorbing the tales, the philosophy, any dogma, and the flat-out 3D persona of the prophet.
Oh, please, read the tales, philo, and grasp the persona, but then - when something/anything - seems bizarre, untrue, conflicting, or shocking, put 'em to the test. Examples of scientific testing by the people who know how to do it with no compassion (alongside screams from raving maniacs) can be found here - no link, the new thread by wellbred will soon be added to the complete examination of all facets of Aleister Crowley that has already been completed in a conglomerate of assorted threads. A fabric has been manufactured from said threads.
Note: My statement is holographically intended, but nothing is complete, even if it is complete. Unless it's perfection has allowed it to pass into a higher dimension or sephira, while the perfected vehicle begins to crumble.
I will look forward to seeing, for example, comparisons of what AC though about ancient Egypt with examples of the actuality of said time/space coordinate.
the self-appointed prophet Aleister Crowley's incompetent authorship and profound ignorance about ancient Egypt
I doubt that Crowley had any real interest in ancient Egypt, and I suspect that he had none at all in staying abreast of academic research.
"Incompetent authorship . . . profound ignorance". . . heady stuff. I look forward to your thread.
"Incompetent authorship . . . profound ignorance". . . heady stuff. I look forward to your thread.
As announced by myself, wellread is exhibiting displeasure with the prophet. Other dissidents turn their wrath on Jesus. Not many attack Zoroaster, Lao, Tahuti, or Muhammad (which can result in head-chopping).
Prophet-bashing, along with Tong-bashing, or other ryu (styles) of bashing have their place, and this is it, but only if established the olden Foundation of Equilibrium ("Keep it Balanced"). The present case, now in the Announcement stage of thread-genesis ... And he (the Elohim) separated the topic from the waters, the earth, and the void, saying Let there be a Thread Topic !
After it gets rolling, thus clearing this thread for return to Leah, I am noting that wellbred is exhibiting the signs of having an agenda, and that his motivation seems connected to the destroyer with winged antagonism. In street lingo, this means all judges, juries, bailiffs, recorders, audiences, and posting attorneys are advised to keep their eye(s) on The Equilibrium of the Foundation before discharging firearms, voting for the death penalty, crafting barbed arrows, or just innocent posting of anything at all.
Readers with Extended Sensory Perception may notice that, after a semi-lengthy absence, wellread has returned ... using a slightly different language pattern. That is, his previous pattern involved multiple references to the exact book, page, and lin, with certain subliminal hesitances barely noticeable. But, now, he appears on stage with a somewhat different dialect, almost as though he were speaking right out of central USA. I am concerned that, during his semi-absence, his compuer or conscious was taken over by some AI connection. I will keep this in mind as we venture into The Great Unknown, and maybe you (anyone) will do the same.
the very content itself and the way it is presented within The Book of the Law, reflects the self-appointed prophet Aleister Crowley's incompetent authorship and profound ignorance about ancient Egypt, and does not reflect the same prophet's claim that said content was dictated to him from an extraordinary intelligence, or from a higher intelligence.
You're missing one all-important caveat in your approach of the subject: the very last verse: "The Book of the Law is Written and Concealed".
I.e., The entire book is veiled.
(Not that this has anything to do with the Scarlet Woman, aka 8=3 31-666-31, Alostrael, "The Ape of Tahuti", Leah Hirsig.)
I am rather expressing that the very content itself and the way it is presented within The Book of the Law, reflects the self-appointed prophet Aleister Crowley's incompetent authorship and profound ignorance about ancient Egypt, and does not reflect the same prophet's claim that said content was dictated to him from an extraordinary intelligence, or from a higher intelligence.
But more about this in another thread, to be instigated by me.
Dwtw
I can hardly wait for the trolling-fest that will be exhibited by you in such a thread. My only contribution will be to say here preemptively that, yes, AC didn't write down exactly what he supposedly was told, he didn't follow all the instructions he was given, and he was not an Egyptologist. All of these things are known facts. None of them disprove the provenance of the Book. Plus, there are at least foul levels of understanding the text, and the fact that it is both "Written and Concealed". So troll away about that which you do not understand.
Meanwhile per the actual topic, I will point out that Alostrael's magical name spelled in Hebrew as
אל–יסתר–אל
and exhibited as 31-666-31, sums to 728, and in ternary math, this is the number 222222, or the hexagram of the Pure Yin. A very appropriate figure for the Scarlet Woman. It is said that "he is ever a sun, and she a moon", and in the TQ, the hexagram of 728 is the doubled trigram of 222, which is attributed to the Moon. So then 728 = Moon/Moon
This hexagram is the second figure of the I Ching, known by many names, including the Receptive.
Litllwtw
O.L.
... yes, AC didn't write down exactly what he supposedly was told, he didn't follow all the instructions he was given, and he was not an Egyptologist.
I nod my noggin in concert.
,,, there are at least foul levels of understanding the text
Exactly four are listed, in order, in the text itself.
But there is a fifth, hidden in the Comment.
