It's good you seem so "up" at the moment compared with a couple of weeks ago (when you were going to take a break and were a bit more despondent) and especially so if it's not the up and down with bipolar/ manic depression.
Yeah, that's so true...that can be a problem! I hope to keep doing well...I'll let you know how it goes.
Us Brits are never quite sure whether Yankee refers to the whole USA or a particular geographical area which isn't Southern or "Confederate"!
It can mean either. I meant it to mean "Americans" though: many with whom I've come into contact have been stupid and cruel and obnoxious. Of course, I've come into contact with but a tiny percentage of the population.
Perhaps you could also just check with her if she knows whether Leah was a IX* as well as 8=3, and whether she has anything to say about her as a dead soul?
IX* is entirely possible, considering she played a big part at Thuringia. That is an interesting phrase, "dead soul", isn't it? She came up with that - this 19 year old girl - from off the top of her head! (Oh wait! she was older than that, sorry it's late and I'm sleepy - anyway she was young and new to the strange and the supernatural).
Cheers,
777
@aleisterion [quote data-userid="16388" data-postid="127239"
Thanks for your work and look forward to what is in the works with your partner, concerning Leah, Aloastrael.
I think that the story of her telling AC to paint her as a "Dead Soul" was always the great irony to the famous studio photograph of the mode.
(The subject of Crowley and photographic portraiture is a topic in itself)
What is interesting of that staging, of the model, Leah, before the painting Dead Souls and some other, is that there is something very much alive about capture of Leah...one wonders about other negatives perhaps, but I believed the staging of photos, then was often a one up affair, or several poses for a price most likely, which either way there is a certain naturalness that is~
So in that context, I must say that when you say that Crowley was a poor writer, "it wasn't so good", I am sort of intrigued as that is the first I have heard of such an opinion, though I will say that I have wondered how skilled a secretary Lean was, and if her skills were exceptional, well I will say that the Confessions is exceptional, and The Diary of a Drug Fiend, both said dictated to Leah, and it does have that, and of course the collected works are proof of the voluminous and stuffed with linguistic puffery of poetic allusions poured endlessly...but yes I would agree that Leah might well have been what allowed The Diary of a Drug Fiend to be written so quickly.
Now I did ask about your assertions about "benefits" to being 8=3 to which I appreciate Shiva's answer, but find yours to not have answered the question, but be that as it may, you did state that AC considered Blavatsky to be 8=3, to which I have accepted his perspective...and now wonder if the benefits of the degree are the ability to write tomes like Isis Unveiled and the Secret Doctrine and then get them published, two separate feats that now perhaps need to be questioned relative to a challenge to AC's writing abilities...perhaps masked by female proofreaders...lol...
Anyways I am glad that Jamie Barter would catch on to my cakes of light spoof, though some of the issues brought up therein do speak to this issue of the power brought up in these threads...missing the dna...
Yes the Scarlett Woman would seem, certainly relative to Rose, to serve as a Delphic Oracle of sorts, though I think that Leah did seek to expand the role and might have been influenced by Crowley's thoughts about the meaning of the term, especially as work was being done on the comments to Liber Legis with Leah as secretary then, too...
I must say that when you say that Crowley was a poor writer, "it wasn't so good", I am sort of intrigued as that is the first I have heard of such an opinion
Many misspellings mainly, in handwriting.
I did ask about your assertions about "benefits" to being 8=3
Aside from the happiness and joy and appreciation that comes with Supernal Understanding at the 8=3 Grade, there is full realization of one's Inner Genius which one unveiled at Adept Minor (5=6); and eventually, this develops into full power and glory of that Genius -- whatever it is (as Genius comes in many forms) -- at the Magus Grade (9=2), where one expresses that Genius at the highest level in support of the Word of the Magus of the Aeon wherein one finds oneself (currently Thelema - although others say differently).
Yes the Scarlett Woman would seem, certainly relative to Rose, to serve as a Delphic Oracle of sorts, though I think that Leah did seek to expand the role and might have been influenced by Crowley's thoughts about the meaning of the term, especially as work was being done on the comments to Liber Legis
H Kokkine Gyne is a holy office wherein is manifest infinite power, according to The Book of the Law, so I regard those in whom it was rooted as particularly important. Crowley issued a list of Scarlet Women in the Commentaries; however, there were a few that came after this list was written (e.g. Pearl Brooksmith). C.f. King of the Shadow Realm.
Cheers,
777
p.s. by "infinite power" I mean creatively and personally - i.e. not materialistic or political power.
[Underlining for emphasis:]
"Aha!, B (= B as in Jamie J Barter), I have always [mis-]understood your use of the signature Norma N Joy Conquest, to be your gender self-identification as a transgender person, or a transperson, or maybe a transsexual person, the latter not to be confused with the former transgender sexuality. And this [mis-]understanding is something I have never asked you about, as it would be vaguely indiscreet of me, and thus not in keeping with my well-known political correctness.
aleisterion: "H Kokkine Gyne is a holy office wherein is manifest infinite power, according to The Book of the Law, so I regard those in whom it was rooted as particularly important. [...]
p.s. by "infinite power" I mean creatively and personally - i.e. not materialistic or political power."
As infinite power is manifest in said holy office, is this infinite power strongly aligned with the the two infinites Nuit and Hadit, 'voiced' in respectively the first and the second chapter, of Aleister Crowley's three chaptered most holy book for his Thelema, The Book of the Law???:
[Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, chapter 1, verse 15.:] "15. Now ye shall know that the chosen priest & apostle of infinite space is the prince-priest the Beast; and in his woman called the Scarlet Woman is all power given. They shall gather my children into their fold: they shall bring the glory of the stars into the hearts of men."
[Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, chapter 1, verse 22.:] "22. Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt."
[Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, chapter 1, verse 4.:] "4. Every number is infinite; there is no difference."
[Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, chapter 2, verses 31. and 32.:] "31. If Power asks why, then is Power weakness. 32. Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise."
[Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, chapter 1, verse 1.:] "1. Had! The manifestation of Nuit."
[Aleister Crowley's The New Comment to said verse 1.:] "Our central Truth — beyond other philosophies — is that these two infinities [= Nuit & Hadit] cannot exist apart."
[Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law, chapter 2, verse 2.:] "2. Come! all ye, and learn the secret that hath not yet been revealed. I, Hadit, am the complement of Nu, my bride. I am not extended, and Khabs is the name of my House."
[Aleister Crowley's The Old Comment to said verse 2.:] "2. [...] Nuit is Infinite Extension; Hadit Infinite Contraction. Khabs is the House of Hadit, even as Nuit is the house of Khu, and the Khabs is in the Khu (I,8). These theologies reflect mystic experiences of Infinite Contraction and Expansion, while philosophically they [= Nuit & Hadit] are the two opposing Infinities whose interplay gives Finity."
@wellreadwellbred I'm not really sure but I'd really like to stay on topic...and let it be known that, with regard to all my posts, their content is always just my opinion, not concrete truth - though I always strive to be truthful!
and let it be known that, with regard to all my posts, their content is always just my opinion, not concrete truth - though I always strive to be truthful!
This thread on Leah Hirsig / Alostrael has been very interesting to me. Many years ago someone smuggled out from the Warburg one of her diaries, copied it, and smuggled it back in again. Subsequently, the diary was reproduced in a mimeographed format, slide binding, etc. I bought one, but didn't think very much of it. My copy of the mimeograph went the way of all flesh a while back now, but there are more sources apparent at various points in this thread which I'll follow uo. So thanks.
