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Fascism takes root in 3 simple steps.  

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dom
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25/12/2019 1:08 pm  

Taken from a short lecture by Prof of Philosophy at Yale university (youtube link is below); 

 

Step 1  MYTHIC PAST

A nostalgia and faith in  a "racially pure ", traditional patriarchal crime-free mythic past which has been corrupted by Feminists, Liberals and Immigrants i.e. encouraging the birth of a movement where the onus is on ' making our nation great again'.    

Allied to this is the  father-figure strong man stance...….man....not woman.   If the strong-man is removed everything falls apart...society..the economy.

 

Step 2   SOW DIVISION AMONGST THE POPULACE

 

Once in full power the next step is sow division.  This group against that group.   Chose your group.   It's easier to control when there is division.

Step 3   THE ATTACK ON TRUTH AND FACTS

When Fascism has finally taken root it spreads through the anti-intellectualism that is propaganda i.e.   truth and facts are totally attacked.   I guess this is literally what insanity-paranoia is and it is  naturally a fertile ground for conspiracy theories e.g. "Jewish Capitalism" or "the Deep State" (what?) is out to get us etc.             

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QK1IVi4REI


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dom
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25/12/2019 1:19 pm  

I would add to step 3 the notion that 'the great man' now he has political power has somehow magically created an 'economic miracle' N.B  the term 'miracle' as in 'religious' 'spiritual' or 'magical' reality.      

Additionally I would say that  the 'great man' also bandies  the term 'genius' about when discussing himself or someone else.   


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Shiva
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25/12/2019 4:38 pm  

Okay. "Divide and Conquer," is an olde tyme strategeum. What about it, and why should we care about it on this most holy of psuedo-solstice days?


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dom
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25/12/2019 9:19 pm  

@shiva Trying to work out if you're joking or not.

 

I would add this next point to Step 1 i.e.  although espousing traditional values there is a contradiction in that the obvious  virtues of compassion embodied in the traditional religions are bypassed by the emerging 'strong man' / 'great leader' e.g. perhaps publicly ridiculing disabled people or something like that.   


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Tiger
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26/12/2019 12:06 am  

I thought step 1 was give em bread and circuses

step 2 was coral tem and funnel em along the path that ensures their credit card works.

step 3 let the borg inform them on their options.

shame em if they didn’t get their shopping on time.


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Shiva
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26/12/2019 1:21 am  
Posted by: @dom

@shiva Trying to work out if you're joking or not.

To avoid work, simply assume that 80% of what I say and type is joking, because I find most of this stuff to be numerous. You know, Life and the Path are just a Game.

Then unload 19% into the serious category. That's usually the metaphysical data department. This can also be part of the game, but I usually tend to avoid twisting the planes and inverting the spheres for the sake of amusement.

The final 1% is devoted to how I control civilization through my agency, The Deep State. This sector may contain errors in spelling, judgment, or veracity.

So your "work" is to decide which is what or whomever.

Posted by: @tiger

shame em if they didn’t get their shopping on time.

Your three-step program to illumination is sufficiently correct enough to be placed in the serious 1% category. The way you phrase it is obviously the humorous 80% majority. The intent of your post is pure 19% serious.

I have anal-ized your post by categories, so dom might understand how this system works.


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djedi
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26/12/2019 1:47 am  

Oh, yes, if only this dying world of eternal struggle had more vibrant muslim scholars like Rudolf von Sebottendorf, and proud homosexuals like Ernst Rohm. We certainly do not need anymore evil racists like Gerard Aumont.

Or perhaps we simply haven't switched our ring to the other finger in some time, and the ox has broken from its yoke (or as the protofascists called it, jugum).

But in the spirit of Christmas, I'll be earnest and say that most of the serious young occultists (I struggle to call them magicians) I encounter are fascists, or otherwise fascistic traditionalists or 'natsocs' or some other flavor-of-the-month ideologues. Tangentially related to that experience of mine, many young non-occultist fascists (et al.) are fans of Evola's political philosophies, but not his magical teachings.

What was it Jung said about the Nazis? The corpse of Odin reawakened and channeled itself through Hitler, or something to that effect? And all the 'sturm' symbolism was proof of this?


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Shiva
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26/12/2019 3:28 am  
Posted by: @djedi

What was it Jung said about the Nazis? The corpse of Odin reawakened and channeled itself through Hitler, or something to that effect?