This hexagram is the second figure of the I Ching
As I go along writing a book, any book, in this case 9D, it is inconvenient for me to type some page or pages of text ... and then get up the next morning to see that someone is trying to steal my show.
That's a numerous allegory for Great Minds Think Alike. The basic problem for any minds, great or small, is that they are constantly overthinking. They come up with things to represent other things that are intangible. In
the present case, the rise and downfall of Alostrael is sitting right there in the I Ching, and you are invited to peruse the plot, here ...
Note that the text is being written in reference to The Anunnaki and other forms of The New World Order, which are inconsistent with AL and 9D. It was not written with The Scarlet W in mind, but here we are.
aleisterion: You're missing one all-important caveat in your approach of the subject: the very last verse: "The Book of the Law is Written and Concealed".
I.e., The entire book is veiled.
threefold31: "... it [AC's The Book of the Law] is both "Written and Concealed".
You, aleisterion and you threefold31, both refer to my future thread on incompetent authorship, and profound ignorance about ancient Egypt, concerning Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, by stating that said book is "Written and Concealed".
And earlier in this thread Shiva has claimed that I am "... exhibiting displeasure with the prophet."
If this can comfort any, I will just mention that irrespective of that future thread, the following can still remain to be the case:
"... even had Crowley prepared all the keys himself, and 'play acted' the rest of his life, the extraordinary reach of the hidden meanings of the Book of the Law, its psychological depth, the almost unbelievable wealth of its insight, would be sufficient evidence of the exceptional quality of the Mind who wrote it. Were we to believe that it was the “scribe and prophet” himself the author, this would just be added justification for obeying him. For surely this would have been a man much more worthy of obedience than Jesus, Buddha, or Karl Marx.
And yet, what is the injunction given by this man to each who would obey him? “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.” "
( Source: The Commentaries of AL Chapter III Being the core of the Equinox Vol. V no. 1 by [Marcelo Ramos] Motta - - - The Commentaries of AL Chapter III - Centres of Pestilence - Hermetic Library )
You can all respond to my said future thread when it is issued, and I am sorry about this derailment of this thread, and ask for others posting in it, not to derail it further.
Please stick to the actual topic of this thread.
Thank you for all the above various kind greetings and good wishes, and also to the many dozens more which were to be coming I expect from those who were just on the cusp of sending me them.
Someone once said, 'never apologize; never explain'. And while I never particularly go along with anyone absolutising along with never, there may be some relevance here.
The relevance involves Where have you been ?
The original reference was to aleisterion, but I agree it could apply to me also here. Another relevant saying would be 'least said, soonest mended', not that anything is needing mending. Poetically put I could say I have been spending some time in Universe B or FFS (or the one next door or a few sliding doors further down), or in reverse that I have come to "this" one which has the world a bit crazier than was previously, but that probably wouldn't help and may confuse this issue until some occasion when I may be able to articulate it more appropriately.
you survived. Some didn't, you know.
My beloved partner (she rather disfavoured that word herself, but as we were never married it fits better than others) of almost two decades herself died suddenly and prematurely, being only three week older than myself. She was never really the same after her second jab of the vaccine mRNA-based genetically modifying nanotechnology, which of course raises lots of "wtf" type of questions which aside from any skyborne 'fresh fever' considerations are probably not within the direct purview of this Society let alone this thread and the spirit if not the actual letter of the Gridlines, I mean of course the Guidelines. "So it goes."
B.: "Rather like with Elron maybe."
Did someone mention a derogatory nick name for L. [Lafayette] Ron Hubbard?
I deduce you mean me here, although I'm rather wondering who is "B"? Please explain, as you usually do with your typos. Your interpretation is 'derogatory' though whereas mine is more 'playful'. Are you a fanboy of Elron yourself then? Or are you cynical, as with A.C. (himself) ?
Welcome back my "boy"! Well, how are you getting on today "young man"?
I don't know if you know how old I am but if you are familiar with The Beatles' Sergeant Pepper I expect you might deduce my age from that reference. It is so long since I have been called a "young man" I can only take it as a compliment under the circumstances, which I'm sure was your intention all along anyway.
I hope you have kept up your superb skills at nitpicking.
If you meant to put there, my superb skills relating to the customary diligent and forensic scrutinisation of the accuracy of all the available & relevant data, then my answer to that then is: affirmative, captain <as Leonard Nimoy might put it>.
A little something you can expect, is detailed information demonstrating
Er...was this something Jamie was contesting?
Er... not knowingly so! (What have I done to deserve this bounty out of the blue, dude?! I have never come across as a "fundamentalist" Thelemite and in fact am rather agnostic about the whole Reception story & its implications as it happens I watched "The Big Lebowski" again last night which might account for the dude reference though I rather dislike the term norma-lly)
wellread has returned ... using a slightly different language pattern.