I have always [mis-]understood your use of the signature Norma N Joy Conquest, to be your gender self-identification as a transgender person, or a transperson, or maybe a transsexual person, the latter not to be confused with the former transgender sexuality.
Originally the separating of the second N from the 'Norman Conquest' to produce Norma was nothing to do with either transgenderism, transexualism or anything of that ilk (e.g. Frank Furter hailing from, or not from, Transylvania), but to show solidarity with the sisterhood at the time as they seemed under represented on the forum (even more so these days...) and I thought I would try to help matters along a bit by having another prominent poster being apparently female or at least leaving the matter ambiguous.
Unfortunately at the time, even though the issue of gender fluidity had yet to become anywhere near as controversial as it is these days, it resulted in one member who will remain nameless accusing me of some sort of terrible subterfuge and going against the "grain" of Upfrontness & general integrity suggested by the Guidelines, and who was actually on the point of making an official report/ complaint about it until I informed him that I'd already raised the matter with Paul, and who whilst not exactly bestowing upon me a profusion of blessings, had expressed no reservations or concerns about it either. Exit poster sheepishly with tail twixt his legs, and no one else has seen fit to mention or far less complain about the matter since.
"Aha!, B (= B as in Jamie J Barter)
I am requesting that you refrain from using my last name in this way on the forums. While i have no objection to being addressed in this way in everyday life if & where appropriate, i feel the similar use of it here creates a slightly discordant 'tone' inasmuch as no one else sees fit to engage in the practice, and it could therefore be construed as a hostile or "unfriendly" act, even if not directly meant this way. If anyone feels like they simply have to, you could at least prefix it with a 'Mr'. to demonstrate no disrespect intended? But safer just to refrain altogether..
I would therefore be glad if you would kindly cease & desist in the future, Well, as apart from anything else I am not able to reciprocate with you since nobody else apart from Mr Staley has seen fit or been bothered to use their 'real' (civilian) name & instead chosen to disguise themselves - for whatever (valid) reasons - behind a false pseudo nym.
Incidentally, how much preparation is necessary for you to start a new thread? i'd say ask Dom/ David for advice - at his peak he was once doing two or three a week - too many, in my opinion, perhaps suggestive of some psychological issue(s) coming to the fore. Come to think of it now, on occasion he used to address me just by my surname as well, Well ( the little toerag tyke...)
And this [mis-]understanding is something I have never asked you about, as it would be vaguely indiscreet of me, and thus not in keeping with my well-known political correctness.
Yeah, yeah... if you say so (and all that) yadda yadda next please!
aleisterion: "H Kokkine Gyne is a holy office wherein is manifest infinite power, according to The Book of the Law,
As infinite power is manifest in said holy office, is this infinite power
PLEASE NOTE that all the infinites you gave as underlined examples are redundant for purposes of comparison here, as the original description in AL was not "is infinite power given" but "is all power given" - which is a decidedly different kettle de poisson and a more Finite matter, alongside which the matter of "all" power is as a mere speck of a drop in the ocean.
Therefore your comment, Aleisterion, on this:
I'm not really sure
is not relevant, and actually superfluous! However I would agree with your opinion here -
p.s. by "infinite all power" I mean creatively and personally - i.e. not materialistic or political power.
Does anybody else actually take the contrasting view, that the Scarlet Woman/ H Kokkine Gyne has a more worldwide, geopolitical reach or influence (than the Beast 666, in effect)?
N Yoj
the original description in AL was not "is infinite power given" but "is all power given" - which is a decidedly different kettle de poisson and a more Finite matter, alongside which the matter of "all" power is as a mere speck of a drop in the ocean.
The reason I slipped up there and wrote "infinite power" is because Nu is Universality as Had is Unity -- but I accept your correction there (H Kokkine Gyne & To Mega Therion being terrestrial manifestations of Universality & Unity, respectfully).
Now, maybe...we can return to Leah Hirsig, the sixth Scarlet Woman.
The reason I slipped up there and wrote "infinite power" is because Nu is Universality as Had is Unity -
But Had is the manifestation of Nu and Nu the hiding of Hadit !! and the 'Unity' is more of a matter of Nowt (=2) - and it doesn't actually explain why you should write infinite instead of all, at all!
Really not wanting to take issue with you but at the same time wanting to put the matter straight, which takes precedent over & trumps it, the answer may be in fact quite straightforward: it may be a variation of the standard 'curse of Crowley', a reaction caused by your taking the name of the prophet in vain vis-a-vis his apparent mis-spellings (as a master of the English language & vocabulary) which were associated with an overall apparent poorness as a writer (ditto)...
If the above were so though and you'd somehow invoked some dis-ease of language, I'm confident you'd be able to deal with it appropriately...
Now, maybe...we can return to Leah Hirsig, the sixth Scarlet Woman.
The reason I think people are finding it difficult.to 'return to 'L.H., the topic' is that there are such finite amounts of "meat" to chew over - hence the desire to have something fresh to go on from Aliana, and the reason I tried to introduce something new with the questioning of the motive behind her being a dover sole dead soul. I also have a at least half-way relevant question which I referred to previously and the way things are going may introduce it shortly (although wouldn't want to get your or anyone else's hopes up about it).
Quite apart from that though, another query has just this minute occurred to me: despite his undoubted desire, did Norman Mudd and Leah ever get round to having a particularly close, intimate connection - or in other words, did they ever perform sex magic/ more than have it off themselves?
N JoY
JJB (= short for Jamie J[.] Barter): "Does anybody else actually take the contrasting view, that the Scarlet Woman/ H Kokkine Gyne has a more worldwide, geopolitical reach or influence (than the Beast 666, in effect)?"
In his second most important book for his Thelema, The Vision and the Voice, Aleister Crowley wrote that, "This is Babalon, the true mistress of The Beast; of Her, all his mistresses on lower planes are but avatars."
In the same book Aleister Crowley wrote "This is a form of Babalon.", in and endnote about a voice, saying: "my mother Nuit".
According to the understanding of Nuit and Hadit within Aleister Crowley's Thelema, already covered above by me in this thread, this means that all of his Scarlet Women – among them Leah Hirsig – are but avatars of a daughter of the infinity Nuit, within his Thelema, Babalon.
With respect to "the Beast 666", Aleister Crowley wrote this in his The New Comment to Chapter 1, verse 15. [ – "Now ye shall know that the chosen priest & apostle of infinite space is the prince-priest the Beast; and in his woman called the Scarlet Woman is all power given. They shall gather my children into their fold: they shall bring the glory of the stars into the hearts of men." – ] in his The Book of the Law:
"It is necessary to say here that The` Beast appears to be a definite individual; to wit, the man Aleister Crowley. But the Scarlet Woman is an officer replaceable as need arises. Thus to this present date of writing, Anno XVI, Sun in Sagittarius, there have been several holders of the title."
The reason I think people are finding it difficult.to 'return to 'L.H., the topic' is that there are such finite amounts of "meat" to chew over - hence the desire to have something fresh to go on from Aliana, and the reason I tried to introduce something new with the questioning of the motive behind her being a dover sole dead soul.
But the book Soror Aliana is working on has everything to do with Leah Hirsig! And that "dead soul" thing...it has tons of deeper meaning, as brought out and explained in the book.
Unfortunately, the book has no publisher. Maybe someday, hopefully.
Cheers,
777
But Had is the manifestation of Nu and Nu the hiding of Hadit !! and the 'Unity' is more of a matter of Nowt (=2) - and it doesn't actually explain why you should write infinite instead of all, at all!
