It's a paraphrase (she didn't say "Aiwaz"),
Okay. Though I find it hard to conceive parapharasing this without using Aiwaz or Aiwass (a term that never shows up in the searchable diaries I have - although some I only have as a xerox). The author of Liber L?
from the first letter to Crowley, I think.
Definetely not the first, this says: "I hereby renounce the title The Scarlet Woman and pass it on to the "Scarlet Concubine of his desire", the daughter of Babalon." 😉
I think all that stuff got published in the recent book, Three Chapters in My Life by Jon Lange.
Will check there. Though I really don't know how you two write a book about her and not have all these sources around constantly.
Here are some other interesting quotes from Hirsig following her independence.
Showing her determination to continue working in the G.'.W.'.B.'., of which she was a M.'.T.'.:
"I shall develop my own path." (Sept.21, 1924)
"Remember that Alostrael, Babalon, the Scarlet Woman, lives forever. Leah Hirsig dies but then I never knew her." (Sept.26, 1924)
"Understand that ye are not to think that Aleister Crowley deserted me. He did not. He liberated me." (Sept.26, 1924)
Yes, I know where you are coming from. I am looking forward to your book and sincerely hope it will not be too biased. When I am reading her stuff, I sometimes get the feeling that she could very well have been quite delusional about her status and some of the stuff is really quite off, like that about the role of Woman in Thelema. It is all quite fascinating nonetheless and full of little side-information, like that about the location of the Liber L manuscript at that time. Just hope you don't make us wait too long.
Cheers.
Definetely not the first, this says: "I hereby renounce the title The Scarlet Woman and pass it on to the "Scarlet Concubine of his desire", the daughter of Babalon."
It was the really scathing letter, in which she criticizes him -- the letter in which she says that he's foolish for following gods, as Thelemites are the gods. I can't find the diary, however. My memory is bad since the stroke.
I think all that stuff got published in the recent book, Three Chapters in My Life by Jon Lange.
Will check there. Though I really don't know how you two write a book about her and not have all these sources around constantly.
We have the Jon Lange book, and it shows how truly independent she was. E.g., Note that, on p.3 of his book, Jon Lange writes:
"Her view of a successor, as we shall see, may be interpreted as her attempt to establish a traditional basis for the Scarlet Woman's Authority, thereby lessening its dependence on romantic-sexual proximity to Crowley."
Just to be clear: Aliana (and she alone) is the author of this book; and she has her own computer and materials.
Yes, I know where you are coming from. I am looking forward to your book and sincerely hope it will not be too biased. When I am reading her stuff, I sometimes get the feeling that she could very well have been quite delusional about her status and some of the stuff is really quite off, like that about the role of Woman in Thelema. It is all quite fascinating nonetheless and full of little side-information, like that about the location of the Liber L manuscript at that time. Just hope you don't make us wait too long.
It is going to be a really large book; I would say sometime around early next year to early summer and it should be done.
Aliana is a woman, after all, but she is also level-headed; and she loves Therion as much as Babalon.
The title of the book is Gospel of Dead Souls.
93 be with thee,
777
Now, I didn't quite say it as such, did I?
I thought so. By "practical," I am referring to how-to-do-it, which I mentioned in response ro JB's remark about Grant not producing Class D-type Libers, and such. How you got dragged into it, I don't know, but I will now go looking ...
[break - slow - AI searchers not available]
the Typhonian Trilogies they certainly seem devoid of any type of AA Class D 'how-to' instructive material
KH replies: They were never meant to be "instruction manuals" or "recipe books"
Yes. This is what I referred to, under your name, as "practical."
I will grant you that a certain practicality can be gained from reading un-practical prose. I am reminded of The Wake World, which is just a silly Jack-and-the Beanstalk tale ... which is capable of rendering the mush-brain o9f the beginner into a Zen-like appreciation of how to use the Tree.
but I will add that I do not see either author/guide/teacher as floating about for the "advanced crowd" who learned "how to" from previous sources.
I have come to some conclusions regarding the Path described in One Star. The Path described is correct. It corresponds with other systems that describe the grades and the tasks in the same order. The grades are well described - the rhetoric regarding personas and who is in charge, and who must do something or another, can be avoided or examined closely for control issues.
Using this stripped-down One Star, we find that the aspirant in the Outer Order will advance most quickly if they just do to work, pass the tests ... etc. Yes, do as I say and don't worry about what anybody else is doing.
There are exactly 1000 Outer Orders (a metaphorical number for many), and the usually have how-tos, and if anybody gets to talk to their Angel or attains to Nirvana (temporary episodes accepted), then they could be considered advanced, and so why would they need the basic practices of anyone?
In terms of One Star, it is not only my own experience, but also that of others, that once in the Inner Order, one may not be under the A.'.A.'. anymore in an exoteric manner, because the Inner Order has no name and it's not on the physical plane except when one or more individuals are radiating from higher levels, and this is temporary ... dur to the fact that the participants must depart in order to chop water or die.
You are correct. Buddhists and Christians. possibly Hindus, who have learned how to get out (at least past Paroketh) are liable to have degraded images in their mind of Crowley, Grant, and even our aunt, HPB.
Both writers speak to a depth within the human Being(ness) which can trigger a resonance or response even if the reasoning mind is baffled and befuddled. If that Depth-Being is stirred and begins to wink and blink, it will begin to find the "practical instruction" it needs.
Right. You are referring to so-called Oral Transmissions, which can be written (though less powerful than hearing in-person if the speaker is on track). The successful (not in $) author will, by his/her genius and not by mental erection, triggers, as you note. Every Page is a Talisman is one reference I have heard.
As UG tells us, You have to quit all other paths in order to find your own path, he gets around to supernal-type references.
Ergo, if anyone is so drawn in, I would encourage exploring the worlds of Grant (and Bailey), even if they seem incomprehensible.
This is the same thing that (almost) anyone encounters when they pick up, or are handed, their first (maybe more) Crowley book. Personally, I had no comprehension issues when I picked up Bailey. But I got one of the two (out of 20) books where she didn't fiddle much with it. I did not find Grant incomprehensible - I actually recommended it (the works) to others, but I found nothing therein to dwell upon.