Yes, I have noticed this as well... Well's second language English has much improved, extraordinarily so in fact in that he seems to have also acquired a rather alarming new and more combative persona to replace the more comfortable and librarianish one of old. I do hope we are all going to get along and be friends (or at least friendly) together, or have you (well) now come back to 'kick shit'? I am looking forward to reading your thread so we that we can all tear it apart and pick it to pieces (as I'm sure you will readily appreciate in view of your own learned bookishness and lines of enquiry from before).
[A.C.'s] profound ignorance about ancient Egypt [etc]
Isn't this a little dated? (pun semi-intentional - as in the past it has also been discussed as a topic in several threads, to the effect that A.C. never claimed his Ægyptology to be historically æccurate.
But more about this in another thread, to be instigated by me.
The batingness of my breath bears no bounds! And I look forward to being able to reflect in the future on how coruscatingly charming and couth your English style might have become and evolved by then, as of course befitting the nobility of the second part of your own avatar name.
Anticipatingly yours
N Joy
... not to derail it further. Please stick to the actual topic of this thread.
Derailment will cease the moment you quit posting here and open the new thread, instead of using RTC marketing techniques that pertain to the future.
Returning to the topic of the Primal Yin Aspect (PYA = 91) of the Thelemic Paradigm ...
.
The thread specifically refers to one of a long line of Scarlet Woman vehicles who were overshadowed, inhabited, or otherwise influenced by the meme, if that is the correct term, of Babalon, Mother Superior and Holy Ghost of the consort of The Great Beast, the antagonist of Jesus Christ, mentioned toward the end of the Judeo-Christian Book.
In this case, she certain deserves elevation above the line as she held the role during the critical Chokmah phase, which can be a difficult time.
According to the inputs, we have (as is normal and customary) two points of view how being held up for inspection. At their extremes they sum up as...
1. Receptive vehicle, elevated by the CC (Crowley Current) to channel, in vivo, the companion of said Beast.
2. Alostrael, 8=3. Nothing needs to be added.
We could have a vote, but that would only be a composite opinion, not a fact. As a matter of fact, "facts" do not apply to 8=3s ... perhaps I should call in Loose 9=3 as a subject matter witness. The Master's name has been purposely mis-spelled so as to confuse the profane ... and you know how when you use someone's real, evocative name, they tend to show up and disturb whatever equilibrium is present.
... and also to the many dozens more which were to be coming I expect from those who were just on the cusp of sending me them.
I hestitate to be the mortician, but I will assume the form of anubis to tell you ...
Alas ! Do not be adjusted to the previous era. The plague came and went, and dozens are MIA. If you were to place your two hands (correct?) in front of your face and count the fingers (ten presumed), you could transpose that figure to the number of active LAShTAL poster, you would be roughly correct, but probably high. No Karma. No Blame.
'least said, soonest mended'
LSSM. Understood. Inquiry camncelled.
a bit crazier than was previously
It is a 5th generation war, also knopwn as a PsyOp, and nothing is to be believed.
after her second jab
Thank you for supplying that info. Under the present circumstances, it is best to stick to the topic and not reference politics or to even think about stating "medical disinformation." The Borg is monitoring everything you know (see ChatGPT and AL thread). The Guidelines have evolved a bit and some have recetly had their vaults locked as they insisted on exercising their second amendment rights ... in violation of The Guidelines.
Yes, I have noticed this as well... Well's second language English has much improved, extraordinarily so in fact in that he seems to have also acquired a rather alarming new and more combative persona to replace the more comfortable and librarianish one of old.
Thank you for your confirmation, which hits all the variances.
It should be noted that the old (off-topic, derailing) problem is currently being viewed more closely and enforced by gentle reminder, then stern warning, then swift termination. This thread, in particular, has been subject to several terrorist attacks, but has managed to remain on the rails.
Now, back to Leah Hirsig.
I can tell you with all sincerety that I am deeply sorry about your loss, you not so young, Jamie J Barter [and/or] Norma N Joy Conquest. And I hope you are on the mend.
No, I am not a fanboy of LRH (= Lafayette Ron Hubbard, of Scientology infamy). Good to hear that you have kept your said superb skills.
You ask me if Aleister Crowley's profound ignorance about ancient Egypt is not a little dated?, "... as in the past it has also been discussed as a topic in several threads ...", as you state.
No, not with respect to how very profound indeed this ignorance actually was.
A very profound ignorance indeed, made even more noticeable, by "to go with the late Crowley "goblins and spacemen" phase" ( – an expression used by our dear fellow Ignant666 in another thread – ) a phase when Crowley understood his The Book of the Law as given to him by "the forces ruling this earth at present", via "an Intelligence possessed of power and knowledge absolutely beyond human experience; [...] [an] Intelligence praeterhuman and articulate, purposefully interfering in the philosophy, religion, ethics, economics and politics of the Planet."
But more about this in another thread, to be instigated by me in the future, and I will from now on indulge no more questions about that thread.
And, no Sir, I am not "now come back to 'kick shit'", as in "kick the shit out of somebody", that is, slang language for hurting someone very badly by kicking them many times.
But that's quite allright, my dear fellow, no trouble at all.
Can I do anything more for you Sir?
