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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
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05/05/2020 9:32 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Does he provide scientific references, or does he just channel this stuff?

In any crisis there often seems to be a (small but definite) number of people who like to trollishly scare-monger and unnecessarily spread alarm without any evidence behind them to back up their allegations. 

At the moment this looks to be like another example of this (unless the culprit's actually chris himself).

N Joy


christibrany
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05/05/2020 2:25 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

(unless the culprit's actually chris himself).

@jamiejbarter

That was a bit stupid of you. I would think you would know by now that if I have something to say, I right up and say it. 

 

@Shiva

Yes, it is indeed a lot of inference and claims with no scientific linkage provided by himself, however due to the few posts where he already knew about the long viability on surfaces, the standard incubation period, as well as the aysmptomatic spreaders, at least a month and sometimes 2 months before the media reported on this, leads me to believe he does indeed have inside sources.

 

However, I do hope that he is wrong on a lot of his information, and perhaps misread, or got fed disinformation . Especially in regards to the '3 phase' infection and 'watching the 1st way of asymptomatic people' to see what happens.

 

I just wanted to provide some food for thought, as we all sit, and wait.  And wait....

 


christibrany
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05/05/2020 3:16 pm  

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/04/new-test-proves-coronavirus-was-europe-early-december-12653049/

 

Novel Coronavirus was in France at least as early as December. Another article stated the victim's wife who was unaffected, worked at a sushi bar near or with a lot of Chinese workers who just arrived back from China. 

 

I was also ill with a bad fever (102.5 ish) extremely bad aches, I couldn't leave my bed for a day, unable to walk, and a dry unproductive cough in mid to late December. 

I know it is of course speculation, but I was going to the University gym weekly, where a huge proportion of the people I would exercise next to were Chinese students that flew back and forth all the time.

I never get ill with fevers, in fact that was my first time having a temperature of any kind in almost 20 years, so I MAYBE had it too.  Who knows until we get an antibody test that is actually accurate.

Which I wonder if it is possible since coronaviruses in general are so ubiquitous. 

So many unknowns.  And all this being used by political idiots and greedy guts on all spectra. 

 


Shiva
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05/05/2020 5:57 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

At the moment this looks to be like another example of this

If he had access to secret docs, and he was/is posting those secrets, publickly, online, for the spooks to trace him down, then he has placed himself in harm's way.

If he's making it up, then the Fake News police will get him.

(Sorry, there is no Fake News police, but I am considering forming one under the All American Vigilante Construction Group. AAVKG = 31.

Posted by: @christibrany

That was a bit stupid of you. I would think you would know by now that if I have something to say, I right up and say it. 

That was a bit stupid of you. I would think by now you would know that what you think about what other people should know about you is not what other people do know about you.

Plus, you are dealing with JJB (= 22), who can find any flaw, or potential Fake News, in anybody's statement. However, since I have seen similar "News" stories a long time ago, I will not be the one to accuse (or suggest)  you are creating a fictitious poster who knows what's really going on.

On other fronts, but still the virus topic, please compare these two recent statements ...

1. The tents set up in Central Park are empty; the hospitals are empty.

2. A nurse says hospitals are purposely killing people.

One conclusion: Hospitals are purposely killing people who do not exist?

Posted by: @christibrany

at least a month and sometimes 2 months before the media reported on this

Yes, this would be a significant factor ... if I had not heard the same thing from other sources way back when (when = about two days after the virus was first mentioned in the news). We not only have to find the first virus infectee (in order to trace the spread), but also we have to find the first Fake News idiot (in order to stem the flow of illusion).

I am not totally discounting this source. Please keep an eye on his posting, and since you're a member "over there," maybe you can ask him some investigative questions?

Posted by: @christibrany

And all this being used by political idiots and greedy guts on all spectra. 

Oh, you noticed.

As a physician, but one with meager experience in epidemiology, I particularly wonder how a virus can be programmed to infect a person exactly three times.

 


Jamie J Barter
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06/05/2020 2:59 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

That was a bit stupid of you. 

No, not stupid at all - the exact reverse in fact imho!

Posted by: @christibrany

I would think you would know by now that if I have something to say, I right up and say it. 