I don't know if that was Jung, but the analogy seems proper. I also never heard of any one of the philosopher/authors you mentioned. But then I never studied philosophy, or literature, or art, or law, or politics, or sociology.

But I specialized in education and medicine, with a short study in WW2, and psychology, so I'm qualified to have an opinion about Jung and Odin.


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Tiger
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26/12/2019 10:24 am  

Present the option of which funnel they want to go down.
Left, Middle or Right.
When the majority end up in one;
Leverage accordingly.


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dom
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26/12/2019 10:47 am  

@djedi

Oh, yes, if only this dying world of eternal struggle had more vibrant muslim scholars like Rudolf von Sebottendorf, and proud homosexuals like Ernst Rohm

 

You're a fan of Rohm or am I missing the irony?

Yeah Jung bought into the Step 1 the Race Nostalgia mythos and the Third Reich liked his ideas hence if I'm not mistaken the psychiatric establishment was forced to relinquish any Freudian ideas and instead replace it with Jungian ones.   Later Jung said that the German fascist phase was the result of an entire nation being swallowed by it's mass  Shadow Self.

 

 

   

 

 


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dom
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26/12/2019 10:53 am  

Fascist occultists?  Obviously not grounded in the Cabbalah.   


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Michael Staley
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26/12/2019 1:09 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Fascist occultists?  Obviously not grounded in the Cabbalah.

It doesn't add up.


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dom
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26/12/2019 1:38 pm  

It doesn't add up.

 

What?   Gematria?


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dom
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26/12/2019 3:50 pm  

Michael, in my opinion a proper grounding in the Cabbalah would compel a young occultist to deal with any fascistic tendencies within himself.


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Shiva
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26/12/2019 7:39 pm  
Posted by: @dom

the psychiatric establishment was forced to relinquish any Freudian ideas and instead replace it with Jungian ones.

The "psychiatric" establishment came later. Both Freud and Jung were medical docs, studying the soul. But it was generally known as Psychology in the beginning.

Psyche means "soul." Logy means "study." Psychology = "Study of the Soul." Jung's system was called "Analytical Psychology."

I don't know how it is today, but back in the 60s of the 19s, there were still quite a few hardcore psychoanalysts working the couches. Some folks went on to embrace Jung (and Aldler, and then a whole stream of unique theorists). We know that Jung was the coolest, because he based his system on interpretation of symbols via alchemy.

Then their came a split. I don't know when it took place, but Psychology and Psychiatry took two different paths.

Psyche still meant "soul" (in Greek), but the docs changed that to mean "Mind."
"Iatr is a funny word meaning "Treatment."

So here's how this all worked out: The MDs became psychiatrists ("one who specializes in treating the Mind"), and their main form of treatment is biochemical. That is, they maintain that mental illness is caused by an imbalance in neuro-chemicals ... so they give the patient an opposing laboratory-chemical. Today, Prozac, and its analogs, is/are the most popular. One of the highest side-effects noted with these SRIs (serotonin re-uptake inhibitors) is suicide. Not "suicidal," but fully-accomplished suicide. We all need to be given a break here, because something's rotten in Den-psyche-mark.

On the other side of of where the path split, we find the non-medical doctor practitioner of the original psychology. These folks don't go to medical school and then specialize in drugs. In fact, drugs are forbidden to them. They go to psychology school, where the get a Master's degree (which can get them a license), or a PhD, which is always more prestigious. They must rely on old-fashioned soul-searching, and they might be Freudian, but they surely know Jung, but most have been trained in some offshoot of the science.

Posted by: @dom

Fascist occultists?  Obviously not grounded in the Cabbalah.   

Since everyone must build their own Qabalah, then even fascists have been thus "grounded."

Also Qabalah (as writ by AC, is based on the Hebrew letters QBL, which means to receive." Spellings such as Cabbalah, Caballah, Kabalah, etc, all remove the Q and replace it with a C or a K, which is easier for gringos to pronounce. If said gringos spell QBL with a C or a K, then they are not properly grounded in their science.

Posted by: @michael-staley

It doesn't add up.

Nothing adds up any more. QBL is not spelled with a C/K. Psychiatrists do not recognize the Soul. Prozac causes suicide.

I think I;ll find a Chiropractor. At least they claim to be able to heal anything by manipulating the sleleton.