You mention so drawn in, and now we come to why anyone in their correct mentat, or even deranged, would be drawn to one author or paradigm, or another. Bailey tells us clearly:
It depends on your Ray
Since Rays were not covered in any fashion in the Crowley literature, nor in Grant5's of which I* am aware, one is either drawn in to examine this concept , or not. If not, it would be a mistake to poo-poo the concept (without experience). The same goes for all paradigms and Paths. Ch 3 is adamant about how these other systems are to be ground underfoot, and we are also told that all words are true along with their prophets who are missing something. We are not told that AL: itself is missing something,, but we are given a hint ... a factor infinite and unknown.
all of us are immortal.
Please state that this is your opinion, or if you have proof or valid references.
There is a lot of objective evidence that everybody and all things are mortal and subject to decay.
If one follows the cells break down into molecules that form new life, that is very scientific, but it is rather disgusting to an entity that wishes to remain intact.
If one follows the reincarnating Soul maneuver, then yeah there is immortality until one departs the outer gate of the Chesed Inn and Restaurant. This is an element in a belief system.
Fate or destiny is simply the path of necessity; and necessity varies per individual
Well, yes. There is also the concept, espoused by both ancient Chinese Medical Philosophy, and more modern DNA theory, and Olden Hindu precepts about Karma ... that these are all "destiny." Passing through life out of necessity is certainly a factor. If we try to change our circumstances, the overcome necessity in favor of a grander vision, and we succeed, we are said to be Doing Our Will (which is us being a vehicle for the universal Will).
But if we try to change our circumstances, and things don't work out, then (obviously) this is wishful thinking and you better get back to discovering your (its) Will ... or suffer some more, as Go-tama tolod us.
was she the "greatest" Scarlet Woman? None of them was, as each had her unique qualities.
Right. Yet we should grant her some special unique status as she held the Office at Cefalu, the prototype for the communities of the new Aeon, where the last and final degree of Perdurabo was enacted.
The prototype concept might me further discussed in a new threadn ... among those who do not particularly want to live under Cefalu conditions.
I suggested that there are many reasons why one would renounce such a checkered past.
And Bailey confirms one of them as being an absolute necessity at a higher Initiation.
It may be self-published, but that's better than not at all.
In the beginning (2007), I was taken anboard the ship Weiser Antiquarian and put in a chamber called Teitan Press. I was initiated into book publishing (on a big-time professional level. This process took 6 months. This project made me famous, or infamous, as the reader may determine.
Then it came time (5 years later) to run-up the second printing ... but that was not to be as Teitan was now back-up with projects and I would have to Waite.
I said, "Frater Shiva does not wait in line. I will write it and self-publish it, and you can distribute it if you like." Which is exactly what he did. I then had 6 books run through Weiser distribution, after which I was told that they were "looking for less work, not more."
I then continued writing and self-publishing. My books were not typeset to the infinitely-anal requirements of global distribution at Lulu, and thus get included in Amazon, Barnes et Noble, etc. But the independent bookstores got wind of my works, and the basic tesxts are now on Amazon. Last month, 18 books were sold.
RTC consulted with me, back when we actually talked like fellow brethren and normal human beings at the same time, about using the sel-publisher Lulu, which I advised him to use as it was easy, but to avoid Create Space as it was a shill for the big guys and demanded anally-derived typesetting procedures (if their AI detects any deviation in text or picture resolution, they will refuse to print it. RTC went to Lulu, self-published Liber Bogus, and this apparently caused him to lose his sanity.
I tell you all this as I am recommending Lulu and avoiding any looking for a publisher crap. Lulu is completely free to enroll and publish. You are expected to buy a proof copy, but not so required! I usually get a copy of everything, not for proofing, as that has already been done.
Enroll here: https://www.lulu.com/
Start a project. Pick you size, paper ink. The size is important as you must then type your manuscript to that size. You must then convert it to a pdf and submit it, with a cover. I do this in my sleep these days, at 3 or 4 am, so if you have any trouble, and since LAShTAL is not a teaching site, just ask and I will give you an email address where we can get you through the pylons.
@aleisterion You have a good title at least! One year to wait seems to be managable I think. If you need anything, let me know. I have a few letters of her written NOT as AC's secretary, also Mr. Tränker's long lost account of AC's time in Weida (poorly written in German but with lots of information) where Leah is nearly not mentioned at all (besides having moved in with Mudd at Germer's), but where she is quoted as "being out of her mind during the time with Therion" in 1926, when also Mudd renounced AC. Since we do not have private messages anymore you can - if you feel so - publish a mail address here or can reach me (I am an open book as everybody knows) at lutz(at)lutzlemke.de
P.S. I also had found her earliest mention as "Alostrael" which I gave to Manon Hedenborg White, since she didn't have it.
I find it very interesting that it was Leah Hirsig who came up with the notion that the Scarlet Woman (667) was the vehicle of Babalon just as Crowley was the vehicle of the Beast (666) -- an idea which Crowley rejected, even though it seems to square well with Liber Legis and portions of The Vision & the Voice.
I find it very interesting that it was Leah Hirsig who came up with the notion that the Scarlet Woman (667) was the vehicle of Babalon just as Crowley was the vehicle of the Beast (666) -- an idea which Crowley rejected, even though it seems to square well with Liber Legis and portions of The Vision & the Voice.
Can you point us to a source? I read most of this many years ago and I do not remember that (I certainly did not find it in the stuff that I reread recently). I remember that in Cefalu she was highly beast-centered (like in praise to our Lord the Beast or something like this). But it was years ago. Again, do you have a source for this, mainly that AC rejected it? Thnaks.
Can you point us to a source? I read most of this many years ago and I do not remember that (I certainly did not find it in the stuff that I reread recently). I remember that in Cefalu she was highly beast-centered (like in praise to our Lord the Beast or something like this). But it was years ago. Again, do you have a source for this, mainly that AC rejected it? Thnaks.
Sure! I was just reading it in the book I mentioned by Jon Lange; this is the first chance I've had to read it.
In multiple diary entries, as you know, she proclaimed "I am Babalon"; as in that of Sept.21, 1924, "This diary is...of one who knows herself as Babalon".