Have you anything you want to provide with respect to the actual topic of this thread?
Jamie-
Some curious and interesting derailments are happening here, I think. I would like to join wellread in extending my own heartfelt condolences for your loss. "Heartfelt condolences" sounds hollow and stupid, of course. I can't imagine what you've gone through and go through still. And I don't care what the Book of the Law has to say about sorrow and compassion. No one gets to prescribe how another ought feel or be.
I am truly sorry and wish I had better words.
It IS good to read YOUR words and wit-and I look forward to future exchange, be that high fives or swords throwing up sparks.
Wellread-
ARE you using "A.I." with your new posts?
And, no Sir, I am not "now come back to 'kick shit'", as in "kick the shit out of somebody", that is, slang language for hurting someone very badly by kicking them many times.
But that's quite allright, my dear fellow, no trouble at all.
Can I do anything more for you Sir?
I mean...seriously. THAT is totally bot talk.
And no matter HOW badly you think AL was written (and Crowley would agree that certain parts are so grammatically abysmal that they PROVE he, the great and accomplished wordsmith, could NOT have been the Author), a sentence like
And, no Sir, I am not "now come back to 'kick shit'", as in "kick the shit out of somebody", that is, slang language for hurting someone very badly by kicking them many times.
is worse than any one line in that tiny tome.
If you carefully wrote it yourself, then Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto.
Threefold-
I agree with hadgigegenraum that there is a poetic beauty in your qabalistic analysis and one which not only reflects but bolsters the idealism of Aleisterion's vision. For the record, I do not feel that the best or only assessment of such matters is to be had through the fragments of historical or "factual" knowledge we can scrape together. Likewise, we don't want to skew our view of such plain facts by imposing an idealistic vision. Our picture of "what is" becomes an exercise in not confusing the planes. There are refined realms in trans-temporal zones where ALL of Crowley's most casual associates have become wonderful figures expressing Godhead. But it isn't the particular spacetime historical record we all make appeal to as mutual members of the AC Society.
It's a nuanced matter. AC wasn't bound to such appeals. The accusations of wellread testify to this. He wasn't a "serious Egyptologist." He "got stuff wrong." But he bent it all into the poetic flow of his grand initiatic vision.
"Profound ignorance" or ingenious creative appropriation?
I can tell you with all sincerety [sic] that [...]
I appreciate the sentiment and thank you but can only add, or echo, again: LSSM. And to philosophically repeat "So It Goes".
But more about this in another thread, to be instigated by me in the future,
But hopefully not too far in the distant future! (As the bishop said to the actress, Is there any chance of a date?)
and I will from now on indulge no more questions about that thread.
You seem to have acquired a very commanding and no-nonsense sort of a tone! (Any idea where from? Have you been taking some Self-Assertiveness courses, for example?)
And, no Sir, I am not "now come back to 'kick shit'", as in "kick the shit out of somebody", that is, slang language for hurting someone very badly by kicking them many times.
Have no fear, there's no danger of any of that rough stuff, as this is a cybernetic forum anyway! My reference was strictly metaphorical, rather than physical: perhaps even metaphysical.
But that's quite allright, my dear fellow, no trouble at all.
Can I do anything more for you Sir?
Congratulations! You've got me quite foxed at the moment as to whether this is actually passive-aggression taking the piss and cleverly hiding behind a front of a confused foreigner doing his best to struggle along with conversing in idiomatic English, or, well, Well: the genuine article. In the second sentence, you uncannily even remind me of an enquiring, solicitous barber from them [g]olden days of yore!
Have you anything you want to provide with respect to the actual topic of this thread?
Yes, Sir, I indeed have! Or rather, I did have something I was going to reply to aleisterion from earlier on, but I think he might have gone silent for the moment. I also have a reply I was going to give to kidneyhawk, but it's only a little one by comparison I'm afraid. (Will you let me off?)
Here we go, then. Kidneyhawk said:
"Ipsissimus" is, of course, the big ultra-crown AC wants to wear. But it belongs to no one. As Kenneth Grant would say...there is no one it could belong to.
and I was going to remark back:
"But NEMO [=no-one] birthed at Binah, grew into Chokmah and then at the end (stroke Beginning) belonged to/with Kether..."
I hope it was worth it?! In my defence I could offer (with a rather theatrical sigh) that every little seems to count, these days.
I meant to reply to Fr. Shiva as well, but as it's getting late and us doddery old folks need our shut-eye, so until later then...
N Joy
I hope it was worth it?!
"Did you have a good world when you died? Enough to base a movie on??"
-Jim Morrison
"If life's a movie, the BOOK is better..."
-Adam Gates
In my defence I could offer (with a rather theatrical sigh) that every little seems to count, these days.
"Everything that lives is Holy."
-William Blake
(or "Thine Uncle" William O'Neil-as cited in Liber Aleph)
Yes, everything counts when there is a "World in a Grain of Sand, Heaven in a Wild Flower, Infinity in the Palm of your hand...
...and Eternity in an Hour."