Posted by: @dom

Michael, in my opinion a proper grounding in the Cabbalah would compel a young occultist to deal with any fascistic tendencies within himself.

Your opinion is noted. QBL is worked out at Hod (3rd circuit). Fascism is a quality of Netzach (4th circuit). You are correct if you mean that One needs to have their limbic brain properly ordered before they can adequately cope with their tendency to dominate society.

However, one could have a perfectly, geometrically aligned QBL and still fall prey to draconian despotism.

 

 


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christibrany
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26/12/2019 11:37 pm  

Dom,

 

What is your obsession with fascism per say?

What do you hope to accomplish as you are not teaching us anything?
This is not a personal blog.

 

I am a very libertarian individual in that I think that all political ideologies have good and bad points.

I do think that the control over corporations and capital by a fascist government is good, to a degree.  It makes sure they do not get too big and over reaching.  But 'they' still allowed businesses to flourish. 

I do think that 'communes' are good to a degree, because they allow personal binding and identity to flourish for a greater good. 

 

But your constant posting on this note is a bit strange.

 

We need order

and discipline

But we also need freedom of expression. 

 

 


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mal
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27/12/2019 1:21 am  
Posted by: @dom

in my opinion a proper grounding in the Cabbalah would compel a young occultist to deal with any fascistic tendencies within himself.

Cabala is a map. Territory can be ignored.

Posted by: @shiva

Also Qabalah (as writ by AC, is based on the Hebrew letters QBL, which means to receive." Spellings such as Cabbalah, Caballah, Kabalah, etc, all remove the Q and replace it with a C or a K, which is easier for gringos to pronounce. If said gringos spell QBL with a C or a K, then they are not properly grounded in their science.

The valuable part of the  etymological root of Cabala 'to receive' is in its meaning in opposition to natural religion.  Quibbling over a desired orthodox spelling like an aged old aeon dogmatist so deeply grounded in method that aim is lost to the walls of the grave misses that target.

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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Shiva
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27/12/2019 3:12 am  
Posted by: @mal

Quibbling over a desired orthodox spelling like an aged ...

I am aged, and thus entitled to Quibble (QBL), just like the Hebrew Qabalists (QBLists) spend days attacking and defending the "proper shape" of any given letter. It's a difference between Q (100) and K (20) or a C, pronounced like a K (20). The difference between 100 and 20 is 80, which will blow anyone's mind.

😀


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mal
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27/12/2019 3:43 am  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @mal

Quibbling over a desired orthodox spelling like an aged ...

I am aged, and thus entitled to Quibble (QBL), just like the Hebrew Qabalists (QBLists) spend days attacking and defending the "proper shape" of any given letter. It's a difference between Q (100) and K (20) or a C, pronounced like a K (20). The difference between 100 and 20 is 80, which will blow anyone's mind.

😀

Those number values and symbols attributed to specific Hebrew letters is dependent on legitimacy received from the authority of God and immutable according to orthodoxy. 

English letter value and symbol received from the Book of the Law may have a similar style of authority but not be the same. The English letter values could be suitable to variances unique to the language and provide correspondences only available to English Cabala.

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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dom
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27/12/2019 10:23 am  

Well Crowley advised occultist to invoke forces according to aspects where they were lacking in themselves.  Balance informs the QBL as you know.   If you disagree that this may discourage fascistic tendencies in occultists I guess you accept that there are inadequate occultists who just don't get it.   


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Michael Staley
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27/12/2019 2:13 pm  
Posted by: @dom

there are inadequate occultists who just don't get it.   

Don't get what?


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mal
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27/12/2019 2:59 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Well Crowley advised occultist to invoke forces according to aspects where they were lacking in themselves.  Balance informs the QBL as you know.   If you disagree that this may discourage fascistic tendencies in occultists I guess you accept that there are inadequate occultists who just don't get it. 

Transformative events could be avoided or misunderstood. Willful ignorance. Stagnation.

The changes in perspective that go along with an increase to the horizons of the mind are apparent to observers. Just as apparent are the ruts, limitations and attachments retained that could be a sign of stagnation. Those with fascist tendencies appear to display this stagnation plainly in their unrelenting resentments towards those they consider unworthy based upon some bigotry.

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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dom
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27/12/2019 11:32 pm  

@christibranny

 

Dom,

What is your obsession with fascism per say?