Now you're just being Choronzonic...
it may be a variation of the standard 'curse of Crowley', a reaction caused by your taking the name of the prophet in vain vis-a-vis his apparent mis-spellings (as a master of the English language & vocabulary) which were associated with an overall apparent poorness as a writer (ditto)...
Oh that's hilarious...so now we get the "curse of Crowley" for taking his name in vain?! I realize you're just joking of course...I do hope we never really get to that point.
If the above were so though and you'd somehow invoked some dis-ease of language, I'm confident you'd be able to deal with it appropriately...
With all power!!
did Norman Mudd and Leah ever get round to having a particularly close, intimate connection - or in other words, did they ever perform sex magic
They had sex but I doubt that it actually had dramatic magical consequences...but who knows about such things? Mudd of course wound up drowning himself as you know.
Aleister Crowley wrote that, "This is Babalon, the true mistress of The Beast; of Her, all his mistresses on lower planes are but avatars."
This is correct. I am glad you located this statement. I am now wondering in which Aethyer I should investigate the prototype?
... this means that all of his Scarlet Women – among them Leah Hirsig – are [were] but avatars of a daughter of the infinity Nuit, within his Thelema, Babalon.
This is my impression.
"It is necessary to say here that The` Beast appears to be a definite individual; to wit, the man Aleister Crowley. But the Scarlet Woman is an officer replaceable as need arises. Thus to this present date of writing, Anno XVI, Sun in Sagittarius, there have been several holders of the title."
In this case, it is auspicious that there was only one Beast. But then we have a superstitious rumor of a second one. Everyone has their own Id to insert into the paradigm, , calling it Igor, Franken, Robo, Zilla, Kong - whatever fits one's inner paradigm of conflict.
Said Red Ladies were handed the mantle for as long as they could wear it without going over the edge, not because they did the work, but because they were clear reflectors of the 666 energy.
We know that< Rose started it AL, but then in the aftermath, first it was alcohol, then off to the farm.
While traversing the abyss, it is necessary and customary for things to be removed. But only those things to which one is attached need apply. I always wondered why Laylah left Perdurabo. Certainly not because he dropped her or sent her away.
In this case, it is auspicious that there was only one Beast. But then we have a superstitious rumor of a second one. Everyone has their own Id to insert into the paradigm,
To Mega Therion, The Great Beast, is also an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the masculine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet), just as H Kokkine Gyne, The Scarlet Woman, is an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the feminine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet).
I claim to be no Beast, but I do assert that the Book of the Law is merely a veil; yet even Crowley failed to know everything.
Further, according to L 3:34 -- there's that verse again! -- "another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globèd priest", and "blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord!"
Again, whatever I write here, feel free to dismiss...
By the way -- and this is a common mistake -- Leila Waddell, or Laylah, was not on Crowley's list of Scarlet Women. She slept with Crowley, but she wasn't an actual vessel of Babalon, according to Crowley. But think what you will! I would say that she was a disciple, for a time.
Cheers,
777
I always wondered why Laylah left Perdurabo.
Golly, hard to imagine any possible answer to that one!
Of course, none of us current participants in this discussion are women.
Possibly if any women were participating, they might be willing to share their thoughts to why any women might possibly ever even consider leaving a heavy-drinking, heroin-and-cocaine-injecting, ether-sniffing, sarcastic, egotistical, bossy, cranky, ill-tempered man, who was constantly trying to screw anything that moved, male, female, or anything else.
And who likes to eat her shit.
I mean, can we all say "Prize package! Dream man!!" in unison?
Please. Man had more "red flags" than China and the late Soviet Union combined.
Leah Hirsig, after renouncing the Office of Scarlet Woman (so that Dorothy could assume Office), eventually got to work as Crowley's dedicated secretary and general assistant; and her work was indispensable. Does this not deserve some appreciation? "Once a Scarlet Woman, always a Scarlet Woman"!
Well, she is an inspiration to some of us, anyway.
Possibly if any women were participating, they might be willing to share their thoughts to why any women might possibly ever even consider leaving a heavy-drinking, heroin-and-cocaine-injecting, ether-sniffing, sarcastic, egotistical, bossy, cranky, ill-tempered man, who was constantly trying to screw anything that moved, male, female, or anything else.
And who likes to eat her shit.
Aliana says that love could be the reason...even though she never had to deal with some of those things!
As for this...
To Mega Therion, The Great Beast, is also an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the masculine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet), just as H Kokkine Gyne, The Scarlet Woman, is an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the feminine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet).
It's just my analysis of it, not official Thelemic Canon (whatever that is). How else do you explain that every Scarlet Woman had a direct connection with Aiwaz, and could astrally commune therewith?
Also, it was Rose Kelly -- not Aleister Crowley -- to whom Aiwaz came first. In fact, Crowley failed to heed her for awhile. Then, he required extensive testing, a sign, and a ritual, before he "connected".
I've formulated ideas over the decades...but they're just that -- ideas, nothing special. Please don't get the impression that I think I'm some kind of Beast or something, because I'm not.
Cheers,
777 (Aleisterion transliterated in Hebrew)
Golly, hard to imagine any possible answer to that one!
Of course, none of us current participants in this discussion are women.
Possibly if any women were participating, they might be willing to share their thoughts to why any women might possibly ever even consider leaving a heavy-drinking, heroin-and-cocaine-injecting, ether-sniffing, sarcastic, egotistical, bossy, cranky, ill-tempered man, who was constantly trying to screw anything that moved, male, female, or anything else.
And who likes to eat her shit.
I mean, can we all say "Prize package! Dream man!!" in unison?
Please. Man had more "red flags" than China and the late Soviet Union combined.
I read this out-loud to my wife. She is NOT a Crowley fan and agreed with the sentiment 100%. I had to share it, though, as it was also quite funny and well penned.
And isn't it crazy that we still love the man? We continue to find value in his work despite being all this?
It's the whole Imp/Demon vs. the Enlightened Messenger thing.
Unfortunately, the book has no publisher. Maybe someday, hopefully.
Aleisterion, if you wish to get a hold of me off the forum, I have some thoughts about some possibilities here.
The` Beast appears to be a definite individual; to wit, the man Aleister Crowley. But the Scarlet Woman is an officer replaceable as need arises.
Bring the next one around to the back door...with the milk.
There seems to be a certain gap between the basic philosophic tenets of Thelema-and its incorporation into a religion with Crowley as its
heavy-drinking, heroin-and-cocaine-injecting, ether-sniffing, sarcastic, egotistical, bossy, cranky, ill-tempered
prophet and central figure.
By contrast with Ignant's description, I recall Lon Milo Duquette laughing all of this off and simply describing AC as a "Holy Man," with Cefalu as a type of resort for frisky English people who wanted to run naked on the beach.
THAT portrayal seems to be the "promotional one" in a religious context.
But there IS another Crowley who is neither Imp nor Voice of the Gods, neither pathological asshole nor Sage-but a very strange, very driven man whose worst characteristics were as ballast to his highest being. The ego-play of his self-centered religion is also as ballast to these moments where something really good breaks through and seems to shake the rest off. I suspect it was THIS that was at the center of a charisma which could draw in so much devotion from people who were about to experience the pain and degradation of entering into a relationship with Aleister Crowley. It was there and true-but smothered in the end by a resurgence of the Skandhas which AC couldn't quite wash off.