Any further comment at all would be quite unnecessary & superfluous.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself"? (Roosevelt),

N Joy


christibrany
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06/05/2020 3:09 am  

@jamiejbarter

 

'Jamie.   Jamie!! Put that doll down. Pay attention! 

Say thank you to Chris for sharing'

 


dom
 dom
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06/05/2020 8:20 am  

US President Donald Trump has confirmed the White House coronavirus task force will be winding down, with Vice-President Mike Pence suggesting it could be disbanded within weeks.

"We are bringing our country back," Mr Trump said during a visit to a mask-manufacturing factory in Arizona. 

New confirmed infections per day in the US currently top 20,000, and daily deaths exceed 1,000.

US health officials warn the virus may spread as businesses begin to reopen.

The US currently has 1.2 million confirmed coronavirus infections and more than 70,000 related deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, which is tracking the pandemic.

What did President Trump say?

During a visit to the plant in Phoenix after weeks holed up at the White House, Mr Trump told journalists: "Mike Pence and the task force have done a great job, but we're now looking at a little bit of a different form, and that form is safety and opening. And we'll have a different group probably set up for that."

 

~ BBC

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


christibrany
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06/05/2020 4:36 pm  

https://onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2020/04/27/fauci-knew-about-hcq-in-2005-nobody-needed-to-die

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

 

Someone at zerohedge comments on this article: 

'Dr. Fauci knew about the efficacy of HCQ-AZ at least by 2005 when research by the NIH, of which he was the director, proved that it worked spectacularly well against corona viruses. That means if he and others who owned Gilead stock wanted to push remdesivir at an extortionary $1,000 per pill, they already knew where the competition was that they needed to suppress. These people have the blood of thousands on their hands, and should be treated like the mass-murderers they are.'

 

I said it once and I will say it again, the politicising of this virus (Trump said now, what Fauci said 15 years ago- so now it's wrong) is not only criminal, it is literally killing people.

Furthermore, all signs point to forced intubation on ventilators as hastening people towards death by damaging their lungs. By and large they should be on O2 supplement, or even a CPAP.  

I don't think the article mentions that zinc is the most important part of the equation.  The HCQ only facilitates the zinc entering the cell.  

More foods for thoughts. 


ignant666
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06/05/2020 4:52 pm  

No one knows what treatments are effective against this virus now, and certainly no one knew in 2005, 15 years before this virus existed. Simplistic far-right propaganda taking advantage of the general lack of science education among Americans.

The "politicization of the virus" is a phenomenon of the US Republican Party. Literally no one else on the planet, or in the US, is doing this. Public health, something both parties supported for all previous time until January, has now become a namby-pamby "Democrat Party" concern, rightly scorned by all good MAGAs who are up on all the latest Kremlin anti-American propaganda spin.

The US right are desperate to re-elect their God-Emperor, despite his dismal ongoing failure to take basic national public health measures (testing/contact tracing/isolation) to contain the virus that is killing tens of thousands, in the country that literally taught the rest of the world to do testing/contact tracing/isolation in response to pandemic disease.

Excluding the NY metro area, where infections/deaths are heading down, infections and deaths are trending sharply upwards across the US, as Republican dominated states push to "re-open" (for "re-open", read "cut off unemployment benefits, cut off expanded COVID-19 Federal unemployment benefits, and screw small businesses out of business interruption insurance payments").

It will be interesting to see if the politics of COVID-19 change by midsummer, when the pandemic will be raging across the "red states" and killing many people in those places, and somewhat controlled in the "blue states".


christibrany
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06/05/2020 4:58 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

The "politicization of the virus" is a phenomenon of the US Republican Party.

It's ongoing on both 'sides' daily, in the media.  No one is perfect or exempt.  

Posted by: @ignant666

Excluding the NY metro area, where infections/deaths are heading down, infections and deaths are trending sharply upwards across the US, as Republican dominated states push to "re-open"

This is true, but mayn't it be because of increased testing, not because the virus is 'growing'?

It will be interesting to see if the politics of COVID-19 change by midsummer, when the pandemic will be raging across the "red states" and killing many people in those places, and somewhat controlled in the "blue states".

 

I agree it will be interesting to see what happens!

Stay safe all. 


ignant666
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06/05/2020 5:12 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

It's ongoing on both 'sides' daily, in the media.  No one is perfect or exempt. 