Lange writes:
"Leah has identified herself with the goddess of the Thelemic pantheon, Babalon, who is supreme...The title of Scarlet Woman had to be transferred voluntarily, so that there was a line of succession, and according to Leah, the authority of a Scarlet Woman was contingent on the approval of the old one, i.e. her. When she herself was elevated to that office, it strengthened her position in the Thelemic movement. With it she assumed several notable titles, including Grand Secretary General of the O.T.O., 8=3 or Magister Templi, Praemonstratrix of A.'.A.'., and was one of the few who were authorized to reconstitute the Order of Thelemites, a third organizational structure, should Crowley die whilst in office. Soon inherently she believed she had some considerable authority, which obviously she was reluctant to relinquish...His Djeridensis Comment (see below, p.118) clarifies the position of the Scarlet Woman as "any woman that transmits my Solar Word and Being." This would suggest that they have to be in close proximity to him, actively working alongside him, and not removed from him, or dropped, or relegated, etc., which is what Leah had been reduced to. Her view of a successor, as we shall see, may be interpreted as her attempt to establish a traditional basis for the Scarlet Woman's authority."
Then, Lange goes on to write:
"She [Leah] had already questioned why a Scarlet Woman could not be "as unique and designated an individual as he and not by him to be deposed." (See her Cefalu Diaries (2017), p.84) Further, Leah's attempt to contest his right to depose the Scarlet Woman on a whim was seen by him as questioning his authority."
All of the above was on page 3 of the book by Lange.
As an added bonus, here's yet another picture of Aliana:
Cheers,
777
Thanks. So far this sounds like personal interpretations to me but now I know where to look further. Thanks (again). My own recollections are more on the lines of "You can't just leave me, Therion", "I wanna die", "I need money", "My son has been stolen", "I love you, Therion", "I hate the new Scarlet Woman", "I love the new Scarlet Woman" etc. and then just to act as a AC's official secretary again a few months later ... in short, much more human and wounded and disturbed and in shock and taking responsibilty for AC's stuff in Paris and at times in very high and very low spirits, but yes, always remembering the Great Work. But I will look into the material again thanks.
Thanks for the new Aliana pic, too bad that I absolutely hate the Photoshop lens flare 😀 , but that's a totally personal thing (I work in this field and have hated it for decades, just like RTC's and - sorry to say - Shiva's taste in design). Apart from that, she seems splendidly alright!
It was the really scathing letter, in which she criticizes him -- the letter in which she says that he's foolish for following gods, as Thelemites are the gods.
I know, it was an UNFINISHED and UNSENT letter:
"Paris, Oct.26, 1924e.v.
Care Frater,
Again, I take letters etc. as they come and quite regardless of dates.
1. Telegram - I knew about the ruby ring before I got it but what does "HANS CAPUEL" mean ?
2. P.C. - W.E. "I will give you a war engine". Mind your own business - Part of the war engine at present is 'the look of a Magician". We are merely preparing for the war to come - The idea of the W.E. is like everything else; one must get it gradually in whatever form one needs it. You cannot take the injunctions literally (not yet) and all will come in time.
Re. Hag. London is probably terribly tied up.Please do not communicate directly with any outside Aumont and Ninette if you wish to get things going and remember that now time is longer means hour or day - Also, I object to the terms "The Gods" - it should be "Gods" which means Thelemites. We need to break away from all old superstitions etc. etc. and work in the clear light of Ra-Hooir-Khuit. This brings me to the next letter where you say if this and so hadn't happened, if O.P.V. had done this and that etc. etc. You yourself said we must start on new lines. Every error made so far has helped to push us to the something which seems humanly impossible."
This is one of a few unfinished unsent letters she wrote (the one before starting with "To Sir Aleister Crowley! Edward Alexander Crowley Esq. To Mega Therion and all the Rest. Saluti. The Sir means as little to me as "Lord" Beaverbrock" - Aleister is a mere wish phantom [...] You seem to disregard all Holy books etc. in your sexual stupidity [...] If you can find a filthier female to represent Babalon (myself, thank you) at the moment, do so. [...] I find that I too have any number of things to say to you but am not nearly angry or interested enough to say them. I don't suppose I ever will be and they will keep till you recover.")
While she doesn't say he is "foolish", just that she objects to the term, it should be noted that "THE Gods" are used by her probably three dozen times or more before that letter in her diary.
All I want to say is, that this (all her diaries of that period) doesn't sound like critique, philosophy, or anything near of clear thinking. It just shows how really pissed she was at the Beast and Dorothy - and with good reason! To make such a statement become HER attitude from an unfinished unsent letter seems to be a bit over the top.
To me the diaries of this period are really heartbreaking, but also very passive aggressive in always seemingly accepting the new Scarlet Woman Dorothy Olsen while at the same time claiming that she herself always was the "best" and "only" Scarlet Woman and Babalon.
Just a few months later she found herself to be AC's devoted secretary again claiming nothing and without any commands.
I know that this sounds all rather harsh to you and I really do exaggerate, so that you take all this into account when writing about her. You see, nobody needs a biased Leah hagiography, we want facts. So please account for any possible critique, I really mean this in a fraternal way.
Cheers.
Sorry for the double post.
"Also, I object to the terms "The Gods" - it should be "Gods" which means Thelemites. We need to break away from all old superstitions etc. etc. and work in the clear light of Ra-Hoor-Khuit"
Just an afterthought: Do not use the term THE Gods but work in the clear light of RHK? What is RHK then? Not a God but just a deity or something? Or just a Thelemite? Again, I do not think she was thinking straight when she wrote this.
Just an afterthought: Do not use the term THE Gods but work in the clear light of RHK? What is RHK then? Not a God but just a deity or something? Or just a Thelemite? Again, I do not think she was thinking straight when she wrote this.
Yet on a supernal level, there is no temporal limitation; and our AQBL (Angloqabalah), wherein A=1 thru Z=26, holds Ra-Hoor-Khuit (144) to be of the same numeration as Shaitan-Aiwass. I've translated the whole of Liber Legis into number by this English system of gematria.
That's it though -- no more gematria out of me in this thread. No, I'm not so insane to think that Leah Hirsig somehow, on some level, knew this; but the fact that it comes out that way, a century later, is interesting.
but the fact that it comes out that way, a century later, is interesting.
What exactly do you mean by this? That RHK is Shaitan-Aiwass? I didn't check, but where is the exact relation to Leah here? Note: she seemingly never mentioned Aiwass.
What exactly do you mean by this? That RHK is Shaitan-Aiwass?
Of course not; but I definitely do not accept that Shaitan-Aiwass is merely a personal angel, as Crowley believed.
I didn't check, but where is the exact relation to Leah here?
Leah is the only Scarlet Woman, as far as I know, to have copulated with Aiwaz (multiple times).