And isn't it crazy that we still love the man? We continue to find value in his work despite being all this?
Obviously i would not have been reading the man and doing practices he suggested for more than 50 years, and hanging around here for 18 of those years, if my opinion of AC were confined to the description above.
But it doesn't take much thought, or reflection on his romantic history, to realize that he was a nightmare boyfriend/husband.
it doesn't take much thought, or reflection on his romantic history, to realize that he was a nightmare boyfriend/husband.
Absolutely. And in the end, I think he seemed to be more of a lonely figure, winding down at Hastings. He had his final followers, yes, but he also must have looked back at the body count and wondered if things may not have been different.
But even there...I recall the story of a little boy who lived nearby and whose parents were throwing a birthday party for their young son. They asked what he wanted and he expressed that he wanted Mr. Crowley to be invited. How he knew of AC, I don't know-but AC, apparently obliged, and dressed up in the most theatrical and exotic fashion, arriving like a character from The Arabian Nights. Here was the self-conceived Prophet of an Antichrist religion showing up to entertain a little kid and his friends. The Great Beast was not above being the perpetual buffoon-and for the happiness of others (at least in this case).
And also from Hastings: I recall a story where AC, now old and balding, came down the stairs with his uncut hair sticking out from the side of his head. He remarked to the other boarders "Now, boys, you can see the horns!"
He also had a lot of suffering-which Bruce Dickinson (of "Chemical Wedding" fame) expressed in his song "Man of Sorrows." It is typically Jesus who is referred to as such-but here Bruce transfers the title to Crowley as a "Prophet of our Emptiness."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n5a0LMq_Eg
Sort of an answer to Ozzy's "Mr. Crowley," which I'm sure led many to begin an exploration of his work.
But, Aleisterion, I don't mean to leave Leah in the lurch with my meanderings here. Rather to discuss a bit of the man who brought magic and romance into her world-and also some not so nice things.
Aleisterion, if you wish to get a hold of me off the forum, I have some thoughts about some possibilities here.
Okey dokey...sounds good!
But, Aleisterion, I don't mean to leave Leah in the lurch with my meanderings here. Rather to discuss a bit of the man who brought magic and romance into her world-and also some not so nice things.
But really, come on, we can't be the only Thelemic couple with hardcore fetishes!! Why is that so unusual? I mean, we don't practice coprophagia, but it was my thought, after reading the diaries, that he did it out of worshipful love, to prove his devotion to the Scarlet Woman, Leah Hirsig!
Everything he did, even the dark things, had their basis in love; the Holy Books of Thelema are a continual torrent of Holy Love!
"Love is the whole way, and the foundation of all will."
Agape!
Okey dokey...sounds good!
Excellent!
But really, come on, we can't be the only Thelemic couple with hardcore fetishes!! Why is that so unusual? I mean, we don't practice coprophagia, but it was my thought, after reading the diaries, that he did it out of worshipful love, to prove his devotion to the Scarlet Woman, Leah Hirsig!
Everything he did, even the dark things, had their basis in love; the Holy Books of Thelema are a continual torrent of Holy Love!
I think there was more to it than that-but that is MY perspective. AC was a man who needed to be debased. Despite his bold and bright denouncement of Guilt and Sin, he seems to have struggled with this all his life. Crucify a toad but you can't escape "The Hound of Heaven." Or Hell.
I recall AC treating Leah poorly and subjecting her to situations I would consider abusive. This is not unique to Leah. He also treated Victor N like crap. And many others.
My point is that I don't see some beautiful devoted relationship with Aleister and Leah. His diary notes on eating her "offering" did not suggest enjoyment. Certainly not some transmutation of shit into gold, of filth into ambrosia. So more of a "self-debasement" than a fulfilling fetish or magical maneuver.
And if AC WAS devoted to Leah, it certainly went the way of all his other "devotions." Doomed to a wipe-out. Hard feelings and people vanishing from his horizon. A lonely old man dying alone with a trail of ruined friendships and loves.
Despite all of this, I am very interested your more positive view of the affair. I don't view all of this talk as being one viewpoint against another. I would love to see your book in print and (again) please ask me about this off the forum. I think all of us involved in this thread would love to read it for further discussion.
Excellent!
Right on then! Gimme a few days and either Aliana or I can shoot an email or get on the walkie talkie...
I think there was more to it than that-but that is MY perspective. AC was a man who needed to be debased.
He definitely was a cuckold...in their travels, Leah took along a black man for her pleasure. But what's wrong with that? Nothing, of course! Aliana and I get along fine, after 20 years in an open relationship.
My point is that I don't see some beautiful devoted relationship with Aleister and Leah. His diary notes on eating her "offering" did not suggest enjoyment
Not enjoyment, but duty of worship, of devotion.
And yes! he very much loved her! of course passion can fade over time. In this universe, he opted to leave her: so what? who knows what's next? After what I've seen, Leah's legacy is ongoing!
And if AC WAS devoted to Leah, it certainly went the way of all his other "devotions." Doomed to a wipe-out. Hard feelings and people vanishing from his horizon. A lonely old man dying alone with a trail of ruined friendships and loves.
Death not ends it (Morrison)...every end has a beginning...and all that jazz!
Really, it's not the past that matters. Thelema, to me, is about love, the very foundation of the will. It's not negative at all. It's all still veiled: but there is joy in the unveiling; and we live in exciting times, just decades following -- no, I take that back, she was still living when some of us were alive.
Despite all of this, I am very interested your more positive view of the affair. I don't view all of this talk as being one viewpoint against another.
Likewise, my brother afar! However you wanna see things, it's okay with me! I just think I stay healthier and happier if I keep positive about it all! One thing I know, there was love and passion there, for a time anyway.
I wonder if, near the end, he ever looked back on Leah, and regretted his actions. Or at least wondered how things might've played out differently had things gone another way. Probably not: after all, why be sad? for there is always tomorrow.
I would love to see your book in print and (again) please ask me about this off the forum. I think all of us involved in this thread would love to read it for further discussion.
That's cool! It's Aliana's book, so she'll be the one contacting you. This is really great news for her, she'll be so excited later when she hears about it!
Cheers,
777
Now you're just being Choronzonic...
How so? Which bit are you saying is confusion/-ing? (Unless you're joking)
Oh that's hilarious...so now we get the "curse of Crowley" for taking his name in vain?! I realize you're just joking of course...I do hope we never really get to that point.
Ne'er mock the curse!
They had sex but I doubt that it actually had dramatic magical consequences...but who knows about such things? Mudd of course wound up drowning himself as you know.
I just wondered if he (tried to) function as a proxy sort-of stand-in (up?) for the Beast.
I wonder how often. Is it actually documented somewhere, maybe in his own Rex de Arte Regia? I don't actually recall it myself although they must have done it at least once as a pity fuck, if she were whoring herself for the cost of living elsewhere. She didn't seem to fancy Norman much herself unfortunately (for him). I feel a little bit sorry for him actually ('though officially that's not really allowed of course!) - The curse of Crowley again!! He went against The Comment, at his own dire risk and peril.
I always wondered why Laylah left Perdurabo. Certainly not because he dropped her or sent her away.
Wasn't it because she had some violining commitment overseas? And then after the Beast went to America, he found other women and they drifted apart. A bit like a Brief Encounter (Cowardy version)...
just as H Kokkine Gyne, The Scarlet Woman, is an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the feminine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet).
I thought Baphomet hirself was androgynous?