No, not with respect to how very profound indeed this ignorance actually was.
A very profound ignorance indeed,
Kind sir - you have asked us to take this inserted sub-topic to your new thread, which is still Waiteing. How much preparation does it take ? If you're preparing a profoundly proof-filled (with examples) of AC igoramousness, or is is Ignant?, you will be preaching to the choir.
But, really, to ask for removal to a safe haven to avoid d'railment, and not provide said haven, yet continue the d'rail here, is a psychology study of its own.
Now, back to S.W. Leah Hirsig, Supernal Consort.
But more about this in another thread, to be instigated by me in the future, and I will from now on indulge no more questions about that thread.
That's the Spirit !
ARE you using "A.I." with your new posts?
Eek !
Thud.
(Recover consciousness)
Uh-oh ?
Why I noticed something, but never considered this approach. I wonder what The Guidelines say, or will say, if anything ?
Eek !
(Any idea where from? ...)
The Citadel of Geburah, of course.
Kidneyhawk: [...] And no matter HOW badly you think AL was written [etc. etc.] [...] Our picture of "what is" becomes an exercise in not confusing the planes. [...]
The profound ignorance and incompetent authorship – to be covered by me in a future thread – concerning Aleister Crowley's The book of the Law, does not pertain to this book's style of language, as in grammatical style. It goes far deeper than that.
Does said profound ignorance and incompetent authorship pertain to confusing the planes[*](, as understood by Dion Fortune)? More on this when that future thread has been issued.
( "Her [= Dion Fortune's] [...] opinion was that talk of Mathers’ and Leadbeater’s physical meetings with the Masters was ‘not only folly, but fraud, in confusing the planes[*], and representing that which was experienced subjectively as having happened in the world of matter.’"
( Source: Page 299, footnote 139, Dion Fortune and her Inner Plane Contacts: Intermediaries in the Western Esoteric Tradition Volume 1 of 2[.] Submitted by John Selby to the University of Exeter as a thesis for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Theology. June 2008 - - - https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10036/41936/SelbyJ.pdf?sequence=1 ) )
I am sorry to have mentioned my above just refered to future thread, in this thread, as it was not my intention to derail it.
When I first mentioned my future thread, in this thread, starting with the words "A little something you can expect ..." ( Source: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/127138/ ), it was just intended to provide something to look forward to, for our dear fellow Jamie J Barter [and/or] Norma N Joy Conquest, at the latter's recent return to this site, after a long absence. No good deed goes unpunished, I guess.
A hypothetical question from me, with respect to the actual topic of this thread:
This is stated within Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, Chapter 1, verse 15.:
"Now ye shall know that the chosen priest & apostle of infinite space is the prince-priest the Beast; and in his woman called the Scarlet Woman is all power given. They shall gather my children into their fold: they shall bring the glory of the stars into the hearts of men."
If Aleister Crowley had died when she was the Scarlet Woman, would that have left Leah Hirsig in a position to become the main exponent of his Thelema?
More on this when that future thread has been issued.
Would you please start this "future thread" already, and shut up about it here?
Apologies in advance for the lack of any references to La Lady Leah hyah:
The plague came and went,
I'm not so sure it completely "went" yet, as new & variable varieties are (the media informs us) like a bunch of Blue Meanies sighted overhead and just hanging around the corner winter. Plus, we are meant to be concerned, nay petrified, about so-called climate change, digital currency, transgenderism, (im)migration, overpopulation, the eukraine, food shortages (but for bugs), chemtrails, aliens/clones/ shapeshifters/ ncp's... This list is not exhaustive (but may be exhausting to contemplate). But I think I know what you mean.
and dozens are MIA.
I didn't realise the numbers were quite so high, if you're being literal.
you know how when you use someone's real, evocative name, they tend to show up
Are you still in contact with Azid*nis, to name one? I ask because I noticed before he was evoked to appearance twice, briefly made one or two posts, then quickly disappeared again as if in a puffersmoke. So I am hesitant to invoke the holy law of 3 and purposely mis-spelled his name (by leaving a vowel out) in case it happens again & he doesn't stick around (again). He used to post more regularly and often than anybody... a veritable Champeen and Legend in the making!?! (or, ?!?)
Another person I'm wondering about is that artist guy called ObscurusPainter? (I forget his exact avatar; getting old and all that) whose posts I always used to particularly enjoy.
a PsyOp, and nothing is to be believed.
I have been disbelieving (as in, not investing in any belief) for years but never realised until recently just how applicable it is to the physical plane on the Kingdom. For example, the BBC used to be a venerated and trusted news organization, but it seems they have been peddling lies ever since the War (=World 2). Which was when they first got their reputation for integrity and truthfulness - and even that's doubtful now! Nothing is sacred indeed.
Under the present circumstances, it is best to stick to the topic and not reference politics
Yes, I noticed Lashtal's apparent embargo on that subject. Therefore it's very tempting to what I call the rebel (or "fuck you") response in people to start discussing just that... but what about if members actually want to discuss the temptation of politics itself (perhaps as in Pasi)?
or to even think about stating "medical disinformation."