Please show me an example of an elected official who is not a Republican advocating for something beyond more testing, more contact tracing, and more money for hospitals, and state and local governments, and more money for folks unemployed or out of businesses from the pandemic.

Please. Of course, there aren't any such people.

Posted by: @christibrany

This is true, but mayn't it be because of increased testing, not because the virus is 'growing'?

Deaths don't increase from more testing. Pandemics do not care about state borders, or the politics of local elected officials.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/rural-infection-rates-spike-as-urban-outbreaks-subside-data-says

The pandemic has now taken hold everywhere in the US where there are people. Most of the US is at about the stage the coasts were in March, and they have decided it is time to "re-open", as infections, and death, trend sharply upwards in their states.

What stops pandemic disease is public health (test/trace/isolate) capacity, and good hospitals to treat sick people, and adequate hospital capacity to deal with huge numbers of sick people. Most "red states" chronically underfund state health departments, many don't even have county health departments, and almost all of non-coastal "red" America has a huge shortage of hospital capacity.

Since the Federal government has totally checked out on funding or supervising public health work in the US, states are on their own. All states will be broke soon, especially the "red states" that don't have state income taxes, and depend on sales taxes (down to near zero since March) and Federal tax money ( that comes from those narcissistic coastal "blue" states, natch).


christibrany
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06/05/2020 5:25 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Please show me an example of an elected official who is not a Republican advocating for something beyond more testing, more contact tracing, and more money for hospitals, and state and local governments, and more money for folks unemployed or out of businesses from the pandemic.

I never said 'Republicans are against testing or funding hospitals.' I don't think that's the case .  I am talking about TDS, and using any information to make the guy, who already makes himself look bad, totally smeared/worthless, at the cost of people's lives.  

Almost everyone is talking about more testing and tracing.

On the opposite side, since you seem to want to be partisan, my state's (CO) Democratic governor called for us to open up already as of last week. 

[ https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/23/colorado-safer-at-home-rules-coronavirus-covid/  

Beginning Friday, May 1, they [all retailers] can open to limited numbers of in-store customers if they have social-distancing policies in place and employees wear masks and gloves. Stores are encouraged to continue curbside pickup for as long as possible.

Real estate agents can conduct one-on-one showings, but not open houses, beginning April 27. That’s the same day that elective and voluntary medical procedures can restart as well.

Salons, tattoo shops, personal trainers, dog groomers and other one-on-one personal services will be able to reopen May 1. ]

We also have local county orders expired, or expiring in 2 days.  This allows for all businesses open provided masks are worn . What's wrong with that?

 

How does that jive with your implying that anyone opening up is a stupid Republican/red state?


ignant666
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06/05/2020 5:35 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

I never said 'Republicans are against testing or funding hospitals.' I don't think that's the case . 

No you did not say this. BUT: Of course, Republicans are "against [funding] testing or funding hospitals"- there is $25 billion for testing in the last bail-out, and money for hospitals, solely because the Democrats (Pelosi and Schumer) refused to fund still more bail-outs for big business unless testing and treatment were funded too.

I don't know enough about Colorado to comment intelligently about what your Governor is doing. I hope it works out well, for the sake of you and your wife, and my close friend who lives in Ft. Collins, and my other friend in Durango.

 


christibrany
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06/05/2020 5:43 pm  

In a nutshell I think Republicans were at first more focussed on the small business programme and paychecks, which I think is equally as important, as hospital funding.  Most people will be more adversely impacted by shuttering their businesses or being laid off and starving, than by the virus.

So I think everyone won. Well no one 'won' but you know what I mean. Both things got done.  Which is why we have checks and balances. 

 


Shiva
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06/05/2020 5:57 pm  
Posted by: @dom

US President Donald Trump has confirmed the White House coronavirus task force will be winding down ...

What did President Trump say?

It doesn't matter what he said, except for the record recording of "how to change your mind and mouth in one day." This morning, he announced "the task force will continue indefinitely."

Posted by: @christibrany

It's ongoing on both 'sides' daily, in the media.  No one is perfect or exempt. 

The Chinese ideogram for "Danger" also means "Opportunity." Get it? There are those huddling in the ir homes, like me, and then there is everyone else, madly trying to seize the dangerous opportunity and make a point, a buck, or get elected. I see, smell, and sense it all over the place.