Note: she seemingly never mentioned Aiwass.
Correct.
Leah is the only Scarlet Woman, as far as I know, to have copulated with Aiwaz (multiple times).
Well, we need a source for this one, but I have got to bed now. That shouldn't hinder you from providing a source. Cheers.
Leah is the only Scarlet Woman, as far as I know, to have copulated with Aiwaz (multiple times).
Well, we need a source for this one, but I have got to bed now. That shouldn't hinder you from providing a source. Cheers.
Here's a nice Thelemic bedtime story for you! from King of the Shadow Realm, p.266:
"Yes," replied Alostrael. "He is sitting on the floor, dressed in black."
"Well, ride him again!" commanded the Beast.
Alostrael promptly had intercourse with Aiwass (Set or Satan) "that He may incarnate in our next Bastard (i.e. Crowley and Leah's next child would be Aiwass incarnated).
And so on, through the night.
Sometimes the crystal was dispensed with. The Beast lay on his back, the stem of his long Chinese opium pipe in his mouth, and gazed into the darkness. After awhile he would pass the pipe to Leah. "For Lust's sake, let us lust, for Smoke's sake, let us smoke!"
Somnolently she told him what she saw. "Outlines, birds, flowers, wheat in sheaves, stars, lamps, et cetera.
"Their colour?" asked the Beast.
"Yellow, and blue...the blue predominating brighter than the yellow which fades away."
"Invoke Aiwass," he urged.
She pronounced the sacred name of Crowley's Holy Guardian Angel, and with her free hand made the sign of the Cabbalistic Cross.
The vision grew cloudy; in place of foliage and birds came landscapes, buildings, a palace, a whole town with red roofs.
"Reject everything but Aiwass," instructed the Beast.
Ruins appeared and in the middle of them a long passage leading to a door; then the mighty arm of Aiwass swept across the vision, hurling everything away till nothing remained but this enormous swinging arm.
"Is this His message?" asked Crowley.
"His left eye appears, like a Tibetan mandala, all colours, dazzling. Amid the concentric rings is the pupil of azure light, said Leah, "It turns into a flower, the eternal lotus; then a radiant blue cross, and within it, a circle."
"How do you know it is Aiwass?"
A black hand was the answer, the nails long and pointed, the fingers bejewelled; this was like Crowley's own vision of Aiwass.
Sweet Dreams,
777
Here's a nice Thelemic bedtime story for you! from King of the Shadow Realm, p.266:
"Yes," replied Alostrael. "He is sitting on the floor, dressed in black."
"Well, ride him again!" commanded the Beast.
Alostrael promptly had intercourse with Aiwass (Set or Satan) "that He may incarnate in our next Bastard (i.e. Crowley and Leah's next child would be Aiwass incarnated).
And so on, through the night.
Sometimes the crystal was dispensed with. The Beast lay on his back, the stem of his long Chinese opium pipe in his mouth, and gazed into the darkness. After awhile he would pass the pipe to Leah. "For Lust's sake, let us lust, for Smoke's sake, let us smoke!"
Somnolently she told him what she saw. "Outlines, birds, flowers, wheat in sheaves, stars, lamps, et cetera.
"Their colour?" asked the Beast.
"Yellow, and blue...the blue predominating brighter than the yellow which fades away."
"Invoke Aiwass," he urged.
She pronounced the sacred name of Crowley's Holy Guardian Angel, and with her free hand made the sign of the Cabbalistic Cross.
The vision grew cloudy; in place of foliage and birds came landscapes, buildings, a palace, a whole town with red roofs.
"Reject everything but Aiwass," instructed the Beast.
Ruins appeared and in the middle of them a long passage leading to a door; then the mighty arm of Aiwass swept across the vision, hurling everything away till nothing remained but this enormous swinging arm.
"Is this His message?" asked Crowley.
"His left eye appears, like a Tibetan mandala, all colours, dazzling. Amid the concentric rings is the pupil of azure light, said Leah, "It turns into a flower, the eternal lotus; then a radiant blue cross, and within it, a circle."
"How do you know it is Aiwass?"
A black hand was the answer, the nails long and pointed, the fingers bejewelled; this was like Crowley's own vision of Aiwass.
Sweet Dreams,
777
You know, as no stranger to work with mediums or this line of operation, I find this "record" to be quite prosaic. I've been in this same space dozens of times-with the same kind of "messaging."
It's all very exciting, I'll grant you that. Especially when you are doing this sort of thing and under the influence of whatever, sexually aroused, focused in and on what Robert Anton Wilson would call a Neuro-Semantic Reality Tunnel.
But get some distance and you might even be more disinterested than disgusted over the failure of "playtime" to deliver anything substantial.
"His left eye appears, like a Tibetan mandala, all colours, dazzling. Amid the concentric rings is the pupil of azure light, said Leah, "It turns into a flower, the eternal lotus; then a radiant blue cross, and within it, a circle."
I've been through this kind of garbage many times. The above says absolutely nothing-although I have no doubt that Leah was "getting impressions."
DaVinci would draw images from a wall where drunks would spew their vomit. This is the same idea as seeing images in the clouds. Crowley and his Followers will, no doubt, find meaning in Leah's "visions." But I'm not in the slightest impressed. Esp. after having experienced telepathic communications through a medium which, impressive as they were from an ESP point, failed to deliver anything of value or meaning to the Great Work itself.
"Alostrael promptly had intercourse with Aiwass (Set or Satan) "that He may incarnate in our next Bastard (i.e. Crowley and Leah's next child would be Aiwass incarnated)."
Well, that didn't work out too well, did it?
"Success is thy proof."
The opposite? Perhaps that is a corrective.
Or a rebuke.
The generally excellent index contains zero mention of any "Ape of Tahuti". It does include "Ape of Thoth
Well, that's good enough for me! And hopefully for Aleisterion too.
Aleisterion, your comments about A.C.'s references to Leah as the Ape of Tahuti are (sigh!) <also> incorrect. Now, as I also put it to you, were AC's references to her as this (=the Ape) therefore intended to be derogatory, or jokey, or perhaps in some way quite literal, or what?
I had to take the bait. Couldn't help myself.
Careful, Kyle, your idolatory is showing! 😆 (of course you will deny this, but accuse Aleisterion of (almost!) the same thing with regard to his elevating Leah to the pedestal of Can-Do-No-Wrong.