I do assert that the Book of the Law is merely a veil
What of? Surely not - (drum roll) the Book of Desolation?!!
heroin-and-cocaine-injecting
I don't think he engaged in this at that (Laylah) time - did he ever inject coke or what's now called a snowball?
And who likes to eat her shit.
I think he liked the idea more than the reality, and was unable to actually get/keep it down!
Please don't get the impression that I think I'm some kind of Beast or something, because I'm not.
I claim to be no Beast
I don't think anyone had ever entertained the possibility! It never even entered my head until you mentioned/raised it! (Be careful you don't protest too much!)
Aliana says that love could be the reason.
Ah yes, the timeless old Amor Vincit Omnia! Corny for some maybe, but wholly indisputable!..
Bring the next one around to the back door...with the milk.
Ha, nice one (and don't forget to dispose of the empties)
It was there and true-but smothered in the end by a resurgence of the Skandhas which AC couldn't quite wash off.
A.C. by himself mightn't have, but what about him as an Ipsissimus? To whom Skandhas would be as easy to deal with as pie
Sort of an answer to Ozzy's "Mr. Crowley," which I'm sure led many to begin an exploration of his work.
With a similar degree of accuracy to those who were led astray by John Symonds! (There must be a moral there somewhere...)
I don't mean to leave Leah in the lurch with my meanderings here.
No, Aleister did that by himself with Dorothy Olsen!
Absolutely. And in the end, I think he seemed to be more of a lonely figure, winding down at Hastings. He had his final followers, yes, but he also must have looked back at the body count and wondered if things may not have been different.
"I have been such a silly ass sometimes" as he reflected in his Diary. Or roughly words to that effect.
N Jooy
just as H Kokkine Gyne, The Scarlet Woman, is an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the feminine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet).
JB retorts ... I thought Baphomet hirself was androgynous?
Somehow, the phrase "H Kokkine Gyne," slipped into the flow of English words. It apparently has some significance, for those who read Celtic or Enochian, but I remain in the Huh? state.
The longer phrase, "the terrestrial manifestation of the feminine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet)," is loaded with questionable attributes ... and, yes, Bafo, hirself, is self-androgized.
"I have been such a silly ass sometimes" as he reflected in his Diary. Or roughly words to that effect.
And one version of his final utterance is, Perplexion.
Somehow, the phrase "H Kokkine Gyne," slipped into the flow of English words. It apparently has some significance, for those who read Celtic or Enochian,
It's apparently Greek (although I am no Grecian scholar myself), and cabbalistically comes to a total of 667 making her a next-door-neighbour to The Beast (666).
but I remain in the Huh? state.
"Huh?" is a good state to be in transitionally, but not as good as "Ho!" or even "Ha!" in the end, and to which one might aspire.
And one version of his final utterance is, Perplexion.
If not actually apocryphal I suppose it might have indicated that he wasn't able to understand everything...
And who among us can with a pure heart claim not to, at some point in his (or her!) life, ever have been "a silly ass"?
When you find the time, could you (pretty please) possibly address the (4 or 5) 'loose ends' I raised earlier? (If you are still cogitating these, please ignore this last statement & thx)
N Joy
How so? Which bit are you saying is confusion/-ing? (Unless you're joking)
Just joking...ha ha
Ne'er mock the curse!
Oh, okay...so it's okay to attack Crowley for having sexual fetishes, but never talk about his poor spelling!
I just wondered if he (tried to) function as a proxy sort-of stand-in (up?) for the Beast.
I wonder how often. Is it actually documented somewhere, maybe in his own Rex de Arte Regia? I don't actually recall it myself although they must have done it at least once as a pity fuck, if she were whoring herself for the cost of living elsewhere. She didn't seem to fancy Norman much herself unfortunately (for him). I feel a little bit sorry for him actually ('though officially that's not really allowed of course!) - The curse of Crowley again!! He went against The Comment, at his own dire risk and peril.
They eventually had sex after her split from Crowley in 1924, in Paris. It was his dream come true: he was madly in love. Obviously it didn't last long.
I thought Baphomet hirself was androgynous?
Exactly: To Mega Therion and H Kokkine Gyne.
Cheers,
777
Somehow, the phrase "H Kokkine Gyne," slipped into the flow of English words. It apparently has some significance, for those who read Celtic or Enochian, but I remain in the Huh? state.
The complement of To Mega Therion (which adds to 666 in Greek meaning "The Great Beast"), H Kokkine Gyne means "The Scarlet Woman" in Greek and numerates as 667. Crowley mentions the phrases in The Book of Thoth.
Just joking...ha ha
And I should bloody well hope so, too (retorted Jamie - jokingly!)
To Mega Therion and H Kokkine Gyne [= Baphomet?]
I can find no right retort to this comment at the moment. Maybe someone else can step in?
They eventually had sex after her split from Crowley in 1924, in Paris. It was his dream come true: he was madly in love. Obviously it didn't last long.
At least he -- I was going to make a rather risque and probably inappropriate joke there, but have decided best not to.
Oh, okay...so it's okay to attack Crowley for having sexual fetishes, but never talk about his poor spelling!
It's not so much his spelling surely as his godawful handwriting? As I said before - surely you cannot disagree - he was a master of the English language and vocabulary? But if what you're really complaining about is his often illegible penmanship: maybe as he communicated to Ataturk it did reveal 'character', but I agree with you it was often atrocious.
Isn't all this criticism of his Crowleyness alongside talk of the terrible 'curse' making you feel just that little bit nervous though, Aleisterion? I know it is, me!
N Joy
To Mega Therion and H Kokkine Gyne [= Baphomet?]
I can find no right retort to this comment at the moment. Maybe someone else can step in?
Baphomet is the Androgyne, half-beast, half-woman. Beast and Scarlet Woman.
At least he -- I was going to make a rather risque and probably inappropriate joke there, but have decided best not to.
Oh I get it now...that's hilarious...Yeah, he wasn't long-lasting...ha ha
It's not so much his spelling surely as his godawful handwriting?
Misspelling, not illegible handwriting. No, I'm not in the least nervous. I don't think it's a problem to mention it, no.
H Kokkine Gyne means "The Scarlet Woman" in Greek and numerates as 667.
Pretty strange Greek (not that i know much Greek- the language is literally Greek to me).
At the very least, "H Kokkine Gyne" [aka ""ὴ κόκκινὴ γυνὴ"] is not the way "The Scarlet Woman" is referred to in Revelations 17 in Greek, not that any "Scarlet Woman" per se is mentioned in Revelations.
But there is indeed a woman (rendered as γυνὴ/gynē), "arrayed in purple and scarlet colour" (17:4, KJV), and she is "sit upon a scarlet coloured beast" (17:3), with "scarlet" in each case rendered as "κόκκινον/kokkinon". And not as "κόκκινὴ", we note.
https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/17-3.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/17-4.htm
So, if we wanted to refer to this beast-sitting person as "The Scarlet Woman", looks like your man John of Patmos would have gone for "ἡ κόκκινον γυνὴ/h kokkinon gynē".
But, of course, there is a problem with this method of simply using the actual Biblical spelling for this Bible-derived character's name: "ἡ κόκκινον γυνὴ/h kokkinon gynē" adds up to the distinctly un-glamourous 779, two blocks up from the Beast, but still on the opposite side of the street from him, just like AC's fudgy 667 version.
779 is "unspeakable, ineffable" in Liber MCCLXIV The Greek Qabalah, and a dry hole, zilch, nada, nothing in Liber D Sepher Sephiroth.