Posted by: @chris
Posted by: @ignant666

Excluding the NY metro area, where infections/deaths are heading down, infections and deaths are trending sharply upwards across the US, as Republican dominated states push to "re-open"

CS reolies ...  This is true, but mayn't it be because of increased testing, not because the virus is 'growing'?

The rising curve(s) in rural areas (such as New Mexico, et al ) were published a month ago. As the metro area curves passed their peak and started to cool down, the rural areas began to rise. In New Mexico, the sudden rush and peak was predicted (at least a month ago) for the first week in May. Well, here we are (May 1-7) and the curve took a sudden surge two days ago.

Testing? Increased? The stupid tests are not working (in some cases). Setting aside testing and politics, here's how it works:

Hi pop dense metro areas with lotsa foreign traffic explode first.
Then, as they cool down, the plague spreads to outlying areas.
All as pre-predicted long ago.

I have given some thought particles to the concept, previously stated, that "the virus will infect each person three times," which is a pretty specific statement, coupled with "vaccines will not work." How could such a scenario work?

One possibility is programmed mutation, three rounds. Do we have the ability to program such a precise mutation? I don't know, but ...

"Researchers in the US and UK have identified hundreds of mutations to the virus which causes the disease Covid-19.

"But none has yet established what this will mean for virus spread in the population and for how effective a vaccine might be.

"Viruses mutate - it's what they do.

"The question is: which of these mutations actually do anything to change the severity or infectiousness of the disease?

"Preliminary research from the US has suggested one particular mutation - D614G - is becoming dominant and could make the disease more infectious.

"It hasn't yet been reviewed by other scientists and formally published."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52557955

 


christibrany
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06/05/2020 7:46 pm  

@ignant666

 

Out of curiosity, as a former scientist, what do you make of the NIH study I posted on the effectiveness of HCQ/CQ on Sars coronaviruses (of which the virus causing covid-19 is one: specifically SARS-CoV-2) ?

 

Some more doctors chiming in:[Hydroxychloroquine Has about 90 Percent Chance of Helping COVID-19 Patients, States Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hydroxychloroquine-90-percent-chance-helping-155637974.html  

+ https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/edit ]

 

My whole point is that I think some governors and states should not be withholding treatments because some dumb people who swallowed fish tank cleaner misunderstood or listened to Trump, who often misspeaks. 

 

The battle to get a vaccine which they can get a patent for and make more money, based on what Bill Gates (is he a doctor?) and Fauci are saying, seems suspect to me when we have a treatment that seems to be working and is more prevalent in other countries, which is a cheap generic.  


ignant666
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06/05/2020 8:15 pm  

There is no real evidence of what works/doesn't work yet, everyone in the whole world is working on this. The hydrochloroquine drugs showed initial promise, but killed more people than no treatment in a large VA study. Anything that might work is getting trialed. The things that work will emerge from the worldwide all-against-all fray.

No one at CDC/NIH is shutting off work on anything promising because some other thing would make them more money; no one at CDC has very much money or any significant investments, and no one at CDC is very motivated by money, or they would work in the pharma industry. The idea that anyone at CDC/NIH is acting from a profit motive shows a fundamental misunderstanding of science, and how the US Federal government works.

And even if any country were to be stupid enough to direct their efforts by the profit motive, all the other countries, and the huge new-this-week international every-rich-country-except-Trumpland funding stream, are going to follow the science.

Any vaccine patent will be busted fast (as has happened with FAR less-needed HIV drugs), no poor nation is going to honor some multinational's "right" to profits from a vaccine.

Big pharma is certainly trying to make money here, but any real money is in shit that works. If shit works, the world will know. The discoverers will get their Nobels, and nice labs, and the best grad students, and the gratitude of literally every living human for the rest of their lives. You honestly think money (which there will be plenty of) is needed to motivate folks?

Viewing this international pandemic through the lens of US domestic politics, as Trump and the party he rules with an iron fist are determined to do, is a huge mistake that will probably kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, and certainly will kill many tens of thousands of Americans,unnecessarily.


Shiva
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06/05/2020 8:20 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

based on what Bill Gates (is he a doctor?)

It doesn't matter is he's a doc or not, because the standard-format doc doesn't know Shinola about this stuff. It takes a lab-nerd-type of doc, or microbiologist, to know any of the details.