This is certainly not the thread to get sidetracked into discussing this in depth as I said earlier, and I was contemplating not responding to these multiple points at all. But I was thinking of maybe doing a thread on this or similar matters, but the time did (does) not feel right at present to do so. However I already began a thread on KG some while ago on matters not too far removed (well it was on KG and kundalini, actually) to which anybody has still yet to reply. We could maybe continue something there (q.v.) before that other time arises.
I'm not against KG " mixing it up" even in ritual terms but not when confusion can arise about historical "facts" re which, what trust can anybody then put in anything once we start to go down that path? Cf. Elron Hub and his "Xenu" history of human development, etc.
I think he already sold all the material already and now it's being offered on the second hand market.
Surely it's all "second hand" after a basic point and especially after the books have already exchanged hands more than once? So it's all sold already eh? (*imagine a snorting noise*) Well it just goes to show, what !?
Yes, you describe the process of slowing thought, which is usually prerequisite to stop, although that one (a full stop), would be reserved for Magisters and jum-claimers.
The interesting thing is what causes it to all start up again. In meditation for example, I may find that the process of slowing/ stopping thought would be working very well - up to the point when (I) start congratulating (myself) on how doggone well (I) seem to be doing, which precipitates it all going again more often than not and does so more than anything else (more than 93% of the time, I have found). Does anyone else find it more so with anything else?
Sometimes it seems like the jumpers are still thinking.
Indubitably!
There was no separation of consciousness between any levels. Everything wasb balanced and the balance flowed.
You're referring to a constant dynamic balance (i.e. a process of adjustment) I take it, the mid-point of an oscillation twixt the 2 extremities of eg Mercy & Severity with Tiph being the central pillar, if you will.
As a matter of fact, I don't know anybody who ever used that greeting, except formally, in a rite, or before a meal.
The point being that Patriarch seemed to be using this as a tool of judgement regarding Leah's loyalty to the cause whereas it is simply an affectation.
Nobody in their right mind will use the Greeting in public or at the doctor's office or in court.
I think originally the idea was only to use it between fellow Thelemites (male or female) rather than anyone in the public realm? (=open to correction here)
So much for that nonsense.
But, as ever, there is the over-riding principle "There is no law beyond Do What Thou Wilt". Even if it's an instruction, from Therion or Aiwass, if it appears to go against your true will you are entitled to & have the right to point-blank refuse.
Yes. I am in contact with Fr.'. Elite. I would not expect anything soon.
That sounds ominous! Hopefully the vehicle is running well and in good order...
I believe that this is why Crowley in his extenuation on the Book of the Law III:52, points out that the sexual act is symbolic of the miracle of the mass, and not as many IME erroneously assume, the other way around.
I cannot see the relevance of this verse here at all ("I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him"). Is this a typo?
What is your opinion as to why Fate decreed she was no longer A.C.'s S.W.?
@Aleisterion: Fate or destiny is simply the path of necessity; and necessity varies per individual.
So isn't it simply a case, then, of A.C. getting tired of Leah and moving on to fresh fields to furrow, as it were - and if he wasn't so horny/ had such a high sex drive he might have stayed with her longer? Was it her fault simply because she was no longer capable and up to the job of stimulating him?
Aliana just gave me the go-ahead to reveal more info about the book. She is confident that, no matter what they know, they'll want to read this. It's just that good.
This seems to be saying rather a lot considering hardly anything (if at all) has yet been written!
Here, by the way, is the author, Soror Aliana
Out of curiosity, are these recent photos?
Too bad that you always seem to be away of your sources.
Yes, I agree. Terrible, isn't it! My commiserations...
I read some Leah Hirsig stuff during the last weeks and I do not remember her saying this, even paraphrased. Anybody else?
Noo, I don't recall this at all.
I am going to take a break here as the gremlins seem to be out and about tonight and despite taking precautions, the whole of my reply on the Marxism thread vanished into the ether which will take a good hour to replace (but not tonite tho!)
To be continued later
N Joy
The generally excellent index contains zero mention of any "Ape of Tahuti". It does include "Ape of Thoth
Well, that's good enough for me! And hopefully for Aleisterion too.
Aleisterion, your comments about A.C.'s references to Leah as the Ape of Tahuti are (sigh!) <also> incorrect.
Oh my god, how ridiculous can you be?! "If Crowley didn't say it, it ain't true!" Thoth=Tahuti. So no, I'm not at all "incorrect". Congrats, Jamie, you've made it to my circular file. I've no interest in further discussions with you.
Well, that didn't work out too well, did it?
"Success is thy proof."
The opposite? Perhaps that is a corrective.
Or a rebuke.
If you and the gang say so...then it must be so.
Hey listen, the book is coming...if you like, you're welcome to read it. If not, well, that's okay too. Aliana and I wish you well anyway.
Cheers,
777
The title of the book is Gospel of Dead Souls.
After the well -known reference, naturally. But you had/have yet to answer my earlier (general) query a while back, as to why she chose those words to A.C. to begin with (q.v.). Seeing as how it is now going to feature so prominently in the title, would it be asking too much to get a proper, full answer to it - even if it's only your (and/or Aliana's) subjective opinion/s?
There are exactly 1000 Outer Orders (a metaphorical number for many)
You're definitely sure it's not 1,001 then?
Lange writes:
"The title of Scarlet Woman had to be transferred voluntarily, so that there was a line of succession, and according to Leah, the authority of a Scarlet Woman was contingent on the approval of the old one, i.e. her.
So did Leah herself succeed the office of S.W. from her predecessor upon the approval of the old one? I think not...
With it she assumed several notable titles, including Grand Secretary General of the O.T.O., 8=3 or Magister Templi, Praemonstratrix of A.'.A.'.
I did not know she (or anyone in that position) could just "assume" 8=3 or M.T.?...
Further, Leah's attempt to contest his right to depose the Scarlet Woman on a whim was seen by him as questioning his authority."
Now, there's a surprise!
All I want to say is, that this (all her diaries of that period) doesn't sound like critique, philosophy, or anything near of clear thinking. It just shows how really pissed she was at the Beast and Dorothy - and with good reason! To make such a statement become HER attitude from an unfinished unsent letter seems to be a bit over the top.
To me the diaries of this period are really heartbreaking, but also very passive aggressive in always seemingly accepting the new Scarlet Woman Dorothy Olsen while at the same time claiming that she herself always was the "best" and "only" Scarlet Woman and Babalon.