So it was time to get a-fudgin' and a-fiddlin', and our man AC was equal to the task. And managed to get 667, making her the Neighbor Of the Beast, right across the street, convenient whenever she wants to be "sit upon" him.
Crowley mentions the phrases in The Book of Thoth.
In the Ace of Disks section (p. 211), to save others searching.
Baphomet is the Androgyne, half-beast, half-woman. Beast and Scarlet Woman.
But you also seemed to be saying that Baphomet=Aiwaz:
To Mega Therion, The Great Beast, is also an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the masculine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet), just as H Kokkine Gyne, The Scarlet Woman, is an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the feminine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet).
Aren't these terms getting mixed up?
Oh I get it now...that's hilarious..
Roll up, roll up, it's "Make Your Own Punchline Up" time! So much more satisfying than the real (original) thing...
(in Austin Powers voice🙂 NOW you're getting it -- Yeah, baby!
Misspelling, not illegible handwriting.
I have run out of possible explanations with which to try to excuse your possible misjudgement. Please now provide a few examples to prove A.C. couldn't spell "Forttofey"...
No, I'm not in the least nervous.
"Oh - do Behave!"
N Joy
Aren't these terms getting mixed up?
I got mixed up a while ago. Then I remembered that if anything has a name, color, form, etc, it is below the abyss and thus just made-up stuff. The made-ups are necessary if one is going to use this fictitious hierarchy to get out. So once anybody picks a Path, they need to be discriminatory in term of separating the Sh.'. from the Sh.'..
Yeah, the great revelation of the day is that we get out by building a bridge, in mental matter, in meditation. Crowley outlined the coolest bridge for western minds. Some western minds want to wanter eastward, and they investigate Hindu, Buddhist, Chine, tibetan, Japanese bridge construction. North Korea and Borneo are not so popular.
It's all made-up, but there's a common thread running through them all ... this is likely to be the truest path (after all the superstructure is removed). I am not being adverse to anything. I used the Crowley Tree-Bridge to good effect.
Baphomet is the Androgyne, half-beast, half-woman. Beast and Scarlet Woman.
But you also seemed to be saying that Baphomet=Aiwaz:
Half Prophet/Half Oracle. Aiwaz is, in other words, linked not just to Crowley, but to the Scarlet Women too.
To Mega Therion, The Great Beast, is also an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the masculine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet), just as H Kokkine Gyne, The Scarlet Woman, is an Office, as well as the terrestrial manifestation of the feminine side of Aiwaz (i.e. Baphomet).
Aren't these terms getting mixed up?
See above! I'm not saying they're all identical, but they're linked by the 93 Current (i.e. Aiwaz). No, Aleister Crowley is not Aiwaz, nor is the Scarlet Woman; but the same Current communicates through both Beast and the Scarlet Woman, not just through the Beast.
Misspelling, not illegible handwriting.
I have run out of possible explanations with which to try to excuse your possible misjudgement. Please now provide a few examples to prove A.C. couldn't spell "Forttofey"...
Why are you focused on this minor issue? So he goofed with a few words here and there...it's not the worst thing. But Leah Hirsig cleaned it all up nicely and gave us the books we have today.
No, I'm not in the least nervous.
"Oh - do Behave!"
Oh how boring that would be!
Cheers,
777
Leah Hirsig, herself, in her diary, did mention the link between the Scarlet Women (all of them) and Aiwaz/Aiwass. At one point, she complained that she had difficulty accessing Aiwaz, but it did happen. Of course, Aiwaz is a preterhuman intelligence not bound to Crowley nor to his Oracles, and it is not Baphomet literally, of course, because there is no Baphomet -- it's a symbol.
What I've been saying here is that Aiwaz is Baphometic: linked to both the Prophet and his Oracles alike.
Leah wasn't the best medium for the invocation of Aiwaz in Crowley's life -- that would be Rose Kelly, I think -- who knows?
one version of his final utterance is, Perplexion.
I am reminded of Goethe. His last words were (supposedly) "Light! More Light!"
This was Masonic Propaganda. Goethe, a Freemason, shed his mortal coil yearning for greater vistas of Spiritual Insight.
Of course, there are other accounts which say he was simply asking for the curtains to be opened.
If Crowley, a few short breaths from biting the big one, said he was "perplexed," I highly doubt it was over the "Big Questions" of "Life, The Universe and Everything."
We don't often go out in a ceremonious blaze of glory. Thomas Merton slipped while getting out of the tub. Powerful lives can end choking on a chicken bone. Last words might be "Great...I just shit my pants."
Baphomet is the Androgyne, half-beast, half-woman. Beast and Scarlet Woman
Or 1/3 Beast, 1/3 Woman, 1/3 Caduceus. And that's not including the weird "Head-Torch."
Levi (who Crowley believed he WAS) said the Big B was an image of the ASTRAL LIGHT.
This has been likened to Chi/Qi and other related ideas.
A valid question would be: How is the "Astral Light" related to the Beast/Scarlet Woman dynamic?
Why are you focused on this minor issue? So he goofed with a few words here and there...it's not the worst thing
I am focused on it because originally it was phrased as if he was a terrible writer with its implication of poor language skills, then it switched to being a poor speller although now not so bad as a writer. There's enough to go on with which to criticise A.C. already (as can be seen from some of the comments above) without adding more which aren't really true as well. You gave the impression there were tons' of examples but seem reluctant, or incapable (or reluctantly incapable) of providing just a smattering of the most revealing of these to bolster your proposition and upon further enquiry downgraded it to just "goofed here and there"...
And then you want to defensively change tack by diverting attention into it now being a "minor issue"... well it is a minor issue, in the wider scale of things. But it is basically a slur given the quality of books he produced and with which hardly anyone seems to disagree. A minor issue - such as when i asked you why you put 'infinite' instead of 'all', power, I suppose? (and which you then joked out of the arena forum without providing an answer!)
But Leah Hirsig cleaned it all up nicely and gave us the books we have today
Leah might well have edited excellently for the 4-5 years she was closely involved with A.C. and functioned as his amanuensis. But he wrote just as "nicely" in the period before and after. As a result of the apparent lack of evidence would it be too much to admit you were mistaken here and withdraw your accusation/ criticism?
Oh how boring that would be!
It would be quite lively though if the carma of the so-called kurse came and bitcha!
Two examples. The band Eddie and the Hot Rods were the hottest thing around when punk started up. After they released their "Do Anything You Wanna Do" single complete with a pic of the Beast with Mickey Mouse ears, J Page remarked that either the curse would affect upon Eddie or he would do it (place it) on them himself - I can't remember which it was offhand, but then they disappeared almost overnight. Also remember the case of Dr Thompson, who threated to deprive A.C. of his heroin and to which A.C. replied that if he died from it, the doc would follow within 24 hours. And so it came to pass. (nb allegedly).
because there is no Baphomet -- it's a symbol.
So arguably are all god-forms. Baphomet is no less real or symbolic than Aiwaz or the Pink Sugar Fairy.
Z Joy
kidneyhawk: "Levi (who Crowley believed he WAS) said the Big B [= Baphomet] was an image of the ASTRAL LIGHT.
This has been likened to Chi/Qi and other related ideas.
A valid question would be: How is the "Astral Light" related to the Beast/Scarlet Woman dynamic?"
Does the following pertain to "Astral Light", or "Chi/Qi and other related ideas"?