For my part, no information was relayed that was not anything but accurate --- no Dis, or Mis, or Mal, or whatever in sight. But I think I know what you mean (again).
The Borg is monitoring everything you know
I think we would already have been tracked and monitored by now, rather than worrying it's gonna happen! And I assume some action would already have been taken by "them", so that "they" must think we're not sufficiently of importance and have insufficient (paltry) numbers by their standards to merit attention. I mean, how many people in the whole wide world web are going to take any notice of that terrible (gasp) A.C. Society? They practically think we're debble worshippers [=devotees of ole Stan) already!
N Joy
The profound ignorance and incompetent authorship – to be covered by me in a future thread –
Good grief, man who cannot abide by his word. You said you would STOP and asked others to STOP. "Future thread" my Rumpelstiltskin. Be here Now or Get off the Pot ... but please do not continue the RTC style of future marketing. Do it or Shut it. Thanks,
I am sorry to have mentioned my above just refered to future thread, in this thread, as it was not my intention to derail it.
No sweat. You started out with just a simple off-topic barb aimed at the sinister and deceitful Aleister - while hinting at more. Derailment is healed by putting the wheels back on the track, which is accomplished by STOP pushing the wheels further off the track. I have dismissed your future thread as "wishful thinking out loud," and will be delighted if it appears.
it was just intended to provide something to look forward to
Um, Be Here Now is not a Thelemic hallmark phrase. We, the patient audience, now get to look forward to RTC's non-existing proof plus WRWB's "deeper" character assassination of the vehicle of the prognosticator.
No good deed goes unpunished, I guess.
Getting off track, and then losing control, is not a "good deed." It is a violation of The Sacred Guiding Lines.
If Aleister Crowley had died when she was the Scarlet Woman,
Hypothetical guessing if interrogatory. IF is wool-gathering on a plane that is not consistent with the facts of what did happen.
Would you please start this "future thread" already, and shut up about it here?
Yes. But it takes time to train the AI do-dad, and there is no such time due to overwhelming need to defend one's unstable position.
what about if members actually want to discuss the temptation of politics itself ... ?
As I understand the procedure, they are to go somewhere else where political combat is permitted. AC's political views are fair game, but we exhausted that approach when it was discovered that he had no fixed views and can be quoted from either side of any fence. The rebels, who insist on shooting their mouths off via the 2nd amendment, are no longer with us.
For my part, no information was relayed that was not anything but accurate
"medical disinformation" includes anything not stated in the official gov narrative. It has "quote marks" around it as it is a gov term. What you have already described qualifies. You have not yet grasped the scope of the PsyOp. Please contain the bulk of your commentary to AC-related matters. That is why we are here - not to discuss current events, unless ...
about the coming collapse of civil
and now we're running the races
trying not to spew too much drivel
Threefold-
I agree with hadgigegenraum that there is a poetic beauty in your qabalistic analysis and one which not only reflects but bolsters the idealism of Aleisterion's vision.
Dwtw
Thank you. It might be helpful to complete that analysis with a simple demonstration of the figures involved.
As seen in the diagram, in Base 3, the hexagram of 31 is a sort of complement to that of 666, as it has three Yang lines aligned with the three Tao lines of 666, (it is in fact the reversed-antigram of 666). This helps explain why a Book channeled by 666 bears the number of AL - 31.
When the two hexagrams of 31 found in Alostrael's name are combined, they of course make 62 by simple addition, (and Yang + Yang = Yin). And the hexagram of 62 is itself a different kind of complement to 666, by aligning its Yin lines with the empty spaces of Tao in the 666 hexagram. But then it goes one level further, because 62 is also the Reversal of the 666 hexagram. When combined, they make the 728 hexagram of the Pure Yin.
Note that the 666 hexagram is also a schematic representation of the 9 spheres below Kether on the Tree of Life. The Yin lines are the spheres of the two side pillars, and the Tao lines are the middle spheres of Tiferet-Yesod-Malkut.
The outer 'wings' of the name Alostrael are both Alef-Lamed. We are familiar with AL meaning 'God', but it is also the a word meaning 'power', a preposition meaning 'into or toward' and a prefix meaning 'not'. The center of Alostrael's name is Vav-Samek-Tav-Resh. Very few words in Hebrew begin with Vav, but it is commonly used as the connective word 'and'. Considering this, we can look at only Samek-Tav-Resh, which spells the word סתר meaning 'covering, hiding place, secret, secrecy'. Her full name would then be something like 'Power and the secret God'.
This word וסתר is found in Isaiah 28:17, meaning "and the hiding place"
in Isaiah 32:2, meaning "and a covert" (disguise or place of hiding)
in Job 24:15, meaning "and disguises" (referring to his face)
and if the Vav is moved to the end it becomes the masculine possessive suffix, found in Psalm 18:11 as סתרו meaning "his hiding place". Using this combination, the name Alostrael could be translated as "Into his hiding place (of) power". Some have translated the name Alostrael to mean 'the womb of god', but this is not really accurate.