Oh you mean the phenomenon that leads to mass strife, warfare, disruption, chaos and all things Hellish?  Yeah you're right it's trivial isn't it?  

The present President of the USA himself was put there by fringe fascist groups for chrissakes and you think it's a "strange obsession"?     You have heard of Breitbart News, right?  Brazil, India, Hungary and Russia have gone backwards into race-baiting nationalism and the U.K. has catastrophically severed ties with Europe solely due to one little fascist stirring up race-hatred with his fringe right wing UKIP party but yeah that's all just business as normal?!   We just went through the second worst constitutional crisis in British history for it unless you didn't notice and the KKK in recent times organized a public march which The President had the audacity to  sympathise with!    Yeah nothing to get excited about there I guess.      

The recent rise of the dark forces of nationalism all over the globe is sort of …..relevant...wouldn't you say?   

I do think that the control over corporations and capital by a fascist government is good, to a degree. It makes sure they do not get too big and over reaching. But 'they' still allowed businesses to flourish.

 I'd say that Fascist governments don't control capital at all and you've been suckered by a Big Lie right there.  They keep unions in line so big business remains unthreatened.    This notion that the heroic socialistic fascists take on the evil industrialists 'for the people' is imo a massive swindle.    Take for example Trump's tax bill which was secretly rushed through and which produced the  lowest corporation taxes in history but 'the people' hardly benefitted.

  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/30/trump-tax-cut-law-investigation-worker-benefits

the fears of ordinary workers in regard to those promised higher wages were realized....

The bulk of the $150bn the tax cut put into the hands of corporations in 2018 went into shareholder dividends and stock buy-backs, both of which line the pockets of the 10% of Americans who own 84% of the stocks.


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Shiva
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28/12/2019 1:08 am  
Posted by: @dom

Oh you mean the phenomenon that leads to mass strife, warfare, disruption, chaos and all things Hellish?  Yeah you're right it's trivial isn't it?  

Chris didn't say it was "trivial." He asked why you are fascist-inated with the subject.

 


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dom
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28/12/2019 8:54 am  

@shiva

Awareness is not obsession.


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dom
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28/12/2019 11:35 am  

Liber Oz anyone?

How about that Luther King guy?    Guy was 'obsessed' with civil rights.  Should've took some rest from it. 


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ignant666
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28/12/2019 2:38 pm  

I would just like to cite PROOF of my PSYCHIC POWERS here.

Last summer, back in July, in the late lamented "Politics Thread", i predicted the new antifa david:

The light is starting to dawn, isn't it, david?- next thing you know, you'll be reading Capital, Vol. I and figuring some stuff out. [...]

Google the phrase "a class of and for itself", and do a bit of reading, and the work needed to understand the reading, and you will probably be a full-on Communist within three weeks, given how you do tend to throw yourself into these things.

Admittedly it took a bit longer than i predicted but that is mere quibbling.

Note that i am not mocking your new politics, or political evolution, david, since i largely agree with what you've said lately, and better late a commie than never a commie. I am merely taking credit for predicting your abrupt and total political about-face.


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mal
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28/12/2019 4:31 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Liber Oz anyone?

How about that Luther King guy?    Guy was 'obsessed' with civil rights.  Should've took some rest from it. 

Fascism supporters would be inclined to discourage political opposition in whatever manner they know.  And be prompt to defend other fascism supporters as well.

Posted by: @christibrany

a fascist government is good

Take christibrany's triggering as a sign of progress.

 

If True Will is a thing that represents one's singular course through life communism could work. However, True Will might not operate in that sense and the lack of mobility in communism a fundamental flaw.

We hold the Earth fro Hell away. 🌹


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Shiva
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28/12/2019 4:39 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Awareness is not obsession.

No, it isn't. You are correct in your anti-definition.

I believe the "obsession" part has to do with your rather frequent use of the word "fascist" in your posts, and you even start threads with that word in the title. Chris just wants to know WHY you are thus obsessed. I'm simply trying to steer you into answering the question, rather than defining what obession isn't.

Posted by: @ignant666

Admittedly it took a bit longer than i predicted but that is mere quibbling.

Quibbling is now being enacted in the QBLing thread ... over in one of those forums where the secret is being decoded.