Aleister Crowley's The New Comment, to his The Book of the Law, chapter 3, verse 70. ["70. I am the Hawk-Headed Lord of Silence & of Strength; my nemyss shrouds the night-blue sky."]:
"... It “shrouds the night-blue sky” because the actual light shed by the God when he is invoked is of this colour. It may also mean that he conceals Nuit. ..."
"Blue color
Reich was convinced that orgone energy gave a blue color to everything charged with it. The sky was blue because of atmospheric orgone energy. The oceans were blue because water attracts orgone. Red blood cells glimmered blue under the microscope when they were healthy and thus carried a robust orgonotic charge. PA bions were blue because they were orgone energy vesicles. Living plants were green because dead plant matter was yellow, and the blue of the living plants' orgone charge combined with the yellow color of the base material made the plant as a whole green. Certain species of frogs even turned blue during their mating season because of orgone's intimate connection with sexuality.
These assertions seem to be little more than ad-hoc-ery. The sky is not blue at night, nor is water blue when light without any blue frequencies mixed in it is shined upon it. (White light is a mixture of all frequencies of visible light, including the blue frequencies.) I address the blue "orgone" margin of healthy red blood cells in my critique of the Reich blood tests — and of course, one quickly realizes that de-oxygenated blood cells, which carry no "energy", are blue, and oxygenated blood cells are in fact red. Living plants are green because their chloroplasts contain chlorophyll and dead plants' don't; chlorophyll removed from chloroplasts is green whether it's alive or dead. And while some frogs do turn blue during their mating season, this is not a common feature among vertebrates; humans, for example, tend to turn pink, not blue, when they are sexually aroused."
(Source: A Skeptical Scrutiny of the Works and Theories of WILHELM REICH As related to The Orgone Energy Hypotheses By Roger M. Wilcox Last modified 27-April-2001 - - - http://www.rogermwilcox.com/reich/orgone_energy.htm )
And then you want to defensively change tack by diverting attention into it now being a "minor issue"... well it is a minor issue, in the wider scale of things. But it is basically a slur given the quality of books he produced and with which hardly anyone seems to disagree. A minor issue - such as when i asked you why you put 'infinite' instead of 'all', power, I suppose? (and which you then joked out of the arena forum without providing an answer!)
Okay, just feel free to dismiss everything I wrote -- I'm done cluttering up the Leah Hirsig thread with this nonsense..."Crowley curse" -- I do laugh at it.
As Leah herself, after leaving Crowley, charged:
"We need to break away from all old superstitions, and work in the clear light of Aiwaz".
Cheers,
777
"We need to break away from all old superstitions, and work in the clear light of Aiwaz".
Here we have a perfect bottom-line statement ... except for the last two words.
The Clear Light is only clear when it has no attributes, no names, etc.
"We need to break away from all old superstitions, and work in the clear light of Aiwaz".
Here we have a perfect bottom-line statement ... except for the last two words.
The Clear Light is only clear when it has no attributes, no names, etc.
It was Leah's statement after parting from Aleister -- establishing that such separation could never divide her from Aiwaz -- and I think it's perfect as is, thank you very much.
Clear Light, Blue Lights yes back to Leah, it is an interesting quote and perhaps it would be nice to know some specifics regarding "old superstitions" she might be referring to relative to AC?
"Blue color
Reich was convinced that orgone energy gave a blue color to everything charged with it. The sky was blue because of atmospheric orgone energy. The oceans were blue because water attracts orgone
The connection of Astral Light to Orgone is of interest, Wellread.
John Michael Greer, in his Intro to the new translation of Levi's Transcendental Magic, compares it to:
prana, qi, ruach, pnuema, the animus mundi, ki, ruh, emi, orenda...
He goes on to say the list could be extended almost indefinitely-and I imagine he would cheerfully welcome "orgone" in this context.
That orgone has its unique "blue" quality would also make it, as you seem to suggest, an expression of Nuit.
Greer writes:
"In speaking of the astral light and describing it as the great magical agent, the connecting link that enables magic to reach beyond the boundaries of any one mind, Levi thus places himself squarely in the mainstream of the world's magical traditions." He will go on to discuss the nature and potential of this agent.
The idea of "the connecting link that enables magic to reach beyond the boundaries of any one mind" does seem to suggest the diversity of "Stars" within the field of Nuit's body, "My joy is to see your joy" being expressed to ALL.
Now, as far as this Baphomet beaming down into earthly forms, AC took upon himself the name BAPHOMET. HE was the Big Baph Itself, not a portion of the formula awaiting 667. Ergo, if the Androgyne (and that may be how bi-sexual AC saw himself) must couple with another Androgyne (and didn't AC have his disciples dressing in drag at Cefalu?), THIS particular sex magick is evocative of the Tetragrammaton.
Between YOD/HE and VAV/HE, the SHIN of the Pentagrammaton descends like a tongue of fire.
The Pentagrammaton is the name of JESUS and the Baphometian Pentagram is a symbol for Christ (Levi sees the Goat Head as an emblem of the Scape Goat or Offering for the Sin of the People which manifests in the "Lamb of God").
Perhaps Crowley saw in this figure the Messianic implicits. If Jesus was the Avatar of the Osirian Age, then Crowley was here to shove him off the throne. A New (Nu) Baphomet with a new interpretation of the Goat, not as sacrifice for the sins of the people but as the virile and active sex force-which, as you have suggested, may be connected with Orgone, something which is not polarized but universal and cosmic.
Of course, all of this is symbolic and belongs to the realm of ideas as connected to certain planes of experience. Beyond these is the
The Clear Light
As Shiva says:
The Clear Light is only clear when it has no attributes, no names, etc.
In the works of Neville Goddard, this same notion is indicated by the name of the God of the Hebrews "I AM." This is what Neville calls the undifferentiated state of consciousness. It must proceed everything we put forward as an experiential proposition.
Before it is "I." Before that, the Luminous Void from whence such a monad may magically appear.
Aiwaz ("I was") may be a fun pun meant to put to rest the present-tense Judeo-Christian God. "You're dead, dude." But Crowley might have a hard time getting ahead of Jesus from the Book of Revelations:
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" Rev 1:8
Note: the AL-Mighty.
What thinkest thou, Wellread?
H Kokkine Gyne means "The Scarlet Woman" in Greek and numerates as 667.
Pretty strange Greek (not that i know much Greek- the language is literally Greek to me).At the very least, "H Kokkine Gyne" [aka ""ὴ κόκκινὴ γυνὴ"] is not the way "The Scarlet Woman" is referred to in Revelations 17 in Greek, not that any "Scarlet Woman" per se is mentioned in Revelations.
But there is indeed a woman (rendered as γυνὴ/gynē), "arrayed in purple and scarlet colour" (17:4, KJV), and she is "sit upon a scarlet coloured beast" (17:3), with "scarlet" in each case rendered as "κόκκινον/kokkinon". And not as "κόκκινὴ", we note.
Dwtw
In the second instance, Gynh is used, (the form for the nominative case) but in Rev 17:3 the word Gynaika is used, (the form in the accusative case).
There is no word Kokkinh in Classical Greek, nor used in the Bible, as noted. Crowley just made that up to have the 'feminine' ending of Eta, and to get his desired numeration of 667. It's not an egregious fiddling, but it has no precedent in his favorite Book of Revelation. The word should have a letter Nu at the end, and be spelled Kokkinhn, as found in Matthew 27:28 (Strong's Greek 2847).
https://biblehub.com/greek/2847.htm
If you want to use the nominative case, as AC tried to do, it probably should be:
η κοκκίνην γυνη = H KOKKINHN GYNH
This has a gematria of 717 = H Arxh - The Beginning.