Since the second 'A' of her name is not transliterated, this could easily represent the Vav, with the first 'O' being left untransliterated. The result would still total 728. I cannot ascertain from a web search which way her name was transliterated, so if anyone has a reference that would be helpful. I seem to recall that the Vav came first but am not entirely sure.
Litllwtw
O.L.
You can all respond to my said future thread when it is issued, and I am sorry about this derailment of this thread, and ask for others posting in it, not to derail it further.
Please stick to the actual topic of this thread.
Despite a sorry state doesn't this rather resemble that old maxim "Don't do as I do, do as I say", which [nearly] all rascally gurus regimentate (if that's a real word)?
When I first mentioned my future thread, in this thread, starting with the words "A little something you can expect ...", it was just intended to provide something to look forward to, for our dear fellow Jamie J Barter [and/or] Norma N Joy Conquest, at the latter's recent return to this site, after a long absence.
But as I asked before, what have I done to warrant and be saddled with this bounty out of the blue (dude)? Why little old me? And who the frig was "B" as well, which you didn't answer?
No good deed goes unpunished, I guess.
No, it doesn't. And to which I would add, "The debble finds work for idle hands to do", and "a stitch in time saves nine', to bolster this crackerbarrel collection of miscellaneous proverbs & bon mots.
A hypothetical question from me, with respect to the actual topic of this thread: [...]
If Aleister Crowley had died when she was the Scarlet Woman, would that have left Leah Hirsig in a position to become the main exponent of his Thelema?
Interesting question. I would be of the opinion that yes it does (did), but is of no relevance now. But I don't interpret the "all power given" as being anything relating to temporal power and global politics affairs. More to do with powerplay in the bedroom, if you get my drift, which would make A.C. numero deux there, which may possibly not have delighted him..
We, the patient audience, now get to look forward to RTC's non-existing proof plus WRWB's "deeper" character assassination of the vehicle of the prognosticator.
And of course, the upcoming paper on Leah Hirsig as 8=3 as well. Plenty of jam coming tomorrow.
"medical disinformation" includes anything not stated in the official gov narrative. It has "quote marks" around it as it is a gov term. What you have already described qualifies.
Yes, yes, of course I realize that.
You have not yet grasped the scope of the PsyOp.
Not quite sure how you could possibly tell, rabbit-hole wise.
Please contain the bulk of your commentary to AC-related matters. That is why we are here - not to discuss current events
Yes, yes, of course that is the "prime directive" here. But I was only answering (your) questions to begin with (and am continuing so to do) and wasn't originally going to refer to "jabs" or anything in a similar vein [ho-ho! *pun alert*] at all..
I wonder if she self-arose into self-claimed Magistership, or whether the grade was assigned by the Master ?
I expect it was the latter as it seems unlikely L.H. would be versed in all the intricacies of One Star In Sight and/or the jump-initiation phenomenon. More significant maybe is the issue of whether she claimed 8=3 when Aleister wasn't around.
It appears as though she jumped from normal person to 8=3 without any intervening grades. I wonder if she did all the prerequisite work ?
I doubt whether anyone has ever managed to do all the prerequisite work. For example, and quite low down the Tree, a 'perfect' control of the Astral body is required before advancement into zelator (not verbatim: I am paraphrasing here as I don't have the text to hand) - How many people are you aware of who has achieved that?
J Noy
How does holding 8=3 reconcile with the collapse and disorder of the vehicle after the yang current withdrew ?It appears as though she jumped from normal person to 8=3 without any intervening grades. I wonder if she did all the prerequisite work ?I wonder if she self-arose into self-claimed Magistership, or whether the grade was assigned by the Master ?
I think that the grade was assigned by Crowley. Off-hand I can't remember the remark that led me to believe that.
Crowley was ambiguous about the "loophole" allowing people to claim the Magister Templi grade without having done the intervening work. When Achad did that in 1916, and was recognised by Crowley as his Magical Son, it was fine and dandy. A few years later, when tensions were arising between the two men, then Crowley took the view that making use of this "loophole" was a little underhand. For instance, this is an extract from Crowley's diary of 24th July 1923, when he was speculating that he might have people attacking Achad's reputation:
"Point out that he has not complied with the Regulations of 7° = 4□ of R.R et A.C.by publishing a complete statement of his Point-of-View, &c. True, 666 has accepted him: but that only means he has taken advantage of the rule that any man can be 8° = 3□ if he dares to claim the Grade."
More significant maybe is the issue of whether she claimed 8=3 when Aleister wasn't around.
Some of the marketing "descriptions" of books on her include the words ... "appointed by" Crowley as his Scarlet Woman. This is much like J.F.C. Fuller being "appointed" as 5=6 in the Imprimatur, when in fact he was 0=0 ... all in order to round out the inner triad that then-currently had no such Adeptus at hand. I hope WellRead jots this infraction down.
I ordered the book for $9 and downloaded another version (different publication) for free. I really need to scrutinize the evidence more closely.