 


ignant666
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06/05/2020 8:29 pm  

Bill Gates' contribution is being a very smart nerdy dude, with more money than God.

The idea that Bill would ever possibly be motivated by trying to make more of the stuff, as he gives away billions a year, defies reality. His ideas about education, and quite possible other things, are terrible, but i don't doubt his sincerity in trying to give away his billions to make the world a better place.


christibrany
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06/05/2020 8:45 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

There is no real evidence of what works/doesn't work yet, everyone in the whole world is working on this. The hydrochloroquine drugs showed initial promise, but killed more people than no treatment in a large VA study.

Did you read through the studies I linked?  The recent ones esp the ones in the Google docs? (Maybe you're not but) My sense is you are ignoring what doesn't fit your personal narrative.

For example, the VA study was shown to be flawed because the treatment was given to people who were already extremely close to death.  No miracle drug can take you back from the brink if you are too far gone.  Not only that but you were the one agreeing with me earlier that the studies were too small.  This VA study only had 368 participants, all of which had serious chronic conditions, which largely led to their heart problems. All the prior linked studies show almost no risk for healthy patients taking the medication.  Furthermore, zinc is needed to make the treatment effective. 

 

Secretary of Veterans Affairs Robert Wilkie disputed the importance of the VA “study.” He noted that it was only “an observational study,” rather than a “clinical study.”

Wilkie added, “It was done on a small number of veterans, sadly those of whom were in the last stages of life. We know the drug has been working on middle-aged and younger veterans, and the governor of New York was just in the Oval Office yesterday asking for more of the drug to be delivered to the city of New York.”

 

Posted by: @ignant666

And even if any country were to be stupid enough to direct their efforts by the profit motive, all the other countries, and the huge new-this-week international every-rich-country-except-Trumpland funding stream, are going to follow the science.

Exactly-We are in agreement.  Hence, please read the studies I linked, largely out of South Korea, India, etc. 

 

Posted by: @ignant666

Viewing this international pandemic through the lens of US domestic politics, as Trump and the party he rules with an iron fist are determined to do, is a huge mistake that will probably kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, and certainly will kill many tens of thousands of Americans,unnecessarily.

Once again, I agree, yet you were the one who started talking about red vs blue states, not actual studies.   I was bemoaning the politicization of this, while you were adding to it. At least, again, that was my perception.

Posted by: @ignant666

His ideas about education, and quite possible other things, are terrible, but i don't doubt his sincerity in trying to give away his billions to make the world a better place.

I think his background shows he is a not-so-hidden eugenicist with racial and perhaps darker motives. 

In his own words:

'If we do a real great job on vaccines,... we can lower that (population)....' 

https://youtu.be/SYyDKPUxxPI

 

 


ignant666
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06/05/2020 8:59 pm  

This is a very old, very debunked, TOTALLY FALSE, claim about Bill :

In other words, Gates is not interested in using vaccines to reduce the population by using them as an agent of death or a tool to sterilize unsuspecting masses. Rather, Gates is interested in keeping more children alive in order to reduce the need for parents to have more children, thus limiting the overall population growth rate.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-vaccinations-depopulation/

Very few of the claims one might get from various far-right nut sites will survive a quick fact check on snopes. All anti-vaxxer claims are always false (often knowingly so).

As to what works to treat COVID-19, i have no idea, and no interest in reading studies*, for the reasons i have explained: shit that works will become the most widely-used remedy. If HCQ does, god bless America, it's out of patent and cheap to produce. But that doesn't seem to be the case. We will see.

I am happy that tobacco smokers, and former tobacco smokers, are dramatically underrepresented in deaths in every country where this has been looked at so far. There is a lot more evidence that smoking cigarettes prevents COVID-19 deaths than that HCQ does, AFAIK.

------

* And if these "studies" ain't peer-reviewed (or ain't peer-reviewed yet), they ain't shit. None of those URLs look very "science-y". The google doc did not impress on a quick skim.


lashtal
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06/05/2020 9:16 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Very few of the claims one might get from various far-right nut sites will survive a quick fact check on snopes. All anti-vaxxer claims are always false (often knowingly so).

Well said!

I have no idea why this thread remains here on a site committed to the life and legacy of Aleister Crowley. For that reason, it is now locked.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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