 


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djedi
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28/12/2019 5:11 pm  

Satanism Drama Is Tearing Apart the Murderous Neo-Nazi Group Atomwaffen - a highly biased and largely ill-informed article on the phenomenon I mentioned.

U.S. Soldiers Uncovered in Atomwaffen Division Satanic Nazi Death Cult Terror Group - a better article.

A few quotes on the so-called Order of Nine Angles:

"An article in The Times newspaper stated that 'a Times reporter went undercover on the gaming platform Discord to infiltrate an invitation-only Satanist neo-Nazi group called The Order of Nine Angles (O9A). The group openly encouraged acts of terrorism and celebrated what was described as esoteric Hitlerism.'"

"According to a report by the civil rights group the Southern Poverty Law Center the ONA 'holds an important position in the niche, international nexus of occult, esoteric, and/or satanic neo-Nazi groups.'"

"In February 2019 several newspapers reported that the O9A was linked to a number of high-profile figures from the far right, and to neo-Nazi groups such as Atomwaffen Division, National Action (UK) and Sonnenkrieg Division, the UK-branch of Atomwaffen Division."

-

It's important to me that we understand that the ONA's founder, neo-Nazi occultist David Myatt, is a white convert to Islam. Besides Mohammed himself, there is only one other white muslim I know of: Rudolf von Sebottendorf, founder of the Thule society, which later evolved into the DAP and then the NSDAP.

Another well-known magician has a salient quote on this sort of thing, "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

So, are we to understand Nazism as being a result of white conversion (or reversion, as muslims say) to Islam? Is antifascism simply the last socially acceptable expression of Islamophobia?


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ignant666
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28/12/2019 5:24 pm  

Anyone who takes any particular incarnation of David Myatt as "real" is a sucker. Review the ONA literature re "insight roles" and get back to me if you do not then agree with me.

That said, Myatt, according to him,renounced Islam years ago (and, according to him, renounced Nazism/fascism before that), and has been, according to him, some sort of twee pantheist Wind In The Willows English-countryside-worshiping nature-mystic with heavy emphasis on ancient Greek scholarship as illuminating the mysteries of Albion's green dells.

So i think we can answer djedi's hopefully facetious question with a resounding no. Thanx for the ONA articles.

My opinion (at the risk of being the sucker mentioned above) , he's a Nazi, through and through, who developed a better rap. I would be hard-pressed to view killing him as a very bad thing- perhaps a small fine, similar to that for spitting on the sidewalk, might suffice?


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christibrany
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29/12/2019 12:25 am  

@dom

There is nothing wrong with nationalism.  It is what keeps people together to forge a community.

 

If you want to sympathise with the UN then good luck. All they do is steal money and rape women under the guise of protection.

 

'Catastrophically ended ties with Europe' because the EU is and always has been a failure.

 

It is based on taxes without representation.

 

Do you want to talk to the local governments of each member nation of why they hate it? 

 

My wife is Portuguese and they can't even farm anymore for all the taxes and regulations.

When I grew up in the Netherlands we couldn't even shop properly because everything went up in price 200% because of the 'switch ' and taxes.

 

Where do they all go?

To the bureaucrats. 

 

And now you can't even drive without paying all these taxes. 

 

If that's the kind of life you like, 'good' for you.  I bet you must worship Dita von sorry Greta Thunberg. I was gonna say Dita von Teese shes much better. 

 

Regarding so called occultism in the Army I was part of it. 

I am proud to say that my last Company had a lot of fun with me because I was showing them how the 'walls could shake' and we could move reality with our minds and Will.  Even the Captain was a bit scared.  

 

Have a nice night

 

 

 


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dom
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29/12/2019 12:36 am  

@christibranny

I am proud to say that my last Company had a lot of fun with me because I was showing them how the 'walls could shake' and we could move reality with our minds and Will. Even the Captain was a bit scared.

Have a nice night

 

This is about to make the 'dafuck' list but please elaborate and change my view.    

 

You grew up in Planet Holland eh?    


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christibrany
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29/12/2019 12:42 am  

Can you please elaborate? 

 

What is 'planet holland' 

I was doing my nightly LBRP and after taps my mates were there watching bc they were curious and they saw some weird shit happen. I guess it was my vibrations from my voice and movements.  They said quote the walls were breathing. 


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the_real_simon_iff
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29/12/2019 12:50 pm  

Wow!