You point out an important factor. No Magister is going to arise in a group setting or with anyone walking alongside, unless it's an assistant, like Victor N. There is this matter of the Abyss, or maybe the +/- 40 days in the Wild.
It should be noted that the grading system that includes 8=3 is essentially a male presentation of the path. I have known a few ladies who did the work, step-by-step, but mostly the ladies have a completely reversed concept of the path. After all, the male aspirant must start beginning receptivity in order to later qualify as "the members of A.'.A.'. are women." Transgenderism not necessarily implied, but certainly concealed (inside).
a 'perfect' control of the Astral body is required before advancement into zelator
Your paraphrase is essentially correct. Without looking it up, I think the word "perfect" is not there, or if it can be found and used as evidence against me, I will defer to the 51% rule that governs all esoteric examinations that I have ever been involved in (as examiner or examinee). That is, "control" of anything is demonstrated by holding or demonstrating 51% of the requirement. In this case, one is either able to project and return, with data that is reasonably accurate, or flunk the test.
So, yes, I am in agreement with your observation, and I hold One Star as a primary road map, and I have gone to great lengths to devaluate certain provisions therein. Nobody has "perfect control" of their astral until they can use it as a vehicle to access the causal body, which is just the other side of Paroketh. So I'm not worried or concerned or fretting about the details of any grade. I am willing to up the anti-anny-ante and throw One Star aside, for the moment, and shift up to the new three-grade system, which is the only thing I use in daily life, and wonder: Did she demonstrate control of her outer vehicle complex (body-emotions-mind), tested under various conditions, without drug support, to earn her (wo)Man of Earth grade?
Next, did she establish some sort of dialog with her Self, or a messenger from her Self (Animus/HGA/etc) ... and did that lead to the issuance of a thesis and elevation to being a leader of a school of thought ... usually required to be "original" or "new" thought ... remembering that it only takes one follower to be a leader ... ?
I think the 4 real initiations are the 4-step program outlined in AL. These are visions, undoubtely with revelations. I think we won't find A.'.A.'. certificates in her assets, but it's pretty hard to judge if she passed the inner initiations.
I think that the grade was assigned by Crowley. Off-hand I can't remember the remark that led me to believe that.
This is also my assumption. I'll be reading the diaries more closely.
publishing a complete statement of his Point-of-View, &c.
And Perdurabo merely translated a text from his prior incarnation to complete this requirement. When the actual living daily details come to light, it becomes easier to see that all of this stuff is made-up subjective game playing. The practices and exams, which are about 50% subjective on the part of the scorer, are of great value in preparing anyone to enter the inner.
Talking to the HGA is cool, but after that politics is introduced (into a fraternal relationship that does not exist in 3D Malkuth or 4D astral, except for brief overshadowings), and One Star needs to be adjusted.
By the time we read on to grasp The Guidelines of the Supernal Order, we should also be attending a parallel course in how Magisters and Magi, with Ips thrown in, apply the rules in public and private - the list of clashes, expulsions, downgrades, and other horror stories is reminiscent of the stories about the Roman and Greek and Sumerian gods, killing, torturing, tricking their peers in one way or another.
But then, a Master is not a Master unless he is operating in The Light Body (Nirmanakaya, not astral or even causal), so it is apparent that the vehicle is not the Master, unless they happen to coincide, and this was made perfectly clear with the self-asked question, But which is Frater Perdurabo, and which is the Imp Crowley?
I ordered the book for $9 and downloaded another version (different publication) for free
Which book is this? If it was mentioned previously, my apologies and gratitude for any clarification.
I really need to scrutinize the evidence more closely.
I just located my old files with the Hirsig Diaries. More voluminous than I had recalled. 200-300 pages of material.
I'll be reading the diaries more closely.
As will I. I expressed my impression of Leah above (to Aleisterion) from recollection of my initial read years back but am now sufficiently interested enough to review the docs and see what I may have forgotten. Mayhap my view will shift some.
I hold One Star as a primary road map
As do I but
Perdurabo merely translated a text from his prior incarnation to complete this requirement
which is-IMO-kind of cheating.
it is apparent that the vehicle is not the Master, unless they happen to coincide
And that was/is the basis of my comment on Crowley "as" Ipsissimus. There is a point where the "Grades" do not describe individual attainment in terms of possession or identity. Rather they point toward something which the individual has come into contact with, entered and given themselves up to. The notion of being an individual, of even making progress or attaining anything, dissolves...it may well be that such a person leaves behind their attachment to labels at this point. They may have once sought to climb the ladder and become this or that, but having become it, they are no longer entwined with that desire-or the way things looked when that desire had yet to meet its object, goal or summation.
Crowley expresses this in the Book of Lies with "Pilgrim Talk" wherein the one on the path suddenly becomes The Way Itself.
Relative to AC's comment, thanks, Achad did publish Q.B.L. The Bride's Reception in 1922 and then the Egyptian Revival in 1923....Whether they are worthy for 7=4 is open to question, but they are important works...