Do not use the term THE Gods but work in the clear light of RHK? What is RHK then? Not a God but just a deity or something? Or just a Thelemite? Again, I do not think she was thinking straight when she wrote this.
Agreed Somewhat 'bipolar' in fact throughout.
I've translated the whole of Liber Legis into number by this English system of gematria.
But to what possible end? (I thought you weren't particularly a QBLH fiend?!?)
Here's a nice Thelemic bedtime story for you! from King of the Shadow Realm, p.266:
So it's arrived safely now then?!
Crowley and his Followers will, no doubt, find meaning in Leah's "visions." But I'm not in the slightest impressed.
Ditto the Amalantrah Working and all other similar Pythoness-skrying efforts, presumably?
"Alostrael promptly had intercourse with Aiwass (Set or Satan) "that He may incarnate in our next Bastard (i.e. Crowley and Leah's next child would be Aiwass incarnated)."
Bastard?? In other words, their little boy or little girl. The "B"-word is just to get on the tits of any reader whose straightforward, conventional (Sunday schoolish/ Christian) morality would proceed to get uptight about it. Rather unnecessary though for the rest (the already "converted")...
Or a rebuke.
From "The Gods" for their presumption (presumably)?
A cautionary tale: Take heed, all those for whom hubris might affect!
Finis for now,
N Joy:
Oh my god, how ridiculous can you be?! "If Crowley didn't say it, it ain't true!"
This discussion is not about whether or not Leah was in fact a literal ape, but about a nickname bestowed upon her by AC.
So, put simply, "[i]f Crowley didn't say it", it, in fact, wasn't her nickname. And, at least in the Hag, he never mentioned any "Ape of Tahuti", only "the Ape of Thoth" (once), and "the Ape" (the rest of the rime).
I know your post was directed at JB, not me, but who else was going to call Leah the "Ape of Tahuti", if not AC?
I know your post was directed at JB, not me, but who else was going to call Leah the "Ape of Tahuti", if not AC?
The whole point is that Thoth is Tahuti. Of course the actual Magical Title is Ape of Thoth, not Ape of Tahuti; but they are one and the same deity.
You, a few days ago:
Leah Hirsig's magical name was Alostrael (31-666-31); and her title was "The Ape of Tahuti" (i.e. Thoth).
You today:
Of course the actual Magical Title is Ape of Thoth, not Ape of Tahuti
Emphasis added in both. You seem to be in the habit of making claims that aren't actually true, and then engaging in all sorts of equivocation and pseudo-justification when you get caught talking out the side of your neck..
You do recognize that the two statements i have just quoted contradict each other, right?
Presumably, if you stick to your track record, you will now claim that distinguishing between "Ape of Thoth" and "Ape of Tahuti" is just ridiculous hair-splitting quibbling, ignoring the fact that the claimed distinction, and the claim that one is correct and the other wrong, is your claim (that now turns out to be backwards).
Presumably, if you stick to your track record, you will now claim that distinguishing between "Ape of Thoth" and "Ape of Tahuti" is just ridiculous hair-splitting quibbling, ignoring the fact that the claimed distinction, and the claim that one is correct and the other wrong, is your claim (that now turns out to be backwards).
It's but a minor issue, to be sure. Let's be honest here, why would you get so upset over this? Think about it: if someone says "Horus" instead of "Ra-hoor-khuit", do you get this upset?
I had a friend over once who confided in me that there was one time that he thought he witnessed "To Mega"...I knew the reference, so I didn't split hairs as you're doing.
But hey, okay, fine...anyhow, I'm not the author of this book on Leah Hirsig and two of her children. Aliana is the writer of this, and I'm sure she doesn't plan to use the phrase "Ape of Tahuti" (I've never even heard her say it).
Anyway, the same thing I said to Kidneyhawk applies to you: you're more than welcome to read this masterpiece when it comes out (it's about three chapters in, and I can already see it). I hope everyone does -- not for money, not for fame, but for Aliana, because I love her and she deserves this.
Money and fame? Puh-leeze!! Not much of either can come from this niche market. No; this work comes from Anna's heart.
Cheers,
777
I didn't split hairs as you're doing.
Do you see anything kinda funny about you quoting my prediction that you, having raised the issue in the first place, will respond to being corrected by accusing anyone correcting you of "ridiculous hair-splitting quibbling'', in your post that responds to being corrected by accusing those correcting you of "split[ting] hairs"?
[W]hy would you get so upset over this?
I can assure you that your worries are misplaced. I promise you that i am not even a little tiny bit "upset" at your repeated posting of fantasy material about Ms. Hirsig, or at your your difficulty in admitting it when you get caught doing so.
I'm not the author of this book on Leah Hirsig and two of her children.
No one is actually the author of any books at all until a book is actually published, or, at the very least, actually written.
You are, however, the person who is repeatedly posting here making claims about content that you say will be included in this book, when, and if, it is actually written. These claims keep turning out to be not true.
So, as far as this forum goes, you are the one making these false claims, not the non-posting Aliana.
If you and the gang say so...then it must be so.
Not necessarily so. But this is an evasive reply. Instead of addressing the substance of what I wrote, you are making implication of an attitude of superiority which cannot be reasoned with...and walking, virtuously, away from it.
Hey listen, the book is coming
This is good news!
if you like, you're welcome to read it. If not, well, that's okay too
Please do not forget: I wrote above that I would be happy to talk about some publishing ideas for you both if you get a hold of me offline. To be clear, I'm buying the book, my friend! Esp. after our extensive thread here. Whether I agree or disagree with points made is beside the point. When I purchase books these days, I want to enjoy them-and I will enjoy this one even if I react from a critical stance.
Aliana and I wish you well anyway.
I wish you both well AL-WAYS. Please remember, my words are never an attack on YOU. We are in a dialogue tumbling at times into debate. We "fight as Brothers." And perhaps this very thread, with its many perspectives, may lend some influence to the finalizing of Aliana's book.
The_real_simon_iff: "I am sure some day there will be a biography of this astounding woman - or so she seems already from the little we know, which is more than from most of the other of Crowley's Scarlet Women. I think she was a lot more to him than the current occupant of this important office."
With respect to the known initiatory path[-s] of the Scarlet women within Aleister Crowley's Thelema, is Leah Hirsig the one among them with the most successful known track record?