I am sure you do the best LBRP. In fact, nobody does the LBRP better.

Good night...


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christibrany
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29/12/2019 9:49 pm  

Meine liebe Freund

Since you are playing the game I shall tell you all the best people, all my closest friends in high circles have told me that yes! My LBRP is the best ...in fact the Only ritual around.

I have a natural control of my qi and all the best people, (especially women) have viewed my rituals with a bit of appreciation. 

If you knew the right people they would inform you as to the virillity of my moves.

 

I love Jesus 😉

 

 

 

 


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the_real_simon_iff
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30/12/2019 1:59 am  

Chris, 93!

I am not playing games, I am totally serious. I cannot conceive how someone allegedly devoted to the method of science has been fooled into becoming a tool of misinformation. Don't get me wrong, if you like Trump, that's your thing. And while I hate saying this on an Aleister Crowley devoted forum, it is at least quite on-topic with the OP about fascism (though totally off-topic to the forum in itself and I hope the thread will be closed soon). I can't and won't discuss anything with anyone who claims:

"There is nothing wrong with nationalism. It is what keeps people together to forge a community."

- this is a contradiction, nationalism keeps people apart - unless you mean "my people" or you don't mean "people".

"If you want to sympathise with the UN then good luck. All they do is steal money and rape women under the guise of protection."

- this is all they do? Nothing more? This is all that comes to mind? Really?

"the EU is and always has been a failure."

- if you say so. Others say it is a big success story that needs repair here and there.

It is based on taxes without representation.

- you sure know there are no EU taxes, do you?

Do you want to talk to the local governments of each member nation of why they hate it?

- did you?

My wife is Portuguese and they can't even farm anymore for all the taxes and regulations.

- so Portugal doesn't farm anymore?

"When I grew up in the Netherlands we couldn't even shop properly because everything went up in price 200% because of the 'switch ' and taxes."

- I agree that corporations used the switch to the Euro to just make things more expensive. EU taxes didn't exist even then.

"Where do they all go? To the bureaucrats."

- the taxes go to the bureaucrats? There are no EU taxes but of course taxes are handled by bureaucracy, everywhere on the planet.

"And now you can't even drive without paying all these taxes."

- Which everybody does since 1906. At least in Germany. And they drive a lot.

"I bet you must worship Dita von sorry Greta Thunberg."

- finally, I thought she would never come up. How can anyone be so angry about her? Angry? Scared? You probably don't believe in the climate crisis too.

"I am proud to say that my last Company had a lot of fun with me because I was showing them how the 'walls could shake' and we could move reality with our minds and Will. Even the Captain was a bit scared."

- this coming from someone who has just shown his ability to grasp and articulate facts doesn't convince me much. How about written statements from your comrades and the scared captain?

"Have a nice night"

Do not.

Yes, Chris, just because the times have changed and facts don't much matter anymore, I did not, and I see really no sense in any further conversation. Just read the OP again and you might find something. Anti-intellectualism is the keyword. Everything you claimed, all the deficiencies and critiques might have some justice to it. But you are turning it all into blind propaganda. I am tired of giving anyone the benefit of doubt what he really meant. You wrote it. It's there. Just don't adress me again. Make America great again if you will, boast about your LBRPs, build your community. I don't care (I do, but that's a different story)

And Paul, sorry for that, this just feels like Facebook, but it is hard to remain silent. Maybe close these threads as early as you can. It feels like click-bait.

Love=Law

Lutz

 


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
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31/12/2019 1:58 am  
Posted by: @dom

Step 2   SOW DIVISION AMONGST THE POPULACE

Are ye happy now, dom, satisfied with your work to be able to rest contentedly in your bed?  This is the sort of thing that rather tends to happen when politics are brought in "for discussion" in an outwardly "Thelemic" (nb scare marks} forum ...

"Truth will out" !? (?!),

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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31/12/2019 2:15 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

This is the sort of thing that rather tends to happen when politics are brought in "for discussion" in an outwardly "Thelemic" (nb scare marks} forum ..

I told you so.


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dom
 dom
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31/12/2019 11:12 am  

@Jamiebarter

There's only one poster here who has a problem with the analysis of the OP unless you're taking his side.  I put it in Stuff section however seeing as AC highlights it in his foreword in AL maybe it should've been in the Thelema section.  Are you trying to say it's an irrelevant subject matter here?  