In this case, instead of her title being 1 more than his, it is 1 less than the Stele of Revealing.
A different way to refer to her, using the term scarlet as an adjective, and the form of woman in the accusative case, as in the phrase "He loved the Scarlet Woman", would be
η κοκκίνην γυναῖκα = H KOKKINHN GYNAIKA
This has a gematria of 741 = Ouranon, meaning 'celestial' (literally 'heaven', or 'vault of heaven', used in accusative case). This is a word found in AC's own meager gematria dictionary of Greek, Liber 1264. This would be a nice complement to 666 being the gematria of Para Theou - 'From God'.
Using this approach, the titles of the two avatars equals 666 + 741 = 1407
1407 = Zōtikos - Full of Life, Vital (also found in Crowley's Liber 1264)
The bonus is that 741 is alluded to in Liber Legis 2:49 as the value of the Hebrew word Amen, which in turn equals the letters of the 4 Elements (Alef-Mem-Shin-Tav).
Litllwtw
O.L.
prana, qi, ruach, pnuema, the animus mundi, ki, ruh, emi, orenda...
Quantum, Scalar, Vril. That's the only three I know that you missed. But your list is longer that mine.
Crowley might have a hard time getting ahead of Jesus from the Book of Revelations:
Um, in Rev, the Rider on the White Horse (isn't it?) comes and throws the Beast back in the pit. Following that script, no beast or his reincarnation is going to get very far. But wasn't it the first Beast? I am concerned about the second ("buy-sell mark).
Note: the AL-Mighty.
This is a very cool omen, which I never detected previously.
Does anyone know the title/name of the diary wherein the Ip ceremony is cited ? Is it in a text? I seem to be missing something here besides my ...
Okay, just feel free to dismiss everything I wrote
I don't want to dismiss "everything" you wrote, as there's quite a lot I certainly agree with. I was simply querying those bits I didn't agree with - surely you wouldn't expect people here just to assent blindly to everything? I was just querying the 'nonsense' (as you put it) myself:
I'm done cluttering up the Leah Hirsig thread with this nonsense...
You seem a little irritable, a touch tetchy when all I've been doing was taking issue with your assertion A.C. was a poor writer/ speller. It's unfortunate when you make these statements but then can't seem to back them up with evidence upon further enquiry, as it's somewhat the sine qua non when debating on a forum like this. We could maybe have another separate thread just on that proposition and it might almost be worthwhile to launch one except for the fact that I don't think many other posters apart from yourself would choose to back it up.
"Crowley curse" -- I do laugh at it.
Yes, I agree, it's comforting to think it doesn't work isn't it? But as there is some evidence to show there are such things, and since A.C. himself not only believed but indulged in them, it perhaps may be best when mocking to 'laugh not <too> long'! meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum we have Israel Regardie's expostulation: "Curses? Bah! I've no time for all that adolescent gripe water!" So, each to their own and all that, and I tend to keep an open mind & sit on the fence midway between contemplating it to be coincidence or enemy action myself...
Um, in Rev, the Rider on the White Horse (isn't it?)
Erm, it was a (beholden) pale horse, Death in the saddle (since you're asking!) Close, but nil cigarillo there. I won't be a hog but let someone else chip in to help with all your other queries.
This [the AL-mighty] is a very cool omen
I'm not quite sure why - could you explain why that is, for my benefit (and any other readers that might be unsure as well)?
I seem to be missing something here besides my ...
Your sentence is seeming to run out of steam! What could this have been --- your train of thought? your back door key? part of your pre-frontal cortex? a bag of groceries?
When you find the time, could you (pretty please) possibly address the (4 or 5) 'loose ends' I raised earlier?
Maybe I should have added 'with a helping of sugar and cream on top', Shiva old bro'?! Do you maybe need any assistance with my reminding you what they were? One of them was asking whether you'd - or anyone, in fact - heard anything or had any contact with @Azid*nis, @obscuruspaintus or @ptoner out of the dozens you reported as MIA (but possibly the only known ones who have so far been and come back at least twice!) Despite our occasional differences of opinion and jousting online, I won't ever forget the first named was the first person to have given me a warm welcome on my initial arrival here, and I hope he is keeping alright himself (well all 3 of course, and however many more applicable!)
But Crowley might have a hard time getting ahead of Jesus from the Book of Revelations:
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" Rev 1:8
If we're going to start quoting verses from the Bible now, how about this one from Proverbs 3:13:
"Joyful is the one that finds wisdom, and the person who gaineth understanding",
Z Y0J
Um, in Rev, the Rider on the White Horse (isn't it?)
Erm, it was a (beholden) pale horse, Death in the saddle (since you're asking!) Close, but nil cigarillo there
Actually, Shiva HAS earned a quality cigar.
Death in the saddle is one of the "Four Horsemen" and mentioned in Rev 6:8.
The Rider on the White Horse is a different equestrian altogether and described in Rev 19:11-16
He is the "Word of God" and described in this passage in terms not altogether so different from that of Horus in AL.
From Chapter 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
I think this passage was certainly of interest to one Aleister Crowley.
If we're going to start quoting verses from the Bible now, how about this one from Proverbs 3:13:
"Joyful is the one that finds wisdom, and the person who gaineth understanding",
Splendid. Many gems are to be found in the Good Book-and even the Great Beast would agree.
Death in the saddle is one of the "Four Horsemen"
Agreed. (Not necessarily someone you'd want to bump into unexpectedly on a cold dark night)
The Rider on the White Horse is a different equestrian altogether
So it would appear (I take your word for it, not having read that part closely recently. Or at all, actually). There do seem to be quite a lot of horses and riders around, aren't there! (I wonder where all the former got/get stabled up?)
Actually, Shiva HAS earned a quality cigar
Give him a whole BOXFULL, Kyle! (I'm feeling generous)
Many gems are to be found in the Good Book-and even the Great Beast would agree.
And his dad definitely did ditto!
- In the name of the Father, (etc etc...),
Y Z0j
Death in the saddle is one of the "Four Horsemen" and mentioned in Rev 6:8.
The Rider on the White Horse is a different equestrian altogether and described in Rev 19:11-16
Yeah. Let's be Thelemic Qabalists 3=8 about it. The four horsemen are bad news. They can be assigned to the four elements, to YHWH, to to any other foursquare deal, which is hard work on the hard plain.
The rider on the White Horse has been identified as Jesus by some Christian-inclined, and as The Avatar of Synthesis, my guru, by Alice A. Bailey, which is a different thing altogether.
I never did like cigars, stinky things, and now that I'm aged, cigarettes and joints are forbidden. just give the prize to charity and remember that The Scripture says somebody's coming to save us.
Other, modern, prophets say, Nobody's coming to save you.
Go figure - then resolve the mystery.
and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
That was then. I am in possession of two names, now. The first, as mentioned is Synthesis.
The second, elaborated extensively in Avatar II, the cosmic novel-tree that is already written and awaiting publication secondary to Series D. It is Man-ji S'an, which happens to add up to 222, which is a pretty cool number for The Avatar of Synthesis. He unites by his art so that all disappear.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Surely, this is the resurrection of all the pure slain Templars.
I think this passage was certainly of interest to one Aleister Crowley.
He could not have missed it ... but I don't remember reading his reaction, or his commentary, or anything.
There do seem to be quite a lot of horses and riders
Yeah ...
.
In the name of the Father
YHWH