If you and the gang say so...then it must be so.
Not necessarily so. But this is an evasive reply. Instead of addressing the substance of what I wrote, you are making implication of an attitude of superiority which cannot be reasoned with...and walking, virtuously, away from it.
I'm sorry, it seems I misunderstood your post. Just like me to be so idiotic: again, I'm so sorry.
Hey listen, the book is coming
This is good news!
Anna and I both took Oaths to finish this. That's Aliana's name, by the way, Anna Evans.
To be clear, I'm buying the book, my friend! Esp. after our extensive thread here. Whether I agree or disagree with points made is beside the point. When I purchase books these days, I want to enjoy them-and I will enjoy this one even if I react from a critical stance.
Oh my god I had no idea!! None. I am in shock. My heart is so happy for Anna! This whole thing means so much to her.
I cannot thank you enough.
I wish you both well AL-WAYS. Please remember, my words are never an attack on YOU. We are in a dialogue tumbling at times into debate. We "fight as Brothers." And perhaps this very thread, with its many perspectives, may lend some influence to the finalizing of Aliana's book.
Absolutely, dear Brother! What's your email addy? We'll get started there; and again, thank you!
777
You're definitely sure it's not 1,001 then?
1001 is an actual number ... the number of "souls" needed in tow to automatically (by mental gestures) bring the great Constitution into function. Before that, The Grand Master will assume all dictatorial functions.
1000 Outer Orders is based on a metaphorical number meaning all of them. If we were to include the Outer Order includes the lower 4 sephira of all the initiates, the metaphorical number would be 10,000. In Chinese superstitionary, ten-thousand implies "everything."
I did not know she (or anyone in that position) could just "assume" 8=3 or M.T.?...
Any person soever may claim the grade of MT 8=3.
And the line of people doing so has been very long. Crowley probably did go along (she is found in some Imprimaturae), just like he upheld Achad, who "attained." but then fell from Grace like Lucifer and the kranky Angels.
The jump-claimers do not endure. They either die or are laughed out of court (examples provided upon request). Motta had a longer run as the secret chiefs wanted everybody to see what can happen.
of course you will deny this, but accuse Aleisterion of (almost!) the same thing with regard to his elevating Leah to the pedestal of Can-Do-No-Wrong
I will and do deny it! I do not think Kenneth Grant was/is in a "Can-Do-No-Wrong" category. I think he is often critiqued from the wrong vantage point, however. His work is creative, visionary and highly suggestive. It is a poetic and artistic offering meant to induce states of consciousness or lead to further gateways of knowledge and experience. I suppose I might think, in the realm of art, that Blake can do no wrong. Paul Klee can do no wrong. In poetry, T.S. Eliot can do no wrong. "Doing wrong" doesn't apply to this lines of work.
But Grant IS different as he also writes of Crowley and many other things from an expository standpoint. He takes a very different view from Crowley of the XI, for example. Now, I would be wrong if I said Grant's interpretation of what Crowley promoted was an accurate representation of Crowley's actual view. But Grant doesn't do this. He acknowledges where he differs from Therion in Theory and Practice.
Hirsig is a very different case and this should be obvious. In the end, she breaks with Crowley and wants to just get on with her life. In fact, it may be that the ultimate apotheosis for Leah Hirsig may have come after she broke with Crowley, Thelema, being the "filthiest female" and so on. I applaud her boldness, her bravery and balls...she left a quiet comfortable life to push the limits of what human life is. I think she ended up getting put through the wringer. Things went South...as they usually do when one hooks up with Aleister Crowley.
Crowley was the one who introduces and encourages all of this "Office" stuff. Is this part of Cosmic Evolutionary Progress? That a woman (one at a time, with certain rules and procedures) becomes a "Scarlet Woman" and has to behave in certain ways or be cursed by a vengeful god? Talk about "Old Aeon!"
With respect to the known initiatory path[-s] of the Scarlet women within Aleister Crowley's Thelema, is Leah Hirsig the one among them with the most successful known track record?
I have no idea where you dug out this quote of mine, but I am glad that it is a right one. Leah is absolutely the one with the "most successful known track record." I think, that no other of AC's Scarlet Women left so many tracks as her. I don't know about the diaries of Rose RTC has, but to my knowledge not one other SW left as many written traces as her. So what exactly are you trying to say here, Well, old buddy?
Anna and I both took Oaths to finish this. That's Aliana's name, by the way, Anna Evans.
So now we have an author's name, a title, and two people took oaths to do this. So it should be happening. Hopefully so.
What's your email addy?
You can reach me at kylefite@yahoo.com
Please know-I am not offering to publish your book but have some thoughts as to how you and Anna may proceed. Either one of you can write me there.
I would like to see this project come to fruition. I may be sharply critical of it-or not. But that is neither here nor there. It would be nice to see the book manifest and I am sure we'll all jump in to discuss it!
Please know-I am not offering to publish your book but have some thoughts as to how you and Anna may proceed.
Oh, okay...when you wrote "I'm buying your book", I just assumed you meant you wanted to pay us for the rights to the book. I misunderstood.
That's okay, Brother! And thanks so much for the advice, I'll ask Anna to get on the phone and speak with you once we get your number. I'm certain that she will benefit a lot from your knowledge of these matters.
Cheers,
777
So now we have an author's name, a title, and two people took oaths to do this. So it should be happening. Hopefully so.
Yes, the Gospel of Dead Souls is coming.
I'm certain that she will benefit a lot from your knowledge of these matters.
I simply have some thoughts as to how your book may move from a developing project to manifestation.
I will happily share these thoughts when communication comes through.
Bear in mind, I offer no guarantee of any success. I have no idea if Anna is even a competent writer. I simply have some ideas which are better shared off the forum.
Hi everyone! Sorry about the long silence, I had a lot on my plate and needed to step away from some things for a while so I could focus more.
This is the same idea as seeing images in the clouds.
Apophenia
Think about it: if someone says "Horus" instead of "Ra-hoor-khuit"
Which could be important, depending on context. For example, Ra Harakte and Heru Behudite are both Horus, but not interchangeable.
I applaud her boldness, her bravery and balls...she left a quiet comfortable life to push the limits of what human life is.
The reasons why I find her so interesting!
@aleisterion I am very excited about the book! I definitely went to get a copy when it comes out!