Sure,  political threads are generally a nowhere war of personal opinions however Fascism is about breakdown of democracy itself which does directly impact on people's ability to 'do their Will'....

 


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2218
31/12/2019 12:24 pm  

@XON

 

I never said fascism was good I said all ideologies can have good parts. Stop cherry picking my words.

 

@the_real_simon_off

I never said I like Trump. in the other thread I said I think he's done some good things. There's a difference. I find him petulant and thin skinned.

To then turn off discussion is childish of you.

@shiva

My parents always said don't talk politics. Back to the Fourth power of the Sphinx for me.

 

I am astounded at the lack of flexibility and grey area thinking around here lately. We are supposed to be ascending duality not choosing sidea.

 

Anyway here's wishing a happy and healthy vulgar new year to ALL lashtalians.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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31/12/2019 1:36 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

I told you so.

Stiff competition here re the: "Cheshire  Cat Who Got the Cream" Award for the Year for ignant with his demonstration of PSYCHIC POWERS (see above):

Posted by: @ignant666

I am merely taking credit for predicting [dom's] abrupt and total political about-face.

(Entries for the old year still open but closing soon!) 🙂

Posted by: @dom

Sure, political threads are generally a nowhere war of personal opinions

Lucky we're not discussing Religion here (!)

Posted by: @christibrany

I never said fascism was good I said all ideologies can have good parts

This is perfectly true, Chris.  You said "control over corporations and capital by a fascist government is good, to a degree", and I agree with the sentiment: the Nazis weren't all bad; they had nice taste in snazzy uniforms and made the trains run on time (- or was that Mussolini?)

N Joy

 

 

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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31/12/2019 2:47 pm  

Surely it would be ungenerous to hold a grudge against Fascists over a little thing like putting occultists (and of course many others) in concentration camps, and after all Germer did achieve K & C of the HGA while in a camp. Because they did have Hugo Boss do their tailoring after all, and also had really strong graphic design and branding.

Ummm, no. Fascism is the most evil ideology humans have yet come up with, and is resurging worldwide. It is urgent that people in every country fight their local version of neo-fascism, and recognize that it is no coincidence that every country suddenly has a "nationalist" "populist" "conservative" "strong man".

Even those devoid of concern for others ought to worry- when they start locking up the weirdos, you will be among the first to get put in a camp, simply because you are interested in this kind of thing, or you wouldn't be reading this. The Augustus Sols, and James Wassermans, of this world would do well to read up on the Night Of The Long Knives- that way they won't be surprised when they get MAGA'ed away in the night.

But i think we are beating the proverbial dead horse here, since there has been so much similar political discussion here, which has gone in the same circles this one is starting to. I think Thelema leads logically to some sort of anarchist or libertarian politics as maximizing potential for Will-doing; Crowley sometimes agreed. Others reach different conclusions. Everyone can find ample support in AC's protean and wildly contradictory writings on politics.

Thus (while i make no promises), i am trying to avoid getting drawn into political discussion here, and would welcome less of it.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3883
31/12/2019 4:33 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Thus (while i make no promises), i am trying to avoid getting drawn into political discussion here, and would welcome less of it.

Hear hear! I think that most of us would. Policical discussions are of consuming interest, and can be had anywhere, but this website is something special as somewhere to discuss the work of Crowley, of his colleagues, and of his and their legacy.


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djedi
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31/12/2019 4:49 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Fascism is the most evil ideology humans have yet come up with,

Would you then say that it's the... wickedest ideology man has ever created?

Karl Germer, Franz Bardon,  Friedrich Marby; these are occultists who were thrown in the death camps.

Adam Glauer, Dietrich Eckhart, Erik Jan Hanussen, Ernst Schertel, Karl Wiligut, Soror I.W.E., Rudolf Hess, Heinrich Himmler, Adolf Hitler; these are occultists who built the death camps, and threw in the fellows on the previous list. (Can you spot the Thelemite?)

I won't numb your ear with the list of occultists who never took a side, and were therefore unmolested (unless you count shutting down the astrology racket as some great crime).

Shall I mention another text the caliphate struggles so desperately to suppress, Aleister Crowley's annotated copy of Hitler Speaks? I wonder why they don't want anyone reading it, unless the wickedest man in the world had something nice to say about the most evil ideology in the world?