Hi everyone! Sorry about the long silence, I had a lot on my plate and needed to step away from some things for a while so I could focus more.
Howdy Katrice! 93
Which could be important, depending on context. For example, Ra Harakte and Heru Behudite are both Horus, but not interchangeable.
So true! though not in the case of Tahuti, or Thoth. The Ape of Thoth is essentially Thoth or dhwty, as the Baboon or Cynocephalus; Thoth is alternately ibis-headed instead, at other times, with the body of a man. Those are the two manifestations of this dual-natured deity. He is god of the moon and of the underworld.
I applaud her boldness, her bravery and balls...she left a quiet comfortable life to push the limits of what human life is.
The reasons why I find her so interesting!
Anna (Aliana, my wife) and I find her admirable for her strength of will, innovativeness, and for her magical abilities. Anna says that future generations will see her as standing up for women's rights, for being a part of the LGBT community, and for being there for Aleister Crowley at the most critical time of his life and Work.
It's great to have you back with us here at Lashtal!
Cheers,
93 93/93
Aleisterion & Aliana
(Angloqabalah), wherein A=1 thru Z=26, holds Ra-Hoor-Khuit (144) to be of the same numeration as Shaitan-Aiwass.
I have used a similar Q extensively in the past, so you have my attention. The first thought poppong into my vacuum cleaner is ... Of courese - Liber 777 tells us that Aiwass, Hadit, and RHK are all bivouacked at Kether, along with Atmadarshana - depending on which column of culture one is viewing.
Howdy Katrice! 93
93!
It's nice to be back!
The Ape of Thoth is essentially Thoth or dhwty, as the Baboon or Cynocephalus;
I'm already very familiar with Thoth. I was just giving an example of how making the distinctions can be very important, especially as the gods and their cults blended and sometimes fully incorporated each other over time. You might have seen the discussion on Mentu from a while ago, and how that deity overlapped with a couple of others in his history. Even when it was just "Mentu", which time period determined which Mentu.
Anna (Aliana, my wife) and I find her admirable for her strength of will, innovativeness, and for her magical abilities. Anna says that future generations will see her as standing up for women's rights, for being a part of the LGBT community, and for being there for Aleister Crowley at the most critical time of his life and Work.
I am so looking forward to this! She's up there with Maria de Naglowska and Rosaleen Norton for women in magical history that I find most fascinating.
the_real_simon_iff: "I have no idea where you dug out this quote of mine, but I am glad that it is a right one."
Your posting posted "06/02/2007 8:26 am", on the first page of this thread, is the second posting in the whole thread.( Source: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/scarlet-women/leah-hirsig-2/#post-19247 )
the_real_simon_iff: "So what exactly are you trying to say here, Well, old buddy?"
I asked if Leah Hirsig is the one among the Scarlet women within Aleister Crowley's Thelema, with the most successful known track record concerning these Scarlet women's known initiatory paths[?], thinking that a thread about the known initiatory paths of Crowley's Thelema's Scarlet women, might be of interest.
Your posting posted "06/02/2007 8:26 am", on the first page of this thread, is the second posting in the whole thread.( Source: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/scarlet-women/leah-hirsig-2/#post-19247 )
Thanks for that. Well, 16 years ago it seems I still was a hopeless romantic and dug out this charming poem about Leah, today I would probably refer to the many other poems NOT that romantic ... but ... erm ... you know ... sublime ...
I asked if Leah Hirsig is the one among the Scarlet women within Aleister Crowley's Thelema, with the most successful known track record concerning these Scarlet women's known initiatory paths[?], thinking that a thread about the known initiatory paths of Crowley's Thelema's Scarlet women, might be of interest.
Sorry, for this posting spree. I am a little sick and have too much time for books, for checking books and stuff and for the computer. As we are here witnessing "live" the creation of a book I thought it might be a good idea to tackle some things before that we all might ask after puclication.
So, while it is true that Leah is the SW from whom we have the most material about, and I was looking through my stuff I realized also that the time of her office also is a time of very little magical work published. In fact none, since the Cephaloedium Working wasn't published. But, no Liber L, no Rites of Eleusis, no Book 4, no Amalantrah (admittedly also unpublished, iirc), etc.
Is anybody here aware of any "fruits" this remarkable SW helped riping? Of course, she was instrumental in Diary of a Drug Fiend and the Hag, but I wonder if her time with the Beast was mostly a time of heavy transgressional Stuff (not that this would be worth less) induced by furious drug experiments? And of course so much politics.
I guess she was clearly a different SW.
And of course did anyone ever heard anything important from any SW after her? Notable women (meh, that sounds weird) would be Frieda Harris and Deidre Patricia MacLellan, but I think they don't count as SW.
Just something that came to mind.
And of course did anyone ever heard anything important from any SW after her?
Dorothy Olsen;
Maria Teresa Ferrari de Miramar;
Hanni Larissa Jaeger;
Bertha Busch;
Pearl Brooksmith.
Those are the ones following Leah. Crowley called Hanni the best fuck of his life.
Those are the ones following Leah. Crowley called Hanni the best fuck of his life.
Well, that's kind of important, isn't it?
Let's not talk about that maybe AC just was a prick, but WHAT DO YOU THINK Alostrael brought to the table? I mean, apart from "Leah Sublime"? What was her big contribution? I mean, just apart from being kind of super interesting herself?
Crowley called Hanni the best fuck of his life.
Actually don't quote me on that -- can't recall where I read that -- but he did perform multiple sex magick operations with her, and loved her very deeply according to his diaries. Hanni Jaeger (Anu, "The Monster") didn't last long; he made some artwork while with her.
Don't forget that The Book of Thoth came late in his life.
Don't forget that The Book of Thoth came late in his life.
I didn't. I just said that Frieda Harris probably wouldn't count as a SW.
WHAT DO YOU THINK Alostrael brought to the table? I mean, apart from "Leah Sublime"? What was her big contribution? I mean, just apart from being kind of super interesting herself?
She took dictation of some pretty important writings, such as Magick in Theory & Practice (I think). I'd have to look them up to see which ones she helped him with.
Actually, she helped with the New Comment, I believe. Not Djeridensis, which came later.
More important, she gave him ideas in their discussions together.
Actually don't quote me on that-- can't recall where I read that -- but he did perform multiple sex
Let's just say I would like to have people here claiming something without saying later "Actually don't quote me on that." It would be easier.