I wonder just how well Crowley really cared for Karl Germer. I already know how well some people cared for his wife, Sasha.

I hate to contradict anyone so thoroughly, but fear mongering and veiled threats -- which are especially egregious when disguised as appeals from a voice of reason -- have an effect on me opposite their intent. I also would like to move away from political discussion, but I will do so without preemptively wishing death on anyone who disagrees with my opinions.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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31/12/2019 5:32 pm  

@djedi : The death of any Nazi or Fascist is a joyful occasion. Is that "unveiled" enough for you? We had a World War about this issue; the good guys won.

All Nazis and Fascists ought to be, at minimum, ridiculed, and scorned, and should be treated with all the politeness and respect with which they treat others.

Those who make violence and terror central to their politics hardly have the right to get upset when those they seek to destroy take them seriously, and "get their revenge in first" as they say.

I don't think political discussion is very useful here, but thinking that does not mean any leeway for Nazi/Fascist bullshit.

 

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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31/12/2019 5:44 pm  

Also maybe your list of "Nazi occultists" would be more convincing if you left off people executed by the Nazis? And maybe also left off crazy people?

Oh wait- it's a list of Nazis. i suppose one must work with the material one is given.

Every totalitarian is sure it will be those other people that get purged. You too may want to study up on the Night Of The Long Knives.


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dom
 dom
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31/12/2019 5:44 pm  

@djedi

 

Adam Glauer, Dietrich Eckhart, Erik Jan Hanussen, Ernst Schertel, Karl Wiligut, Soror I.W.E., Rudolf Hess, Heinrich Himmler, Adolf Hitler; these are occultists who built the death camps, and threw in the fellows on the previous list.

 

Oh you mean the losers...(literally)?  Their Grand Wizard had to cap himself in the head for fear of entering into Soviet captivity.    

 

  Shall I mention another text the caliphate struggles so desperately to suppress, Aleister Crowley's annotated copy of Hitler Speaks? I wonder why they don't want anyone reading it, unless the wickedest man in the world had something nice to say about the most evil ideology in the world?

 

Chapter 5  The Next Step  from AL introduction;

Fasscism is like Communism and is dishonest into the bargain.  The dictators suppress all art,literature...news  (fake news) etc etc  that does not meet their requirements ; but the world only moves by the light of genius .  The herd will be destroyed in mass.  

The establishment of the Law of  Thelema is the only way to preserve individual liberty and to assure the future of the race. 

 

 


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dom
 dom
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31/12/2019 6:23 pm  

Apologies for double post but... Michael Stayley said

Hear hear! I think that most of us would. Policical discussions are of consuming interest, and can be had anywhere, but this website is something special as somewhere to discuss the work of Crowley, of his colleagues, and of his and their legacy.

 

Is it possible to discuss Crowley's central preoccupations  (and that of his colleagues) without discussing definitions of Thelema?  If no then is it possible to discuss Thelema without defining and discussing 'liberty' and/or 'fraternity' and/or 'equality'?  Finally is it possible to define/discuss  'liberty' and/or 'fraternity' and/or 'equality' without referring to how any given  country/people might be governed (i.e. 'politics')?

 

Ignant said

The death of any Nazi or Fascist is a joyful occasion. Is that "unveiled" enough for you? We had a World War about this issue; the good guys won.
All Nazis and Fascists ought to be, at minimum, ridiculed, and scorned, and should be treated with all the politeness and respect with which they treat others.

 

Well yeah Western civilization was salvaged and it's victorious leaders had no qualms about executing the gang of idiots we are discussing.      


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posts: 1741
31/12/2019 6:57 pm  

93, dom!

Discussing definitions of Thelema or Liberty or how/why people want to be governed, is always possible and easy. It is NOT possible to discuss facts. Facts like "All the UN does is rape women and steal money" or "Europeans pay EU taxes". Those claims are in no way a question of definiton or opinion. It's either true or not. Sometimes it is very hard to find all the variables that constitute a fact. Sometimes it's quite easy (like in the examples I mentioned). As you stated in your OP, attacking facts is a constant to be observed these days, and it's simply a discussion-stopper for me. Nobody would "discuss" with a Flat-Earther for more than a minute. So Thelema and Politics will always be a good field for discussion, since there are either little or contradicting "facts" known.

Love=law

Lutz


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